ChinaTalk

By Jordan SchneiderNews Technology Government Politics

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ChinaTalk episodes

January 30, 2025DeepSeek: What It Means and What Happens Next
Kevin Xu of Interconnected and Interconnected Capital and I knock it out of the park with a roundup episode exploring:
What DeepSeek does and doesn't illustrate about Chinese innovation
Tensions between open-source cosmopolitanism and nationalism built into DeepSeek and the broader Chinese tech community
DeepSeek's organizational and talent management strategy, parallels to OpenAI, and what the fame will mean for the firm and Chinese AI policy
What DeepSeek should and may mean for the future of export controls and broader US innovation policy

The JS Tan article referenced: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseeks-secret-to-success
Dario's first article on our happy AI future: https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace
Dario's second article on why America needs to export control China: https://darioamodei.com/on-deepseek-and-export-controls
Outtro Music: Dizkar, 愛縂時刻盛開 https://open.spotify.com/track/1rXneAS9Djts7fwRGHUeG5?si=b2b29714802948de

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1 hr 12 min
January 24, 2025 EMERGENCY POD: DeepSeek R1 and the Future of AI Competition with Miles Brundage
Miles Brundage, a six year OpenAI vet who ran its Policy Research and AGI readiness arms, discuss why all your deepseek takes are so terrible.
Outtro music: The Departure, Max Richter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R5Ppb9wqjY

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33 min
January 24, 2025Patents and National Power
What makes some countries more innovative than others? What role do intellectual property rights play in building national power? Does Elon Musk really give competitors free access to Tesla’s patents?
To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed Adam Mossoff, professor at the Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason University.
We discuss…
How the patent system has shaped American society since independence,
The extent to which patent policy caused the great divergence between the West and China,
Whether Elon’s misunderstanding of patents will become the dominant attitude of the second Trump administration,
The Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) and other threats to the U.S. innovation ecosystem,
How to reconcile China’s IP theft with its robust domestic patent law,
What the U.S. can do to facilitate innovation while competing with China in emerging technology.

Outro Songs from the American Revolution:
Liberty Song (Arthur F. Schrader rendition), and the Tory retort, Come Shake Your Dull Noodles (Arthur F. Schrader rendition)
Thanks to the Innovation Alliance for sponsoring this episode. The Innovation Alliance is a coalition of research and development-based technology companies representing innovators, patent owners, and stakeholders who believe in the critical importance of maintaining a strong patent system that supports innovative enterprises of all sizes.

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56 min
January 22, 2025 ChinaTalk in the Year of the Dragon + What Comes Next
Here's a best-of playlist for 2024: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3yexkG2kvPlq68B22pjOWw?si=da3d1cf64dfe4a2ci
Outtro Music: Дили-дили (Dili-dili) Artist: Гюлли Чохели (Gyulli Chokheli), 1967

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35 min
January 21, 2025Noah Smith: Trump 2.0's Impact on Asia + The New Tech Right
Our guest today is economist Noah Smith, who made time for an in-person interview during his recent trip to Taiwan. He runs the Noahpinion substack and is the author of an upcoming book on the revival of the Japanese economy.
We discuss…
The goals of Silicon Valley's pro-Trump constituency, from deregulation, to tariffs, to China policy,
Whether Elon is standing up for Taiwan behind closed doors,
Whether Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and Poland need their own nuclear weapons,
How Taiwan could bargain for independence with China’s leaders post-Xi,
National health insurance as a potential solution to China’s aggregate demand problem,
A Georgist perspective on China’s real estate problem,
Why China’s demographic issues are overstated,
Recommendations for Taiwan’s economic development.

