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What happens when Christians begin to believe they are entitled to rule over everyone else? 

Matthew D. Taylor, a scholar of religion and politics and visiting scholar at Georgetown University’s Center on Faith and Justice, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain how Christian nationalism fits inside a much older story of Christian supremacy, empire, and political power. Taylor traces the pattern back to Constantine, Christendom, and the long history of Christians using Jesus to justify conquest, coercion, and rule. 

He then brings the story into the present through MAGA Christianity, the New Apostolic Reformation, the Seven Mountain Mandate, prophecy around Donald Trump, Paula White-Cain, Lance Wallnau, spiritual warfare, and January 6. The conversation helps listeners understand why Christian nationalism is not one movement, but a spectrum of beliefs and networks competing for power. It is also a warning about what America’s 250th means if Christians try to restore the divine right of kings.

Guest Bio
Matthew D. Taylor, PhD, is a scholar of religion and politics and a visiting scholar at Georgetown University’s Center on Faith and Justice. His work focuses on Christian nationalism, religious extremism, Christian supremacy, American Islam, and the role of religious pluralism in defending democracy. He is the author of Scripture People, The Violent Take It by Force, and the forthcoming Defying Tyrants: Following Jesus in a World of Christian Antichrists. He also created Charismatic Revival Fury, an audio documentary series on the New Apostolic Reformation and the Christian leaders and ideas that helped fuel January 6. His research connects directly to this episode’s focus on Christian imperialism, MAGA Christianity, prophecy, spiritual warfare, and the fight over America’s democratic future.

Book Mentioned
The Violent Take It by Force: The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy by Matthew D. Taylor
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781506497785

Defying Tyrants: Following Jesus in a World of Christian Antichrists by Matthew D. Taylor
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798341900370

Relevant Links & Resources
Matthew D. Taylor Official Website
URL: https://www.drmatthewdtaylor.com/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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What does “Christian nationalism” actually mean, and how can people tell the difference between public faith, patriotism, and a political project built around power? 

Andrew Whitehead and Samuel Perry, two leading sociologists of religion and politics, join Pastor Josh Burtram and Will Wright to explain Christian nationalism as a cultural framework that fuses a particular kind of Christianity with American civic life. They discuss how survey data connects Christian nationalism with attitudes about race, immigration, voting access, authoritarianism, gender, and who really belongs in America. 

The conversation also clarifies why they often use the phrase “white Christian nationalism,” what critics misunderstand or misrepresent, and why public prayer or Christians voting their values is not the same thing as Christian nationalism. This is a practical guide to understanding one of the most important forces shaping American politics, churches, and democracy today.

Guest Bio
Andrew L. Whitehead is a professor of sociology at Indiana University Indianapolis and one of the leading scholars of Christian nationalism in the United States. Samuel L. Perry is the Sam K. Viersen Presidential Professor of Sociology at the University of Oklahoma. Together, they co-authored Taking America Back for God, one of the most influential empirical studies of Christian nationalism in America. Perry is also the co-author of The Flag and the Cross, and Whitehead is the author of American Idolatry. Their work helps this episode explain Christian nationalism as a measurable social framework connected to race, democracy, religious identity, and political power.

Book Mentioned
Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States by Andrew L. Whitehead and Samuel L. Perry
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780190057886

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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How did Christian music become one of the most powerful forces shaping evangelical identity and politics? 

Leah Payne, professor of American religious history at Portland Seminary and author of God Gave Rock and Roll to You, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain why contemporary Christian music is more than a soundtrack. It is a business, a discipleship tool, and a form of cultural power. Payne traces CCM from Pentecostal and revivalist roots to Billy Graham, the Jesus Movement, Amy Grant, DC Talk, purity culture, worship music, and even January 6. 

She argues that music often forms people more deeply than doctrine because it teaches Christians what to fear, what to defend, what feels sacred, and who belongs. This conversation helps listeners see how evangelical politics was shaped not only by sermons, denominations, and elections, but by songs, celebrities, markets, mothers, youth culture, and worship.

