Our guest on this episode, Gretchen Rubin, writes bestselling books about the routes we can take to find happiness and fulfilment; in the process she's become part of the zeitgeist, even appearing as an answer on Jeopardy!. Her latest book is Life in Five Senses; a guide to using getting out of our heads so we can appreciate all that the world around us has to offer. She joined us in conversation with Hannah MacInnes.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices