Have you ever watched someone you care about repeatedly return to a relationship that's clearly hurting them, despite all logic and reason? Or found yourself unable to break free from a partner who alternates between cruel indifference and intoxicating affection?

Tony Overbay, LMFT, comprehensively examines all of the factors at play in hopes of shining a light on understanding and ultimately healing from one of psychology's most misunderstood phenomena: trauma bonding.

Tony explains how the same mechanisms that kept B.F. Skinner's rats frantically pressing a lever for unpredictable rewards are at work in toxic relationships. He explains the biological "amygdala hijack" that literally shuts down one's ability to think rationally when anxiety strikes and why well-meaning advice like "just don't worry about it" actually makes things worse through psychological reactance.

This comprehensive episode covers:

The neurological science behind trauma bonding and why it creates addiction-like withdrawal symptoms

How childhood experiences shape our relationship with emotions and set us up for unhealthy patterns

Why telling someone "don't think about it" guarantees they'll think about it more

The critical difference between guilt ("I did something bad") and shame ("I am bad")

Practical ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) techniques like expansion and mindfulness

The powerful Buddhist salt and water metaphor for managing emotional pain

Why no one—not even identical twins—experiences the world exactly as you do

How to break the cycle of seeking external validation that keeps you trapped

Whether you're personally experiencing a trauma bond, supporting someone who is, or simply want to understand why people stay in painful relationships, this episode provides compassionate insight and practical tools for healing. Tony's conversational style makes complex psychological concepts accessible while offering hope that with time, understanding, and the right support, you can reclaim your emotional autonomy and build healthier connections.

00:00 Introduction: The Impact of 'Say Anything'

01:21 Setting the Stage: Understanding Relationship Dynamics

01:50 Who This Episode is For

03:10 Introduction to Trauma Bonding

04:03 Welcome to the Virtual Couch

04:35 Engage with Us: Social Media and Upcoming Events

07:04 The Concept of Trauma Bonding

16:51 The Science Behind Trauma Bonding

21:25 Understanding the Amygdala Hijack

21:49 The Impact of Stress Hormones on the Brain

23:03 The Cycle of Trauma Bonding

24:21 The Ineffectiveness of Well-Meaning Advice

24:59 Psychological Reactance and the White Bear Effect

26:24 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)

28:18 The Concept of Expansion

30:05 Mindfulness and Changing Your Relationship with Thoughts

32:27 Guilt vs. Shame

34:11 Healing from Trauma Bonds

36:45 The Importance of Self-Validation

43:43 Seeking Support and Practicing Mindfulness

Do you avoid difficult conversations, hoping problems will magically disappear? Do you convince yourself you don’t need to write things down, because of course you’ll remember later? Or maybe you catch yourself trying to be everything to everyone… and slowly losing yourself in the process?

Join Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Tony Overbay and his daughter Mackie, a licensed esthetician, and cosmetologist, and host of the podcast “The Mind, the Mirror, and Me,” for a lively and insightful live Q&A. Together, they explore the sneaky ways magical thinking and emotional immaturity show up in our lives and relationships. From assuming people should “just know” what we want, to struggling with overthinking and honesty in relationships, this conversation dives deep (with plenty of humor and personal stories along the way).

You’ll also hear about:



• What “pick me” behavior really means and how it impacts relationships
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• How magical thinking keeps us stuck (and how to move forward)
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• Navigating diagnoses like borderline personality disorder and emotional immaturity
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• Why honesty in relationships isn’t as simple as “just say it”
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• Handling complicated family dynamics — including emotionally absent grandparents
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• Tools like mindfulness and ACT-based techniques to help you change your relationship with your thoughts
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Whether you're a therapist, a parent, or simply curious about emotional growth, this honest and relatable episode will leave you thinking differently about how you show up for yourself and others.

00:00 Introduction and Technical Difficulties

00:19 Foot Talk and Live Stream Banter

01:11 Licensed Therapist Q&A Begins

01:21 Understanding Narcissistic Traits

02:06 Exploring the 'Pick Me' Phenomenon

03:20 Therapy Insights: Finding Your True Self

05:40 Addressing Borderline Personality Disorder

14:05 Magical Thinking and Emotional Immaturity

26:08 Mindfulness and Thought Observation Techniques

27:02 The Concept of Changing Relationship with Thoughts

27:32 Discussion on Honesty in Relationships

31:16 Handling Family Dynamics and Expectations

33:54 Understanding Bipolar Disorder vs. Anger Issues

37:43 The Role of Thoughts, Behaviors, and Feelings

46:03 Freudian Theories and Emotional Maturity

50:39 Final Thoughts and Viewer Questions

Ever wondered why your brilliant mind can solve complex problems at work but completely breaks down during relationship conflicts? That's because those emotional reactions that feel so instinctive aren't flaws—they're actually genius survival strategies that once kept you safe. In this transformative episode, we explore how black-and-white thinking, mind-reading expectations, and external validation seeking were perfect childhood adaptations that have now become relationship roadblocks. Through the groundbreaking insight that behaviors which perfectly served us in childhood often become the very patterns that sabotage our adult relationships, you'll finally understand why you keep falling into familiar emotional patterns despite your best intentions.

