Are you truly being curious—or just trying to win the argument? Tony explores the difference between genuine curiosity and performative questions, sharing real-life examples and tools to help you respond with emotional maturity, not reactivity. Learn how curiosity can transform your relationships.

00:00 Introduction and Host Background

01:42 Understanding Performative vs. Genuine Curiosity

02:04 A Personal Story About Curiosity

08:50 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity in Relationships

19:10 Self-Regulation and Emotional Maturity

24:18 Promoting Genuine Curiosity in Parenting

26:17 The Role of Humility in Curiosity

29:41 Healthy Ego vs. Defensive Narcissism

35:03 The Neuroscience of Decision Making and Emotions

37:06 The Power of Slowing Down

37:36 Understanding Emotions: Primary, Secondary, and Instrumental

41:02 Exploring Anger in Relationships

42:48 Trusting Your Gut and Emotional Reasoning

45:41 Addressing Men's Emotional Immaturity

48:55 Real-Life Examples of Genuine Curiosity

53:42 Parenting with Curiosity

55:09 Curiosity in Marriage and Workplace

59:47 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Tools

01:02:15 Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation

01:05:20 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group.

And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. 

Marla Christensen, AMFT, APCC, and Tony Overbay, LMFT, delve into Ethan Kross's "Shift: Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You" for another installment of the "Virtual Couch Book Club." They explore emotional awareness, sensory shifts, and cultural influences on emotional well-being. Practical techniques, such as distant self-talk and the Whoop framework (Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan), are covered, offering listeners actionable strategies for emotional management. Tony opens the episode by explaining how common parental phrases, such as "it's not a big deal" or "just don't worry about it," can unintentionally hinder emotional expression in adulthood, setting the stage for struggles with managing emotions later in life. This discussion offers valuable insights for individuals seeking to understand better and manage their emotions.

00:00 A Touching Parenting Moment

02:22 Introduction to the Virtual Couch

02:31 Book Club: Managing Emotions

03:16 The Importance of Emotional Awareness

03:37 Understanding Emotional Language

04:44 The Disconnect from Emotions

06:01 Introducing Dr. Ethan Cross's 'Shift'

06:23 Meet Marla Christiansen

07:33 Exploring Emotional Concepts from 'Shift'

07:46 The Complexity of Emotions

08:05 Practical Tools for Emotional Management

08:20 The Power of Distanced Self-Talk

08:37 External Influences on Emotions

09:02 Body Awareness and Emotions

09:12 Navigating Difficult Emotions

09:24 Impact of Social Media and Cultural Factors

09:37 Appreciating Emotions as Information

10:18 Book Club Discussion: 'Shift' by Dr. Ethan Cross

10:30 Starting the Interview with Marla Christensen

11:24 Diving into Emotional Regulation

11:43 Book Club Insights and Personal Reflections

22:58 The Law of Least Work

25:01 Exploring Low-Cost Emotional Shifts

25:40 Understanding Attention and Perspective

26:10 Navigating Emotional Avoidance and Approach

27:27 The Power of Reframing

29:29 Distanced Self-Talk: A Unique Approach

31:07 Shifting Emotions Through Environment

33:44 The Role of Relationships in Emotional Shifts

37:24 Cultural Influences on Emotions

39:37 The Impact of Comparison

42:37 Practical Tools for Emotional Mastery

44:06 Final Thoughts and Resources

What if the very strategies that saved you as a child are now sabotaging your adult relationships?

In Part 2 of Tony's series on emotional immaturity, discover why your most persistent relationship struggles aren't character flaws—they're outdated survival software still running in the background of your life.

Through the powerful ACT metaphor of "The Man in the Hole," you'll understand why working harder with familiar emotional tools only digs you deeper into relationship problems. When someone offers you a ladder out of your patterns, why do you keep trying to dig with it instead? This episode reveals how to recognize when it's time to put down the shovel of old coping strategies and climb toward something completely different.

Meet the clients who've made this transformation: the chronic fixer who learned to ask "what do you need from me?" instead of immediately solving, the humor-deflector who shocked a room into silence by sharing something real, and the lifelong people-pleaser whose hands shook as she said "no" for the first time—and discovered her marriage actually got stronger.

You'll explore Terry Real's revolutionary insight that childhood adaptations become adult roadblocks, learn the art of re-parenting yourself with compassion instead of criticism, and discover why emotional maturity isn't about never falling into old patterns—it's about recognizing when you're there and having new tools to respond.

