Paul Mellor joins Josh on the show — founder of underdog-focused creative agency Mellor&Smith, executive producer and 4x BAFTA nominee on Boiling Point, and currently working on a fresh documentary about ultrarunning legend Lazarus Lake.

We dive into why trail runners should care about the bigger outdoor industry, Nike's surprisingly humble return to trail running, what makes certain brands unforgettable (and why others fade into the background), and the power of standing out as an underdog.

Presented by Kiprun.

Paul Mellor is the founder of Mellor&Smith, a creative advertising agency that specializes in helping underdog outdoor brands — those not yet dominating their category — get noticed by the world. His clients include some of the biggest names in outdoor and adventure who are still fighting for pole position.

Beyond advertising, Paul is an executive producer and four-time BAFTA nominee for the acclaimed film Boiling Point (yes, that intense one-take kitchen drama). He's currently deep into producing a new documentary on Lazarus Lake (Laz), the mythical creator of the Barkley Marathons and Big's Backyard Ultra — offering a perspective on Laz you've never seen before.

1. Why trail runners and the trail community should pay attention to the wider outdoor industry
2. Nike's re-entry into the trail running space — why acg feels refreshingly humble
3. The ingredients that make certain brands memorable in a crowded market
4. Why some brands struggle to stand out and may never truly resonate
5. The mindset and creative approaches that help underdogs punch above their weight and get noticed
6. A sneak peek into Paul's work on the upcoming Lazarus Lake documentary and what makes this take unique.

Connect with Paul Mellor on LinkedIn

1. Nike ACG
2. Rapha
3. Satisfy
4. The Speed Project
5. Kantar Research — Insights on brand investment effectiveness
6. Paul Dyson & 2009 + 2020 Media Study — On brand allocation and effective marketing levers
7. Warren Buffett on Allocation — Strategic resource distribution insights

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Tommy Lewis and Josh Rosenthal talk about how they're a bit tired with the business of running (content and everything else) but they share a continued commitment and fascination with running itself.

Tommy is the final guest in our series celebrating those who bring light to the world through running. Others have included Laz Lake, Nils Arend, Scott Jurek, and Dean Karnazes.

He's a content creator and influencer buildling communities around running sustainabily with a sense of purpose and joy.

Presented by Kiprun.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Lazarus Lake (Gary Cantrell) is the race director and creator of the Barley Marathons and Big's Backyard Ultra among others.

In this interview, Josh pays homage to him with three artifacts designed to spur on conversation and attempt to explain more of who Laz Lake actually is.

1. Cigarettes | Laz smokes Camel Yellows. We talk about his origins of smoking.

2. LIke the Wind magazine | Mechanical watch companies navigated the quartz crisis, Like the Wind navigated the digital crises. Laz, like LtW and Blancpain, they never got sucked in to the crises and stayed convicted and committed to their way of doing things - untouched by modernization.

3. Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway | Laz is like Santiago from the old man and the sea persistently and consistently pursuing value and validation in the struggle. Insodoing, he gives this gift to ultra runners by designing races that tease this out of every participant.

Presented by Kiprun.

Watch Part 1 and Part 2 of the Laz Lake Interviews.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Gary Cantrell (aka Lazarus Lake) is the last rebel of ultra running.

Watch our conversation on Youtube.

We love the professionalization of trail running but we don't want it all to go that way. In order for that to be interesing, the world of underground ultra running has to live strong.

In this episode, Josh works through the stories of Popcorn Sutton and Andy Payne with Laz.

Popcorn Sutton was a moonshiner untouched by modernization. He stood in stark contrast to the Jack Daniels and Jim Beams of the world. They work to maximize revenue and total annual output where Popcorn kept doing things the same way.

Andy Payne won the Bunion Derby in 1928 - a race across America with 275 participants. He also happened to be Laz's Dad's neighbor.

Laz is a blend of the two figures with a rock and roll-type status preserving a type of heart of running all its own.

Enjoy.

Presented by Kiprun.

