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How did Christianity become so deeply woven into the American story? 

Matthew Avery Sutton, professor of history at Washington State University and author of Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain why American Christianity and American history cannot be told as separate stories. Sutton traces Christianity’s influence from Columbus, Spanish Catholic missions, Jamestown, Puritans, Quakers, Catholics, enslaved Muslims, Indigenous nations, and the First Amendment to revivalism, slavery, abolition, apocalyptic evangelicalism, and Christian nationalism. 

He argues that disestablishment did not remove religion from public life. Instead, it created a competitive religious marketplace where churches had to persuade, organize, innovate, and grow. The conversation also challenges both oversimplified “Christian nation” claims and overly clean secular founding myths. This episode helps listeners see America’s 250th as a moment for humility, honesty, and a fuller reckoning with the faiths that shaped the country.

Guest Bio
Matthew Avery Sutton is a historian of American religion and politics at Washington State University. His work examines how Christianity, evangelicalism, revivalism, missions, apocalyptic belief, and political power have shaped American public life. He is the author of Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity, American Apocalypse: A History of Modern Evangelicalism, Double Crossed: The Missionaries Who Spied for the United States During the Second World War, and Aimee Semple McPherson and the Resurrection of Christian America. In this conversation, Sutton helps frame the Church and State 250 series by showing how Christianity has been both a force for power and reform throughout American history.

Book Mentioned
Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity by Matthew Avery Sutton
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781541646339

American Apocalypse: A History of Modern Evangelicalism by Matthew Avery Sutton
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780674975439

Relevant Links & Resources
Matthew Avery Sutton Faculty Profile
URL: https://history.wsu.edu/faculty/wsu-profile/sutton/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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How did Manifest Destiny become a Christian story about land, providence, and moral duty? 

L. Daniel Hawk, Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at Ashland Theological Seminary and author of Undoing Manifest Destiny, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain how theology helped justify conquest, removal, and Indigenous erasure. Hawk traces Manifest Destiny through John O’Sullivan’s famous phrase, the Doctrine of Discovery, Lewis and Clark’s “Corps of Discovery,” Genesis 1:28, and the settler belief that land had to be owned, fenced, cultivated, and turned into property before it counted as rightly used. 

He also challenges a common assumption: early Americans did not usually justify westward conquest by directly appealing to the book of Joshua. The deeper story, he argues, was a Christianized vision of dominion, civilization, and national innocence. This conversation helps listeners understand how biblical language shaped American expansion, and why that history still matters for churches, politics, and America’s 250th.

Guest bio
Dr. L. Daniel Hawk is Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at Ashland Theological Seminary. He is the author of Undoing Manifest Destiny: Settler America, Christian Colonists, and the Pursuit of Justice. His work helps explain how biblical interpretation, settler colonialism, and American national identity shaped Christian justifications for conquest, land seizure, and Indigenous erasure.

Book Mentioned
Undoing Manifest Destiny: Settler America, Christian Colonists, and the Pursuit of Justice by L. Daniel Hawk
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781514008645

Relevant Links & Resources
L. Daniel Hawk Faculty Profile
URL: https://seminary.ashland.edu/faculty-and-staff/l-daniel-hawk/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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Can America tell the truth about itself if it starts the story in 1776? 

Mark Charles, Navajo writer, speaker, activist, and co-author of Unsettling Truths, opens Church and State 250 by arguing that America’s religious story begins with land, conquest, colonization, and theology. Charles explains the Doctrine of Discovery, the papal ideas that gave Christian Europe permission to claim land already inhabited by Indigenous peoples, and how that logic later shaped colonial charters, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, Manifest Destiny, Supreme Court precedent, and modern Christian nationalism. 

He challenges familiar phrases like “Columbus discovered America,” “nation of immigrants,” and “We the People,” asking listeners to notice who was excluded from those stories. This is not an easy opening conversation. It is a necessary one, because Charles insists that the country cannot build a shared future without first creating a common memory.

