Keeping It Real Podcast • Secrets Of Top 1% REALTORS ® • Interviews With Real Estate Brokers & Agents

Joanne Bolt the founder of RealBossWomen discusses the limiting beliefs and how these ideas limit the development of your business. Next, Joanne talks about how do you decide what do you want to become and what keeps people from being at the top. Joanne discusses the importance of a supporting tribe and how she provides one. Another very important topic for Joanne is realtor safety and she provides suggestions on how minimize the risk on your everyday endeavors. Last, Joanne discusses her podcast and the conference she’s hosting in March.

Get your ticket for Focus Conference here.

Listen to Joanne’s B-Word Podcast by clicking here.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joanne Bolt can be reached through email by clicking here.

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show today’s episode, we’re going to be speaking with Joanne bolt from the B word podcast also real boss women.com. We’re going to be discussing limiting beliefs of real estate agents and how to overcome them. But before we get to Joanne just a couple of quick reminders, please tell a friend I think of one other real estate agent that could benefit from listening to our show, send them a link to our podcast, you can shoot them right over to our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done, and I think we’re right around 350 episodes now somewhere around there. They’re all there you can live stream them. You don’t need to have a special podcast app, you can just listen right from your browser. Or if they are a podcast person just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real hit the subscribe button. And last please leave us a review. If you are listening through a podcast app whether it’s Apple podcasts, iTunes, Google Play Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, etc. Let us know what you think of the show. It really helps us to keep improving, but also gets us more visibility among those podcast directories. So spend a few moments let us know what you think of the show. We really appreciate it but now on to our interview with Joanne bolt.

Today on the show, we have a returning guest Joanne bolt from real badass women.com also the host of the podcast, the B word which we’ll talk about in a moment, but let me first tell you more about Joanne Joanne bolt is a Top Producing real estate agent, a business mentor, a top podcast host and also a speaker. She’s fiercely committed to supporting other women and invests her time and mentoring women in the real estate field and all things they need to know in order to be successful. She’s real engaging, and she tells it like it is with no nonsense and all fun. After seeing numerous women in her life stopped short of seeing the full potential of their careers because of limiting beliefs. She saw the need for more honest conversation about the ups and downs of being a female in real estate in order to show women that they don’t have to have it all together to be successful and get started. She understands that every broker can show you how to do a listing presentation, but few agents will talk to you about the reality of running your household and real estate empire at the same time. From there the real boss women community the annual events and the B word podcast were born with a motto that we show women the shit they don’t they didn’t know they needed to know. Now visit Joanne at her website which is real boss women.com And also please subscribe to our podcast b word which is available everywhere podcasts are served Welcome once again Joanne

Joanne Bolt 4:23
Hey, thanks for having me back. I love it.

D.J. Paris 4:25
Yeah, you know I really happy to have you on the show. again and we there’s always so much to talk about I always think to being a woman obviously I’m not a woman in this industry is such a unique experience. And I think women account for like 66% of all realtors are

Joanne Bolt 4:45
667 According to Nar it’s

D.J. Paris 4:49
amazing to me because there is like a national association of of women realtors, which is amazing. But there really I don’t think is enough conversation around the experience of being a woman in this industry, and I have I talk to top producers, well all the time on our show, but even just in my private life, I’m shocked at how often I will hear them say, and these are top producers like yourself, they’ll say things like, you wouldn’t believe the way sometimes men speak to me. And I go really even as a top producer, and you’re like, yeah, sometimes, you know, sometimes it can get tricky. And so I think, you know, it’s, it’s something that doesn’t get discussed as much,

Joanne Bolt 5:28
it really doesn’t. And that’s what I found. When I, when I started coaching and mentoring agents, I really discovered that there’s this common theme that happens amongst the women, realtors, and it’s sometimes we just need to talk about the shit we’re not supposed to talk about, you know, and it’s, it’s not stuff your broker can help you with. It’s not stuff that’s going to get taught at any other conference or a class you’re going to attend. But it’s the reality of being being the girl in real estate.

D.J. Paris 5:54
Yeah, well, it’s amazing to because women, I mean, we all know the pressures that women face in our in our society, which is, you’re all you’re supposed to be perfect in every possible way you’re supposed to is Oh, and you’re supposed to have an amazing career. So if there’s children, you’re supposed to, you know, be in charge of all of that. And you know, and right now, during the pandemic, a lot of it has fallen on women’s backs to take care of the education and making sure that you know, the kids are sitting in front of their zoom meetings, although hopefully, some of them are back to school at this point, not all God. But it’s still it’s an amazing amount of work. And I’ve also always heard the expression, if you want to get something done, give it to give it to a busy mother. So so it is it is amazing, and which is a cute thing. And we all laugh about it because it is true busy moms just get a lot done. And of course, not just not just mothers get things done that are women. But this idea that a woman can run her real estate career, have a family or a home life or a primary relationship that also gets the attention it needs, and really do everything in a way that’s healthy. Again, yeah, you’re right. I don’t think it’s talked about enough. And it’s like really hard to do.

Joanne Bolt 7:04
And most of us are doing it between the hours of nine and three. Yeah, because the reality is, once the kids are home from school or off their zoom, you can tell them not to come into your office, all you want, you can tell them not to interrupt you all you want. But yeah, they’re going to. And so we do most of our work from 9am to 3pm. And then after that, we really have to juggle all the things in order to make life run. Well, I

D.J. Paris 7:31
would love to dive right into today, which I know we wanted to talk about some limiting beliefs. And I don’t know if these will touch on this idea of perfection that that we expect from from women, which is completely unfair and unrealistic. But I would love to get into some of these limiting beliefs that I think are that you think are really holding women back in this in the real estate space. Yeah,

Joanne Bolt 7:54
so my, my biggest limiting belief I see women have is this doesn’t need to be the primary career for your family, that it’s a side hustle, or that they’re just doing this to pick up a little bit of extra money for the family to take a vacation or to pay for, you know, your spa treatments that you enjoy having and you don’t want your husband to always know about that you’re spending money on No, not like I’ve ever done that. And their limiting belief really does prevent them from doing the business at the highest level because they don’t see themselves as the breadwinner of the family. And whether they are are it doesn’t matter, they don’t see that they should or could be and therefore they miss a lot of opportunities to grow their business. Because they don’t, they don’t do all the lead generation and they don’t sit down and do the p&l, and they don’t look at it as a business business. They look at it as a side business or a hustle. And there’s a huge difference between that

D.J. Paris 8:50
I’ve never been a huge fan of the word side hustle. And I feel like maybe that words thankfully starting to phase out a little bit. But for many years, it was a real popular and I heard it more with women, especially busy moms who wanted to pick up some extra income on the side. But I don’t know how many people were successful with their side hustle. I think eventually, side hustles ultimately can turn into full time businesses, but it is really tough, right? Like really tough. We know, work so hard. Now Yeah.

Joanne Bolt 9:21
If you don’t give your mind fully to something to do, then it’s never gonna get to where it could be. And you never know the full potential of it. And so there’s no reason to sit back and say, Oh, well, this isn’t the primary for my family. This isn’t anything but a side job or a side hustle.

D.J. Paris 9:38
So if you were to replace that for some any of our listeners that, you know, sort of our I would assume the vast majority of our listeners maybe well, I don’t know maybe they do think that way I don’t know because we don’t get too much demographic information about our listeners. But I’m curious on if you you know, what would you say as a replacement belief for that?

Joanne Bolt 9:58
That this is Mike harir Yeah, flat out. And I know that that sounds simple. And it sounds like, you know, a lot of people are saying that they, they kind of look me with the dog look on their face. But a lot of them don’t ingrain that in their brain, they look at it and go, Oh, no, I picked this career, because I can go, you know, to the preschool during the day and drop off muffins with, you know, mommies and muffins, or because I can go play tennis three times a week, or because I can because I can. And they don’t recognize that that career really is a career. Yeah. And it doesn’t matter. If you’re working five hours a week, or 50 hours a week, it is still a career, and you need to look at it as such. So the obvious is the career,

D.J. Paris 10:41
it is a career. And we’re not necessarily saying career has to be full time, right? Because most moms, you know, working moms, you know, that’s a lot to juggle, and it doesn’t mean you’re going to be putting in 90 hours every week and not sleeping. I mean, you could certainly choose to go that route. But that’s not what really Joanne is talking about, we’re talking about creating just a healthy understanding of here’s how much time I can put into my business, or here’s how much time I’m willing to, and I’m in whatever amount that is assuming it’s a reasonable amount. I can that is my career.

Joanne Bolt 11:14
And honestly, that leads me into my second limiting belief, which is that you in order to be a super successful agent, you have to work 40 hours a week, or you have to work on weekends. Yeah, the truth is, a successful career for you is whatever really does meet the needs of your family, whether you become the primary breadwinner, or it meets whatever financial goals, you and your partner, or you and your kids, or you yourself has set for you. And you can sell 100 homes a year and not work on weekends, it can be done, I’ve done it. So that limiting belief that in order to be that top agent, or that super successful agent and not look at this as a side hustle is that I have to give up all my spare time and, and devote myself to the job that I’d like to shatter that belief because I know a lot of agents that literally do work from 10 to three, four days a week, and sell 15 million in the first quarter of the year. I myself haven’t worked a Sunday in four years. And I’m at the top of my field. So Don’t set yourself short by saying I have to work so much.

D.J. Paris 12:23
So now what what I’m hearing from our invisible audience at this moment is that sounds great. However, what happens when I have a client who says I can only go look at properties at Sunday at noon or 12? You know, 2pm and you are like, Hey, that’s my mom time, or that’s my family time or whatever, you’re busy, you know, and you’ve said you haven’t worked to Sunday. So how do you how do you work with that? Because I know realtors, often one, it’s one of the great reasons that realtors are successful is their people, people pleasers, right we want to be, we want to meet people where they’re at and whatever time they have. Realtors are notoriously challenged around setting boundaries. So what we’re really talking about is setting boundaries. So you have somebody who says, Hey, this is what I can do. And you now it bumps up against. Well, no, that’s my that’s my chuck, you know, I’m going ice skating with the kids or something. How, what do you do in that scenario?

Joanne Bolt 13:23
So there’s two things I normally do. And the second one is going to blow a lot of agents brains out there. Okay. The first one is I’m always upfront with my clients, I don’t work on Sundays, this is my family time. And this, you know, and I don’t really have to explain it. But please don’t ask me to show a home on Sunday afternoon. If it truly is the only time you can see a home maybe because today we’re in the market where if a home comes on the market, it’s gone four hours later, I will have someone in my organization or team who can meet you. But you need to know ahead of time that it’s not going to be me. Are we okay with this. And if we are we can keep moving forward. The second one, the one that

D.J. Paris 14:04
I just want, I want to pause for don’t forget your second one because I apologize. I’m interrupting Joanne, which is a horrible quality of mine. So I apologize. Interrupting women, by the way is also never a good idea I’ve learned in my life having been in relationships with women. So I apologize. However, I did want to say this is what she said is very, very profound. And I just want to pause for a moment and realize what she did is she didn’t say she gets the phone call on Sunday morning at 9am and says hey, I want to go see this property. And the person goes, well, I want to see it at noon and she goes well that says my date day off, or my day with my family, not a day off and probably never a day off from others. But this idea that she initially when she’s talking to her clients, she sets the boundaries. She tells them hey, here’s what I’m available. And oh by the way, if you need something at a very specific time, it’s the old anytime it can be done, I will do my best to make sure I have somebody to assist you with that. However, this is when I’m available. So there is no misunderstanding, there is no miscommunication. Now, again, you might have clients that test those boundaries, of course, like children, their parents, yeah, but but this is really, really critical. And I think a lot of agents are afraid to to say things like that. And I think most human beings are reasonable people, not everybody. But I think most people most of us go if my accountant, for example, who I would never expect to work on a weekend, by the way, because that’s not really when accounting stuff happens. But if if all of a sudden on a Sunday, I needed and she has never told me Don’t bother me on a Sunday, but but if I did, I wouldn’t expect to hear back from her. But if she wrote back and said, even on Monday, hey, I got your message on Sunday, I wasn’t able to get back to you as my family time. Just so you know, here are my hours. I’d be like, that makes sense. I get it. So I think most people will be understanding of that. But anyway, I just wanted to pause because I think what you said was really, really profound. But she didn’t wait until Sunday morning to then tell somebody Oh, I can’t do it today. I’m sorry, go ahead with your second one, because that was so good.

Joanne Bolt 16:10
So here’s the brain, mind blown moment, right? If you don’t want to adhere by those rules, I don’t work with you. Yeah, and it really is that simple for me, because I have nailed down who my niche client is who my ideal client is. And I let go of that limiting beliefs. So here’s the third limiting belief that I have to work with everyone in order to be successful. And the truth is, if you can’t respect that, I’m not going to work on Sundays, that you’re probably not going to be the client I’m going to enjoy working with, we’re not going to have a great relationship. And you need to go find an agent who works better to suit your needs. And I’m okay, letting a client go to find an agent that they’re better suited for than to keep a client that we’re both going to have a bad experience because I get resentful always having to tell them I can’t work on Sunday, and they get resentful always having to ask me to. And part of that really comes with, I’ve done a really good job over the years of defining my ideal client and, you know, catering to is the wrong word. But I know who I want to work with. That’s who I’m market to. That’s who I advertise to I have defined that and niche down into it. So honestly, most the time, if I get a client, I don’t actually have to have that conversation. They know enough about me to know, I’m not going to work on Sundays, and it’s okay.

D.J. Paris 17:32
Yeah, I totally agree. And I think we’re moving on, you know, we, we get so scared as agents to ever say no, to a client request, especially if we’re newer to the industry, we want to close every deal because probably we don’t have so many deals coming in at the beginning. And you know, it’s it’s, it can be very difficult to say, you know, I’m sorry, I can’t meet meet that need it. But once you learn how to say no, what I think that ends up doing, as long as you have reasonable sort of boundaries, you know, things that are reasonable, like if you tell your client, hey, by the way, here’s when I’m available to, you know, respond to a text message or an email, or by the way, here’s the best way to reach me, you know, don’t text me because that doesn’t work for me, or don’t email me or don’t, you know, you can tell your clients the best way to reach but I think, you know, setting boundaries around oh, by the way, if you text me at 11pm at night, guess what, I’m asleep, my kids are asleep, I won’t be responding to that. Now, there are plenty of realtors who just go screw the boundaries, I’m going to I’m going to respond at you know, 2am in the morning to sorry, 2am No matter what, because I want to be that fast. And that’s great and fine and whatever. But I suspect without healthy boundaries, you’re going to burn out, you’re just going to as an agent, you’re just going to get to get to a point where your clients, they know they can reach you at anytime, day or night. And now there’s an expectation that you have to respond because you have them. Because if all of a sudden if you respond at midnight, let’s and again that’s a really extraordinary thing. You’re going to date that Yeah, well, let’s just say you do one time. And then all of a sudden, what happens the next night if it comes in at 10pm. Well, that’s even earlier than midnight. And now all of a sudden you’re like, gosh, I was watching a show I was relaxing, I was having a glass of wine or whatever, or I was just playing with the kids or hanging out with whoever. I better respond. And so I think it creates this vicious cycle of you got to you got to be able to say look, any other profession. You can’t just like call an attorney up at you know, midnight on on a Wednesday answer. Yeah, they’re not going to do that. But we all all we automatically know that sort of in our society. We’ve been trained that a lot of professions are nine to five and real estate oftentimes isn’t. So I think this is really important is defining it for your clients. And you do it in and you get them to sign off

Joanne Bolt 19:51
and given yourself permission to define it. And that I think is where a lot of agents go wrong. They they really do They, you know, they can’t see 90 days out, they can only see in 30 day increments because that is the average contract that we do. They get scared that next month, they don’t already have closings on the books. So they therefore are terrified at 90 days out because they really don’t have anything on the books. And oh my gosh, I depend on commission, and they don’t give themselves permission to set the boundaries. And let me tell you something. Clients are like puppies. Okay, if you send a puppy to boarding school, and it comes home or training school, and you’ve done training, and you tell that puppy you can’t get on the couch, you can’t get on the couch if you can’t get on the couch. And then one night, you have a glass of wine and it’s cold outside and you want to snuggle up with the puppy on the couch and you let the puppy on the couch. Good luck getting that dog ever off that couch again, because that puppy is like, Nope, she broke the rules. All I got to do is give him my puppy eyes. So they’re the same thing. If you tell a client, I’m not gonna go out on Sundays. And then you go out on Sunday, guess what? You’re gonna keep expecting it.

D.J. Paris 21:01
Yeah, it’s it’s the West. Speaking of puppies, I have my 13 and a half year old, old lady Chihuahua is underneath my desk right now, who has a whole sorts of health issues, but she’s hanging in there. Anyway, I could talk about that all day. But but when I first got her 13 and a half years ago, I hired a trainer. And the funniest part. And I think this is for anyone who has who has a new dog, please hire a trainer, because the trainer came in. And she she looked over the dog and my dog was Gosh, I don’t even remember how old you know, I don’t know, if six months, maybe nine months, something like that. And she goes, okay, yeah, your dog works perfectly. And I go, well, not really like the dogs. If she goes, it’s you. That doesn’t work perfectly.

Joanne Bolt 21:40
My trainer told me he’s like, Yeah, I have to train you more than the dog. I’m like,

D.J. Paris 21:45
Oh, 100% and dogs are you know, for you know, dogs, of course are a little different than humans. But but as far as behavior, you know, we learn by repetition, we learn by by consistency. And what you’re saying is so, so important. So it goes to my point about if you respond at midnight on a Tuesday, and again, you want to you’re doing it, there’s a real positive intention there of you wanting to help the client. But now you’ve also set an expectation that that’s when you’re available.

Joanne Bolt 22:15
And you know, you don’t have to come across as a unwilling agent, when you tell your clients like please don’t call me past 10 o’clock at night or nine o’clock, or even seven o’clock. I, I tend to be very real and authentic with my clients and think that they appreciate that more. So I will laugh with them and be like, listen, I could answer your texts at 10 o’clock. But there’s a high likelihood I’ve had a glass or three of wine, and you really don’t need me to answer your texts at 10 o’clock. And the minute you you know, you laugh with them about that they’re way more understanding than if you’re just like, I only work eight to five, don’t call me after no be human, be real with them. And they’re much more likely to respond to your boundaries in a positive way.

D.J. Paris 22:56
And for me 100% And just like with a puppy, I have my dogs now Now obviously, an elder canine citizen, but, but I still make mistakes, right? I’m still not perfect. So there are times where you might all of a sudden realize, oh, my gosh, I just now set the expectation that I am available at a certain time because, you know, I responded. And what you can always do if you’re transitioning out of always being available and people are still messaging is, is you could always if you want to until you really have those boundaries well defined, just say great idea or great question. I’ll get back to you first thing in the morning. Like, if that’s what you have to do to at least they will feel bad, they will automatically reply to you and go I am so sorry for bothering you. Because that’s what we do. When we hear somebody says great idea. Let me get back to you first thing in the morning or oh my gosh, I didn’t realize it was late or no problem. Have a good evening. And

Joanne Bolt 23:50
that remember, you have to train yourself to set boundaries because no one has trained you to do that. Yeah. Industry have trained you not to

D.J. Paris 24:00
what other limiting beliefs are coming out. I think we’re on our fourth one now. Gosh, there’s so many limiting what did we or did we hit? Do we hit on all of them already?

Joanne Bolt 24:07
Well, that’s a lot of my main four, I would say my other limiting belief, especially in the in the realm of being the girl is that we can’t be the CEO, we can’t really be the owner of the business. You know, we can’t separate the business from the personal aspect. And that comes a lot from watching. You know, the high D agents out there. They struggle a lot in their offices, because when you’re at the top, it gets really lonely. And so they tend to you know, they’re perceived as unapproachable. They’re perceived as not fun to be around, because they’re just doing all the things that they have to do to run the business. And so a lot of women stopped themselves from getting to the top level because they’re like, oh, I don’t want to be like that or I don’t want to be perceived that way or I don’t want people to think of me like I’m all All business and no clay. And the truth is if we just shatter that little limiting belief, and no, it’s all in how you react to people as to whether they perceive you as being unapproachable and cold at the top, and then you can start to see the opportunities around you. But if you don’t want to get there, because you’ve made a, you know, a decision about someone else who’s above you, and that you think you have to be that way, in order to be at the top, you’re never going to see the opportunities that are there.

D.J. Paris 25:27
I think, too, I think you’re so right. And I had a very, very smart person in my life, many years ago, who was a really skilled coach. And one of just the wisest people I’ve ever met. And he had said, most people really aren’t afraid of success as much as they’re afraid of sorry, I said it backwards. They’re not as afraid of failure as their of success. Because as you said, they might see somebody who has what what in their mind, they think that would be great. And then they go, but look at all this stuff, I have to give up, look, we will who I have to become, now I have to become the unapproachable person now other people are going to resent me and envy me, maybe in my office, they’re going to look at me and go, Why is she doing? So? Why are he Why is he? Why is no? Why is he so lucky? Yeah. Why would I want to be? Why would I want to have? Why would I want other agents to be like, she got another listing? Or, you know, whatever. Yeah, I mean, these are, these are real things that happen, let’s not pretend that people at the top don’t have, you know, some arrows kind of being pointed at them. Of course they do.

Joanne Bolt 26:36
Let me tell you, when I was running my team at one of the brokerages, I was the number two team in the office, and I never let myself get to number one. And I never went to the monthly team meetings to accept the awards. Because what I found was, the more I did that, the less the newer agents wanted to pop into my office and ask for advice, the more unapproachable, they thought that I was, and I wanted them to come in, like I love mentoring agents. And so clearly a super nice person, I mean, you know, but you can be perceived all kinds of ways. And so I quit doing the things that put me at the top, because I just didn’t want agents to not feel that they could come approach me. And when I did that, it actually did make a difference. And so, you know, we all carry our own limiting beliefs on how high up in this business, we can really get in some of its our own myths, misconceptions.

D.J. Paris 27:28
I also, I think, I am so glad you had the that you had the vulnerability and the courage to share that because I am an awareness of what stopped you and not that you need to be number one, of course, nobody needs to be anything. But if you want to be at a certain level, I think too. And I’m just going to interrupt myself, because I’m curious to get your take on this. I really think the business planning portion of being a realtor is not talked about as much. There’s a lot of people that do talk about it. But it isn’t really built into a typical curriculum of like how to be a successful realtor. It’s like, what do you want your life to look like? What do you want your the perception, you know, to be of you as a as an agent, from your clients from other agents? It’s really, what are the clients I want to work with? You talked about having a well defined list of even who you want to work with. I think most people haven’t even figured that out. And I’m not saying, Look, I know why they haven’t figured it out. It’s not really taught that much. So can we talk a little bit about sort of defining what you do want in this business so that you can start moving toward, as opposed to just going well, I don’t want to be, you know, I don’t I don’t you know, there’s a lot of like, I’m worried about sort of what’s going to happen to me. So how do you sort of take ownership agency of that and go, here’s what I want to become?

Joanne Bolt 28:52
I think the first thing you have to decide is what you don’t want to become? Yeah, you know, like, I didn’t want to become the agent who worked seven days a week, and who looked up and realized my kids went to college, and I don’t remember their baseball games, you know, because I only got to attend some of them. And so when you start with what you don’t want to do, then it becomes a lot clearer on what you do want to do. And when I looked around and said, You know, I, I’m not going to work seven days a week, I’m just not going to do it. I thought okay, of my last eight years in the business, which clients were more likely to call me on a Sunday. And I found that there were two categories and I’ll be open about that. It was the men, you know, the corporate men, sure, or it was the new young first timers, because they are all hopped up on like the, you know, the high and the euphoria of buying a home. And so they they’re the ones who are getting on Zillow at three o’clock in the morning and calling you at, you know, 10am

D.J. Paris 29:51
they have all the time in the world,

Joanne Bolt 29:52
time in the world energy and yeah, and it’s funny that I kind of gave up the corporate men and the first time homebuyer And I really started focusing more on the families that are kind of in certain stages of life. And they were more close to my stage of life, and what I was going through at the time, and I found we had more to talk about, they were more flexible with how I wanted to run my business and the time involved. And they were more interesting for me to work with, quite frankly. And so I started really defining that, and niching down into that, but it really also is taking ownership of a p&l and understanding as a business owner, that if I want to make this amount of money, and I’m gonna spend this amount of money on admin, or broker fees, or whatever else it is, I might have to give up doing this piece of the business, because I’m not going to work on Sunday. And so I’m going to give up some business, you know, or I might want to give up going to this conference, or I might want to give up this event in my life. But I need to add in this, this and this in order to achieve and being open to, you know, coaching, and mentors who have been there and done that guiding me along the way and building the business, you cannot do this by yourself.

D.J. Paris 31:07
And I think that leads us into something that I know you’re super passionate about. And I have the exact same feelings, which is finding a supportive tribe. In this in this industry. Can you talk a little bit about what that means and why you’re why it’s so important to you. It

Joanne Bolt 31:23
again, it goes back to my days in the office, I found that I was super lonely at the top. And I think I think it’s super lonely at the bottom too, by the way, because we by nature are we come from a or we’re told to come from a thought process of abundance. But the truth is, we have a scarcity mindset because we never know where the next client is going to come from. And so if you hit struggles, you had no one to really talk to, if you had successes, you had no one to really talk to. Or if you had the random crap that you’re like, I don’t even know if this pertains to the business, but I just need to vent and get it out of my system. I didn’t have those people. And I’ve always heard you know, you are the sum of the five you surround yourself with. And I really struggle with acts, I was like, Listen, I want to hit here in my business. And I’m just not sure there’s anyone around me at that level that can really push me to that next one. And I kept having to go seek them, seek them seek them. And when you start finding your tribe of people, you start realizing they have the same struggles you do they have the same insecurities you do. They’ve been in your shoes or, or they need to hear from you because you’ve been in their shoes. And it really gets to where there’s no judgment. There’s no hypocrisy, there’s no gossiping, it’s just hey, this is what’s going on in the business, what’s my next step and even talk about it. And when you can do that you can hash out those thoughts about the business and what you want to do or what you’ve been through and kind of get it off your shoulder. And the path just clears a little bit more for you. And it’s a lot easier to walk down that path.

D.J. Paris 32:57
I could not agree more. And I for those who are listening who are thinking, Well, how do I how do I do that? How do I start finding my my supportive tribe, you have some suggestions or advice about what they might do to start finding those people that they can share, share their life experiences with and support each other.

Joanne Bolt 33:16
You can go on Instagram, you can go on Facebook, you can go on Google, and you can start hunting, read some books, let’s listen to some good podcast, you’re gonna get some great, great people that come on podcast and speak and, and you might be able to follow something that they’re leading. I lead a group called real boss women, I’ll be open and honest. It’s a broker agnostic group. I started just for the women in real estate, or our industry. And we have a lot of conversations about everything from what’s the best way to do social media to run your business to, hey, I’m a team owner, and I just had a team member leave and she was with me for four years. And I just want to curl up in a ball because emotionally it wrecks me that she left my team, like we’ve got all those conversations that go on. And you can find your tribe in any of those groups, you just got to keep bouncing around until you find the one that fits you.

D.J. Paris 34:10
What’s great, too about about having a tribe and I have a men’s group that I meet with, it’s the same men’s group I’ve met with I meet every other Monday. And we talk about our lives and our lives. And one of the expressions we have in there is all of you is welcome here meaning your anger is welcome. Your fears are welcome. Your sadness is welcome. And also all the good stuff is welcome to the fun stuff. But it’s a place where you can bring the hard stuff. And most of us especially if you know our partner isn’t also in real estate or isn’t isn’t of the same gender or gender identity and is just having a totally different experience because of the way we differentiate how we treat you know, different genders. And so this is a really important need and to be able to have those kinds of communications with other people. People who are just like you who want that, that connection and the ability to say, I need help, and not so much I need, you know, professional help, but just I just need somebody to talk to about this thing. And it is it’s, it’s, it’s intimate, it’s vulnerable, it’s healing. And, and it’s in, it’s also being of service to others. And it’s, it’s really just, it’s transformed my life, I’ve been doing it for 10 or 11 years, I wouldn’t change it, it’s, it’s just about the most important thing in my life. So I could not agree more and real boss woman has that, that that group they have, they have that function. So we really encourage, I think everybody needs support, everybody needs help. And this is a great opportunity to feel like oh, by the way, I’m not alone.

Joanne Bolt 35:47
And the thing I really set out to do in this group was established subsets within it. So we’ve got a monthly mastermind for our moms, we’ve got one for our team owners, we have one at the beginning of the month, where everyone comes together, and we do some form of industry learning or teaching kind of moment. I mean, this month, I taught on systems and apps that you didn’t even know you needed in your business, you know, and so and then we get to talk about all of it. And sometimes we laugh and sometimes we cry, and sometimes we you know, have to pull our big girl panties up and just move on with the business because someone will tell us that we’re being stupid, you know, and, and we’ve got that and the best thing about that it in my world is it doesn’t matter what broker you’re at. So don’t come at me just from a, you know, a REMAX perspective, or just from an Anthony Atlanta perspective, or just from a kW perspective, you know, perspective, I’m exp, I don’t care, because we are all doing the same business. We’re just choosing to do it in different platforms. So we’ve all got the same issues.

D.J. Paris 36:49
Yeah, I really encourage everyone to find a tribe, or certainly check out Joanne’s website, real boss woman.com and join join Joanne’s group and really get a good sense of, of women supporting women. I just think, you know, it’s so funny to like, us men. I don’t think we’re smart enough to put something like that together. Right.

Joanne Bolt 37:10
There’s a Women’s Council of

D.J. Paris 37:12
work. Yes. Yeah. Maybe we’re smart enough. But we’re, no, no, I would say we’re not smart enough. Because there is like there is a Women’s Council of Realtors, which is such a wonderful organization. There is

Joanne Bolt 37:21
no, that group I do. And it’s you know, and I’ve learned a lot from that group. This one just we get a little bit more. You know, I mean, last month, we laughed with the moms group over mom guilt for not wanting to go in all the time and doing muffins with mom. Yeah, like, yeah, these are the kinds of things that yet we’re gonna teach you this stuff to move your business forward and laugh with you about the other stuff. And that’s kind of the difference.

D.J. Paris 37:45
So the takeaway is, please find your tribe and.com robots. woman.com has a wonderful tribe to explore as well. And I want to sort of wrap up, I know we were going to talk about sphere of influence stuff. But I actually want to talk about safety. Just on the topic of I think women have to face this particular issue much more than men, I think most of us would agree, realtor safety. And it’s something that even on the show, we just recently had a safety expert Come on. But we’ve only done one episode on safety after over 350 episodes, so I need to talk more about it as well. And Joanne said something very important when we were asking her what you want to talk about today. She goes, it’s literally the most important topic that’s least discussed. And so I just want to spend a few minutes on this. And a lot of it too is please don’t skip past this as Oh, this is just common sense stuff, because it isn’t, and it happens. If you work in this industry long enough, you will be in a position at least once a hopefully never but probably once where all of a sudden you you know, you start to get a feeling like maybe this isn’t the most safe idea. And women have to just be more conscious of this sadly than than us man. But can we talk a little bit about what safety means to you? And maybe some suggestions you have,

Joanne Bolt 39:00
oh, my gosh, I could go on for this one for hours. It’s one of my hot buttons, because I actually left the industry in 2006 after being abducted by a buyer right out of my office. Most people who know me know that story. I know you and I have discussed it before. Yes. It’s still not talked about a lot in the industry. And I actually had a broker two years ago. Tell me I wasn’t allowed to give my speech to their office. Wait for it. Because it would scare women out of real estate and his job is to grow the office. Oh, sure.

D.J. Paris 39:36
Well, his needs are more important than yours.

Joanne Bolt 39:39
Clearly, you know? Yes, there are the standard thoughts of do not go meet a buyer that you don’t know that you haven’t checked out. I mean, yeah, we’ve all heard those. I got taken from my office at a buyer console. I mean, I did meet them an open house. I didn’t show up by myself. I went to the office. So if I could give you One biggest piece of safety advice is everyone in our family has live 360 on our phones, or on our watches, or on some, something that’s going to be on all the time that anyone else in the family can push a button and kind of get a general idea of where you are. So if I’m not home, by the time I told my husband, and he can’t reach me by text message, he can hit live 360 and get an idea of where I am. And if I’m not where he thought I should be, he can get a little concerned and, and I do tell that to a lot of women, and they’re like, I don’t want my husband’s checking up on me, or the guys are like I don’t want my wife knowing where I am all the time. That’s like stalker, you know, it’s a safety issue. You guys, when I was abducted, I did not have an opportunity to call for help. No one knew where I was, we didn’t have live 360 back then. But now you’ve got tools, there are some really fantastic bracelets out there that they sell now that look like really good jewelry. And you can literally just kind of press your hand down on it, and it will call 911 for you and alert them to your location. And it doesn’t even come across as a safety feature. It’s just, I’m not comfortable, I need some help here. And they’ll send help to you. So letting having the technology that we have today and utilizing some of that so that someone always can track you down. It’s just not a bad idea, especially as a female, because you just don’t know. And oh, by the way, just having someone call their lender and get pre approved means nothing. Because they can call the lender, they can give fake information, they can send a fake ID over, they can get pre approved and the person who meets you at the door doesn’t match the ID that got sent your lender and guess what, nine times out of 10 your lender doesn’t send you that Id anyway, they just send you a pre approval letter. Well, you think because your buyer took the time to do that, but they’re legit. No, that does not mean it. So unless you really do know them, you never show up somewhere by for the first time ever.

D.J. Paris 42:09
So what

Joanne Bolt 42:11
is right there and one

D.J. Paris 42:13
really great, really great advice. And I’m I you know and I really am saddened to, to hear again about about obviously we know you are okay today. But the idea that somebody would would do that in your office is is really, you know, unfortunate, obviously, and, and scary. And is there anything that agents can do prior to the meeting, to really get a sense of who this person is? To me, the first thought that comes to my mind, and I want you to correct me if there’s there, I’m sure there’s better ways to do this, is to even say, Hey, I know we haven’t met before. As a safety protocol, my office asks that I get a copy of your driver’s license or and I don’t even know if that would really be all that helpful. But are there suggestions you have that can be done in advance that agents can do to minimize the amount of risk? I definitely

Joanne Bolt 43:05
think that that is one of them, the more hoops your person has to jump through the less likely they are to, you know to proceed? We actually did get the driver’s license, it was not real of the person that took me because they were in it for the lot like they Yeah, they had really thought this through now they average I think person who’s going to do you harm, the more hoops you make them jump through the less likely they are to proceed with whatever you’ve got going on. But it’s just one of those things that the least amount you can put yourself in the potential for harm the better you are and not jumping up on you know if a if a buyer calls and says oh, I got your name from so and so and you happen to know so and so and like, Oh, I’m just gonna go meet you out here because this house has a hotline and we have to go look at it being okay to say no to a client until you hit figured out if it’s a safe situation is worth way more than that commission. I don’t care what that commission is. So taking time to slow down yourself as an agent and trust your gut instinct if your gut says it’s off its off period

D.J. Paris 44:12
yeah, I’ve learned that in life that my intuition is some is rarely almost never wrong. I might not always understand why I’m having the intuition to

Joanne Bolt 44:24
want to ignore it but it gave us our intuition for a reason.

D.J. Paris 44:30
And that’s a really important thing it is it is a it is something inherent in us and it keeps us safe and also you know look do not meet a buyer for the first time unless they’re you know them at the showing right like go somewhere public where you know a Starbucks or whatever. And again, I know most people who have listened to this already know that but but really have a bracelet have an app that’s always on that and have safety people in your life that know your schedule, whether it’s family or whether you just have an agreement with other realtors who you go, you know what, here’s my scheduled for today, I’m gonna be checking in with you

Joanne Bolt 45:06
with you, even if it’s another email two on one is a lot more likely to detour someone than one on one.

D.J. Paris 45:16
And in the last few minutes we have I want to talk about, by the way, great, great safety structures, we want all of our listeners to have wonderful safe careers. So thank you for for making that a priority to talk about today. It really, really appreciate that. I know our listeners do. I want to spend the last few minutes talking about you know what you’ve got going on. So you have a podcast. Let’s talk about it.

Joanne Bolt 45:38
Alright, so I started the podcast is called it’s called the B word with Joanne bolt. The B word is a play on my last name is bolt. And you can kind of be a itch sometimes in this business when you’re a high D like myself. And so I started that podcast, we do two episodes a week one episode is an interview with another person in the industry. And then on Thursdays, I draw quick tips where I do give you just some good advice on being an agent and how to get your business up and running. You know everything from social media to what the heck your first admin should actually do for you, you know, because that is a question I get asked a lot. And it’s been super fun. I really enjoy it because I get to know my audience a little bit because we let them text questions to me for me to answer and, and I go through them and I go through all of them myself. And then I hand them over to my admin so if you ever do DM me or ask a question you want answered no, it I am actually looking at it. So

D.J. Paris 46:35
and you can subscribe to b word from any podcast app, just do a search cast.

Joanne Bolt 46:41
Yeah, Apple is probably the one that we have the most people on. But Spotify you know, Google is actually everywhere. But then Megan’s thing I’ve got going on. Yes, I don’t even know your conference is the conference. We are hosting our first spring conference March 23 and 24th here in Atlanta. Holy crap, do I have some good people lined up. So I went with the concept that broker agnostic, so we’ve got speakers from several major brokerages coming in, and I looked at who our audience is and what they need. So I can’t wait for this one. We’ve got keynote speaker Giselle, who karte she’s not even a real estate agent. She is just one of the biggest badass is on Instagram around and I happen to get to know her from Chelsea pipes, who’s a friend of mine. And they were both on Inman connects panel for social media. And so she’s gonna come in and she’s really going to talk about how to get on video, why to get on video, how to use it in your business. And then we’re always going to address because you know me, we’re going to talk about the girl stuff, we’re going to address the factors of things like you don’t like your voice, you don’t like your face, you’re scared to do this because of what you think you’re going to look like. So we’re going to talk about those things too, as well as show them how to really create some darn good videos. And then we’ve got some breakout speakers that are here just to help the moms figure out how to set their schedules own their mom, Enos as well as their business. And we’ve got some good women that are going to help our team leaders know how to run a team with Grayson indignity.

D.J. Paris 48:15
And this is at the hotel Midtown in Atlanta, and I have not been to the hotel in Midtown, but I’ve been to Midtown Atlanta. And it is just a super fun area as well. But yeah, lots of great speakers. I mean, look, this is something worth traveling to, as well, for anyone who lives in elsewhere in the country. This is Women Helping Women, top producers, people outside of the industry as well with all sorts of great ideas. And this is the focus conference. It starts in March, march 23 and 24th. In Atlanta, there’s plenty, there’s plenty of time to to register. But don’t wait. Because really make a commitment. Any conference like this, this isn’t a conference you want to attend. It’s not expensive. It’s totally reasonable. And you can actually get more information on it right at real boss women.com. So you’ll see there’s a link right there. And it’s really, by the way, very beautiful page for I mean, just from a web design perspective. I love it. I think it is so cool. But there’s couple different tiers. Guys, you really as you said guys, men and women, you really should

Joanne Bolt 49:20
come I’m not going to tell him no, he may you know find some of it interesting, but I won’t tell him no. And you’re going to sweat. Only pass for the conference speakers. I do encourage you to come the night before and grab the whole past because we’re going to have a Prosecco party at the top floor of the hotel and I went today and saw the venue and it’s it’s pretty kickin

D.J. Paris 49:42
Awesome. Well everyone please there’s so many opportunities here number one subscribe to be word podcast. Check out the real boss women website which is everything Joanne but real boss women.com attend the conference March 23 24th. In Atlanta, Georgia. You even if you just get one good idea which you’ll get about have dozens of good ideas, but even you just get one good idea. It’s worth more than what the small investment is. And you’re going to just be talking to lots of wonderful, powerful, successful women who want to help. So Joanne, thank you again for being on our show. I had a great time. I love having you on. You’re so much fun. You’re so great at this. And people really, everybody should be checking out real boss woman.com And subscribe to the B word. Sorry, not the B word. Subscribe to be word podcast. We’ll put links to all of this in the show notes. So on behalf of everyone listening, thank you so much, Joanne. And we’re watching behalf of Joanna and myself. Thank you. Thank you Please tell one other agent about this episode. They have one other professional real estate agent that could benefit from hearing from Joanne send them a link to our show. That’s how we grow and also tell them subscribe to be word as well. So please do that. And we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, Joanne. Bye guys.

Welcome to the February episode of Learn With A Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate!

In this episode Joel talks strategies on how to come up with offers that are designed to win in a market where inventory is in all-time low. Joel and D.J. discuss the advantages these strategies will provide for buyers in this market and how knowing the right people will help you provide the best service and standing apart from your competition. Joel discusses what the raise in the rates by FED means and how this situation should be managed by agents. Last, Joel and D.J. discuss the weekly market update Joel sends out by email.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at [email protected] and 773.654.2049.

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris, I’m your guide, and hosts through the show. And today, once again, is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel shop from guaranteed rate. Now Joel is the vice president of lending at guaranteed rate. And he’s been doing loans at a very high level since 2003. And he’s got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is he gives back part of his commission to the buyer on every transaction, he makes agents look like heroes. Now last year alone, Joel gave back over 291,000 and closing costs. In fact, I think he gave more that’s probably an old number. So he’ll correct us in a moment. But he’s gives back a lot and that’s the people who work with him. And that puts Joel’s volume in the top 1/10 of 1% of all lenders nationwide. In fact, out of over 400,000 loan officers in the country. Joel is currently ranked number 137. Last year for his best year ever. He did 620 transactions, his highest amount ever for the year of almost $250 million in loans. Now if you’re looking for a loan officer, we cannot more highly recommend Joel he’s the very best we ever worked with. He did my loan, my most recent loan, he was amazing. his team’s great. He’s everybody I’ve ever known that’s worked with Joel says the same thing. But Joel can be reached. So everyone listening, you can reach him by email at [email protected] Again, [email protected]. Or you can shoot him a text message or call him at 773-654-2049. And in just a moment, we’re going to be also mentioning Joel has a a weekly update newsletter an email that I want everybody who’s listening to subscribe to because it gives you everything you need to know about what to talk to your clients about what’s going on in the world of lending. But let’s say hello to the biggest Cubs fan. I know Joel shop.

Joel Schaub 3:17
Hey, DJ, thanks so much for having me on. I can’t believe we’re already into the second month of 2022. How do we get here?

D.J. Paris 3:26
You know, it’s it’s funny. So So Joel is fortunate at the moment to not be here dealing with with the weather that we have. Thankfully, Joel is protected from the elements because today and here locally in Chicago, I think we have like seven or eight inches, maybe more. So it is it’s such a weird day today. And of course we have listeners from all over the country and guaranteed rates of every where in the country to. But here locally, it is just a weird day. So I’m only thinking about today and it’s Groundhog Day, as well by the you know the day that we’re recording this. I don’t even know if we’re getting more, more winter or spring or I forget how that works. But I don’t know what Punxsutawney Phil if he saw his shadow this morning. But yeah, it’s all of a sudden I had all these plans for things I wanted to get done in January. And now it’s February and I’m like, Oh no, I’m a month behind. I don’t know if you can relate to that at all. But you’re right. Like how did we get here? How did the time move so quickly?

