Conscious Chatter

In episode 285, Kestrel welcomes artist and illustrator Kelly Lottahall to the show. An artist and illustrator, Kelly incorporates preloved textiles and scraps into her unique works of art.

"It's so like not that significant to most people, but for me — when it's an item, a shirt, anything that's used … this doesn't have to be vintage, I'm talking about stuff that's just regular old stuff people don't want. Not like vintage that's 30 years old and super cool because it's another era — no, I'm talking about like 10 years ago and you don't care about it anymore. I'm like no, but I do — that could be really really cool, are you kidding me?" -Kelly

Have you ever noticed how the fashion world often orients itself as very separate from the art world?

They are obviously intertwined, and we see some overlap in the mainstream, but there tends to be a very distanced relationship – especially in the way that the fashion industry disregards the artistic aspects of fashion.

Here's a couple examples –

• Garment construction has been devalued and not treated as though it is a REAL art form – both in the way sewers are paid (so often less than a living wage) when they are true artists; and also in how the industry has reduced our perceived *value* of garments through fast fashion and lower prices.

• There is the way that traditional fabrics and garments (which literally ARE art) have been disrespected and/or appropriated for the sake of commercialism – so stealing cultural fashion art and then replicating it in a way to simply make a profit off of it (in turn, totally detaching it from its artistic roots).

This week's guest is literally BRINGING the fashion and art worlds together through her unique craft, and she's repurposing quote unquote *trash* while doing it.

As she says –

"I like finding old things and turning them into new things. I like gadgets that used to work that don't anymore. I like clothes that are too old to wear the original way, that can be recreated in a new way."

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "I think there is something in me — there's just this natural connection with somebody's lived in story." -Kelly (9:36)

• "The biggest thing we need to understand is that our culture — we just consume so much, excessively consume so much stuff that we just don't have to have. But we also have to understand that brands — fast fashion brands — they also know this about us, and they've made it so easy for us to just click and buy the second we think about it." -Kelly (32:14)

• "A Photographer, A Stylist, And An Artist" collaboration

• Kelly's Website >

• Follow Kelly on Instagram >

In episode 284, Kestrel welcomes designer Angel Chang to the show. Over the last decade, Angel has been working with artisans in southwest rural China, making garments using zero carbon design / Indigenous practices (all-natural, locally-made, zero electricity).

"For the past 20,000 years, we've been making our own fabric and you know, using ingredients from our own backyard. It's only in the last 150 years that electricity was invented, that chemical dyes were created, that plastic and plastic textiles were created. And all the stuff that we say is polluting for the fashion industry — well, that was all created in the last 150 years. So, if we really want to create quote unquote sustainable clothing, we just have to make clothing like it was before then, before the Industrial Revolution." -Angel

The sustainability and fashion narrative has an obsession with whatever is *new and innovative*. The focus regularly leans toward innovations in fabric development or tech-centered approaches to reduce carbon emissions. There tends to be this obsession with looking forward into the future, instead of slowing down to look back and maybe unveil what we could also learn from the past.

This week's guest has deep knowledge around this. After falling in love with the hand-embroidered Miao traditional costumes exhibited in museums around the world, Angel found herself traveling to remote mountain villages in Guizhou Province, China, searching for the elders who made them.

And she ended up finding them.

Years later, she's working in collaboration with several communities, in an effort to help preserve their textile traditions that over the last 30 years or so, have been eroding amidst China's rapid modernization.

As she says –

"Saving these textile traditions is not just about preserving the past. They can also provide tangible solutions for an environmentally sustainable future."

Turns out, zero carbon design – fashion that's all natural and locally-made with no electricity — is possible.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "I think maybe it's human nature to always want to find something that's new and flashy. But I feel like it's also feeding an obsession that will never be satiated. There's always so much emphasis on technology and the future, and the thing is — technology is not going to be the thing that's going to save us from climate change or whatever. We have to learn how to work with nature again." -Angel (49:59)

• Alexis Bunten, Angel mentions them and some of their wisdom about the need to reconnect with our own roots

• "I think not being able to know who you are fuels a lot of insecurity and unrest internally. And so, I feel like learning about where we come from, our ancestral roots, and going to that physical land and just feeling it and spending some time there — I feel like that will give us a lot of solace and calm us down and bring more satisfaction to our hearts and souls." -Angel (59:38)

• "How Ancient Textiles Can Help The Future", Angel's TEDTalk

• Angel Chang Website >

• Follow Angel on Instagram >

• Follow Angel Chang (the brand) on Instagram >

In episode 283, Kestrel welcomes Kristin Morrison, the founder and designer behind All Species, to the show. A textile arts and design studio, All Species investigates the potential to create regenerative garments and textiles.

