Fast Talk

Join us as we go through our favorite moments of 2021 including talks with Dr. Asker Jeukendrup, Kristin Armstrong, Jim Miller, Jeff Winkler, Neal Henderson, Dr. Simon Marshall and Lesley Paterson.

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Adam St. Pierre, the head coach of the Nordic ski team at Montana St. University, and a former physiologist and jack-of-all-trades at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine, joins Fast Talk to discuss nordic skiing and how it fits into endurance training, oxygen debt versus deficit, muscle recovery, and mixing running and cycling training modalities effectively.

Nordic ski training

This first question comes from Ashley Masen in California:

“Since cross country skiing is full-body and pushes higher stroke volume than cycling can, could there be a really beneficial way to do VO2max training in the early season, then focus on extending threshold and adding specificity on the bike as you get closer to your race?”

Oxygen debt versus deficit

This question comes from Rodney Simpson in North Carolina. He writes:

“What is your explanation of oxygen debt and oxygen deficit? Is the latency heart rate at the beginning of applying power for a zone 3 interval due to O2 debt or O2 deficit? Also, the duration to return to pre zone 3 interval heart rate due to fitness or fatigue?”

Muscle recovery

This question comes from Kjeld Bontenbal in the Netherlands. He writes:

“Where resting HR and HRV seem to be proper guidelines for cardiovascular recovery, how about muscle recovery?

As a speed skater I often find my rest HR and HRV ‘at rest’, while my legs still feel sore. The soreness translates itself into lower power output in both the aerobic and anaerobic area. It makes me wonder:

What is a good measure to determine the recovery state of the muscles? When the legs feel sore, should I give them more rest for optimal super-compensation?”

References

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Today we’re talking speed, but not necessarily the kind that comes from hard work, although we touch on things like coaches and training plans as the first and most important step to “buying” speed. This episode is about what makes you faster by focusing on aerodynamics and reducing drag or that CdA coefficient that is so important. This is an episode about the things that directly bring speed. 

We’re joined by our friend and colleague Ben Delaney who has spent decades riding and reviewing countless bikes and pieces of gear for VeloNews and BikeRadar, as well as time in the industry with Specialized. He takes us through his tiered hierarchy of options when it comes to spending your way to a faster you. 

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While we’ve talked about supplements on Fast Talk before, we’ve never sat down with one of the world’s preeminent nutrition researchers to dive into the history and overall value of supplements.

But that’s just what we do today. Dr. Louise Burke is a sports dietitian with 40 years of experience in the education and counseling of elite athletes. She worked at the Australian Institute of Sport for 30 years, first as Head of Sports Nutrition and then as Chief of Nutrition Strategy. She was the team dietitian for the Australian Olympic Teams for the 1996 through 2012 Summer Olympic Games.

Her publications include over 350 papers in peer-reviewed journals and book chapters, and the authorship or editorship of several textbooks on sports nutrition. And her list of accomplishments and accolades goes on. She is now a Professorial Fellow at Australian Catholic University.

With the limited time we had with Dr. Burke, we discuss the rise and fall of many supplement fads, the evolving classification of supplements, and the role she played in the creation of an evidence-based categorization system. Then we take a closer look at some of the most popular and effective supplements, discussing the history, development, and efficacy of each.

Today we also hear from a host of other athletes and coaches to get their opinions on supplements. These include Amos Brumble, Houshang Amiri, Dr. Andy Pruitt, Colby Pearce, and Rebecca Rusch.

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This first question we’ve saved for this special occasion. Brenda Castile from Essex, Connecticut, writes:

“Thanksgiving! I love it. I love the food, I love the drinks, I love the desserts. I love being around family. All of which means I’m exposed to calories and germs, a cyclist’s worst nightmare. And, as usual, it comes just a couple of weeks before I want to be at my best for the finale of ‘cross season.

So, how can I have my cake and eat it too? How does someone who takes the sport seriously, as I do, but who also has the perspective on ‘normal’ life to know that I shouldn’t boycott a special gathering that I love for a chance at a dinky medal at ‘cross nationals this year.

Am I just playing mind games with myself? Can I splurge for a day, do my best to limit my exposure to germs and other creepy crawlies, and then get straight back on the wagon the next day, no worse for wear? How do I keep the mind games from making me feel guilty and exposed right when I want to be buckling down for a chance at amateur glory?”

Binge before or after?

This next question comes from Sid Merriman in Dover, Delaware. He writes:

“Simple question: before or after? Thanksgiving is a time for feasting and turkey trots, but do I feast first and then trot, or trot then feast?

My wife and I debate the topic of timing every year. I want to get my turkey trot in first, then binge like there’s no tomorrow—which means she’s pushing back the Thanksgiving meal until late afternoon to accommodate my schedule. She wants me to eat first, so that I get to the turkey trot later in the day to work off that ginormous plate of pecan pie—which means I'm pushing her to have the Thanksgiving meal at or before noon so I have time to digest 8,000 calories before running my brains out. Who’s right, me or my wife?”