Joel Schaub 4:23
I don’t know if he’s gonna see a shadow or not. But my prediction is you’re going to be shoveling snow for a while the Dan I’m going to be that’s okay. We love it. There’s no problems there. I love that you said about January or kind of planning and what you wanted to get done. And in the real estate world, it’s the exact same thing. We have goals and we need to always update and we need to refine and that’s what we’re going to talk about here today is how we can get offers in that are designed to win because right now we’re seeing a lot of multiple offer situations,

D.J. Paris 4:57
aren’t we in inventory as low as As everyone probably who’s listening, no matter what market you might be servicing, most people can appreciate that and are rather not appreciated. But most people can appreciate understanding that we’re all dealing with it. And you do have to sort of get creative these days in order to get noticed. There’s a lot of competition rates are still really low. And so there’s just a lot of people who are able to put these offers and that, boy, the competition is fierce. So yeah, I absolutely would love to talk about that. Because there’s a lot of stress, I think, in working with buyers right now, I hear it a lot with the all the agents here at our company, and even agents I know outside who are just, they’re just stressed, it’s like, it’s tough, it’s tough with you’re working with a buyer. So I’d love to hear some advice about what you can do to help get your offers a little bit more more attention than that, then then they’re getting

Joel Schaub 5:54
well over the years, I’ve talked to 1000s of agents, because of all the offers that have come in for my clients. And the one thing that’s being talked about so much more recently is the scrutiny on who’s doing the mortgage, okay, we take all the cash buyers out, if we’re lucky enough to be working with cash buyers, that’s great. Because then you can cut people out, like me that cause all the problems, right? That’s the mortgage folks that gunk up the deals, right? If you have a good buyer, and they’re paying cash that’s going to win. The Second best is having somebody that can update the pre approval letter for you to make the offer look as strong as possible. And I wanted to review the two strategies here, if you’re an agent submitting offers, and if you’re like a lot of agents right now, and you’re listening, and you’ve submitted offer number three, and number four, and number five, and we still can’t win. At the end of this, we’re gonna have some new strategies that you can absolutely walk away with, that you can put in place right away to hopefully not have to submit offer six, seven and eight to get it approved. Okay, so let’s start with Yeah, I’m excited. Yeah, I am too. So excited. Just to go through these two strategies in terms of the dollar amount that’s listed on the pre approval letter. We used to have agents that would say if the property is listed for 400, and we’re going to offer 380, please update my letter to show just 380,000 We know that strategy, right? Sure. I like the opposite strategy a lot more. I like showing that our buyers are very strong, especially when there’s multiple offers, and showing that they’re approved well over the list price. And just what wait. Yeah, well,

D.J. Paris 7:39
wait, go ahead. Does won’t. So I know what a lot of our agents, sorry, our agents, our listeners, and viewers might might have might be saying right at this moment, which is why I interrupted you. Thank you for allowing me to interrupt. But just this is important, because if what Joel just said is is very important. So I’m going to just we’re going to roll it back to slightly. So just said, Hey, when you’re putting an offer letter, maybe traditional wisdom, maybe the lender would suggest this, maybe the agent might suggest this and say, Hey, let’s Yes, we know you could be qualified for more but but I don’t want the bot the seller to look at the total amount you could be qualified for, and then maybe use that as a point of leverage to then try to drive up the price to get more out of the buyer. So that’s like the traditional sort of flinch risk responses. Oh, no. But if I show my cards, won’t that give the buyer more ammo to come back to me and say we need you to bump it up a bit?

Joel Schaub 8:37
I think you’re exactly right. In a normal market. I think you’re absolutely correct. This is a strategy where our cards are on the table, okay, I’m approved to $550,000, you want this home for 400,000 doesn’t mean that my buyer is going to go up to 550 Just because they are approved to 550. But out of the other offers you have our offer is the strongest and just think about it from the listing agent side. Why are we going to take an offer from somebody who’s barely qualified, versus somebody who’s very qualified. So talk to your loan officers, okay, the people that really help you get deals done. Right now we’re going to be your best friends. Okay. Go by also, I also think they’re busy yet,

D.J. Paris 9:26
this is a great opportunity to for the buying agent to also reiterate that to the listing agent, when the offer is being submitted to Hey, just so you know, in case you miss it, my buyers actually approved for more. And then if you need to spell it out further about what that might mean for the actual loan process, you know, which hopefully you wouldn’t have to explain that probably means that that that loan approval process will go a lot faster and smoother. And you could also say and by the way, this is not a you know and opportunities for, you know, for you to then drive up well, you wouldn’t need to say that. But but the reality of it is, is, is it might seem scary to the listing agent. But at the end of the day, what Joel just said is really, really important, which is, it actually is a stronger offer at the existing price you want to give, because it suggests that your client really has their financial life together. And this deal is going to close. And right now, in fact, just this morning on our management meeting here at our company, one of our managers said, Has anyone noticed that loans are closing a lot slower these days? Is that just me? And everybody on the call who’s practicing goes, Yeah, they really are going longer. So this is a perfect reason and timing to do it. So I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to steal all your thunder. But that is such an amazingly powerful strategy. And I’m almost wondering if again, this conventional logic of No, no, no, no, don’t show that you can pay for it, you can pay more, because that’ll maybe give them an opportunity to drive up the price. And again, maybe in a traditional market, you wouldn’t do that. But this is not a traditional market.

Joel Schaub 11:04
I like that you said thunder, you didn’t steal the thunder, you’re bringing the thunder, you’re literally talking about the things that are going to help agents that are listening, close, just one more transaction. Okay. And so now that could be a little counterintuitive to somebody saying that we’re going to show our cards, but I know it’s ringing home to a lot of people listening right now where they have had offer after offer last, okay, let’s go in and get your loan officer to update the letter to the highest amount they’re approved for show. The second thing, let’s show the highest downpayment that they could do, even if that’s not how much they plan to do. There’s a lot of people that can absolutely qualify for a loan for five or 10%, down DJ. But oftentimes, if there’s multiple offers, and the letter says 5%, down buyer, it goes right to the bottom of the barrel, right? Sure. Let’s change that. Let’s have the frank conversation with the buyer about the most that they could put down, have the loan officer update letter to show the most down that they could do in all honesty. And even if they’re approved to put down less, it’s no problem to show that they are approved with 20 or 25%, down at a much higher amount. And then once the contract comes in, it’s absolutely acceptable as long as they get out clear to close in time to select the exact loan amount that they want. Okay, big time strategy here. If you understand what I’m talking about, this will go a long way as a buyer’s agent, to submitting offers that are designed to win by making the offer as strong as possible. And it’s not lying. Okay, we’re not going to say somebody can put 20% down if they don’t have it, right. But if they have it, and they do qualify for five or 10% down, we’re not going to highlight the fact that there’s something in the offer that might be less desirable than somebody else. So we want to exemplify all the positives on these offers.

D.J. Paris 13:06
And also, for agents that aren’t all that familiar, it is a little harder these days to get through some of the approval process if you have a complicated situation. restrictions from from, you know, federal guidelines and lending guidelines and compliance really have made things a little slower and more tricky, because, of course, everyone wants to do things aboveboard. I’ll tell you a quick story. Because this just happened yesterday, I was getting my teeth cleaned by my dentist who is just a wonderful, wonderful person very successful financially, from my understanding, I don’t know his full financial picture. But from what he’s told me over the 10 years, I’ve known him, he does quite well he owns his own practice. He has a 4000 square foot condo townhome or condo down in the Gold Coast right across from his office. And he because he has an S corporation, where he pays himself a salary with a lot of business owners do and he pays himself a very modest salary because that’s what is allowed with S corporations. But on paper, he maybe doesn’t look as financially strong. He tried to refinance his wonderful condo or whatever it is. And God only knows what the cost of that condo might be. And he says two thirds of it is already paid off. So he says I’m really just refinancing 1/3 to try to take advantage rates. And he he got he got denied. And he goes, you know, the crazy thing is he goes, I have the cash to pay it off. I have cash to do it. But he goes even that he goes, it’s just complicated right now. And so that’s happening to even you know, people who are really financially secure. So I think these these examples you’re giving are really important because you know, the last thing a listing agent wants to see is an offer that looks complicated or tricky because the down payments low or lower than what they would do. Ideally law As you know, the amount that’s being financed is low, or is higher than they would prefer. So I think you’re absolutely right. Like, these are great, great ideas just to get the listing agent, Oh, this looks good, thank goodness kind of kind of feeling.

Joel Schaub 15:14
You’re exactly right. If I’m an agent, I don’t care if I’ve been in the business less than a year or more than 20 years, I’m making friends with a local lender that’s really reputable. These are the people that are going to help us get deals pushed through. Okay, as a realtor, you know, how many lenders call you all the time, right, I understand that. Find the ones that you actually know, that have a good reputation in your community. And, and partner with them. They’re the ones that are going to help you get deals through, because listing agents know which banks and which mortgage companies are easy, and which ones are a pain in the butt. Okay, for real. And if the buyer isn’t paying cash, you better well believe that the listing agents are looking at who’s doing the financing, much more than the specific terms of the offer.

D.J. Paris 16:05
I think that’s a really, really good point. And our whole intention with this show is not with Joel, this month, the monthly series that we do learn with a lender is not to say, here’s some cool rate facts that you can take to your clients, although we sometimes do that, because it’s appropriate and useful. And we certainly will talk about rates, however, what we’re really trying to do is help the agent really separate what the from all the other agents that they might be competing with in their local marketplace. And by choosing a lender that can give you tips like exactly like these, most agents aren’t thinking like this, they’re just like, just whatever the lending institution provides, as far as a pre approval, that’s what we’re using, and we’re gonna, we’re gonna submit it. And now you can say to your client, Hey, I gotta have a few ideas about ways we might be able to get this offer noticed. This is the kind of education that an agent can use to really just shine above all the other agents in their market. There’s a

Joel Schaub 17:05
big difference and seeing people that are really taking the next step in their career this year in terms of doing a lot more transactions and putting their foot on the gas, and then the ones that are not, and I’ll tell you the difference. And it may be hard to hear. But agents aren’t letting the buyers dictate the terms. They’re not letting the buyer say, Well, I went online and found a bank out of five states away. And this is what we’re using. If you don’t want to submit offer after offer, one of the things that you can do is build your team, have the people in your community that you know that are absolutely there to help you that have your back and be that resource lending as part of it. Whether you’re an attorney state or an escrow state, connecting with local attorneys, and local escrow officers and building that team up, right. Same with appraisers, and inspectors, knowing the people that are going to help you get your deals done is going to differentiate yourselves greatly when it comes back down to submitting offers that are designed to win. Because I don’t know if you’re like me, but I don’t want to go submit six or seven offers. If we have to, that’s fine. But what would be great is that we’re getting our offers accepted and recognized because we’re making it easy on the listing agent to accept our offer. Okay, so we’ve covered a lot right there. DJ, there was a couple of other things that I know that we have to get to before we

D.J. Paris 18:27
just wanted. Yeah, I wanted to talk just quickly about rate. So we talked about this a lot a month ago, because it was really prevalent in the news, it has become even more so with I would say, I don’t like to use the word mainstream media, because there’s some negative connotation, but I just mean, the news that your clients are absorbing, whether they’re watching something on TV or reading, you know, blogs, or maybe even newspapers, we’re hearing a lot about the Fed raising rates. So what is that going to mean in your interpretation of it to the lending world? And what to agents be talking to clients who are reading this information, and probably getting a little freaked out about refinancing possibly, or putting that by offering because maybe it’s not going to be as much money as as you know, fed keeps raising rates I won’t be able to afford as much are people freaking out about this right now? Are you seeing a lot of, you know, worried phone calls from from consumers? And then what would you be saying if you were an agent?

Joel Schaub 19:25
My staff and I have had to talk a lot of people off the edge in the last three or four weeks in terms of oh my gosh, rates have gone up, and they’ve gone up so much and the Feds haven’t even raised rates yet. TJ so what’s going to happen when the feds to raise rates? Is this going to be the last year am I not going to have any more transactions? are buyers going to stop buying real estate all these questions come up and we kind of say it laughingly but these are real concerns, right? So one of the things that I’ve been saying a lot lately and you can share this with your buyers that are talking about I thought rates Recently, we’re below 3%. When I look online, now they’re averaging in the mid threes. The Federal Reserve only meets eight times a year, but mortgage rates change almost daily, right? So we’re not waiting for the feds to raise rates for the full impact of these future rate increases to be baked in. So, in other words, when the Fed does raise rates, they don’t call all the mortgage companies and say, by the way, reminder, today’s the day increase your rates by a quarter percent everybody. It’s been well choreographed by Jerome Powell, and those of the Fed that they are going to raise rates two or three times this year. And since there are only eight meetings, and mortgage rates happen all day long, it would go to reason that mortgage rates are ahead of Fed meetings, right. So when the feds do raise rates here coming up in March, I don’t anticipate mortgage rates moving up that much more already from where they’re at. So what does that mean? We can talk some sense and a little bit of calmness into buyers that are really afraid that they’re going to lose out that rates are going to go to four and a half and 5% this year. And you can be the voice of reason, if you’re a realtor, where your competitors are doing the opposite. They’re selling fear, and they’re telling buyers, you better hurry up and submit this offer we’re going to lose out and rates are going to go up. I just don’t like the strategy of selling fear, be educated, educate, and help people. I know, we all want to make Commission’s and I know we all want to close transactions, but there’s a right way to do it, and a wrong way. And I’m telling you now, rates for the rest of the year are going to average in the threes, there’s not going to be some major push to four and a half or 5%. In pre COVID We’re now finally just getting back up to the point where rates were never lower than they are now. Before COVID. So let all that sink in. And then think of how bad the market is going to be. It’s gonna be really good.

D.J. Paris 22:12
Yeah, it’s it’s, it’s just always we’re all so immediately focused on headlines, right? We are. I’m susceptible to it. You know, if you, if you go to one website, you’ll see they, you know, one news outlet talks exclusively about how the President is failing the country. And then another website says no, no, he’s you know, there’s a lot of more positive stories. So it sort of depends on your news source. Also, you know what you’re paying attention to. But at the end of the day, if we look at it with perspective, rates are still really amazing. And it’s still an amazing time to be able to buy no inventories down. And that’s tough. But that’s why we gave some suggestions today about how to maybe get get towards the top of the pile versus Bottom of the Pile, especially you know, where people who are exclusively focused on rates buyers, maybe they’re shopping, some of these institutions that you know, they don’t know aren’t as reputable or aren’t as professional, they just go over the rates, lowest, you know, banks a bank while just go there. And not understanding that the, the agent, the attorney, the seller, on the other side of the deal goes, I don’t know who that is, or that I’ve had experiences with that particular lender. And it’s pretty, it’s pretty dicey. So these are things that the public doesn’t know about, right? The public only knows what they see what they read what they hear. So this is what we’re trying to break through is to give you the agent, this kind of information. So you can cut through all of some of the you know, the nonsense that’s out there and really say, No, this is this is really what’s happening, and then you become the trusted provider. And then they stop paying as much attention to things that might be trying to influence them to feel a certain way or another where you can influence them in an authentic and positive way to say, here’s what’s really happening.

Joel Schaub 23:57
DJ, I wish I could tell your listeners that there was a major difference between different banks, in terms of interest rates offered, that’s just simply not the case. Okay? There are not one bank somewhere, that’s going to be a point lower than another bank unless they’re being charged points. Okay. And as much as mortgage companies try to differentiate themselves and say, our rates are better, we’re the lowest and all that. Think of it this way. There’s a cost for an iPhone, I love telling this story because this will make sense. If you buy an iPhone from Apple, it costs whatever it is, it’s way too much. This is not an advertisement for or against Apple. But I think an iPhone today cost, you know, it’s over $1,000 to buy that phone. Are there some websites online that are somehow selling an iPhone for $599? Sure, maybe. But if they could do it every single time, they would be the number one seller of iPhones in the whole United States and we would know who they were, we would know that name. And it’s kind of the same with mortgages. If the rate today is 3.4 4% And we’re seeing somebody that’s offering something less, they might be able to do it once or twice, but they’re not going to be able to do it for the long term. And it’s all about reputation and making sure that your clients are working with somebody that can close, we all want something low. But we know chasing that deal or tripping over dollars to get dimes, there’s a lot of things that may not be the case. And at the end of the day, it’s all about teaching, educating, and making sure that your clients are working with trusted, reputable folks.

D.J. Paris 25:33
I think that’s perfectly said. And also, we want to make sure that everyone knows that Joel has an email list where every week, he sends out a market update, and it’s bite sized, it’s digestible. But it’s specifically for agents to be able to talk to clients about what’s going on. So you don’t have to wait once a month for Joel to come on our show, although we appreciate you listening here to, but I really encourage everybody to sign up for this newsletter, Joel, what’s the best way that somebody can get added to your your distribution list,

Joel Schaub 26:05
we’re never even opening it up before it just kind of became viral in terms of people were seeing this and sharing it. And even like printing it out and putting it in their office, because it gives you real ideas that you can speak to. And if you’re a managing broker, you’re in an office, how to lead a meeting and talk about just small things that are really relevant right now in the mortgage world. So yeah, you can be added, it’s as simple as sending an email now, to Joel J, o [email protected]. It’s as simple as that [email protected]. And in the subject line, you can just say, add me to it, there’s nothing else to it, add me and we’ll be

D.J. Paris 26:46
able to what I’ll what I’ll do, and you’ll have to remind me to do this, because I’m sure I’ll forget. But I will create a form on keeping it reals website, which will automatically send that to you in real time. So that way, somebody can also do it right from our site and get you that that information. And I’m telling you, we have 800 agents here at our firm, it’s the only one we send our agents here. Because quite frankly, it’s the only one we receive, which is also really interesting, right? Because with the amount of agents we have at our firm, you would think we’d be getting a lot of these from other loan officers who say, hey, Please distribute this, we really don’t get that. So that’s the extra mile that Joel and his team goes and this is not Joe puts this together. This is This is him and his team’s work. And it’s really, really helpful for agents. So please, everyone, go do that. Also, if you want to work with Joel and partner with Joel, you know, guaranteed rates licensed at all, all states, they can, you know, work with with buyers from all walks of life. But if somebody wants to partner or work with you, or has a buyer that they want to talk to you about, or refi, for example, what’s the best opportunity, same way should I email you as well?

Joel Schaub 27:57
This is just a reminder that the mortgage side of things is really helpful. So whether it’s me, or somebody that you know, partner with these mortgage professionals, not only will they help your clients get deals done. But if you find the right ones that really want your business, they should spend money with you and RESPA compliant ways. And I know I get so much pushback from these lenders saying why are you explaining this, but it’s so true. If you’re a lender, and you’re working with an agent, you should find ways to co market and spend money together in a real RESPA compliant way. So if I’m an agent out there, and I have the same loan officer that I really liked, and he’s always asking me for my business, I call them up right now. And I’d ask him, can we spend some money on an event, I have an event coming up and see if they’d be willing to spend money with you. The good loan officers out there that are really doing production would have no problem splitting a good size event with you. They might spend several $1,000. And that’s one of the big things that you can have in your corner is a good trusted loan officer, whether it’s me or somebody that you know. So I appreciate all of that you can always reach me It’s easy. It’s [email protected]. And that’s the short email for guaranteed rate.com 773-654-2049 is a direct line and try me. You’ll actually get a reply from me. We answer the phones. And we’re really there to help you partner and get deals closed.

D.J. Paris 29:31
Yeah, and it’s all about giving and Joel is famous for saying on our show and also outside of the show is givers get and he I know that he walks that talk. And I know if I was an agent looking for a partner, I would want somebody like Joel who says Let me help you versus let me help your client get the best rate or which of course they want to do as well. But really what Joel and his team do is help you build your business versus closed deals, and Joe closes more deals than just about anybody in the country. But He does it by giving it’s sort of counterintuitive a bit in a way. It’s, it’s this give and, and law of reciprocity, almost like if I give so much people are going to want to work with me. So that’s our whole intention of doing this particular show every month, it’s packed. It’s really what we do on all of our episodes. But this is a perfect example of the kind of relationship you want somebody who wants to come on a show like this. He doesn’t promote himself, but he offers the opportunity to speak with them. But he’s constantly providing value, think about what that would mean for your clients, if he’s willing to do that for you here for free on our show. Imagine what he would be willing to do when you actually have a deal. So I could never give a big enough commercial for Joel even though we this is not a commercial because he really walks the talk. And I really encourage everyone to reach out to him and see if you guys can work together. So reach out to [email protected] At the very least get on his email list. It’s really great. And, and on behalf of all of our listeners, Joel, we thank you for your time. I mean, Joel is one of the top ellos in the country. He doesn’t have time to do this and he finds time. In addition to that, we also want on behalf of Joel and myself to thank everyone listening and watching really appreciate all of your your love and support. Please leave us a review whatever podcast app or system you might be listening to this on right now. Whether it’s apple, or rather now called Apple podcasts or iTunes, Google Play Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora, etc. Let us know what you think of the show. And also tell a friend about this episode, you have other agents in your office, they are worried about what the clients are freaking out about rates or how to get offers accepted, send them a link to this episode that will help them and you will feel good about doing that as well. So thank you guys so much for continuing to support our show. Thanks for leaving us a review. Thanks for telling a friend. And thanks to Joel for continuing to come on year after year after year. We are so my biggest fear is one day Joe goes I really don’t have time to do this anymore. So we are so grateful that he is taking the time to do this because nobody has ever in the lending world provided this kind of value to our listeners. So thank you, Joe.

Joel Schaub 32:08
If I’m an agent right now I’m taking a big deep breath. I’m not worried about rates this year. There’s a lot of positivity. And I’m taking this and I’m reminding myself, what can I do to give back right? If every focus is givers gain, and the more you give, the more you get? What are one or two things that I can do as an agent right now to give back to my clients so that I have a really successful 2022 DJ, thanks for having me on.

D.J. Paris 32:33
Great. Thanks, everyone. We will see you on the next episode. And Joel, see you next month. Thank you

Heather Ditlevsen with Lipton Luxury Living in Chicago goes back and describes how her obsession with real estate turned into her career. Heather and DJ discuss the importance of mentorship in the real estate business. Next, Heather discusses the importance of open houses, her follow-up process and and how she utilizes them. Heather also describes how she built her relationship with developers on new construction. Last, Heather discusses how she nurtures her relationship with her clients.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Heather Ditlevsen can be reached at [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by RealGeeks.

If you’d like to listen to Josh Lipton’s interview with Keeping it Real Podcast click here.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide, and host through the show and in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with top producer an up and comer Heather debt Lipson. Before we get to Heather, just a couple of quick reminders. First, please tell a friend about our show. Think of one other real estate agent that you know that needs a boost or wants to hear success stories from top agents like Heather, send them a link to our website. Or if they’re a podcast person, just have them pull up a podcast app and search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button. But if they’re not a podcast person, send them over to keeping it real pod att.com. Every episode we’ve ever done is there and you can stream it right from a browser. So for those non tech savvy people, we made it really super easy. And also, we ask you to do one other thing which is leave us a review. Tell us what you think about the show. Whether you’re listening on iTunes or Apple podcasts, Google Play Stitcher, Spotify Pandora, wherever podcasts are served, let us know what you think about it. I mean unless you’re gonna give us a one star review then you know then you can ignore my my request but seriously, whatever you think of the show, please do let us know it helps us continue to improve and also helps with our visibility with other possible listeners. So thank you on behalf of everyone at the keeping it real podcast team we have some really exciting announcements coming up very shortly but for now, let’s get to the main event. My interview with Heather didn’t listen.

Okay, today on the show, we have Heather Detlef son with Lipton luxury living which is with compass here in Chicago. And let me tell you a little bit more about Heather. Now Heather grew up as an only child in the western suburbs here in Chicago and move to the city for college. She went to Loyola University where she was studying pre med by the way, I had the same initial path, different college, but obviously did not did not. I did not end up becoming a doctor and neither did you. But after school, she she nannied, I guess right before I got to organic chemistry, I was like, I gotta get out. This is this is.

Heather Ditlevsen 3:45
Yeah, I was my senior year and I was like, nope, not for me anymore.

D.J. Paris 3:48
Well, I didn’t have the chops for it. I’m sure you probably did, but I just didn’t. But anyway, after that, Heather nannied for several years here in the city before finally taking real estate classes two years ago. She’s a very outgoing, outspoken person and has always had an obsession with real estate. So she figured why not just go for it. She knew she had the personality to succeed. She lives in old Irving Park and loves it. She spends her free time binging new shows, checking out restaurants with friends and hanging with her best friend’s baby. Who is also the cutest thing since sliced bread. We should we should what is the baby’s name by the way, his

Heather Ditlevsen 4:25
name is Joey and I’m with him constantly and everyone in my life knows about joey and I’m basically a second mom. So

D.J. Paris 4:32
Joey is is a great that’s a great baby’s name.

Heather Ditlevsen 4:36
I love that and she’s pregnant with another baby. So we’re gonna be Auntie James too. Yes.

D.J. Paris 4:40
That’s amazing. Well, since others already been talking, we we welcome you Heather. Welcome to the show. We appreciate your time.

Heather Ditlevsen 4:50
And true true passion. Mita already be interrupting and chatting. So here we go. So

D.J. Paris 4:55
just just to give everyone a little heads up about what we’re eventually going to get to um, It is. We have some show notes. So we do our research before we bring on guests and zonna, who’s the behind the scenes like she does 95% of this podcast, really. She always does research and she gives me some talking points. And she said, Heather did $10 million in her first year of production, which, if that was the truth, it would be absolutely insane. Turns out it isn’t the truth because she actually did 13 and a half million in her first year, which is beyond sort of comprehension. So we definitely want to figure out how you got there. But let’s go all the way back to the beginning. And, you know, I know we mentioned a little bit about you know, why the switch from you know, pre med into, you know, to nannying to real estate, but what was it about real estate that really caught your attention?

Heather Ditlevsen 5:46
Yeah, I’ve been all over right. Yeah, it’s funny. I always thought I wanted to go to med school from you know, early high school on and just never ended up working out that way. So yeah, I got a job nannying. And, you know, I, like I said, I’ve had this passion for real estate since I was probably 14 years old. I remember, you know, being a weirdo only child looking on realtor.com. And like houses in my parents neighborhood trying to that is when I was like 10 years, 1014 years old. I’d be like, you know, home on a Friday night looking at home, like, you know, what, what am I doing, but I promise I had friends. But yeah, so I, you know, always had this weird obsession with it. And, you know, I was actually at a friend’s extra, my friend who has the baby, I was at her lake house a couple summers ago, and we were drinking beers by the fire. And it was, you know, midnight, and we were just talking and I was like, You know what, I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna sign up for classes. So at, you know, midnight, and sitting by a fire, I saw my career started, essentially. And I actually ended up signing up for the wrong course, because I wasn’t. And I had to call them Monday morning and switch. And you know, that’s how I did it. And I did an expedited six week course, I did it for six Saturdays in a row. And it was, you know, like eight hours a day and knocked it out of the park. And I ended up reaching out to a bunch of top producers that I had already kind of been following and knew the names of Josh Lipton, whose team I work on now being one of them. So I reached out to him on Instagram, because I didn’t have his number or email, you know, so I did a little stalking and I basically asked if he wanted to meet for coffee, and he asked if I had passed, you know, the state test? And I said, No, I’m taking it next weekend. And he basically told me, well reach out once you’re past and I said, Okay, fair, you know, so I took it the next weekend and pass the first try. And so I texted him, I think 20 minutes after I got my test results back with a picture of it and said, let me know when you want to meet. And we did. We met the next weekend. We talked for about three hours. And he had just you know, he had been doing a lot of business and never had anyone and it was just the stars align. I truly believe timing is everything. So he asked if I want to join him. So yeah, I gave the family I was working for some notice and started with him. Actually, tomorrow. We’ll mark two years. Exactly. I started with him February 1 of 2020. So

D.J. Paris 7:58
Wow. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, it’s really funny too. For the audience. We actually have interviewed Josh on our show. So this is just completely a coincidence because Heather has made quite a name for herself since she started as being this amazing sort of up and comer or already arrived, I guess at this point here in the Chicagoland area. And there’s 45 or 46,000 realtors. So it’s not like it would be Oh, we live in this small rural community. Everyone knows everyone and everyone knows each other. Everyone, a lot of people do know how they’re because she’s she’s made a lot of strides. And also Josh as well, who’s kind of a legend here in Chicago as well. But there’s 1000s of other realtors here in the area. And it just so happens that when I was jumped on with Heather, I had, I guess maybe I had known that you were with Josh Lipton, but I had forgotten and so she was telling me about it. And I go, Oh my gosh. And the even the way I met Josh, we were talking about was just, I’m sure we can go back. We’ve actually interviewed and we’ll put a link to his episode, because it was quite a good one. Because his whole thing at the time was he was like, you know, I listen to your show, I think I think this if I remember correctly, he said, and you have all these guys who come on or, but they have teams. And he’s like, I really do it all myself. And I would love to tell people how I do all of the production. And he was so great. And we loved having him on. And he’s such a nice guy. And so I’m glad that you’re with him. And so if you haven’t gone back, everyone who might be new to listening to the show, this is like three years ago probably interviewed Josh. So I’ll make sure we put a link in the notes for Josh’s episode because it was quite interesting because it is true that a lot of the top producers we have on have teams and there’s nothing wrong with that teams are great, but it’s always cool when somebody can do it all by themselves. And now of course he’s working with you, which is amazing. And I’m sure he’s grown, he’s grown to need a team where he’s probably he got to that level and probably said I can’t really do more without a team but boy did he get to that level and just just a great guy. Yeah. So you know,

Heather Ditlevsen 9:50
you have to join somebody great, who has good intentions and can help bring you to that level. I mean, I owe you know almost everything you know to him, obviously I do my own hardware, but you know you have to have somebody That’s in support of you and helps bring you up otherwise, you know, you’re just another fish in the sea. So

D.J. Paris 10:04
it’s so unusual that somebody has as much success as has you’ve had so early on without a mentor, or a team member who can just help you, you know, build your business, which I’m sure again, I’m sure you do almost all of it yourself anyway. But having that kind of mentorship is so important. And it’s really almost a universal experience. For top producers. It’s very rare. When I interview somebody who says, you know, I just kind of did it all on my own without really a whole lot of help from anyone, and I don’t have a team or I don’t have a mentor, it’s really uncommon. So I want to use this as it. And I want to also mention how you reached out to him, which by the way, you would, you would think these top producers get a ton of these types of emails, they really don’t carry McCormick who comes on our show every month. She’s a top producer here. And in Chicago, and as everyone who might be listening already knows her, she she she’ll message we talked before we go on every month, and she’ll say, Oh, I got you know, 10 or 20 different responses from people on your show. But outside of that, she goes, you’d be surprised very few people ever reach out and you had actually reached out to her as well, prior. So I think there’s a tremendous lesson there in reaching out to people who are doing well and saying, Hey, can we talk? I either I just want to get some advice, or maybe there’s an opportunity we can work together. So I just was curious how many people did you end up reaching out to just to sort of talk to them before? Was it just those two? Are there a lot of people?

Heather Ditlevsen 11:40
Yeah, I reached out to about five or six agents Carrie McCormick’s one of them. Hi, Carrie, and for listening, but she, I ran into her at an event that actually just brought me to my first week, there was like this fancy dinner, it was like a top agents panel. And he goes, I’m gonna bring you with I’m like, I don’t, I don’t think I belong here. Like, nobody knows who I am. And he’s like, No, you’re coming. And Carrie was there. And that was our first time meeting face to face because we had only talked to you like texts on the phone. And, and, you know, maybe now she wishes as with her just kidding. But yes,

D.J. Paris 12:11
she she doesn’t she does everything herself to that. But it is it is it is interesting that some people just function better as individuals. And and and she’ll talk about that I can see I’m like, you should have a team. And she goes, I know, but I’m too controlling. And then there’s other people who are willing to say, you know, hey, let’s let’s work together and it works for them. And but I think just this idea of a mentorship is so important.

Heather Ditlevsen 12:35
It’s everything. And I knew I didn’t want to be on my own. I knew I wasn’t going to succeed that way. I had, you know, high hopes for myself. And like I just said, like you anybody? Listen, Josh and I say it all the time, anybody can get a real estate license, right? We’re not performing heart surgery here. If you study and you pay attention, anybody can do it, right? But not anybody can succeed in it. So there’s a difference, right? My entire family can go get a real estate license, that doesn’t mean they’re gonna be good at it. I think a lot of it’s internal, I think you have to have the personality and drive. And I think a lot of its external. And you have to know, you know, who to join and who to talk to and swallow your pride a little bit and say, Hey, I’m brand new, nobody is going to hire me. When I don’t have a name for myself, right. So yeah, like I said, I reached out to Josh on social media, and both him and Carrie said the same thing that, you know, I think his exact words were, wow, it takes a lot of balls recharges. And I was like, yes, thank you. So I think he saw a lot of passion in that. I think he was that he was literally sitting on the couch with his wife like watching Netflix when my little message came up. So it really has worked out well. We are two peas in the pod, we’re very similar. You know, we’re like brother and sister that way we fight sometimes and talk but it works well. And I think our clients appreciate that, you know, we play a lot of bad cop, good cop, and we really bounce off of each other. You know, it’s just, it’s been a very good relationship and very, very grateful. So

D.J. Paris 13:59
I’ll tell you a quick story. This just happened to me. And this has never, almost never happened to me. And although I think I’ve been doing this 11 Not this show 11 years, but I’ve been in this industry for 11 years, and I had a guy come in, he had just passed his real estate license, and he was interested in possibly joining our firm, or I’m not even sure if he was interested in joining our firm, but he somehow found my the podcast and so he’s been listening to it. But he set up an appointment to learn more about what our firm offers. And he came in and he goes, You know, I absolutely need a mentor, I need a I need somebody who I can go out in the field with and you know, they can sort of be there with as a partner. And even though we have like 800 agents in our firm, I sort of thought you know, I don’t we’re probably not the right fit as much as I would love to say we’re the right fit for everybody. But anyway, I said you know, I said I can bring you on board and we’ll take great care of you and we have amazing we have all these great trainers and whatever but the coaching piece or sorry, the mentorship piece, we don’t really have a good structure for that. I said, you’re really probably better off going to these top producers, who you know, we have some top producers too but But, but we said, you know, why don’t I go through my list of people that I know. And I can give you some suggestions of who you might want to reach out to? So he goes, Oh my gosh, that’d be amazing. So we came up with 20 names that that he had already made a list of people. And I went through it. I said, here’s 20 people that I sorted, no. And I said, he goes, I’m going to take them all out for coffee. And I said, I said, I promise you, if you do that, you will have so many opportunities, because everybody wants to get that call that goes, I want to, I want to learn what you I want to he goes out, he goes, I’ll work for like, maybe I’ll just work for a small salary for now. And I was like, I go dude, in two years, you were going to be crazy successful, because he had the courage like you to reach out to people who probably don’t really have time to respond. And and people who do and because so many generous, wonderful people in this industry, and you just reach out. But I think that’s when people say I’m looking for a mentor. My thought is well, I mean, I can try to help you do that. But are you doing that on your own? And you did that? And I just think that’s so, so awesome. And that’s

Heather Ditlevsen 16:03
what we did. I took him for a coffee at Starbucks. And I remember I was so nervous. And he walked in with a giant Dunkin Donuts, coffee and true Josh fashion sticking out. And I remember being like, this is gonna go really well.

D.J. Paris 16:14
Yeah. So So you grew up here locally? So I’m curious out in the suburbs. I’m curious how your how you nurtured your sphere of influence? How important is your spirit now understanding that your sphere might also know that you just got a license, because you just recently got a license and last few years. So was that difficult, because I know, we get this feedback a lot from new agents who listen to our show, they say, I know I’m supposed to work my sphere of influence. I know I’m supposed to stay in touch. But I’m really timid about asking for business, or rather even just sort of reminding people that I’m looking for business because they know that they know me, it feels weird to ask my friends. And then also, I also feel kind of like a fraud, because I don’t know enough yet to really do a good job. But I don’t want to screw something up. I’m curious if any of those things sort of happened to you, as you were starting? Like, did you have any of those concerns about reaching out? Or how did you?

Heather Ditlevsen 17:08
I wouldn’t say it concerns I’m probably more confident than I should be. But um, I wouldn’t. I mean, if any friends or family end up listening to this, this is no offense, but I didn’t really tap into that, to be completely honest. I don’t really have. Listen, everybody has their own sphere of influence. Right? Some people have a lot of really wealthy friends, like good for them. I don’t, right. So in for me, you know, I’m not, you know, I’m 28. So Oh, my God, I’m 29 I just forgot I had a birthday. Sorry. I’m 29 Happy birthday. Thank you. A few weeks ago, when I started, I was 27. Right? Like, a lot of my friends aren’t necessarily buying yet. Or like, yeah, they are. It’s not like, you know, not enough to like really, like, make my career go wild. Right. So, I mean, I have sold a couple of friends places and a couple, you know, an ex boyfriends play stuff like that. But I wouldn’t say that was my main

D.J. Paris 17:57
source of business. reliabilt.

Heather Ditlevsen 17:58
I know, it was not. And I did you know, of course, I posted on my Facebook and Instagram when I first got licensed. And I, it’s one of my big 2022 goals is to market myself more because I don’t you know, it’s worked out fine. But I did not nearly do it as enough as I could have. Because you don’t want to you don’t want you know, your family is going on stuff to like see how your life as you don’t want to be like, do you need to buy herself by herself?

D.J. Paris 18:19
Nobody wants to be that person. Right?

Heather Ditlevsen 18:21
No. And it’s, you know, you do it occasionally, I would say maybe quarterly, right? Just remind the people you know, and what I what I’ve taken away from it is it might not be your friends and family that are binary sign but maybe they’re like, Oh, well, my neighbor is you know, so like, it’s more stuff like that, that I think could give me business because you know if it friends or family they know like my closest people they know I don’t need to post it on Facebook. Like they know what I’m doing for a living. So yeah, I mean, we can talk about it now or whatever. But I got most of my business through doing open houses. Because believe it or not, I would.

D.J. Paris 18:51
Let’s talk about that. So how important were open houses while you know then and how important are they now to your business?

Heather Ditlevsen 19:01
It was everything. I remember I did my very first open house. I think the first weekend I joined Josh it was a listing he had and he was doing X it’s like I’m not doing it by myself. So I went with him and I I was in charge of making sure people signed it and you know, on your on your first time. It’s like, oh my god, do I talk to them? Do I not talk to them? How? Like, there’s a like, looking back now two years later, I’m like there isn’t there is a formality. It’s just doing open houses, right? Like some people are just not better than like Joshua man, like he’s not good at them. Right? Like he doesn’t. You have you have to have the person typed to like want to talk to people without being too salesy, but like aggressive enough, and I will admit like, I’m very good at doing them. So I I do an open house every weekend if I can, like obviously if I’m out of town or sick, that’s different. But in the beginning, I was doing an open house every weekend. I mean, Saturday and Sunday and I still try to that’s you know, that’s what you’re meeting a lot of unwrapped buyers at least for me it was I don’t know, I don’t know for everybody but you know you want to go after if you don’t have your own list. seems to do you know, there’s a million agents out there that don’t want to do their own house, open house, especially big top producers carry Josh whoever, like, that’s the last thing they want to do, you know, so they’re more than willing to let you do it. You know, you say you’ll do it for free and your price is keeping enriched buyers, right. So you know, in some open houses are fails, I’ve done some where literally nobody comes, you know, or one group comes in, they have an agent. So it’s, you know, you don’t know what you’re gonna get. But I did an open house for one of our listings two weekends ago and ended up selling the next day. And I met

D.J. Paris 20:32
one of the people that came to the opening one of the people that came they had an agent, so what actually carry on so

Heather Ditlevsen 20:38
sell your house? Absolutely. Yeah. And we got 10 grand over list, but you know, just a little bit, but yeah, there was, we had 35 groups come through, it was absolutely insane. Nine groups were unwrapped buyers. And out of those nine, I am now working with four of them. So to me, that was an I did it, you know, it was there two hours. So two hours on a Saturday now Oh, my

D.J. Paris 21:00
God. So So you have four clients out of it? And if we say let’s just say the average commission, I don’t know, like 10 grand or seven grand, something like that price point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s like, 30k right there for two hours. Now, there’s a lot more work that’s gonna go into

Heather Ditlevsen 21:17
it. And some might not buy for six months, right. But I don’t care. I mean, I don’t, of course, not. My clients are long term to me, right? I don’t, I’m not gonna sit here, like you need to buy in the next 30 days. You know, so if they’re, if they buy in a year from now, whatever, they’re my clients, and they will send me referrals. And that is all that matters to me. So, you know, I’m just saying, where anyone listening do open houses, it is, by far 100%. Besides Josh, obviously, helping me tremendously, you know, with leads and stuff. That has been the number one way, and now I’m starting to get to the point where, like, they’re giving me referrals. Again, you know, I haven’t been doing this that long. But I’ve already had a couple of buyers give me multiple referrals, you know, and now they give referrals. So at some point, and that’s how these top producers get big, right? Especially the ones who’ve been doing it. 20 years. It’s just at that point, it is it’s just referral after referral after referral. So yeah, you know, if you’re looking for a way an easy way to do and, you know, for me being single and having no kids or like, you know, now’s the time to hustle.

D.J. Paris 22:11
I’ve got more time. Yeah, yeah.

Heather Ditlevsen 22:13
I mean, my friends always like, does that what you want to do on a weekend? I’m like, what else? Am I gonna do? Just sit on the couch, you know, drinking like, I might as well make some money. Yeah, yeah. I love open houses.

D.J. Paris 22:22
Yeah. And let’s, I want to drill down just a little bit on open houses, only in the sense of, when do you have I know, this sounds so sort of like, inconsequential. But we get these questions a lot. People will want to listen to the show. And they’ll go, Well, you guys talk a lot about open houses, but you don’t get too specific. And I only want to ask you just a couple of questions about it.

Heather Ditlevsen 22:42
And I will talk about it forever.

D.J. Paris 22:45
So when somebody walks in, are they signing in right away? Or are you leaving them alone?

Heather Ditlevsen 22:49
Okay, I have a you know, every agent does it their own way. I learned what works for me and my personality type. And I you know, it’s funny because clients I have gotten from open houses, like we will laugh and talk about the like, yeah, you know, some open houses we go to it’s like, hi, welcome. Sorry. That it’s like when you go to a car dealership, and they’re like, Hi, I’m Jeff, can I help you? Like, can I just frickin look around for a second? So

D.J. Paris 23:12
you walk into Banana Republic, and you like the salespeople face they seat? Yeah, right. They see it. And they’re super helpful. Nice, lovely people. Me, I’m like, I already know what I want. Like, if I need help, I’m coming to you. But you do get that little bit of like, Please don’t come over and talk to me.

Heather Ditlevsen 23:28
But I do make sure so Compass has an app, that there’s an open house, you know, section on it. And you can sign in sometimes I bring the iPad so that I can have it say now, but usually just use my phone that you know, we all have our phone in our hands constantly. So I don’t do the old fashioned pen and paper. I did that for a few months in the beginning. And I realized I couldn’t read anybody’s handwriting and I Yeah,

D.J. Paris 23:47
that’s a that’s a real problem. Yeah, it really is, I

Heather Ditlevsen 23:49
would look back. I’m like, I don’t even know what this says. And it sucks because I can’t follow through. So compass for any if compensations listening, use that on your app, because it is amazing. And it’ll automatically go to your CRM anyhow. So at some point, I will make people sign up. And usually when they’re about to leave, or you know, I’m a very good conversationalist. So like we’ll be talking and, you know, kind of make a joke, like, don’t forget to sign in, so I can stalk you later, you know, like, I’ll make some kind of joke and like, they laugh and they like it, you know, so, yeah, I’m very non aggressive about it. And, you know, I would say, you know, if it’s slow, or it’s only one group at a time, I obviously always get them to sign in. But every now and then a couple will slip through where I know somebody came in and out, I didn’t get them to like at this one. I was telling you, it was insanely packed. I mean, at any given time, there was five or six groups and you know, I’m trying to talk to them and, you know, you know, you see a couple come in, they do a quick walk and you see them leaving I’m like, dang it, I think up in the sign it but, you know, it happens so rarely.

D.J. Paris 24:44
But people like that might not have even become a client anyway. Right?

Heather Ditlevsen 24:49
Right. Or like, you know, a lot of times people come in, they have agents, there’s the thing on the AdWords is like, are you working with an agent? Yes. So those ones I don’t even follow through? Well, you know, obviously they’re not they’re working with somebody. So it’s really on They’re the ones that aren’t represented, obviously. But yeah, you have to know the fine line of not being too aggressive. But making sure you get it like, and there are a lot of agents that are too timid. I mean, I was at the beginning. You know, I remember doing my first met Josh was like, make sure they sign it. And I was I was so awkward. I was like, what I do is go to Nick, hey, can you sign in, but just make it part of your conversation? And then make it funny, you know, and or just say, you know, if there’s any other questions I can answer for you. A lot of times, they’ll ask certain questions, and maybe I don’t know the answer, you know, what’s the edge of the room? Oh, I don’t know, if my client makes sure you sign in for me. And I’ll follow up with you. So,

D.J. Paris 25:30
you know, and then and then what’s the follow up process for you? How do you do it?

Heather Ditlevsen 25:34
Um, so I always do it the next day. I don’t like to do it right away, because it makes me you know, it’s like going on a date and text them five minutes. Too much. You know, I

D.J. Paris 25:43
had a great time. Let’s get together again. Yeah. Yeah, it’s breathe a little. Yeah.

