To contact our guest directly, go to: www.earthwalks.org or e-mail Doug: [email protected]

Earthwalks, Geomancy, Ecotourism, Indigenous Cultures, Chaco Canyon, Land Acknowledgment, Nature Connection, Community Engagement, Spiritual Wisdom, Environmental Education

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Doug Conwell, founder of Earthwalks, shares his journey to Santa Fe, his connection to the earth, and the principles of geomancy. He discusses the importance of ecotourism, the mysteries of Chaco Canyon, and the significance of land acknowledgment in addressing social injustices. Doug also highlights upcoming workshops and the essence of giving back to the community through service and respect for indigenous cultures.

Takeaways

Doug Conwell emphasizes the importance of connecting with the earth.

Sound Bites

“You have to desire.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Earthwalks and Community Engagement

Sam Berne (00:00.248)

And I really want to give thanks to the Tehuah people and Carah’s people on whose land that we are living and where we’re working right now, which is called Santa Fe, New Mexico now. And I want to read the acknowledgement that I make on my website for that. Acknowledging the deep connections of indigenous peoples to the land and their significant contributions of past, present, and future.

In acknowledging these connections, we express our gratitude for the opportunity to live, work, and learn on this land. And I have to say that Earthwalks is committed to helping reconcile the injustices, restoring voices, and realizing the well-being of all members of our community, and especially those whose land this really was, the first peoples who were here. So yes.

Where do we go from here? Well, tell us a little bit about how you came to Santa Fe, where you came from and what inspired you to move here. Well, guess I was it was almost 50 years ago. It’s hard to believe, but in 1979, I kind of heard a calling. I was living in Colorado, my home state, Sam, and I was feeling disconnection from the earth, from myself. I didn’t feel like I had any real

connection to my own family or history. And I used to live on the border in El Paso when I would come through Santa Fe and back and forth from Colorado and always loved this area, this part of the world, New Mexico. And I thought, well, I’m going to try this out. I’m going to, I’m going to live in Santa Fe and see. I was hearing in my head and also reading and finding out more about indigenous traditional cultures and their spiritual wisdom.

Sam Berne (02:27.6)

I learned something about…

globally in cultures around the world called geomancy which deals with earth energies and has to do with how do you listen? How do you understand what those energies are that we are all a part of and how does that kind of inform you in terms of who you are and your own individual personality and maybe goals and values but it’s values that are in sync with in harmony with earth energies.

there’s a whole field of geomancy that includes ley lines and divining with earth energies and labyrinths and standing stones in Europe and other places. But they have their relationship too, I found, in native cultures in this country very much so. And then I discovered, my goodness, my own Celtic background. I am Scottish and Irish and guess what? Those similar traditions and you might say it’s a

Earth science and it’s a science of the soul really exists in my own culture as well as in Native America. So I started learning more about that and then as I learned more I started offering some group gatherings and sharing what I was learning. I ultimately ended up teaching out at Ghost Ranch New Mexico which is a retreat center northwest of Santa Fe out in the Georgia O’Keeffe area for quite a few years and part of that

Sam Berne (04:30.848)

on your Earthwalks is listening, feeling and seeing the Earth energies. could you elaborate? I know one of the quotes you have is you have to desire. You said that to me. So people want to know about that. What’s all that about? Yeah, I guess that would be probably the most important first step. know, you you.

You think that, this is possible. So maybe I want to understand, I want to experience. And I think a lot of us, most of us probably have.

Maybe it was more when we were children, younger, playing outside or even in the parking lot, wherever it might be, that we were, you know, looking at things more closely as little kids, right? We were looking at the earth, you know, the small things that were maybe the bugs, the insects, maybe it was how the sand was blowing across our yard or wherever we were, if we were in an urban environment or a rural environment. So, yeah, that’s the first step is kind of in a way

Sam Berne (05:50.017)

of whether it was popping out of the asphalt or where it was. And yes, you can find that no matter where you are. You don’t have to be in pristine environment like Chaco Canyon, where you and I have been before several times.

Yeah, I think that listening, looking, you know, that inner that inner sense of knowing is an essential part of it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, know, I know in my own case, we’ve talked about this. My power spot is Hawaii. And I’ve led a lot of retreats there. And of course, the energies there are very different in some ways than New Mexico. But it is that listening, feeling and seeing and all the elements coming together. And

I love how you orchestrate that on your workshops here. So which brings me to the next question. Can you talk about ecotourism? Absolutely. In fact, not only talk about I’d like to read something from Dr. Greg Kehete, who is a Pueblo, a Native American Pueblo from the southwest here in the Santa Fe area scholar. And this is what he says about related to ecotourism. Traditional systems of Indian

education represent ways of learning and doing through a nature-centered philosophy. This gets back to geomancy. They are among the oldest continuing expressions of quote, environmental education in the world. Taken as a whole, they represent an environmental education process with profound meaning for modern education as it faces the challenges of living in the 21st century. So he has a book,

Sam Berne (08:05.771)

you go somewhere and you’re going to get something as opposed to giving something. And ecotourism really is a reciprocal relationship between you and the place and the people that you are visiting. But there are some basic principles Sam that I think are real important to talk about. One is if you’re going to be, you know, visiting somewhere, try and minimize your impact. And that has a lot to do with environmental impact, but also your

presence, how big of a presence do you want to make as a tourist, as a visitor, and then building environmental and cultural awareness and respect.