To hear more of Noah's musings, check out Econ 102, a podcast by Turpentine.
Outtro music: Wifey by Dizzy Dizzo 蔡詩芸 (Youtube Link)
Cover art: 清冷枚梧桐双兔图

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1 hr 10 min
January 16, 2025 yup, more export controls....foundry, DRAM, and reflections
Greg Allen of CSIS and I are tired! We go through today's new export controls to stop TSMC from fabbing Huawei chips, some DRAM revisions, and discuss the past two years of Biden BIS policy and where we could all be going next.
Outtro music: 大雨 - deca joins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FFALDn1yGQ

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35 min
January 15, 2025 EMERGENCY POD: AI Diffusion Export Controls
Biden last export control, for real this time! Who does and doesn't get to build datacenters under this new regulation?
To discuss, we brought on RAND's Lennart Heim, Jimmy Goodrich, Chris Miller, and Dylan Patel.
Outtro Music: Afida Es & the Siglap Boys - jangan goda, Malaysia, 1967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvXrdwKST1U&ab_channel=schutbart
hasnah haron & the spiritual 70's _ bintang pujaan, Malaysia 1977 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4cMsoLttNs&ab_channel=nostalgiahassny

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1 hr 3 min
January 13, 2025Amb. Burns Reflects from Beijing
Can diplomatic charisma prevent crises from escalating? Does the CCP feel conflicted about aligning with the likes of Iran and North Korea? What’s the use of communicating during a great power competition?
To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed R. Nicholas Burns, Biden’s Ambassador to China, whose diplomatic career spans 35 years and 8 countries.
We discuss…
Kissinger’s experience negotiating with the CCP,
Why China’s negotiating tactics are so different from those of the Soviet Union,
How European allies are helping to push back against Chinese aggression,
Great power responsibilities, and whether Chinese leaders truly appreciate the reputational costs of helping the Russians and the Houthis,
Biden’s victories with new partners in the Pacific,
How diplomats express consequences and draw red lines during international crises,
Areas of mutual interest where the U.S. and China can still engage productively,
The importance of specialists in the Foreign Service.

Outro music:
Óró Mo Bháidín - Mary O’Hara
Auld Lang Syne - Rendition by The Irish Rovers, originally written by Robert Burns

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1 hr 19 min
January 09, 2025Tech Bros vs MAGA, Immigration, and Whether Tiger Parents Will Win Cold War 2.0
To discuss the Christmas Day MAGA civil war over H1Bs and the future of US immigration policy, ChinaTalk interviewed Divyansh Kaushik, a computer science PhD and vice president of Beacon Global Strategies.
We get into…
Pro-immigrant attitudes among Trump’s allies in Silicon Valley
Creative political maneuvering that could make high-skill immigration reform a reality
Whether Vivek is right about American culture aspiring to normalcy
Other areas where Elon and the tech right might spend their political influence
How nativist backlash could influence Trump’s agenda
Why India has yet to produce an influential, home-grown AI lab

Special thanks to Mani Subramani, Gauri Subramani, and our anonymous contributor who grew up in China for sharing their reflections on immigrant parenting.
Outro song: Kishore Kumar, Rote Hue Aate Hai Sab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18Pgofqpnc

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1 hr 14 min
December 29, 2024 China's Best Music of 2024
Jake Newby is the author of Concrete Avalanche, a free newsletter about music from China. You might remember Jake from the Chinese shoegaze election playlist, or from the tracklist he presented on ChinaTalk back in June. Now that the year is over, Jake is here to introduce his picks for the overall most interesting songs to come out of China in 2024.
This tracklist includes everything from Afrobeat-influenced Beijing funk endorsed by Gilles Peterson, to an electronic track crafted in a Tibetan monastery featuring Buddhist chanting. You can find links to listen to each track individually on the ChinaTalk substack. Enjoy!

1. Golden Seeds 黄金种子 by Sleeping Dogs
2. Never Broken, Never Healed by Seon Ga 信鴿
3. Aroma Compound by ayrtbh
4. Stage Riot 舞台 by Carsick Cars
5. Hereditary Nightmare 遗传噩梦 by The Swan and Blossoms 天鹅与花朵
6. Kagi 鍵 by Voision Xi
7. 物件 (Object) by Mdprl & Git Bu$y Trio
8. Night Patrol by Fazi 法兹
9. Mantra Of Buddha Akshobhya 不动佛心咒 by Howie Lee
10. Ghostbomb by Ghostmass 大鬼众

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55 min

About ChinaTalk

From the publisher's feed

Conversations exploring China, technology, and US-China relations. Guests include a wide range of analysts, policymakers, and academics. Hosted by Jordan Schneider.