Heather Ditlevsen 25:48
So but if you wait too long, then maybe they really wanted you to follow through. And now they’re like, Oh, well, she doesn’t care. So Right. Always do it the next day. Usually, it’s, it’s always be attacks, I don’t like to do email. I’m a very, I’m a much more informal agent than probably most, which I think, you know, we can get to that later. I think clients that I worked with appreciate, I think I’m very relatable. And you know, I’m not the suit and tie, I’m not going to wear stilettos every showing obviously, of course, you can tie but you know what I mean? I’m not the, you know, I, I dress presentable, but I dress comfortable. And if I do a showing, and sneakers, I do a showing and sneakers, you know, but so I send a text, you know, when they sign in, they have to give their name, their number and their email. So I always send a text and I just say, hey, you know, Jessica, this is Heather. And I usually put something funny, you know, the awesome agent you met yesterday at the address. So they remember they maybe they met five agents yesterday, you know, if they went to multiple open houses, they might have signed in multiple places. So I always say the address they met him at and I’ll usually be super, you know, super chill, like, hey, you know, let me know if there’s any other questions you had about the listing. If this isn’t the place for you, you know, happy to help you guys, you know, find something that fits, would love to set up a phone call this week. And we can talk next step. And that’s it. It’s super casual. I don’t say I don’t ask them, you know, so what are you guys looking for? You know, what’s your price? Right? None of that right off the bat. If they want to work with me, they Well, again, I always relating to dating, but it’s like, you know, if a guy or girl wants to see you again, they’ll respond. You want to work with me? They’ll answer and listen. I’d say 75% of time, they may not respond. So you got probably about a 25 to 30% chance of those buyers actually responding. So, you know, if they

D.J. Paris 27:22
don’t respond to your text? Do you text them again? Or do you just let it go?

Heather Ditlevsen 27:27
I do well, so it depends. So I I’ll give it a bed. I don’t text you know, if they don’t respond the first couple days, I don’t respond again. I usually wait a few weeks, I do another very casual follow up like hey, just checking in. You know, if there’s anything I can do, let me know. Like, it might be two sentences. Yeah. And then after that, if I don’t hear from him, I usually let it go like a girl can take a sigh, you know, so. But I will say I actually have a client right now. And I met them through an open house over the summer, sent her a follow up, we were very chatty at first, and then they kind of, you know, went quiet and just whatever, maybe they’re not looking, maybe they met somebody else who knows, right. But I’ve continued once a month for the last four months, I’ve sent an email checking in, they reached out about three weeks ago and said, we’re ready to start looking seriously. We’re so sorry, but am I dealing with a lot. So you know, it happens. So I would also tell people, just because somebody’s not responding, it doesn’t mean they’re not going to reach out ever. I would keep sending those monthly follow ups don’t do more than x, you’re gonna annoy them. But monthly follow ups very simple. Just hear if you need me, you know, don’t do anything crazy. And they’ll remember your name, and they actually appreciate it like Sharna has been like, yeah, you’ve been following up. We like that, you know, so

D.J. Paris 28:35
do you and you can do only do it with taxi. It’s so interesting, because we think especially for anyone listening that might be middle aged or sorry, no, by all means, people who are middle aged or you know, even not necessarily that that old. But I know for me, I just I just assume people read their emails. And of course they don’t. Most people don’t read there. It’s like, I’m shocked. Now texting is really the only way I’m, I have a much higher probability to getting a response just from my friends even. And it’s funny we have, like I said, we have about 800 Realtors at our firm. And today we had a, we had to send out a policy update. We just made this like new rule about something. And so we needed to make sure that people knew about it. So of course we sent out emails to their work email, and also their personal just because it was important enough that that they really see it and then and then we’ve done this long enough to go we also need to text everybody because it’s it’s it’s just you know, people don’t read their email. So that’s another you know, suggestion.

Heather Ditlevsen 29:40
Yeah, and I just my friends and marketing extra she just told me this literally this week that 95% of people open their text within the first two minutes of getting it so that’s why if somebody doesn’t respond to me right away, like I know they probably see on it, and they either just don’t want to respond right now. Or like I said, same thing. I’ve had people respond a week later, you know, a month later You know, months later, so I would just say don’t give up. Just because someone’s not responding doesn’t mean they won’t don’t want to work with you. You never know what somebody’s going, you know, you don’t know somebody could have lost their job the next day after you met them, somebody could have had a death in the family the next day. And now here you are, like you want to buy a house, you know. So, you know, you have to take it with a grain of salt and know that they’ll reach out if they want to.

D.J. Paris 30:19
Let’s, let’s talk about new construction. Because I know that for a lot of newer agents, that is just a foreign sort of thing. It’s like I know, I know, top producers can sometimes get these sort of relationships with developers and, you know, they get to sit at you know, maybe there’s a sales center and a particular development or, you know, I just get some other listings or whatever. It’s not that common for a new a newer agent, like yourself to the, to the industry, especially for as young as as you are. It’s really impressive. So I’m super, I know, our audience is really excited to hear about your take on new construction and how you sort of got involved with that.

Heather Ditlevsen 31:00
Yeah, I mean, I’ll contribute it to Josh. So Josh is a for everyone listening, Josh. And hopefully me one day is a developer as well. So I kind of walked myself right into it. And that’s a huge reason why I reached out because I knew he was kind of just starting his developing developer part of my role as I was, as I joined him, he did his very first project. Literally, it completed a few months before I joined him. So I really joined him at like his peak time. And now, if you guys can see behind me, all of these pictures are actually all of our projects, our buildings that we have built. So it’s, it’s been crazy. We have like four just this year coming up for new buildings. So it’s, it’s wild. But yeah, you you know, for me, obviously, I, again, I kind of walked right into it, right. So Josh, and I do a ton of new construction. Like I said, He’s developer on them. And then obviously, also, we’re the brokers. But I have, because we work hand in hand, and he’s the developer. Like, I have a lot of hands on experience that I know, I’ve talked to plenty of agents who’ve been in his 1520 years that still are kind of, you know, unfamiliar with new construction, because it is it’s completely different than your average resale, right. There’s developer contracts, you know, that you put offers on versus your regular, you know, car contract, or, you know, it’s just it’s a completely different ballgame. So, you know, it’s been really, really cool to be a part of that. And to see on the back end, I mean, again, I still don’t know everything, trust me, I don’t, but I know a lot more than probably your average agent. And there’s, it’s been cool. There’s agents in my office that have even come to me and been like, Hey, I have clients buying a new construction. Do you have any suggestions on what we should look for during, you know, showings or final walkthroughs and, you know, it’s cool, you know, you don’t want a developer that’s, you know, you always want to look for a one year developer warranty, you know, there’s a lot of wear on here. There’s a lot of bad passwords out there. There’s a lot of bad developers out there. And so you know, you want to look for certain things and, you know, the reality is a lot of new construction is sold before it’s even, you know, on the market. Right? A lot of I’d say I don’t know, I’d say 50 to 60% of our stuff has sold while either it’s in the framing stage or the drywall stage so you know and for that for buyers that’s scary right? Because they might see renderings you know, we hire we hire you know a person to do renderings for us to show you know, buyers what’s gonna look like because we see the vision right? I can tell you Okay, yeah, powder bath kitchen, whatever. But a buyer is like what the hell is this well for so you know, but it’s still hard for them on a rendering to see that so you know, that’s a huge part of it. You gotta sell the image to people right and that’s that’s it’s you takes a special person to sell that because you know, we walk into a builder selling the dream. I’m selling Yeah, I’m selling an image that they can’t see. So you know, Josh and I, I think we stand out because a lot of developers that you know, we know personally and this is no you know, nothing bad against them. But a lot of developers will hire an actual you know, interior designer or whatever to do seven Josh I do all that ourselves, from the tile to the paint colors, the type of baseboard, you

know everything about the property, I know everything I can tell you where to go get counters, I

can tell you what lights to do. Like we pick everything literally everything we don’t hire anybody so you know, we’re both very hands on I mean, I’m at Studio 41 with him, you know, multiple days a week when we get to that phase of the project like Plumbing we pick it all so when our projects are done, I can truly say like we designed to this like not a single other person besides him and I has a say in any of that stuff. And we we know what buyers looking for, right? Like I know what’s in I know what’s going to sell. So why would I hire somebody else to do it when I know better than anyone.

D.J. Paris 34:42
So I’ll have to ask because I just bought a new a new construction place. So I went I went basically all white like ever white walls, white quartz countertops, white cabinets, or you know all variations of whites and then then all of the fixtures are all dark and black, matte black gap. So I, you know, it’s funny that things, especially fashion and just sort of aesthetics, of course rotate and change and evolve. And so, you know, I was thinking like, it’s so cool. What I like Now the way I think of it, knowing a little bit of a tiny little bit about interior design. I’m like, Oh, this is so cool today. And I want I go, I wonder in 10 years, is are people going to walk in and go? What were these people thinking? And then I realized, of course, they will, of course, they’re going to do that. That’s the nature of evolution of of aesthetics. But that’s why it’s really important for I think, agents to know what’s in now or how to correct what was in 15 years ago,

Heather Ditlevsen 35:44
which Yeah, we saw obviously, we shoe other, you know, resales and stuff. And a lot of the early 2000s Is that cherry color, right? You all know, I had my first place. Yeah, and the cherry cabinets. And when you walk in, you’re like, holy shit. It’s not what I had. Yeah. And the granite, the dark granite counter. So I had

D.J. Paris 35:59
a dark granite countertop.

Heather Ditlevsen 36:01
I can picture your place. Yeah. Another thing Josh and I are really good at is, you know, because we work with a lot of contractors and stuff, we have people for everything, you need new counters, I got you. You need to know where to get lights, I got you, you need a guy to paint your cabinets. I got you like I literally got you covered on every fret. So I think that’s another big thing we bring to our clients that, you know, I’ve been able to like, you know, that’s scary for a client. You know, we a lot of clients who buy, you know, obviously not only new construction, but they might buy something that needs a complete gut, and they’re like, holy crap, where do I start? Like, I don’t even know how to get tile. And like, it’s, you know, what do you do like Google, like best tile person in Chicago? That’s overwhelming. So, you know, I, that’s a huge selling point. For me. I think that’s a huge thing that stands, myself and Josh out for compared to other agents. Because if you don’t, if you don’t do that a lot, like not only do we do new construction, but I’d say I would constantly say 80% of listings we get we convinced our sellers to do some sort of work whether in some of its like total Reno, like kitchens, bathroom floors, like everything, sometimes it’s maybe just new counters, sometimes it’s just painting, like whatever it is. And every we’ve done, you know, every level of it. But like I said, I’d say 80% of our listings we do because again, we know what sells So sure, could we walk in and say you know, don’t do a liquor thing, we’ll schedule photos tomorrow, we’ll list it, but it might sit for a little bit because guess what people don’t want to do work. That’s the real Oh, are lazy, and they don’t want to do work because they don’t know where to start. They don’t know who to call to run a bathroom, they don’t know who to call for new countertops, they, they just don’t know what to do. So, you know, when something’s already done, it’s that much more appealing. And alleging sellers, you know, they get stressed out, like, especially if they’re living there, you know, if they’ve lived through the construction and the dust and don’t get me wrong, it is a pain in the ass. Like, I’m not saying it’s not, but when your house sells for 50k more, you’re gonna thank me. So, you know, that’s another thing that I think stands myself out is, you know, being so new in the industry, because we do so much of that on listings, I have a plethora of contractors I can give you, like I said for anything, and I myself being a licensed interior decorator, but you know, I have a good eye for staff. So I’ve had clients come back after they’ve moved in and asked me for my opinions on stuff and asked what paint colors should I do? And they you know, they actually listen to me. So it’s nice.

D.J. Paris 38:11
Well, I just, I just think how valuable that is, when you’re going around showing older properties to your your buyer clients and they go, I hate those cabinets and you go no, no, that’s it, then you get to say, oh, that’s just gonna cost two grand, and it’ll take a week or something I never said and, and then all of a sudden, you’re like, Don’t worry, I’ve you know, or you know, that old sort of goofy granite countertop that has the weird colors in it, don’t worry, we can swap that out with something different, like a white one or whatever. And that’s, you know, that’s another to grant like, Don’t worry, like, we can fix all this stuff. And I hate that. Yeah, it’s and it’s and I don’t think a lot of realtors have enough knowledge. They know that that can be done. But you have the ability to really say, hey, we do this kind of stuff for our own developments. We know how to how to get this done for you. Like really, it’s no big deal. Don’t let that stop you from from this particular property because we can we could swap all that stuff out. And very few, very few agents have that knowledge. Great. And

Heather Ditlevsen 39:11
we you know, we’re paying, you know, maybe 6070 cents on the dollar for a lot of stuff too. And that’s appealing to them like hey, you’re not paying, you’re not gonna get ripped off by somebody walking into some, you know, granite place and picking out counters and they’re up charging, which I can guarantee you every place does because you’re a new customer and what do you know, you don’t know how much a slab of granite costs so right how much you know, and it’s funny because we had a client actually this summer, she redid her master bath, right? And it was beautiful. She did a great job. And you know, we asked her how much you know I’m like curious how much did you spend on this? And she told us something wild like 30 grand and it wasn’t that big of a bathroom and I go 30 grand. I go Are you kidding me? I go this should have cost at most eight to nine. I’m telling you that and she looked at me and she goes seriously I go oh no probably should have told you that because now you’re gonna kick yourself in the butt but I don’t know who the heck you hired but like, and that’s the truth though. Like People will pay it because they don’t know what it was oh, 2525 No, it doesn’t cost. So

D.J. Paris 40:06
and ultimately, even if it’s after the fact, I think most people, this is just the psychology. I think most people want specialists in their life, even if their specialist is going to tell them something that they can’t change or fix. But the specialist like you goes, you know, you, you, sadly, I think we could have done this a lot cheaper and right, I would think next time, there’s any sort of opportunity, you’re going to be the person they contact because now they trust you. You told them something that that, unfortunately, maybe wasn’t like, for somebody who’s worried about offending somebody, they might say, and I’m just gonna keep that to myself. But you, you said, No, that’s the truth. And you need to know this. And I’m sorry that you sort of maybe paid more than you should have. But next time, just call me because we can we can do this better. And of course, the average person’s never I’m not I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know if I was getting ripped off.

Heather Ditlevsen 40:54
And you don’t yeah, you’re not gonna question because then you look like you’re being cheap. Right? Like, Oh, does it cost that like you just, you know, so

D.J. Paris 41:00
I, before I bought the condo I live in now. Yeah, I actually reached out to several of the people I’ve interviewed on, we have 800 agents at our company, like I’ve said, so i There are plenty of people to ask here. But I said, you know, I want some outside opinions. And I literally, because I’m like, I don’t know. And I literally reached out to three or four producers that have been on our show, and I go, I’m thinking about buying this, is this a good price? Or like I don’t know. And, and, and I’m so grateful I did because they told me. And, and, and I as somebody who’s I mean, I’m technically a realtor, too. I’ve never used my license, but but the reality of it is, is I’m like I better ask around. And so I think this is the value of hat of gaining this knowledge is you get to become really valuable to people.

Heather Ditlevsen 41:44
Yeah, you do. And that’s, you know, it’s funny, I was interviewed by Chicago agent magazine last month. And there was a question, I think in there that said, you know, like, you know, everyone asked them, What makes you stand out, right? And it’s true, because there’s so many agents, right? Why would Jessica hire me over somebody else? Right? So you, you have to, you have to bring value to somebody’s life. And I was listening to this motivational speaker that compass had a couple of months ago. And, you know, he said something along the lines of so many agents and anybody in any sales job really make it about them, right? Like, what are you doing for me? How are you making me money? Right? And yes, at the end of the day, your clients are making you money, right? This is our job. This is how we make money. However, like, that’s not the that’s not the tactic, you have to go into it, you know, you have to change your entire mindset. And he said something that really stuck with me. And it was, you know, he was basically saying, find something that your client likes, enjoys over the course of showing them, right, you get to know your clients, right? Are they into gardening? Are they a good cook, whatever it is, and he goes, even after the sales done, you know, when you send your quarterly follow throughs or twice a year, fellas or whatever, bring up something that is applicable to them, right? You know, if they’re really into dogs as other dogs doing, maybe send a treat to their dog like, that makes you that think, wow, she actually listened to me, and I’m not just another, you know, and the reality is DJ, a lot of agents send out these, you know, not to shoot on agents that do this, but like, the postcards that like Merry Christmas, and it’s like, let’s be honest, nobody gives a shit about this postcard, right? They’re looking at it. Oh, cool, Alex, I’m gonna post our trash like nobody cares

D.J. Paris 43:11
along with along with 20 others that I received from different other people who want my business for others.

Heather Ditlevsen 43:17
And I don’t, I will never quote me now, I will never send a single client a merry christmas postcard a Happy New Year, I would rather send them a personal text ASCO, their daughter Marianne is doing or whatever it is, even if it takes me 10 times longer to send out individual texts versus just like, you know, somebody printing cards and having my assistant mail it. Like, that’s the reality of it. And a lot of these top agents, they don’t make time for it. And I think that’s sad. I’m not saying all of them, trust me. But I think the busier we get, we become less and less personal. So like, for me, you know, I’m not, you know, at that level yet, but it’s nice because, like, make the habits now you know, I, I am on one on one communication with every single client I’ve helped in the last few years, you know, I’ve never had somebody else send a letter for me or a text. And I think you just have to, you have to keep it personal. And otherwise, they’re gonna forget about you. And they’re not going to refer you out, right? Because they’re, they’re nothing about you stuck to them. You’re just somebody who helped them buy a house. So

D.J. Paris 44:12
do you do you store personal information about them in your CRM, where you can go in and say, Oh, this, this person has two kids, and they’re this age, and they’re into gardening and,

Heather Ditlevsen 44:23
and I’ll tell you what, it sounds dumb, but people appreciate it. So for example, in the open house app, and I have people sign in, there is a note section. And I will put in there, you know, lives in, you know, Roscoe village now about to get married and daughter started new school, like I’ll put little stupid notes. And so when I go to follow up with them, it comes in play like hey, you know, it’s Heather. I know you guys are looking for new school for Maryann, you know like personal things and I’m telling you, they’re like, holy shit, she listen to me, you know? So it takes two seconds to write a note make it personal, make it seem like you’re there for them because you are at the end of the day you are there for them. So you know I think that’s key.

D.J. Paris 45:02
Yeah, I 100% I couldn’t agree. I couldn’t agree with you more, I think I think it’s what really talking about I think is fundamentals, right. It’s so much about doing the personal fundamental stuff that people feel special once it’s been done to them. And, and there’s, there’s, I think it’s not, it’s hard work, like you said, it might take 10 times longer to send out personal texts or even people, but they’re not getting that many of those. They’re not.

Heather Ditlevsen 45:37
Yeah, and for me, you know, I might only have 3040 clients. So it’s like, not that much. And obviously, when you’re been doing this for 20 years, you have 5000 clients, or whatever the number is, like, that’s a lot of work. And I get that, but like, you’re not texting everybody every day, you know, and that’s why you have a CRM and I really started to use utilizing that the last like, four or five months only, I’ll be honest, I was really bad at it. And now it’s very organized, I put everybody’s birthday in there, you know, just, you know, the stupid stuff that you want to tell people that you’re like, I simply cannot keep a track, you know, in my head, obviously, if so,

D.J. Paris 46:06
I mean, I was thinking, you have everybody’s birthday. So you know, every day you probably wake up and it tells you this is so and so’s birthday. I’m curious. So So obviously, we all have birthdays, I’m thinking about now I’m in this industry, but there’s a lot of other industries with salespeople who are trying to get business could be a financial adviser, an accountant, it could be anything, any lots of insurance, a million types of people who would probably like to have someone’s business. And I’m thinking about, I never get prospected by almost anybody. And not only that, I not only almost never get prospected I never get text messages. Certainly I never get personalized text messages. I don’t even get personalized text messages. And nothing against the people like in my life that my accountant and my financial. Like they’re all wonderful. I love them. I don’t expect anything from them. They’re great. They’ve earned their place, but I’m but I don’t even get text messages from them. Yeah,

Heather Ditlevsen 47:06
I’m not sad. Yeah. Well,

D.J. Paris 47:08
it’s not that it’s not that I need it. But I’m just saying. It’s not that I need it from people I’ve already hired, but I do love it. But what I’m saying is it’s not crowded along. What’s that? It’s that book, Scott Peck I think wrote in the 70s called, it’s never crowded along the extra mile or something like that. It legitimately is never crowded along the extra mile. Because people Yeah, people are gonna send postcards at Christmas. They’re gonna send me they’re gonna send these monthly email newsletters about real estate that their company I mean, yeah, and that’s fine. I mean, whatever, that whatever. But But how many times did somebody during COVID? Ever? Who wasn’t my close friend reach out to me and say, Hey, man, how are you doing? How are you doing right now? Like, how’s your everything? Okay? Yeah, other than my friends and family, not zero, a one person, the person who cuts my hair who I’m seeing tomorrow night. She is the only person I’ve been with her like, 10 plus years, and she absolutely does not have to do it. And she’s the only one that said I was just thinking about you. How are you doing? How’s everything going? And it really meant a lot to me. And right now, guys, we’re still in the middle of a pandemic, like this is still an opportunity where you can demonstrate care and compassion, and just go hey, I’m just checking in how’s everything going? Are you still working from home? What’s going on? And and develop a deepen those relationships? I love the fact that that you do that? I think that yeah,

Heather Ditlevsen 48:26
I’m definitely overly communicative. And that’s something I think that stands out. I always tell people, I never want my clients to have to reach out to me. And so everyone should take that advice. You never want your client to have to text you and say, what’s the status? Yeah, what’s going on? Yeah, if they text you, you’re doing something wrong, you need to be on top of it and say, Hey, morning, just wanted to let you know, inspection report just came back, let’s hop on a call at five o’clock today and go over everything, whatever it is, my client should never ever, ever, ever, unless it’s something random or things like that. They have a question. But if it’s something regarding this, you know, the normal sale process, I should be letting them know, like, and I am definitely overly communicative. But I’d rather be that way. And for any clients of mine that may listen to this, you know, I’m gonna send them this little podcast. They know like, I will send them messages just randomly be like, hey, just checking in. I know the market Secretary now and there’s nothing but just saying hi, you know, like, I’m still here, and I’m still here for whatever you need. They need to know that, you know, it’s important. They don’t You don’t want no one should feel like you just forgot about them ever.

D.J. Paris 49:27
I think you’re also talking about anticipating needs ahead of time and realizing that the process for buying or selling a home no matter how if it’s somebody’s first time or their 10th time it’s still incredibly stressful. It’s still a roller coaster. something’s gonna go wrong at some point in the process, something some wrinkle is going to happen where people who are your clients gonna freak out because of course they will. And and, and this is where I think anticipating in advance. Oh, this is the part I just got some news that I have to give to the client. They’re going freakout so now I have to make sure that I already have a sort of a pre conditioned response to say, Hey, I know you’re gonna freak out right now, but don’t and here’s why. And, and, and this way, because I think so many clients, and I know this is for me, too, I’m in the industry. And when I just bought a property was not my first property. And I was freaking out. I mean, everything was going well, and I was freaking out. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, am I making a big mistake? What’s going on? And, and ultimately, I had to ask people, and I’m in the industry, and I had to ask, and I’m like, Man, if I sort of know what’s going on, and I was completely freaking out, the average buyer and seller, no matter how successful or not they are, whether they’re a top CEO of a company, or if they’re, you know, have a more normal blue collar job, whatever the situation is, they’re probably freaking out, too. And if you come and say, Hey, I was just thinking about you, here’s what, here’s what’s going on. Because you’re right, my, I now work for him. But but many, many years ago, when I bought my first place, I wasn’t in this industry. And my, my friend was my realtor, because we work with our friends. And Nick had that same pot in the Nick, who was my realtor was, he had the same policy, we’re afterwards when I started working for him. I go, boy, you are really great realtor. And he said, he said, Oh, no, no, because it’s a lot about just customer service. And he said, he goes, he had the same exact goal that you had, he said, I never wanted my clients to have to call me first. Because that was my only real goal. And he goes because of that. People just thought I was right on top of things. So

Heather Ditlevsen 51:32
you have to be and you know, you should be sending me updated email, like, yeah, I could talk about it forever. But always be

D.J. Paris 51:39
asking for referrals. Do you do it or not? Curious?

Heather Ditlevsen 51:43
So I don’t and I should, it’s another I

D.J. Paris 51:49
think your show?

Heather Ditlevsen 51:50
I think I listen, I am not the pushy type of agent, salesperson, we’re going to call it there are agents that will do that you’ll finish a transaction will be closing day you say thank you so much for your business, whatever. And a lot. I mean, I know agents who they put, they kind of send like a, you know, formal email at the end. And like, there might be a thing that says, you know, obviously, keep me in mind for referrals, you know, it’s a casual, it’s not like pushing you to do that. The way again, back to what I said earlier, the way my head works is, if they were impressed with me, and they think I did a good job. If they’re out at dinner one night, and their friends are talking about buying a place, my name is gonna come to the head. I’ll give you Heather’s number, it already has happened. If they weren’t impressive me, and they’re probably not. And guess what, I don’t want their clients business if they weren’t president, because that’s not a good way to meet somebody. Like she did a shitty job for us. But here’s her number, you know. So, I mean, I don’t push it as much as I probably could, you know, maybe, you know, I could start giving prizes. You know, you get $100 gift card, if you remember.

D.J. Paris 52:43
But some people do that. I mean, it’s it’s obviously there’s, you know, different approaches, but But I, I used to work in a sales capacity in the finance world a million years ago here in Chicago, and we talked to the one of the top guys in our office, and it was a very top tier sort of white glove type of firm, which is very professional and not super salesy, however. And anyway, I asked the one of the top guys there, I said, How do you ask for business? He goes, if you do it, right, you don’t have to. Now I’m not saying that this is the answer for everyone. But he said if you do it right, you don’t have to really ask because you have to demonstrate value. And if you can demonstrate value, eventually people just go Oh, yeah, of course I’m gonna use you, you know,

Heather Ditlevsen 53:26
100%. And even like Josh and I more so Josh than maybe like, hello, clients or clients, friends that will ask they know, he does a lot of new construction and rehab. So if they’re doing they might not be looking at yourself, they just want to hear their bathroom. Right? They’ll ask him for his opinion. Well, guess what? Maybe there’s some three years and they remember Josh being helpful during their bathroom. So and I have that too. I have my one good friend actually. She’s like, trying to buy her place. And she’s like, if I redo everything, I’m hiring you because I know you know what you’re doing? And I’m like, yes, thank you. $100 an hour but yeah. But yeah, it’s very it’s nice to have know that you bring some value to somebody’s life. Everybody in every field should feel that way.

D.J. Paris 53:59
So what is your policy? So after the sale, you still have their you have their birthdays, you those are obvious times to reach out. Are you considering doing other things like some people call on the anniversary of a buyer a sale and be like, Hey, it’s your anniversary?

Heather Ditlevsen 54:14
Yeah, I mean, I, I haven’t done that part of it. I haven’t done that yet. You know, all my sales have been last year. So I haven’t hit like the one year yeah, I mean, some of them are coming close. So I guess I could I never really thought about that. I just, I stay in touch with everybody, though so frequently, that I don’t feel like you know, the agents that do that are usually the ones that like they won’t talk to you. They send you this like robotic email or something like, I don’t know, like I am in touch with. I’ll just text him for the heck of it. Like hey, just checking in everything good. Like, you know, I’ll randomly ask them like, hey, you know, everything’s set up with the HOA, like, I might remember a problem that came up, you know, it’s like, I don’t know, for me, I feel like I talked to them enough like randomly that I feel like I don’t need to send some robotic like happy one year you know, I mean, it’s cute and all but like, do they really care like You know, but birthdays I think are smart. And even even on my CRM, you know, it’ll send me an email a day before so I set it up, let me know if so and so’s birthday is tomorrow, but I won’t send like I’m not gonna send to the, I’m not gonna send it to an email, like, I’m going to still send you a personalized text. The CRM just reminds me like, again, the email, like who wants their realtor send him an email, like that’s so impersonal. So yeah, for me, texting is everything, especially you know, myself being a millennial, I attract a lot of millennial clients. So I feel like let’s be honest, we’re all on our phones all the time, and we checked instantly. So you also have to know what clientele works for you, I’m not going to go after, you know, that’s another big thing I would tell new people like know what works for you, if you’re new in the business and your 60s, like, go after that sphere, they probably you know, they’re probably they’re not first time buyers in their 60s, they probably have a higher price point, like good for you, like go for it. For me, you know, it’s friends family, or like I said, people at open houses or that I feel like I connect with are the ones that usually the ones that reach out, are the ones that I connect with, right? I’ve, I’ve talked to a million people, open houses, you know, older couples, couples that maybe we have a little language barrier and everything, you know, seems nice, but they ended up ultimately, they’re not going to be the ones that work with me because we’re interested in connect on that level. Right? You know, if someone mostly speaks Spanish, I don’t speak any Spanish, like they’re not gonna want to they want somebody they can speak Spanish to right like so you have to know your you have to know the clientele that binds with you.

D.J. Paris 56:26
I want to ask too, about rentals, because as you mentioned, a lot of your your friends and people you’re in your age group, maybe aren’t yet buying I know, like I bought my first place I was one of the last people with my friends to do it. And I was I was 30. And at the time when I bought my first one. So I would have been a renter. And I never used a realtor when I was a renter, because I just found things on it. I didn’t really even think about it. But had I had used a realtor when I was a renter. And if they would have stayed in touch and said, Hey, you should be buying a place. And quite frankly, being that I was sort of in the finance world at that time, I was embarrassed to not really understand how buying a home actually work. And this is really sort of pre even YouTube being a big thing or it even it just we weren’t as conditioned to go online and really learn as much as we are now where now I just I mean, my whole home is is connected with Google, I just I literally we just asked out loud, hey, what about this or that? And but but that didn’t exist back then. And so I know I was a little embarrassed to even reach out to find out and I’m thinking I’m just curious. And I know you do mostly sales, of course. But we don’t you know, I I think we I think agents miss out on rental opportunities, not as a way to get by to become wealthy and rentals. I guess you could be but rentals are a great way to start a relationship. I

Heather Ditlevsen 57:54
think 100%. And actually, that’s how Josh mostly got started. Because back when he started he went to like, forget what he says I’m gonna butcher the story about he went to like his old college campus. And basically it was like helping people find rentals. And yes, that’s right, that. Yeah. So yeah, I haven’t done a ton of rentals. I mean, I’ve obviously done some. Yeah, I mean, I regularly reach out to them, you know, and just say, you know, let me know, when you’re ready to buy and a couple have and I know a couple will, you know, on the lease is up next year, and I’ve listened a lot of agents, you know, especially their top producers, and I can’t blame them. Like, they don’t want to do it. Because it’s like, you’re not making that much and you’re doing kind of just as much work. Like that’s the reality of it, right? But you have to think big picture. And for somebody who’s newer, like myself or anyone else, though, renters eventually turn into buyers, right? Whether it’s in a year, three years, five years, and guess what, then they sell and they buy again and they refer you so you know, you kind of do the big picture like okay, I might only make $600 on this. And if they buy in a year good for me, you know, so yeah, I like I said, I’ve I’ve done maybe five or six rentals, which is hardly anything but those ones that I have done. Yeah, I do. I stay in regular touch with them. And they know I’m here when they’re ready to buy and we talk about it, you know, and I when they’re ready. Again, I’m not that pushy, and I’m here so yeah, I think it is a great way to do it and people who choose not to or just missing another opportunity, honestly.

D.J. Paris 59:14
Yeah, I think sounds like the main theme of what you do is is personal connection. It’s a lot

Heather Ditlevsen 59:19
of percent it’s everything. Yeah. Yeah. And really

D.J. Paris 59:23
sort of anticipating someone’s someone’s needs through the process and sort of understanding. Okay, I My job is to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible. So I’m going to, I’m going to be the problem solver, which by the way, it takes up a huge part of an agent’s day, right like, oh, yeah, finding new business. You know, that takes up some part of the agent’s day, maybe that’s an hour, but I always Brian Buffini was sort of famous for saying if there’s an eight hour day, he said if you could spend one hour looking for business, you’re a superstar because you’re going to be spending at least Six or seven of the other seven hours working with your existing clients, but so yeah, so it doesn’t you don’t have to spend all day looking for business. But if you can just do a few things, hey, I’m thinking about you text or happy birthday.

Heather Ditlevsen 1:00:16
Yeah, yeah, I don’t, you know, I’ll Josh kind of helps bring in leads and stuff only because he’s been doing it longer, you know, hopefully in another five years I’ll have the same thing. But most of your day, yeah, I mean, I focus on the people you do have as clients, right? So many agents are like, How can I find more? How can I find more? And it’s like, well, you’re not even, you have 10 buyers you’re working with and like, maybe start, you know, I’ve, you know, as we all know, agents listening, there’s no inventory right now. So I have like six buyers all ready to go pre approved, ready to write tomorrow, but we can’t find anything. So like, maybe spend your days you know, Josh and I are, you know, a top 10% producing team. So we have access to off market stuff, which any other chat producer also does, but not everyone, obviously. So we utilize that. I mean, I found a lot of clients in the past properties via off market stuff, the reality is all the good stuff will sell off market. So, you know, focus your time looking on those to find the clients, you do have stuff or like, you know, I really, I’ve knocked on doors before, you know, I have clients who only want to be in a certain building, okay. You know, use your marketing dollars with your brokerage to get postcards made, and literally spend four hours a day and most slide I’m under the door. I’m about to do that this week for a client. So like, you know, do like spend your time on the people you actually have as clients like, the new ones will come organically at least that’s my mindset. And that’s how I want them to come. Right. I mean, there are agents that spend 30 grand a month on Zillow, which, you know, I can’t even financially do that right now. But even if I could, it’s like, there’s no connection. It’s like they meet at the property. You know, they know nothing about that. Yeah. It’s like, Hi, I’m Heather, you know, it’s not, that’s not the type of client I want. I’d rather.

D.J. Paris 1:01:56
And also, there’s a thing to that. And I look, Zillow has has been a guest on our show, and we’re actually hopefully going to be bringing this a little back as a little sneak for everyone. We’re in discussions with them. We’re big, big fans. But but that there’s, I mean, there’s a thing too, about being a woman right, and your pictures there. And sometimes people might choose you for maybe not as completely honest of a reason. Right? Or they might happen. I’m sure that’s happened and, and there’s safety considerations with that as well. And there’s, there’s just a lot it’s not that there’s anything wrong with it. It’s certainly cost. We have live interview tons of people who buy Zillow leads, and I think it’s great. I mean, bad I wish I could No, no, I know you weren’t but but it is, it is like something that would Heather’s would have they’re saying is, there is no, you really have to work to build that connection with this stranger. And typically, you’re gonna meet them for the first time at the property. And that’s just tough to do. It’s just

Heather Ditlevsen 1:02:55
tough and you’re trying to sell them on your personality. And listen, the reality is, even if you got a zillo lead, they have no commitment to you, you might spend a whole day showing them 17 properties and if they didn’t vibe with you, guess what, they’re never gonna call you again. So, you know, I again, would rather have it organically and referrals, obviously.

D.J. Paris 1:03:09
Awesome. Well, I think that’s a great, great place to wrap up. Heather, you’ve given so much great value and I want to definitely invite you to come back on the show or maybe in a few years when you’re just like you know, when once you hit 30 and then I want to see where you’re at because the fact that you did 13 and a half million your first year and it wasn’t like business was really just handed to you. I I know you’re you have a great mentor and Josh is a lovely guy and and certainly helped along the way but but you really it’s it’s really clear that that you’ve put the work in and which is I’m sure why Josh brought Yan and I think that well together. Yeah. And I think it’s it’s just about fundamentals, hardwork discipline, staying in touch with people showing that you care about them and providing incredible value and I think for everyone listening you know, make this the year that you develop relationships with contractors developers, go spend, you know, an afternoon in a contractor’s office and just say I just want to talk to you about I come across buyers all the time I show them places the cabinets suck the you know the granite sucks or you know, what should I be quoting them as far as time money How easy is this to do and then oh yeah Mr. or Mrs. Contractor I’m gonna give you all the business once that happens but I want to learn so that when somebody walks in they don’t go oh that kitchens really gross. Be like no problem for 20 grand and we can maybe we can even work it into the deal somehow we can get that fixed out or maybe it’s five grand or whatever the amount is. That is an incredible value that most agents

Heather Ditlevsen 1:04:48
don’t have and I’ve had almost every seller and buyer mine I’ve used you know, I’ve given that speech to and they’ve all utilized it so it’s never gonna go anywhere. My last little base is always have more than one contractor because contractors can be flaky just like anyone else can be. And you never know. And a lot of times clients want more than one quote. So you should try to make connections with multiple people and just have you know, multiple resources you can call when you need to.

D.J. Paris 1:05:12
Awesome. Well, Heather, oh, how do you know we didn’t mention how there’s social media? What’s the best way? If anyone, audience wants to learn more about you and follow you? What how should they do that?

Heather Ditlevsen 1:05:22
Yeah. My Instagram, my gosh, I need to get better. It’s just my first and last name put together. So Heather Detlef, then maybe I’ll put the handle in the buyer or something. My last name I know, is a million letters long, but it’s just first last name smushed together. They can also reach out to me directly. You can put my number in here if you need. I’m always happy to like meet a coffee. If you’re buying if you’re selling if you’re in the industry, like whatever you need. I’m here. I love making new friends. So

D.J. Paris 1:05:47
whatever. Yeah, Heather’s extraordinarily generous with her time. She’s She’s a lovely person. And you just got back from vacation, right? Yeah, I

Heather Ditlevsen 1:05:53
don’t know. You can tell me I’m hopefully a little tan. Yeah, you look really tan. Where’d you go? I was in Tulum for six days it where I have. I have.

D.J. Paris 1:06:01
I’ve only been to Tulum as a day trip from Cancun.

Heather Ditlevsen 1:06:06
Yes. So to lose about two hours away from Cancun? Yeah, it’s its own little. I kept calling it an island. My friends. Like we’re not on an island on the mainland. But yeah, it’s one strip of road and everything’s on that road. And if people have been they know what I’m talking about, but everyone should go. I went with a couple girlfriends. It was by far the best week of my life. I’m already depressed. I’m back here. I just got back late yesterday. So yeah, it’s been it was an amazing week and ready to dive right back in now.

D.J. Paris 1:06:35
Did you go to any of them? I think they’re called snow days. Yeah.

Heather Ditlevsen 1:06:39
Three of them. Yeah, that’s a no days for anyone listening is kind of like, there’s different kinds. But yeah, you kind of swim.

D.J. Paris 1:06:45
Underground. Rock or water was?

Heather Ditlevsen 1:06:48
Yeah, we did a tour on the one we went to three different ones. Yeah. They’re very inexpensive. It’s like 20 bucks to go to them usually. Yeah, it was very cool. And whoever decides to follow me, I’m sorry, but you’ll see a million pictures for the next month until

D.J. Paris 1:07:02
you have to next time if you’re in that area should go to cheat sheets as well.

Heather Ditlevsen 1:07:06
We wanted to but we did. Yeah. There’s also like the Mayan ruins. There’s just Yeah. Then you also just want to lay on the beach and be lazy. There’s a lot to do I could honestly two weeks would have been amazing. But you know it’s very very expensive down there way more than you thought to so oh really is it’s expensive. The food the drinks, the there’s a lot of cute boutiques, I bought some clothes down there. Everything is very, very pricey. Just keep that in mind for anyone going. But yeah, it was it was absolutely amazing. So everyone should

D.J. Paris 1:07:34
get well, great. Well, we appreciate and Heather was so sweet to to be here basically on our first day back, which nobody, nobody wants to do this on their first day back. So

Heather Ditlevsen 1:07:43
I appreciate it. I’m very grateful. Thank you so much for having me.

D.J. Paris 1:07:47
We’re so excited. There’s you have such a great energy to you. And I love talking to new agents who are so happy. And they’re excited about this industry. And really, our audience loves it. So for everyone listening, please follow Heather on Instagram, we will put the link to her Instagram had their debt Lipson in the show notes, so you can click through right there. And check out what she’s all about and reach out to her. She’s a super generous person. If you have questions or just suggestions, she would be loved to talk with you as well. So yes. Let’s do it. Wonderful. Well, Heather, thank you so much. On behalf of our listeners, and our viewers, thank you so much for being on our show. We appreciate it. We know how busy you are, and really honor you for taking the time. And on behalf of Heather and myself. We want to thank our listeners and viewers for continuing to support our show. And we are at an all time high as far as downloads. And that is not anything other than because our as our listeners tell other people about our show. So thank you so much. We are I think our fifth or sixth year of doing the show, and we have more downloads than we’ve ever had. And so please continue to tell a friend if you could just think of one other real estate professional that could benefit from hearing this wonderful conversation with him either send them a link to our website is probably the best way to do it. Every episode we’ve ever done as you can stream right from our site, which is keeping it real pod.com Or if the person you’re referring to or is already a podcast listener, just have them pull up keeping it research for keeping it real, hit that subscribe button. And one last thing that we’re asking everyone to do, please leave us a review, you know, whatever type of app you might be listening to our show through, whether it’s iTunes or now called Apple podcast, or Stitcher, Spotify, Pandora, you know google play any thing just let us know what you think of the show. This helps us improve and also helps us get in front of more people to to help so thank you so much, Heather. We appreciate you. This is a great a lot of fun. And we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks other Yeah, thanks. Bye, guys.

Matt Lionetti with The Agency in Toronto Canada describes how he transitioned from music industry to a new career in real estate business. Matt talks about the start of shooting comedy videos relating to real estate and how this has helped build his business and he also emphasizes the importance of niche-ing down to attract your audience. Matt and DJ discuss quality vs. quantity when it comes to social media content. Last, Matt discusses how to build your community around whatever is authentic about.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Please check Matt’s Freddy Mercury video which helped change his career by clicking here.

Please subscribe to Matt’s Over Ask podcast by clicking here.

Matt Lionetti can be reached at (416) 890-3442

This episode is brought to you by RealGeeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I am your guide and host through the show. And in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with Matt lionetti about humor and the role of comedy in promoting oneself as a realtor and just having a lot of fun. By the way, Matt’s YouTube videos which are not just on YouTube, they’re all over are the very funniest best realtor videos I’ve ever seen. We have a link to them in the notes. So please go check them out. And you’ll see why we’re talking to Matt. But before we get to Matt, just a couple of quick reminders. One, please keep telling a friend about the show. If every time you listen to the show, you just told one other person about us? Well, gosh, it would be a huge growth, jumping growth numbers for us. But just tell one person we really really appreciate it helps us reach more people and help more people and also helps keep our podcast going. So thanks. And also leave us a review. If you have a moment. whatever system you might be listening to this episode on, whether it’s Apple podcasts or Stitcher or Google Play or Spotify or wherever, please let us know what you think about the show. Leave us a review. We appreciate it. But enough about me let’s get to the main event my interview with Matt lionetti.

So today on the show we have Matt Lyon Eddie from agency in Toronto, Canada. Now Matt is a real estate agent and content creator with the agency in Toronto. Matt has built his brand on funny, clever and sometimes polarizing content that whether you like it or not demands your attention, now earning millions of organic views on social media, his unconventional approach has landed him on some of the biggest stages speaking with Ryan serhant, Gary Vaynerchuk. And Tom Ferry, Matt has forged his own path and become a fan favorite among agents and clients alike. Everyone, please go to Matt’s website, which is metline eddie.com. And that is Ma TT l i o n e t t i.com. Also, there’s a link to that here in our show notes. And before I just bring on Matt, I want to let you know how we got introduced to him. So we are subscribers of this amazing service called Coffee and contracts, which is in conjunction with the broke agent, which probably all of our listeners follow the broke agent on Instagram. And Facebook, if you don’t do a coffee and contracts is a is one of their little side businesses. And they sent out something with one of Matt’s videos which I had not been familiar with Matt, prior to where it was a map sort of doing a parody or satire of a Chris Hallmark Christmas movie, which I’m sure all of our listeners know about these. And then using that as you know, a showing that a realtor would be going through and it is it is just brilliantly done. And we immediately my producer and I were like we got to book this guy. So we are so thrilled to have Matt on the show. So Matt, welcome.

Matt Lionetti 4:30
Thank you so much. What an introduction. I haven’t had an introduction like that before. That’s fantastic. We,

D.J. Paris 4:36
by the way, Matt also hosts a podcast so I almost forgot to mention that. So Matt is a co host of a really great show called over ask which is the broke agent also, you know, they have the show and Matt hosts it with with the owner of the broke agent and and you know so and by the way the link to that so everyone should subscribe to over ask that is also in our show notes, so please subscribe out there and check out their show. But Matt, tell us a little bit about why real estate or how you got into real estate.