Avoiding the Jan Ullrich effect

This question comes from Casey Hickock in Bend, Oregon. He writes:

“When I was first getting into cycling in the late 1990s, I remember watching the Tour de France on TV when Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich were battling. When it came to Jan, a topic of conversation that always seemed to pop up was about his weight, and how much he would put on in the off-season and how hard it would be for him to lose it the following season.

Well, I know how the man must have felt. Leaving everything else from that era aside, can you help me avoid the seemingly inevitable weight gain of winter—I slow down, the food and beer seem to get richer and more plentiful, and the weight gain speeds up. Every year it gets harder to shed the weight come spring. Surely, you’ve heard this before or even dealt with it yourself. I imagine discipline is key here… but besides that, what can I do to avoid this up and down cycle year after year?”

Food as medicine

This question comes from Brad With. He writes:

“I recently read an article by Trevor where he discusses health issues, inflammation, and sickness during his cycling training. I've raced bikes for about 18 years in Colorado. I have been plagued with frequent colds (8-10 a year), digestive issues, and Celiac disease. I have also had a bout of viral postural orthostatic tachycardia (POTS) syndrome. I also had a rare and serious pneumonia that almost took my life in 2012.

I always felt that there was possibly a major factor contributing to these problems. I am seriously considering whether it's the food I'm eating. I'm trying to find some evidence that a drastic change in diet could contribute to improving my health. Paleo is one of the avenues I would like to try. I would like to find other (anecdotal) evidence that Paleo has improved the health of others.”

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There are many ways to measure intensity. This is an episode about the one that is often forgotten: RPE.

Perceived exertion is a standardized way to classify a subjective feeling. We've touched upon RPE in many episodes, often referring to the fact that top pros all know "the feel."

Today, we argue that the metric of feeling—perceived exertion, RPE, sensations, whatever you call it—is in many ways the most important metric. Yes, we're arguing that it is even more important than power and heart rate.

We set the stage by defining RPE. Next, we lay out our argument for why RPE may be the most important metric—whether in the training or racing context.

Then we turn our attention to ways to learn how to understand or interpret feelings to determine RPE. It's not an easy task, but there are certain steps you can take to hone your sense of, well, sense.

Finally, we discuss the best ways to use RPE, from the ability to assess where you're at to knowing what efforts of a given length "feel like" so that you can then use that to pace in races; from adjusting power and HR in training to how the sRPE scale can be used to integrate off-the-bike workouts into overall training load.

Since this is a summary episode, we pulled from previous episodes to hear from a host of the most prominent coaches, athletes, and researchers, including: Jeff Winkler, Joe Friel, Kristen Legan, Amos Brumble, Dirk Friel, Kristin Armstrong, Ned Overend, Dr. Stephen Seiler, Kate Courtney, Svein Tuft, and Julie Young.

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In the beginning, a bike fit would include a guy at a bike shop with a plumb line and a theory. Now, bike fit is a full-fledged science with video cameras, 3D models, and a greater understanding of human anatomy and physiology as it pertains to cycling.

In part 2 of our bike fit discussion, we’ll explore the practical implications of bike fit, from the debate over aerodynamics versus power to our guest’s feelings about technology versus experience and intuition, and many other subjects, generally in the realm of "methodology."

Once again we're joined by three of the great minds in bike fit.

Dr. Andy Pruitt is the director of sports medicine here at Fast Talk, and one of the pioneers of the study of cycling biomechanics. Our next guest has appeared on Fast Talk many times before, and he also continues to host his own podcast, “Cycling in Alignment.” Of course, I speak of Colby Pearce. Finally, making his Fast Talk debut is Todd Carver, co-founder of Retül and the head of human performance at Specialized, which now owns the Retül fit technology.

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Exercise physiologist Rob Pickels returns to Fast Talk to out-nerd Coach Trevor Connor as they discuss new scientific research in sport science. Though the findings of these studies may not always directly apply to your weekly training plan, understanding the questions that have been asked by physiology researchers can give you context about what is known and knowable by science as it relates to human performance.

In case you missed our last Nerd Lab episode, check out Fast Talk episode 172: Sprinting, Overtraining Your Cells, Durability: Rob Pickels & Trevor Connor Nerd Out on Recent Research.

FTP20 Test Review

The first review, "What is known about the FTP 20 test related to cycling? A scoping review," revealed there are only a few studies that have looked at the 20-minute test of FTP. The protocols of the different studies varied a lot, so it is difficult to find significant trends.

Overall, this is a thorough analysis of the 20-minute FTP test and how well it predicts/correlates with other measures. For example, it has decent correlation with MLSS and LT2, but shouldn’t replace them.

Interval Protocols and Time Near VO2max

In the next study, "Time Spent Near VO2max During Different Cycling Self-Paced Interval Training Protocols," the researchers compared 4-minute and 8-minute self-paced intervals with 4:1 and 2:1 recovery ratios. The findings suggest the 2:1 ratios tended to result in more time near VO2max.