Guest Bio
Leah Payne, PhD, is professor of American religious history at Portland Seminary and faculty lead for the Doctor of Ministry in Faith & Cultural Engagement program. Her work focuses on American religion, evangelicalism, Pentecostalism, popular culture, music, media, gender, and politics. She is the author of God Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music, published by Oxford University Press, and co-host of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, a Public Radio Exchange podcast about Christian rock and its listeners. In this conversation, Payne helps explain how CCM, worship music, Christian celebrity, purity culture, and evangelical media shaped American religious identity and political life.

Book Mentioned
God Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music by Leah Payne
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780197555248

Relevant Links & Resources
Leah Payne
URL: https://www.drleahpayne.com/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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How did “biblical manhood” become so tied to aggression, politics, and power? 

Kristin Kobes Du Mez, professor of history at Calvin University and author of Jesus and John Wayne, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain how white evangelical ideas about masculinity helped shape American Christianity and American politics. Du Mez traces the rise of rugged Christian manhood through culture, Cold War politics, the Religious Right, Ronald Reagan, fear of feminism and secularism, anti-Muslim rhetoric, and the culture war machinery that turns complicated issues into loyalty tests. 

She also connects masculine power to institutional self-protection, including the Southern Baptist Convention’s response to women in leadership and sexual abuse reform. This conversation is not just about men. It is about how gender, theology, fear, capitalism, and political power worked together to shape modern white evangelicalism, and why America’s 250th raises urgent questions about religious liberty and democracy.

Guest Bio
Kristin Kobes Du Mez, PhD, is a historian, New York Times bestselling author, and professor of history at Calvin University. Her work focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, politics, and American evangelicalism. She is the author of Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation, A New Gospel for Women, and the forthcoming Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made. She is also a Senior Democracy Fellow with PRRI. In this conversation, Du Mez helps explain how white evangelical ideas about masculinity, femininity, fear, family, politics, and power shaped the modern church and the country around it.

Book Mentioned
Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation by Kristin Kobes Du Mez
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781631499050

Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made by Kristin Kobes Du Mez
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781324090977

Relevant Links & Resources
Kristin Kobes Du Mez Official Website
URL: https://kristindumez.com/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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Can America tell its religious history honestly without confronting race? 

Jemar Tisby, historian, public scholar, author, and founder of Tisby Media, joins Will Wright for Church and State 250 to explain why race does not “enter” the American story later. It has been there from the beginning. Tisby connects the Declaration of Independence, the Three-Fifths Compromise, slavery, voting rights, segregation, the Black Church, and white Christian nationalism to show how Christianity has been used both to defend racial hierarchy and resist it. 

He explains how churches labeled slavery and race “political” when doing so protected money and power, while still speaking freely on other moral issues. The conversation also highlights how enslaved people heard a liberating gospel despite distorted biblical teaching, and why America’s 250th should be a moment to reclaim patriotism, defend democracy, and work toward a more perfect union.

Guest Bio
Jemar Tisby, PhD, is a historian, New York Times bestselling author, public scholar, and founder and creative director of Tisby Media. His work focuses on race, religion, American history, democracy, and justice. He is the author of The Color of Compromise, How to Fight Racism, and The Spirit of Justice, along with several books for younger readers. He is also the executive producer of Jesus Was a Migrant, a documentary from Tisby Studios. In this conversation, Tisby helps explain how race and religion have been intertwined from America’s founding through slavery, segregation, voting rights, the Black Church, white Christian nationalism, and the ongoing fight for democracy.

Book Mentioned
The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780310113607

How to Fight Racism: Courageous Christianity and the Journey Toward Racial Justice by Jemar Tisby
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780310154358

The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance by Jemar Tisby
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780310144854

Relevant Links & Resources
Jemar Tisby Official Website
URL: https://jemartisby.com/

Jesus Was a Migrant
URL: https://jesuswasamigrant.com/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?

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What happens when religious freedom becomes a legal tool for imposing religion on others? 