Matt Lionetti 5:07
Yeah. So before this, I was a touring musician. And I toured right out of high school for years. Wow. And it just got so I always said, like, when it stops being fun, I should maybe take a step back, because it was such a huge passion of mine for so many years. And I was hired to, you know, go on tour with different artists and record for different artists and also taught music. And, you know, for a musician, it was I was making a living, which a lot of musicians don’t. So at least I had that. But then, at the same time, I was watching like, million dollar listing a lot. And we were I remember my wife, my, my then girlfriend, now wife was, we’re on vacation in Florida. And we were in I remember the exact moment, I knew I was gonna get into real estate, we were in a cab, and our cab drivers was bringing us through and telling us about all his investment properties. And this is like when I was big on Million Dollar Listing and Ryan serhant, in particular, and right in that cab ride, I was like, I think I want to stop playing music and try real estate and like settle down a bit. I don’t have to travel all the time and do that stuff. And like, you know, go play a show for $200, like seven hours away and maybe get paid, maybe not that type of thing. So when we got back from the vacation, I started my courses. And now I’m here. That was like five, six years ago. I’ve been an agent for five years now.

D.J. Paris 6:37
Wow. And you know, when did you start? So really, your music is your background? And but also, if you watch Matt’s videos, he is an incredibly funny writer. And was comedy always a part of your life? I know music is if you’re watching us. You can see Matt has some some albums on display. But he was a touring musician. Oh, by the way, before I asked about comedy, what instrument did you play were?

Matt Lionetti 7:03
I was a guitar. So I taught every instrument like at the music school I taught at because I played drums and bass and guitar and piano and stuff. But guitar was my main instrument. And yeah, that’s where I would I got hired for.

D.J. Paris 7:17
Yeah, so you would tour? Did you have one particular band? Or were you a guy that would go on tour when when other bands needed? Needed guitar players?

Matt Lionetti 7:26
Yeah. So at first I was had my own band, and we tried our thing. And then after that ended, it was just kind of Yeah, just go play with whoever would hire me.

D.J. Paris 7:36
That’s awesome. And then so how did how did you start making funny videos because I could, I would love to sit and talk to you about how you grew your business when you started without having a real estate really background. But I really want to know about the comedy side of it because it is so unique and refreshing. And the broke agent is like a perfect sort of obvious partner for you with with your podcast, because of course that’s what they do as well. But there aren’t many other players in that space. At least I haven’t found many. There’s a lot of agents that maybe try to do try to be funny and whether they succeed or not, as is, you know, another another question, but But you do succeed. So how did you first of all, were you always a fan of comedy?

Matt Lionetti 8:16
Yeah, always a fan. So like, my dad is an A hilarious person. And we would like we I remember so many weekends, we would just stay in together and he would show me Richard Pryor. Robin Williams. Sure. Like the man Eddie Murphy, like a big, huge, you know, stand up comics and then we would always watch movies and it was we both gravitated towards comedy movies. So, you know, I grew up watching like, you know, John Ritter and like super like, you know, that kind of like problem child and Caddyshack and back to school. So like, always, like, I just loved comedy, but I never did anything with it. Like I’ve never acted before these videos. I’ve never, never wrote like a comedy skit before this, but it was just something that I loved so much. Always, like, I was always such a fan of comedy. I was a bit of like, a class clown. And it just kind of like, when I got into real estate, I was like, I you know, I got into it because I thought I had a good personality. And I thought that’s what I could really hang my hat on. And for the first three years of real estate I ironically lost all my personality because I was trying to be something else. So I didn’t start the video so about two years ago, and that’s when everything started taking off for me before that I was doing nothing. It was terrible. So yeah, the comedy has always been a big part of my life not really, you know, it wasn’t like I saw it and then I pursued a career in stand up comedy or acting or anything but I’ve just always been such a fan and and really appreciated the art of comedy.

D.J. Paris 9:55
And and let’s talk about about the vit some of the videos that you’ve put together because as they are amazing. I’ve only seen them on YouTube I imagine they’re all over Facebook and Instagram and, and other social social media outlets. But talk a little bit about some of your, your videos and the response that you’ve received and, and how has this helped grow your business as an individual agent?

Matt Lionetti 10:20
Yeah, so the response has been mainly great, which I didn’t know what to expect at first, because when you try something new a lot of the times, and I do get this, you know, people don’t like it, they don’t want anything that’s different from what everyone else is doing. And I really kind of niched down. So I’ll swear a lot in the videos, I really don’t have any boundaries anymore. When it comes to that. Some people get offended by that. It’s never my intent to offend anyone I shy away, I grew up swearing wasn’t an issue, like it’s not offensive or anything. So I didn’t think it was gonna be a big issue. But that’s mainly people say like, oh, you’re making like, a mockery? Or you’re giving, you know, agents a bad reputation. And I was like, I don’t know if you guys are aware, but like, we don’t got the best fucking reputation to begin with. But like, yeah, it’s just I don’t know. And then, as soon as I it’s so funny, because as soon as I niched down on the marketing, yeah, my whole business got broader, and you would think the opposite. But when you niche down and really focus on a specific thing, you get those people, and the people who don’t like you, the people who do like you 10 times more, because those other people don’t. And, yeah, just really niche down. And that’s like anything, anyone will tell you that in any business now, niche down, find something to focus on. And then you’re going to attract the you know, like minded people, and you can be on your way.

D.J. Paris 11:53
So that’s, it’s a really good piece of advice is don’t try to be all things to all all clients, or all potential clients, because the people that like you, who in particular are finding your content on social, you know, they’re following you on Facebook, or LinkedIn or Twitter, Instagram, etc. Tick tock. You really don’t need hundreds of 1000s of followers to be a successful real estate agent making content, but you need to have a core group of people that like what you do. And you’re right, there is a little bit of a like, I feel like I’m in the club now that likes your work. And part of me is like, well, I, I just know that his quality of content is comedy is really strong. So and I and if someone else were to say, Oh, I don’t think that’s appropriate for a real estate agent, which nobody’s ever said that to me. But if anyone did, I’d be like, Oh, no, that’s i That’s why I like him, because I like that he’s it. Quality is always King, right? And so your quality, your quality control is really strong. The videos are amazing, the level of production is solid, the music of course, I imagine you do a lot with the music because you that’s your background, but you’re absolutely right about not needing everyone to like you and and even as I know, sometimes your your content could be considered polarizing, but it’s it’s never i To me, it’s not polarizing at all. I just think it’s funny. And I think boy, I’d love to hire a realtor like that, because it really shows your level of, of just sort of creativity. It’s it whether you find it funny or not. It’s incredibly professional. I don’t know who wouldn’t find it funny, but but I think that’s something that agents oftentimes are just afraid to do. In particular, the funny thing, right, I think agents struggle enough with like, if I’m going to put a Facebook live video out today, is it okay, if I just turn my phone around my makeup if I’m a woman, you know, if somebody wears makeup, their makeup isn’t right, or their hair isn’t right, or they just woke up and they don’t look their their best. They might feel some trepidation about even pushing that record button. So I know agents struggle to even figure out how to present themselves on social as they are much less right like a funny sketch. But the reality of it is, is everybody likes comedy, right? Like you would You’d almost think there was more of it in this industry. Because why not?

Matt Lionetti 14:27
And yet show it show industry like there’s so much to make fun of like estate, the things that happen to real estate agents are crazy.

D.J. Paris 14:39
Totally crazy. And I’m just curious on you know, as as our audience oftentimes writes in and asks us questions about, hey, you know, how much should I be promoting on social and it’s not like you’re creating sketches daily, right, like the how much time does Is it take like, for example, the the Hallmark sort of movie parody that you did, which was, I don’t know, maybe that was 90 seconds, or maybe two minutes total of content, how long? How much time did you put into producing? You know, shooting it? Like what was the overall time commitment there?

Matt Lionetti 15:17
Yeah. So I mean, I’m so I do two types of videos. I do like stuff that I record myself just from, I have a camera and do that. But I have a production team who does the kind of more in depth stuff like that Hallmark video or home mat, as I called it, that I don’t like to be on location filming for a long time. So we are so prepared before we go. And so I’ll write the script in the script, just, you know, as I’m, I give myself a deadline for I needed done by here. But then I have a Zoom meeting with my video crew for one hour. And we storyboard the entire thing that way, I know, okay, we’re gonna be there for this amount of time. We’re shooting these scenes here, here and here. So there’s no hemming and hawing when we get there. I know exactly what I’m going to say. I know exactly what room I’m going to be in, I know exactly what outfit I’m going to be in. So that video took about two hours to fill all in. Because we’re just and and my guys even know, I even tell them, we scout the place. Or I’ll take a picture of the place that we’re filming. And they’ll know before they go in where they’re going to set up the lights every day. So like, because I tell them I’m not been on set for fucking six hours, man, I’m not Leonardo DiCaprio. Right. So like. So we try and be as productive as possible. And I love doing it. But like, I don’t know, to me, it’s always been like, I want to hit it when there’s that. That like I don’t want to be overworked on a set to the point where like, I’m not producing or I’m not acting my best on screen, because I’m just not really stoked about it anymore. Because I’ve been there for seven hours. Yeah, right. Oh, so I try and like strike like, oh, yeah, this is good. Okay, let’s go. And like, I want to be there and like, hopped up, and I’ve rehearsed my lines, like, mainly in the shower. Like, I’ll just rehearse, let’s make sure I know everything and how I want them delivered. And, you know, it’s like, I’m done in one or two takes, like, it’s not like, I don’t think much about it. And that’s why I think, I think people sometimes they overthink and overthink, and they do it 20 times, and really, they should have just kept the first or second take because that fire was still in them that they wanted to do it by the 19th 20th take, you know, it’s not really there anymore. They’re not. They’re not convicting the way they want to anymore. And that like, you know, how they want to project their, whatever they’re trying to project. So yeah, I really don’t overthink it. And I think that’s the best way to do it.

D.J. Paris 17:50
And how quickly when you started making videos, did you start getting a reaction where you knew how these were landing with, with your, you know, prospective audience, like, did it take, you know, was it you know, you made one video and it just sort of took off? Or was it? You know, a slower process?

Matt Lionetti 18:08
Yeah, so the first one, I think, because in the real estate comedy space, there’s really not much going on for video. So pretty much the first one, I had a listing, I did a video, it got picked up by a couple of meme places right away, I sold that listing in like seven hours. Three offers and two of the offers came from the video. And this was, you know, after I was on two teams prior to this, I left the last team to go solo. And it was really like my last, my last chance I wasn’t having success. And I was like, I don’t know what to do. I might leave the industry. Like it just wasn’t working for me. I had these ideas since I got into the industry. Everyone told me no, you can’t do that. It’s not professional. So when I went solo, I was like, You know what, I need any to try something. So I just I just figured like I was I was him and and Hans so much about it, like, you know, should I do it? Should I not? If i How’s this gonna look on my brand, if I if I do something funny, they’re not gonna like my brand. And then it all clicked one day. And I was like, I’m being so precious about a brand that I don’t have. Nobody knows who I who I am. So like, the thing is, is I could post the video and it could potentially do amazing. Or I could post it and you know, people may not like it, but I could also not post it and just have a lot of the same, which was nothing. So I was like, you know, I’m gonna post this shit. And right away it was like the most engagement I’d ever gotten on a post. So then that was enough for me it didn’t necessarily like start bringing in a bunch of business right away, but I had nothing nothing was sticking. So at very least, I was getting some traction on social media. So I once that happened, I was like okay, I think There’s something here. And I just, I just took the journey down that road and saw what I could get away with. And as it’s progressing and getting growing, there’s like, you know, taking more risks, and I’m on that line should he say that should not say that I like to be there. I think comedy should be there. Especially in a professional setting. I think that’s very funny to say something so shocking. Because a lot of the times I try and say what people want to say, but would never say,

D.J. Paris 20:32
yeah, it makes sense. And so but even in your first video, you ended up just from that alone. This wasn’t a referral. This was just someone saw the video and then and then basically hired you.

Matt Lionetti 20:47
Yeah, so the, the, well, there’s, I did the first video, and then two offers came from that video. So I sold the house in the in the first day. And then it wasn’t till my Freddie Mercury video. So that was August 2019, that I did my first video. And then I was, you know, chugging along for a couple months. And then it wasn’t till February 2020 that I filmed the Freddie Mercury video. And that’s the one that I changed my entire career. So that’s the one that got Ryan, sir, had to reach out. Like he commented and stuff he called me said he loved the videos like shit like that. And that’s when things started to, like, people started to notice and I started getting business from it. And I almost didn’t post that video. What Why is that I just thought I was too dumb. I was just walking around, dressed like Freddie Mercury at Live Aid and someone’s fucking house. I didn’t know

D.J. Paris 21:48
you haven’t, we’ll post a link to that video. But if you haven’t seen it, Matt looks like 1985. You know, Freddie Mercury, doing Live Aid, which, which is an amazing concert in and of itself. But he is absolutely just he’s, he’s nailed that look. And it’s just a brilliant, a brilliant video. So how much? How much time? Do you spend? Like, do you have a certain amount of a goal where you try to put out a certain amount of content every month? Or is it just kind of when inspiration strikes? Or, you know, how do you decide how much time to put in?

Matt Lionetti 22:27
Yeah, so I have a bunch of like, ideas in my notepad on my phone. So I kind of know what I’m doing next. I’m not so into the like, I love Gary Vee. But he’s really into like, post five times a day, six times, I don’t, that’s not for me, that does work for some people. But for me, for what I’m doing, I’m, I’d prefer more quality over quantity. So I only want to release something that I am 100% like happy with. So so that means sometimes I might miss a week of a video if I just don’t think it’s there yet. And it’s not because like, you know, there has to be a fine line there with like, you never posting anything. And then I’m a bit of a perfectionist, but I know when to be like, Okay, this is good. But if it’s just not there, and it’s not up to my standard, then I’ll just take a week off. So I have a lot of friends who bulk record in the real estate space. And I think that’s super beneficial, they’ll do they’ll take one day out of a month, and record, you know, seven to 10 videos, and they have content for the next couple weeks or months with, which is awesome. I don’t do that. And Eric, the broker agent doesn’t do that, because we try and hit on current events as well. So we want to like stay. Because we take a lot from pop culture and stuff like that. And we want to bring that in to the real estate space. So I try and like, stick on what’s relevant, and I want to add that into my videos weekly. So but it really doesn’t take like, as long as people would think like, especially I do a lot of these car rants where I just like talk about shit. And those are some of my best performing videos. Like the one I just posted last week got like 365,000 views or some shit. In my car, it took 15 seconds. Like, that’s it and people don’t realize that like that selfie style is super relatable. It doesn’t have to be a high quality video as long as the the content is there, you could produce a $20,000 video, but if the actual idea and content isn’t right, no one’s gonna care. So yeah, like do whatever talk about anything. And like that’s what people I think fail to understand like people are more interested in you than you might think. And that 15 seconds it took me in my car that day. Actually got a lead from a tube there come in In April from Australia, and they’re using me as a realtor looking for a pretty well priced home do,

D.J. Paris 25:07
we should also mention just for anyone thinking, Well, Matt, maybe you know, it, maybe his clients because he uses comedy, maybe he doesn’t attract, you know, super high net worth clients who would expect their broker to be more professional and, you know, not as silly and trying, you know, not trying to make people laugh. But Matt works in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world, he is in Toronto, which is the equivalent for here in the United States of like, it’s probably it’s more expensive, actually, than San Francisco in New York, or it’s certainly right up there, but it’s usually more expensive. And so this is not a place where, you know, young people are, you know, buying their first condo for $300,000, this is this is a very exclusive place to work in real estate. And Matt is in a sea of other realtors in his area, who are that more professional wearing the suit and projecting that sort of perfect looking image, certainly not incorporating humor into whatever content they might be producing. So that I think, in particular, is also really interesting, that, you know, you have this couple coming from Australia. And of course, you know, I don’t know much about your traditional sort of types of deals that you do, but you work in, in, in a in a space, that is really kind of a high net worth sort of environment. So you are incorporating, you know, sip being silly, and I don’t put there’s no pejorative with silly, silly is awesome. I’m the biggest fan of silly, but but but silly, I think is a good way to, to, to categorize some of your content, but, but that being said, it still attracts business to you. Yeah. Which which is, was that in any way shocking to you, like, you know, I, you know, you put it out there, and then all of a sudden, then it because then you have to turn on the I’m the professional, you know, part of you as well and service that client, but people absolutely want to relate to people. And they, they, I think most people want to be considered funny. And most people I think know, they’re not as funny, as somebody who can really sort of put together you know, a good video, or in your case, a 15 second sort of car thing that maybe also just gets a smile. That’s, that’s really not always easy to do. So I think people respect quality. And you were saying this earlier, where quality not so much on the production side, not that you don’t have great quality, but that’s not really the focus as much as is the content. And so people just want to be entertained by quality, right? So whether it’s a phone that’s been turned around, and someone you know you’re making, in your car going on, you’re not gonna believe what just happened to me or whatever. That’s as long as it’s good quality, 15 seconds. People do relate to that. And they appreciate effort. I’ve also sort of figured that out. And they also appreciate different type of effort. Like, instead of just saying, look at this new home, I just listed or look at this new, you know, rental I just closed or whatever, which is what every other realtor does on social. You’re you’re more trying to entertain people without sort of bragging about, you know, your actual success. And most agents just do the bragging thing, right, it’s here’s, here’s what I just did. And that really separates you from 99% of the other brokers, I’m sure in your area.

Matt Lionetti 28:40
Yeah, it’s, that’s just was never me. I was very sick of seeing the same thing over and over. And, you know, I have some nice things. And I like nice things and I just don’t understand, you know, showing your Starbucks mug, with your Rolex and your Mercedes steering wheel. Like the subtle flex it like I don’t like I just can’t comprehend like, okay, so you leased a car could lease a car. Like I don’t, that’s that doesn’t mean like, I have a couple of nice watches. That doesn’t mean that I have more money than someone without a nice watch. It means that I wanted to be an idiot and buy a nice watch and the other person didn’t. Like I don’t understand the the like the idea behind that. So it’s weird, but yeah, like, Freddie Mercury video got me a $2.5 million buyer last year. They’re both two lawyers. Two fucking lawyers.

D.J. Paris 29:36
Right. Who by the way, another profession that doesn’t play a lot in the humor space.

Matt Lionetti 29:41
Yeah, exactly. So and I drove around in my Kia my fucking keyboard deck, because I don’t give a shit about cars either. And that’s when I think your real success you can sell a buyer $2.5 million house from dressing as Freddie Mercury and driving them around in a 2012 Kia Forte. I must be fucking talented. it as well. I don’t know if it’s just me, but there’s no gate as what I was wearing Ramon shirts, like, you know, there’s no there’s nothing, no hide in there. So like, yeah, it’s never got it. I never got that. And I think people also you said you were saying they, they appreciate quality, but they also appreciate risk, they really do appreciate risk. And I do take risks with the content. And, you know, it’s, I was talking to someone way back. And he was saying, like, I was telling him my what I wanted in the industry, because from I’m very into, like law of attraction and things like that. I journal every night. And I kind of knew this, it’s weird, and it sounds fucking weird. But I kind of have seen, I know this stuff was going to happen, because this is what I said, I wanted to do the whole time, I wanted to be a big, yeah, I want to like create a presence in the industry and a one to like, maybe, maybe drive the needle a little bit in a different direction. And just kind of like, also said, I was going to speak with Ryan Serhan. And like, all this other stuff, and just kind of it’s been unfolding. And I was telling him, like, I want to be a big agent, I don’t want to just be like, a top producer who he sells a lot of homes. And that’s it. I mean, I was like, I want to be like a global agent, like sit like Ryan Serhan, or some of those other people. And he was just saying, like, you know, there’s just in Toronto, he was like, there’s like 60,000 agents here, like, and he was saying, how are you going to stand his laughing? How are you going to stand out? From all that? He said, say you go to a concert. And there’s those 60,000 people there? And you how are you going to stand out and get the business? How are you going to stand out at that show? To get business? And he was laughing? And I said well be the show? And he said, what I said, Well, I’ll be the fucking show. So who who’s everyone’s eyes on? When their other concert? On the show? Yeah, the performers. So I’ll be the show. Yeah, and I’ll stand out, and maybe I won’t, I won’t get all the business because people aren’t gonna like what I do sometimes, and that’s fine. But at least I’ll, I’ll make the noise and get the opportunity to be seen. Because people are trying to please everybody with their content. And they’re just, I can’t tell fucking agents apart anymore. I swear to God, I go to 10 agents pages, and I don’t know who any of them, I couldn’t tell you the difference between them. And that’s, you know, that’s fine if you want to, there’s tons of people who don’t utilize social media, and they still crush it with calls and door knocking, and that’s fine. But I’m saying if you want to start getting business off social media, like you got to take a bit of risk. And that’s not swearing on camera or being funny, but you got to do something a little different. Because you got to create, you got to create the opportunity for yourself to be seen. And the only way to do that is by doing something a little bit different than everyone else.

D.J. Paris 33:04
Yeah, I think it’s I think it’s through value, I think by you know, servicing your audience in whatever way that fits with your authentic self. And in your case, it’s clear that you I think we’re talking about authenticity. And I think when agents stop thinking about how do I please everyone, for example, on social, which is a great sort of example, because we, you know, agents are, of course, they’re afraid to, to say something controversial, because, yeah, they’re worried about how their audience might react, but the audience really just wants to be entertained. And that could be through high quality information. It could be through education, it could be through comedy, music. But that’s, I think, I think that’s what you’re talking about is is finding whatever is authentic to you. And being willing to talk about it, whether it’s real estate related, or maybe not even real estate related, like, you know, whatever passion you might have outside of real estate, that could be your content. And it it may or may not land with your overall you know, the majority of your audience or you’ll get feedback, and you’ll find out if it’s a good idea or not, but people do want, we are so hungry for authentic communication, you know, and we want to know who the person is. We want to know what they’re, what they’re about what they’re into. And I think that’s to me, if all of our listeners and viewers take that away as like be willing to share who you really are, if you are promoting yourself on social if you are putting out content, whether it’s written or video or you know, any type of content. If it’s just the email that the monthly email newsletter that you send out to your to your sphere of influence that you probably didn’t even write, like, no one’s reading that that’s not a bad idea to send something if better than nothing, I guess. Yeah, but like, why not talk about something that you care about in there? Or, you know, I’m sure those probably drive you nuts to just those standard. You know, real estate newsletter emails.

Matt Lionetti 35:10
Yeah, I get so many of those too. It’s like every one I do a deal with. Now I’m on their newsletter, like, yeah, they just find, yeah. Like, I don’t know why I’m on that list. But 100%. Like, bring your passions to the forefront. Like, it’s great to show accolades. But like, when you’re up against three other agents in the listing appointment, so many people hang their hat on their number of sales, and stuff like that. And to me, it’s so odd, because there’s only one person in town who has the best amount of sales, the most sales, if you don’t have the most. You know, if those people really are analytical and care about the number of sales you do, you better have the most fucking sales right, say, I’ve done 20 sales. Well, if the other person comes in has done 30 sales, you’ve now lost everything. Yeah, but yeah, the thing is, if you show that accolade I’ve done 20, you know, I’ve, I’ve sold 20 homes, and it’s me, and you in this listing appointment, then there’s someone else, okay. And these sellers, this, I use this analogy all the time, these sellers love horseback riding, okay, I sell 20 homes, you sell 30 homes, this other person sells five homes, but they fucking love horseback riding. Like, I would say, 95% of the time, the horseback rider is going to relate and get the listing. That’s just what it is.

D.J. Paris 36:36
So this is so what we’re talking about is, is putting out content that’s authentic to you. And whatever your version of horseback riding is, in your own personal life as a realtor, whether it’s something you do outside of real estate or something that you incorporate into your business. Don’t be afraid to share that because you’re absolutely right. And I used to own a horse many, many years ago, I was in a relationship with somebody was a was a horseback rider. And she she anyway, she she did a lot of competitions and things. So so that’s a perfect example. Because we would we would meet people occasionally that was like, oh, yeah, I used to be into horses. And I wasn’t really a horse person. But I would watch her connect with these other even though it was a very tiny part of her life, actually. Yes, it’s your right. People want to connect with people who have passion and interest and maybe even the same passions and interest. And comedy is a great one, because it’s a universally sort of loved experience, right? Most of us, you know, there’s a lot of endorphins that get released. There’s some obvious reasons why we like comedy and stress, relieving all of that. But I just love the fact that you’re willing to sort of be yourself and authentic and silly and it’s not an act right. Like yes, you’re you’re playing characters and you’re writing skits. But But that’s, that’s authentic to who you are. That’s what you’d like to do. And as a result, yeah, even in a Ramones t shirt and you know, a 2012 Kia, you’re closing million million plus dollar deals because people go on orbit that guy, that guy seems fun. And and then of course, you have to make sure that you do a good job, of course, which you do. But that gets that gets people to go, Oh, that guy that guy’s got my interest. Yeah. And yeah, you’re not going to attract maybe the person who goes, Oh, I don’t want somebody who’s that silly, right? Or that? You know, and that’s okay, because they probably weren’t gonna go with you anyway. Right? So the idea of just attracting people who like what you are into, and there’s so much business for everyone, really. So you can be your authentic self. I mean, maybe if you lived in a tiny little rural community that was more conservative, maybe comedy might not be the best idea. But for most of us who live in an area where, you know, it’s somewhat densely populated, like, there’s so much business out there that you could just be yourself. And you know, as long as you’re being responsible, I think and but you’re going to just generate those kinds of clients, and then you don’t have to be as concerned about your image. I bet that’s the biggest freedom that you have is you’re just not worried about looking a certain way. I mean, you look perfectly fine. You’re I hope nobody’s getting this impression that Madison sort of slob. He is not he is absolutely professional, but you don’t really need to make sure that you look a certain way, because that’s not what your audience wants.

Matt Lionetti 39:17
Yeah, no, I mean, and sometimes I like dressing up in a suit and doing all that shit. But like, yeah, I just do whatever I want to do. And it’s just it’s pretty a long time ago, I said, you know, when I’m ready to do like my last when I’m ready to retire from the business. I’m just going to spend my last year dressing and saying everything that I want to say. I just, you know, push that out for like 40 years, so I’m just doing it now instead. So yeah, it’s been Yeah, I just there’s there’s a part that I think you need to have just like not giving a fuck, right and like, I’ll go out and someone will be like, you’re wearing a leather jacket. That’s not professional. Good. I don’t give a fuck Do you know what are we doing here? Then? I don’t Yeah, I like going, when I’m in a listing appointment or doing this, like, I like being in the situation where like, I want your business and I want your listing, but I don’t need it. Right. And that’s where I think things turn for a lot of agents, because at first, I didn’t need it. And I was being so desperate to get it. And now I can go and more relaxed. And be like, listen, I, you know, I want to help you, I think I’m the best person for the job. But I don’t need this. And when I don’t need that need this listening means I’m not going to push you to sell for a price that maybe isn’t the best price for you. Like, you know, we have that luxury and like you can put that spin on it. And I feel like and I feel like every agent should feel this way. I don’t care who I’m up against, in what city? Anywhere, I’ll win the listing. I, I feel like I’ll be able to connect with someone more than other people. And I think everyone should feel that way. I’m not, you know, I think you should have that level of confidence that I can beat anyone in a listing appointment.

D.J. Paris 41:06
I think part of that confidence comes from the willingness to put yourself out there on social in the way that you do, which is like, Hey, guys, this is what’s in my head. This is what I’m putting on on the you know, on the screen, and I hope you’ll like it. But but if you don’t like it, oh, well at least you get a chuckle. But that enables you to say that you guys know who I am, right? They know who they’re who they’re getting, and that it absolutely works. We all want to work with people that we like. And you’re putting out content where people like your content. And so yeah, I’m a huge, huge fan. It’s a great place to wrap up. I would love everybody to do a couple of things. First, I want you to visit Matt’s website, which is Matt lionetti.com. link in the notes. Also, I want you to subscribe to the overcast podcast. Everyone’s a fan of the broke agent. So just subscribe it is it is their podcast Mexico’s and they do all sorts of fun content together as well that they put out on social. But yeah, check out that podcast via subscriber. And then of course, we would love for everyone out there to help us continue to grow as well. There’s two ways you can do that one by telling one other agent about our show, keeping it real. So think of one other agent that you know that could benefit from hearing from producers like Matt, who are really doing unique things that are super cool. And those are the kinds of people we interview on our show, tell them about the show, send them over to our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done, I think we have 300 and like 40 episodes or so now. So all of our episodes are there. Or if they’re a podcast person, just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real, hit the subscribe button. And one last thing please leave us a review. Whatever podcast app or distribution system you might be listening to us through or watching us. Whether it’s YouTube, or you know, Apple podcast, Google Play Spotify, Stitcher, whatever, Pandora, let us know what you think of the show that helps us continue to improve. So Matt, on behalf of all of our audience, thank you so much for being on our show. It was this was great. I love authentic people that take risk. That is you. You’re obviously having tremendous success being yourself, which in this industry is not as common as as probably a lot of people would think so I appreciate that. I appreciate the courage that you have to do that. And obviously it’s working so even better. So thank you on behalf of our audience for taking time out of your data to be on the show. And then on behalf of Matt myself, I want to thank our audience for sticking with us throughout this entire show. Please subscribe to Matt’s podcast over over ask again. It’s in the notes and let them know what you think visit his website too. He’s got a great website that really gives you some more insight into who he is. And it is a non traditional realtor website, which I love in the best possible compliment I could give. Is that Is it a non traditional realtor website. It’s awesome. So take a look at it. It’s in the show notes. Matt, thank you so much for being on the show.

Matt Lionetti 44:05
Thanks so much for having me. I

D.J. Paris 44:06
loved it. All right, man. Well, thanks, guys. We’ll see everybody on the next episode.

Mark Castley, the COO of LuxuryProperty.com in Dubai goes back to the beginning of his journey in the real estate. Mark discusses the obstacles faced by top producers when they decide to start a team. Next, Mark describes how he got involved in the real estate luxury market and outlines what it’s like to work in one of the most super-rich markets in the World. Last, Mark points out what makes them stand out from other companies in the same market and the importance of building the community feeling inside the team.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Mark Castley can be reached at [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by RealGeeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris I am your guide and host through the show and in just a moment we’re going to be speaking with luxury International Property realtor Mark Castlereagh. Before we get to mark a couple of quick announcements first, we rarely ever ask our audience for anything except telling a friend so please continue to tell friends about our show. But we are going to ask for one other thing just Well, probably not just this ones. But today it for sure. Which is to leave us a review on whatever system you might be listening to this episode on whether it’s Apple podcast, formerly iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora, etc. Wherever you’re listening to us, please let us know what you think about the show that helps with our visibility, and also helps give us feedback about what you like and what we can do to improve. So please keep telling friends about us. And take three, three seconds, leave us a review, let us know what you like about the show. We really, really appreciate it. As always, thank you for continuing to support us and allow us to grow and help us get to the place we have now are worth 300 and almost 50 episodes, I think we’re been doing this five or six years. It’s all because of you guys. So really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you. And now on to our interview with Mark Castley.

Okay, today on the show, we have Mark Cassidy from the luxury property.com. Now Mark, Mark Castle has over 15 years of international real estate experience. He’s covered the United States, Canada, the Middle East, Asia and Europe, where he has coached and mentored top 1% agents. Mark is now the Chief Operating Officer of luxury property.com, he actually works on both the Dubai business and the digital side of the business, which has huge growth plans into the United States for 2022. I’d like everybody if you haven’t ever visited luxury property.com If you’re driving, pull over or wait. But if you aren’t driving, check it out. It is an amazing portfolio of High and High Net Worth sort of real estate. And Mark is sort of in charge of of a lot of the Dubai, the middle east part of it. So we’re really excited. And then all the years we’ve been doing the show, we haven’t really ever talked about international real estate. And our audience is always asking about it. How does it work? What does it entail? You know, if I have clients that are interested in sort of exploring those areas, what do I do? And Mark is here to talk about it. So Mark, welcome to the show.

Mark Castley 4:03
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Such a lovely intro. I like that.

D.J. Paris 4:08
I will thank you. Well, Mark has has if you’ve noticed, I’m sure Mark has a lovely British accent. And Mark is from Liverpool. And I am one of the biggest Beatles fans that I know. So I got very excited when Mark told me he was from Liverpool. But Mark has actually lived all over the world. And he’s lived the United States. He’s He’s lived, he’s moved around in Asia, the Middle East. So I would love mark to actually go all the way back to the beginning of your journey into real estate and sort of get us up to where we are today. Just because I think your story is particularly fascinating. But tell us a little bit about why real estate and how you got how you got involved.

Mark Castley 4:49
It Yeah, uh, well, it’s funny because it’s a it’s a question people often say to me is, you know, was this was this what you wanted at school and, and, and it wasn’t, you know, when I was At school, I thought I was the best football soccer player. And wasn’t. But I was confident this was me, you know, going to be a professional mom used to say to me did not Well, maybe you won’t be you know, you’ve got to

D.J. Paris 5:15
have another plan.

Mark Castley 5:17
And I was like, No, I don’t need an electronic claim about that. It wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t a right fit for a career in soccer. Dad said to me, Well, look, you’ve got a job. And I was like, really haven’t planned ahead for this. So what do I do? And he took me to a local estate agents, you know, a real estate company on the high street. And I was 16. I think at the time 70, maybe 70, more probably 60, open the door. And I remember the guy’s name was Chris. He said this, you know, he needs a job. And you’re like, well, we’re not recruiting. And, you know, he’s clearly not of the age to be working well.

D.J. Paris 5:57
We don’t need a footballer in the office.

Mark Castley 6:01
Why are you in my shop, and he’s like, Just give him a job, any job. And they gave me the tea boy job, which is, as it sounds, I was making tea in bringing biscuits. And it was, you know, the salary on it was 60 pounds a week, which is about $80 a week. And had to pay keep, and it was like, Why is this not a job? You know, that’s not real. But this is the you know, the expectation felt reality wasn’t observable. The guy who owned the company here was a franchise of a national brand in the UK. And he owned quite a bit of property. And he’s quite well being and he was, you know, he told me quite a lot. And he brought me open. And let me go into viewings. And what I realized really quick was real estate couldn’t be really easy. Because I didn’t have any outside influence, there was no market, you should do this market, you should do that. I was a door one from a t porur to a door open. And I figured out when I opened some doors, and I said certain things or have aware that something a certain way, I would do a deal. And I worked my way open with my oppa. And all of a sudden I was head of property management from tea boy and I was like, What is going on? Wow, this is great. And then from there, you know, my crew progressed into buying and selling properties. I think a lot of realtors ventured down this path of flipping homes. And I did really well. I’ve built up a deposit ended up doing we call it in the UK. They want them to get worse. So with I don’t know how I forget what it’s called in the US, but basically, by property undervalue decent work, too. And all of that was done on an option agreement as making great money. And then all of a sudden the market crashed. I said to the missus issues, only my Dell friend at the time, I said, Oh, no. What did we do? You know, the markets crashed. You know what next? So I looked at Peabody, and that was that was actually my first international stock was over into Dubai came over fresh off the boat. And the goal was to just make as much money as possible, but just had the financial crisis. It was 2000. And the 2009, early 2010 share market was like it was a buyers market. Right. So I think it’s the only market is tough, really is the plateau market. If it’s a seller’s market, that’s okay. If it’s a buyers market, that’s okay, too. You just got to adjust your game plan and your profit. Yeah, that’s it. So this was a buyers market. So we were pretty aggressive in terms of offering loan getting deals done, and there’s lots of business happening in the market picked up. And when we found out, you know, quite a long story short, I found out I was having the little one, she’s six now, when we found out about here we were like, right, we probably need to stop what we’re doing in Dubai, which is Rolex Range Rover, business class here, do this, do this, but we’ve got a little person on the way let’s rein all of that in as fast as possible, moved over to the US and I was coaching. So had quite a lot of the top 1% in Florida. And it was just incredible. We lived in in Davenport, a couple of minutes outside of Disney and we have a little tail so maybe they were just good fun. For the goal was you know, I was tasked to help real estate agents go from being a real estate agent into a real estate team. Yeah, so that’s a common problem, isn’t it with the top 1% is it’s not you know, growth, and it’s very much dependent on them doing activities

D.J. Paris 9:59
scale. feeling is very difficult when you get to a certain number of personal deals. And then you’re basically back to trading hours for dollars and trying to figure out, how do we get to that next level. And usually it involves building a team. But then then the skill set changes, right? Like now you’re managing and building a team versus just doing your own personal production. And that becomes a whole learning curve in and of itself.

Mark Castley 10:23
And that’s the thing, right? So what I find is, teachers here are teachers, to anybody that will listen to me, because I genuinely think this is the most important thing is you have to have a business model that closes strangers. And that’s if you can focus on closing people into commission checks that you’ve never met before, and it wasn’t a referral, then you have a duplicatable business model. And we can scale that. The problem is if you’ve got a network at your soccer club, or tennis club, or whatever that might be your country club. It’s hard to duplicate though, on a 10x scale, with 10 people who can’t enter that market,

D.J. Paris 11:03
right? Because you can’t just throw money at that situation, or what you can do is you have to find other people and basically duplicate yourself. But they have to build those relate. Yeah, if you’re working solely by sphere of influence, you can build a wonderful business, but it’s not really a scalable business, right? Yeah, it’s finite,

Mark Castley 11:23
you know, because there’s only so much you can do. And then the rest is help. So you bring help in and, and this was something that I realized, so a lot of the a lot of the US and Canada bring in isa services from the Philippines. So I was like, Okay, well, if this is the common trend, and we’re going to bring an ISA and from Manila, I will go. So I went to Manila, and I was training them for a couple of weeks. And it was really interesting, you know, to figure out the objections of the got that, you know, the the concerns they had around the positions and really understand everything about them. And that’s something that made me realize when I went back to the US, and I’m talking about these amazing people in the Philippines who were just so much better than me on the phone, you know, and, and that’s the goal, you’re always gonna try and bring better people in. But what was happening is people the top 1% got to that level where the credit card was able to be run for anything they wanted. That wasn’t the right move in the most part. Because if you want to do a duplicatable, Stranger business, and you’ve never made a cold call to a buyer before, you can’t teach someone how to do it. Right? You don’t. That’s the that was the problem. So I went to Manila figured this out. And it was super interesting. The biggest problem in Manila is Wi Fi could go sour.

D.J. Paris 12:47
I know this because we have help at our company, via virtual assistants in the Philippines. We have seven of them who live all all throughout the Philippines. And you’re right, we’re I mean, they’re just they’re exposed to tremendous weather. I mean, I think I think they’re considered the most vulnerable nation in the world for weather for extreme weather. So their Wi Fi, their electricity. It goes, yeah, it cycles. Yeah.

Mark Castley 13:14
And that was, that was something that was interesting, because it made me realize, I’m a forever learning of revenue, teaching ourselves and being told by others, that to be successful, you have to understand every single part of your business before you can, you can educate on it. Because it’s it’s not valid education otherwise. So you pick the phone up and make 50 calls a day for the next couple of weeks, you’re probably going to understand that a little bit better, and be able to assist. And that was really interesting, you know, in the coaching, I love coaching. You know, I say this now, my where I am now, this is my forever home. And I say that to everybody, because I absolutely, I think I have the best job on the planet. And, you know, it’s it’s one of them where I’m trying to bring the best possible people in. And I’m always trying to bring people in who are better than me. And I think I’m the best in the world at what I do. And I’m trying to find better than me and successfully over the past couple of weeks TV. I’ve brought people into our business who would just incredible, but I’ve had to go through that process, right, you know, to see what makes sense. When they come to me and asked me a question mark, what do I do? And you don’t know the answer. That’s when that’s when you’re on a rapid decline. So yes, it was really important to go through that process. And that was as good because we got to travel a lot.

D.J. Paris 14:44
I imagine. But you know, I want to just go back to something you’ve said because we talked to so many top producers on the show who work exclusively by referral through their sphere of influence. And you’re right at some point, they just hit a ceiling of of, there’s only a certain amount of transactions they can physically do in a given year. And it creates, as you said, a finite, you know, sort of growth potential or certainly a some sort of ceiling. And they then have to either find a partner, who maybe has a similar sort of business model, or maybe they start divvying up response that bringing on a team and divvying up responsibilities, and that frees up some more time for them to work their sphere more, but what we don’t talk about a lot, and there certainly are agents I’ve interviewed who do talk about it, but a lot of people don’t talk about it is this idea of adding in, you know, working on internet leads, working on on, you know, a different sort of the strangers, you know, trying to convert strangers, whether it’s an internet lead, or through some other method, or you just meet somebody out somewhere. But trying to convert those into into clients, a lot of agents have never really been taught that strategy. And they don’t realize that’s something that can be taught, like, as you were saying, to isas can learn those skills, because it’s a very sort of specific set of skills that’s teachable, it’s repeatable, and it’s something that you can invest in, and, and use to scale your business. So I just wanted to make that point for anyone that that didn’t quite catch that, that Mark was was saying, you know, that is a way it may be whether you think it’s a good idea or not depends on your own personality, and, but going through that process could really add a nice stream of revenue. And it’s something you don’t really have to do, you can hire people to assist, you can hire lead providers, you can hire isas to take those calls as qualified people and get them on the schedule. And that’s something that can sort of exist independently of an individual agent’s time and energy.

Mark Castley 16:48
Yes, it’s such a powerful growth tool. You know, we see conversion rates across the world with different people I speak to from 0.2%, right the way up to 12%. And so much higher, obviously, with referrals. So what you have to do is, I mean, I hate this profile, everybody at this profile myself, my wife, and everybody I come into contact with just to better understand how to communicate with people. And, you know, I think you’ve just got to put yourself in a position where you do something that matches your personality profile, if you’re a high day, just don’t advertise on Facebook, right? His car, you’re not going to be able to handle the hundreds of leads that you get through Facebook, if you’re right. It’s just, it’s stressful, you know, and there’s different, I mean, that’s an exaggeration, but you get it right, there’s got to be something that matches your personality profile and matches your bank balance, and then gives you the return on your investment. You know, we we want to be looking at a 10x on any investments. For every $1,000 you spend, you just have to be getting 10 bucks. And if you if you’ve got that investment, it’s not so it’s not so bad to provide in the time spent isn’t isn’t crazy.

D.J. Paris 18:08
Yeah, it’s really, really important, this idea of thinking about return on investment, it’s, it’s very easy, I think, as a real estate professional, or for our listeners to think exclusively about their sphere. And maybe that’s where the majority of your thoughts should go. Because those are people that are most likely to already know like, and trust you to use you in a transaction. And of course, that makes sense, deepen those relationships, keep keep those those people close, as close as you can. But then it’s like, okay, well, if that’s what I’m best at, or maybe I’m not great on the phone, I’m not great at you know, cold door knocking, which, you know, probably the day of COVID doesn’t really know exist, but but just this idea of reaching out to strangers, maybe that’s just not something I’m good at. So my me personally, I’m not a real estate producer myself, because I do things like this, but I wouldn’t be good at that I’m good at deepening my relationships. So what I would consider doing is just like we have for our isa team here at our company, which they actually helped me recruit agents, because I don’t want to pick up the phone and make cold calls to other agents and say, Hey, come over and join our company, we’d love to have you but those calls are really powerful. And so I have a team of people doing that for me, and they get lots and lots of appointments. So there are ways that that you know these outside and we live in this worldwide gig economy now and you just have the ability to hire people from for example the Philippines from other places in the world that would be thrilled to have this job. And you know, there’s just it’s so great because my cold callers they make hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of cold calls a week for me to realtors saying hey, if you’re ever thinking about joining another firm we’d love to chat and it’s not it’s it’s it’s that’s what they do. And it works out quite well for us. If I had to do it, I would have phone hesitation I wouldn’t want to do just I just wouldn’t want to make 200 dials a day, which is what I used to do 20 years ago in a different industry. And I sort of know, that’s not really for me, but it needs to be part of my business. So I have other people assisting and then they, they set it up for me. And then hopefully I close it. So I’m so glad you mentioned that we don’t talk about that enough on the show. But I want to talk about luxury property as well. because.com Because this is such a cool, cool company. The website is amazing. Tell us how did you get to luxury property

Mark Castley 20:30
by fate really, really was you know, when the stars align, and they really did align for this position. I had quite a lot of coaching clients still in the US. When we came to Dubai, me the missus in the little one, we were to escape the UK because it was cold, and COVID. And nobody could do anything. So it gets political party by as fast as possible. And I was dealing with my coaching clients in the UK, and I really enjoyed them. And then by chance, somebody that I introduced to real estate about 12 years ago when I was first here, reached out and was like, hey, look, you know, look at what we’re doing. What you posted a comment really good. He’s still an agent here do extremely well. He’s one of the top agents in the country. So I was like, Okay, I met the C CEO, Jason who’s genuinely the he’s just the best, his vision and everything. He’s he’s the best. And we met him you know, when you get on with somebody and it’s like instant. I want to work with you no matter what it takes, because where you want to go. And it was one of them relationships where he I think he could see incredible value in what I brought to the table. So I said, look, let’s let’s do this. So I came in, took over the sales team. And we started making incredible headway in the luxury space. So we play in a in a whole nother realm and quite a lot of other brokerages in the world to be honest. And the reason we are able to do that is we generate leads at incredible price brackets, just because of our URL. It’s It’s outrageous, you know, luxury property law calm, you expect to see luxury property when you go on there. And then when you do, you’re like this is amazing. And then if you actually want to buy it, you have that level of trust, because our brand is so powerful, you come through become a lead, and we definitely have options for you. So it’s a real nice match, that not a lot of others can compete in that space, because they’re just traditional brokerages within the region that don’t have that brand awareness, though. It’s just outrageous. You know,

D.J. Paris 22:45
it is interesting, because my initial thought would be high net worth individuals. And Oracle’s made me call the mega high net worth individuals are sort of the space you play in those, you know, the prevailing sort of common sense, or I’ll just say my own common sense, which is absolutely I guess wrong. But my my, my thought would have been as a marketer, oh, those people don’t go on the web to look at properties to the same extent that somebody who’s not in that, in that, that sort of, you know, tax bracket might. And you know, what’s so cool is of course they do they do just like anybody else. And they need a place to go and look for for these types of properties throughout the world. And luxury property.com has that. And it is amazing that you actually generate leads through that because again, you think, well, someone’s not going to fill out a lead forum who’s, you know, their net worth is, you know, three or $400 million? No, apparently that that’s exactly how it works. Because they’re human beings just like anyone else, they want us find property that appeals to them. Especially I imagine your average client when they purchase for example, in Dubai, this is likely not their first home, I’m guessing this is they have multiple multiple properties. Do you have any sort of guests on on what the average person like the number of, of homes they may have throughout the world? It’s certainly got to be more than a few, I’m guessing.

