Hairspring

Erik & Max pause for a moment to contemplate the last year or two of the deep enthusiast watch market and where things are at this moment. This includes both a macro overview with broad trends and a finer, nuanced take on specific models. In the words of Niels Bohr, ‘It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.’ Nonetheless, there’s a bit of that as well. While they normally shy away from value discussions, this one is all of that at once. Finally, a collection building exercise. If you had 100K for a complicated integrated bracelet watch, is it better to go all in or separate that amount over two watches (one complicated, one integrated bracelet)? It’s a fun one, this. 

Links Mentioned:

Subdial Index:

https://subdial.com/market

100K for an Integrated Bracelet Complication or Split the Amount Between Two Watches?

Max:

https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/journal/a-collector-s-guide-to-the-nautilus-3800

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/iwc/9240-ingenieur-perpetual-calendar-jumbo-yellow-gold/

http://www.onthedash.com/chronograph/af-seafarer-ref-2447/

Erik:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-vacheron-constantin-222-is-the-greatest-thing-since-sliced-bread-which-isnt-all-that-great-but-y

https://hairspring.com/finds/tropical-ed-white-105-003-65-omega-speedmaster/

https://hairspring.com/finds/25686ba-audemars-piguet-royal-oak-quantieme-perpetuel/

Only Wrist:

Max:

https://www.windvintage.com/ikepod-red-manatee-new-old-stock-full-set

https://www.windvintage.com/breitling-unitime-reference-1-260

Erik:

https://www.db1983.com/product-page/jeager-lecoultre-memovox-worldtime-1960s

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/theres-more-from-patek-philippe-and-its-complicated

https://hairspring.com/finds/1415-patek-philippe-world-time/

Erik & Max take a listener question to the extreme: how do you go about learning in watches? Where should you be pulling information from: mainstream media, retailers, auction houses, or even forums? This episode is a deep dive on how to structure learning, or at least how one might approach it. Also, has Gronefeld lost it with the Manueel? Plus, what does the most boring man in the world wear?

Links Mentioned:

Gronefeld’s Grone Manueel:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/intro-gronefeld-brothers-grone-manueel-one

https://www.instagram.com/p/DB-3DUDAOSx/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Single-Model Sites:

https://explorer1016.com

https://gmtmaster1675.com

Revolution’s Mentioned:

https://revolutionwatch.com/the-complete-guide-to-patek-philippe-vintage-chronographs/

PCC on Hodinkee in 2014:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/understanding-the-entire-lineage-of-patek-philippe-perpetual

Langepedia (It’s Alp, not Alf sorry)

https://langepedia.com

Retail-Driver Journalism:

https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/journal/the-story-of-early-f-p-journe

https://www.phillips.com/article/120822636/who-is-philippe-dufour-guide-simplicity-duality-sonnerie

https://www.phillips.com/article/135703213/vacheron-constantin-mercator-history-guide

43031:

https://www.watchbrotherslondon.com/articles/reference-talk-vacheron-constantin-automatic-quantieme-perpetual-ref-43031-and-ref-43032

Ingenieur:

https://goldammer.me/blogs/articles/reference-guide-iwc-ingenieur-sl?srsltid=AfmBOoqy9cCbuKT8nVnU1PGcgsZRwTVZx9EVHhNMTgiBY8as1XQWAn5j

Octa Chronographe:

https://watchesbysjx.com/2022/02/guide-fp-journe-octa-chronographe-watch4moi.html

Rescapement:

https://www.rescapement.com/blog/tag/Cartier

Only Wrist:

https://www.rolex.com/en-us/watches/datejust/m126334-0001

https://bulangandsons.com/products/rolex-explorer-14270-black-out-silver-print-w2987

https://www.longines.com/en-us

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ftc-takes-major-action-against-shinola-demands-where-american-is-made-slogan-to-be-dropped-immediately

You asked, here are the answers. This week, Erik & Max read out and discuss your blistering hot takes, sourced from Instagram. The conversation could not be more varied, from snowflake vs Mercedes to 2499 vs 3970 including stops at Zenith’s 3019, bund straps, and ‘Should full rotors even have display casebooks?’ It’s all here, with an Only Wrist for an art thief. 