But it raises a question: Is time near VO2max the goal? The assumption is that time at VO2max is better for adaptations. Does this assumption drive bad training practices?

Finally, this study also raises interesting questions about self-paced vs. set intensity intervals.

Inclusion of Sprints in Transition Period

The final study, entitled "The Inclusion of Sprints in Low-Intensity Sessions During the Transition Period of Elite Cyclists Improves Endurance Performance 6 Weeks Into the Subsequent Preparatory Period," looked at whether having some intensity in the transition period will help a subsequent preparation period. The findings suggest that including sprints improved 20 minute all-out TT, but there is still a question of whether there is a physiological benefit.

The test procedure was huge; there were differences between the groups. All that improved was their ability to ride at a higher percent of VO2max. Is it a simple improvement in an athlete's ability to suffer?

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Bike fit was once purely a quote-unquote “philosophy.” In the old days, you may have experienced getting a so-called fit by a guy at a bike shop with a plumb line and a theory. Now, bike fit is a full-fledged science—there are video cameras everywhere, 3D modeling, and so on. That being said, it’s a science that is still influenced by philosophy—what each fitter brings to the exam and analysis that impacts his or her perspective.

Today, we’ve gathered three of the great minds in bike fit to discuss this complex and extremely important aspect of cycling. When we sat down to discuss the topic, to no one’s surprise, they spoke for hours, so we’ve decided to split this conversation into two parts.

Today, we start with a discussion about the philosophy of fit, and how science fits into that philosophy. In part 2, we’ll discuss the practical implications of bike fit, from the debate over aerodynamics versus power, to our guest’s feelings about technology versus experience and intuition.

Our guests’ immense experience and influence on the world of bike fit cannot possibly be captured in a single sentence, but that’s what I’ll try to do.

Dr. Andy Pruitt is the director of sports medicine here at Fast Talk, and one of the pioneers of the study of cycling biomechanics. Our next guest has appeared on Fast Talk many times before, and he also continues to host his own podcast, “Cycling in Alignment.” Of course, I speak of Colby Pearce. Finally, making his Fast Talk debut is Todd Carver, co-founder of Retül and the head of human performance at Specialized, which now owns the Retül fit technology.

What do each of our guests have to say about his fit philosophy? What’s involved in a fit? What's the goal of a fit? Stay tuned.

Let's get you fit… and make you fast!

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Our guest coach for this episode is Rab Wardell, owner of Wardell Cycle Coaching, who competed at the mountain bike marathon world championships for Team GB in 2021 and, in 2020, set the fastest known time (FKT) for the West Highland Way in the Highlands of Scotland. (Check out the film here, which was selected for the prestigious Banff Film Festival in 2021.)

Rab helps us answer questions on whether adding some intensity to your long, slow distance rides are detrimental to training adaptations, how to find a new coach when you feel you've reached your limit with previous coaches, and how much a coach should teach his or her athletes the scientific purpose of training and individual workouts.

This question comes from Stuart Hardy of Addlethorpe, UK. He writes:

"Are there any detrimental effects to dropping Seiler Z3 efforts into the long slow rides (which are two to three hours for me)? Essentially, this would mean riding easy on the flat and hitting the short punchy hills (1-5 minute) we have around me hard.

Basically, I would be either easy or all-out in the same ride. I suppose the question is: Does going into VO2/Anaerobic during a long aerobic ride cause the body to change its mode of operation and shift energy systems, thus negating the benefits we’re striving for by riding for longer (i.e. FatMax/aerobic capacity)? Does it shift the body towards glycolysis and it doesn’t revert back between the efforts?”

This next question comes from Beth Frankel of Hilo, Hawaii. She writes:

“When I started cycling seriously five years ago at the age of 22, I found a coach that I liked working with and who was also relatively new to the coaching field. We seemed to click and he has been a great partner in my progress. But now I feel like I’ve reached his limit, and therefore, mine. I’m a Cat. 3 getting decent results, but I want to take it up a level.

As I look for my next coach, what are the things I should be looking for? What are the questions I should be asking myself, in terms of what I need? And what are the questions I should be asking the potential coach to understand if he or she can meet those needs?”

This question comes from Dana Parker in Bristol, Tennessee. She writes:

“My coach and I have had some differences as of late as to how she should deliver certain messages and plans to me. For example, while she wants to ‘teach’ me how and why to do certain things, I just want to be told what to do. I have a lot going on in life, and the last thing I want to do as I prepare to head out the door to do intervals is to read an email about some scientific principle or physiological mechanism. Just tell me how hard to go, how long to go, and when I can call it a day.

Is there something I can do to help her understand that the ‘why’ isn’t always important to me? Or can you convince me that the ‘why’ is more important than I think it is? Or do I just need to find a new coach?”

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