Blame isn’t helpful. Illustrator and author Charlie Mackesy thinks learning to forgive yourself and others will lead to more peace.

In this chat, Fearne and Charlie talk from personal experience about just how physical shame can feel. Charlie explains how fear of abandonment keeps us silent about our insecurities, but that in reality the moment we start talking about our shame is the moment real human connection is made.

Charlie and Fearne also chat about how polarised the world is becoming, and offer advice for how to cope with fear, as well as why it’s important to disagree respectfully.

Plus, why did Charlie feel he needed to hide away in the toilets at the Oscars?

Charlie’s latest book, Always Remember: The Boy, The Mole, The Fox, The Horse, and The Storm, is out now.

CONTENT WARNING: This episode contains some conversation about suicidal ideation.

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