Guest Bio
Mark Charles is a Navajo writer, speaker, consultant, activist, and co-author of Unsettling Truths: The Ongoing, Dehumanizing Legacy of the Doctrine of Discovery. The son of an American woman of Dutch heritage and a Navajo man, Charles teaches on the intersections of American history, race, culture, faith, land, and Christendom. He is the author of Reflections from the Hogan, co-founder of the Would Jesus Eat Frybread? college-conference series, and in 2020 ran as an independent candidate for president while advocating for a national Truth and Conciliation Commission on race, gender, and class. In this conversation, Charles helps explain why America’s religious history has to begin with Indigenous land, the Doctrine of Discovery, colonization, and the stories the country tells about itself.

Book Mentioned
Unsettling Truths: The Ongoing, Dehumanizing Legacy of the Doctrine of Discovery by Mark Charles and Soong-Chan Rah
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780830845255

Relevant Links & Resources
Mark Charles Official Website
URL: https://wirelesshogan.com/about/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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Why do racial myths continue to shape American politics, religion, and culture long after people claim to reject racism? 

Greg Garrett, author of White Lies: Dismantling Ten Cultural Myths About Race, joins Faithful Politics to explain how false stories about race have been used to justify slavery, segregation, voting restrictions, exclusion, and white Christian nationalism. Garrett draws from film, theology, law, politics, sermons, advertising, James Baldwin, the Lost Cause, The Birth of a Nation, and the National Museum of African American History and Culture to show how myths do real public work. 

They tell people who belongs, who leads, and whose suffering can be ignored. The conversation does not treat myth as harmless folklore. It asks who these stories serve, why they are still persuasive, and what truth-telling requires from Christians, citizens, and communities that want to do better.

Book Mentioned
White Lies: Dismantling Ten Cultural Myths About Race by Greg Garrett
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780197652183

Relevant Links & Resources
Greg Garrett - Baylor University
URL: https://english.artsandsciences.baylor.edu/person/dr-greg-garrett

Guest Bio
Greg Garrett is the Carole McDaniel Hanks Professor of Literature and Culture at Baylor University and Canon Theologian for the American Cathedral of the Holy Trinity in Paris. He has written more than thirty books, including White Lies: Dismantling Ten Cultural Myths About Race, The Gospel According to James Baldwin, and A Long, Long Way: Hollywood’s Unfinished Journey from Racism to Reconciliation. His work focuses on the intersection of faith, culture, literature, film, race, and public life, which makes him a strong guide for this conversation about the myths that sustain racial hierarchy in American religion and politics.

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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What does conservatism mean when personality politics starts replacing policy, principle, and coalition-building? 

Tim Chapman, president of Advancing American Freedom, joins Faithful Politics to explain how he thinks about the future of the conservative movement, the Republican Party, and the role of long-term policy advocacy in American public life.

Chapman brings more than two decades of experience in conservative politics, including work with Heritage Action, the Heritage Foundation, P2 Public Affairs, and several U.S. senators. The conversation covers Reagan-era tax reform, Jack Kemp’s persistence on policy, conservative fusionism, traditional values, free markets, strong national defense, and the challenge of building institutions that can survive beyond one political figure. Will, Josh, and Tim also discuss the One Big Beautiful Bill, civility in Congress, Iran, America First foreign policy, and what America 250 should mean for the next generation.

Relevant Links & Resources
Advancing American Freedom
URL: https://advancingamericanfreedom.com/

Guest Bio
Tim Chapman is the president of Advancing American Freedom, a public policy advocacy organization founded by former Vice President Mike Pence. He has spent more than two decades working in conservative policy and political advocacy, including service as a principal at P2 Public Affairs, executive director of Heritage Action, chief of staff at the Heritage Foundation, and as an adviser and staff member to Senators Jim DeMint, Don Nickles, and Tim Hutchinson. His work focuses on conservative coalition-building, public policy strategy, and helping shape the future direction of the conservative movement.

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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What should Christians do when global politics becomes personal, chaotic, and violent? 

