In Episode 451 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with author and long-time China analyst Dinny McMahon about the Chinese leadership's efforts to redesign China's economic model in the face of structural headwinds to growth, mounting trade barriers, and growing concerns in Western capitals about Chinese economic and military domination.

The first hour is spent exploring why McMahon believes that China is at a transformational moment. He details the kind of economy that Beijing intends to build by 2035 and the internal debate over whether China should rebalance toward household consumption through welfare and redistribution or double down on its investment-driven growth model as the primary mechanism for raising household living standards.

The second hour is devoted to understanding China's evolving industrial strategy that Dinny describes as a potential "China Shock 2.0" driven by legacy industry upgrading, innovation at the technological frontier in sectors like batteries and electric vehicles, flying cars, and humanoid robots, and import substitution in areas like machine tools and semiconductors all while pushing intermediate manufacturing offshore to circumvent Western trade barriers.

McMahon lays out his best and worst case scenarios, as well as what China's economy is most likely to look like by the middle of the next decade; he and Demetri examine the risks of further deindustrialization and strategic dependency by the United States and Europe on Chinese manufacturing; and discuss how all of this collides with global climate goals, the energy transition, and a world in which China's state-driven capitalist model is increasingly setting the pace for innovation, growth, and material abundance.

Subscribe to our premium content—including our premium feed, episode transcripts, and Intelligence Reports—by visiting HiddenForces.io/subscribe.

If you'd like to join the conversation and become a member of the Hidden Forces Genius community—with benefits like Q&A calls with guests, exclusive research and analysis, in-person events, and dinners—you can also sign up on our subscriber page at HiddenForces.io/subscribe.

If you enjoyed today's episode of Hidden Forces, please support the show by:

• Subscribing on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Stitcher, SoundCloud, CastBox, or via our RSS Feed

• Writing us a review on Apple Podcasts & Spotify

• Joining our mailing list at https://hiddenforces.io/newsletter/

Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou

Subscribe and support the podcast at https://hiddenforces.io. Join the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @hiddenforcespod Follow Demetri on Twitter at @Kofinas

Episode Recorded on 11/24/2025