When will all the craziness be over? 

It’s the question that seems to be on every American’s mind, and one that many have asked both Russell Moore and George Packer, author and staff writer at The Atlantic. Moore and Packer discuss the exhaustion and rage that have become common in our politics. They discuss partisanship, profitability, and pessimism. They talk about the historical events that have led to our current realities, the effects of secularization on culture, and what it might take for Packer to believe there is a God—and why Packer still, despite all of the chaos, can’t forgo his hope for humanity.

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:

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