Links Mentioned:

Snowcone Hand on 76100:

https://hairspring.com/finds/76100-snowcone-tudor-submariner/

Snowflake Hand on an MN:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/tudor/9401-0-marine-nationale-submariner-steel/

Full Rotors that Deserve Sapphire:

https://www.alange-soehne.com/us-en/timepieces/saxonia/saxonia-automatic/saxonia-automatic-in-950-platinum-380-027

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/vacheron-constantin/4300v-overseas-ultra-thin-perpetual-calendar-skeleton-pink-gold/

Zenith 3019:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/zenith/a386-el-primero-steel/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-inventor-introducing

Moser’s Sense of Humor:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/h-moser-retracts-the-swiss-icons-watch

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/h-moser-swiss-alp-vantablack-watch-hands-on

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/h-moser-swiss-mad-watch-swiss-cheese-limited-edition-venturer-introducing

Thierry Stern:

https://www.screwdowncrown.com/p/patek-philippe-cubitus-criticism-stern-response

Jaeger-Lecoultre:

https://hairspring.com/finds/214-3-62-jaeger-lecoultre-reverso-metiers-tribute-to-ferdinand-hodler/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-jaeger-lecoultre-reverso-tribute-chronograph-2

Fagliano History:

https://monochrome-watches.com/meet-the-makers-casa-fagliano-boot-maker-and-strap-maker-for-jaeger-lecoultre/

Gerald Genoa’s Finnissimo:

https://quillandpad.com/2022/12/06/bulgari-by-gerald-genta-octo-quadri-retro-chronograph-from-2011-embodying-the-past-and-a-possible-future-of-a-once-imperious-haute-horlogerie-leader/

Grand Sport Tourbillon:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/laurent-ferrier-tourbillon-grand-sport-introducing

Bund Straps:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/see-paul-newmans-rolex-daytona-in-a-whole-new-light-in-the-last-movie-stars

https://www.rescapement.com/blog/found-nina-rindts-universal-geneve-nina-rindt

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/finds/3705-iwc-ceramic-flieger-chronograph/

https://www.fpjourne.com/en/collection/only-watch-timepieces/chronographe-monopoussoir-rattrapante-bleu-only-watch-2017

https://watchesbysjx.com/2024/05/fp-journe-chronometre-furtif-bleu-only-watch-2024-review.html

Much as they shy away from topical events, Erik & Max have to ask the obvious this week—but perhaps not in the way you think. While the conversation does come to rest on the Cubitus, this week’s chat is centered around chronicling the last two decades of slow and steady decline at one of the world’s greatest watchmaking houses. It’s not a roast; it’s a plea. From machining marks left bare on the calibre 324 to calibre 31-260 avoiding interior angles like Lange avoids exuberance, it’s all here. Plus, what should a great designer at Chanel wear to mark a success? 

Links Mentioned:

Initial Discontinuation of the 5711 in 2021:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/patek-philippe-ref-5711-nautilus-has-been-discontinued

2008 Departure from the Geneva Seal:

https://www.watchtime.com/wristwatch-industry-news/industry/patek-philippe-create-quality-seal/

https://quillandpad.com/2018/07/07/the-geneva-seal-is-it-really-a-big-deal-archive/

https://www.watchprosite.com/horological-meandering/this-has-been-discussed-at-length-on-the-canadian-forum-so-i-ll-repost-some-of-it-here-/17.1421081.13055676/

https://www.41watch.com/en/blog/patek-philippe-nautilus-5711-geneva-patek-seal-n62

Top of Catalogue Repeaters:

https://collectability.com/product/patek-philippe-white-gold-minute-repeating-wristwatch-ref-5078g-001/

High vs Low Catalogue Finish:

https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-philippe/finish-on-standard-vs-high-end-patek-movements/11.1240336.10258681/

Calibre 324 Issues:

https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-philippe/no-problem-with-size-but-with-finishing-and-overuse--/11.847583.5750998/

https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-philippe/when-did-patek-finish-quality-change--moderator-edit-it-hasn-t-changed-/11.1555431.15271751/

Calibre 31-260 PS QL:

https://www.watchprosite.com/horological-meandering/an-observation-regarding-patek-31-260-ps-ql/17.1421081.13055496/

5303 vs 3939 Calibres (Repeater with Calibre not made to case):

https://hairspring.com/finds/5303r-patek-philippe-minute-repeater/

https://www.phillips.com/detail/patek-philippe/CH080221/40 (the true OG Tourbillon Repeater)

Strategy and Positioning:

Interview:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/patek-philippe-boss-thierry-stern-on-ukraine-rolex-his-succession-plan-his-personal-collection-and-y

1938P Repeater with Face of Philippe Stern on Dial:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-30-piece-limited-series-patek-philippe-minute-repeater-alarm-ref-1938p-in-honor-of-philippe-ster

Square 222: 

https://hairspring.com/finds/46004-vacheron-constantin-square-222/

Cubitus:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/introducing-patek-philippe-cubitus-collection

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/laurent-ferrier/galet-classic-micro-rotor-for-hodinkee-titanium/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-a-lange-and-sohne-1815-rattrapante-now-in-platinum

Erik & Max have a surprisingly deep conversation around some devious watch-based would you rather questions. Plus, what do we make of the WoS Hodinkee move? Independent vs modern is addressed, LF vs Journe, and many other topics. This was intended to be quite unserious but it wound up trending that way. Finally, what should an English rock musician who appreciates US culture wear? 