Whether you struggle with hypervigilance, perfectionism, control issues, or people-pleasing tendencies, this episode offers a shame-free framework for honoring your inner child's brilliant survival strategies while empowering your adult self to take the lead. Because growth isn't about eliminating your protective parts—it's about expanding your repertoire of responses and choosing consciously instead of reacting automatically.

Ready to stop digging and start climbing? Your ladder awaits.

00:00 Introduction and Recap

01:23 The Story of Tyler

03:53 Tyler's Realization and Therapy

09:39 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Metaphor

15:46 Revisiting Emotional Immaturity

19:30 Reparenting Yourself

25:05 Examples of Reparenting in Action

29:00 Exploring Emotional Immaturity Traits

40:54 Recognizing and Validating Emotions

42:47 Dependence on External Validation

48:54 Taking Ownership and Accountability

51:49 Mind Reading and Communication

01:03:55 Hypervigilance and Emotional Containment

01:07:12 Perfectionism and Control

01:11:49 Integration and Emotional Maturity

01:15:57 Real-Life Examples of Emotional Growth

01:22:05 The Journey of Emotional Maturity

Have you ever watched someone you care about repeatedly return to a relationship that's clearly hurting them, despite all logic and reason? Or found yourself unable to break free from a partner who alternates between cruel indifference and intoxicating affection?

Tony Overbay, LMFT, comprehensively examines all of the factors at play in hopes of shining a light on understanding and ultimately healing from one of psychology's most misunderstood phenomena: trauma bonding.

Tony explains how the same mechanisms that kept B.F. Skinner's rats frantically pressing a lever for unpredictable rewards are at work in toxic relationships. He explains the biological "amygdala hijack" that literally shuts down one's ability to think rationally when anxiety strikes and why well-meaning advice like "just don't worry about it" actually makes things worse through psychological reactance.

This comprehensive episode covers:

The neurological science behind trauma bonding and why it creates addiction-like withdrawal symptoms

How childhood experiences shape our relationship with emotions and set us up for unhealthy patterns

Why telling someone "don't think about it" guarantees they'll think about it more

The critical difference between guilt ("I did something bad") and shame ("I am bad")

Practical ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) techniques like expansion and mindfulness

The powerful Buddhist salt and water metaphor for managing emotional pain

Why no one—not even identical twins—experiences the world exactly as you do

How to break the cycle of seeking external validation that keeps you trapped

Whether you're personally experiencing a trauma bond, supporting someone who is, or simply want to understand why people stay in painful relationships, this episode provides compassionate insight and practical tools for healing. Tony's conversational style makes complex psychological concepts accessible while offering hope that with time, understanding, and the right support, you can reclaim your emotional autonomy and build healthier connections.

00:00 Introduction: The Impact of 'Say Anything'

01:21 Setting the Stage: Understanding Relationship Dynamics

01:50 Who This Episode is For

03:10 Introduction to Trauma Bonding

04:03 Welcome to the Virtual Couch

04:35 Engage with Us: Social Media and Upcoming Events

07:04 The Concept of Trauma Bonding

16:51 The Science Behind Trauma Bonding

21:25 Understanding the Amygdala Hijack

21:49 The Impact of Stress Hormones on the Brain

23:03 The Cycle of Trauma Bonding

24:21 The Ineffectiveness of Well-Meaning Advice

24:59 Psychological Reactance and the White Bear Effect

26:24 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)

28:18 The Concept of Expansion

30:05 Mindfulness and Changing Your Relationship with Thoughts

32:27 Guilt vs. Shame

34:11 Healing from Trauma Bonds

36:45 The Importance of Self-Validation

43:43 Seeking Support and Practicing Mindfulness

Do you avoid difficult conversations, hoping problems will magically disappear? Do you convince yourself you don’t need to write things down, because of course you’ll remember later? Or maybe you catch yourself trying to be everything to everyone… and slowly losing yourself in the process?

Join Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Tony Overbay and his daughter Mackie, a licensed esthetician, and cosmetologist, and host of the podcast “The Mind, the Mirror, and Me,” for a lively and insightful live Q&A. Together, they explore the sneaky ways magical thinking and emotional immaturity show up in our lives and relationships. From assuming people should “just know” what we want, to struggling with overthinking and honesty in relationships, this conversation dives deep (with plenty of humor and personal stories along the way).