This isn't just another episode about relationship struggles—it's a compassionate roadmap for emotional growth that honors both your wounded inner child and your emerging adult self. You'll discover how to recognize when you're in an emotional "hole" and why continuing to dig with familiar tools only takes you deeper. Most importantly, you'll learn how to pass the baton from your protective inner child to your capable adult self without shame or judgment. Whether you struggle with people-pleasing, emotional flooding, perfectionism, or control issues, this episode offers a strength-based approach to transform these patterns into mature responses that will revolutionize your relationships and bring a profound sense of internal peace.

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview

00:23 Listener Email: Mark's Story

01:41 Understanding Emotional Immaturity

04:47 Exploring the Emotional Maturity Spectrum

08:47 Introducing the Emotional Architects Group

09:29 Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs. Emotional Immaturity

11:08 Dinner with Daniel: A Narcissistic Narrative

15:47 Stages of Emotional Maturity

26:18 Childhood Behaviors in Adult Bodies

32:45 Understanding Emotional Blueprints

33:07 Re-parenting with Compassion

33:32 Therapeutic Insights from Fiction

34:23 Frozen Moments and Adult Relationships

35:16 Childhood Adaptations in Adult Life

36:17 Exploring Childlike Behaviors in Adults

36:57 Navigating Emotional Development

41:34 Black or White Thinking

44:43 Magical Thinking in Relationships

47:46 Emotional Reasoning and Codependency

52:32 External Validation and Accountability

55:41 Mind Reading and Projection

01:01:32 Pattern Recognition and Familiarity

01:07:12 Path Toward Emotional Maturity

01:07:52 Conclusion and Next Steps

Have you ever found yourself wondering, How can someone possibly believe that? Or maybe you've questioned your own beliefs after bumping up against someone else's certainty? You're not alone.

In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, dives into the complexities of perception, truth, and emotional maturity. He explores how individuals often encounter differing viewpoints—especially in today’s social media-driven world—and how those experiences can lead to frustration, confusion, and even self-doubt.

Using concepts like Umwelt and the importance of distinguishing between objective facts and subjective experiences, Tony offers insight into how each person’s unique background and personal history shape the way they see and move through the world.

Through personal stories and reflections, he emphasizes the power of curiosity, empathy, and openness in building real, meaningful connections. Tony also shares parts of his own professional and spiritual journey, including the impact of his faith crisis, and how discomfort can often become a catalyst for deep personal growth.

He reflects on the therapist-client relationship, unpacking the balance between professional boundaries and genuine emotional connection. And as always, Tony encourages listeners to embrace curiosity, hold healthy boundaries, and continue showing up as their most authentic selves.

00:00 Introduction: The Frustration of Misunderstanding

02:11 Exploring the Concept of 'Truth'

