It’s Day 4 of the current government shutdown, and the Trump administration is threatening to use the moment to fire federal workers. In this episode, the Opinion columnists David French, Jamelle Bouie and Michelle Goldberg debate what this power struggle means for Democrats, Republicans and, most importantly, the American people.

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This episode of “The Opinions” was produced by Derek Arthur. It was edited by Alison Bruzek and Kaari Pitkin. The rest of the show's production team includes Vishakha Darbha, Kristina Samulewski and Jillian Weinberger. Mixing by Carole Sabouraud. Original music by Isaac Jones, Pat McCusker and Carole Sabouraud. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Kristina Samulewski. The director of Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.