The below story was written by this week's guest — it's vision-inducing and reminds us of all the value that can come from further connecting ourselves to the natural world. It's a beautiful way to envision what could happen if we work toward literally wearing the land around us.

"Can we imagine together the rumble of 200 hooves- the vibration spiraling up from your feet to your heart as you witness wooly Rambouillet sheep running in the distance. Your work boots kick up dust as you run alongside to get a closer view.

Sipping in the scent of wool, grasses, soil, you can sense the vitality of this wild ecosystem. Hooves till the soil…wild grasses are mowed by hungry animals and the carbon gases are sequestered safely back into the earth in the process.

Today is a special day, sheep shearing day. You are here to witness the fine wool be cut from the animals, leaving them with small bare bodies. Shearing is a necessity and tradition that keeps the sheep healthy and also provides a source of income for the farmer.

Giant pillows of dusty, grassy, potent wool will be sent to local mills to be made into cloth. Sensing the good intention of this in your belly, brings a feeling of wholeness to your being, like you are part of something bigger than yourself.

The wools is then spun and woven into exquisite cloth in artisanal mills. In your minds eye, you imagine the supple yet stiff fabric and how it will be draped into form passing through hands of more creators…how it might shift from cream to charcoal as it is colored with native plants-and eventually come together as calf length coat styled with other fibers from the land.

This embodied garment, carries the vibration of all the hands who have imbued love into its cloth and echos the rumble of those 200 sheep."

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• Sally Fox, one of Kristin's fabric suppliers — listen to Sally on episode 267 of Conscious Chatter >

• CA Cloth Foundry, one of Kristin's fabric suppliers — listen to founder Lydia on episode 135 of Conscious Chatter >

• "When we are wearing the land, we embody the frequency of it — it's subtle quiet and yet, powerfully transformative. And in this, we are invited into the wisdom and the knowing, to what the lands needs to regenerate." -Kristin (32:09)

• All Species website >

• Follow Kristin / All Species on Instagram >

In episode 282, Kestrel welcomes Katia Dayan Vladimirova, a senior researcher at the University of Geneva, to the show. In addition to her research on fashion consumption, sustainability, and degrowth, Katia is the founder and coordinator at the Sustainable Fashion Consumption Network, and recently contributed to the Hot or Cool Institute's Report – Unfit, Unfair, Unfashionable.

"Sufficiency is part of —very much interlinked with degrowth conversations today — it's about abandoning economic growth in favor of wellbeing and enoughness as a positive vision of the future, in which we are content with enough and are not looking for more all the time." -Katia

I've been thinking a lot about the sustainable fashion narrative (over the last decade or so) and as I see it, we've seen a few big stages in the conversation – mind you, there are so many more nuanced narratives that have been out there, but these are the narratives I've heard the most noise around:

Stage 1 – A focus on redirecting your consumption habits. The idea that you can be more sustainable with your wardrobe if you buy differently. The narrative was very much interconnected with capitalism and focused on the notion of BUY THIS, NOT THAT.

Stage 2 – A basic understanding that massive corporations are the biggest culprits of carbon emissions and human rights violations in fashion. The narrative shifted a bit away from *blaming the consumer* and a bit toward highlighting the need for brands to change. This also involved an acknowledgement of the important role that legislation can play in transforming the industry. This was when we saw the rise of the fashion activist.

Stage 3 – (This is the stage I believe we are currently amidst.) It's a combination of the previous stages, with greater context and more specific recommendations on HOW to truly make an impact. It involves an understanding that there is not one specific avenue to change the way fashion currently operates – but instead, we need all hands on deck, and multiple avenues working to address the industry's inequities.

This week's guest was one of the authors of a recent report that came out by the Hot or Cool Institute. I feel like the findings in this report directly assist in providing specific ways that a so-called CONSUMER can transform their behavior to make measurable impacts on climate change (something I'm seeing as an integral part of this Stage 3 we are currently amidst).

In the report, it highlights that – "If no other actions are implemented, such as repairing/mending, washing at lower temperatures, or buying second-hand, purchases of new garments should be limited to an average 5 items per year for achieving consumption levels in line with the Paris Agreement – to keep the average global temperature rise below 1.5 degrees Celsius by 2030.