03:08 Host Introduction and Social Media Presence

04:21 Personal Story: Spinal Surgery Experience

05:26 Diving into the Topic of 'Truth' and Perception

07:15 The German Concept of Umwelt

12:22 Faith Journeys and Personal Perceptions

14:41 Emotional Maturity and Sense of Self

27:53 Job Interviews and Authenticity

32:13 Case Study: Spiritual Expectations

35:42 Thriving Without Sleep

35:52 The Faith Crisis Hits

35:59 Understanding the Pendulum Swing

36:15 Unique Faith Journeys

37:06 Embracing Personal Growth

37:25 The Beauty of Diverse Faith Outcomes

37:48 Navigating Faith Deconstruction

38:42 The Reframe: Moving Forward

38:53 Faith in Yourself and God

39:06 Riding Without Training Wheels

39:31 Respecting Different Journeys

40:04 The Hero's Journey

40:21 Helping Others Through Faith Crisis

40:56 Developing a Strong Sense of Self

41:29 Working with Faith Leaders

42:03 Emotional Immaturity in Faith Communities

42:41 The Power of Parables

43:14 Unspoken Pressures in Religious Settings

43:44 The Hypothetical Couple: Jack and Jill

45:59 Humanistic Therapy Principles

47:46 Intermittent Reinforcement and Trauma Bonding

48:58 The Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation

50:57 Separating Observations from Judgments

56:25 The Therapist's Emotional Journey

58:06 The Paradox of Therapy

01:02:11 Navigating Discomfort in Relationships

01:04:20 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement

Tony, a licensed marriage and family therapist, author, speaker, and podcast host, welcomes viewers to an engaging TikTok Live session. Joined by his daughter Mackie, Tony answers questions on various topics including relationships, mental health, and narcissism. They discuss the concept of the shadow self, the 'Let Them' theory, handling emotional triggers, and the importance of differentiation in relationships. Tony offers advice on dealing with controlling siblings, building clientele as a therapist, managing ADHD and its effects, and overcoming trust issues in relationships. They also touch on practical self-care tips and the journey of personal growth, using real-life examples and interactive discussions with their audience.

00:00 Welcome to TikTok Live

00:10 Introducing the Hosts

00:16 Engaging with Viewers

02:12 Discussing the Shadow Self

04:55 Exploring Family Dynamics

05:51 Romantic Relationships and Vulnerability

06:35 Understanding Emotional Reactions

08:07 Differentiation and Parental Influence

09:59 Setting Boundaries with Parents

10:47 The 'Let Them' Theory

15:20 Dealing with Emotional Regression

17:29 Navigating Breakups and Grief

20:43 Control and Mental Health

22:16 Book Recommendations for Couples

24:09 Making Small Changes for Big Impact

29:56 Managing Depression and Anxiety

31:43 Understanding and Accepting Anxiety

32:28 Facing Fears and Building Connections

33:43 Navigating Negative Environments

38:22 Inner Critic and Self-Acceptance

42:00 Challenges in Therapy and Relationships

01:01:59 Dealing with ADHD and Rejection Sensitivity

01:05:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

When Ashlee Boyson answered her door at age 28 to find detectives bearing unimaginable news—her husband murdered, an affair revealed—she became a widow with five children, including a six-week-old baby. In this powerful episode of the Virtual Couch, Tony Overbay, LMFT,  explores how this defining moment led Ashlee to become not just a survivor but a guide for others navigating grief's complex terrain. Her groundbreaking book "One Day: A Child's Journey Through Grief and Loss," illustrated by her daughter Bostyn, takes a revolutionary approach by deliberately omitting facial expressions and colors—creating space for authentic emotions rather than prescribing how one "should" feel when grieving.

Beyond the book, Tony and Ashlee dive into the messy truth of grief—how contradictory emotions can coexist, why well-intentioned comfort often invalidates emotional reality, and practical strategies for creating genuine healing. With moments of unexpected laughter amidst profound wisdom, they explore how Ashlee's journey led her to develop courses on infidelity and widowhood, practice foot zoning, and, most importantly, help parents understand that there's no "right way" to grieve. Whether you're personally experiencing loss or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers a masterclass in compassionate presence and emotional intelligence that transcends age, making it essential listening for anyone seeking to process grief authentically.

00:00 Introduction and Announcements

01:35 Introducing Ashley Boyson

02:10 Ashley's Incredible Story

03:27 Ashley's Journey Through Grief

03:54 Discussing Ashley's New Book

12:04 The Healing Power of Foot Zoning

17:40 The Importance of Emotional Awareness

26:35 Addressing Children's Emotional Pain

27:06 Recognizing and Validating Emotions

27:45 Personal Experiences with Suppressed Emotions

28:52 Navigating Grief and Loss

30:33 Complex Emotions and Healing

31:30 The Importance of Open Communication

32:25 Balancing Past and Future Fears

34:11 Encouraging Emotional Expression in Children

35:51 Handling Grief Triggers

43:45 The Role of Truth in Healing

46:21 Final Thoughts and Resources

What happens when two first responders fall in love, face career, life, and faith crises, and embark on a radical journey of healing? How do couples navigate from survival mode to genuine connection after years of chaos and trauma?

Tony welcomes Steph and Craig Salazar, the authentic couple behind the popular podcast "The Steph and Craig Show." What begins as a reunion of newfound friends quickly transforms into a profound exploration of relationship transformation, personal growth, and the messy beauty of healing together.

Steph and Craig share their remarkable journey from meeting as a police officer and dispatcher to becoming relationship content creators who are changing lives through radical vulnerability. They don't hold back as they discuss the chaos of their early relationship—blending families, career crises, mental health struggles, and the imbalanced dynamics that nearly tore them apart.

Listen as they reveal the pivotal moments that shifted their path: Craig's life-changing men's retreat that Steph secretly feared might end their relationship, Steph's breaking point in her dispatch career and her courageous pivot to follow her dreams, and how they both found healing through therapy, spiritual practices, and even psychedelic-assisted healing experiences.

