FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

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She won Badwater 135 in 2021. In 2023 she ran four 200-plus mile races in five months — Cocodona 250 first, then Tahoe, then Bigfoot two weeks after that, then won Moab 240 to cap the Grand Slam — despite getting blisters within the first few miles of Cocodona and spending much of that year in a level of physical discomfort she describes as the worst of her life. She's coming back for Cocodona in 2026 after a significant knee injury that had doctors telling her she was done with 200s. She found a surgeon who paused and said "but."

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Sally McRae — Yellow Runner, Badwater champion, Grand Slam finisher, author of Choose Strong, and the only guest in this series who described Cocodona 250 as "an eating contest from Phoenix to Flagstaff." Sally talks about what that 2023 Grand Slam actually felt like from the inside, why she's leaning into gratitude and away from pride heading into this year's race, and the thing she tells athletes who are in their darkest moments out there — think about the story you want to tell.

Her daughter is a runner at NAU. Sally is hoping she runs her into the finish line.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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EPISODE DESCRIPTION

She was almost on the U.S. Olympic ice hockey team. She got a scholarship to Princeton. She taught world history. Then she became a professional triathlete, won six Ironman triathlons, set the all-time fastest Ironman by an American woman, finished third at Kona, and retired from triathlon in 2022. Since then she has won Western States golden ticket races, finished seventh at Western States, taken fifth at CCC, and set the course record at the Unbound XL — a 350-mile gravel race.

This is her first 200-mile trail race.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Heather Jackson — six-time Ironman champion, professional ultrarunner, and someone who by her own admission goes out way too hard and blows up, and is hoping to not do that at Cocodona. Heather talks about what the transition from triathlon to trail actually looks like from the inside, how her husband manages her sponsors, films her YouTube channel, and sags her training runs on his mountain bike, and why she's genuinely terrified of this race in the best possible way. She's been watching the Cocodona live stream for five years and can't believe she gets to be on it.

Her five words are "holy shit I am scared." Her chalkboard message at Mingus is for her dogs Stevie and Frankie. If they're waiting for her, she'll get there faster.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Episode Title: Cocodona 250 Course Preview 2026

Kevin and Peter are back with their most-downloaded episode of the year — the Cocodona 250 Course Preview. With a combined ~5 finishes between them, the guys break down everything you need to know before toeing the line in Black Canyon City this May.

They cover all the meaningful 2026 course changes first: the new Watson Lake Aid Station (bring $5 cash for parking), the relocated Fain Ranch at Living Waters Church, the loss of crew access at Deer Pass (hello, 50K crew-less stretch), and the big pacer rule flip — you can now bring a pacer through Walnut Canyon, but the final 19 miles over Elden are solo. No pacers. Just you and the mountain.

Then it's a section-by-section breakdown of all 253 miles:

• Start to Crown King — 37 miles, 11K+ feet of gain, and one critical right turn you cannot miss
• Crown King to Whiskey Row — navigating the Bradshaws overnight through Camp Kippa and the Yankee Doodle Trail
• Whiskey Row to Mingus Mountain — crossing Prescott Valley, the Granite Dells, the Fain Ranch gopher field, and the big Mingus climb
• Mingus to Sedona — the most mentally draining stretch of the race, a junkyard descent out of Jerome, and a Verde River crossing
• The Hangover Trail — slick rock, big exposure, 40-minute miles, and somehow the most beautiful part of the course
• Schnebly Hill to Walnut Canyon — 51 miles deep in the race on the Coconino Plateau, Muns Park, Kelly Canyon, and the legendary Fort Tuthill
• Walnut Canyon to the Finish — the final solo push up Elden via the Newhart Trail and down the steep descent into Heritage Square

The guys also share details on the Distance to Empty ShakeOut Run (Sunday May 3rd, 2 PM at Deep Canyon Ranch), the Mingus Basketball Association three-shot challenge (live leaderboard, prizes from Mount to Coast, John G, and Ultraspire), and how to score some DTE swag out on course.

Whether you're racing, crewing, pacing, or just dreaming — this is the episode to prep with.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

In 2023 he showed up to Whiskey Row ten hours behind the leaders, told his crew he was still going to win and set the course record, and then did exactly that. In 2025 he herniated a disc and watched Kilian Korth take his Triple Crown records from his couch. He described it as a whirlwind of emotions. He went to therapy, read about the mind-body connection, and concluded his back hurt because he was trying too hard to win. He came back and immediately won the Arizona Monster 300 and set the course record.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Mike McKnight — the Dark McKnight, the King of 200s, the man who is very uncomfortable being called the King of 200s — for one of the most honest conversations in the series. Mike talks about why Cocodona is the one race he hasn't figured out despite winning it, how his mantra of "decide, don't hope" played out in real time at the Arizona Monster when second place closed a three-mile gap on him in the Tucson heat, and why he's working to get to the start line with genuine confidence rather than just telling himself he has it.

