Copywriters Podcast

The term “cult” has become such a loaded word lately.

People who aren’t members of certain groups call the groups a cult, and the members of those groups resent and deny it.

Yet, are all cults bad?

Maybe some are, maybe some aren’t.

But on today’s show, Nathan Fraser is going to talk about a special kind of cult that, in his view, is not only GOOD — but actually necessary to the survival of some of his clients.

We’ve got to admit, these are not what you usually think of when you hear the word “cult,” but once you hear what Nathan has to say, you may look at the whole idea in an entirely different light.

Find out more about Nathan’s Forbidden Marketing Secrets group on Skool: Cult-ure Builders.

http://forbiddenmarketingsecrets.com/

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Ever wonder how to set yourself, your product, or your business apart?

It’s a big puzzle these days.

The best general advice I’ve heard is from recent podcast guest Scott Zetlan:

“Different is better than better.”

It almost sounds silly, but in the super-competitive marketplace, where products live in the real world, it’s not silly at all.

It’s actually profound.

Because here’s what it means:

When you can show something DIFFERENT about what you’re offering that MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE to your prospect, you have just increased your chances MASSIVELY of making a sale.

Now, the problem is:

What kind of difference will appeal above all others to your prospect, and how do you use it to describe your product?

I have an answer to that question. And a method to find out what that difference is.

Links:

The Persuasion Story Code: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ

Critiques and coaching: https://garfinkelcoaching.com

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Job one for a copywriter is getting and keeping attention. We always give that our best shot.

But there are some situations where you need to do this more intensely, and you don’t want to come across like a screaming insane person yelling loudly just to get attention.

So we need to come up with some unusual techniques, to increase the intensity without pushing our prospects away.

That’s what today’s show is about. I’ve identified five unusual copy techniques that are especially helpful for cold traffic and introducing new products.

They are a bit exotic, and you’ll find at least some of them extremely useful the next time you write copy.

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Today we’re going to talk about two words that can change your writing forever. Not just your copywriting, but especially your copywriting.

One word is a first-grade word and the second word is a fourth-grade word, according to people who seem to know about those things.

The words are “but” – with one ‘t’ – and “therefore.”

Why are these words so important and who, besides us, says so?

It’s because these words can take a boring string of sentences and make them interesting.

They can add conflict, and consequences, to a story with as few as three sentences.

We’ll show you why and how, and how this is true from stories around the world, in a little bit.

The key thing to know now is that the creators of the cartoon show South Park, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, have been flying around the country explaining how these two words make the difference between boring and a really good story.

I saw a one-minute video on TwitterX of these two talking to some students at New York University, and I instantly realized, this is something for Copywriters Podcast.

Because what they are teaching, which we will get to in a moment, not only applies to stories, but also to many other parts of copy. Therefore, we’ll be talking about these two words today.

See what I did there?

Resource: The Persuasion Story Code

http://shorturl.at/pzAEQ

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You know FAQs – that list of frequently asked questions, and answers?

Are they a copywriting chore you would just as soon avoid?

Well, today I’d like to offer a different way to look at them. As a huge, and mainly underutilized, marketing opportunity.

I want you to consider this possibility:

An FAQ section doesn't just inform. It also persuades. But not in a cheesy, ham-fisted kind of way.

See, it is possible to inform while persuading, and we’ll look at how today.

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OK, finally. You’ve got your copy written.

At least your first draft.

Now what?

That’s what a subscriber to the podcast asked me on youtube a few weeks ago.

The best I can do to answer that question is tell you how I look at copy, whether it’s my own, or a client’s.

Today’s show is about a series of steps I go through to review copy with a mentoring client or in a one-off copy critique.

Some of this may be familiar, but listen for the parts that aren’t. Adding those parts to your routine could end up taking your finished copy to the next level.

We go into depth on the podcast, but here is the complete set of lists from the show:

4 important things to look for first

1. Who is the prospect? Who is not? How would you know if you tripped over them?

2. Empathy

3. Rule of 1 - Golden Thread

4. Continuity and Smooth Transitions

5 Key Elements Of Copy

1. Headline

2. Opening

3. Proof

4. Offer

5. Call to action

Getting the words right

1. Do you use easy, simple-to-understand words?

2. Variety in sentence, paragraph length—and bolding

3. Flesch-Kincaid grade level

4. Images, emotions, physicality of descriptions

5. Conversational phrasing and actual dialog

Readability formulas, mentioned in the show: https://readabilityformulas.com/

Mentoring and critiques: https://garfinkelcoaching.com

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These days, things in copywriting are changing so fast it can make your head spin.