Andrew L. Seidel, constitutional attorney, author, and Vice President of Strategic Communications at Americans United for Separation of Church and State, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain how church-state law has shaped American public life. Seidel walks through the Establishment Clause, the Free Exercise Clause, Article VI’s ban on religious tests, and major Supreme Court cases including Everson, Brown v. Board, Lemon v. Kurtzman, Kennedy v. Bremerton, and Carson v. Makin. 

He argues that separation of church and state is larger than one clause in the First Amendment. It is woven through the Constitution’s structure and protects people of every faith and no faith. The conversation also explores public schools, vouchers, Christian nationalism, Leonard Leo’s influence on the courts, and why America’s 250th is a moment to defend religious liberty for everyone.

Guest Bio
Andrew L. Seidel is a constitutional and civil rights attorney, author, and Vice President of Strategic Communications at Americans United for Separation of Church and State. His work focuses on religious freedom, church-state separation, Christian nationalism, and the way constitutional law affects public life. He is the author of The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism Is Un-American and American Crusade: How the Supreme Court Is Weaponizing Religious Freedom, and co-editor of Law and Religion: Cases and Materials. His legal and public writing helps explain how First Amendment law, religious liberty claims, public schools, and Supreme Court doctrine shape the rights of believers and nonbelievers alike.

Book Mentioned
American Crusade: How the Supreme Court Is Weaponizing Religious Freedom by Andrew L. Seidel
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781454943921

Relevant Links & Resources
Americans United for Separation of Church and State - Andrew L. Seidel
URL: https://www.au.org/about-au/people/andrew-l-seidel/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

Support the show

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Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?

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Could enslaved Africans become Christians, and if they did, should baptism lead to freedom? 

Katharine Gerbner, Associate Professor of History and Director of Religious Studies at the University of Minnesota, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain how religion shaped slavery and race in the Protestant Atlantic world. Gerbner’s book, Christian Slavery, examines a tension many Americans rarely consider: early Protestant slaveholders often treated Christianity as a marker of freedom, while missionaries wanted to convert enslaved people without disrupting slavery. 

That conflict helped produce what Gerbner calls “Protestant supremacy,” a religious framework that came before the legal solidification of whiteness and helped justify slavery through religious difference. The conversation moves through Quakers in Barbados, baptism, Catholic and Protestant slave systems, enslaved Christians, and theologies used to defend bondage. It is a hard but necessary look at how Christian language could be used both to seek freedom and to preserve power.

Guest Bio
Katharine Gerbner is Associate Professor of History and Director of the Religious Studies Program at the University of Minnesota. Her work examines how religion shapes, and is shaped by, race, freedom, politics, and technology. She is the author of Christian Slavery: Conversion and Race in the Protestant Atlantic World, which argues that religion was central to the development of both slavery and race in the Protestant Atlantic world, and Archival Irruptions: Constructing Religion and Criminalizing Obeah in Eighteenth-Century Jamaica. Her scholarship connects directly to this episode’s focus on Christian slavery, Protestant supremacy, baptism, enslaved Christians, and the religious arguments used to justify or challenge slavery.

Book Mentioned
Christian Slavery: Conversion and Race in the Protestant Atlantic World by Katharine Gerbner
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780812224368

Relevant Links & Resources
Katharine Gerbner Faculty Profile
URL: https://cla.umn.edu/about/directory/profile/kgerbner

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

Support the show

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Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?

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How did white Southern evangelicals use the Bible to defend segregation after slavery ended?

J. Russell “Rusty” Hawkins, Dean of the John Wesley Honors College and Professor of Honors Humanities and History at Indiana Wesleyan University, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain the theological arguments behind Jim Crow Christianity. Hawkins, author of The Bible Told Them So, shows how white evangelicals read stories like Babel, Levitical separation laws, Acts 17, and Revelation as evidence that God intended racial separation. 

The conversation moves through the Civil War as a theological crisis, Brown v. Board of Education, Christian colleges, Bob Jones University, local church resistance, and the rise of “colorblindness” as a religious argument against integration. This episode matters because it shows that segregation was not defended only through politics or culture. For many Christians, it was defended as biblical truth, which should make today’s believers more humble about certainty.