This is very exciting – to see a report tell us a target number – to let us know that we can still buy clothing, but if we can all reduce our purchasing to only 5 garments per year, we can stay within planetary boundaries.

Tune in to hear more from this week's guest on HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? when it comes to our fashion consumption.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• Hot or Cool Institute's Report "Unfit, Unfair, Unfashionable: Resizing Fashion for a Fair Consumption Space"

• Sustainable Fashion Consumption Network, international research network on sustainable fashion consumption

• "Consumption Corridors in Fashion: Deliberations on upper consumption limits in minimalist fashion challenges", Katia's article that explores how much is enough

• "When we're talking about the key driving force behind the growing emissions in fashion — these are the wealthiest 20%. And we may think that, wealthiest 20%, oh this is somewhere far away from us. But if we look at the numbers — in Germany, to be within the wealthiest 20%, the individual income has to be over 3.2K Euros per month. So, many people who are participating in policy conversations, in research — many people who are asking these questions actually are within the richest 20 percent." -Katia (26:17)

• "Those who really should change is the middle class and upper middle class who can afford to buy better, but they choose not to." (27:22)

• "The positive message here is that when we're talking about staying within planetary boundaries, we're not talking about having 2 pairs of underpants, 2 socks and a pair of jeans for the whole year — that's not the case. We actually have a very generous allowance — our allowance to stay under the 1.5 degree limit is higher than the number of pieces that a woman in France used to have in the 1960s in her wardrobe. So we're really very generously allowed to experiment." -Katia (29:30)

• "Citizen Insights: Clothing Longevity and Circular Business Models Receptivity in the UK", WRAP study that Katia mentions

• Follow Katia on Instagram >

In episode 281, Kestrel welcomes Sarah Danu, the founder of Danu Organic, to the show. Danu Organic is focused on making clothing that is healthy for our bodies, the earth and everybody involved in the growing and making process of our garments.

When it comes to food, we are constantly bombarded with messaging around healthy choices, and we have been taught to weigh which ingredients or products are the HEALTHIER option. However, when it comes to our clothes, do you ever hear folks question whether or not a garment is HEALTHY?

This week's guest, Sarah, makes what she calls – HEALTHY CLOTHES.

While it's often overlooked, when we put on clothing, its components can enter our body, which can impact our overall health. For Sarah, a personal health crisis years ago opened her eyes to this very real discovery. When an organic underwear set turned her skin red – she knew there was more to uncover beyond just the fiber choice – to truly understand what our clothing contains.

While we're starting to hear warnings from experts about how toxins are being discovered in fast fashion garments, the research on the direct impact of wearing toxic clothing is minimal.

But if we look to anecdotal examples, there are multiple pieces of evidence that showcase the impacts of toxic clothing. I have heard numerous stories from folks who had some sort of health crisis, that they then discover was impacted by their clothing.

So what does healthy clothes really mean?

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• Vreseis, Danu Organic uses some of Sally Fox's naturally colored cotton — listen to our show with Sally here >

• Danu Organic's new jeans

• Follow Danu Organic on Pinterest >

• Follow Sarah on Instagram >

• Follow Danu Organic on Instagram >

In episode 280, Kestrel welcomes Nadia Bunyan, a fashion designer & the cofounder of Growing A.R.C., to the show. Growing A.R.C. is a nonprofit that creates spaces and opportunities for people to activate, reciprocate and cultivate their relationships with all beings. Through plants, material culture, and bioregional design, they are engaging in a conversation on sustainability through active participation.

What started as an experiment – tossing some flax seeds into the ground in the backyard, has now led to the creation of a community-oriented nonprofit, that's using the concept of farm to closet to shift peoples' mindset on consumption; reinforcing their connection to the local environment and expanding their understanding of biodiversity to include the diversity of human perspectives, and experiences from diverse communities (because while we are trained otherwise, yes – we, humans, are also a part of nature).

Nadia gives us an education on the need to try new things, to jump in without the fear of making mistakes, and to embrace those so-called *failures* along the way. As she tells us, "No expert becomes an expert without first having tried something."

With over 20 years of experience working as a fashion designer, she started growing flax – has now harvested it with other collaborators, and is working toward spinning and weaving it into linen fabric.

