January 03, 2025

Episode 36: When Leaving Isn't an Option with Dr. Kerry McAvoy

57 minutes

Leaving a narcissistic abusive relationship might seem like the obvious choice, but for many, it’s far from simple. Sometimes, people can’t ‘just leave.’ In this episode, Dr. Z sits down with author and mental health clinician, Dr. Kerry McAvoy, to explore why leaving isn’t always an option—and what to do when staying is your current reality.

As a survivor of narcissistic abuse herself, Dr. McAvoy explains the enmeshed dynamics and unique behavior patterns—such as intermittent reinforcement—that keep people emotionally and psychologically tied to their abusers. She points out the importance of self-discovery, the development of internal boundaries, and reclaiming a sense of self as critical steps toward healing. The discussion also addresses the shame often felt by those who return to abusive partners and the practical barriers, such as financial dependence, that can prevent someone from leaving.

Whether you're navigating life within a narcissistic abusive relationship or looking for tools to rebuild after leaving, this episode offers insights and strategies to help you protect your peace and reclaim your identity.

Quotes

"Leaving is really the best way to re-regulate the traumatized nervous system and also for the person to have enough space for them to emotionally detach and start to heal." (03:22| Dr. Kerry McAvoy)

“I heard from Dr. Ramani, and it resonated powerfully with me. And it hit me. It was like a punch. I felt like a punch. She said, to say that somebody should leave is actually a privilege. And not everybody has the privilege of leaving.” (14:54 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)

"I think the first thing is to recognize that you've lost yourself and it has become submerged and enmeshed with this other person because the other person wants that." (19:05 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)

"You're going to have to navigate that yourself because it's a fine line. You're going to have to walk between compromising yourself, which is in self-betrayal versus protecting yourself but putting yourself at risk in the relationship for further abuse." (42:47 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)

“I really like this analogy, it’s that boundaries are a red flag to a bull and the narcissist is going to run at them.” (43:50 | Dr. Kerry McAvoy)

Links

Connect with Dr. Kerry McAvoy:

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kerrymcavoyphd

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kerrymcavoyphd/

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLQyhjWUzWrBfoQlC5ZotQ

TIKTOK: https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdjuTrnV/

Group Coaching programs: Healing Strong for surviving healing and recovering from narcissistic abuse https://kerrymcavoyphd.com/healing-strong/

Connect with Dr. Z:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Order my workbooks! *Find Your Calm / Find Good Habits* http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

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By Dr. Jaime Zuckerman

4.8

5454 ratings