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In this bonus crossover episode, Tom is joined by co-author Natalie Vardabasso to discuss their upcoming book "Rehumanizing Assessment through Story." This led to further conversations about the power of stories:
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In the Mindset Minute (1:58), Tom shares the mantra "Why not me?" as one way of trying to combat imposter syndrome. Then (5:50) Tom is joined by Math expert and podcast host Jon Orr to discuss the state of the Math Wars and all things mathematics. Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:35), Tom discusses why it's important for us to distinguish between the non-negotiables of change and implementation errors.
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In the Mindset Minute (1:53), Tom shares his thoughts on why we must allow our negative thoughts to flow through us. Then (6:18) Tom is joined by author, speaker, and trapping Mathematician Alex Kajitani to discuss his latest book, "Owning It: Proven Strategies to Ace and Embrace Teaching. Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:20), Tom discusses a common assessment dilemma.
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Mindset Minute (2:11) focuses on why we need to "act toward" what we want. Then (5:35), Tom describes how his view of school discipline evolved to one where "discipline" is something we help students become, not what we do to them. Finally, in Assessment Corner (17:47), Tom suggests that when we assess for the summative purpose, we need to judge holistically.
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Mindset Minute (2:23) focuses on the concept of "act as if" where we create present emotions that match how we want to feel when what we want manifests. Then (7:24), Tom asserts that building relationships with students comes through their learning, not before. Finally, in Assessment Corner (17:44), Tom answers a listener's question about converting proficiency levels to percentage-based grades.
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In the Mindset Minute (2:13), Tom shares a mantra that he's used to create a mindset that everything always works out for him. Then (6:06) Tom is joined by author, speaker, and friend Cale Birk to talk about why leaders need to plan for impact, not just change. Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:01), Tom reminds listeners about the importance of knowing your assessment purpose in advance of any assessment.
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In the Mindset Minute (2:36) Tom highlights the book, “The Biology of Belief” by Dr. Bruce Lipton. It is one of the most influential books in terms of Tom’s mindset and outlook on life. Then (8:36) Tom is joined by singer, songwriter, and former student Nikita Afonso to talk about her growing music career. Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:51), Tom asserts that it’s time to ask those who resist assessment and grading reform to substantiate their resistance with research, not just their opinion.
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In the Mindset Minute (2:22) - a new segment - Tom asserts that the power of positive thinking is as much about the present as it is about the future. Then (6:35) Tom is joined by educator and author Julie Schmidt Hasson to discuss her latest offering, "Pause, Ponder, and Persist in the Classroom: How Teachers Turn Challenges into Opportunities for Impact." Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:48), Tom makes the case for why now - the summer - is the perfect time to build your assessment literacy.
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In this bonus episode, Tom offers his perspective on the New Reporting Order in British Columbia set to be implemented in the 2023-24 school year. In PART 1, Tom highlights the backstory and development (and poor messaging) surrounding the implementation of the new curriculum when it was first developed several years ago. In PART 2 (15:15), Tom takes aim at the obsession some have with percentage-based grading and why it is an unreliable, inaccurate, and incomplete way of assessing. In PART 3 (35:04), Tom offers his critiques of the new reporting order, specifically at the assertion made in documents to families from the BC Ministry of Education that "Proficient is the goal for your child" and that "Extending is not the goal for all students in every area of learning."
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In Don’t @ Me (2:31), Tom opens with an assertion that it's time for a collective societal reset on what it means to fail. Then (12:24) Tom is once again joined by Dylan Wiliam for part 2 of a conversation about classroom assessment. Finally, in Assessment Corner (59:04), Tom provides some commentary on the Fake Grading War created by by Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction, Tom Horne.
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From the publisher's feed
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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