Junior copywriters aren’t sure there’s a career path, because of AI.

Experienced copywriters are finding clients have different and sometimes confusing demands that you never would have heard five years ago.

Our special guest today, Scott Zetlan, has some answers for junior copywriters, experienced copywriters, and everyone in between.

That’s because he’s seen and done so much in business, both old school and online. Scott has helped hundreds of businesses grow and scale fast, using innovative testing techniques.

Scott’s company, Visiopt, has a tool that lets businesses run a single test equivalent to a whopping 4,317 split tests, allowing for rapid optimization that leads to profits and new opportunities.

Scott’s also an expert in writing copy that converts cold traffic.

He’s agreed to come on the podcast to talk about a new model of survival and success for copywriters, based on his wide span of expertise and his current in-the-trenches experience.

Scott’s company: https://visiopt.com/
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One of the hardest things for copywriters and business owners to get right is running ads to cold traffic on Facebook and Instagram, and making those ads profitable.

If you’ve tried this for yourself, I think you know what I mean.

So does today’s guest, who has discovered some important techniques that work and has also discovered the mistakes to avoid, and is going to share valuable info about both with you in detail.

Our special guest today is Travis Moh, a media buyer who understands copywriting as well as the mysterious world of online funnels and different types of campaigns.

Travis is responsible for more than $25 million in tracked revenue over the last three years. He says, “most clients I work with come to me after they've been burned by large ad agencies, because they like my in-house, in-depth approach much better.”

Travis also coaches other media buyers and business owners, and he’s going to let us in on some of his hard-won knowledge today.

But first, let me let you in on something you may have heard before:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Links to Travis’s courses:

Agency Owners / Media Buyers Segment: https://mediabuyingpro.com/agency

Course Creators / Coaches Segment: https://mediabuyingpro.com/adsforcoaches

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I would say our guest today Will Siebler takes a Zen approach to copywriting. On the home page of his website, he has a picture of a lonely but sturdy coffee cup on a table. On the coffee cup is the word “Begin.”

But the shimmering peace is shattered by a few words overlayed on the picture:

“I’m Will. I write words that make your clients say, ‘Shut up and take my money!’”

It’s a quiet confidence you just don’t see that often in copywriters.

Will has had his own marketing and copywriting business since 2003.

He knows how to get big results, too.

He helped a commercial cleaning go from $1 million a year in revenue to $5 million by using a simple direct mail strategy aimed at their best client type.

Online, he recently helped a building design client reduce their cost per conversion from $1,168.58 to $132.72 and, he says, we’re just getting started.

I met Will on LinkedIn, and a few weeks ago he shared a two page document with me that he’s spent years putting together. It’s not a sales letter. It’s a cheat sheet of what he calls “the greatest copywriting wisdom” he’s come across in 30 years.

And he’s boiled it down to the nub.

I asked Will to come on Copywriters Podcast to talk about it, and he agreed. Because he’s in Australia and Nathan and I are in the US, we are recording this much later in the day than our usual time. That’s why there’s a screen behind me to block out the late afternoon San Francisco blazing sunlight, if you’re watching this on youtube and you wondered, what’s that screen doing up there?

Will's website

https://www.cashcopy.com.au/

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Listen to this:

“A perfect summer day is when the sun is shining, the breeze is blowing, the birds are singing, and the lawn mower is broken.”

That’s from author and sportswriter Jim Dent, and it perfectly captures how a lot of us feel in the summertime. Lazy and happy to be so.

And that’s fine.

But don’t mistake your state of mind for the state of business. While more retail sales happen in November and December than they do in July and August, business is still very active. People want things. People buy things.

Did you buy or sell anything in the middle of July, on Amazon Prime days? I know I sold a bunch of books. Well, that means somebody bought them. Business lives! And not just for me and book buyers.

What I’d like for us to do today is talk about how you can take advantage of the summer and the other three seasons in your copy and in your overall marketing.

use any time of year!

Link to The Persuasion Story Code:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ

Download.