Emma Dabiri is an Irish writer, academic and broadcaster - and an expert on race.  Born to a Nigerian dad and an Irish mum, Emma experienced extremely different environments growing up: first in a predominantly black area of America and then moving to Southern Ireland where she found herself in the opposite - a very white and racist society.  

She remembered how a bookshop in Dublin was her sanctuary and saviour as a child. It turned out it was a radical bookshop - and we agreed that books can provide a quiet rebellion when you're growing up.

Emma has two little boys and currently lives in Margate where she takes advantage of regular sea swimming.  

She has written two books 'Don't Touch My Hair' and 'What White People Should Do Next', with her third book just about to be published when we chatted. Emma's writing looks at the concept of race and how the concept of black and white has been constructed in fairly recent history, plus she sometimes shares her own experiences of racism. 

We also talked about the Black Lives Matter campaign and assessed how much has changed since the death of George Floyd.

Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones

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