So what does that mean? Well, it means you’re not just going to take pictures and then run away and then put that on your Instagram and share it with everybody else. You’re going to spend time listening like we were talking about with Geomancy, listening to people and really respecting the traditions and the people who you’re visiting and the place that you’re visiting. So that provides positive experiences for not only you, but the people who are you are visiting. In fact, with Earthwalks, what we’ve experienced

lots of times the indigenous folks who are really our leaders have said thank you for coming.

Sam Berne (09:50.091)

to the issues that are there before you go. One thing I wanted to say Sam is that if any of your viewers want me to send them a list of my bibliography that includes videos and websites and books that relate to everything we’re talking about, just get in touch. I’ll send that out to you as right away. So we’re here with Doug Conwell. He’s founder of Earthwalks and just a wonderful person who

loves New Mexico and has a very deep connection with the indigenous cultures here and

So I guess my curiosity is what should people know about Chaco Canyon? Wow, that’s such an amazing place, isn’t it? It is. Wow. Well, Chaco is from Santa Fe. It’s about four and a half hours away from here by car. But it’s located in a really wide open empty space. In a lot of ways, people would say empty. Like why here? This huge World Heritage site with enormous

ancient buildings that were in astronomical alignment, sun, stars, moon, it’s a pretty amazing place where you visit and we say, why there? And there are questions about that. Why? Because there’s not any water that really runs, that sustains the people. But there’s something there that really called the people and they created this huge center which reached out to the vast

Sam Berne (11:54.625)

You’re the star man, Sam. He’s an amazing astronomer, folks. You ought to be with him in Chaco Canyon when he pulls out these gigantic telescopes and then takes us to the stars. Well, I think the Chaco people did that. know, without the aid of a telescope, somehow they went out there because they aligned their buildings, amazing sites, with such precision, mathematical and astronomical and mathematical precision,

But beyond that, I’ve always found Chaco to have a certain powerful beneficial energy. Now I know there’s a history that may not be so benevolent in Chaco’s history like there is in every culture around the world, but overall that’s been my experience, a real healing environment.

Talk about land acknowledgement. Well, I said something about that earlier on, but I think why it’s so important maybe is what you’re asking. it so important? Even in major cities, large cities, let’s take New York City as an example, where I just was this last summer.

people may not have the history and understanding of who were the first peoples on this land, what the history of that place was. And of course, we look at the social injustices that have occurred in our country, colonialism, settler mentality, the westward expansion, the coming of the railroad. This was after the Spanish invasion, colonial invasion in our part of the world

Sam Berne (14:12.047)

And here we sit on those lands now, and most of us without an awareness of the history of that social injustice and colonialism. I think it’s important wherever you are to be able to have that awareness, not to just feel guilty about it all.

or anger or resentment, but to say, yes, this is the way it was, and I am here as a result of that, and how can I give back? Here’s a good way that we can do it here. They’ve done it in Oakland. It’s a pretty urban area, Oakland. The indigenous people of Oakland reached out to the community and said, you’re living on native land, Oakland. We would like you to voluntarily, if you would, consider don’t

donating, based on maybe the value of the land that you’re on right now, certain amount of money, and we’re going to build an indigenous center for our community, which includes social services and medical services and clinics and that kind of thing. They did it. People voluntarily from their hearts donated and said, I am here because of you. And there’s an effort in Santa Fe to do the very same thing. So that’s just one way to give back. And be aware.

Well, we’re coming down to the end of our show today. how can people get in touch with you where they can see your offerings this year? can share about what you’re going to be doing if you want to in terms of workshops and so give us your contact info, your website and maybe what you’re doing this year. Sure. Well, thank you, Sam. Well, the best way to reach me is through earth walks dot org earth walks dot org and you’ll find a way to contact me.

Sam Berne (16:26.747)

of New Mexico and Arizona. We’ll be there about for three or four days, participating in Sweat Lodge right on the edge of the canyon, and doing service work. This is an element of Earthwalks I didn’t mention, but it’s important to know that one of the ways we give back as participants is to do service projects helping people. In Canyon de Chey in the past, we’ve been out there in the field pulling weeds, whatever it might be, feeding the sheep with the weeds, that kind

of a thing and then sharing a meal together whatever it might be with folks from that area. Excellent. And then how about your Chaco trip? Chaco will be in the fall. I don’t have a date for that. But Chaco Canyon in the fall, that is a camping trip. The Canyon de Shea one is a lodging, indoor lodging based but that’s the difference between the two.

But yeah, and there is walking involved, but Earthwalks, the name refers to our own life’s journey, our Earthwalk in this life. Well, I will make sure to put all the contact information on the podcast notes, and we’re going to end the show with Doug playing a little bit of flute. And thank you so much for sharing today and.

more fun. Thank you Sam. Looking forward to more of the Starman in our lives here too. Stay tuned. This is a Native American flute that a friend of mine gave me many years ago.

Sam Berne (18:31.017)