This conversation isn't about relationship experts who have it all figured out. It's about two people who've "taken the scenic route" through life's challenges, hitting every obstacle along the way, and discovering that true connection happens when we heal individually first.

Whether you're facing relationship challenges, navigating career transitions, or doing your own healing work, this episode offers profound insights wrapped in genuine, heartfelt conversation. Steph and Craig's mission to create a mirror where others might see themselves and feel less alone in their struggles shines through every moment of this unforgettable discussion.

Join Tony, Steph, and Craig for a conversation that proves we're all healing together—one vulnerable step at a time. The Steph and Craig Show is available at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-steph-craig-show/id1742462702 or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as on YouTube. You can find the episode that Tony references on their show at https://youtu.be/n_LiTO_nt5w?si=GAmnZF3rFdh7QPFH 

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:07 Special Guests: Steph and Craig

01:49 The Transformative Podcast Episode

02:22 Authenticity and Vulnerability

03:35 The Journey of Steph and Craig

04:03 Career Transitions and Challenges

04:39 The Scenic Route to Healing

07:30 Magic and Connection

10:04 Meeting and Early Relationship

12:02 Navigating Careers and Personal Growth

22:28 Curiosity About Life Changes

23:32 Spiritual Awakening and Energy Healing

24:28 Journey with DreamPod and Financial Stability

25:44 Stephanie's Career Shift and Personal Growth

28:49 Balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies

33:19 Men's Retreat and Emotional Connection

44:12 Therapy and Healing Together

48:45 Current Focus and Future Plans

**Show Notes:**

- How Steph and Craig met in law enforcement and blended their families

- The career crisis that sent Craig into depression and changed their trajectory

- Why Steph thought sending Craig to a men's retreat might mean the end of their relationship

- Their journey through energy healing, spiritual awakening, and finding authentic connection

- How individual healing created the foundation for relationship transformation

- The role of therapy, MDMA-assisted healing, and psychedelics in their growth

- Their transition from couples coaching to content creation focused on vulnerability

- Tony's reflections on masculine/feminine energy and the burdens in relationships

**Keywords:** relationship transformation, healing, vulnerability, law enforcement trauma, men's work, couples therapy, psychedelic healing, content creation, authentic connection

Every couple starts their marriage journey with hearts full of hope and eyes bright with optimism. But what happens when the fairy tale meets reality? In this compelling episode of the Virtual Couch, marriage therapist Tony Overbay takes listeners on an intimate journey through the evolution of marriage, sparked by his observation of a young newlywed couple, Hannah and Cody, during a recent podcast interview.

Drawing from over 20 years of experience as a marriage therapist, Tony bridges the gap between those magical early days and the complex reality that many couples face years into their marriage. He addresses the common refrain of "just wait until..." that many newlyweds hear, while offering hope and practical tools for couples at all stages of their relationship.

Key insights include:

- The power of intentional curiosity in long-term relationships

- Why emotional maturity matters more than initial chemistry

- The critical balance between self-care and partner care

- How to maintain individual growth while nurturing your relationship

- The four pillars of connected conversation that can transform your communication

Tony shares vulnerable moments from his own 34-year marriage journey, demonstrating how the principles he teaches aren't just theoretical—they're battle-tested. He tackles the delicate balance between maintaining individual identity and building a strong partnership, offering practical insights for both newlyweds and seasoned couples.

Whether you're basking in newlywed bliss like Hannah and Cody or navigating the complexities of a decades-long partnership, this episode provides a roadmap for understanding how to evolve together while maintaining the spark that brought you together in the first place. Tony's unique perspective helps couples understand that while change is inevitable in marriage, it doesn't have to mean growing apart—it can mean growing together in new and deeper ways.

This episode is essential listening for:

- Newlywed couples wanting to build a strong foundation

- Long-term couples seeking to reconnect or deepen their bond

- Anyone curious about the real journey from romantic love to lasting partnership

- Couples wanting practical tools for better communication and understanding

Join Tony as he unpacks these insights and more, offering both hope and practical strategies for couples at any stage of their marriage journey.

Follow the Q&A Files Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1k2Oh4rY9VCp1tVeu14dxk?si=a39537613900475b Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-q-a-files/id1730736061 or wherever you listen to podcasts. 