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Listen to Scene One (the Races of Laz Lake) on Spotify or Apple or watch on YouTube.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Josh flew to Bell Buckle, TN to interview Lazarus Lake (aka Gary Cantrell) at his home and backdrop to Big's (and Little's) Backyard Ultra.

There are three scenes to The Lazarus Lakes Interviews and in this first one they discuss the races. You all know about Barkleys Marathons and the Backyard Ultras but what about the other races like the Vol State 500k or the now deceased Idiot's Run? Or ARFTA (a race for the ages)?

To anyone who knows of Laz Lake, you will not be surprised to learn that this interview was a wild ride in and of itself. He rarely speaks concretely, almost everything is metaphorical. And once you accept that you understand that he's rarely simply talking about a tree or a cave or Jesse James' gold.

Josh went into this interview planning to uncover a PT Barnum type or an artist standing at a canvas. Instead, he found a scientist in a laboratory whose lab rats are actually ultrarunners.

He's tinkering with variables looking to uncover elements of the human spirt on one hand and on the other, he's at face value.

He's a country boy born in Texas and raised in Oklahoma and Tennessee.

Presented by Kiprun.

With support from Like the Wind Magazine + Hyperlyte Liquid Performance.

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Listen to Scene Two with Laz (the Last Rebel of Ultra Running) on Spotify or Apple or watch on YouTube

For behind the scenes and uncut content from this interview, go to our Patreon.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Dean Karnazes brings light to the world through running. Dean's books and myth motivated many to start running for the first time or pushed them to run further.

He's been an amassador for running the world over and on a scale no other runner has enjoyed. In this episode we dive into his appearances on Conan O'briend, David Letterman, and the ESPYs.

When he started running it was much simpler. It was really just a pair of shoes and a place to run. But that's not necessarily the good old days. Today there are more people running than ever. And because foundational he believes that running is a gift to all who do it, the growth in every aspect of the industry is net good.

Presented by Kiprun.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Scott Jurek represents a generation of ultratrail runners who either had day jobs or were true dirtbag trail runners. Scott and Josh Rosenthal dive into the 'good old days' of trail running when a lot of the gear was DIY like punk rock or skateboarding.

Presented by Kiprun.

• Scott Jurek and Y2K
• DIY: Ultrarunners, Punk Rock, and Skateboarding
• Runners have it easier with gear advances
• Athlete mentality is shifting in a sterile direction
• Mental resilience in ultra running
• The lasting bonds of competing in ultratrail
• The commercialization of Ultratrail Running
• Despite changes, the essence of running remains accessible to everyone.

This conversation explores the evolution of ultra running, reflecting on personal experiences from the Y2K era to the present day. Josh Rosenthal and Scott Jurek discuss the changes in gear, the competitive landscape, and the importance of community within the sport. They emphasize the mental resilience required for ultra running and celebrate the friendships formed through shared experiences. Despite the commercialization of the sport, the essence of running remains accessible and fulfilling for all.

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• Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Nils Arend started The Speed Project and it continues to bring light into the world through running.

[Presented by Kiprun]

Josh and Nils sit on a Rugby Field in Albi, FR at midnight to talk about the origin story of TSP and what it means to so many.

Yes, TSP is an ultrarunning event but its not an 'ultrarunning' event. Its not in the ultrarunning zeitgeist, its a zeitgeist all its own.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Monday, 22 Dec 2025 marks a new beginning for Borderlands' podcast presented by Kiprun.

We've had a helluva a run and now I'm doubling down on the things I believe will take us to the next level. Tune in to find out.

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4. Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026

Allie Gibbons ran The Speed Project in the Atacama Desert while 22 weeks pregnant. Prior to that, she ran Bigfoot 200 in the Washington wilderness after just learning that she was pregnant.

Presented by Kiprun.

In this conversation, they discuss the challenges of ultra running, the unique experience of being pregnant during such a demanding race, and the mental and physical preparations required.

Allie shares insights on health monitoring, the emotional waves experienced during long races, and the camaraderie found within the ultra running community. The conversation also touches on the transition from road to trail running and the competitive spirit that drives athletes in these extreme conditions.

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• Salt Lake Foothills Trail Races | 30 May 2026