You’ll also hear about:



• What “pick me” behavior really means and how it impacts relationships
• 
  
• How magical thinking keeps us stuck (and how to move forward)
• 
  
• Navigating diagnoses like borderline personality disorder and emotional immaturity
• 
  
• Why honesty in relationships isn’t as simple as “just say it”
• 
  
• Handling complicated family dynamics — including emotionally absent grandparents
• 
  
• Tools like mindfulness and ACT-based techniques to help you change your relationship with your thoughts
• 
  

Whether you're a therapist, a parent, or simply curious about emotional growth, this honest and relatable episode will leave you thinking differently about how you show up for yourself and others.

00:00 Introduction and Technical Difficulties

00:19 Foot Talk and Live Stream Banter

01:11 Licensed Therapist Q&A Begins

01:21 Understanding Narcissistic Traits

02:06 Exploring the 'Pick Me' Phenomenon

03:20 Therapy Insights: Finding Your True Self

05:40 Addressing Borderline Personality Disorder

14:05 Magical Thinking and Emotional Immaturity

26:08 Mindfulness and Thought Observation Techniques

27:02 The Concept of Changing Relationship with Thoughts

27:32 Discussion on Honesty in Relationships

31:16 Handling Family Dynamics and Expectations

33:54 Understanding Bipolar Disorder vs. Anger Issues

37:43 The Role of Thoughts, Behaviors, and Feelings

46:03 Freudian Theories and Emotional Maturity

50:39 Final Thoughts and Viewer Questions

Ever wondered why your brilliant mind can solve complex problems at work but completely breaks down during relationship conflicts? That's because those emotional reactions that feel so instinctive aren't flaws—they're actually genius survival strategies that once kept you safe. In this transformative episode, we explore how black-and-white thinking, mind-reading expectations, and external validation seeking were perfect childhood adaptations that have now become relationship roadblocks. Through the groundbreaking insight that behaviors which perfectly served us in childhood often become the very patterns that sabotage our adult relationships, you'll finally understand why you keep falling into familiar emotional patterns despite your best intentions.

This isn't just another episode about relationship struggles—it's a compassionate roadmap for emotional growth that honors both your wounded inner child and your emerging adult self. You'll discover how to recognize when you're in an emotional "hole" and why continuing to dig with familiar tools only takes you deeper. Most importantly, you'll learn how to pass the baton from your protective inner child to your capable adult self without shame or judgment. Whether you struggle with people-pleasing, emotional flooding, perfectionism, or control issues, this episode offers a strength-based approach to transform these patterns into mature responses that will revolutionize your relationships and bring a profound sense of internal peace.

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview

00:23 Listener Email: Mark's Story

01:41 Understanding Emotional Immaturity

04:47 Exploring the Emotional Maturity Spectrum

08:47 Introducing the Emotional Architects Group

09:29 Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs. Emotional Immaturity

11:08 Dinner with Daniel: A Narcissistic Narrative

15:47 Stages of Emotional Maturity

26:18 Childhood Behaviors in Adult Bodies

32:45 Understanding Emotional Blueprints

33:07 Re-parenting with Compassion

33:32 Therapeutic Insights from Fiction

34:23 Frozen Moments and Adult Relationships

35:16 Childhood Adaptations in Adult Life

36:17 Exploring Childlike Behaviors in Adults

36:57 Navigating Emotional Development

41:34 Black or White Thinking

44:43 Magical Thinking in Relationships

47:46 Emotional Reasoning and Codependency

52:32 External Validation and Accountability

55:41 Mind Reading and Projection

01:01:32 Pattern Recognition and Familiarity

01:07:12 Path Toward Emotional Maturity

01:07:52 Conclusion and Next Steps

Have you ever found yourself wondering, How can someone possibly believe that? Or maybe you've questioned your own beliefs after bumping up against someone else's certainty? You're not alone.

In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, dives into the complexities of perception, truth, and emotional maturity. He explores how individuals often encounter differing viewpoints—especially in today’s social media-driven world—and how those experiences can lead to frustration, confusion, and even self-doubt.

Using concepts like Umwelt and the importance of distinguishing between objective facts and subjective experiences, Tony offers insight into how each person’s unique background and personal history shape the way they see and move through the world.