Links Mentioned:

Hodinkee to WoS:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/04/fashion/hodinkee-sale-watches-of-switzerland.html

WYR:

Tom Brady’s Collection:

https://www.gq.com/story/watches-of-the-week-10-12-24

Coatian Tennis Player Donna Vekić wears Eleganté:

https://x.com/GQMagazine/status/1677709192134524929

IWC Gloves:

https://timeandtidewatches.com/f1-movie-iwc-lewis-hamilton-brad-pitt-pop-culture/

Aquanaut:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/patek-philippe-releases-a-rainbow-aquanaut-luce-minute-repeater-for-ladies

Aquanaut 5063 Set Dial:

https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-philippe/randomly--when-you-thought-you-have-seen-it-all--/11.1387591.12460026/

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/rolex/1675-gilt-exclamation-dial-gmt-master-steel/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/introducing-jn-shapiro-resurgence

https://hairspring.com/finds/tiffany-dial-6263-rolex-daytona-in-14k-yellow-gold/

https://goldammer.me/blogs/articles/valjoux-lecoultre-us-chronograph-guide

Erik & Max are attempting the least-searchable list ever: what are the most un-iconic watches of all time? We all hate browsing listings and auctions only to see iconic watch after iconic watch. It’s meaningless as an adjective. This week’s episode pokes fun at the phrase by finding great watches that no one could possibly call iconic, alternative that are better just not definitely not icons. Erik & Max even dare here to ask what the first Daytona was. Discussion ranges from Phidias to Flageollet and even JLC’s likeness to Lange. Plus, an only wrist for sommelier. 

Links Mentioned:

Awful Day-Date:

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/watches-online-dubai-edit/rolex-day-date-ref-128459tbr-spectacular-gold-diamond-set-wristwatch-20/221019

The Least Iconic Watches:

Lange 1:

https://hairspring.com/finds/fp-journe-octa-reserve-de-marche-straight-line/

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/a-lange-sohne/401-026-1815-chronograph-first-generation-white-gold/

Tank:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/panthere-de-cartier-now-comes-in-extra-large

https://www.analogshift.com/products/cartier-baignoire-s-as09602

https://thekeystone.com/products/iwc-platinum-novcento-perpetual-calendar-ref-3546?srsltid=AfmBOorzlsTGdX6RY5TAPqg9RWHEy-1COqoQdTwzF3ulGCi53oxuAI1F

https://www.the1916company.com/blog/the-audemars-piguet-edward-piguet-perpetual-calendar.html

https://hairspring.com/finds/jaeger-lecoultre-tank-6129-21/

Daytona:

https://hairspring.com/finds/paul-newman-6239-rolex-daytona/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/understanding-the-omega-speedmaster-professional

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/reference-points-tag-heuer-carrera

https://hairspring.com/finds/885103-01-evil-nina-universal-geneve-compax/

Reverso:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/cartier/2499c-cpcp-tank-basculante-yellow-gold/

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/de-bethune/db-kind-of-two-jumping-gmt-titanium/

https://hairspring.com/finds/270-2-69-jaeger-lecoultre-reverso-chronographe-retrograde/

Meeting Denis Flageollet: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv-jEyvfJIE

Royal Oak:

https://ineichen.com/auctions/timed-71/107/

https://us.arbitro.shop/products/vacheron-constantin-phidias-49002-yg-chronograph-white

https://thekeystone.com/products/vacheron-contantin-platinum-333-watch?srsltid=AfmBOoosXOqlwV3XflsvZpeRpc9LqGNVkmtyPGFoO35FAJh1pFWUD79Y

https://hairspring.com/finds/2215-vacheron-constantin-royal-chronometer/

https://www.watchbrotherslondon.com/articles/reference-talk-vacheron-constantin-overseas-1st-generation-ref-42040-42042-and-ref-42050-42052

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/vacheron-constantin/7910v-everest-overseas-dual-time-titanium/

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/vacheron-constantin/4300v-overseas-ultra-thin-perpetual-calendar-skeleton-pink-gold/

