The Chad & Cheese Podcast

Inside DEI Backlash with Dr. Poornima Luthra


Listen Later

In this episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast, the boys interview Dr. Poornima Luthra, a TEDx speaker, associate professor at Copenhagen Business School, and author specializing in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Dr. Luthra discusses her upcoming book, Can I Say That?, which explores the backlash against DEI initiatives, rooted in her 18 years of academic research in talent management and HR.


Key Points:

  1. Background and Motivation: Dr. Luthra’s interest in DEI stems from her PhD research and personal experiences with social inequities as a woman of color. Her work focuses on creating fairer organizational environments.
  2. DEI Backlash: She observes a global backlash against DEI, particularly amplified in the U.S., with ripple effects in Europe. Companies face pressure to remove DEI training and terminology, especially those with U.S. federal contracts.
  3. Fear as a Core Issue: Dr. Luthra identifies fear as the root of resistance to DEI, manifesting in five forms: fear of change, fear of getting it wrong, fear of personal consequences, discomfort with bias, and fear of ineffective actions. These fears affect all groups, not just dominant ones.
  4. Zero-Sum Misconception: The backlash is fueled by a zero-sum view where advancing marginalized groups is seen as diminishing others’ advantages. Dr. Luthra critiques the focus on quotas over systemic and cultural change, which perpetuates this mindset.
  5. Diversity Paradox: Diversity alone doesn’t guarantee positive outcomes like retention or morale without equity and inclusion. Resistance to DEI can increase job dissatisfaction and insecurity, particularly for marginalized groups.
  6. Meritocracy Myth: Dr. Luthra challenges the notion of meritocracy, noting that perceptions of merit are biased by social conditioning around gender, race, and other factors. True meritocratic systems require dismantling these biases.
  7. Corporate Responses: While some companies abandon DEI, others, like Costco, maintain commitments, aligning with customer and employee values. Share price drops for companies retracting DEI efforts suggest market consequences.
  8. Allyship: Dr. Luthra emphasizes allyship through introspection, curiosity, humble acknowledgment of privilege, empathetic engagement, vulnerable interactions, and courageous responsibility. Her book aims to guide everyone in overcoming fears to engage with DEI effectively.
  9. Book Promotion: Can I Say That? is a workplace-focused guide for bridging divides and addressing DEI fears, aimed at both supporters and skeptics. It releases in May 2025 (June/July in the U.S.) and will be available on Amazon and other platforms.


    The episode blends humor, critical analysis, and practical insights, urging listeners to rethink DEI approaches and commit to systemic change despite resistance.


    Chapters

    00:00 - Introduction to Dr. Poornima Luthra

    02:31 - The Personal Journey into DEI

    04:01 - Global Perspectives on DEI Backlash

    05:27 - Understanding Fear in DEI Resistance

    11:21 - The Zero-Sum Game of DEI

    17:49 - The Impact of Resistance on Workplace Dynamics

    21:10 - Meritocracy vs. DEI: A Flawed Concept

    24:56 - Corporate Responses to DEI Challenges

    27:37 - The Role of Allyship in DEI

    31:57 - Promoting the New Book: Can I Say That?

    ...more
    View all episodesView all episodes
    Download on the App Store

    The Chad & Cheese PodcastBy Evergreen Podcasts

    • 4.4
    • 4.4
    • 4.4
    • 4.4
    • 4.4

    4.4

    85 ratings


    More shows like The Chad & Cheese Podcast

    View all
    WSJ Tech News Briefing by The Wall Street Journal

    WSJ Tech News Briefing

    1,638 Listeners

    WSJ Your Money Briefing by The Wall Street Journal

    WSJ Your Money Briefing

    1,714 Listeners

    This Week in Startups by Jason Calacanis

    This Week in Startups

    1,277 Listeners

    The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch by Harry Stebbings

    The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch

    523 Listeners

    Recruiting Future with Matt Alder - What's Next For Talent Acquisition, HR & Hiring? by Matt Alder

    Recruiting Future with Matt Alder - What's Next For Talent Acquisition, HR & Hiring?

    79 Listeners

    Odd Lots by Bloomberg

    Odd Lots

    1,866 Listeners

    Book Lounge by Libby by Book Lounge by Libby

    Book Lounge by Libby

    323 Listeners

    The Next Best Picture Podcast by Evergreen Podcasts

    The Next Best Picture Podcast

    489 Listeners

    Novel Conversations by Evergreen Podcasts

    Novel Conversations

    99 Listeners

    Y Combinator Startup Podcast by Y Combinator

    Y Combinator Startup Podcast

    226 Listeners

    Warriors In Their Own Words | First Person War Stories by Evergreen Podcasts | The Honor Project

    Warriors In Their Own Words | First Person War Stories

    644 Listeners

    Banking Transformed with Jim Marous by Evergreen Podcasts

    Banking Transformed with Jim Marous

    83 Listeners

    The Journal. by The Wall Street Journal & Spotify Studios

    The Journal.

    5,952 Listeners

    FIVE MINUTE NEWS by Evergreen Podcasts

    FIVE MINUTE NEWS

    422 Listeners

    Conflicted: A History Podcast by Evergreen Podcasts

    Conflicted: A History Podcast

    425 Listeners

    All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg by All-In Podcast, LLC

    All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

    9,252 Listeners

    The Josh Bersin Company by Josh Bersin

    The Josh Bersin Company

    56 Listeners

    Dwarkesh Podcast by Dwarkesh Patel

    Dwarkesh Podcast

    425 Listeners

    Medal of Honor Podcast by Evergreen Podcasts

    Medal of Honor Podcast

    51 Listeners

    ReThinking by TED

    ReThinking

    623 Listeners

    The AI Daily Brief (Formerly The AI Breakdown): Artificial Intelligence News and Analysis by Nathaniel Whittemore

    The AI Daily Brief (Formerly The AI Breakdown): Artificial Intelligence News and Analysis

    509 Listeners

    The Ben & Marc Show by Marc Andreessen, Ben Horowitz

    The Ben & Marc Show

    123 Listeners

    BG2Pod with Brad Gerstner and Bill Gurley by BG2Pod

    BG2Pod with Brad Gerstner and Bill Gurley

    470 Listeners

    How I AI by Claire Vo

    How I AI

    4 Listeners