In this wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation, Bob Pulver sits down with Steve Levy — recruiting veteran, technologist, and self-proclaimed “truth-teller” — to explore how talent, technology, and transformation intersect in today’s world of work. From the early days of expert systems and green-screen mainframes to the complexities of generative AI, Steve brings a rare blend of historical context, critical thinking, and humor. Together, they tackle topics like the ethics of candidate AI, bias in hiring platforms, skills-based hiring, the need for AI literacy, and why every recruiter needs to be more curious — and more human. Steve also shares lessons from his decades as a lifeguard at Jones Beach, and how that role shaped his instincts for protecting and empowering people — a theme that carries through everything he does in talent acquisition.

Keywords

AI in recruiting, expert systems, generative AI, candidate experience, skills-based hiring, talent ethics, AI literacy, job applications, bias in hiring, strategic workforce planning, Jones Beach lifeguard, recruiting tech, AI governance, human-centered design, talent intelligence, responsible AI

Takeaways

AI isn't new — it's just louder now: Steve recalls early experiences with AI-like systems in the 1980s and draws parallels to today’s hype and fear cycles.

Recruiters need more curiosity, less fear: Avoiding AI won’t make it go away — recruiters must engage, experiment, and understand where AI fits.

The real problem? Poor inputs: Most job descriptions and resumes are terrible — AI can’t solve for that without better human collaboration.

Bias goes both ways: If employers can use AI to screen resumes, candidates can use it to write them — the key is transparency and integrity.

Quality of hire starts with better intake: Steve emphasizes the importance of understanding real business problems, not just scanning for keywords.

Candidate AI vs Employer AI: The current debate needs to move past gut reactions and toward practical, equitable frameworks.

We need new roles and metrics: From TA ethicists to agentic governance leads, the future workforce demands new capabilities.

Recruiting is about inclusion, not gatekeeping: Steve’s philosophy centers on humanizing the process and finding reasons to say “yes.”

Quotes

“If you can't audit it, don't automate it.”

“The real challenge is working to include someone rather than exclude them.”

“We're seeing artificial stupidity — not artificial intelligence.”

“Being afraid of the ocean because of sharks is like avoiding AI because of hallucinations. You’ve got to get in the water.”

“You can fight this, or you can plan for it. That’s it.”

“Most people don't write good resumes. Most recruiters don't write good job descriptions. AI's not going to save us from that.”

Chapters

00:00 – Opening & Reconnecting with Steve Levy

03:01 – Recruiting Before Computers & the Rise of Expert Systems

08:12 – What AI Is (and Isn’t): Fear, Hype & Progress

13:17 – Strategic TA in an Agentic Era

21:07 – AI Literacy, Education & Workforce Readiness

28:11 – Candidates Using AI vs. Employers Using AI

36:45 – Problems with Job Descriptions, Resumes & Gatekeeping

45:24 – Ethics, Transparency & Legal Implications in Hiring AI

54:10 – Talent Intelligence & Strategic Workforce Planning

1:05:33 – The SiriusXM Lawsuit & Candidate Frustration

1:15:57 – Lifeguard Lessons for the AI Age

1:20:12 – Final Thoughts on What Comes Next

Steve Levy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/levyrecruits

Steve’s Blog: https://recruitinginferno.com/

For advisory work and marketing inquiries:

Bob Pulver:⁠⁠ ⁠https://linkedin.com/in/bobpulver⁠⁠⁠

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