Sub:

https://hairspring.com/finds/blancpain-fifty-fathoms-rotomatic/

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/omega/2913-3-meister-dial-seamaster-300-steel/

Calatrava:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/a-lange-sohne/216-027-stealth-saxonia-boutique-edition-white-gold/

https://hairspring.com/finds/onyx-dial-16018-rolex-datejust/

Perpetual Calendar Chronograph:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/patek-philippe/5270r-perpetual-calendar-chronograph-pink-gold/

https://hairspring.com/finds/dore-dial-patek-philippe-3940/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/intro-datograph-perpetual-tourbillon-honeygold-lumen

Datejust:

https://hairspring.com/finds/value-prop-7996-tudor-oysterdate-ranger/

https://goldammer.me/blogs/articles/tudor-ranger-ii-oysterquartz-inspiration

https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/cricket-2

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/finds/2508-patek-philippe-calatrava/

https://hairspring.com/finds/piece-unique-ovitz-patek-philippe-3940r/

Erik & Max finally sync up with Sylvain Berneron to discuss his watches and just why they're being received so distinctly to anything else in the independent space right now. However, the chat doesn't just revolve around Berneron the brand, but Sylvain as a collector, the difficulty of branching out on your own, motorcycles, mid-century Patek, and, yes, even that fracas at Geneva Watch Days. This is the most casual, wide-ranging discussion with Sylvain you'll find, we hope you enjoy.

Links Mentioned:

https://www.berneron.ch/collections

Asymmetrical Observatory Seiko Calibres:

https://thegrandseikoguy.substack.com/p/seikos-astronomical-observatory-chronometer

Andrew Grima Omega:

https://bulangandsons.com/blogs/watch-talks/the-andrew-grima-omega-years

Gilbert Albert Patek Philippe:

https://collectability.com/learn/gilbert-albert-the-genius-designer-who-changed-the-face-of-watchmaking/

The Crash:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/how-the-cartier-crash-became-the-most-important-vintage-watch-of-2021

Desmosedici:

https://www.ducati.com/us/en/heritage/bikes/desmosedici-rr

Mirage 34 Stone Dial

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/hands-on-berneron-mirage-34mm-realizes-its-creators-uncompromising-vision

Background For the Fracas:

https://www.screwdowncrown.com/p/sylvain-supposedly-snapped

3 Questions: 

https://langepedia.com/encyclopedia/lange-1815/1815-up-down/

https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/journal/patek-philippe-3940

https://mrwatchley.com/products/patek-philippe-calatrava-96-steel-breguet-numerals

https://www.alange-soehne.com/ww-en/timepieces/1815/1815-updown/1815-updown-in-18-carat-white-gold-221-027

https://www.phillips.com/detail/patek-philippe/CH080322/53

https://www.phillips.com/detail/patek-philippe/CH080224/175

https://www.phillips.com/detail/vacheron-constantin/CH080215/201

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/finds/serpico-y-laino-dial-6605-rolex-datejust-ovettone-pink-gold/

https://langepedia.com/encyclopedia/lange-1815/

https://www.phillips.com/detail/vacheron-constantin/HK080119/991

Erik & Max are reviving a fan favorite segment: watches that aren’t widely produced, but also have zero attention being shined their way. There are watches everyone loves. Then there are watches that more people should, if only they were more known. This episode is about the latter category. Many, many obscure models here to go researching and learning on. Plus, what should an F-22 pilot wear while flying?

Links Mentioned:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-cartier-tank-cintree

Patek Philippe 5050:

https://www.phillips.com/detail/patek-philippe/CH080122/241

Patek Philippe 5059:

https://thekeystone.com/products/patek-philippe-platinum-perpetual-calendar-retrograde-watch-ref-5059

Patek Philippe 5040:

https://hairspring.com/finds/5040g-patek-philippe-perpetual-calendar/

Cartier CPCP 2646 Perpetual Calendar:

https://www.acollectedman.com/products/cartier-tortue-2646-platinum

Rare Heuers:

https://hairspring.com/finds/volvo-dial-2447nst-heuer-carrera/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/found-vintage-heuer-carrera-car-and-driver

https://www.phillips.com/detail/heuer/NY080222/24

https://hairspring.com/finds/shelby-cobra-dial-3147n-heuer-carrera-dato-12/

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2024/fine-watches-9/reference-3647-carrera-sunray-dx-a-stainless-steel

Rare Breitling:

Superocean & AOPA:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/breitling/1004-superocean-steel/

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/breitling/806-valjoux-72-aopa-navitimer-steel/