Mark Castley 24:09
Yeah, it’s a lot. I mean, just to dial back into the lead gen side of it, which is so funny, because I had the exact same outlook as you should. My business model in real estate was, if you advertise on a real estate portal, you’re going to pay a lot more for your lead, but it’s going to be a lead who wants to buy some real estate so it’s worthwhile. And that’s what we did. And that’s what Dubai is built on two major portals here. You make loads of money from them. It’s great, but it costs a lot of money. I was here. I was like, No way. I mean, I’m talking like senior politicians. But we’ve had just insane people come through our CRM and lots

D.J. Paris 24:51
of nondisclosure agreements that probably get signed,

Mark Castley 24:55
trying to not get in trouble.

D.J. Paris 24:58
And you think DLP, Ebola.

Mark Castley 25:01
So you see them come through and you’re like, really that person. And then you, you know, when the guys call and they’re like, yeah, that’s, that’s who that was. And they’ll take the call. And sometimes it’s a PA or you know, it’s not always a bullet transaction is that we do it. And it really is like, it’s absolutely insane. To go back to the question about how many homes, what we find is, and this is more of a coaching element. So the model is, in any real estate across the planet, you need to be face to face with your clients to do business. And there’s just no other way to do it. So if you if you try and do business any other way, you probably won’t be as successful as if you’re face to face. And what we found is, because it’s such a high volume area, you might speak to one guy, if it gives you one property over the phone, and maybe you sell it, maybe you rent it, whatever happens if you get face to face with them. It’s very rare, you don’t get their full portfolio from them. And it’s interesting. Yeah, and it’s very rare that less than 10. Because the people that you deal with hear us all it’s a it’s a melting pot of the world’s wealthy. So you meet people love. So I’m from Super working class parts of the world where everybody where I’m from, is from where I’m from, and nobody

D.J. Paris 26:30
moves to Liverpool. They’re from Liverpool.

Mark Castley 26:34
I’m probably the only guy to ever escape me and the Beatles. That was it. And, you know, so when you get here, and you meet these people from all over the world with incredible wealth, what you find is they all successful investing in real estate on a regular basis, making incredible profits. So it’s, it makes sense to continue to put money in but we’re very tax efficient here. Because there’s no tax. So which is great. So it makes sense to keep buying property. And then you find this, people will send you a spreadsheet and say, here’s what I have. And it may be 40 properties 50 properties, sometimes it might be six, but it’s very rarely one or two. Because once you’ve been exposed to Dubai and being successful here, you people continue to buy because it’s mostly cash purchases. Sure. Finance is super cheap here anyway, you know, we we follow a US model. So the finance in the US is super cheap at the moment. So people can buy finance, but it’s it’s pretty cash rich part of the world. And yeah, we finally, you know, we’ve got lots of crypto guys in this space of the minute, you know, the, the, probably the seven or $8 million in a both. We’ve got lots of volume in the crypto guys. They’re coming in, liquidate some crypto buying luxury assets, which is you know, which is fantastic. And that part is we cover a million dollars, right up to about three or $400 million. That’s like our price bracket. Yeah. And what we’ve found is, right in the middle of that is where the where the volume is, you know, the number of leads we get on a daily basis. $25 million in both is triple digits.

D.J. Paris 28:28
Right every day. I mean, that’s incredible.

Mark Castley 28:32
Yeah. Wow. And then the thing is, when you’ve got and this is I tell I tell my guys this all the time. Dubai in real estate model is not exclusive in the most part. So the US model is everything’s exclusive exclusive. Yeah, you will exclusive and very most for 99% of the time you take the listing that you always think that it’s all here, it’s you can have those things if you want no problem. So you know, stock is king if you’ve got good stock price correctly with great images, great description, video drone, and you’re driving traffic to it. There’s there’s buyers out there at all price points.

D.J. Paris 29:19
What’s it like to to work with somebody in that mega High Net Worth space? Meaning how often is it a team of people that you now have to sort of win over not just the principal person, the the, you know, the high net worth individual, but then also maybe a surrounding team of advisors of accountants of attorneys, maybe even a publicist? Does that come up a lot where you’re dealing with with now a group of people who support that person? You know, I imagine in those types of clients, the there are teams already in place and you get added to the team.

Mark Castley 29:57
Yeah, that’s right. So there’s The hierarchy to work through what the truth is if it’s ever, ever not an investment property. So the second, third, fourth home, this holiday home was a weekend home, because there’s people in Dubai, who buy weekend property, or live somewhere and buy some somewhere for the weekend. And that might only be 10 minutes away, but a weekend property. The truth is, and it’s the same in the US as the same everywhere in the world. That decision maker is the wife every time.

D.J. Paris 30:32
So she’s the one going over.

Mark Castley 30:35
So we’ve had we’ve had full teams come to market, and there’s a due diligence process as a legal team reviewing contracts. We’ve had press people, we’ve had security teams for top level politicians who are checking the access with the elevators and the escape doors and all this type of stuff. Sure, then, if she doesn’t like it, no, get on board. And that’s that’s it, it’s the same every time.

D.J. Paris 31:02
So so it’s it’s a meet the Meet the spouse as quickly as possible and try to win win over their, their their approval, and trust, because they’re the ones that are going to pull the trigger. That’s, that just makes your right it makes perfect sense. Of course it does. It’s the same with the condo I just bought with my girl, my girlfriend who were not married, we hopefully will be. But even though it was my my purchase, I really still had to have a very serious conversation because I said, this is where we’re going to be living. What do we think? Which was really what do you think? Are you ready to sign off on this? And I had to get her I had to get her sign off? Because I know from from previous, his, you know, mistakes I’ve made that that if the partner doesn’t sign off on it, yeah, you’re in, you’re in for some trouble as the as the spouse. That makes perfect sense.

Mark Castley 31:54
And it’s funny, because, you know, when I moved to the US, what people used to say to me is the number one question I would get is, Mark, can you teach me how to sell in the million dollar plus price bracket? And often I would say you already are, it’s literally you’re doing the same thing. There’s nothing different at all, it’s the same process, the people are the same, this is nothing different. You I would prefer the $10 million dollar price bracket or the 500 Grand because the 1 million is there’s a lot of ego there. Sure. And I don’t mean this negative because I love everybody. However, there’s a lot of ego around that million dollar price bracket, and depending on your location may be slightly different. But when you then go into the ultra high net worth levels, these guys are the easiest people to deal with, you know, the super chilled about decision making, and there’s no there’s no stress around the low offer. I mean, I seen a property in the US today, you probably seen it was dropped $30 million, or went from 110 to 80 million. anybody doing anything like that it’s not that stressed over losing $30 million on real estate. So it’s actually a much easier conversation. The million dollar price point brings egos and it’s a bit of drama. And then the sub 750 grand price point is I think is the three because you do that small, you know, I don’t broke up because I think it’s a conflict of interest of I do. Because I take out a lead. So you know, you don’t want to be in a position where I get

D.J. Paris 33:39
the boss is taking all the leads.

Mark Castley 33:42
Right? So I don’t do it. But if I did, I don’t think I’d work with sellers and I still think I’d probably sit at the half a million dollar price point because that’s the type of people that I like to deal with. You know, so and you mentioned this before, but you’ve got to find the people that you really want to work with. So you find the lead generation system that works for you find your niche in the market, that should be duplicatable, but for me, it’s like you know first time homebuyers mover OPERS little kid that’s like, that’s who I am. You know, I’ve got a little kid you know, so that so it’s easy to talk to, it’s easy to relate to. And they were the easiest people I thought to deal with. And you play at that the million dollar price point is too funny place to tender. Yeah. Because it’s

D.J. Paris 34:33
it’s probably people who have earned their way up to a million dollars and they are very, you know, there’s a lot of fear about keeping it and moving it up when you play in the ultra high net worth space. As you said, there’s just less fear there’s, there’s more teams in place. They they’re people that you know, can maybe they’ve had generations of wealth so it’s really not something that concerns them on. On it. You know, a level of one transaction isn’t going to make or break them. So that makes perfect sense. But you’re right. Like, once you get to that million space, you again, you might have people who are easy and wonderful, but you also might have people that just got their way there. And I’ve been moving up. And now all of a sudden, you know, I have I have family members like that, that, that have the few that have just incredible estates, but not in the ultra high net worth space, these are people that have started from nothing and move their way up. And, and they’re cash poor, just like the rest of us, or, you know, their house poor, I guess you should say, and they’re stressed because they have to work, they have to keep their mortgage going, they have to, you know, pay the taxes, which might be, you know, $100,000 a year. And so, so these are, so you’re right, I totally understand that. With these family members, I used to talk to them and say, Wow, your life is when I was younger, so wonderful. They go, Oh, no, I’m as stressed out as anyone who, you know, it’s they don’t live month to month necessarily, but there’s a lot of fear of, if I lose my job, this all goes away. That’s obviously a different type of fear that somebody in the high net worth space as. But I guess on the flip side, you then also have to make sure the team is on board with they have a team with with that particular investment or purchase. And I imagine things fall apart sometimes because of that

Mark Castley 36:18
all the time. And I think you know, that’s when the stress really comes in on the broker level sharknose give me no control over that. Yeah. And if you’re in a position where you have a deal to go through, and you will, you’ll make $100,000 $200,000 from it, and some cases, four or $500,000 commissions on transaction, which doesn’t go through. You know, it’s like we, our training system, and within our company is really robust. So we can bring non experienced younger brokers through the ranks and have them top producers really quick. But for a 24 year old kid fresh off the plane, who’s older, you know, maybe making $100,000. And then they’re not. It’s an emotional roller coaster,

D.J. Paris 37:05
for sure.

Mark Castley 37:07
It really interesting.

D.J. Paris 37:08
Well, and there must be tremendous competition in Dubai as well, on the on the broker side. I mean, there has to be because, of course, the the sort of amount of commissions that are at stake. So you have tremendous competition, I’m sure. What do you think it is that luxury property, again, also, aside from having an amazing ly user friendly website with with really cool properties to peruse. But what is it that you think your team does differently than some of the other shops out there that are trying to capture that same business in your area?

Mark Castley 37:39
So we do a lot of ongoing personal development. And that comes from not not a lot of other companies have somebody in post with experience across the world who can handle objections? Because if you think you know, let’s say you’re a British guy, who moved from the UK to Dubai, and set up a real estate company, and you do really well not great, but to develop your agents and, and the types of clients that we get in Dubai, a multinational, so we do business all over the world, coming to Dubai. So the fact that I’ve been able to travel across the world, the fact that the organizations traveled across the world, and quite a lot of our brokers have allowed us to put ourselves in a position where we don’t lose deals because of lack of education. And in the most part deals, that’s why they fall off, right? Sure. You must have seen so many times buyer wants the property seller wants to sell agent messes the deal up deal doesn’t happen. It’s insane, right? So we don’t have that problem with the company because we have daily personal development. So we just launched something called the 5am. Club. Now, I live out on the you know, the Palm Island, as you’ve seen, it’s called Beautiful. Yes. So that’s I live out there and 5am. Every Monday, the whole office is invited to my house, we all get changed. We go on a run, we do some exercise, we get breakfast, and then we have a mastermind. Now. Let’s go it takes so many boxes. It’s great for retention. It’s great for team morale, but the truth is what the what happens there is anybody who’s willing to give me a 5am start and come and run with me. They deserve to mastermind with the best in the business. And what you find is you get the brand new rental agents who are hungry, and we’ve got the number one two and three brokers in Dubai work in this office. So if you can have breakfast with them every Monday and pick their brain and that’s the type of thing we do that others don’t. We also do something really cool. We did it today called deal clinic, where I bring as anybody’s welcome in the office over 65 brokers. It’s an office based job so you know people come in normally 2530 in the room. What I say is Okay, pick a deal. So somebody will We’ll be working on a deal. And I’ll write it out on the board. And we’ll say, Okay, tell me about the buyer. Tell me about the seller, what’s the dynamics of the deal? Are over the line yet? But instead of me just answering the questions, everybody in the room does, what? Why don’t you do this, or I remember I said this one time. And what that does is built community within the team, which is, which is amazing. But also it gives peer information, this guy is really good. So there’s a referral to pass out a huge issue. And then all of a sudden, we do multiple transactions that I genuinely don’t believe would have happened if we didn’t have this ongoing personal development. And what that ultimately result in is great service for a client. So if somebody comes through whether they’re ultra high net worth or not, they have to get the best possible service from us. And if we’ve got all of this going on in the background to help, they should, you know, they should look at this world class service from us, because that’s what we’re set up to do. And all the little details we do in the background really point towards the success of the agents.

D.J. Paris 41:10
And it’s probably I’m guessing, no different than most of the brokerages here locally in Chicago, at least that I’m familiar with, which are lovely firms, there’s lots of great firms with wonderful resources and great technology and great brands. But that idea of ongoing actual skill development, I won’t even call it Training, because training is too generic and training. Everybody says they do training, but offering skill development. And like just this idea of once a week we get in a room and we talk about our deals, if nothing else, and somebody says Well, here’s the sticking point with this one transaction, here’s where I’m stuck, I’m not sure where to go. At the very least you’re going to get as you said, you’re maybe find a referral partner. But even if not, if you don’t find that you’re gonna get options, because people are gonna say, well try it like you said, Try this, try that. And if nothing else, it just builds more more quivers in their in their in are more arrows in their quiver. Sorry. But again, just skill development is something that I have found to be at most firms severely lacking here, here in our local area, not to here to criticize any firms, because there’s lots of great ones, but it is shocking how rare it is. And then how for the firms that do offer it. A lot of agents don’t participate in it. And it seems to me like boys skill development is, well, you know, you were on your way to being a professional football player. I mean, you know, discipline and skill development is everything.

Mark Castley 42:37
It’s everything. And the thing is, and this the harsh truth, is the only reason that other companies don’t do it. And I never say anything bad about any company. And of course, everything is everybody wants their own business separately, but the only reason you don’t do skill development is if you can’t, right, exactly. And that’s it right you know, so it’s not a negative, really, it’s a different business model, they

D.J. Paris 43:00
don’t have the staff in place to do it. Or

Mark Castley 43:02
that’s probably the reason why because if you have a business, the best way to make money is have skilled employees. So if you’ve got a real estate company, and you’ve got skilled real estate agents, everybody makes more money. So if you have the ability to empower your agents with new skills every week, you would tell me why. There’s no better feeling. And you’ll you’ll back me on this, I’m sure. Then if somebody offered me $100,000 cash, or the ability to see one of my agents make $100,000, because of me helping them I would I would take the agents every time, every single day of the week, I would say I want them, I want them to make money because of something I’ve helped them with Beats 100 grand every day of the week. And when people come in to me and say, Mark, what do I do? And I say, here’s what we’re going to do. And then I bring the top performing agents in Dubai and say, What do you think we should do? And then I bring the CEO in, and he says something, and then we bring everybody else in. And all of a sudden this person who had no access to education was good. Some of the top people on the planet held the number the rental contract. It’s just outrageous. And the difference, right is that that feeling is just cannot beat it. When somebody says thank you. I made money because of you. Yeah, you win.

D.J. Paris 44:30
What’s it’s that expression? Similar? Not not a perfect corollary to this expression. But But I think it makes sense where you say like a rising tide raises all ships, right. So this idea that everyone in the firm comes together to help the agent, maybe it doesn’t directly benefit that top producer to help you know the new guy, but it really does because if that little if that new guy can get some deals close that helps the brand and that’s going to help the top producer all of it all that works together and there’s again there’s There’s a lot of joy in helping somebody and seeing them be successful. And it’s great that you foster that sort of environment where it’s not so much about competition, because you were sort of saying this earlier, when you said other other businesses, other real estate brokerages in your area, like, hey, there’s room for everybody. There’s room. Yeah. Like, there

Mark Castley 45:19
really is. The space for everyone is now that’s the thing, seven and a half 1000 Real estate agents in Dubai, it’s a pretty small place in comparison to the actual available units that are here. But there’s still space for us all. And and that’s, that’s the thing, isn’t it, you know, you just got to make sure you take your piece of the pie. And you’ve got to make sure that piece of the pie is big enough for it to be worthwhile. And that’s it right, you know, that this space forever.

D.J. Paris 45:47
So I love in this conversation, you’ve done a few things. Number one, you’ve reiterated the importance of coaching, or skill development, which I mean, if we think about, you know, you You’re, you’re a former athlete, and obviously still a very fit person, you know, the importance of coaching, right? Every athlete almost on the planet has a coach, whether they’re amateur or professional, you know, certainly the professionals all have coaches. And then we also talked about this myth of that you really busted or, you know, sort of really got me my mind is almost a little scrambled. But this idea that high net worth people are in some ways, just like the rest of us, they’re going on websites or looking at properties they’re submitting requests to to see a property or to learn more about it. That blows that blows my mind. But of course, that makes perfect sense. You know, they’re human beings, just like the rest of us, they have their internet on their phone, just like the rest of us. So they’re just playing. They’re not going to Zillow, because Zillow doesn’t really, I mean, sometimes they might be, but that really is catering to their particular needs. And then this idea of also treating your business like a business and finding other ways to, as you were saying, like to 10x. You know, we hear about that a lot. And there’s a lot of gurus out there talking about scaling and how to get 10x or 100x. And it’s like, well, if you’re if you’re trading hours for dollars, which is really what most Realtors even though that’s not exactly the job, but at some point, you do sort of just hit, I’ve only got so many hours in the day to stay in touch with my sphere to meet new people. And then you can say, Okay, well, that part I can’t really duplicate, maybe that’s just, it’s too, it’s too intimate, I have to keep those relationships. And now I can add, you know, this other thing where maybe I’m buying leads from a lead provider, or maybe I’m generating them through through my own website, like luxury property.com, which again, it’s just blowing my mind that you guys get that kind of that kind of client that visits the site and also raises their hand to say I want to learn more, I just assume people don’t play in that space. Of course they do. And so I want everybody to check out luxury property.com Because not only is it a great search engine for properties in that whole ultra high net worth space. But notice how its laid out what I particularly love, and just from a user experience perfect perspective. I love this because all it has on the what we call above the fold, which means when you visit a website, and you just see what you see without scrolling, so simply called above the fold or above the scroll, and you have nothing in there other than a search engine and a lovely picture of Dubai in the background. And that’s all you need. Because if you’re at luxury property.com The of course the URL says what it is I don’t think there needs much explanation. You don’t need a tagline above the search bar that says find your next luxury property because of course, they’re luxury property.com. I love the minimalism of that above the fold. And it seems sort of silly. And maybe a point not worth mentioning. But I assure you, if you make things easy for people to search for whatever it is you’re selling, then you’re going to just have people use the website more effectively. And I love that you guys went real minimal above the fall below the fold. There’s all sorts of information about who you guys are and what you do and, and your leadership. And that’s wonderful too. And there’s just amazing things but as you scroll, but I love the fact that you very intentionally put nothing almost at the top other than please search for properties is essentially what it’s asking me to do. And of course, there’s no real other option I’m either going to search or I’m going to scroll and learn about and I’m going to go back up to the top and search. And I want to make that point because Realtors oftentimes build really extravagant websites with really cool cutting edge sort of features that don’t necessarily translate into leads. So I love the fact that you guys went really and I don’t I don’t want to say simple because simple sounds like it’s unsophisticated it is not but I just love that simple almost always wins the game or I should say direct direct wins the game.

Mark Castley 49:50
It does my I think you know, that’s something you see. Not just online. You see this with real estate agents, newly licensed or trying to reinvent when they If they find things to do that don’t result in commission checks. And that can be, hey, look, I’ve got the best website in the world and say, Okay, did you get any traffic or any leads from it? Not yet, we’ll look what I can do. And I say, okay, and then they say, Oh, I’ll look at my business card. If you scan it, it’s a VR of media. That’s amazing. Don’t get me wrong, that’s amazing. But if you keep it simple, and you go, you will meet a buyer face to face, and you show him a property that he wants to buy. That’s where the value is. That’s it, it’s all in you keep it as simple as possible. And that’s the same here. You know, it really is, that’s the same here the goal is, keep it as simple as possible, don’t show somebody something they’re going to fall in love with, and get an offer accepted on it and move on to the next.

D.J. Paris 50:50
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And for everyone listening, if we think like, okay, what are the action steps here? Well, if you do have clients in this sort of ultra high net worth space, you need to be aware of a website like luxury property calm, because even if your clients are only moving within the United States, and if they have properties throughout, you know, the the coasts and wherever else they may live, they are might not think about international as an investment or having a weekend home. And as an agent, you have this amazing ability to visit a website like luxury property, find some of those ideas and say, Hey, I was thinking about you, Mr. or Mrs. Client. And I just saw this and I don’t know if this appeals to you or not, but I just wanted to let you know, I was thinking about you check this out this, this might be something that you want to take a look at. And if nothing else, that makes you look incredibly valuable to somebody, because I know at some of those high net worth levels, they love people bring them ideas, whether it’s a business idea, or something. So you as an agent, have this great ability for any of your clients that that play in that higher space to be of be visited of luxury property yourself, luxury property.com, and take a look and see what they offer and then pass it over to your clients. And then remember, you can then submit, if you wanted a referral, you would Mark’s team has some of the best agents, a of the top three agents in all of Dubai and they only have 65 agents out of 7000 something in the Dubai area. So obviously their team can take great care of your client, but you need to be the one to facilitate that. That idea. And what a great website that anybody can use. It’s not behind a paywall. It’s not limited to, you know, some sort of anyone could access it, and your team will sort of take it from there. And I just I just love that.

Mark Castley 52:38
Absolutely. I mean, when, whenever I speak to guys in the US, I always say it’s insane how much traffic we get from the US. So there’s clearly a demand there. So if you have clients, you know, typically a million dollars plus bought in the most part, it’s it’s $10 Million and above. You will have clients like that and if you do we will be happy to help my what’s okay with you, you can share my email. Please. It’s just mark ma RK at luxury property law calm. People send me stuff every day. Whenever I do podcast, I get the best replies from people. I absolutely love it. I was on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, somebody listened and jumped on and said, Mark, I’m moving to Dubai next week. This is this is awesome. I tell you. This is why video is so important. She said to me, Mark, I’m moving to Dubai 14th of February. Rather than send you a long email. I’ve done a video for you. Okay, clicked into the video. Hey, Mark, I’m moving to Dubai wants to come and work for you. And I was like, yeah, that’s just the meet. She was on a zoom. And she starts next month. I was like this. That’s why video is so cool. Isn’t it? Like it’s so cool. It’s the best way to do things. Well. I always meet great people gonna do podcasts. So I would love for anybody to reach out. Even if you’ve just got questions on Dubai. Like some people just say, tell me about Dubai I’ma you know, because it’s, it’s an unknown stone. People know a little bit about it, but it’s still an unknown, right?

D.J. Paris 54:13
Well, I’ll I my girlfriend will probably I know she we’ve mentioned going to Dubai on a trip at some point in the future. So we’ll maybe we’ll come on a Monday and do your 5am Run asleep and but but, but I love the fact that you have that and that you you know, this this ongoing skill development and giving people things that will help them that they can say yes to you know, they they can choose whether they want to be there at 5am which is not an easy ask. And but but the people who show up, you know, that demonstrates a level of commitment and that’s the team that that Mark has built and continues to to build and thrive in Dubai. So for everyone listening check out luxury property.com It’s just a really cool resource. If nothing else to see how the other half live, right There’s that. And then also, it just expands your own understanding of what real estate at those price points look like. So that if you do come across high net worth or ultra high net worth individuals, you now have a conversation starter, you have something to to bring to the table, because of course, you would need to be able to play in that space, or if nothing else, I’ve got a great team over in Dubai, that would love to chat with you. That’s the way I would present it. And that sort of lets you off the hook, knowing some of the intricacies around taxes and rates and you know what’s a good deal and what isn’t. But you can be the the matchmaker, so to speak. So Mark, I would love to thank you for being on our show. This was really a lot of fun for us. And I’m so grateful, by the way we should mention. Mark is doing this really late at night, he’s in a suit looks great. And you know, he was he started this at 9pm. So what a great guy for staying on being part of our show, really, we appreciate it on behalf of the listeners, thank you for staying up and giving us some some great advice. It also by the way, Mark’s a real estate coach, he has lots of great things to say. So hopefully you guys got some great actionable steps. I also will be summarizing those in the show notes for everyone listening. But on behalf of the audience, we thank Mark for staying up late. He’s got a little one at home, he’s got a wife, they would prefer that he’s home and he took time out of his day to do this weekend, hustle home spend time with them. And also on behalf of Mark and myself, we want to thank our audience for continuing to listen support our show, we’re just asked that everybody do two quick things, actually three quick things. One, visit luxury property.com. Get familiar with their website, bookmark it, make it check it out at once a week, go in there, take a look, see what’s available. See, see how those properties look like see if you can step up your own listings with some of the ways that they you know, showcase the the or highlight the benefits of certain properties, you can take that and distill it down into your own market. And number two, please tell a friend about our podcast. The best way that we grow is by agents telling other agents what we do. So if there’s an agent that you’re aware of that could go to that wants to go to that next level isn’t quite there yet. Send him over to our website, keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done is you can stream right through there. If they’re already a podcast listener of sorts, just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real, hit that subscribe button. And I’m sorry, the third thing we’ll ask is please leave a review. Let us know what you think of the show. Let us know what you like what you don’t like. So if you’re on iTunes or now called Apple podcasts, or Spotify or Pandora or Google Play or Stitcher, anywhere you’re listening to podcasts, let us know what you think of the show. This helps us continue to improve and also gets us more visibility to reach more, more realtors to learn from from top people like Mark. So Mark, thank you so much. On behalf of everyone here at the show. I really appreciate your dedication and time. We were wonderful guests, and we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Ben.

In our January episode of Monday Market Minute, Carrie McCormick from atproperties emphasizes that this is the year of off-market deal. Carrie shares tips on how to make the best of the year of off-market deals and discuss these ideas with D.J. Next, D.J. shares his marketing tips of the month. Last, Carrie talks about her Instagram account and how it helps build relationships with her followers/clients.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Carrie can be reached at [email protected] or by phone at 312.961.4612.

Please follow Carrie on Instagram by clicking here.

This episode is brought to you by RealGeeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show, and today on the show is our monthly market minute with Carrie McCormick from the Carrie McCormick Real Estate Group with at properties here in Chicago. Carrie is a top 1% producer with over 20 years of experience helping buyers sellers and investors. She’s a true superstar and an expert in everything from first time homebuyers, veteran investors, and luxury properties. She also works with a lot of developers and is often chosen to represent their high end developments, please visit Carrie at her website, which is Carrie McCormick, r e.com. We have that listed in our show notes and also follow her on Instagram, which is at Carey McCormick real estate and McCormick is to see so Carrie McCormick real estate on Instagram. Carrie, welcome once again to the show.

Carrie McCormick 2:16
Thank you, I love your introduction, I always love hearing it. So thank you. Thank you.

D.J. Paris 2:21
Happy 2022

Carrie McCormick 2:23
You got it. So I just want to kick off this call this podcast and just say that this year 2022 is going to be the year of the off market deal. So we are definitely still seeing a shortage of inventory. So what does that mean? It means there’s buyers on the sidelines, there’s buyers that want to buy, and we just don’t have inventory for people who are listening or watching from all over the United States. Everyone’s experiencing it. So I wanted to share a few things I was privileged to be asked to be on the Inman Connect, which hopefully if you guys saw it, you saw a little bit of our, our, our segment on it. And we also talk there about the 2020 off market deals. So just again, want to give you a little bit of tips about it. So number one, circle prospecting. This is something that’s new. So what does that mean? So let’s say you have a buyer that put an offer in on a home, and they were outbid multiple offer situation, what you do as a buyer representative is you send a letter to all the homes around that particular listing, or if it’s a condo in that condo building, you write a nice letter to the homeowner saying my client just made an offer on your neighbor’s unit or home, we lost out and multiple offer situation they love the neighborhood. If you or anyone you know is looking to sell, here’s my contact information, give me a call. So a new term for me it was called circle prospecting. I thought it was brilliant. And I loved that idea.

D.J. Paris 4:00
It’s such a great idea because it does a couple of things. One, it of course, possibly gets them a future, you know sale, or home to purchase. And it gives the person that’s receiving the letter, you know, a little ego boost, like ooh, somebody’s might be interested in buying my property, which especially if they’re not looking to sell prior to getting that letter now they have that sort of conversation piece with if they have a family, maybe a partner or spouse to go, Hey, you’re not going to believe we just got this should be should we call should we find out? I think it just creates a lot of excitement. And also, it also helps the real estate agents sort of get their name out there and let them know that you sort of play in the space where they live.

Carrie McCormick 4:43
Of course now there’s a lot of benefits to it. But of course our goal is to you know, find a home for our buyer. So it was such a great idea. The next one that we talked about was unsolicited CMAs so what that means is you know I’ve got a database of calls clients that I’ve sold to, or just clients in general, you know that our prospects have sold to is give them a CMA on their home, you know, this is what the value of your home is currently today, hey, I know you’re not looking to sell right now. But in the event, something changes, here’s where your your home is appreciated, and it might make them think twice, and it might make them want to sell. So I thought that was a great way also to find some new inventory. Third idea, which is something I do a lot is work your own network. So you got to think outside the box a little bit, think about, like the attorneys that you work with the accountants that you know, the wealth managers that, you know, you know, they are trusted advisors to their clients as well. So talk to them, see if they have any clients that are in need of buying or selling as well. So again, it’s kind of a little bit more old school method of, you know, picking up the phone and calling people but it’s definitely, definitely a great way to find new business.

D.J. Paris 6:01
I think to like with financial advisors, in particular, if you’re an agent, if and if someone’s listening, who’s an agent who specializes in cash flow type of real estate investing investments, where, you know, maybe it’s a house hacking opportunity, where a client would maybe buy a three flat live on one of the floors rent the other two, or it just has a bunch of cash sitting around, and they want a more regular stream of income coming to them. That’s a great opportunity. If you if you can develop that specialty in real estate, you can then take that to financial advisors and say, Hey, I don’t I’m sure you come across clients who are cash savvy, who are looking for a more reasonable return that’s maybe a little bit more secure. You know, I would love to partner with you went and start talking about that. I you know, I think that’s a huge, huge, great a great thing.

Carrie McCormick 6:53
Yeah, I agree. And then the last tip that I have for prospecting in that is again, going back to old school is finding or pulling a list of homeowners that have been in their home, let’s just say five, 710 years, right? So just let’s use seven as the average. That’s kind of the time when we start seeing people make changes in their life, whether it’s kids getting married, whatever it is outgrowing their space, we find that seven year itch, I guess that happens. So pull a list of homeowners that have been in their home, let’s just say again, seven years plus, they might be thinking about moving so send a nice targeted, you know, email or targeted postcard to those people might be a great way to pick up some new business.

D.J. Paris 7:39
You know, I love all that. Those are all really great marketing ideas as a as a guy who does marketing this is right up,

Carrie McCormick 7:45
right write it down.

D.J. Paris 7:47
i Yeah, write it down. Let’s I’m gonna go back over those. And I want to specifically talk about the unexpected CMA or I’m not sure the actual language you use, but but basically the CMA that you’re doing for somebody that you don’t know yet. So this actually, I, I’ve witnessed this before, I was in a relationship many years ago with a woman who received a packet in the mail from somebody she didn’t know it was a realtor that I guess had sold a property in that neighborhood. And he had done exactly that, or he and he had a he had good news to share, because he said, I see that you purchased it for approximately this, my best estimate shows us that we’re probably at around x, and it was about an $80,000 appreciation over three years or something just really impressive. And she didn’t really know that because, you know, she it was her first property. And just, you know, she just wasn’t checking Zillow, looking at the Zestimate every day, and didn’t really know and she already had a good relationship with a realtor. So in that case, you know, it wasn’t, I would say, didn’t translate into her reaching out to this particular agent. But it was a it was a single letter, and it had like a little packet behind it of like the actual brokers information and, you know, a little brochure kind of thing. But the letter was really good. And I was like, That is brilliant. Because it tells people what they want to know, but don’t always think to look up which is and most agents from sorry, most consumed most of homeowners, really the only place they would have any sort of awareness of what their home might be worth is if their next door neighbor sells their home and they tell them or they know or they’re going to Zillow. And so obviously we know that Zillow estimates sometimes are accurate, sometimes not. So this is a huge opportunity to to also so I was going to use it’s funny you mentioned that because I was going to do a very similar suggestion in in my marketing minute which has to do very similar to what to what Carrie was mentioning with with this sort of prospecting which is you know, once you close on a property once or sorry, once you sell someone’s home or somebody buys something in an area, this is a huge opportunity for You’d have to reach out to those neighbors. And I don’t know, during COVID You know what the best way to do that is? Certainly, I know, people who have who go who door knock. I know, I know, top 1% agents that do that. And they just go, you know, if it’s like a neighborhood, they feel comfortable, they’ll just kind of politely knock on the door and say, Oh, just want to introduce myself. That’s a very direct approach. I don’t know how well that would work these days. But certainly, you could write a handwritten note or you could, you know, I see, I think, too, you could do it when you list the property. So I’ve always thought what kind of a fun way to meet the neighbors, when you have a home that’s listed is to maybe then it’s a good time to sort of knock on a few of the neighbor’s doors, not to prospect or to say, hey, you should use me, I’m selling your, you know, this next door neighbor’s home, but to say to them, Hey, just so you know, I’m going to be kind of in and out of the neighborhood a lot. I’m going to be showing the property. If you ever see anything that looks strange or weird, you know, please let me know. But I just wanted you to know who I was. So if you see me coming and going, you know, and you could even also make a joke I didn’t want you think I was gonna rob the place, you know, but I’m, you know, you could be cute about it. And, and I think that was a really disarming, and is a really nice way. But But again, it’s this idea of whether it’s, you know, while it’s listed or right after the sale, you have this huge opportunity because everybody so this is funny Carrie, you’ll know this person for those of you who are in Chicagoland area this this name will be familiar. But if you’re not, you won’t, but I’ll explain what this person does Nikko apostle from Coldwell Banker, who is one of just the nicest, kindest, very nice love, sweet sweetheart of a guy. He did this. Whenever he gets an open house. And he’s first started. He’s a Coldwell Banker, I don’t know where he is now, I think is his own thing. Now I forget where he is. But he was at Coldwell Banker for a long time. And he, when he first started, he was in his early 20s. And he didn’t have any listings, because you know, you didn’t have any friends buying or selling anything. And and he, he would ask the agents in his office for Open House opportunities Can I can I go for your showing and do an open house. And then he would text all of his friends and say, Please come to my open house. And he said nobody would ever come because they’re all early 20s people who you know, don’t have to aren’t buying property. And he said, So where he goes, then what I would do this is me speaking as him, he said I would go to the door all of the the like within a block, I would knock on all the doors about an hour or two before the actual open house. And I would say hey, I’m you know, so and so I’m Nico. And I’m going to be doing an open house. And hey, if you just want to come by and check it out, like, just feel free. And I started when he explaining that to me, I said, but would anybody ever come by? And he goes all the time? And I said, Well, I said

why? And he goes because everybody wants to know what their neighbors homes look like? Absolutely. I was like, That is brilliant. I never thought of that. That’s the number one

Carrie McCormick 12:55
reason a lot of sellers don’t want open houses is they’re like, I don’t want my neighbors coming into my house. No, but no, I love his main ambition. And it does work. And believe it or not, I’ve had that too, where a neighbor walks in and, you know, not a direct neighbor, but maybe you know, down the street, and they’re like, You know what my friends looking I’d love for my friend have lived by me, you know. So kudos to him. It’s a great idea. Love, it

D.J. Paris 13:20
will circle prospecting. I am just now starting to get familiar with that as well over the last year, I’ve become more understanding of what that is. I’m so glad you’re talking about it, because I haven’t thought about it in a while. But this idea of hey, you know, we missed out on this. We my client put a bid on this property. It didn’t work out, you know, long shot out long shot, but hey, are you thinking of selling because we’d like to look at your property, that sort of it maybe not that direct, but however it’s phrased boy, I’m thinking of myself as a homeowner actually care, the place I purchased was actually what would have carries developments. And I would I would take that phone call, even though I just moved in a year ago, and I’m certainly not looking to move. But if somebody gets your attention, right gets my attention and it’s flattering. So Oh god, I love that it takes a little bit. So So Where Where would somebody go to get? I know there’s lots of places online but where would they go to purchase a list of like the addresses nearby? I mean, there’s I guess you just Google it.

Carrie McCormick 14:22
I don’t know I mean our systems even like we use the EM read system, the Multiple Listing Service there’s there’s different tools in there. I’m without properties here in Chicago. So we’ve got our own tool that we use as well. So I think within each brokerage there’s probably resources and there’s a ton of third party companies to pull data. It’s just you know, not all of its accurate but you know, it’s you can definitely do a data poll online.

D.J. Paris 14:48
And I love that like five to seven year thing as well like, like getting data for people that have have moved in and you know, maybe seven years as Carrie as Carrie said And and I think I was thinking from a marketing perspective, like what I say in there? Hey, according to my, my stuff you’ve been there, you know what, I wouldn’t even mention that I know they’d been there seven years because you might be wrong, or it might just it maybe they, you know, whatever have a different sort of situation. But I would absolutely send an email or a message saying, Hey, are you thinking of selling? I love that. I think that is that is so, so smart. So I think we just crammed a lot of stuff into a short episode. And I think that’s perfect. By the way, we should mention also that, please follow Carrie on Instagram, I said that earlier. But it really is a, it’s a great model for other realtors to get a sense of how to do it in a fun way, but also an elegant way. And to just have fun with your social media. And what I like about you is you really enjoy doing that you do it yourself. You You do all the graphic design. And, and I’m curious to know, how often does business and I know you’ve been in this business a long time, so you get a lot of referrals? But does business ever come directly from somebody who goes you know, I started following you on Instagram? Maybe?

Carrie McCormick 16:09
There you go. Absolutely. Yeah, it’s but it’s also you know, about engagement, because I do a lot of work have spent quite a bit of time on it, you know, someone wants to, you know, message me or have questions or talk to me over social media. So I think it’s not just posting things and you know, being out there, but it’s, it’s really that engagement with clients to and seeing you know, they they know that I respond to them. So, you know, they like that. But absolutely, to answer your question. It’s, it’s definitely a good form of advertising.

D.J. Paris 16:41
And also, for every we have, I don’t know if I’ve ever shared this with you, Carrie, but we’ve had over 100. And at our best guess and it’s not a perfect science, we know we’ve had at least 150,000 unique users. So individuals download at least one of our episodes, we don’t know if they ever listened. But we know that at least 150,000 unique people have done that. So we get people from all over the country and even in other countries who are you know, listen and subscribe to our show. And so if you have if you’re listening, and you have clients that are moving to Chicago, this is a great opportunity to make a an inroad with with one of the top Realtors here in Chicago. So definitely keep Kerry and her group in mind, you know, they’ll certainly be able to assist and if not, they’ll be able to even, you know, tell you who else would would be a better fit. But what’s the and by the way, for those that are listening that might not be real estate professionals but are interested in, you know, buying or selling or investing renting here in Chicago. And they do want to work with a top agent like you what’s the best way they should reach out,

Carrie McCormick 17:46
I always pick up my phone, so call me at 312-961-4612 You can text me, you can find me on Instagram, you’ll see I’ll respond there you can email me, Kerry, CA RR ie [email protected]. Anytime you reach out to me, you know you’re gonna get a call back or I’ll answer my phone.

D.J. Paris 18:08
Yeah. And that’s, it’s, it’s something that seems so commonplace. But in this industry, not everyone operates like that. So it’s nice to know that you know that you you take such good care of your clients. And I know because I was on the other side of what are your deals, so I know just how high touch you are. And he really carries her reputation is beyond beyond reproach. So yeah, you’re welcome. Well, we will we are excited to you know, do another year here. This podcast was is Gosh, you and I have been together since the very beginning. And we are grateful for that as well. And on behalf of the audience, we thank Carrie for coming on. Gosh, I don’t know it’s probably four years now, three or four years at least. And coming on tirelessly, month after month, even though she’s she’s busy. In fact, to get on this she had to race home is how I don’t know how many inches of snow outside of snow outside, lot of snow. And she jumped on and I’m sure she’s going to have to jump right to something else. So we’re grateful for her and her time also great grateful to our audience really, really thankful for everyone. We are coming up on a major milestone, I won’t reveal exactly what that is. But we should hit a major milestone, we will reveal it when we had it in the next couple of weeks. And that is because of you guys listening. And I say guys, of course men and women and however you may identify, and we’re grateful to have you as a listener. So Interviewer So please help us continue to grow by just telling a friend think of one other realtor that could benefit from hearing this great conversation with Carrie which by the way, she just gave like four or five great marketing ideas. So go ahead and send this over to somebody else in your office or tell your whole office about it. That would really help us continue to reach more agents and listeners and also please leave us a review. This is really important for us. It really really helps us, let us know or go on to iTunes or Wherever you’re listening to this podcast and let us know what you think of the show, you know, radar show, tell us what you like what you don’t like. That really helps us continue to improve as well. So anyway, Carrie, thank you once again. We will see everybody Yeah, we’ll see everybody on the next episode. Bye guys.

Welcome to our monthly feature, Close-ing Time – in partnership with TheClose.com.

Chris Linsell from TheClose.com discusses the new features that TheClose is preparing for their followers. Chris goes on to talk about what’s happening in the news world and focuses on housing numbers for 2021. Chris shares his tips for buyers and sellers based on the current situation in the market and the predictions for the near future. Chris and D.J. discuss the importance of bringing ideas to your clients and how this will help build your relationships.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Chris Linsell can be reached at [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Welcome to keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show and today is our monthly series called closing time with Chris Lindh sell from the close. Now this is a partnership between keeping it real and the closed.com Let me tell you about the close. close.com is the kind of real estate website designed to give agents teams and brokerages actionable strategic insight from industry professionals. They cover real estate marketing, lead generation technology and team building strategies from the perspective of working agents and brokers who want to take their business to the next level. Please visit the closed.com That’s th e c l o s e.com and peruse their articles subscribe to their newsletter so you get notified each time they publish one of their long form deep dive articles. Now with us as always is Chris Lynn Sal. He is a staff writer and real estate coach for the close. Chris is the closes resident expert on real estate topics ranging from marketing lead gen transactional best practices and everything in between. He’s a licensed agent in the state of Michigan. Chris has been part of hundreds of transactions from modest rural starter homes to massive waterside waterside compounds. And when he isn’t writing, you’ll find Chris fly fishing or performing on the stage of his community theaters production. Now let’s press Welcome once again to keeping it real. We’re excited to

Chris Linsell 2:48
have you here. Thanks for having me back. Happy 2022 We’re in it where it’s here we started.