Such a reminder that there is so much beauty that can be found through the act of stepping outside of your comfort zone and opening yourself up to learning new things.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "You can plant, you can craft, you can knit, you can do what have you. But we're around each other and in those moments, we're talking. And that's the cultivation — not just of the plant, but of community. You need to put into your community, you need to support, you need to create spaces for that to happen, and you need to give space for that to grow." -Nadia (25:38)

• "So, to grow the flax, it's a period of about 80-90 days, to get it to the right maturity, so that you have fiber. And that changes, depending. You can harvest the flax at different times, depending on how fine you want the flax to be. Full germination to get seeds is 100 days. So, when you take it out at 100 days, then you have the seeds, but you're gonna have a very rough kind of fiber. We've experimented with both and left some plants in a little longer so that we would have seeds for next year, and also to see how thick that fiber is going to be." -Nadia (36:48)

• "How the pandemic transformed one Montrealer's relationship to her backyard and her world", article in CBC that features Nadia

• Interview with Nadia on CBC, starts at around 12 minutes into the video

• Follow Growing A.R.C. on Facebook >

• Follow Nadia on Instagram >

• Follow Growing A.R.C. on Instagram >

In episode 279, Kestrel welcomes Jono Salfield, the cofounder of Afends, to the show. A sustainability-focused brand based in Byron Bay, Australia, Afends recently started their own Hemp R&D facility – Sleepy Hollow Farm — delving into farming to grow their own hemp for future collections.

"Sustainability is just an evolution and being more innovative and looking at alternatives and trying things, to basically improve the way that we impact. Because we're always gonna impact. And if you say that you're not impacting, then you're lying, really." -Jono

We've definitely explored HEMP on past shows. We've explored the challenges in cultivating the fiber commercially, due to legislation that prevented that for the last century or so. We've talked about the many uses of the plant – from feeding to housing to healing to clothing you.

And this week, we're talking about how to actually GROW THE PLANT for fiber production.

Our guest, Jono, is the cofounder of an Australia-based brand, Afends, and now, you could also say, a hemp farmer. Two things I very rarely encounter TOGETHER across my work in this space.

In 2021, he and his cofounder purchased nearby farmland to build a hemp R&D facility – Sleepy Hollow Farm. And recently, they harvested their first fiber, impressively growing enough to replace the hemp used in their current line. Throughout our chat, we get into the why, the how, the challenges and the wins they've experienced in their first foray into hemp farming.

But for real – how do you go from running a brand to buying farmland, getting your hands in the dirt and figuring out how to actually grow fiber!? As Jono tells us, "we kind of jump into the deep end a lot." I'd say so.

He shares more on why hemp is so freaking amazing (from both a farming and carbon-capture lens), the general process involved with retting and decordication, the challenges that still exist to turn the plant fiber into actual fabric, and more.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "What we aim to do is show Australia, or even the rest of the world, that hemp is a fiber which can 1) be easily grown, 2) be potentially that next big fiber that can help decrease a bunch of the impacts that growing conventional cotton has." -Jono (17:26)

• "For us, looking at the farming from seed to skin was something really important to us, because yeah, you can go online and you can research everything until you've seen what everyone's written. But I think there's something really important about seeing things firsthand and discovering what it entails to do it yourself." -Jono (17:55)

• "The type of plant that we need to grow for textiles is fast-growing sativa plant, which we needed to get to maximum height and it needs to be super dense. The denser, the more plants in a small area, the better, because you'll be able to grow more fiber, basically. Sourcing that seed was the first major challenge." -Jono (20:18)

• Retting Process = hemp gets cut down and left in the field to basically let the microbes start to help separate the fiber from the hurd

• Decordication = separating the hurd from the fiber // the long stalk has fiber on the outside and hurd on the inside

• "We're not able to make that fiber into actual textiles in Australia, there's just no facilities set up. So, we have to send it to China, to where we actually construct and make the textile material. And look, ideally, on a perfect sustainable level, everything's just done within a few kilometers of where you've grown it, so the impact's as small as possible. But, we're not there yet." -Jono (24:55)

• "The other major positive behind it is that nothing goes to waste — especially when you're growing fiber — because you've got this super dense field of really tall, stick-like plants, basically. There's a little bit of leaf on top, but it's not a thick cannibis plant with heaps of leaves and buds and stuff. But everything gets used. The hurd gets used for building, and then you've got the textiles from the fiber. So, the whole plant gets used. It's quite incredible in that degree." -Jono (29:03)

• Watch *Weed Need Change* Hemp Docu-Series >

• Afends Website >

• Follow Afends on Instagram >

In episode 279, Kestrel welcomes Shubhi Sachan, a multidisciplinary designer and the the founder of Material Library of India, to the show. A research and design space, Material Library of India is the first material library in India, and is focused on remodeling the use of industrial & agricultural waste materials, by combining the knowledge and skills of traditional crafts with modern materials.