Duograph:

https://www.phillips.com/detail/breitling/HK080218/874

Unitime:

https://www.watchprosite.com/horological-meandering/another-day-another-vintage-breitling-unitime-but-this-time-reference-1-260-/17.1403181.12717226/

Zenith S.58:

https://hairspring.com/finds/s-58-zenith-150m-diver/

Zenith A3630:

https://www.fratellowatches.com/dear-zenith-bring-back-the-sub-sea-ref-a3630/

Rolex 6556 Tru-Beat:

https://hairspring.com/finds/single-family-owned-6556-rolex-tru-beat/

Omega Synchrobeat:

https://www.phillips.com/detail/omega/CH080116/115

Rolex 6542:

https://le-monde-edmond.com/in-depth-review-rolex-6542-gmt-master/

Rolex 3135 Bubble Back:

https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080215/207

Million-Dollar Daytonas:

Neanderthal:

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080318/32

Unicorn:

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080318/8

IWC 9232:

https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/iwc-ref-9503-9232-ingenieur-lot-321-54?page=3

https://www.frizzellweb.com/larry/ingenieur/Ingenieur4.html

Eberhard:

https://bulangandsons.com/products/eberhard-scafograf-300-black-gilt-dial-w696

https://www.phillips.com/detail/eberhard/HK080121/1083

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/eberhard/11538-scientigraf-steel/

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/breitling/806-valjoux-72-aopa-navitimer-steel/

https://hairspring.com/exclusives/a-lange-sohne/401-026-1815-chronograph-first-generation-white-gold/

We all know the terms. We all know they’re BS. Today, Erik & Max talk about them no-holds-barred. We assess the hype cycles that are created around watches, the language of persuasion, and how you should go about being aware of these things while making watch decisions. Plus, TAG now have F1. How should they go about it?

Links Mentioned:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/talking-watches-greg-yuna

‘Obsidian’ Onyx Datejusts:

https://hairspring.com/finds/obsidian-dial-1600-rolex-datejust/

https://momentum-dubai.com/products/1970-rolex-datejust-onyx-dial-ref-1600

‘Scholarship-Changing’ Lange 1: 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/a-lange-sohne/CH080224/29

Some Good Background on Stone Dials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQiFrIJ8AVE

Unpolished Debate Comment Section:

https://www.instagram.com/loupethis/p/ChBPOgupTUv/

Only Wrist:

https://hairspring.com/finds/jochen-rindt-2446-heuer-autavia-third-execution/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-inventor-introducing

Erik & Max have another first here, an awards ceremony. This is not the GPHG though, we’re covering a quarter century; go big or go home. Prepare for a dissection of early Journe, stories of a smashed Philippe Dufour, unexpected sales strategies, and descriptions of Max Büsser’s extreme handsomeness. We’re calling these the Balance Cocks. The first of, hopefully, many here. 

Links Mentioned:

Conversation:

Rexhep Rexhepi:

https://www.akrivia.com/watch/chronometre-contemporain-rexhep-rexhepi/

https://www.acollectedman.com/pages/rexhep-rexhepi-chronometre-contemporain-two

MB&F:

https://www.mbandf.com/en/machines/legacy-machines/lm101

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/mb-and-f-lm101-stainless-steel-for-hodinkee

FP Journe:

https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/journal/the-story-of-early-f-p-journe

https://thejourneguy.com/traveling-through-time-with-f-p-journes-resonance-part-2/

Daniels Millenium:

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2023/important-watches-part-i-2/millenium-number-01-a-unique-and-historically

https://www.danielslondon.com/dr-george-daniels-cbe/

Petermann Bédat:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/after-its-second-release-petermann-bedat-have-established-themselves-as-one-of-switzerlands-most-exc

Philippe Dufour:

https://watchesbysjx.com/2021/11/philippe-dufour-grande-sonnerie-wristwatch-no-1.html

https://www.acollectedman.com/products/philippe-dufour-grande-et-petite-sonnerie

https://www.phillips.com/article/120822636/who-is-philippe-dufour-guide-simplicity-duality-sonnerie

The first ever Hairspring Balance Cocks, We Present the 7 Most Significant Independent Watches of the Last 25 Years:

Honorable Mention: Derek Pratt

7. Petermann Bédat 2941 Split Seconds

6. MB&F LM101 for Hodinkee

5. Rexhep RRCCI

4. FP Journe Resonance

3. Daniels Millenium 

2. Philippe Dufour Simplicity

1. Philippe Dufour Grande et Petite Sonnerie

Only Wrist:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/henry-graves-supercomplication

https://watchesbysjx.com/2016/05/a-detailed-look-at-eric-claptons-one-of-a-kind-patek-philippe-ref-5004p.html