D.J. Paris 2:55
We are at Happy 2022 to you as well. And we actually we had to reschedule this one of Chris’s children was had a nasty cold earlier this week. We’re glad your daughter’s feeling better. And we are glad to be able to have bring you back on I know. Of course children just just throw a monkey wrench. Yeah, that’s in the works.

Chris Linsell 3:16
That’s the truth. You know, it’s funny, it’s just a little just a little cold everyone is everyone’s happy and healthy. But somehow my family my I have two daughters and my wife, the four of us have managed to avoid COVID Thus far, we feel like we’re in this like elementary school dodgeball game. And like the front lines are really thin and out so every little cold and cough and sneeze were like, oh no, oh, is it common for us? And we’re managed to stay healthy. And we’re still still COVID Free and feeling good. I know a lot of people are struggling with that right now. But you know, we’re moving in the right direction. And I think I think everyone’s moving in the right direction right now. It feels like numbers are going going where we want them to go at least for the time being.

D.J. Paris 4:04
Yeah, I always think about the teachers that especially at the well I don’t know if it matters what grade children are in, but boy I just like these teachers and they don’t get paid enough to be really on the front line. Yeah, but invisible war. Truth. Oh, boy. Well, I’m glad glad you guys are healthy. I had I just same thing I my girlfriend came down with COVID in December and really through our holiday plans off but she’s fine. But the fact that I didn’t get it and we live in the same house. or I shouldn’t say house it’s a small condo that that I didn’t get it. We have two bedrooms thankfully. But is is just dumb luck and I don’t know I it’s it’s also confusing right now. How to how to be safe and and watch. I had a guy come into my office yesterday. He used to be a Realtor with us he kind of left The industry for a while and when to come back. And he just immediately reached out to shake my hand. And I had to think about it for a second and go, boy, that’s kind of a bummer. I had to think about whether I could shake this guy’s hand and yeah, and that’s just where we’re at maybe handshake should just be done away with altogether. I don’t know. But. But anyway, it’s a strange world. But we are not here to talk. COVID per safety protocol, although it’s on all of our minds. Yeah, at the time. But let’s talk about what’s going on in the real estate market. I know you have a couple of things that have caught your attention.

Chris Linsell 5:31
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I’m

D.J. Paris 5:34
sorry, Chris, before we get to that, hold on. Oh, yes, sir. Because I’m gonna forget to mention this. And this is really important. Can we talk about a upcoming, the close.com has an upcoming sort of rebirth or rebirth? or new release coming up? Yeah,

Chris Linsell 5:47
yeah, we totally can. I, you know, I’m not sure exactly when this episode is going to air. But if you are a close.com, visitor, if you are a fan of Chris Lin, Sal and the rest of our team, you you, I hope that you come and check out the site. And it’s gonna look a little different pretty soon, I’m not going to spill the beans on all the details here. But suffice it to say that we have been so grateful at the close for the many years. And it’s amazing to say that many years at this point that we’ve been putting in hard work to create the best real estate content on the internet. And readers have responded to that. And we’ve grown our community by leaps and bounds. And it’s about time, you know, we were in our starter house, we had bought early, we were in our starter house, we you know, we were kind of getting our getting our family in order. And you know, what the family has grown. And it’s time for us to level up to the next house. And so we’ve got a website redesign that is going to be really exciting and show off some really cool new features to close users. And again, I’m not gonna get into specifics you’re just gonna have to watch for it’s gonna be somewhere towards the beginning of February and man Oh, man, it’s it’s pretty awesome, guys. So make sure to check out the clothes.com. In fact, come every day, we got new stuff happening every day, come check out the new articles. And just you know, towards beginning of February, Bada, bing, bada boom, you’re gonna have a new site to look at. It’s It’s pretty awesome.

D.J. Paris 7:20
We should also mention too, that the clothes dot coms content is really pretty unique in the industry, where it’s hyper focused on really, it’s almost exclusively helping agents grow their business. It’s not really trying to replicate Inman for what’s going on in the news, although you do talk about the news. But a lot of it’s like deep dives into, hey, we took a look at every CRM out there that that’s that you might know, here’s what we think. And here’s a deep dive into, you know, each lead generation, you know, provider out there, and here’s some scripts that still work and, and conversations that are beyond, hey, five tips for an open house, which which we see a lot of that more superficial content elsewhere. And it’s really prevalent, because it’s easy to write, it’s easy to write some of those list based, you know, small shallow style articles. And the closed doesn’t do that they have real journalists, they go deep, they go wide, and their articles are long and not so long that you can’t, you know, get to the end because you’ll be really captivated by how good the content is. So this this is I really want to make a sort of plea to everyone listening, that our show is about helping you grow your business, the closers got the exact same model, please. And if you want to get notified about when the new site goes live, subscribe to their newsletter, they’re going to, I’m sure send something out. When that happens, you’ll be the first to know, boy, the content is just that good. They have just, I’m somebody that’s written for magazines over the years different publications. It’s not my full time profession, but I’ve been around enough full time professional writers to know they have they have great content, and it’s really excellent. So check out the course. Okay.

Chris Linsell 9:10
Thank you, DJ, thank you. No, I just, I

D.J. Paris 9:13
believe it and I believe it. And it, I get a lot of great ideas that I pass on to our Realtors at our at our brokerage here in Chicago, because it’s the best content I can find. So it just that’s just the truth. So anyway, let’s talk about what’s going on in the news news world today.

Chris Linsell 9:32
Well, okay, so a couple of a couple of interesting numbers. There’s a lot of things happening, a lot of things happening. You know, like, and I’m gonna just throw out here there’s a couple of headlines that you know are gonna catch your eye but not as much substance or a lot of effect behind it like Adam Kontos one of my favorite CEOs, he’s leaving REMAX and and moving on to other projects. That’s a that’s a that’s a story I think. He was a great leader at REMAX. It’s not going to have a huge effect on on most agents business. But there are some things that are more than just headlines that I think are big deals. Like for instance, we had some housing numbers released for the month of December. And the fact is, housing inventory was down 40%. Relative, I think it was about 40%. Year over year, it’s the lowest inventory levels that we’ve seen, in a long time pre pandemic, for sure. And when you think about the number of homes that are available, is now I mean, in a real way affecting sales numbers, this is something that is going to really have a true impact on real agents business. In fact, sales for the month of December were down nearly 5% adjusted for holiday behavior. And it wasn’t because buyers weren’t interested, it was literally because they didn’t have anything to buy 5% a 5% drop in sales is significant, especially when you think about the size of the of the communities that you’re working within, you know, you think about the number of sales that happen in your individual market. Anyone who’s listening to him, If you eliminated five out of those 100, it’s not just five transactions that don’t have Commission’s on them, which is obviously a real thing. That’s five families who don’t have a house that they that they would have before. And it’s because there’s just nothing to buy. That’s a pretty significant drop.

D.J. Paris 11:45
It is and in addition to that, with the inventory, sort of being at a at a real serious low, and of course real estate’s hyperlocal. And everyone listening might not care so much about national numbers, they’re more interested, of course, in their immediate, serviceable area. However, we also have on top of that, we see rates are starting lunga rates are starting to creep up. And they’ve made a bit of a jump. So there’s this feeling of urgency, I think that you have these buyers that are ready rates are still pretty low, and yet they’re struggling to find property.

Chris Linsell 12:20
Yeah, that’s the truth. And you know, frankly, there is there’s even even that even what you just discussed there is is maybe a house built on shifting sand, frankly, because mortgage rates are already I mean, there’s in the last the last the middle two weeks of January, as we’re recording this, rates have gone up pretty significantly relative to where they were even a month or two ago. And that’s going to continue to go up and the Fed has announced that we’re going to see at least three rate hikes officially in 2022. And we still have, you know, kind of market response hikes that will happen as well. In fact, there are I read an article on CNBC this morning that posited that something like 5 million 6 million American homeowners who were in a position to save money on a refinance, but haven’t gone through the process yet have basically lost that opportunity at this point. And so, you know, what we have right now, I think what’s important to point out, we’re pointing out, you know, identify these rate, the rate moves and you know, kind of volatility, the low inventory, and a third number, which I’ll throw in here, which is that rents are higher than they have been in a long time. In fact, we’re seeing rent, rent increases nationwide, and not just in the major metro centers. We are are beginning to see, the I don’t even want to call it the beginning of it is it is the kind of the second and third chapter in the book of a housing squeeze. That isn’t fun anymore. You know, there is there is something about a really competitive seller’s market that can be really fun, to some degree, because you’re like, Wow, I can’t believe things are selling for this high. There’s my everyone’s so excited and there’s so much intensity and we get in so many offers and and it’s just a really, you know, kind of big bam, boom kind of time to be in the business. We are approaching the chapters in this book where it’s less fun, because you’re seeing real impact on people being unable to take the steps in their homeownership journeys that are necessary to leveling up their lives and the next chapters in their prosperity, that that isn’t fun anymore. And so as real estate is we have to be cognizant there. This isn’t A, we may be approaching a sector in this market kind of curve, where we’ve got people who are not not smiling or laughing anymore. It is there are some real effects happening on the people that matter in our communities.

D.J. Paris 15:16
So as an agent as our listeners, yeah, what, you know, now they’re sort of aware we have inventory shortages, they, you know, I’m sure our listeners are, you know, they’re to live that each day we’re seeing rates creep up the average 30. year fixed is now around what 3.6 3.7%, which is still amazing, but not as amazing as it was when it was in the the high twos. So there’s, we you mentioned the Fed, you know, going to be possibly, you know, hiking rates up to three times this year. And there’s a bit of a race against the clock. So I guess, if you have sellers, there’s still that, that excitement of the urgency of, of putting it on the market and selling it. But then you have to deal with the buy side with the person’s family’s next move and feeling the struggle there. So what how would an agent use this information to just adjust their business to sort of adapt to this condition,

Chris Linsell 16:16
these versions? Yeah, there’s a couple of things I would say the first thing is, if I am a listing agent, I would be talking to my clients, specifically the ones who are who have a home to sell, but have you know, decided for one reason or another that it’s not quite time yet, or they’re not the you know, they they want to wait around and continue to see what happens. What we are seeing right now, especially with the way that rents are moving and and interest rates are moving, it is likely. And of course, I don’t have a crystal ball here, but it is likely that buying buyers, you know kind of ammunition and power is going to start to decrease over the next year or so. And what this means for sellers is the the scenarios that we’ve been enjoying over, especially over the last year, where we’ve got basically buyers who are willing to do just about anything to get into homes, the number of things that they can do is going to start to decrease. And so you are, there will be a time a tipping point where you won’t get the top dollar that you could have gotten January 2022, who knows exactly when that will be. But my suggestion to the listing agents right now are have the strike while the iron is hot conversation with your sellers, and talk about as many opportunities and options as you can I mean, if the if it is purely a financial move, you know, lay out the case for you know, here’s here’s why you should be considering this now relative to three or six or nine months from now. If it’s a we don’t have a place to go kind of move. You know, I am telling I’ve told listing clients over the last six months, right now might not be the worst time in the world. For you if you have a like a region that you want to be or like a geographic place that you want to be. Consider the idea if you have the wherewithal of selling your home right now, banking your proceeds from this renting for two years, or for a year and a half. And then shopping at the end of that that period. Because you have right now you have a lot of power on the sell side and the buy side, it is pretty challenging, I have a feeling that’s going to be switching here pretty soon. So if you want to take advantage of your of your power right now, bank those proceeds rent for a little bit and then start shopping and a little bit, you know, a year and a half, two years down the road. This is not the strategy that works for everybody. But these are these are things that listing agents can be talking about, on the buy side of things. I am telling buyers right now, to start thinking about how you can make your offers competitive relative using relative terms that are not just about price. How can you how can we structure offers so that it isn’t just the number that makes your offer stand out to sellers? So I’m talking about terms you know, do you have the opportunity to do certain amount of cash that you wouldn’t be able to do before I’m talking about possession? Can you offer your sellers extended possession after closing to make it the most convenient possible transaction in their world? I’m talking about covering closing costs I’m cutting I’m talking about a pray He’s little gaps, I’m talking about all of the different ways that you can, you know, kind of apply an extra layer of garlic butter to the top of that offer so that it is the most appetizing thing that your seller will see all day. The The time has come for us to kind of get our buyers out of the gladiator ring of price wars, and start being a little bit more thoughtful with the other terms that we can offer. Because frankly, that’s where that’s where the the the bidding wars are eventually going to be one because buyers buyers, you know, power in the market is going to start to slip here pretty soon

D.J. Paris 20:39
as rates climb up. And, you know, we should also talk about just just another sort of addition to the or another variable to this sort of equation of challenge for buyers, is inflation. Inflation is raised, it’s what’s driving our rates. But inflation went up 7% I think it was last year. And I think traditionally over time, historically, it’s about 3%, on average, somewhere in that neighborhood three to 4%. So it’s it’s basically doubled in one year. Inflation, of course, is the costs basically the cost of goods and services is, is really the best way to think of it the average, you know, employee gets what, like a 3% Raise a year. So if if you only and again, everyone listening here is probably an independent contractor realtor who doesn’t deal with salary. But you know, even if you got a 3% Raise last year as a salaried employee, you really still lost quite quite a bit of money because of inflation is outpacing you know, even raises. So there’s just a lot of sort of confusing factors. But I loved your idea back onto the the listing sort of side or, you know, I think Chris’s idea while it sounds like yeah, most most people wouldn’t go for the I don’t know that most people wouldn’t go for it. But maybe it wouldn’t be as as achievable for a lot of homeowners to sell a property, rent for a few years, and then go back to the market to buy. That’s regardless of whether someone does that. From a fiduciary perspective, it is a very valid option. Whether or not it works for them. There’s a lot of reasons why it might not. But boy, that’s an excellent sort of conversation to have, and one that would really, in my opinion, you know, really make you seem valuable to someone. I love the I love when someone brings me an idea whether I want to do it or not, of course is up to me. But I found in life that very few times in my life does do the service providers in my life come to me with ideas. You know, my my accountant doesn’t really come to me and I love my accountant. But my account doesn’t say here’s a great way to save a bunch of money next year, I have to do my Oh, maybe I don’t have an accountant. But no, I love my accountant. But you know, my attorneys don’t my attorney to say my financial advisor. Yeah, they sometimes do. But generally speaking, this is an opportunity for you to you know, even just say I’ve got this idea at first, you might sort of wins from it. But I want to go through it and just explain why it’s not maybe the the worst idea for you guys to think about or if you have people that own a home, that aren’t thinking of selling, now’s the time to talk about that inventory is down. And there’s just a lot of good conversation here. Whether it results in a transaction, I think is up to the gods, but what it what it, what I think it should do and would do is at least have the customer the client think, wow, my persons coming to me with an idea. And that means they care to some extent. And it just makes you look like a professional and most agents would never think of that. On the buy side. You know, I think just having some some of empathy around what the customer is going through, there’s a tremendous amount of stress with when there’s a low inventory for buyers. I mean, it’s just stressful, they they have to make decisions faster, they have to overpay, in a lot of times to be competitive, the agent is stressed because now they have to think about creative ways to get their offer looked at and accepted and in some of the suggestions you have. So it is it is just stressful all the way around. And I think this is a great time to realize it’s most stressful for the customer, whether it’s the buyer or seller, and I think empathy, compassion. And just being there to hear the client is is is probably the one of the most valuable parts of being a realtor. For some agents. They love that part. Others don’t. But I think I think most most people are probably a little freaked out right now.

Yeah, well, you know, one thing that I agree with you i There is a lot of kind of wide eyed, no blinking conversations happening with clients right now. But one thing I think is is a silver lining that a lot of consumers are maybe glossing over and agents really should be bringing this up right now is, despite all of the craziness that’s happening in the market, one thing that homeowners one, one significant level up that homeowners have, right in this moment, is most of them have a significant increase in equity if they have a mortgage on their property due to these incredible price spikes. And even though I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of people who have missed an opportunity to refinance to save a lot of cost. That doesn’t mean that these people have missed an opportunity to do something with this equity. In fact, there are there are people in fact, I’m doing it myself right now I was able to refinance, save a little money via a lower interest rate. But the the real value that I’m doing here is I am literally pulling some equity out of the house to do some renovations and some projects. I am you know, obviously increasing my loan amount via this this equity poll. But my payment is staying exactly the same, it is dollar for dollar, the same amount that I pay every month. And now I have money to do projects with and that’s great because I’ve got a young family who breaks stuff all the time and we need new carpet and it is a it’s a necessary part of of maintaining sanity in this house that now I live and work and spend 22 hours a day in which is great. I love it. I’m not complaining

Chris Linsell 26:48
if my wife was listening, I love this. And but what if there was the the other opportunities here, if you’re not going to do projects, is if you can pull 5060 $70,000 of equity out of your house and not change your natural change your your payment, you have an opportunity to then turn that money around and put it back to work for you in the form of a down payment on an investment property. maybe partner with somebody on purchasing an Airbnb, I have two two close friends slash clients who did this exact same thing than this in the last 90 days they have taken cashed out equity, put a downpayment together on an investment property, the the investment property Airbnbs for far more than what they will pay for the mortgage for us and their debt to income ratio. What they will use to you know what their mortgage officer will use to evaluate their next loan when they’re ready to move out of this house and move into the next house. You know, personally, their debt to income ratio has improved because they they are cashflow positive on something that people really want right now. We have equity is a powerful tool. And it isn’t just for home renovation, though that’s a powerful part of it too. We’ve got it right now homeowners across the United States have moved higher equity levels than they’ve ever had before right now. And so this is still a big opportunity for people who own a home so agents if you have clients who own homes and frankly if you don’t have any clients that that don’t own homes, you’re not doing this right like this is these are your people here reach out to them I don’t care if they bought their house six months ago, I mean the the equity jumps that are happening right now. Like I honestly I had to call the appraiser to double check that I was sent the right report when we got the appraisal back on our house because I couldn’t believe how much it had jumped even just in a year. So right now there is an opportunity agents you can be the fiduciary for your clients by bringing them these opportunities and by creating for them chances that they can use the wealth that you put in their pocket via your counsel of the purchase of this property, use that wealth to grow it into what can be a generate the start of generational wealth to pass on to to you know spouses or to family members or to whoever is going to inherit that. That doesn’t happen forever. This the equity levels relative to loan levels. These fluctuate based on market values. The iron is still hot so agents snapped to it right now is the time.

D.J. Paris 29:55
Yeah, and you know, just sort of thinking about Zillow. As as so prominent in just American daily life as being the number one most visited realtor, sorry, sorry, consumer facing website. Realtors of course use it as well. But Zillow, you know, they’re they’re known for really one thing above all else, which is their Zestimate. And we might be hearing some through the, through the invisible airwaves, some, some collective groans for realtors who think that estimates are off off base, whether they are or aren’t isn’t really the point. But that’s what consumers do look at. And so if you aren’t, if someone is looking up their home to see what Zillow thinks the value might be worth. And we know more consumers visit Zillow by a multiple, by gosh, I don’t even I mean they they get over 200 million unique visitors a month, I think at this point. That’s where people are going to look to see what the value of their home is. And you know whether Zillow is accurate or not, that’s where people are going. And so you I think you have a real opportunity, even also to do some farming, where you know, going into a neighborhood that you’ve seen some appreciation, maybe looking on Zillow, and si si just taking a look go to a neighborhood that you’d really like to have more more of a presence in, you know, look at the last time the home was sold. Look at what the Zestimate is right now. And if there’s a big jump there, I think for me, that would be an opportunity to put a letter together to that homeowner say Hey, I didn’t know if you’ve noticed, but I believe your home’s appreciated quite a bit. I’ve put I’ve run some comps for you. I know we don’t I don’t you we don’t know each other yet. But if you’re interested in having a conversation about what your home is currently worth, maybe even versus Are you looking to sell, we’re just talking about, you know what, and as Chris mentioned, here’s maybe something if you’re not looking to sell that you can do with the equity right now. And these are all really, really great secondary marketing tools, in addition to being you know, providing real value to your customers, it’s a huge opportunity just to let people know what’s going on. And I will tell you, they’re they’re just going back to my initial point about so few people in my life ever bring me an idea. Now at work I get I get that but but outside of work in my personal life, geez, it just unless I’m talking to a friend at a party, and they go, Oh, I got this new cool thing, you have to check it out. Or, you know, I got a pellet ice machine recently, in the last year, and I don’t know if you’ve ever looked into pellet ice. But there’s a great New York Times article about it years ago called pellet ice is the good ice that I read that I went, Oh, I know what pellet ice is. It’s the best. But so so whenever people come over, I talk about it. But it’s kind of a silly example. But the point is, is every single person I talked to about paradise doesn’t doesn’t really know about it until I explain it. And then when they try it, they’re like, oh my god, I have to get one of these, these little machines. The point is, is you can bring those types of real estate ideas to your customers and find a way pellet ice machine would be a great closing gift for

Chris Linsell 33:06
you know, anyone I’m just gonna shout this out right now. I know DJ, you guys don’t have have kids. But anybody who’s has a partner who has given birth to a child in a hospital, they no chips, the the pellet ice in the hospital is like it is manna from heaven. So I know about the pelletized that’s a great idea about the closing gift. And I you know, DJ what you said, I think, man, I mean, I know I don’t write the headline for what goes on this episode, or on each episodes, but I’m just gonna throw it out here. This is the theme of this episode is be the realtor who brings ideas, be the professional who don’t, don’t wait for people to call you. Okay? Don’t wait for somebody to sit back or to show up in your office and say, I have a specific problem that I need you to solve, those people are still going to come and those are still people that you need to serve us obviously. But you are going to set yourself apart by being the realtor who comes with comes to people with the ideas that you are the person who you are, you’re standing up for your clients and it shows them that you’re thinking about these people. In fact, you know, I know I know, we’re starting to get towards the end here, but I just want to share one of the one of the things that I talk about with coaching clients, it’s a way it’s actually one of the central tenets that I I coach, with with agents and with teams specifically about how to create these not just professional relationships, but these these, you know this this, this feeling of responsibility that your clients feel like you are you are you take your your professional representation of them very seriously that you’re responsible for that the term that I always use that I coach people to use, and it works like a charm is, I was thinking about you this morning. I was having coffee in a coffee shop and I was thinking about you this morning. That’s all you have to say that the phrase I was thinking about you this morning, I was thinking about you before I got started with everything else you were top of mind. And something triggered in my brain a reason that I needed to, I needed to call you I needed to reach out to you, it doesn’t matter what follows that next sentence or that statement, I was thinking about you this morning. Because whatever it was that that first half of that sentence is going to create an opportunity to connect that your responsibility for their well being with you and with the care that you provide. So be the agent who brings things don’t sit back and wait for someone to bring them to you. You be the bringer. You be the agent that says I was thinking about you this morning. I guarantee you, your business will go up into the right if you take that pack.

D.J. Paris 36:04
Yeah, I couldn’t I couldn’t agree more. And that was so beautifully said I’ll just tag on to that something that one of our monthly guests. Joel Schaub, from Guaranteed Rate says almost every episode and and I have to remind him to keep saying it because Because he’ll he’ll oftentimes say, Gosh, I say this every time it’s probably boring. I said no, it’s it’s it’s such a great thing. But he just says givers givers get givers get, and it’s not just about giving your time during a transaction, of course you should and you and you ought to, and you will and and all of that, but But giving to the people that aren’t yet selling consistently reminding them why they should choose you. And by the best way to do that, you know, there’s there’s ways to do that by sending them you know, a magnet with you know, the local sports teams scheduled for the year there. That’s one thing you can do, I guess. But boy, I would much rather have somebody say I’ve got an idea I was thinking about you have an idea. I don’t know if it makes sense for you or not. But I feel like it was I should at least tell you, I’ve seen this work, or I’ve been reading about this. And just um, I would love that. And and I know I would love that in my life. And every year around tax time, like I, I go to my accountant. And you know, we’re now starting to get all of our tax materials together, most of us probably are starting to accumulate those receipts. And the W nines are the only twos. And so you know, it’s that time of year where you’re like, God, is there anything I’m missing? Is there any strategies? And if you’re like me, you go to Google and you start looking around? Is there more things I can deduct that I just don’t know about as a tax law changed? The so I can take advantage of certain things. I would love it if so I would pay somebody, you know, to call me and say I got five ideas for you for taxes this year. And I know my accountant is excellent. But she’s got hundreds and hundreds of clients, she’s not going to be able to do that. Realistically, it’s like your insurance aid. My insurance agent who I love does not call me and say I got an idea how you can save a little bit more. With I call her she’s she’s great. But does she have time she has 2000 clients. Of course, she’s not going to call me I understand. So but boy, I would sure love somebody to call me and give me an idea here and then and they would win all of my business. They would so So Chris said it perfectly. I think that’s a great place to wrap up. I know we were also going to talk about lone wolf, we can maybe we can talk about that on our next next episode, how they have become just a powerhouse in the in the tech space. Most of us have probably touched some of the tools they use, or they own or they develop. And we certainly can have that conversation on next. The next month. Yeah, next month’s closing time. So for what, of course, remind everyone to please visit the clothes.com this is just an amazing resource. Deep Dive articles long form articles written by real journalists who really do their research and talk to companies who are providing certain certain material and then evaluating them and giving agents great ideas. Oh, by the way, like 99% of the content on there is free. There is a subscription based model where you get even additional content you get coaching opportunities, and that’s called the close Pro. Do you mind giving a quick explanation of the close Pro?

Chris Linsell 39:16
Yeah, absolutely close Pro. If you are a if you’re interested in going even deeper in what the closed has to offer, we have the closed pro it’s a like you said it’s a subscription based premium service. real the real feature and function of the close Pro is to provide agents with not just quality content but next level presentation incredible resources and really access to experts in a way that you really don’t get in any other place. So we have a ton of like I said courses we have a huge resource library my favorite course right now my favorite close Pro training course is the Facebook and in digram Crash Course for agents. It’s a fantastic video training course, there’s a ton of written material that go with it, there’s so many ways that we can use this course to level up our social media. You know, the clothes ran a big study at the end of last year and said something like 86% of agents felt like their social media was still not on par. And this is a great course to get it to get it to where it is functioning and actually generating business. So if you find if you’re if you’re in that, in that, that situation with your social, closed pros got great stuff to check out. And frankly, there are, they’re just a ton of day to day, week to week, month to month benefits for being a close pro member. So it’s cheap, 39 bucks a month, or $199 a year. And you get more of the weirdest beard in real estate, which by the way is trimmed up, I’m looking more like you and the beard department here. I just kind of figured out how to get my hair to look like that. And then I’ll basically be brothers. Yeah.

D.J. Paris 41:06
Well, I still find it so incredibly odd at 46 years old that I have actual blonde hair. I feel like it’s so it’s so weird. And I you know, it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s a it’s a weird, weird life, for sure. But I like both our beards, our beards look good. And, and Chris is just such a great guest on the show. So please, if nothing else, just to support Chris and the clothes go visit the clothes.com. And by the way to subscribe to the clothes Pro. It’s what like a couple of dollars a day at most. It’s less Yeah,

Chris Linsell 41:42
easy, easy. It’s super cheap. I mean, we’ve we kind of thing is it’s really it is really an opportunity for you to for folks, you know, if you’re looking for video training, if you’re looking for checklists, and downloads and social media templates and and boot camps and access to pro coaching on demand. And it really is, it’s a no brainer. So we’d love to see you here at the close. We’d love to see you at the close Pro. And I just love to see. So come follow us come join the communities. And again, DJ, thanks a lot for having me on today. I really, I always look forward to chatting with you, buddy.

D.J. Paris 42:19
Well, us us too. And on behalf of all of our listeners, we think of viewers, we thank Chris for taking time out of his busy day and being a father and a coach and a writer, too, and a real estate agent to take time to share his wisdom and thoughts and observations of the real estate industry. Also, on behalf of Chris and myself, we thank everyone for listening and watching. And please, if you want to help us continue to grow just two quick things, one telephone, there’s got to be another agent, you know that that would love to get to that next level, or just wants to have better information about what’s going on right now in the real estate world. Send them a link to this episode, they can find us at keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done, can be streamed directly there. Of course, you can find us on any Podcast Directory app as well. And then also, if you are listening through some sort of podcast app, whether it’s well now it’s called Apple podcast, formerly iTunes, or if you’re with you know, Google Play or Spotify or Pandora or Gosh, a Stitcher or any of the other podcast delivery systems. Leave us a review. Tell us what you like about the show and tell us what you don’t like we’re okay with that. We want to know that. In fact, in some ways that’s more helpful for us because we continue to improve the show is to is really meant to do nothing other than to help you grow your business. But we need to know what you think. So let us know give us a review. If it’s going to be a one star review, just email me privately instead. And I’m teasing, you can give us a one star review. I think we’ve only had one or two of those. And that seems reasonable to me. But but please let us know what you think of the show and write us let us know what other guests you’d like us to interview. But thank you so much for listening. Thanks, Chris for being on the show and we will see you next time. Thanks, TJ.

Helen Hudson with SafeShowings talks about how she got into real estate and why. Helen describes her experience when she felt unsafe and how this experience made her take actions and create SafeShowings. Next, Helen describes how the SafeShowing app works and the protocol they use to keep their clients safe. Helen describes how the app matches previous experience and how this feature help other realtors who will work with the same clients in the future. Last, Helen talks about the packages they offer to realtors and the new feature they will be adding to the app in the second quarter of this year.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

SafeSHowings can be reached at 800-268-8437 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I am your guide and host through the show and in just a moment we’re going to be speaking with Helen Hudson from safe showings.com. Before we get to Helen, a couple of quick announcements first, thank you as always for continuing to listen and support our show. We couldn’t do it without you, the audience. We are so thrilled to be able to serve you please let us know how we’re doing. The best way you could do that is to leave us a review. So whatever podcast app you might be listening to us on. If you are listening via podcast app, like iTunes, which is now called Apple podcasts, Google Play Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora, etc. Leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. If you’re not listening through a podcast app, consider subscribing to us through a podcast app. Obviously, it’s free. Just go to any podcast app search for keeping it real. Now there’s a few podcasts named keeping it real. But look for the one that has my name on it, DJ Paris, hit that subscribe button. And the last thing to do is please tell a friend about our show. The best way that you can help us grow is by telling other real estate professionals about what we do here and how we can help them grow their business. So shoot them over to our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Or just like I said haven’t pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real, hit that subscribe button. Thanks for your continued support. And we’re so thrilled to be able to bring you this important conversation today around safety. It’s something we don’t talk enough about. So we brought on Helen from safe showings to talk exclusively about what agents can do to be safe out there. And now on to our interview with Helen Hudson.

Today on the show we have Helen Hudson from satan showing.com. Let me tell you a little bit about Helen. When Helen chose to become a real estate professional she knew it was the right move. She brought with her and extensive sales and management background as well as tools that translated well into her real estate world. Now throughout Helens sales career she has attributed her success to earning business by providing the best value for each and every client. Her clients say that she goes above and beyond expectations. Now she has created the safe showings app after escaping a terrifying incident while working alone as a realtor and the conversation around safety is something that we on this podcast have not explored extensively. So we are thrilled to welcome Helen Hudson from safe showings.com here on the podcast today. Hello and welcome.

Helen Hudson 4:14
Thank you. I’m honored to be here and share my passion for realtors across the country and for realtor safety. Well, I’ll

D.J. Paris 4:22
tell you, Helen, I actually met very briefly at the NAR conference in San Diego this past fall. And I will tell you sort of just to peel back the curtain just a little bit for our audience. We really at this point that we’ve done 300 And some episodes and we’re fortunate enough to really not have to look for guests anymore. We just get every day we get hit with by publicists or different realtors who say Oh, you should interview this person or, you know lots of different opportunities there. So we rarely go out and look for anyone to be on the show. But when we were when I was walking around the expo hall with my girlfriend And we came across safe showings and I said, Well, what’s that about? You know, that’s interesting. And we talked to Helen. And I said, Oh, my gosh, you have to be on our show, because we don’t talk about this. And very few, I feel like it doesn’t get talked about enough. So we are really excited to have a conversation around safety. This, of course, Helen is a Top Producing agent as well. But this idea that as an agent, you saw a need in the marketplace for more, you know, oversight and just you know, overall well being of agents as they you know, sometimes are working internet leads where they haven’t met anyone yet. But before we get to, let’s save showing says I’d love to just hear your story. How did you get into real estate and why?

Helen Hudson 5:41
Yes, that’s a great question. I majored in interior design and college. I graduated in 86. And, you know, I’ve dabbled a little bit in commercial design and residential design. And then I found myself doing something totally different transportation and logistics fast forward to almost five years ago, it was a bucket list. I’m from South Carolina, but I’ve always loved Charleston, like millions of others, but I wanted to live in Charleston, South Carolina, and I chose to

D.J. Paris 6:11
leave doesn’t buy. Everybody wants. It is it is i It’s like Charleston, Nashville, Austin, a Portland or maybe not Portland as much anymore. But but you know, gosh, everybody who I apologize for interrupting you. But every time I hear the word Charleston, if I’m in a group of people, everyone just goes, Oh, my God, I love Charleston. Yes. Of course, he wanted to live there. It’s amazing.

Helen Hudson 6:39
You know, I’ve always been fascinated with real estate. And I left a career with companies like UPS, I was in sales. I never drove a truck. But I was in sales for UPS and companies like that, and wanted to try something new. I got my license, pass that test on the first try, which was a miracle. Because it is hard when people laugh about it, but it’s tough. I started out working for a local firm here and then joined the team six months later. So that’s kind of my story. I’ve had my license this coming summer will be for five years.

D.J. Paris 7:14
Wow. And what was your experience? You know, when you first started out, as as a realtor, you know, were there. I know, You’ve had some safety, issue concerns and issues. But, you know, Todd, let’s talk about that experience. Because again, I’m a guy. I don’t, I live in a very dangerous city. And in fact, the neighborhood I live in here in Chicago. Unfortunately, it’s a very nice neighborhood, actually, but because it’s a very nice neighborhood. There’s a lot of crime, we’ve actually had a tremendous it’s I’m laughing only because I just moved to this area. And there’s nothing to laugh about. But just sort of the irony of me live moving into this like dream place. Unfortunately, our we’ve had an increase in carjackings a significant increase, it’s actually made the news here in Chicago. So it’s a huge bummer for all of us that just moved into this this wonderful new development. But it’s even a concern for myself now, where I as a real estate professional, I’m not really out there working with with customers. So I’m not out there really meeting people at odd hours. However, I work at a firm with 800 agents who are constantly thinking about safety. And now that I live in an area where there is some some additional crime that that wasn’t there prior, especially carjackings, you know, even myself who really just sits at a desk all day, but I really sort of think about like, okay, at night, if I’m walking to the grocery store, or a drugstore, you know, I have to really just think about it a little bit before I before I move out. And so, I’m so glad we’re having a conversation around safety, but what brought you you know, tell us talk about that experience as an agent, you know, did you did you find yourself in situations that felt unsafe, you know, on a regular basis?

Helen Hudson 9:01
Yes. Right. In the beginning, we have pretty good training for realtors, I’m sure you’ve probably heard some other stories, we’re taught to follow your intuition. Bring your buyer into the office or meet with the seller, do a listing appointment, bring a friend whatever, we’re giving good safety given good safety tips. And if you feel unsafe, you know, be sure you let others know where you’re going to be. And my background right out of college managed apartments and I was kind of used to a process in place where we were taught you can’t show an empty apartment without surrendering a driver’s license. That’s that was our safety protocol. So when I you know got back into a career and started real estate it I have to admit it’s been a while since I’ve met with stranger so one so that feeling of meeting a new person. I don’t know that a buyer I don’t know their background and being new in the business. A my my group of people I’m working with are usually internet leads, going to a property that might be in an area I’m not comfortable with. And kind of new and needing business you you are vulnerable, you’re you’re meeting people in a place that’s different that you’ve never met before you don’t know who they’re going to bring with them. And you don’t want your mind to get paranoid. But there’s a truth to that as a new realtor, you are going to sometimes experience situations where your intuition tells you this doesn’t feel right. And that’s kind of early on, I had some of those experiences, because I was working a lot of open houses alone, I probably did 50 Open Houses my first year. And then fast forward to when I joined the team, I was getting more volume of leads and my sales were going up. And it was a fast paced environment. But I let my guard down. I cared more about the sale than the safety. And that’s where my story begins.

D.J. Paris 11:00
Yeah, I think that’s a very common experience, right? Especially working leads that aren’t always and not that sphere of influence leads, I mean, it’s a safe situation, but certainly seems to be less concern about safety, if it’s, your best friend says, oh, friend wants to meet with you. You know, of course, you still want to consider safety there. But when you’re working internet leads, in particular. I mean, anyone can fill out a form right on a website, and even if that person is vetted, you know, doesn’t necessarily mean that that they’re safe. So I imagine that that you know, and again, real estate’s done oftentimes nights and nights and weekends. So that’s the other thing is, it’s sometimes you know, done at a time when not as many people are around. So if a crime wants to be committed, you know, it probably makes sense to do it at a time when, when it’s a little darker out. And so that’s when realtors are out showing and working with clients. And so it is scary. And now everything’s so virtual, that oftentimes, you know, when working those types of leads, the first time you might meet that person is at the showing. And that’s yeah, in your your point is is great about intuition. But unfortunately, intuition doesn’t solve for everything, right. It’s like, you know, the best criminals in the world. Don’t let people know they’re criminals, right. So sometimes it’s obvious. And other times, of course, it wouldn’t be which of course, you saw as an opportunity to build, you know, maybe a more structured sort of platform to help with safety. So tell us about sort of your experiences with with safety. You mentioned where your story began. But I know you had a pretty harrowing experience that that really caused you to rethink, and start to develop your own your own tool to help with that. Yes.

Helen Hudson 12:52
Four years ago, this coming March, I had received an internet lead to meet with a buyer, I set the appointment for Saturday at two. And I drove up to the neighborhood early as we’re taught to do some meal of the day. But when I drove into the neighborhood, the hair on the back of my neck stood up, it just didn’t feel right. That was really homes nearby that just didn’t feel comfortable. But I parked my car, wait for the buyer to arrive, he arrives, we go in the home, I left the door open. We’re taught to do that from a safety standpoint. And this was a very small house, no driveway. He goes to the back of the house, I kind of stand towards the front. And my guard was up because I was already nervous. And he got on his cell phone. A minute later a truck drove up to man jump on the porch. And my heart stopped I thought oh my god. Nobody knows where I am or who I’m with. That’s immediately what I felt. But thankfully I was given a second chance they weren’t there to harm me I can tell the rest of the story. They saw the realtor magnet on my car they saw the for sale sign they saw that the door was open and they thought it was an open house but I tried to gain regain my composure I gave him my card I told him I was working with the buyer and that they could call me for an appointment but I’ll never forget that feeling of fear knowing you could have gone differently

D.J. Paris 14:17
I think all of our listeners can can sort of as you were explaining that story probably relived the feelings they might have if that same situation happened where you know the person you don’t know who’s your your possible client walks to the back of a home you know sort of by themselves jumps on their phone a minute later randomly in the two o’clock on a on a random weekday to other guys show up? Yeah, that I would have put I would have had that exact same reaction is oh, I’m this place is either being robbed or someone’s these two people are here to hurt me or who are God Only Knows. That is a terrifying experience. And thank goodness, you know, it sort of, you know, was was not that but but it certainly could have been. And I live in Chicago, you know, we have a very violent city here. And it’s, it’s always just easy to forget because I think, you know, for maybe some of our audience who might be listening who think, oh, that that doesn’t really happen to me. But of course it can, and it can happen to anyone, and something to really think about, and most brokerages, at least here in Chicago, don’t. And I’m only aware because I work with a lot of different brokerages, we talk about it, very few of them have any sort of real safety technology. Of course, there is safety technology, but firms typically aren’t most of the firms I work with, aren’t giving that to their brokers. So this is something that is really, really important, especially now, when you know a lot of people are out of work and crime is up and you know, the pandemic has really changed things people are, you know, maybe more agitated. And then then they were so let’s tell me about how you started to develop safe showings and yeah, and what it’s for

Helen Hudson 16:19
perfect. That situation caused me to think about my own personal safety differently. I was more focused on the sale than my safety. And I know I was given a second chance. Nar tells us that 38% of realtors have feared for their safety. And when I’ve traveled I’ve traveled for two years prior to the pandemic, to different shows events in conferences in New York conferences and local ones. And I can’t tell you how many people came up to me to share their story. So there is a valid problem. And after that situation happened, I did my own research, TJ, I went home and I looked and I Googled simple Google search, I wanted to know am I alone, I found out that over 200 realtors have been murdered in the last decade. I even created a binder that has their stories in it and their pictures. And that’s my why I knew that I was given a second chance they were not. And first thing I had to do is do you know it I wanted to find is there a solution out there that meets the needs I’m looking for as a realtor, I wanted to make sure every buyer and seller knows that I have a protocol for safety. Also wanted to conquer the fear. I felt that day when I said nobody knows where I am, or who I’m with. And that led me to do about six months of research on the NIR side under safety resources. I looked at the tools to see if I can find a tool that for safety that I could use.

D.J. Paris 17:46
And you weren’t able to find one that satisfied your your needs and requirements. And by the way, just back to that that statistic, about 38% of realtors have felt unsafe. I feel like that’s probably a low number. And I bet if that was rerun, today, especially focused on I would love to hear specifically what percentage of men have gone through that experience of feeling unsafe, versus women. And I would bet you that number is wildly different. I would just assume we know more crime is perpetrated on women more violent crime in particular. And and sexual crime and all sorts of terrible things. And so this this is not obviously a product just for women’s safety, obviously. But that 38% does actually seem low to me. I bet it’s much higher than that.

Helen Hudson 18:37
I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t doubt it. And one thing that I would share with you, too, is the most recent ones, the ones that I’ve researched, it’s ironic. And I think it’s not a coincidence, but 16 images of faces that I’ve read their stories about half of men and half are women. So that’s probably a surprise to the listeners. It’s not. So it’s not just women, it when you look at the ratio of the ones that I can find their stories and print those images out, it’s half half men and half women well.

D.J. Paris 19:10
And the biggest mistake I make when I’m talking about where I live in such a wonderful area of Chicago, the biggest mistake I make at night when walking to there’s a target right downstairs and CVS and a Walgreens really close. The biggest mistake I make is I’m a guy I’m fine. And with my girlfriend, who lives with me also is going I’m like hey, let’s you know I actually treat it totally differently. And that is a mistake because I think Oh, I’m fine i Because I haven’t ever been attacked, and neither has she and I just assume well, she’s more vulnerable. No, she’s really not she she might be physically not as adept, as strong as I am because of you know, just genetics and, and things and you know, but that being said, doesn’t mean somebody couldn’t in fact it’s probably easier to get me in certain ways, because I’m not thinking about it. You know, thankfully, you know, I think women are a bit more tuned to that. But that’s still not enough coverage, right? Like there still needs to be tools in place to have a protocol so that it’s not left up to chance, or just intuition. So tell us about like, what, what does safe showings do and and, you know, how does it help increase somebody’s personal safety,

Helen Hudson 20:34
I’d love to share that what happens, we teach realtors to think about their safety from the moment they set the appointment, whether it’s a buyer or a seller or listing appointment, you’re in the safety of your office, and we are working more with technology not meeting people at an office. So you’re on the phone, you’re setting the appointment, you have their name and their their phone number, and you’ve confirmed the date and the time you’re going to show the property or meet them for a listing appointment. While you’re on the phone. You tell them hey, I care about safety. It’s just the world we live in, I use a safety app called Safe showings. And before I meet with anyone and go inside a property, I like to take a photo it’s captured in our app. By telling people before you meet with them, you’re gonna deter crime because criminals number one fear is getting caught not the punishment for their crime. It’s like a doorbell camera, they know there’s a risk associated with cameras so they avoid those they look for easy targets. So once you have told the person that you use a safety product, after you hang up the phone, you’ve set the appointment, you can use our app and press a button that says Create showing and the timer starts. The next thing our app will say, Who are you meeting with I start typing in your name through my contacts, and your informations uploaded. That’s the key component that deters crime and helps us if there’s crime committed catch the criminal because we got we have it in the app. And then when you get to the property, and you drive up early, when they arrived, that’s when you say, hey, let’s just go ahead and take that photo. And you can do a group shot with them. But get it before you go in the home. The timer’s running our timers is our app is so easy to use. If you can press buttons, you can use it but it starts at 45 minutes, you reset the timer because if you’re using the app, the way we teach, you’re not working with the criminal, you reset the timer. But if you forget, it’ll remind you at five minutes to reset your timer. If you have four properties, you reset the time or drive to the next property, street by street and row by road it updates you don’t ever have to key in the address. So your second showing when you put the car in park, it saves that address, it stores all the data inside the app. If for some reason you are attacked and the phone is destroyed. As long as you follow the process, your three emergency contacts will be sent the last location of the phone in that example, who you’re with, because you put that in before you create after you create the showing, and then an image of their face if you took a photo of their face.