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

01:52 Reflecting on Marriage and Personal Experiences

03:42 The Importance of Communication in Relationships

05:42 Premarital and Newlywed Counseling Insights

06:59 Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation

11:15 Navigating Discomfort and Growth in Relationships

19:52 Intentionality and Integrity in Commitments

23:22 Embracing Change and Curiosity in Marriage

25:49 Expressing Authenticity

26:00 Navigating Online Dating

28:01 The Game of Emotional Immaturity

28:44 The Challenge of Authenticity in Dating

30:07 Saying 'I Love You'

32:38 Psychological Flexibility in Relationships

39:06 The Importance of Self-Care

42:56 Boundaries and Pathological Kindness

45:07 Choosing Love Daily

46:53 Conclusion and Future Topics

What happens when you walk face-first into a wall at the movies? For therapist Tony Overbay, it led to a deep discussion about relationships, self-worth, and the challenges of being true to yourself in a world that often demands conformity.

In this engaging episode of The Virtual Couch, Tony is joined by his daughter Mackie for their regular Sunday night Q&A session. After sharing a humorous story about his movie theater mishap (complete with butterfly stitches), they dive into profound conversations about relationships, mental health, and personal growth.

The episode explores the concept of "normal" versus "pathological" narcissism, with Tony breaking down Eleanor Greenberg's research on how healthy ego differs from defensive narcissism. They discuss how true confidence comes from actual accomplishments rather than a fragile facade of superiority.

A significant portion focuses on the challenges of maintaining authenticity in relationships, particularly when dealing with emotional immaturity. Tony explains how many people lose themselves trying to make others happy, and the importance of choosing self-care first - not as an act of selfishness, but as a necessary foundation for genuine connection.

The father-daughter duo tackles numerous listener questions, covering topics like:

- Setting healthy boundaries versus giving ultimatums

- The impact of being a "scapegoat" in family dynamics

- Dealing with betrayal trauma and infidelity

- The struggles of highly sensitive people (HSP)

- Navigating relationships with emotionally immature partners

- The challenges of being authentically yourself in a society that often rewards conformity

Throughout the episode, Tony emphasizes the importance of differentiation - developing a strong but flexible sense of self while maintaining connections with others. He provides practical advice for listeners struggling with various relationship challenges, including resources for finding affordable therapy and support groups for those dealing with emotionally immature partners.

The conversation weaves together clinical insights with personal experiences, creating an authentic and relatable dialogue that helps listeners understand they're not alone in their struggles. Tony and Mackie's natural rapport adds warmth and accessibility to complex therapeutic concepts, making them more digestible for a general audience.

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene

01:06 Super Bowl and Halftime Show Reactions

02:30 Movie Theater Mishap and Story Time

07:10 Relationship Dynamics and Self-Care

11:47 Understanding Narcissism and Healthy Ego

17:34 Questions from the Audience

41:14 Navigating the Online Dating World

41:50 The Struggle of Authenticity in Relationships

43:20 The Journey of Emotional Growth

47:22 Dealing with Narcissistic Relationships

53:54 The Importance of Setting Boundaries

01:11:12 Overcoming Trauma and Seeking Therapy

01:14:15 Confronting Relationship Challenges

01:19:59 Final Thoughts and Resources

Tony welcomes sisters Sarah Bailey and Karla Cragg, who share a passion for enhancing the social lives of individuals with autism. They introduce their Breaking Social Barriers PEERS program, an evidence-based social skills training course designed specifically for young adults on the autism spectrum. Their program is based on UCLA’s acclaimed PEERS treatment model, the only research-backed method proven to help young adults with autism form and maintain meaningful friendships.

Sarah and Karla provide an inside look at their curriculum, which offers practical strategies for entering, maintaining, and exiting conversations—along with other essential social skills that set individuals up for success. They emphasize the importance of honoring autistic individuals' authenticity while equipping them with the social tools they may need.

The conversation also explores key topics such as the differences between autism and highly sensitive person (HSP) traits, the impact of diagnosis and labeling, and the increasing demand for targeted social skills training.

Tune in to discover how Sarah and Karla’s approach is making a profound difference in the lives of autistic individuals—whether formally diagnosed or self-identified.

Learn more about their evidence-based programs at BreakingSocialBarriers.com.

00:00 Welcome to the Virtual Couch

01:11 Diving into Autism Awareness

02:22 Carla's Journey into Autism Education

05:31 Introducing the Peers Program

08:27 Navigating Social Skills for Young Adults

12:44 Understanding Autism and Neurodiversity

20:43 Navigating Social Interactions with High Functioning Autism

21:27 Teaching the Art of Trading Information

23:30 The Importance of Evidence-Based Social Skills Programs

25:18 Addressing Loneliness and Social Isolation

26:24 Course Structure and Content

29:43 Role Playing and Practical Applications

35:56 Enhancing Authentic Social Interactions

38:29 Conclusion and Contact Information