"We are not talking about waste holistically. And to be able to get the best output in my experience when you're working with recycling or post-consumer for any industry (not just picking on textile industry), you have to think about system change, because the more marriages you make while making that particular product or a material, the more complex the recycling cycle is. And the more complicated the recycling cycle is, the more difficult it is to get anything out of that, at the end of life." -Shubhi

When we talk about *textile industry waste* – what comes to mind? For me, it's fabric piling up, off-cuts scattered about, rolls and rolls of fabric, and heaps of garments that were overproduced and unsold.

However – as our guest Shubhi reminds us – when we talk about *textile industry waste* we can't just talk about textiles. The entire industry produces a lot more than just fabric in excess. From underwires to buttons to rivets to zippers … fashion uses materials like polymers, metal, rubber, adhesives, and of course - textiles.

Basically, we are NOT talking about waste holistically.

And when we are thinking about solutions, yet again – the approach thus far has predominantly been reactionary instead of preventative.

As Shubhi shares, in order to get the best output (meaning that at the end of life, there is the best potential for it to be recycled well or to go back to the earth through composting) … you have to think about systems change. Because if not, the recycling process at the end of a garment's life just gets more and more complicated and less and less productive.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "Industries are producing textiles, and yes, the rejents, the off-cuts, and all those things. They, put together, make industrial textile waste. But, the moment you move into a post consumer textile waste section — post consumer textile waste section is comprised of zippers, buttons, labels, your underwires of bra, and everything that you've sandwiched together to make that fabric or a garment behave in a certain manner. It's a marriage and an amalgamation of any material and every material from polymer industry to textile industry to metal to rubber to adhesives to everything." -Shubhi (21:11)

• "But once you trap anything in resin, it's not good to take care of its own self. Natural materials are capable of taking care of their own selves. But once you trap them into a manmade material or any poly resin or any synthetic matter, for that matter — maybe you're able to justify, which often is the case, that you're using less virgin material of that particular polymer, but you're trapping that particular agricultural waste in a position where it can't take care of itself and it's actually becoming another piece of plastic." -Shubhi (38:26)

• Material Library Of India's Website >

• Follow Material Library of India on Instagram >

In episode 277, Kestrel welcomes Jesus Herrera — a model, clothing designer, vintage curator, and poet — to the show. Also known by their moniker Donatella because of their Instagram handle @donatellaversanchez, Jesus is the cofounder of the vintage jesus online store and Les Jesus fashion brand.

"I've also brought space to my partnerships. I've also brought an understanding that I should not interfere and I should not demand from a culture that has existed for hundreds and sometimes thousands of years in one specific way, just because I have a purpose or just because I have a need or just because I have a goal in mind. My purpose, my need and my goal are my own. But my purpose and my need and my goal should not interfere with somebody else's happiness, with their way of life, with how they think that the best quality of life is lived or led." -Jesus

Have you ever noticed the way that certain garments are valued more than others? Or the way that some craftsmanship styles are aligned with couture or exceptional quality, and others are not held to that same regard?

This week's guest reminds us of some of these ways that specific garments are valued differently than others, and how so often these perceptions are based largely around who wears those garments.

For example, how does the fashion industry value a piece of clothing, if it's worn by the ladies who lunch? What about if it's worn by an Indigenous person?

One theme that recurs throughout our conversation is finding ways to resist this dichotomy between who is valued and who is not.

As this week's guest notes – "Not only one set of people who have a certain set of resources matter more than another set of people in the world. This is how we should be looking at community and politics and life."

We also explore the expectations that come with capitalism, and how surrendering to those can hinder the development of meaningful partnerships and relationships.