D.J. Paris 23:08
And so you don’t ask them for an image ahead of time, because they could send you a fake image. So the idea is you prep them ahead of time on the phone say hey, just so you know, when you arrive. This might seem you know, a bit unusual if you’re working with other realtors, but it’s really important that we maximize each other’s safety. So I’m going to take a picture, you know of you should just be aware of that. It’s just for my own internal use. In case you know why you would even have to say why. But I think people would understand that. So you take a picture, you set the timer, and you also have inputted the locations of where you’re going and when into the system. So it’s scheduled.

Helen Hudson 23:50
No actually you don’t wait. It’s not climbing. It knows exactly you don’t have to key in anything. It’s it’s pushing buttons. As soon as I drive up to that property address, it knows exactly where I am, it’s in the top, top left corner of our app and an image of your face will be there if we take that photo. And if you’re not comfortable with the photo of the face, you can use the app any way you choose. We just know that’s the best way to deter crime if you want to get an image of the house read or their license plate or their driver’s license, somethings better than nothing. But the way to maximize and deter crime is to be in control. And we’ve had roundtables, discussions with realtors about the image and you know when you think about it, every one of us is on social media your faces out there, your if you’re going by doorbell cameras, your images out there public buildings, you know, airports and ATMs and all those places someone shouldn’t be upset about getting a photo taken. If they are it could be what saves your life. You want to work with buyers and sellers that are genuine and understand and respect you for caring about safety.

D.J. Paris 25:01
Yeah, that’s a really good point. So the photo itself is almost in a sense a way to self select out somebody who doesn’t want to be caught. And of course, that doesn’t ensure, of course, that the person wouldn’t agree to that. But the idea is that most criminals go well, I don’t really want a picture uploaded to the cloud of somebody that I’m about to attack or crime I’m about to commit. So, so it’s kind of like to use kind of an older example, it’ll show you my age, when I first moved to Chicago, I do get a kick out of this, I used to have a club, if you remember the club was in was a device that you would put in your steering wheel. And it would extend it was kind of this long, if you don’t know what it is Google it, you’d probably look pretty silly. And this was when cars didn’t have as sophisticated of, of anti theft devices. But it was a visual cue. Because people would say to me, you know, if somebody wants to cut through that, they can cut through it, they can they can get through that. And I would say, well, that’s not why it’s there. The reason it’s there is because it’s, it’s it’s something that a criminal who might want to break into my car, we’ll just visually see and go, I don’t want to deal with that. And they’re gonna move on to their next car. And so this, this is a very a more modern version of the club in a sense, because it’s, it’s something that a person who is a criminal, who’s premeditating, a crime is going to say, well, I don’t I don’t want somebody’s going to take my picture. So that it didn’t have itself, it seems like a subtle thing. But it’s actually a really, really powerful idea. And I’m glad we’re sort of spending some time on that. Because it really is a very important piece is does it ensure safety? Of course not. But somebody who’s going to create a crime does not want anyone to know that they were at a particular location at a particular time. And they certainly don’t want a photo of themselves. And you know, all of that. So that makes perfect sense. So all you have to do you go to you open the app, it starts tracking via GPS, where you’re going, it knows when you park, it knows the locations of where you’re going and where you’ve been. And then let’s say the phone does get destroyed. How does the system know, to then contact? You know, they’re the contacts that the safety contacts that are listed? What happens in that scenario, where if the timer ends? How does the realtor well, before before the phone getting destroyed? Sorry, I’m kind of jumping around. But let’s say, how does the app know that the purse that the realtor is safe? Like I know in a Tesla car, for example, if you want to use the auto driving every 10 seconds, you have to tap the steering wheel. So Tesla’s like, goes, well, we’re pretty sure you’re not asleep. If you’re tapping the the thing every 10 seconds, obviously, your app wouldn’t wouldn’t require that much work. But can you talk a little bit about how does the app know that the realtor is seemingly safe at that moment?

Helen Hudson 28:06
Yes, everything’s driven couple of things. When you register for our app, it’s a one step process, you’re going to enter your information, your three emergency contacts, I highly recommend you pick people that love you, and will respond. And we make you put three because everyone can get distracted. Remember, our timer starts at 45 minutes, most people can get in and out of one property and 20. So you’re probably not going to accidentally call for help unnecessarily. And again, if you’re using the app, the way we teach, you’ve already deterred criminal behavior. People, as you say, DJ, then the criminal has a mug shot, the last thing they want is to be caught on film, they’re gonna go work with someone that doesn’t have a process. So that timer started. Let’s say you had three properties who got distracted, we remind you when it gets to five minutes, are you safe, reset your timer. If you ignore that, and that timer runs out, and you don’t press in timer, we’re going to send an alert to your three emergency contacts of your exact location, who you’re with an image of their face. If you’re in trouble, like I was four and a half years ago, I would have pressed the emergency alarm button, it doesn’t take 45 seconds, 10 seconds that calls 911. And it sends your three emergency contacts, your exact location, who you’re with, and an image of their face or whatever you take. Remember, when you’re taking a photo, if it’s a squirrel or a tree, that’s what we’re gonna see. And that’s what the authorities would see. That’s why we encourage it to be the face if there’s a crime committed, we want to catch the criminal. And as you mentioned a minute ago, if the phone is destroyed, everything on our app goes to our cyber secure cloud. So when that funds destroyed your three emergency contacts as long as you started the app, and you put who you’re going to be meeting with we teach to do that before we get out of the safety of your car. The three emergency contacts will send be sent the last location of the phone and who you’re with the criminal? And yeah, and the image if you were able to take one. So if you were able to crop that image, you’ll see it.

D.J. Paris 30:10
Yeah. Because if the phone’s destroyed, the app with the timer would still be running in the cloud, it would it would expire. And then it would be like, okay, something’s wrong, or we think something might be wrong. And we’re going to notify the contacts and possibly the 911 as well. Quick question do you recommend? So if I, if I put my three contacts in, and then I’m using the tool, and I’m using it, you know, every day or several days a week? I know that and of course, you would want to have told told your contacts ahead of time? Oh, by the way, you are my safety contact? Do they do the contacts themselves also need the app on their device?

Helen Hudson 30:50
Know, what happens is when the timer runs out, and you’re exactly right, definitely tell your three emergency contacts. It should be some a friend, a family member, somebody you know, that would care. And what they’re going to see when the timer runs out. So text message goes to their cell phone, in the first part of it’ll explain there could be a problem, Helen hasn’t responded she’s showing property. This part under that will be an image a 3d image of the property, the exact address where I am, where the phone is, who I’m with the buyers name, or the selling molester, listing, appointment person’s name, and an image that I took so of their face, hopefully.

D.J. Paris 31:32
Yeah, that’s great. I’m what I was, what I’m curious about is, you know, telling your, your contacts, once that they’re part of the safety thing, I almost wonder if the realtor, again, this has a lot to do each time you do a show, and but maybe having, you know, the realtor letting those people know, hey, just so you know, today I’m out of showing. So just you know, if you don’t mind, keep your eye on on your phone. Obviously, you might not have to say that every single time. But, you know, I think it’s it’s not as you know, it would probably behoove the subscribers to shape safe showings to really consistently remind those three contacts. Oh, by the way, you know, you’re still on my three contact list. I’m still doing showings. And you know, just so you know, today I have I have some showings. And I know that sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn’t. But I would, I’m just curious how you recommend consistently reminding those, those safety contacts to know that, you know, just you know, you’re still my safety contact?

Helen Hudson 32:37
Yeah, it’s funny, you bring that up. You can imagine when I went through, working with developers to create this, every step of the app is my idea. And it’s pushing buttons, I want it to be super simple. So I have my sister as my top contact, she calls me every day. Little time, she always checks on me, she knows that it was part of the testing process. So she would get a lot alerts. And I’d say they will send me back what you saw. And it’s really cool. Because what they see is the images, the image of the house or the condominium, the person you’re with whatever you took a picture of sometimes I did some funny pictures. But you know, it is important to pick people that care. The other thing I want to point out about our app that’s unique is when you end a showing, at the very end, you’re in the safety of your privacy of your car, it was a great day, whatever. Just like Uber and Lyft, our app prompts you to write how you felt working with the buyer or the seller from a safety standpoint. And the intent for this is for us as an industry to help spread safety across the country. So for example, I’m working with you in Chicago, you and your wife or your girlfriend, and we look at properties, you’re buying somewhere and and I live in your market and then you go works, you know, I’m using safe showings, I’ve got your photo of you and your girlfriend, you’re in my safe showing that you go to Texas and you both want to go look at other properties. I’ve got you in the system. So hopefully the agent in Texas is going to say the same thing. Hey, TJ, I look forward to meeting you Saturday at two I just want you know, we care about safety. Our association requires us to use safe showings. It’s a realtor safety app. All you have to do is get a photo of every one we allow in a home. And then when you’re probably going to interrupt say I know about that app because I work with some other Realtor in Illinois and they were using the same one I’m probably in the system. While this other person in Texas is in Texas and setting the appointment they can press Create showing, put your phone number in touch your phone number, it goes in the app and your photo of the two of you will show up and you’ll hopefully have five star rating because you’re deterring crime if you do this, but if I only gave you one star just like Uber and Lyft you always have to give one there’s a note section where I could put call me I had a situation that was really strange. I want to explore I’ll tell you what happened. So you can be safe. So that’s our vision is to spread safety across the globe.

D.J. Paris 35:08
So it matches previous experiences. And it matches by the the lead or the clients name or by the phone number. Everything, right? That’s right, because there’s a million John Smith’s phone numbers are unique. So

Helen Hudson 35:26
Gotcha. And remember, we only we don’t we have a Privacy Policy and Terms and Conditions, we don’t share any other pieces of information with each other. It’s only that last step, just like Uber and Lyft, the five star rating, and its intent is only to help us as an industry deter crime for each other.

D.J. Paris 35:45
Why that is such a great addition, I didn’t even think about that sort of feature. But of course that’s needed. Wow, that’s wonderful. And so how does it work for for agents that are interested? Is this a subscription model? Is it how does how does the cost work?

Helen Hudson 36:03
We have a couple of different things. And we’re excited to announce probably in the second quarter, a new enhancement, a background check feature. Our first app, we rolled out a safe showings for individuals and it’s in the app store, it’s $4.99 Less than a cup of coffee per month, or 4999 per year for you to be able to take care of safety. The other option is enterprise pricing. Those are four groups, you know, 50 or more, it could be a team or brokerage Association, Estate Association MLS, you name it anytime there’s a group that saves showings enterprise. And we we look at individual opportunities and determine what the pricing will be. And then save showings enterprise plus will be the the app with the most features that will have the facial recognition API just like we have. And also the background check.

D.J. Paris 36:58
So the background check will do like a criminal check. I’m guessing Yes,

Helen Hudson 37:03
it will be driven by reverse lookup of the phone number, and just give the basic information.

D.J. Paris 37:10
Oh, so the so the person does not have to approve the criminal background check, because you’re just using publicly accessible information based on phone number? Ah, that’s interesting, because I was thinking okay, well, it’s a criminal going to say I agree to a background check. Of course they wouldn’t. But that would also be a deterrent, but not a good enough as determined to be met matching with something where they don’t have to. Boy, that’s such a great idea. So you plan on that feature rolling out in the second quarter. And I mean, I mean, look what we’re talking about $5 a month, like, that is a nothing charge, you know, it meaning that is nobody misses $5 a month, despite whatever income level you’re at, and you can’t put a price on safety anyway. But even if it was $100 a month, it would be worth it, or more. But for $5 a month, this is really a no brainer. I mean, it’s just there’s no barrier, there’s no cost barrier to entry, it’s it’s not going to impact someone’s bottom line, to any sizable degree. On oh, by the way, it might just save their life, as you mentioned. So really, you’ve made this what I love is you’ve made this so easy. And not just because the app is easy to use, but you’ve made the price point really accessible for us. And really brand new realtors are the ones that likely have the least amount of income to invest in things like safety, they’re trying to build their business, they also have the least amount of experience. So they aren’t always aware of, you know, some of the dangers that might exist. So for newly licensed agents, this to me is this is a must. It’s an absolute no brainer. And not just for newly licensed agents. Of course, everyone should do this. But newly licensed agents, you know, oftentimes some of the software that exists to help them grow their business is cost prohibitive. Certain see lead, lead, but purchasing leads, you know, CRMs oftentimes tend to be costly. This is a absolute, I mean, it’s it’s less than half of your Netflix subscription, you know, and, and Netflix isn’t gonna Yeah, Netflix isn’t going to save your life. This actually is a real no brainer. And quite frankly, I would hope that down the road, like the National Association of Realtors, or Oregon local associations, wood and it sounds like some of them have integrated this directly into and provide this to all members. I know I will be very curious to work to check with our association here, which I do some work on some committees to find out you know what, why they haven’t integrated safe showings and it would be very cool if National Association Realtors says oh by the way, 1.6 million realtors out there now Every one has this, which I

Helen Hudson 40:01
would love it. Just so you know we over a million realtors have access to our app meaning we have partnerships with several States Women’s Council group, it’s in your area, your local associations in Illinois, but all across the country in Texas all over their certain states we aren’t, we haven’t yet partnered with but we, we checked recently, we have a little over 400,000 downloads. So we’re growing, and it’s because of our passion. I’m here to help. I’m living my purpose. God has a sense of humor, I never thought of the technology and an app. Because I’m not good with technology necessarily. I just had an idea that was put in front of me, and I knew that there’s a problem to solve, especially now our world’s not getting any safer.

D.J. Paris 40:54
And isn’t it amazing that no one had built this before you did, right? Like, I’m sure there’s other apps and other safety, you know, style apps, but not ones with this specific feature set. And isn’t that amazing? Right. And so thank goodness, you came along, and said, Oh, I can get that belt, I can I can do that. Even though you’re you’re not coding it yourself. So I applaud you for doing that work. And, and really, making it so easy and accessible to everyone. You know, we we have a lot of, you know, realtors are bombarded with different software product providers, or different pieces of technology. And, and it is often like, oh my gosh, there’s 27 Different CRMs out there, which one do I choose? And again, they tend to be quite costly. So it’s like, I really do have to do my research. And I don’t have time to, you know, this is like, just download it and subscribe. And I’m assuming it’s a cancel anytime scenario anyway, because it’s on the App Store. So there’s really not much riskier, you know, and, and again, for less than Well, it’s about the price of a cup of coffee, I guess. You know, maybe it’s a slightly more than a cup of I don’t know, actually, it’s bright.

Helen Hudson 42:12
Green, right?

D.J. Paris 42:13
Yeah. My girlfriend only drinks, just black coffee. So for her, it would be like, Oh, that’s, you know that that would be an expensive cup for her. But for everyone else, that’s nothing five bucks a month. I mean, gosh, total no brainer. I’m going to be recommending all of our agents, of course, get that here at our company, and really encouraging everyone listening and watching right now, to just just add it to your day you add it, you use it, it takes seconds to use each time. It’s not it’s not obtrusive, it will not get in the way or interfere with your ability to build rapport with that client. In fact, odds are if they’re also talking to other agents, this is a differentiator that makes you look professional. And it is in no way a negative. In my opinion, I don’t see any any reasonable customer having an issue. And if they do well, maybe that’s not the right customer to work with. I don’t see any reasonable, you know, and you know, you just would have to say, Oh, could you lower your mask like they do in the airports? When they look at your ID, could you please lower your mask for a moment. But that’s really all you need to do and snap a picture and keep the app running. Pretty, pretty easy stuff. And by the way, we should mention safe showings. best, best way to learn more about it just go to their website safe showings.com They have links directly to your respective app store, obviously on iTunes and Google Play. It’s it’s there, just search for safe showings. And and download it and use it and subscribe. And it’s a no brainer. And I am so grateful to have met you because again, this is not something as as somebody who number one doesn’t really practice real estate directly, I don’t think about and also as a man I also really don’t think about and so we encourage not not just our listeners who are women, but who anyone who identifies as any gender should absolutely be considering this because, you know, you are oftentimes meeting with people for the first time at a at a property that you may have never been to as well. So there’s a lot of unknowns. There’s a lot of uncertainty and just unfamiliarity, right? You’re you’re probably at a home that maybe you’ve never seen in a neighborhood you’ve maybe never visited and now meeting with somebody who you’ve never met. So this is a great opportunity to do this. And I also think too, I’m curious if you have an opinion about this, if you are meeting with somebody who you haven’t met in person before and your first time you’re going to physically see them is at at the showing, you know, look, we’re all zoom accustom. We’re all we’re all you Is to zoom or some sort of web conferencing. Curious if you have an opinion about having a pre meeting, even if it’s just to say hi, introduce yourself, there’s a lot of reasons to do that, that will help benefit the realtor. As far as report goes, but maybe making sure that that first in person interaction isn’t the first time you’ve at least physically seen the person. So I’m curious if you have any thoughts about scheduling like a quick little, you know, get to know each other on Zoom or something prior to the first showing,

Helen Hudson 45:33
that’s a great idea. I think that’s a any thing we can do to add a layer of protection and to differentiate ourselves from others, as you mentioned, people that are working with us, when they hear that we care about safety, they’re going to see you as confident, and that you’re a person that cares about safety, they’re gonna remember you to when they list their house. So don’t let that be a deterrent. If somebody doesn’t like what you’re offering in terms of safety, it can save your life, if you don’t see him, and it can save you a lot of time. So you don’t want to work with somebody that’s so upset about that. Why would you want to work with somebody that way? So, but no, that’s a great tip, I recommend any level of security you can add, whether it’s FaceTime, you know, quick chat, let’s let’s talk via FaceTime or Zoom might be a little bit more advanced, if it but I could see that happening with the client, you know, that it shows your professional and that you have a protocol that you like to meet people virtually, before you meet them in person. I think everything we do these days can help to save us.

D.J. Paris 46:45
Yeah, and I just couldn’t, I couldn’t encourage more our listeners and our viewers to please just download this app and use it. It’s It’s easy. It’s, it’s, it’s helpful. It’s inexpensive. And as we’ve said many times it might just actually save someone’s life, including yours. And just make sure you continuously remind those contacts, hey, by the way, you’re still on my contact list, you know, so that they know to keep an eye out. But you know, what a wonderful product and a solution here. So for everyone out there who is listening or watching, please go to safe showings.com or pull up, go to your respective App Store, download safe showings, take a chat, take a look at it integrated tell everybody at your office about about this tool. And we will do our best to promote it as well, because we want all of our listeners to keep listening to our show and and if they’re not safe, they might not be able to do that. So we want them we want everybody listening to have a wonderful career in real estate and safety is something that is easily ignored. And let’s just not ignore it going forward. So Helen, thank you so much for being on our podcast, really appreciate it. This has been super helpful. And I’m so glad I got a chance to meet you. So that we that we became aware of this wonderful piece of technology. On behalf of our listeners and viewers, thank you for the work you’re doing to keep Realtors safe. And also thanks for spending time that I know is is you’re very busy. And not it’s probably not easy to find time to be to do these kinds of interviews. So we appreciate it. We thank you. On behalf of Helen and myself, we want to thank all of our listeners and viewers as well for continuing to listen and support our show. The best way you can help us grow at keeping it real podcast is by telling a friend so tell them about safe showing. And also tell them about our podcast. And you know, if there’s an agent in your office that maybe is a little bit more lacks with safety, perfect episode to send to them, send them right over to our website, they can stream not only this episode, but all the ones we’ve ever done. I think we’ve close to 350 episodes now. But every episode we’ve ever done, including this one is they’re keeping it real pod.com Or haven’t pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button. And lastly, please leave us a review in whatever app you might be listening to this podcast through whether it’s iTunes, Google Play Spotify, Pandora, there’s lots of different places you can be listening here. Let us know what you think of the show. It always helps us continue to improve and grow so let leave us a review. But most importantly, tell other agents about safe showings this is this might just again save lives and it does save lives. So thank you so much, Alan for being on our show and we will see everybody on the next episode.

Welcome to another episode of Coaching Moments With Ryan D’Aprile from D’Aprile Properties!

In this episode Ryan thinks it’s a good time to come back to the fundamentals. Ryan discusses why he thinks that agents will be more productive and successful when they show up in the office and the importance of having a proper CRM. Last, Ryan and D.J. discuss the importance of keeping in touch with your sphere of influence and deepening your relationships.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Ryan D’Aprile can be reached at 312.590.6416 and [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
On this episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Welcome to keeping an REO the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show today is our monthly coaching moments with Ryan de April. Now if you’re not familiar with Ryan, or if you’re new to our show, Ryan comes on every month to give our listeners and our viewers a coaching moment and a coaching session. So let me tell you about Ryan Now Ryan de April is a progressive thought leader focused on providing for his agents and his staff at depot properties also Midwest lending as well as Hubbard Street title. Now his strengths are his motivational skills, his coaching style and his dedication to training. Now Gable properties has 14 offices throughout Chicagoland and he’s also in Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan and Florida with hundreds and hundreds of top producers. Now depot properties is a premier real estate brokerage devoted to promoting the brand that of their agents consists and is also consistently ranked as one of Chicago Tribune’s top workplaces and Inc 500 fastest growing companies. Now if you’d like to take your career to the next level, or if you’re just not getting the attention you need from your current firm. Please check out deeper properties visit deep real properties.com You can also see the link to that right in our notes on the podcast here. Welcome once again, Ryan.

Ryan D’Aprile 2:40
Hey, thanks. Happy New Year. Good to be back.

D.J. Paris 2:43
Happy New Year. It’s our first episode of the first coaching moment of the year so

Ryan D’Aprile 2:50
yeah. Have you been busy the new year? Yeah,

D.J. Paris 2:54
we my girlfriend got COVID and this was in December and so it completely towards the end of December just before Christmas. And it completely derailed our our holiday plans. And so we pushed everything a week. And so we just got back from Florida, where we had celebrated the December holidays. So it was actually kind of nice, because it wasn’t as crazy. But yeah, I mean seems like everybody’s getting sick these days.

Ryan D’Aprile 3:20
It is you know a lot of our offices have been empty and whatnot because of the spike that we’ve had. Yeah, so it’s crazy times

D.J. Paris 3:29
Yeah, and I know gosh with and we should also mention and just because we’re doing this live although this episode won’t be released for about a week or week and a half but it is Martin Luther King Day so we should wish everyone a happy MLK Day today and easy thing to to acknowledge and

Ryan D’Aprile 3:46
that’s right yeah, we’re actually close I’m in our office today I’m dressed casual as you could see it companies close today. But I came to get out of the house to to speak with you guys to do with you here.

D.J. Paris 3:56
We appreciate it. So what tell us about you know what your thoughts are? It’s a new year, new year you are you and your your team of coaches are always chatting with with your agents. What do you what are you really talking about in January?

Ryan D’Aprile 4:10
You know, I think it’s a good time to come back to the fundamentals. I had the privilege of meeting with two different teams this morning and working with them and helping them build their business and one of the teams had new agents shadow them one of the new agents joining their team and and you know I had a lot of fun showing this agent why this other particular agent was so wildly successful and and also tell them how incredibly mundane and boring it is that gotten to the top and his keeping them at the top. So I think it’s you know, it’s good time to just kind of cover all those bases, you know, and what it is that it is what it is we do that you know that produces income for us, right as real estate agents and and then So talk about I think, I’ve talked about this before, I think it’s a great message to get back to everybody else is, what are you doing to shake up your routine? And, you know, and and? And how aware of you are You are of your routines? Are you? Are you working from your house every day? Are you going? Are you fortunate enough to work at a real estate brokerage that has offices? Are you getting up and going to the offices and, you know, getting in a professional environment to grow your business and whatnot. So I figured, let’s kind of cover all those bases that works for you.

D.J. Paris 5:28
Yeah, it does. And, you know, I was thinking we were talking offline about working from home, and how I was sort of forced to do it when my girlfriend got sick in December. And then we just got back from Florida, and felt it was responsible to at least take a few days before getting another test just to see if it was okay to return to the office. And I was really fortunate during during COVID, in the sense that I was able to come into the office every day. So I didn’t have a lot of the work at home experience, of course, realtors, you know, even pre COVID, a lot of them work remotely, a lot of them don’t necessarily have offices to go to or they do have offices, they don’t take advantage of them. For example, we’ve got hundreds and hundreds of agents at our firm to and very few of them ever come into our offices. And, you know, I just don’t work well from home. And I’m almost wondering what percentage of people do work well, from home and I there’s a million factors to sort of determine how successful that would be for an individual but, but I just don’t work well, from home, I’m curious if you feel the same way or

Ryan D’Aprile 6:30
No, I mean, I work well. So I have a morning routine that I get up and I’m a five o’clock in the morning and I and I work on my stuff where I don’t have to do have any interaction, right on planning and spreadsheets and stuff like that. But then I’m, I’m in my office by 830 in the morning. You know, so my day starts earlier, but I’m in a professional environment by 830 in the morning, and quite honestly, all of our top producers at our company with the exception of a couple I see them in the office, you know, we have 16 offices or so I see them in the offices regularly. When I walk in, I send an email message to our entire company, I say, I use us, I see the usual suspects in our office, every time I visit, it’s it’s always the top producing real estate agents that are there. And you know, you can get work done. I mean, you can be you can travel, you can be at your kids soccer game, you can be your your kids basketball coaching, and you can multitask and you can, we’re blessed with the technology we have, and you can multitask and get a lot of things done. But you still need, you still have to put yourself out there. And I think putting yourself into that professional mindset that, you know, I’m running a multimillion dollar business as a real estate agent or a loan officer or title or whatever it may be that you are in our real estate industry that you’re doing. And you know, to, to wake up, dress up, show up and go in consistently, four or five times a week to grow your business and work on your business separates, separates you from the pack, quite honestly. And I just think there’s an energy and an aura about it. You know, I truly think that things just come to you easier if you put yourself out there in that professional environment versus you know, you know, working from home five days a week and just kind of, you know, having your license and doing what you’re doing but not really being intentional about what you’re doing. Be more accidental.

D.J. Paris 8:33
Yeah, I think that’s I think that’s right and even just having a morning routine, where as you were saying for yours Your starts with you and you so you’re spending time where it’s quiet in the house, the kids aren’t up maybe yet or hopefully he’s not giving you some a little bit of quiet where you can really reflect on your life, your responsibilities for the day, the week, the month the quarter, and get get some you time. And then that’s compartmentalised. And then it’s okay now I need to go to the office where I’m around this energy of of just getting things done. Because it is it is you’re so right. It really is life is so much about the middle, like learning how to exist in the middle and doing the sort of mundane, not necessarily the most exciting tasks, you know, every single day or every week or month or quarter. It’s usually the little things that win the game the fundamentals, right. So

Ryan D’Aprile 9:26
yeah, yes, it is. And it’s you know, also getting out of that that environment of you know, being alone. Because your mind is a funny thing. And it could play games on you. I mean it literally could people make up stories. Oh, you know, they create dialogues, they’re just not true. And you’ve got a you got to get into an environment where there’s other top producers there. You got to shake it up. You got to stay focused on what’s important. I’m going to this morning, it was it was a great i a message in this. I’ll tell everybody here. So here we are. It’s January, what? 1617 1717. So what’s your goal for the year as a as a as a salesperson, right? And so this particular agents goal is $25 million. And they did about 21 million last year average price points about $300,000 Sold 6565 66 units last year, and had, you know, a newbie shadowing him on his team? And, and I ask them to recite the statistic of what percentage of your network transacts? And do you do recall?

D.J. Paris 10:37
saying, yeah, 16 16%

Ryan D’Aprile 10:40
Yeah, yep. 16%. And so we looked at last year, and it was, it was great, because, you know, here we are two weeks from the previous year. And, and he had 66 transactions. It’s amazing. And in his network in his network, he’s got 436. Now, I’m a little bit off on these numbers here, right. So it’s 436, or 463 was six hours ago. But the point is, is this, all of his sales came from his network. And so I’m just going to grab my calculator here and take 435 times point one 669 transactions, and that’s 65 transactions. Now, here’s the thing, though, this is incredibly important. And, and I coached this team, right after I coached another team. And the other team had somebody have been on our team for about a year. And it showed this other particular person who had the 65 transactions. And in what we call our dashboards and ello, our internal CRM and coaching platform that we’ve created. This particular person who had 60 566 transactions, as of this morning, January 17, you say today is the 17th of six, somebody has contacted 96 of his 436 contacts already,

D.J. Paris 12:06
just this year alone, just this year alone, he’s

Ryan D’Aprile 12:09
on quarterly live flow. I mean, he’s, he’s not a team. He’s got a team member joining, right. He’s showing somebody what he’s doing the previous was a team. So he’s got a new beyond there. And so he said, I’ll do quarterly LIFO. Because there’s just too many transactions. We have transaction managers and marketing coordinators to help agents but still a lot of running around and doing what sweet. He focuses on quarterly, quarterly live flow. And by January, March, by April 1, everybody in his, his dashboard, love heard from him. And then I went to his marketing audit. And

D.J. Paris 12:48
can we pause for just a moment because I want I want to make sure everyone’s hearing this. So he has a, his his sphere of influence, or his contact list is about 400, deep 400 contacts or so?

Ryan D’Aprile 12:59
Yeah, he’s got 700 total, right? Plus, because he’s got a farm in there. He’s got suspects, people that are like he just met, but of his sphere of influence, if you will, he’s going to be in been lifelong. He’s going to communicate with regularly, it’s got 400. And let’s see 440.

D.J. Paris 13:16
And let’s define life flow for any of our new new listeners.

Ryan D’Aprile 13:20
Alright, so you have life flow is networking with your own network. So systematically, reaching out and researching what’s going on with that person in your network and touching base with them, and having dialogue with them about them, not about you not about what you do, just creating a bond creating, you know, a report, that’s what life flow is. Because it’s not what you know, DJ, it’s who you know, it’s who you know. Yeah. So that’s what life flow is. It’s about networking with your own network. Because your network is your net worth, your net worth taken on board. To me, that’s exactly why they No,

D.J. Paris 14:00
it’s, it’s, it’s so it’s so true. And, you know, when Ryan’s talking about, you know, we’re really talking about deepening relationships and demonstrating care and demonstrating that, that you are present and a professional and also paying attention to your clients. And we’ve all had the experience where somebody ends up using another realtor, and we’re like, I thought that person was my friend. Well, they are your friend. But were you staying in touch with them in a way that they knew that they, they could reach out to you and they need help? A lot of times to people go, Oh, maybe I just thought you were too busy. Right? That that comes up too. It’s the I haven’t heard from you. So I went with somebody else, or Well, you seem so busy all the time. I didn’t want to reach out and bother you. So those are

Ryan D’Aprile 14:47
the reality. It’s this I want you to finish my sentence on this one too. Okay. It’s out of sight out of mind. So the next thing we shipped over is to your marketing. And so that team that I was coaching before, had an individual on the team that been in the business for about a year and a half. And this particular individual has about 180 contacts in his network. So we have what we call our marketing audit. Okay, and most CRM should have this, it’s an easy way to see everybody in your, in your dashboard. Okay? And what I want to know is, is Do I have your home address? Do I have your email address, right? Am I socially connected to you? Because if I’m out of sight, out of mind, and that’s what you know, that’s the auto flow. That’s your consistent marketing is how it’s going to happen. So here’s the learning lesson for this for everybody here, listen. So the particular agent who did the 65 transaction, $21 million in business, who had 436 contacts, right, I went to the marketing audit, and he’s missing all her to me, he’s missing 13 addresses out of everything. That’s it. Now, all email addresses offered. Now the other individual in the previous team, right, in the coaching session, had had been in the business for a year and a half, just still learning, right 176 contexts, had only 50. Completed contacts, right. And here’s the difference between doing two, 3 million a year, and somebody doing consistently $21 million a year, $21 million a year. I mean, let’s let’s let’s be real to put you in the top 1% income bracket in the country. It’s it’s big dollars, it’s to be taken seriously. And, and I said to the agents listening, I said, this is what it is, this is how you make your money in this business. This is it’s paying attention to these incredible benchmarks like incredibly important, oh, god data points, do a, where’s DJ live? What’s his email address, and I connected him socially, when was the last time I communicated with him, that’s, you know, that’s in step one, right, and then coming from that comes prospects, right, then you move those over to another category. And we could talk about that later in how you follow up with it. But the true, I think, I mean, the best message to give the listeners here is you are, you are the subject that you are studying. Yeah, you are the subject that you’re studying, and you are tracking your own progress, you should be tracking your own data, you should be holding yourself more accountable than anything else in your life. And if you do that, you know, simply put an hour and a half a day, all the other stuff will come your business will come your clients will come and pay you on autopilot. You know, I tell everybody, I don’t need a coach on how to write a contract. I don’t need to coach you on how to, you know, to negotiate a deal. I mean, there’s the pointers, and there’s tips and tricks, of course, and we could always sharpen our skill set, which is important. But the most important part of it is how are you generating more and more leads, year in year out. And if you do the fundamentals, this begins to snowball, it actually becomes easier. You know, and there are, this is another point I wanted to make to our listeners here. There are some great, you know, producing 10 $12 million real estate agents have been in business for 10 years. But I will argue that they’re $30 million producing agents performing at a 10 to $15 million year, because it’s just coming to them after an overtime, which is great. And maybe that’s where you want to be. But once you get to that structured, that discipline where you treat it like a business and you’re looking at those important data points and and really focus on the fundamentals, that $12 million producer becomes a $36 million producer in a matter of years.

D.J. Paris 18:44
Yeah, I was I was actually doing the math on while you were talking about sort of the producer that you have the $25 million producer who’s already contacted like 96 of his club is a sphere of influence list. And you know, it’s it’s so funny because you look at that giant list and you go oh my gosh, I have 400 names I got so many phone calls, but it’s really not where is this person made on average? If if he did it evenly every day? He did about five to six phone calls a day. That’s why it’s seven total Yeah, totally reasonable.

Ryan D’Aprile 19:18
Yeah, seven a day. And you know what don’t even have to be phone calls. You know, guys, they can be text messages and they can be writing somebody’s Facebook wall doesn’t count but you can instant message them you know, instant message Facebook Messenger, you can use all those and you can have a dialogue. It doesn’t have to be a phone call. But if you consider there’s 20 working days in a month, right? And you take this one student I think everybody here if you’re not at the level you want to be you should be doing this monthly. He’s doing it quarterly it’s seven, seven a day. But he doesn’t miss a day.

D.J. Paris 19:54
Right? Well that’s you know, it’s that’s that’s the you know, eight glasses of water or the Push up or, you know, it’s it’s not fun to drink eight glasses of water a day unless you’re really into water or doing push ups or,

Ryan D’Aprile 20:06
or like Donald’s Diet Coke, and I’m addicted to

D.J. Paris 20:10
I drink Diet Coke as well. But but it is, you know, life is so much about just doing getting yourself to do the mundane and then reaping all the benefits, reaping all the benefits, and you know, these these large giant, you know, luxury homes that that some people get, yes, that may or may not ever happen for you, but you can build a fantastic career selling $300,000 homes 65 of them a year. And you know, by doing all of these, I mean, that’s a wonder You said that’s at the top 1% earner, that’s a top 1% producer in this industry. And it is somebody that is going to have a wonderful life,

Ryan D’Aprile 20:49
wonderful. If you plan properly, and you invest wisely. You’re you’re disciplined in your business, it’s a wonderful, and, and and, you know, this particular agents 3233 years old, and so it’s every price points, 300,000 hours, when he’s 3548, his average price points gonna go to 4,400,000. Right, so that just takes him from 21 to 27. Without even having any more transactions, the reality is, he’s gonna get more referrals and more business. So you know, he’s got a bright future ahead of him. You know, another thing I’d like to touch on with everybody is the importance of recording and having a proper CRM. Yeah. And there’s a lot out there, we have ours, you know, dashboard, corporations, and ellos are our dashboard product that we probably will be taken to market sometime in the near future. But the really, the reason it’s important is I find out one of the most dangerous things that people do in any industry, any, any business out there, where you’re in sales is they write leads on, you know, pamphlets or pieces of paper, and it’s hard to access. And understand, like, I got this very discipline notebook, and this is how I do it. And it works for some, but it doesn’t work for the majority. And the reason why I like it is because another important part when we get out of our network is what, uh, what are all those prospects that you generated in the past year? And when was the last time you followed up with them? And how consistent are you so this particular agent, not the one that I he coached, not the 65 transactions a year, but the other one has been the business for about a year and a half, you know, many prospects he had in there. No 52 lakhs. That’s a lot, right. But then we start auditing, when was last time you contacted these 50. So I’m trying to get everybody’s head that is what you need to be looking at, at a daily basis in a prospect. You know, DJ, you could be somebody in my network, you could be a friend of mine, you are a friend of mine, but you could be somebody in my network that’s not in the real estate business, right for this example, and tell me you’re going to buy a house, but you’re not going to do it at the end of the year, you’re a prospect, and you’re in there. Now I’m staying in flow with you once every two to four weeks casually and keeping you close in mind, I’m not going for the kill, right. So you made soft touches, not touch, you may transact 18 months from now. But if you’re not, in that, if you’re not pulled out of my network, and put in that special category, I run the risk of losing you, and costing myself a significant amount of money, and then repeat business referral business. So it’s, it’s something that needs to be paid attention to by everybody that’s professional in this business. I don’t think it’s given enough phone attention in our industry, I think there’s a lot of other things that get, you know, higher priority in terms of marketing, and social media marketing, and all this other stuff that’s out there, which is all important. But the number one thing, the number one part of your business is the network and the integrity of the data that’s in your CRM for your network. And then how in tune you are with that network.

D.J. Paris 24:03
And it’s, we’re at a perfect time of the year to give a reason for you to call those people it’s, Hey, I just want to up this is a prime example. So I send out holiday cards and you know, just for my friends and family we send out about and this is not a business thing. It’s just that we do for fun, then about 60 or 70. And then we always get about 10 or 15 back you know, it’s most people don’t seem to do them anymore. But but the but most people don’t ever check to see if I had moved and I actually moved. And so I did get a bunch of people that said hey, just out of curiosity, did you ever get my card and I had about five cards that I never got and I’ve been doing holiday cards long enough to know you always ask people did you move but this is a great time to check in with people and check in with your sphere of influence and and say hey, I’m just updating my database because I’m gonna be sending you some stuff throughout the year. Just want to make sure that nothing has changed for you and and it really gives you a reason to pick up the phone and call somebody or to say Send them an email, but great opportunity right now to say, Hey, I’m done putting my marketing plan together, or you don’t have to get into details in my database, make sure if I have to send something to you that it’s going to the right spot, make sure you know, and then you can ask them and start a conversation. Hey, how are things at work? Are you staying safe? You know, are you working from home? Still? What’s going on? And it just starts the conversation. And then yeah, that’s a touch. That’s a great touch.

Ryan D’Aprile 25:22
Yeah, yeah. And, and what also is social media gives you such an insight to what’s going on in people’s lives. You know, and the most important thing to them is speak feeling significant. So you know, you could go to Instagram, feed Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and, you know, take two, three minutes to research a person, you’re, even if they haven’t posted something in seven, eight months, you could use that as a foundation to start the conversation with somebody. That’s why it’s so nothing. Like, I kind of hate social media, right. But But, but I mean, the advantage, it gives me huge, right, and the freedom that it gives me. And I use it probably 90% for researching and developing relationships, and 10% marketing. In fact, I’m not even the person posting on my social media, and somebody else is posting stuff on my Facebook and my Instagram, I don’t even look at it as a marketing tool. I look at it as a extension of my relationship building.

D.J. Paris 26:27
You know, it’s funny, as I think you’re right, and I also was thinking about different service providers. And I was thinking about, like, I’m curious to get your opinion of this, but or to get your experience. So you know, you’re a successful person, you have a lot of service professionals, wanting your business, maybe it’s financial advisor, and attorney, accountant, whatever, lots of different service providers that would love to get some part of your business. And, you know, I don’t almost ever get prospected by other service providers, for I don’t, accountants don’t reach out to me attorneys, or financial advisors don’t reach out to me, maybe I’m on some sort of Do Not Call list that I’m absolutely like, I’m not allowed to be called, but I don’t think so. But I am amazed at how few industries really do a good job of, of what we’re talking about is developing relationships. I mean, the only reason I haven’t switched accountants in 12 years is no one else has ever reached out to me to say, Hey, I could probably do a better job or this is I’d like to do an audit for you. I’m amazed. And so I guess the point I was trying to make is, if you are doing these, these things where you’re staying in contact, you’re caring about your your sphere of influence, you’re paying attention, you’re staying in touch it what’s it’s like that Scott pack book title, it’s never crowded along the extra mile, like it is literally not crowded along the extra mile. No one else is really doing this. So just by doing it half half, right? Or half? Well, you’re gonna be doing more than probably any of your peers. Would you agree?

Ryan D’Aprile 28:02
Yeah, yeah, I do. And also, you know, look, look at yourself, you know, and ask yourself how you do business. So, what I mean by that? So, we said in the show, and I say over and over again, your network is your net worth, right? It’s not who you know, it’s, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. And so I have made it my, my philosophy that I only do business with people I know. And I actually go out of my way, when I have a need to see if there’s somebody that’s in my network, that does it. Because I want people to use me when they have a need. So you know, I have anything from you know, anything that you’ve used i, if you look in the community, in the neighborhood, and from legal, the financial and whatnot, it’s a neighbor. So my met on a soccer field is somebody who’s come friends of mine, because they’re kids friends with my, my child. Some people say I don’t do business with friends. That’s, that’s a, that’s a small, small amount. I do business with friends, I support my friends, I support my family. And I consider my friends, my family. And I consider my network at the most, you know, one of the most important highly, you know, highly.

Usually, as a real estate agent, you’re also consumers, and my am I supporting the people out there that I’m looking to support back.

D.J. Paris 29:43
That’s a good point. I guess I hadn’t really thought of it that way. And that’s a good point. Well, if you expect people to work with you, because they know like and trust you, you should probably look for them as well when you’re needing those kinds of providers. Absolutely.

Ryan D’Aprile 29:57
You know, and look, I’m a 46 year Old man married with three kids. And so I have a life insurance policy. And I have an insurance agent, right for my life insurance that is in my network I have, I have an estate, right, and the last will and a will and all that good stuff. And that’s an estate attorney and I have a businesses and so then I have business attorneys, right. These are all individuals that are in my neighborhood, at Google, and so on and so forth. Right, I completely, you know, a number of years, gutted and remodeled their home, guess what we hired somebody that was a friend of ours in our neighborhood was a local builder. So I just feel I feel very strong. And that’s part of my ethos. That’s how I work. That’s how I want people to work with me, I have to, I have to do the same thing back my network.

D.J. Paris 30:47
Yeah. So once you do once, our listeners, you know, can break down their sphere of influence, and realize what they’re, you know, how often they want to reach out to these people. And then they have some sort of process for doing that daily. What else are you talking to, to your your agents about helping them have a great 2022?

Ryan D’Aprile 31:08
You know, it’s probably, it’s probably 60 70% mindset 30% fundamentals, right. Um, you know, I will do not just for our company, for other companies, right, I’ll do speaking engagements and seminars and coaching sessions. And I tell everybody, you know, the statistics show a week from now you’re gonna forget 97% of the stuff that I told you. And I’m going to give you some very, for our listeners, here, I’m gonna give you some very powerful activities for you to do. And if there were 10 listeners to this call, there’s 10 people in the room that you and I are speaking with, I will say the same thing, I’ll say, eight of you will walk out of here and not do anything with it. And two of you, or less will, it’s a sad truth. So what I’m doing with our agents is I’m constantly messaging this over and over, whether it’s, you know, first thing that first in the morning, email, you know, an office meeting, you know, all company call and messaging the same good old habits over and over again.

D.J. Paris 32:16
Yeah, repetition, right. So you’re, you’re repeating the message, as often as possible about fundamentals. And we all want the big win the big exciting, sexy listing, or the high net worth client, who is buying, you know, the multimillion dollar home with cash or, or, you know, just I want to be in the luxury market, or I want to, and that’s great. But it life is usually about the small wins, and what’s repetitive, right. And you might have one friend who buys the $4 million home with cash, but you probably don’t have 20 friends that’ll do that, right. But you have, the rest of us are buying smaller priced properties. It’s it’s predictable, it’s and all you have to do is make sure that they know you care about him,

Ryan D’Aprile 33:03
I never focus on the price of the transaction. And I’ve never, you know, willed myself to a certain price point. I’ve always made my focus on network, and the business will come. And whatever comes is enough. Yeah, it’s enough. And it works out. You know, it all works out the right time. So you know, it’s like a horse put on the blinders, and get focused on what’s important, and it’s truly networking with your network, business will just come from it, an overwhelming amount of business will come from it, and it will get easier and easier over time. There are people that want to focus just on luxury market, and that’s great. I’m just, you know, I’m not that type of, um, you know, I sell luxury real estate, you know, we got, you know, we sold 1215 $16 million homes in our company, and I was a part of the transactions helping the agents out, but to particular, to target that particular market. I’m not your guy, I think that’s going to come down to essentially a person who has built their brand, their mark their network, over time, a long period of time. And they have a high net worth Rolodex of clients that they worked with over time. And there’s a word that keeps saying over and over again, it’s time, time, time, time. Give yourself time people, you know, it takes time to grow your business. But it comes it comes and if any of you stay focused on the right things it it’s no loss.