Dr. Robert J. Joustra, Professor of Politics and Spoelhof Chair at Calvin University and author of Christ and Covenant in Global Politics, joins Faithful Politics to ask what Christian theology can actually contribute to international relations. Joustra argues that Christians have often thought carefully about domestic politics, but far less about diplomacy, war, trade, climate, Israel, China, Iran, and the moral responsibilities nations have to each other.

Drawing on John Calvin, Augustine’s idea of rightly ordered loves, covenantal pluralism, and the just war tradition, he explains why “Christ is King” should limit state power rather than sanctify it. The conversation moves from America’s 250th anniversary and Christian nationalism to Israel, Iran, World War II, Afghanistan, Iraq, and the moral purpose of force. At its core, this is a conversation about whether Christian politics can be serious enough to pursue justice without turning nations into idols.

Book Mentioned
Christ and Covenant in Global Politics: A Christian Introduction to International Relations by Robert J. Joustra
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/p/books/christ-and-covenant-in-global-politics-a-christian-introduction-to-international-relations-robert-j-joustra/fe15a081a65ad89d
Relevant Links & Resources
Christ and Covenant in Global Politics - IVP Academic
URL: https://www.ivpress.com/christ-and-covenant-in-global-politics

Guest Bio
Dr. Robert J. Joustra is Professor of Politics and Spoelhof Chair at Calvin University. He is a political scientist whose work focuses on international relations, public theology, religious freedom, pluralism, and the moral responsibilities of political communities. He is the author of Christ and Covenant in Global Politics: A Christian Introduction to International Relations, a book that brings Christian ethics into questions of diplomacy, war, political economy, climate, global justice, and covenantal pluralism. He has also authored and edited other books and serves as Senior Editor with The Review of Faith & International Affairs.

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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Why do people stay in political movements even after they begin to have doubts?

Rich Logis spent seven years as a committed MAGA activist, commentator, and organizer before ultimately leaving the movement and founding Leaving MAGA, a nonprofit that helps people who are questioning or leaving MAGA find community and support. In this conversation, Rich explains why he was initially drawn to Donald Trump, how political identity became intertwined with belonging, and what made it so difficult to walk away.
The discussion explores misinformation, political tribalism, Christian nationalism, media ecosystems, and the emotional cost of changing deeply held beliefs. Rich argues that leaving MAGA is often less about changing political opinions and more about losing a community that provided meaning, purpose, and connection.

The conversation also examines whether MAGA can outlast Trump, the role fear plays in political movements, and why people across ideological lines need spaces where disagreement does not require dehumanization.

Book Mentioned
One Betrayal Too Many: Why I Left MAGA by Rich Logis
Book page: https://leavingmaga.org/one-betrayal-too-many/
Relevant Links & Resources
Leaving MAGA
URL: https://leavingmaga.org/

Guest Bio
Rich Logis is the founder and executive director of Leaving MAGA, a nonprofit organization that helps people leave the MAGA movement, reconnect with friends and family, and share their stories publicly. A former MAGA activist, commentator, and podcaster, Logis spent seven years deeply involved in the movement before leaving in 2022. He is the author of One Betrayal Too Many: Why I Left MAGA, a memoir that examines political identity, misinformation, community, and the challenges of changing deeply held beliefs.

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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What does religious freedom actually protect when people are afraid of someone else’s faith? Maggie Siddiqi, Senior Advisor at Interfaith Alliance and former Director of the Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the U.S. Department of Education, joins Faithful Politics for a conversation about Islam, pluralism, public schools, Christian nationalism, and the fear surrounding Sharia law.

Maggie shares her own story of growing up Baptist, converting to Islam, and still holding deep respect for her Baptist roots. She also explains why religious freedom works best when it protects every community equally, including Christians, Muslims, Jews, and people of no faith. The conversation gets into antisemitism, Islamophobia, public school religious expression, the politics of anti-Christian bias claims, and why Sharia law is often used as a political scare tactic. At its core, this episode is about how fear of religious difference can weaken democracy, and how pluralism gives Americans a better way to live together. 