His chalkboard message at Mingus is "I want it that way." He is a Backstreet Boys fan. He is not embarrassed about this.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

They grew up in Italy, moved to New York City at 24, and now live in Prescott, Arizona — which means they will be one of the rare Cocodona 250 runners who passes through their own hometown during the race. They spent most of their life as a swimmer and volleyball player who genuinely hated running. Two and a half years ago, something clicked.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Fra Balbi; runner, community builder, and founder of TNBThrive, for one of the most meaningful conversations in the series. Fra talks about what it felt like to show up to Flagstaff Crest last year as the only nonbinary runner registered across all distances, why they ran with a sign that said "trans athletes belong everywhere," and what the finish line moment was that made them realize wanting it wasn't enough. They had to build something.

That something is TNBThrive; an organization working to make organized sport more accessible to trans and nonbinary people, starting with running. Fra talks about what they've learned from Trail Sisters and Native Women Running as models, what race directors can do right now to make races more welcoming, and why organized sport is one of the most powerful mental health interventions available to a community that is currently under sustained attack.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

She represented Great Britain in the marathon at the European Athletics Championships and the Commonwealth Games, then decided that wasn't hard enough. She ran UTMB, TDS, Comrades, and the Annapurna Circuit solo. Last year she ran 300 miles from Los Angeles to Las Vegas at The Speed Project and finished second among all solo women — partly through a heat wave, partly running out of water in the desert, partly navigating on her own with an RV that couldn't go off-road.

Now she's coming to Arizona for her first Cocodona 250.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Holly Stables, elite marathoner turned ultrarunner, co-founder of RushByNature, and co-host of the Running Won't Save You podcast, for a conversation about what happens when you can't go faster and start going further instead. Holly talks about the arc from running the same marathon time over and over again to eventually just wanting to do something completely different, what she learned navigating 300 miles of the American Southwest with almost no support, and what excites and terrifies her about a race that's actually organized, has aid stations, and goes somewhere on a marked course.

She's contractually obligated to play in the Mingus Basketball Association. It's in her sponsorship agreement. She knows this.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Last year she organized her entire race plan by fictional universe. It was Galaxy Quest to start, Dune through the desert, Game of Thrones when it was time to race. It ended up being pure Mad Max the whole way through.

She's back. This year the theme is Cocodona the Musical.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin sits down solo with Allison Powell — returning ultrarunner, storyteller, coach, Montana community builder, and Jeff Garmire's fiancée — for one of the most fun conversations in the series. Allison talks about what last year actually looked like out there when the weather came in and survival mode took over, why she's ditching the multi-universe structure this year in favor of one overarching theme of whimsy, and what it means to race the same 250-mile race as your partner while keeping everything completely separate — different crews, different bubbles, different tents the night before.

She also talks about the Montana chapter of Women in Ultrarunning, why she's running for Runners for Public Lands this year, and what getting more women to the start line of races like Cocodona actually requires.

Her chalkboard message at Mingus is about Air Bud. She has opposable thumbs. She can do this.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

She came to Cocodona 2024 burnt out on running, couldn't run in the two months leading up to the race, cross-trained her way to the start line, showed up with zero expectations, and finished on the podium. Then she signed up for the entire Triple Crown — Tahoe, Bigfoot, and Moab — and broke the women's record by 29 hours. She is back for Cocodona 2026, and for the first time she gets to actually arrive before the race starts.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Manuela Vilaseca — yoga teacher, Brazilian, Barcelona-based, and somehow one of the most decorated 200-mile runners in the world despite training on 20-kilometer runs and flying across three time zones to get to her races. Manu talks about what changed in her relationship with running — from obligation to opportunity — and what it feels like to come back to a race knowing you did it right the first time and still having plenty left to find. She talks about the sleep experiments she ran throughout the Triple Crown, what she's correcting this year, and why arriving a full week early feels like a genuine luxury.

She also has absolutely no confidence in her basketball game.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Kevin and Peter take the podcast out of the studio and onto the course for the first time, recording live during the Badwater Salton Sea race. In this experimental field episode, you'll hear clips captured throughout the race stitched together into a full audio journey. Back in the studio a few days post-finish, Kevin and Peter recap how they're recovering, tease some of the highlights (including a missed vomit recording), and preview what's coming up fast — Peter has the Cocodona 250 Brute just days away. They also cover the upcoming shakeout run at Deep Canyon Ranch, how to snag a free MBA shirt at Cocodona, and the Mets absolutely falling apart.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026!

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod

Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

He won the Showcase on The Price is Right. He survived 60 days alone across six extreme ecosystems in South America to win Discovery Channel's The Wheel, losing 45 pounds in the process. He ran 2,500 miles across America. He ran 1,050 miles across Great Britain. He broke Kilian Jornet's Tahoe Rim Trail record. He has never run Cocodona 250.

In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Adam Kimble: professional ultrarunner, motivational speaker, race director, coach, and by his own description, amateur survivalist, for one of the most varied origin stories in the series. Adam talks about crewing his athlete at Cocodona 2022, running through Prescott and Jerome and knowing immediately this race was going on the list, and what it actually takes to show up to something this long having spent his career doing things that have almost nothing in common with it.

He also reveals that as a high school basketball player he once finished second in a three-point shooting competition that sent him to the state level. The MBA at Mingus Mountain has never had a more dangerous entrant.

His five-word description of Cocodona 250 'a is beautiful tour of Arizona.' His chalkboard message is 'remember why you're here.' Both feel exactly right.

Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.