Through personal stories and reflections, he emphasizes the power of curiosity, empathy, and openness in building real, meaningful connections. Tony also shares parts of his own professional and spiritual journey, including the impact of his faith crisis, and how discomfort can often become a catalyst for deep personal growth.

He reflects on the therapist-client relationship, unpacking the balance between professional boundaries and genuine emotional connection. And as always, Tony encourages listeners to embrace curiosity, hold healthy boundaries, and continue showing up as their most authentic selves.

00:00 Introduction: The Frustration of Misunderstanding

02:11 Exploring the Concept of 'Truth'

03:08 Host Introduction and Social Media Presence

04:21 Personal Story: Spinal Surgery Experience

05:26 Diving into the Topic of 'Truth' and Perception

07:15 The German Concept of Umwelt

12:22 Faith Journeys and Personal Perceptions

14:41 Emotional Maturity and Sense of Self

27:53 Job Interviews and Authenticity

32:13 Case Study: Spiritual Expectations

35:42 Thriving Without Sleep

35:52 The Faith Crisis Hits

35:59 Understanding the Pendulum Swing

36:15 Unique Faith Journeys

37:06 Embracing Personal Growth

37:25 The Beauty of Diverse Faith Outcomes

37:48 Navigating Faith Deconstruction

38:42 The Reframe: Moving Forward

38:53 Faith in Yourself and God

39:06 Riding Without Training Wheels

39:31 Respecting Different Journeys

40:04 The Hero's Journey

40:21 Helping Others Through Faith Crisis

40:56 Developing a Strong Sense of Self

41:29 Working with Faith Leaders

42:03 Emotional Immaturity in Faith Communities

42:41 The Power of Parables

43:14 Unspoken Pressures in Religious Settings

43:44 The Hypothetical Couple: Jack and Jill

45:59 Humanistic Therapy Principles

47:46 Intermittent Reinforcement and Trauma Bonding

48:58 The Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation

50:57 Separating Observations from Judgments

56:25 The Therapist's Emotional Journey

58:06 The Paradox of Therapy

01:02:11 Navigating Discomfort in Relationships

01:04:20 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement

Tony, a licensed marriage and family therapist, author, speaker, and podcast host, welcomes viewers to an engaging TikTok Live session. Joined by his daughter Mackie, Tony answers questions on various topics including relationships, mental health, and narcissism. They discuss the concept of the shadow self, the 'Let Them' theory, handling emotional triggers, and the importance of differentiation in relationships. Tony offers advice on dealing with controlling siblings, building clientele as a therapist, managing ADHD and its effects, and overcoming trust issues in relationships. They also touch on practical self-care tips and the journey of personal growth, using real-life examples and interactive discussions with their audience.

00:00 Welcome to TikTok Live

00:10 Introducing the Hosts

00:16 Engaging with Viewers

02:12 Discussing the Shadow Self

04:55 Exploring Family Dynamics

05:51 Romantic Relationships and Vulnerability

06:35 Understanding Emotional Reactions

08:07 Differentiation and Parental Influence

09:59 Setting Boundaries with Parents

10:47 The 'Let Them' Theory

15:20 Dealing with Emotional Regression

17:29 Navigating Breakups and Grief

20:43 Control and Mental Health

22:16 Book Recommendations for Couples

24:09 Making Small Changes for Big Impact

29:56 Managing Depression and Anxiety

31:43 Understanding and Accepting Anxiety

32:28 Facing Fears and Building Connections

33:43 Navigating Negative Environments

38:22 Inner Critic and Self-Acceptance

42:00 Challenges in Therapy and Relationships

01:01:59 Dealing with ADHD and Rejection Sensitivity

01:05:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

When Ashlee Boyson answered her door at age 28 to find detectives bearing unimaginable news—her husband murdered, an affair revealed—she became a widow with five children, including a six-week-old baby. In this powerful episode of the Virtual Couch, Tony Overbay, LMFT,  explores how this defining moment led Ashlee to become not just a survivor but a guide for others navigating grief's complex terrain. Her groundbreaking book "One Day: A Child's Journey Through Grief and Loss," illustrated by her daughter Bostyn, takes a revolutionary approach by deliberately omitting facial expressions and colors—creating space for authentic emotions rather than prescribing how one "should" feel when grieving.

