Deviate

“So much of what is wrong with America today began with the Civil War and Reconstruction” – Jason Cochran

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason discuss the monuments at Gettysburg, and the concept of a Civil War “hero” (2:00); the revisionist post-war memorial efforts by Southern organizations (13:00); the concept of memorials, and how they shape memory (26:00); and our relationship with deceased celebrities, and how to interpret America through its monuments (40:00). 

Jason Cochran (@JasCochran), the award-winning author of Here Lies America, has been a travel authority and consumer expert for over 20 years. His work has appeared in such publications as Travel + Leisure, the New York Post, USA Today, and The New York Times. He is currently Editor-in-Chief of Frommers.com and co-host with Pauline Frommer of the weekly Travel Show on WABC. For more about Jason, check out https://jasoncochran.com/. 

Notable Links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You cannot change your reality until you see your reality.” – Alex Banayan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alex discuss mentorship (3:00); the genesis of Alex’s book The Third Door (10:00); “opportunity hurdles” (30:00); structural storytelling, and the art of learning (54:00); and the importance of thinking differently (1:11:00).

Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) is the bestselling business author of The Third Door, which chronicles his five-year quest to track down Bill Gates, Lady Gaga, Warren Buffett, Maya Angelou, Steven Spielberg, and dozens more of the world’s most successful people to uncover how they broke through and launched their careers. Alex has been named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list, Business Insider’s Most Powerful People Under 30, and been featured in major media including Fortune, Forbes, and Businessweek. For more about Alex, check out https://thirddoorbook.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, which features a one-week Big Idea Book Bootcamp, which teaches people with expertise in a specific professional field — business, medicine, science, sports, finance, etc — to channel that expertise into a book-length narrative that inspires, enlightens, and transforms readers’ perspectives of the world, and of life. 

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks, and AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize the route to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Pretty much the second you step outside your front door, you have some basis for calling what you do ‘travel’” – Spud Hilton

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Spud talk about the “messy, fun, and naughty side of travel” (3:20); sex and travel (26:00); the overly reverent language we often use to talk about travel (37:00); and the death of the “Mile-High Club” (48:00).

Spud Hilton (@SpudHilton) is a travel expert, speaker, writer and host of the Inappropriate Traveler podcast.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“It’s good as you travel to take the time to do nothing, and have nothing planned.” –Tim Leffel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00).

Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com.

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“A writer tends to notice things that other people do not notice. And they are noticing so they can write about it.” – Paul Theroux

In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00).

Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar and The Tao of Travel. His work has appeared in such publications as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and The Guardian. In 2015, Paul Theroux was awarded a Royal Medal from the Royal Geographical Society – an award, approved by the Queen, which is the highest award attainable for a traveler. His latest book, On the Plain of Snakes: A Mexican Journey, was released last month. He last talked with Rolf on Deviate Episode 31, “Paul Theroux on the art of listening, and the necessary obstacles of deep travel.”

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You do not have to feel beholden to the formula, but you do have to know the formula” – Benjamin Percy

In this episode of Deviate, we sit in on a lecture that Benjamin Percy gave at the 2019 Paris Writing Workshop, on the craft of screenwriting. 

Benjamin Percy (@Benjamin_Percy) is the author of four novels, including The Dead Lands, Red Moon, The Wilding, and The Dark Net. His other work includes numerous comics, his writing-craft book, Thrill Me, and his story collection Suicide Woods, out this month. His work has appeared in The Paris Review, The New York Times, and GQ. He currently writes the audio drama Wolverine, now in its second season, and is a regular on the lecture circuit, including at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, the Breadloaf Writers’ Conference, the Tin House Writers’ Workshop, Aspen Summer Words, and the Paris Writing Workshop. Find more about Benjamin at http://benjaminpercy.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You have to think about the shelf-life of the tension you’re creating. There should be a bigger mystery on the other side of that expiration date.” – Benjamin Percy

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Benjamin discuss the idea that all fiction is essentially genre fiction (3:30); the movement of narrative and the idea that structure underlies all stories (15:00); learning “story math” (31:00); and research processes and work habits (42:00).

Benjamin Percy (@Benjamin_Percy) is the author of four novels, including The Dead Lands, Red Moon, The Wilding, and The Dark Net. His other work includes numerous comics, his writing-craft book, Thrill Me, and his story collection Suicide Woods, out this month. His work has appeared in The Paris Review, The New York Times, and GQ. He currently writes the audio drama Wolverine, now in its second season, and is a regular on the lecture circuit, including at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, the Breadloaf Writers’ Conference, the Tin House Writers’ Workshop, Aspen Summer Words, and the Paris Writing Workshop. Find more about Benjamin at http://benjaminpercy.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“To go off the beaten path, I use a guidebook.” – Pauline Frommer, quoting a young reader

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pauline discuss the founding of Frommer’s guidebooks and the guidebook revolution (3:30); curating content in the modern world (10:30); sidestepping travel-marketing content (17:15); how guidebooks have been tailored to meet the demands of current travelers (29:00); the impact of global over-tourism (38:00); and the pitfalls of travel, and how to start the process of planning one’s next trip (46:00).

Pauline Frommer (@Frommers) is the co-President of Frommer Media LLC, publisher of the Frommer’s Travel Guidebook series, for which Pauline is the Editorial Director. She is the author of the best-selling travel guide, Frommer’s EasyGuide to New York City and her writing has appeared in such publications as Budget Travel and Newsweek. Pauline is the co-host of Frommer’s Travel Show. 

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“All the crowds gravitate towards the name-brand national parks, and even within those parks there’s a handful of famous hikes or viewpoints that everybody visits. With a little knowledge, creative thinking, and physical effort, you can have a wilderness experience that’s peaceful and beautiful — and you’d never know there were big crowds elsewhere in the park.” –James Kaiser

James Kaiser (@JamesKaiser_) has written bestselling travel guidebooks to a number of American national parks, including Acadia, Joshua Tree, the Grand Canyon, Zion, and Yosemite. He speaks about national parks at elementary schools around the United States, and he is also the author of Costa Rica: The Complete Guide.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and James talk about their early experiences in American national parks (2:30); how to find national parks in a given part of the country, and the rewards of visiting lesser-known parks (14:00); how James became a guidebook author, and the kind of research he does at national parks (20:15); strategies for visiting parks in the 21st century, new trends and developments, and the effects of over-visitation (29:00); how to avoid crowds in national parks and similar American wilderness areas (35:00); strategies the parks use to lessen the impact of visitors (42:00); using (and avoiding) smartphones in national parks, and how social media has affected visitation trends (46:00); the impact of international visitors on national parks (50:00); and why national parks are special, and how to best approach them for first-time visitors (55:30).

Notable links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00).

Links regarding the final months of the 1994 trip:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].