Relevant Links & Resources

Interfaith Alliance
URL: https://www.interfaithalliance.org/

Guest Bio

Maggie Siddiqi is Senior Advisor at Interfaith Alliance, where her work focuses on religious freedom, interfaith solidarity, public policy, and standing against hate. She previously served as Director of the Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the U.S. Department of Education, where she worked on religious freedom issues including antisemitism, Islamophobia, and church-state separation. She has also served as Senior Director of the Religion and Faith team at the Center for American Progress and is a Non-Resident Fellow on Muslim-Jewish Partnerships at MPAC. Her background in Christian-Muslim relations, public policy, and faith-based advocacy makes her a strong guide for this conversation about pluralism, democracy, Islamophobia, and religious freedom in American public life. 

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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How is Christian nationalism showing up inside the U.S. military chaplaincy, and why does it matter for religious freedom?

In this episode, Will talks with Leigh Larson, a theologian, Air Force veteran, public scholar, and founder of Follow the Leighder. Larson’s research focuses on Christian nationalism in U.S. military chaplaincy, giving her both personal experience and academic grounding for this conversation.

Military chaplains serve at one of the most complicated intersections of church and state. They are religious leaders inside a government institution, but their job is supposed to protect the spiritual care of every service member, including people of different faiths and no faith at all.

Larson explains how chaplains are trained, why endorsing bodies and faith codes matter, and what happens when spiritual care shifts toward proselytizing or political theology. The conversation covers religious pluralism, Wiccan and humanist recognition, Cold War civil religion, post-9/11 evangelical influence, and the growing concern over Christian nationalism inside military culture. 

Relevant Links & Resources

Follow the Leighder: https://www.followtheleighder.com/
Follow the Leighder Substack: https://followtheleighder.substack.com/

Guest Bio

Leigh Larson is a theologian, veteran, and public scholar, and the creator and host of Follow the Leighder, a multi-platform society and culture brand reaching 245K+ followers across five platforms.

She holds a Master of Theological Studies from Phillips Theological Seminary, where her thesis examined Christian Nationalism in US military chaplaincy through original research including 22 interview subjects and a 116-response survey. She is a 2025–2026 Disciples of Christ HELM Global Theological Fellow (one of nine selected nationally) and a 2025 Stone-Campbell Journal Graduate Essay Finalist. During her first year of seminary, she served in the United States Air Force Reserve as a Chaplain Candidate and Second Lieutenant. She holds a BA in International Relations from the University of Texas at Austin, where she was both a Presidential Scholar and Jefferson Scholar.

When she is not recording or writing, Leigh is somewhere on the road with her dog, Professor Huckleberry.

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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What happens when feelings become the test of truth?

Robert P. George joins Faithful Politics to talk about what he calls “the age of feeling,” a moment where many people treat personal emotion as the final word on what is true. George argues that this does not lead to tolerance. It often makes disagreement feel like a personal attack, which shuts down honest conversation and creates real problems for democracy. 

The conversation moves through faith, reason, truth, tribalism, intellectual humility, and the challenge of disagreeing with your own side. Will brings in Jonathan Haidt’s work on intuition and political identity, while Josh and George work through harder questions around same-sex marriage, gender, Obergefell, Loving v. Virginia, and the deeper moral assumptions underneath those debates.

At its core, this episode is about whether Americans can still disagree seriously without turning each other into enemies. George’s answer is that truth-seeking requires more than strong opinions. It requires reasons, evidence, humility, and the courage to listen when your tribe says one thing and your conscience says another.

website: robertpgeorge.com

Robert P. George is the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University and Director of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. He is a legal scholar, political philosopher, and public intellectual whose work focuses on natural law, constitutionalism, religious liberty, conscience, civil discourse, and moral reasoning in public life. He is the author of several books, including Conscience and Its Enemies, Making Men Moral, Seeking Truth and Speaking Truth, and Truth Matters, co-authored with Cornel West. 

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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