Tony was interviewed on the Marriage Thereoke podcast where Rich and Celeste Davis, from marriagelaboratory.com dive deep into the lyrics of Carly Simon's "You're So Vain," which leads to a discussion on narcissism. Then they welcome Tony to share thoughts on what to do if you're in a relationship with a narcissist, what the term "gaslighting" means, and he answers the question of where narcissism comes from. Then Rich re-writes the song from a therapists POV when a narcissist comes to couples therapy!