Beyond the book, Tony and Ashlee dive into the messy truth of grief—how contradictory emotions can coexist, why well-intentioned comfort often invalidates emotional reality, and practical strategies for creating genuine healing. With moments of unexpected laughter amidst profound wisdom, they explore how Ashlee's journey led her to develop courses on infidelity and widowhood, practice foot zoning, and, most importantly, help parents understand that there's no "right way" to grieve. Whether you're personally experiencing loss or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers a masterclass in compassionate presence and emotional intelligence that transcends age, making it essential listening for anyone seeking to process grief authentically.

00:00 Introduction and Announcements

01:35 Introducing Ashley Boyson

02:10 Ashley's Incredible Story

03:27 Ashley's Journey Through Grief

03:54 Discussing Ashley's New Book

12:04 The Healing Power of Foot Zoning

17:40 The Importance of Emotional Awareness

26:35 Addressing Children's Emotional Pain

27:06 Recognizing and Validating Emotions

27:45 Personal Experiences with Suppressed Emotions

28:52 Navigating Grief and Loss

30:33 Complex Emotions and Healing

31:30 The Importance of Open Communication

32:25 Balancing Past and Future Fears

34:11 Encouraging Emotional Expression in Children

35:51 Handling Grief Triggers

43:45 The Role of Truth in Healing

46:21 Final Thoughts and Resources

What happens when two first responders fall in love, face career, life, and faith crises, and embark on a radical journey of healing? How do couples navigate from survival mode to genuine connection after years of chaos and trauma?

Tony welcomes Steph and Craig Salazar, the authentic couple behind the popular podcast "The Steph and Craig Show." What begins as a reunion of newfound friends quickly transforms into a profound exploration of relationship transformation, personal growth, and the messy beauty of healing together.

Steph and Craig share their remarkable journey from meeting as a police officer and dispatcher to becoming relationship content creators who are changing lives through radical vulnerability. They don't hold back as they discuss the chaos of their early relationship—blending families, career crises, mental health struggles, and the imbalanced dynamics that nearly tore them apart.

Listen as they reveal the pivotal moments that shifted their path: Craig's life-changing men's retreat that Steph secretly feared might end their relationship, Steph's breaking point in her dispatch career and her courageous pivot to follow her dreams, and how they both found healing through therapy, spiritual practices, and even psychedelic-assisted healing experiences.

This conversation isn't about relationship experts who have it all figured out. It's about two people who've "taken the scenic route" through life's challenges, hitting every obstacle along the way, and discovering that true connection happens when we heal individually first.

Whether you're facing relationship challenges, navigating career transitions, or doing your own healing work, this episode offers profound insights wrapped in genuine, heartfelt conversation. Steph and Craig's mission to create a mirror where others might see themselves and feel less alone in their struggles shines through every moment of this unforgettable discussion.

Join Tony, Steph, and Craig for a conversation that proves we're all healing together—one vulnerable step at a time. The Steph and Craig Show is available at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-steph-craig-show/id1742462702 or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as on YouTube. You can find the episode that Tony references on their show at https://youtu.be/n_LiTO_nt5w?si=GAmnZF3rFdh7QPFH 

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:07 Special Guests: Steph and Craig

01:49 The Transformative Podcast Episode

02:22 Authenticity and Vulnerability

03:35 The Journey of Steph and Craig

04:03 Career Transitions and Challenges

04:39 The Scenic Route to Healing

07:30 Magic and Connection

10:04 Meeting and Early Relationship

12:02 Navigating Careers and Personal Growth

22:28 Curiosity About Life Changes

23:32 Spiritual Awakening and Energy Healing

24:28 Journey with DreamPod and Financial Stability

25:44 Stephanie's Career Shift and Personal Growth

28:49 Balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies

33:19 Men's Retreat and Emotional Connection

44:12 Therapy and Healing Together

48:45 Current Focus and Future Plans

**Show Notes:**

- How Steph and Craig met in law enforcement and blended their families

- The career crisis that sent Craig into depression and changed their trajectory

- Why Steph thought sending Craig to a men's retreat might mean the end of their relationship

- Their journey through energy healing, spiritual awakening, and finding authentic connection

- How individual healing created the foundation for relationship transformation

- The role of therapy, MDMA-assisted healing, and psychedelics in their growth

- Their transition from couples coaching to content creation focused on vulnerability

- Tony's reflections on masculine/feminine energy and the burdens in relationships

**Keywords:** relationship transformation, healing, vulnerability, law enforcement trauma, men's work, couples therapy, psychedelic healing, content creation, authentic connection