Guest Bio
J. Russell “Rusty” Hawkins is Dean of the John Wesley Honors College and Professor of Honors Humanities and History at Indiana Wesleyan University. He is the author of The Bible Told Them So: How Southern Evangelicals Fought to Preserve White Supremacy, published by Oxford University Press in 2021, and co-editor of Christians and the Color Line: Race and Religion after Divided by Faith. His work focuses on religion, race, white evangelicalism, segregation, and the civil rights era, making him a strong guide for understanding how theology shaped resistance to racial equality in American life.

Book Mentioned
The Bible Told Them So: How Southern Evangelicals Fought to Preserve White Supremacy by J. Russell Hawkins
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780197571064

Relevant Links & Resources
J. Russell “Rusty” Hawkins Faculty Profile
URL: https://www.indwes.edu/academics/faculty/profiles/rusty-hawkins

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore

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Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
faithfulpolitics.substack.com

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What happens when Christianity becomes a tool for defending racial hierarchy? 

Robert P. Jones, founder and president of PRRI and author of White Too Long, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy, and the forthcoming Backslide, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to examine how white Christianity shaped slavery, segregation, public memory, and American democracy. Jones traces the story through his own Southern Baptist family history, the denominational splits over slavery, the religious defense of the Confederacy, lynching, the Lost Cause, segregation academies, and the long refusal of many white Christians to fully repent of white supremacy. 

The conversation also looks at why terms like “white Christian” and “white evangelical” are uncomfortable but necessary, and how racial identity still shapes religious and political behavior. This episode asks a hard question: if Christians once used the Bible to justify slavery and Jim Crow, what are Christians being asked to confront now?

Guest Bio
Robert P. Jones, PhD, is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute, known as PRRI, and a New York Times bestselling author. His work examines the intersection of religion, race, politics, democracy, and American identity. He is the author of The End of White Christian America, White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future, and the forthcoming Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy. His research and writing connect directly to this episode’s focus on white Christianity, slavery, segregation, Christian nationalism, public memory, and the future of democracy.

Book Mentioned
Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy by Robert P. Jones
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/56272/9781250431134

The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy  by Robert P. Jones
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781668009529

Relevant Links & Resources
PRRI - Robert P. Jones
URL: https://prri.org/staff/robert-p-jones-ph-d/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

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Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?

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Was America founded as a Christian nation, or has that story been repeated so often that it feels true? 

Warren Throckmorton, retired professor of psychology and author of The Christian Past That Wasn’t and co-author of Getting Jefferson Right, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to test popular founding myths against primary sources. Throckmorton walks through claims about the Constitution, religious tests, Benjamin Franklin’s prayer motion, Thomas Jefferson, the Danbury Baptists, the Cape Henry prayer, the 1774 Continental Congress prayer, and David Barton’s influence on modern Christian nationalist history. 

He argues that many Christian nation claims depend on selective quotation, invented stories, or ignoring the actual records of the Constitutional Convention. The conversation also explores why these myths are emotionally powerful. Fear, identity, and power can make bad history feel comforting, especially when people believe their faith or country is being taken away.

Guest Bio
Warren Throckmorton, PhD, is a writer, researcher, and retired professor of psychology at Grove City College. His work examines Christian nationalism, American religious history, psychology, and the misuse of historical claims in public life. He is the author of The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History and co-author, with Michael Coulter, of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson. In this conversation, Throckmorton brings together historical fact-checking and psychological insight to explain why myths about America’s Christian founding remain powerful, why primary sources matter, and why separation of church and state protects religious freedom

Book Mentioned
The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History by Warren Throckmorton
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889835820

Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Michael Coulter and Warren Throckmorton
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798990900622

Relevant Links & Resources
The Throckmorton Initiative
URL: https://warrenthrockmorton.substack.com/

Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091

Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/

Support the show

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Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?

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faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore

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Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
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