For this week's guest, there are so many limits around partnership, and those limits should be respected.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "But when I came to have better resources, I realized that that was not the case — that new things were not made of quality, that new things were not made of wonderful materials, that new things were not warm or didn't keep you always cozy. So, I think that's why I gravitated more toward that idea of sustainability — of using vintage things, of making things in really good quality fabrics, because that's just the experience I grew up with, out of necessity." -Jesus (9:40)

• "The hardest person to be is the person that you say you are." -a quote from Teri Agins that Jesus mentions

• The End Of Fashion by Teri Agins, book that Jesus mentions

• "We all live with contradictions — I live with a ton of contradictions and I'm not hiding them, which is something that I'm really proud of." -Jesus (20:11)

• "This whole thing about never wanting to be wrong is the problem." -Jesus (33:28)

• "Real partnership and good partnership is not someone coming in somewhere and saying, 'I'm gonna do you a favor'. I don't come into any of my relationships thinking I'm going to do the other person a favor. I come into every relationship thinking — I'm gonna learn something. I come excited and I come ready to be impressed and mesmerized, because most of the times when I've come into anything with that mindset and with that open heart, I have been mesmerized, I have been impressed, I have learned something, I've been humbled by the experience — that's how I come into every experience, and that's partnership to me." -Jesus (35:02)

• "I've also brought space to my partnerships. I've also brought an understanding that I should not interfere and I should not demand from a culture that has existed for hundreds and sometimes thousands of years in one specific way, just because I have a purpose or just because I have a need or just because I have a goal in mind." -Jesus (37:47)

• "Meet the Designer Duo Marrying Traditional Mexican Craft With Forward-Thinking Fashion" in Vogue, article Kestrel mentions

• "From Indigenous Textiles to Gender Fluidity, Fashion Designer Jesus Herrera Wants Marginalized People to Be Seen & Respected" in Mexico In My Pocket, article Kestrel mentions

• The Vintage Jesus on Etsy >

• Les Jesus Website >

• Follow Les Jesus on Instagram >

• Follow The Vintage Jesus on Instagram >

• Follow Jesus on Instagram >

In episode 276, Kestrel welcomes Dr. Dion Terrelonge, a chartered psychologist, to the show. A researcher and stylist, Dion's work explores the connection between clothes and human expression.

"We live so much of our lives in clothing and we experience the highest points and the lowest points of our lives often in clothing. So, I really do think the stories and the relationships are there, but what has happened, I believe, is with fast fashion and online shopping, is because there is so much clothing being pumped out, this endless conveyor belt of clothes, that we don't really have as much time to build relationships with our clothing." -Dion

When you think about shopping, what feelings come up for you?

One emotion that tends to surface for a lot of us is HAPPINESS. We have come to a place where we often align the act of shopping with a state of happiness.

I mean, I can definitely understand the alignment between shopping and emotions. As Dion reminds us, there have been a lot of narratives that have reinforced this – statements like *retail therapy* or thinking of shopping as a fun form of entertainment.

I can point to many instances in my past where buying something was absolutely connected to wanting to make myself feel better, to wanting to find joy through the act of buying something.

But this alignment so many of us have – that shopping = happiness – is problematic in so many ways and in the end, isn't accurate.

Dion, a chartered psychologist, sheds light on the arc of happiness or self determination theory. She reminds us that while some of the elements that intersect with shopping may bring us happiness, the act of buying stuff isn't it.

Maybe the time you spend with friends while shopping makes you happy. Maybe putting on a garment that was handed over to you from your mom makes you happy. Maybe owning and embracing your personal style makes you happy. But buying another item isn't it.

Throughout our conversation, Dion also helps contextualize a lot about our shopping behaviors, especially when it comes to the speed of today's buying culture, so we can find ways to become more consciously engaged in our own lives.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "Tackling fast fashion must be our next global battle" in Big Issue; article Dion was featured in

• "This is what actually happens to your brain when you shop online" in Stylist; article Dion was featured in

• Thinking Fast & Slow by Daniel Kahneman, book that Dion mentions

• Dion's reel about the Peak-End Rule

• "We're just really living in an era of living beyond our means." (45:25)

• Additional pieces Dion has contributed to:

  'We live our lives in clothes' | The British Psychological Society

  Red Or White? How My Wedding Dress Choice Is Affecting My Thoughts On Identity | British Vogue

  How fashion's erratic sizing is fuelling a clothing waste crisis | Dazed

  What happens to our brains when we shop online? | stylist.co.uk

  What Does Your Jewelry Say About You? | PORTER

  How to talk to your friends about sustainable fashion | HURR

• Dion's Website >

• Follow Dion on Instagram >