In this episode of We Need To Talk, Grammy Award-winning artist Estelle joins Paul for an unfiltered conversation about music, identity, and the power of self-belief.

From growing up in West London to becoming the first artist to be signed by John Legend, Estelle shares the resilience it took to break into the music industry - and the self-trust she had to develop along the way.

She tells the incredible story of how a chance encounter with Kanye West in a chicken shop led to the global smash hit American Boy. Estelle reflects on the personal losses that shaped her, the industry rejection she pushed through, and how she’s finally learned to trust her voice - both in music and in life.

This is the real story behind American Boy - and so much more.

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(00:00) Intro 

(01:50) Estelle's Childhood in Hammersmith 

(04:40) What Values Did Estelle's Grandmother Instill in Her? 

(06:22) Estelle's Family 

(07:37) How Estelle's Parents Met 

(09:04) Estelle's Relationship with Her Father 

(10:09) How Did Estelle's Parents' Split Affect Her? 

(11:22) Estelle's Experience of School 

(15:28) The Beginning of Estelle's Career in Music 

(27:31) The Differences Between Hip Hop and R&B in the USA vs. UK in the Early 2000s 

(29:43) Estelle's Experience in the British Music Industry as a Black Female Artist 

(35:53) How Estelle Met Kanye West and John Legend 

(44:10) Shopify Ad 

(45:21) Tinder Ad 

(46:16) How Estelle Wrote 'American Boy' 

(51:26) The Legacy of 'American Boy' 

(54:53) Paul’s Favourite Estelle Songs 

(56:48) When Did Estelle Feel Like She Was 'Losing It' During Her Career? 

(1:03:43) How Did Estelle Learn to Trust Herself? 

(1:06:44) Estelle's Relationship History 

(1:15:59) Is Estelle Interested in Being a Mother? 

(1:16:57) The Impact of Estelle's Grandmother's Death 

(1:21:51) Estelle's Spiritual Beliefs 

(1:22:46) Estelle's Role in 'Steven Universe' 

(1:26:30) Why Is Allyship So Important to Estelle? 

(1:28:53) Paul Tells a Crazy Story About Estelle 

(1:31:03) One of Estelle's Wildest Moments During Her Career 

(1:33:07) Happiest Moment of Estelle's Career 

(1:34:49) Estelle's New EP 'New Direction' 

(1:37:35) Paul, De La Soul and Estelle's Feature on 'Memories Of' 

(1:40:24) Estelle's Forthcoming Book 

(1:42:37) Most Memorable Conversation 

(1:46:18) Paul's Takeaways 

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