D.J. Paris 34:43
And the best part is you don’t have to be in you don’t have to even enjoy doing these tasks, right because I don’t enjoy going to the gym. I don’t enjoy I just got back from the gym. So it’s on my mind. I don’t enjoy much of it. It’s hard. It’s not my thing. It hurts. It’s painful. I’m out of breath. But it works. And all I have to do is go, and I don’t have to like it. It would be great if I did like it. But the truth is I don’t, okay, I don’t. But as long as I go, I get the result. And this is the same thing, if you’re like, I don’t like to pick up the phone. Well, Ryan said, Well, you don’t have to write, you can text, you can, you know, you can do something on social, you can email. But even if you didn’t like calling, you can still make five or six calls a day. And that’s your, I don’t want to do this, but it’s doable. It’s it’s not 200 dials a day, which would be very difficult for people who don’t like making dials, but you don’t have to even like the task, you just have to do it. And if you break it down into small enough chunks, you know, you make it easy to achieve, whether whatever your you know, personal feeling is about that particular task, right?

Ryan D’Aprile 35:47
Yeah, totally. And if you have the right tools and the right technology, you know, it should give you actually that dopamine reward, right. So, you know, our, our, our dashboard, RS Anello product, you know, it gives you many visual cues, from goal setting, to calibrating your dashboard, lead sources value, the temperature, the prospects, where they are in the process, it’s really actually kind of fun once you get into it. Sure. And then going down the line of connecting with your network, that’s the same thing that’s Check, check, check, check check, that will start to release dopamine in you as well, just as much as you know, you see a texter or a like button on your social media is releasing a dopamine, you could do the exact same thing you can, you can train yourself, you really can’t if you’re aware of it, but to get satisfaction and get addicted to that process. Um, but you got to have the right tools and the right product. That’s why we custom created our own product, because we haven’t found one out there in the marketplace that does that does that?

D.J. Paris 36:52
Well, I’m excited to share that with our audience. Once that becomes available to, you know, to the public. And we can, we can go through some demos and check it out and see how what what you built because your perspective on it most. Most CRMs are built by developers. They’re not built by agents. And there’s a lot of CRMs in the field. And some of them are very good. But one that’s built by by you know, an agent, or someone who coaches agents will look probably a bit different, and function a bit differently. Because it is important to feel good about those difficult tasks, you know, and for me, like at the gym, the thing I’m addicted to is the feeling I get as I walk out the door going, I just did something really hard. For me, that was really hard. It was really healthy for me. And I feel proud of myself and I get a dopamine hit just from being. So even if that’s your dopamine hit, right, like so if you go hate picking up the phone, okay, fine, whatever, you don’t love it. But if you do it when you’re done, you are going to be so proud of yourself. And that’s, that’s worth doing.

Unknown Speaker 37:54
That’s it exactly. Well, I

D.J. Paris 37:57
think that’s a great place to sort of wrap for our first session of 2022. Guys, it’s the fundamentals. And Ryan, when we ever whenever Ryan and I talk offline, you know, sometimes we’ll say, gosh, we’re, we’re gonna we’ll go over fundamentals again. And is that boring to the audience? And I was like, Well, I hope not. Because it’s the only thing that’s worked in my life is fundamentals. I mean, once in a while I get lucky here and there in life, sometimes I get unlucky. But the fundamentals really even out the times in between the good luck. And, and it just, it just smooths out the transition and real estate’s a perfect example of, you’re going to have some good luck, you’re gonna have some bad luck, and that is just gonna what that just this is going to happen to you. And then that you can’t really control but you couldn’t, you can certainly control your day to day effort. And if you put it in it’s, it’s not that it’s not that insurmountable of a task, right? Like making seven dials a day, just checking in with your car. That should be fun. It really should be fun.

Ryan D’Aprile 38:55
And yeah, and also to keep in mind it also, hey, audit your dashboard or audit your network. Yeah, how many? How many? How many of your contacts do not have their home address? How are you going to sell their home if you don’t know where they live? Right and like it’s like fundamentals, like you got you got to take care of your own house, you got to take care of your own business. You know, if you want to be at that top level, you got to look at all those all those all that all those data points and make sure it’s cleaned up and it’s ready so that you can you can excel

D.J. Paris 39:30
Yeah, it’s fundamentals when the game so appreciate an auditing and making sure that what you’re doing is actually creating the results you want, which you should know as Ryan said, you know, should know your why like, what why am I doing this if it’s to earn income, okay, fine. If it’s to deepen relationships, okay? Or maybe it’s a lot of different things, but know your why and that’ll help you get through the more difficult daily activities that that, like I know why I go to the gym and it’s not just for the dopamine hit on the way out and that pushes me through the hard parts. And same thing with with all of us know your why. And then just put the blinders on and start, start deepening relationships, if that’s all you got from this was to deepen relationships with the people in your network, you’re going to have an amazing 2022. Even if you aren’t that skilled as a realtor, although you should be, of course you should work on your business and develop those skills. We could talk about it a different time. But even if you just did that your pipeline is going to get full in about, what, six to nine months maybe or even sooner than that. Correct? Yeah, yes. Awesome. Well, Ryan, thank you, on behalf of all of us, we want to thank Ryan, I mean, this is a guy who runs for companies, hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of, of employees, as well as top producers. And he takes time out of his busy busy schedule to come on, we really appreciate it. So if anyone out there is in the Chicagoland area or Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Florida, and is looking for a firm, where the top where the leader is, is, you know, a coach, and they have lots of lots of wonderful support, and help and all these tools to help you grow. And also just to support your brand, and let you build the business you want do properties is really a great, great place to look. So um, check out Gabriel properties.com, you can reach out to Ryan’s team or Ryan directly right through their website, and you can learn more about what they offer. They also has Midwest lending. So if you’re an ello, a loan officer and maybe looking to see what other lending institutions offer, he would love to chat with you about that, as well as Title agents. And then he has a software company, which has a pretty exciting CRM coming out we’ll be talking about shortly. So on behalf of all of the listeners and viewers, Ryan, thank you. And on behalf of Ryan and myself, we want to thank you guys, right, we wouldn’t be doing this without our listeners. We are, gosh, we’re coming up on a million something downloads. I can’t remember the exact number. Awesome. Yeah, thanks. And that’s we’re so grateful. And the reason we do not spend money on advertising either. So we very much appreciate you telling other agents, you meeting our listeners about our show, feel free to shoot them over to our website, keeping it real pod.com. You can download or actually you can download but you can also stream every episode we ever ever done there and leave it please leave us a review. This is the big thing I’m pushing for this year because it’s really good feedback for us. Let us know whatever system you might be listening to this on, whether it’s iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, Google Play, you know, lots of different podcasts or places that listen to podcasts. Let us know what you think of the show. Let us know what you like. And also let us know what you don’t like so we can improve. But anyway, we’ll let Ryan get back to his busy schedule. Ryan thanks again and next coaching moments.

Ryan D’Aprile 42:40
I appreciate it.

Jake Thomas with Compass in New York talks about the beginning of his career in real estate and his transition from the corporate world of luxury apparel. Jake discusses the importance of direct interaction with the customer for him and how this led him into a career in real estate and his feeling of being fulfilled. Jake also shares his advise to other realtors that are struggling at the moment. Next, Jake discusses how he closes a deal every 4th day. Last, Jake describes how he considers that his background in real estate and all the other career paths have contributed to getting him ready for stage performance.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Please follow Jake on Instagram by clicking here.

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
On this episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I’m your guide and host through the show. And in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with New York City top producer Jake Thomas. Before we get to Jake, just a couple of quick announcements. First, thank you. We are so appreciative the entire team here at the podcast zonna. Myself and all the wonderful guests we have, we just always want to say thank you, our numbers continue to grow. And just peek back behind the curtain for a moment. There’s about 1.6 or 1.7 million realtors out there and over 200,000 of them have listened to at least one episode of the show. So we are so grateful that you continue to spread the word and tell other agents about us. Please continue to do that. Just think of one other agent that really could benefit from hearing from top producers like Jake and send them a link to our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done can be streamed there. We also have links to all the major podcast apps there. So you can find us very easily right through keeping it real pod.com. And last, please leave us a review whatever podcast app you might be listening to this show on. Let us know what you think of the show leave us a review that helps us get more visibility in the different podcast directories. It also lets us know what what we do well and what we could do to improve. But enough about us. Let’s get to the main event our interview with Jake Thomas.

Today on the show, Jake Thomas from compass in New York City. Let me tell you about Jake. Now in any business and in any field people are urged to read Sun Tzu’s Art of War I know I’ve read it. And a lot of our listeners of course are familiar with it as well. But this is a means to sort of grasp the competitive nature of every industry and learn the art of winning from start to finish. It’s especially true for the real estate world in Mecca is like New York City where competition is fierce and the stakes couldn’t be higher. What happens though, when your realtor is Marine, a former professional athlete and online personality and an Off Broadway actor? Well, you have our guest today Jake Thomas. Jake’s unique upbringing sets him apart in the comparative residential real estate market of New York City. Now Jake is a renaissance man and a unicorn of sorts in the industry built on promises that are rarely met. Now Jake’s eureka moment came in the winter of 2017 when he was employed at the coveted Ralph Lauren, where he quickly realized that his desire to truly work with people just wasn’t being met. So Jake moved over to the residential real estate first with Cooper and Cooper real estate Manhattan more most recently over to compass and from the get go he’s quickly learn the ins and outs of the business while thriving on a competitiveness in seeing clients. big city dreams match the business while Thrive upside the luxuries of their reality. Now last year in Jake’s absence and amongst the COVID 19 pandemic, Cooper and Cooper posted its highest sales figures in its 17 year history. And since his returning to that Firm A month after month, out all of the previous year’s record setting numbers have been shattered. Jake has been a point man to this effort having already brokered and close 60 transactions in 2021 leading the firm’s monthly sales volume several times now the mixture of both sales and rentals sees Jake doing a deal. This is income audible every four days. In fact, it’s actually every 100 hours, 52 minutes and 53 seconds to be exact. And we know that because he’s that precise because oh yeah, he’s an A Marine and an ex professional athlete. So that’s what he knows is precision and hard work, which makes sense. Because of course, he that is his background, please, this is my most favorite inner intro I’ve ever read. By the way, I’m so excited to have Jake on our show. So please, everyone, before we get to his interview, I want you to follow Jake on Instagram, we’re gonna have a link to this in the show notes as well, but I’ll find them on Instagram at life like Jake again life like Jake, Jake, welcome to the show.

Jake Thomas 5:43
How do you follow that DJ, it’s making me smile and laugh all at once.

D.J. Paris 5:48
I love working on the intros. And I’m so grateful to have you because you have such a storied past. And I think there’s probably not a coincidence between the discipline that it takes to be in the military also in to compete in professional sports. And then to take that sort of skill set into real estate. But I would love to find out how you had also being a Broadway actor, just constantly putting your, you know, an actor, putting yourself out there, you know, auditioning, you know, getting roles, practicing and performing. So it’s, it’s so many skills that combined, I could see how you would be a success in any field. But certainly real estate seems to seems to be a good fit for you. But I’d like to start all the way at the beginning and find out how you got here. Do you mind telling us how you got started? Why real estate and take us all the way back to the beginning?

Jake Thomas 6:42
Yeah, I was, you know, like you talked about being at Ralph Lauren. And that winter. I remember being up in the beautiful Madison Avenue office that we had right up there near the United Street and looking down at all the ants running around on the street and snowy day, and I just wasn’t being fulfilled with my work or by my work at the time, great company, great brand I’m wearing and as we speak, the culture, I grew up with that. What it exudes and what you know, the brand really resonates. With my family’s wanted, I’ve always been always be a part of it. But the work itself that I was doing at the time just wasn’t bringing home. And so I was looking out the window one day, and I was like, that’s where I need to be, it was just a really cool, like I said, you read or like you said eureka moment where I said, I need to be on the street, I need to be where I can be more action oriented, influencing and affecting situations in person. Not from afar, not from a terminal, not via a review of an audit or through data, I need to be, you know, my gift is giving. It’s giving of myself, and it took me to be voided to that to realize that. That’s where I needed to be. And so real estate happened to me the vessel.

D.J. Paris 8:05
It’s interesting, though, because it is a extremely competitive market. Obviously, in New York City, of course, everything’s competitive, but certainly real estate is as well. It’s just a crazy market. Because of the cost, the pricing, the way that rentals are structured is very different from most cities, where oftentimes for our listeners who may or may not be familiar, oftentimes, and I don’t, not in every case, but if you use a realtor, oftentimes you ended up paying the realtor commission if you’re the tenant in like here in Chicago, it works the opposite where the landlord pays the commission. So it is extremely challenging in New York, but everyone’s got to live somewhere. And so I love the fact that you went from having this great sort of corporate job. Prior to a million years ago, when I first got into the, into the working world, I worked with Anheuser Busch, which is another brand that that, you know, despite of what people might think of their product, it is it is sort of the king or it was, you know, the king and so I, I really learned a lot about precision, and how every detail is important. And I’ve learned as I’ve interviewed hundreds of Realtors over the years here that attention to detail is really important. Ralph Lauren is no stranger to that, of course, every single person in this country knows that brand. And so I imagine you probably learned a lot of great just sort of practices and processes in addition to the other, you know, sort of backgrounds you’ve had in the military and professional sports. But when when you made that switch over from, you know, sort of the, the apparel world into into real estate, how did you start because, to me, that would seem so daunting. How like, how do you find clients? How do you How did you do that? So I’m just curious on on how that transition was for you.

Jake Thomas 9:58
Well, it was first Having a sneak out of and don’t say anything to anybody, you know, having to leave work early from from Ralph Lauren, to go to night school at the New York Real Estate Institute to get licensed first, you know, so it was finding the time just to do that. And then, you know, walking into the classroom one evening, the first evening and I was, you know, suited and booted with company attire on and sure, you know, real estate licenses were available to anyone above the age of 18. And you know, this DJ above the age of 18, without felonies on the records, no college degrees, no, not even high school diplomas are required, right, as those are the minimum requirements, 18 years old and no felonies. So there are a myriad of people from all walks of life, ages, everything that come to those courses that take those courses. And I was that was the first thing that I was gassed to walk into the classroom and thinking, Am I in the right place? You know, it’s like, he does not look like I do. She doesn’t look like I do. They none of those people looked like I mean, I was like, I don’t know, if I’m in the right place. I’m just like, okay, just stay with it. Just stay with it. And then Jordan Cooper, one of the cofounders of Cooper and Cooper came in and was guest lecturing, and spoke just so warmly, so confidently. If you’re this kind of a person, if you’re looking for whatever you proceeded all that with, my name is Jordan Cooper. I’m a co founder of Cooper and Cooper, I went to Harvard, study economics, I worked at Goldman Sachs, during this time, I worked on these deals that a lot. And I was like, okay, you’ve got my attention, that, you know, those facts, and then everything else about I’m just exuded, like I said, confidence, and honesty, integrity, and exceptional service, which ended up being the pillars of their firm. And those three things connected with me from the Marine Corps of, you know, our core values being honor, courage and commitment. So there’s a lot of similarities that I saw right away with him. And with their firm to where it seemed like, just that alone was enough to Suevi. But thinking about the action oriented element of it, you know, being a competitor than I am, and being able to see like, okay, literally the difference, being able to give someone what they want, or need or looking for can be determined by whether I can run faster on the street than the, you know, someone else, man put me in that job, right, like being able to be selfless and providing inimitable service to someone else, against a competitor who might be a little lazy on the wheel, or just doesn’t have it in them that day. Put me in that job. Right. So I just started to find all these little edges to me, that were more more assets or more attributes or attractions, you know, like, hearing the daunting 90% washout rate of first year agents in New York City 90%. I was like, Man, that’s all me, right? Like, that’s a marine thing, or, you know, the running to gunfire kind of joke, but like, hearing that immediately made me even just want it that much more.

D.J. Paris 13:10
Yeah. And it’s also true, like, so we have a, there’s a real estate school that that teaches out of out of one of our offices. And so I tend to see the students as they file it, and, and you’re right there is it is a wide berth of different types of people who come to those classes. Some of them, you know, are just investors, they just want to save on commissions, and they’re not going to do traditional realtor stuff, then you have the more sort of people who may be more polished come from sort of that maybe corporate world, and then you have people who are, you know, you know, just trying something new, and it is very, it’s attracts a lot of different types of people. And I suspect, I’ve talked to a lot of people who are in the process of getting their license who have gotten their license. And it’s also a lot of people who go, Well, I used a realtor for buying or selling something. And I was like, Oh, I could do that. Because, you know, there is this, you know, there isn’t a sort of, in Illinois, we have what are called minimum standards of sort of, you know, minimum standard practices. But they’re pretty low. It’s a pretty low bar to hurdle. And so for those that are willing to go that extra mile or to realize that, yeah, there is there is competition here and all you have to do, it’s not that it’s easy. Of course, nothing in life is easy, and it’s worthwhile. But this idea that if I just work a little harder and a little smarter, and I’m, you know, I’m going to be a client’s choice, and understanding that that is absolutely possible. And you know, that competitive nature I’m sure is really keeps you driven but it’s exciting to hear that that the idea that 90% of people fail like excited you because you’re like why I you know, you’re not afraid of failure. Failure is like, just part of the deal, but you’re like I’m just gonna keep getting up and keep going But how was that first year? Was it difficult to find clients? And? And how did you get your name out there?

Jake Thomas 15:07
First, I mean, forget the first year just those first few days, hours, weeks, you know, of coming to terms with myself and I just gave up salary and benefits and like getting through that, that doubt wall that fear filled, scrutinizing doubt wall right that we all have and that is inevitable if you ever really go for it, you know, anyone that’s ever really gone forward, especially on any type of entrepreneurship knows that wall well. And if you don’t, I don’t know, maybe, maybe you’re missed it or you Blaze past that or you haven’t really gone for it, because it’s hard to not see that. And that was tough was first few hours, I’ll just say oh my god, I can’t believe I did this. And I remember I went home that afternoon after I punched out and submitted my resignation. And one of my windows that actually opened up my apartment and blown open and it was like feet of snow. feet of snow in my apartment, like all over the place. Oh, no, I remember my concierges calm like, Hey, man, I think there’s a draft in your place going in there. And I was like, oh, that’s why so it was a very funny little paradox. Maybe, you know, or foreshadowing. And I was like, Is this an omen of some kind? Let’s pull it on. But no, it just it was grunt work. It was conviction, it was just, you got to get those reps. And you got to just keep going back to it, keep going back to keep going back to it and just believe in the purpose, you know, remembering where I came from why I left wife, you know how I felt the way I did when I was there. And what it was that I was after knowing that it wasn’t going to happen in a day. You have to work and struggle and fail and fail and fail and fail until I found it.

D.J. Paris 16:50
Yeah, yeah, it’s boy, I could that was so well said. And you talked about that sort of pit in your stomach I was reading. I can’t remember who said this. And I wish I could. But it was some entrepreneur who’s who’s had a bunch of successful startups and said, If you don’t have a pit in your stomach, when you’re starting something, your goals, probably not big enough that you’re shooting for. And that pit in your stomach. If you don’t want to throw up at least a little bit of the time when you’re trying to figure out whether to go for it or while you’re going for it, then you’re probably not doing it right. So basically, he was saying become friends with that feeling because that feeling is totally normal. It’s totally okay. And you can still persevere despite that, that feeling. I think that feeling gets a lot of people though, I think it stops a lot of people it’s like they don’t realize like, it’s like being in the gym, it’s no fun to do a rep that goes to failure, and I just came from the gym. So I’m thinking about that. And it is no fun for me to to do any exercise that I have to sweat or, you know, you know, I went down for my last deadlift today. And I was like, Oh, I can’t get back up on this last one, which a deadlift is very short x small exercise range of motion is so tiny. It’s not that it’s easy. You know, it’s like, not as challenging as like a full squat, as far as amount of energy it takes, but I couldn’t do it. And I just didn’t want to do it. And I said, Well, I just got to do it anyway. And by doing the work, as you said, you know, putting in the reps, you know, eventually, if you’re doing it the right way you end up getting there. And most people I think they just give up because the reps or maybe they’re boring, or they’re hard, or they just can’t find the discipline to do it. But you obviously have been trained, I imagine in the military discipline is everything and process. Right. So can you talk a little bit about sort of how you pushed through, you know, when you got started having you know, maybe oh my gosh, now I have snow in my place and and maybe I just quit this amazing corporate gig with a huge brand. And, you know, how did you get yourself those that first year or two to keep going? Because you I’m imagining you could have easily Trent, you know, transition back into into that sort of corporate world with your background, but what um, what kept you going, you know, in those those early days

Jake Thomas 19:08
honestly, it was the people. The customers, you know, like, I worked with a great team at Cooper and Cooper, from top to bottom from Jeremy and Jordan, co founding brothers, to everyone on the management staff to the rest of my peers and colleagues. I mean, they’re a boutique firm, a very handpicked, and polished and selected people. So it’s very familial, very cohesive, small unit leadership again, a lot of things that I remembered from from the Marine Corps, so I was really well surrounded and insulated with positivity and encouragement. And that was critical. They never made me feel like I was not going to do it. It was always motivating and you can do this you can do this and just helping and assisting with with whatnot that it was the customers it was my interaction with customers and feeling their needs and doing my best to fulfill Hold their knees. And that satisfaction was what I realized I’d been missing. Previously on the elbow, the days where I would walk to Central Park from, from the Office of Ed Ralph, and spend my lunch on a walk and literally cry. And I’m in tears, like cry, trying to keep sunglasses on, so people can see me. But there were lunches where I would walk in the park. And I can cry, man, because I was like, this cannot be it. This can’t be it, I couldn’t have come this far. stayed alive. This long, not lost all my fingers and eyes. And, of course, you know, This can’t be it. And so remember those days, I’m like, not crying anymore. You know, we’re, we’re here, we left that. And then the more I was working with my customers and hearing their stories, meeting their parents, and feeling the reactions that took place from how relieved many of them were to work with someone who seemed to care, and how much that meant to them who seemed to listen, right? And how much that meant to people. Because clearly, there had been a big void of that. So that that really hit me hard. And I was like, Oh, man. So that was the first well, that I kept going back to. And still, I mean, it’s the well, I keep coming back to him while I still do it.

D.J. Paris 21:18
It’s nice that you know, that that feeds you because I don’t know, oftentimes, when when I have guests on the show, they will talk about the sort of personal interaction and but I don’t know that anyone said it quite quite as elegantly as you just did. And I think that’s really important, because you were talking about having this corporate job where you worked for this amazing company, and and, you know, had this incredible sort of job and but, you know, you didn’t have the direct interaction with the consumer, I’m guessing. Right? You were you were working on the corporate side. And you didn’t get to talk directly to the, you know, the people needing that particular product. Or at least that wasn’t your day to day job. And so this idea of, oh, that’s the part that feeds me, I like going direct to the consumer and saying, I want to help you, you know, one on one, or I want, you know, this most basic need to, you know, shelter, I need to live somewhere. And then you can make that happen for somebody and I just went through it myself, buying the place I’m sitting in now, like, last year or so. And I’ve been through that process before. And even though I had been through it before, and I’m in this industry, and we have 800 Realtors at the company I work at. I’m not a practicing realtor, but I’m among Realtors all the time. In fact, I have a license. So I really should be used to this whole thing. And I wasn’t, and it was emotional. It was scary. It was in the middle of a pandemic. So I was like, Am I making a horrible buying decision? You know, is everyone leaving the city I didn’t know. And I needed I my boss was my realtor, even though I could have technically done it myself. But he was a nice guy and said, I’ll help you manage your emotions through this. And and that’s really a cool thing that Realtors get to do. They get to help people manage this stressful experience of even just finding another apartment much less buying a place. And in New York finding an apartment is just as stressful sometimes, and certainly as competitive. My sister and I’ll tell you just a funny story. My sister and I back in 2005 We both bought a place for approximately the same amount of money. Hers was in the West Village on Barrow amazing location. It’s just like one of the best areas to live I think great location, great location. It’s like everywhere I turned I saw like I’m like I think that’s a professional model whether it was a male or female like everybody looked like a model. jailhouse. Yeah, yep. Yep. And, and then I bought a place here in the city in Chicago. And then, I think four years, five years later, Dana, my sister sold her place because she was dating a guy who lived in Queens and shows us moving out to Forest Hills. But anyway, so she sold her place for it was a fight you’ll appreciate this a five story walk up, no elevator. Or maybe there was but maybe just like a service elevator but certainly couldn’t use it to go up 500 square feet one bedroom, which is amazing. And no air conditioning and all that stuff. And she sold her place. I think it appreciated $200,000 like just an insane number. Mine depreciated by that time. But but that’s how crazy New York purchased in 2005.

I think so 2000 sold sold it in what sold it in when I’d have to ask or maybe five years later, somewhere in that neighborhood.

Jake Thomas 24:38
Oh then is appreciated. Over 40% Because from 2000, roughly 2000 to just post 911 to like 2018 the median appreciation for condos in Manhattan alone was 167% over that amount of time. So using that math and be scaled back, you know, years I’d say it’s at least 40% appreciation.

D.J. Paris 24:58
Yeah, well, and I think that’s That’s about what she got. And what was interesting about that is, that’s great. And if you cash that out, it’s a nice win. However, if she priced herself out of her neighborhood, right, she now no longer could it could afford to live in the neighborhood. She wasn’t going to anyway, she was moving to Queens. But the point was that that’s how crazy New York real estate is, of course, that’s a simple example, you have a million of those stories. So it is very difficult to as an agent, to really be able to meet a client’s needs strictly because there’s a limited amount of inventory, of course, so much competition, and it’s just so incredibly expensive. So I applaud you because you really are not not that it’s necessarily any easier in a rural community, those have their own challenges, too. But certainly, New York is known for just, you know, chewing up and spitting out realtors, and the fact that, that you saw it as a challenge, but a challenge to meet a really important need for you, which is I want to connect with people and I want to help them. You talked about giving, giving to me, is seems to be the most discipline and giving seems to be the two most common attributes people on the show talk about is being a giver, and then just cranking through it. So I’m curious, you’ve seen a lot of people, I’m sure come and go in the industry as well. Do you have any advice for people that are struggling right now that, you know, they’re realtors, they’re trying to get to that next level? Of course, we’re in still in the middle of a terrible pandemic. It’s still tricky, it’s still tough out there. A lot of competition rates are low so people can afford more than they could before. So there’s there’s just a lot going on. What would you what would you say to somebody who’s like oh my gosh, this is so hard right now.

Jake Thomas 26:45
In a sentence it’s never the markets fault it’s never don’t don’t blame the market or if that’s your if that’s your reason. It can’t be right you know, good good economy, bad economy, pandemic nonendemic doesn’t matter there there is always there’s always opportunity. There’s always a deal to be had. There’s always a deal to be made. Maybe it’s not where you want maybe it’s not you know, maybe you’re a buyer by heavy broker. Maybe it’s on the sell side you don’t like selling well maybe that’s where it is. Maybe you’re buying and selling isn’t working out too much but you’ve got rental clients but you don’t like renters but maybe that’s where it is you know, maybe it’s a different URL. It’s a different part of town. It’s about being you know, maybe it’s in most places you don’t want to be and you don’t like being at you know, people that only want to look at night people that only want to look early in the morning people that only want to look on the weekends, holidays, afternoons. There’s so much opportunity around if you can have a macro, I believe perspective of of all of it as opposed to where I specifically am trying to find for me because maybe it’s the most convenient there. I’ve found the lowest hanging fruit. And don’t get me wrong. It’s great when that works out like that. But if you depend on that, and you grow to learn that that’s how it happens when you get that taken away from me. There’s a joke about handstands doing handstands and learning handstands. And you may have heard this talking about the gym. If you learn to do a handstand on the wall, you’ll never get off the wall. It’s a good point. And I’d say so remember that metaphor.

D.J. Paris 28:30
Yeah, I have yet to, to get. It’s funny, even doing doing pull ups, I can relate to that. Because we use a band to help sort of, you know, because, you know, there’s just so difficult to do a pull up, as you know, but, but now when I do try to do one or two pull ups without the band, you’re right. It’s very, it basically, it’s better if I really, if I don’t have the band to some degree, because then I learned that, you know, I don’t have a helper here and I can just power through and eventually I’ll be able to do that pull up. But but you’re, you’re you’re so right about the you know, it’s the same argument, I get, I get these calls I do recruiting for our real estate company. And so I’m talking to realtors, and I don’t hear it as much anymore. But when I started 11 years ago, there was a lot of like, what kind of leads Can you give me and that’s really what what you’re talking about is, you know, being unfortunately, a lot of realtors probably think that’s that’s the solution. And and of course, that’s wonderful if you can find a firm that can fire leads over to you. Wonderful, good for you. But what happens when that those lead sources dry up or when the firm decides we don’t want to spend that kind of money anymore on that. You’re right and and also the fact that you’re you’re you’re a hustler in the most, you know, sort of complimentary way I can say hustler in a good way. Somebody who doesn’t give up somebody that understands, hey, I can just pivot and rentals are something that a lot of realtors ignore and now New York City probably not as because they’re so prevalent, but a lot of realtors, even here in Chicago are like, Oh, I don’t want to do those. And I’m like, Well, where do you think buyers come from? Like, they come from people who used to rent unless they’re super lucky. And they just, you know, have, you know, a trust fund where they can put a downpayment down when they’re 18? Most people don’t do that. So this idea of doing rentals, you know, I love that idea. And I’m curious, how have you found a lot of clients that have transition New York’s a whole different animal, because the barrier to purchase is so high, but I imagine that happens, right? That transition from I’m renting now, and I want to buy in the future.

Jake Thomas 30:36
So funny, you know, these last few years, basically, since the end of 2019. Definitely 2020. So everybody that was benefiting on the COVID deals, you know, whether it’s on the renting side, or on the buying side, because throughout 2020, there’s massive inventory. Normally, New York City sits around healthy market 6000 to 6600 available apartments, that number got up to almost 10,000, or just over 10,000, I forget by the close of the third quarter of last year. So huge bubble, and an already very large market space, right. But the demand, the normal amount of demand, which is always 98 102% Wasn’t there because of the Exodus taking place. So there was a huge amount of inventory, not a lot of demand. So of course, centers paribus, prices fell, renting, and buying. So everyone that could finally afford to live in New York, many people had been dreaming. Finally, buy could finally rent, etc. Well, now that all those renewals are coming up for renting, many of these clients are seeing 20 3040 50% increases on their rents because the rents don’t have to be fixed to the normal per annum inflation rates because the landlords can say, hey, we gave you a great deal, we did our part. Now we’re only returning the lens to fair market prices. So you have to do your part and either pay the new price, which is the normal technical price, or, you know, pack the bags. So because of that, there’s a lot of opportunity for current renters seeing these enormous inflation amounts to become buyers, you have liquidity, if you’ve got the means and liquid cash upfront, to be able to put down and buy and show money in reserves, if need be for Co Op, you can actually become a buyer and be spending what you’re spending currently, or certainly not nearly what they’re asking in the inflation amount. And you’ll be owning equity instead of paying someone else to rent their asset of which maybe you can’t even afford the new price. So this is gonna be a whole nother year of opportunity the same way, you know, 2020 was very opportunistic for the new comers to the city for for buyers, getting great deals on the sell side, and then 20. Later on, throughout 2020, it became you know, the ship, the demand went through the roof, the inventory went back down, everything got swallowed back up by by April. And now we’re seeing just kind of the elastic response of okay, I don’t know what to do. And there’s a lot of people that are stuck in the middle. But Dare I say the same amount of surge we saw on the renting side for COVID deals, there’s gonna be a lot of new buyers this year that are already happening.

D.J. Paris 33:08
That’s really that is really exciting. And I just love the fact that you seem to you see the opportunity versus this struggle, right. So the struggles there. Of course, this business, having to wear all the hats a realtor has to wear is of course, a very daunting task. And I applaud everyone who does it professionally. And that’s their full time gig, because it is not easy, of course. But I love the fact that you’re just a guy who pivots. I don’t mean to say you’re just a guy, but you’re a guy who pivots. When you see something not working you’ll you’ll move to something else. And you just look for the opportunity. And there’s always, as you said, always opportunity. But you’re absolutely right, you just painted a very rosy picture of this year. Whereas I suspect if I asked other agents in your market who who maybe aren’t doing as well, they might have a different opinion, right? They might see things in a more negative light. And they might say, Oh, well, gosh, I mean, you know, people are still freaked out, no one’s coming back to the city or whatever the the story, they’re telling themselves to keep the they’re sort of idea of why things are so hard in alignment. And I love the fact that you just gave us some really, you know, exciting news. And you also by the way, we should talk about results because it’s one thing to just have a rosy perspective on on where things are headed. But you you’re a results guy and you know, that’s you know, being in the military, being in professional sports, of course, it’s all about results, the discipline that to get those results, and you’re closing a deal every four days, you know, whether it’s a rental or a sale, that is an incredible feat for anybody in any market. How do you manage all of that? That traffic right so there’s just a lot of to dues on your plate. Every couple of days. There’s somebody closing, how do you keep that all organized? I I’m just always interested in in systems. So I’m not that you need to get too too granular with it. But But tell us a little bit about how you how you organize all that information.

Jake Thomas 35:09
That’s so funny, you know, between their own, you know, client management system. I had my own simple Excel doc that I set up and had various formulas throughout to sort and itemize and you know, Salman, configure some quant tips and COUNTIFS and other things, for me to just to be able to see kind of a pattern of consistency and like probably, really probability right? To where I could say, on Wednesdays, between three and 5pm, I need to be in the West Village business, my highest probability of success based on where I’ve been the deals I’ve done, what size I’m looking for, this is likely the profile of the buyer or the renter, he or she is going to probably be at this age are probably gonna have this budget. And this is the ideal move in date. And I had that dialed in based on everything that I put into this. And I had some friends helped me out with the algorithm. But that’s when I was drilling it as specifically as I possibly could that way to where and it was every four days, I had it at one point it was less than 48 hours, which is fun, because when I watched the numbers preflop I was like, No, you know, like I wanted to stay at one point it was less than 36 hours. So it was it was fun, because it was a big I kept it as a game. You know, it was it was playful. Like I kept that exciting. I kept it kept me interested. And at the same time, I was really doing what people wanted, or what we’re asking of me, right? So I was just running to the calls running to the to the springs running to the fires, right? And just saying, Give me more, give me more, give me more load me up. And for me, the more they came, the more they asked, the more it motivated me. So it was it’s again, really I think the consumers I like the people who I’ve been able to serve, because it’s them that that give me this drive like to me it’s reciprocal, you know, I I play off of what I’m receiving. And like you touched on with people seeing this and the negative. Yeah, I’m sure that’s true. I’m sure there’s truth to a lot of the fear and the doubt and uncertainty and speculation. Maybe I just, I don’t subscribe to it. You know, I stay with the surety that what I know and what I can affect and influence right here, from an arm’s length away. All that might be true. But in the time that you’ve spent talking about that thinking about that scuttle butting about around the water fountain, you know, it’s not going to feed out at the bar, because you’re fearful whatever, that less than four days clock has been rather than the whole time. So in your time of doing that. I’ve been on the meter doing otherwise. Yeah, yeah, you’ve

D.J. Paris 37:37
been getting your rep set. And, and I love that because at the end of the day, you know, the 24 hour news cycle is available to all of us, and we can entertain ourselves and keep ourselves busy with things that will satiate us in a sense and entertain us. But someone out someone out there is practicing while while we’re absorbing. And of course everyone should study their markets and do the you know, do that kind of work and and read the news about you know, what is important to them for for their business. But it is very easy to get caught up in what’s happening, versus charting your own path. And you are somebody of course, who doesn’t seem to subscribe to I’m going to let things happen to me. And I would love to talk about social media and the role that’s played for you because you have an impressive social media following which is is, you know, not as easy I think it and not to make this agender conversation because, of course, we’re two guys and we could talk about guy stuff. But it seems that guys have a harder time building a social media following. You’ve built up an impressive following your social media, your Instagram account, for example, is about 16,000 followers, and you post a lot about your life on there. And you’re really sort of show who you are and I wanted to curious on how that has impacted your business. You know, do you find that obviously, you have a following you have people that are interested in your life. But can you talk a little bit about how that started and how you decided to what you decide to put on on social media and how that helps your business?

Jake Thomas 39:20
Yeah, I’ve always been very inclusive of other people and to what I’m doing like I’ve always been a fan of sharing, you know, like, Hey, man, met this movie like who wants to go to the movies Harry? Oh my god, you guys have to come to this restaurant or oh my god, this this place was so cool. This is like, I always want to share it with someone so that not that I’m pushing it on you but like if you can feel it, I’m feeling it’s gonna make you feel great or if wow, if I could share this feeling with someone else, like maybe the world would be a better place. So for me, I’ve never wanted my work to dominate what I broadcast I want it to be about my the experiences that I have and trying to share those the places that I’ve gone, the foods I’ve eaten the things that I’ve seen people I’ve interacted with, you know, like right now, at this little Mexican restaurant in Williamsburg. I’m the only one in here. And conversing with the hostess and the owner and my mother’s from Mexico. They’re both from Mexico here. And I immediately started speaking to them in Spanish. And they both looks to me like, like, most people usually do it, like, Why do you speak like this, you know, with this accent and everything. And this is a million dollar moment that no one’s gonna see that no one’s gonna have that I’ve just bathed in and then just glowing from it. You know, that’s how I feel. And so that’s what I try to put out. Trying to get caught up in too much of the other stuff in there, there’s, there’s enough negative in the world, and I don’t need to personally feel that I need to add on to that people are going to find that wherever they want. There’s no shortage of it. So if I can get a little bit more smiles and Christ the world, that’s it, it’s a win for me, you know, my mission statements is, for me to find an outlet in life that permits me to give everything I have of myself away. Real estate is my way of doing that. And whether it’s a specific transaction, or just the kind of nuance of the business. Yeah, because it is lifestyle oriented, it is about people and experiences. And that’s what I’m trying to pump out. And you know, if people like it, cool.

D.J. Paris 41:18
Yeah, and I like that you’re, you are willing to share it, everyone’s got different boundaries around what’s comfortable for them and sharing on social. And I like the fact that you, you know, like, you have this incredible tattoo, sort of, you know, I don’t know if its sleeves, the right word, but one of your arms is just this really impressive, full design, it is super cool. And, and you show it and you’re like, This is what I this is, you know, you show yourself working out, you show yourself, you know, playing sports and just being active, and even just at a cursory glance, as I’m looking through through your, your, your social feed, it is, you know, what, what really comes across is your character, because I’m seeing a guy who’s who’s in an incredible physical shape, who really seems to be a giver, as well. But I’m seeing somebody who’s disciplined and seems to have their their life together as well, which is also like, why wouldn’t you want to show that? Of course you would. So I imagine a lot of your clients, you know, probably even look up to you in a lot of ways for you know, how fit you are, and, and how positive you are. And just how professional, right, it’s, it’s this willingness of showing like yourself, as you are. And you do that. So I really encourage everyone to look at subscribe to Jake’s Instagram, which is again life like Jake, but I love that and, and you also have fun with it, too. You do a lot of funny things, too. So but but I, you know, I suspect you have a lot of people follow you because you’re willing to put yourself out there and say, here’s why I’m this is me. And here’s what I’m into. And it doesn’t it’s not always real estate related. It’s like, here’s my, here’s some stuff going on in my private life. And here’s what I do when I’m not, you know, closing deals. And I think

Jake Thomas 43:06
I’m really I don’t always play to the crowds man, like, I’ve learned like anybody, people love to see me with not a lot of clothes on by what the engagement statistics which show on my analytics show. And then you know, I’ll go and talk about something that is near and dear to me. Whether it’s a play that I saw, or just an article that I read or an experience, and no one cares, but I don’t care either. You know, like I’m saying this because it’s honestly feel this is how this thing made me feel and like you go, but for sure, there’s clearly a trend of what is preferred from the audience side. It’s which makes me laugh a lot. Yeah.

D.J. Paris 43:53
Well, talking a little bit about the performance side of you with your your background in theater. We’re very lucky here in Chicago, we have so much great theater. Some people argue we might even have the best theater in the country. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t want to start that argument because I don’t know enough. But we to that to make that argument. Of course, New York City is is

Jake Thomas 44:13
fine pizza is a different story.

D.J. Paris 44:16
Pizza, yeah. Well, that’s true. We don’t have John’s like we do here. But we do have Lou Mel noddy’s and a few others, you know, Chicago, Chicago, New York have a friendly rivalry there. But it is let’s talk about about theatre and performance because I’ve interviewed a number of successful realtors who they are authentic. And I’m no way suggesting that that there’s no there’s not authenticity. But this idea of no this is still a performance. It’s an authentic performance, not not social media. But when I work with a client, I consider that a performance where I’m going to be presenting to them I’m going to be you know also listening and doing a lot of interaction, but has your you know your your background on the state Ah, has that helped you with the way you interact with the public because of course, on stage, you’re directly communicating with every single one of those audience members.

Jake Thomas 45:10
That’s funny, because it’s actually the reverse. So I only recently acted the very first time. This past year was my stage debut on Broadway or Off Broadway. Wow. Yeah, so it was really more of like, all those reps with clients, and interviews, and just different professional places or sex that I’ve worked in, you know, between the military are going to fit that was a great one, a talk about a learning experience, working in the oil field and are working in a bar and working throughout, like, all those places were different, you know, still being me in every sense, but really just observing and learning so much more about other people and the environments that I was in. So when the stage opportunity came, I was just like, oh, this is we can do this, you know, humbly, of course, and excited. But at the same time, I was like, Oh, this is what we’ve been practicing our whole life for this, you know, this is just just let it rip. Now. Let them see it, you know, and so like, it was me. Yeah, that’s, that’s what it was like, it was more of just like, Oh, we’re finally getting seen. Okay, cool, you know, and so for me, it was it was very much like a childhood. excitement about it and your eyes wide open?

D.J. Paris 46:28
Well, it’s nice to see, at least here in Chicago. The Steppenwolf and the Goodman are sort of our two most most famous theaters here. There’s a lot of other ones, of course, but I don’t think we’re back to in person yet for any of those, which is a bummer. But I know that theaters are starting to open back up. So if you do live in a community with some with some, some theater stuff, please support that. That is those those actors, directors, the stage hands those those theater owners, that’s it’s been tough. And, you know, I prefer to go to the theater over movies, almost almost. I mean, I live in Chicago, we have a lot of great theater here. But I love that you’re trying that. And I just assumed you’d been doing it a long time. So I’m, and you’re probably you probably like scary things you enjoy. And I don’t mean, so scary that they would be dangerous, but just you like difficult tasks. That’s that’s where you get a lot of satisfaction from.

Jake Thomas 47:23
Like, do I look at it as difficult? Or? I don’t know, if it’s the fact that it’s tough that I look at it as an attraction or that maybe it’s not what everyone else would pick and that I see something as unique or that it’s weird. And that it’s not normal? I don’t know. Maybe that’s more attractive to me that I’m like, it’s more about what if I don’t, as opposed to the one? Yeah,

D.J. Paris 47:49
yeah. Do I want to get to the end of my life and go, Oh, I should have done that. I should have tried. You know, whether or not you went to Tony, is is another thing, of course, but But it’s like I could have gone for that I could have tried that. And then if it ends up not being the thing that you like to do? Oh, well, yeah, I tried it, I got to do it. I was we were talking about my dog who’s had some heart issues at the moment. And the cardiologist that I saw recently said something very similar. Just a couple days ago, in Florida, he said, he goes, I want you to think about how you, you know, we have a certain amount of time left with this particular animal. And I want you to get to the end of this animal’s life. And I don’t want you to have any regrets about how you treated this animal. So he said, you’re already doing all the medical work, you’re going above and beyond there. But I want you to make sure that and this was such an unusual thing for cardiologists to say, although I suspect maybe it’s not unusual, but I wasn’t unexpected, unexpectedly hearing it, where he said, I want you to feel good at the end of as best you can at the end of her life. And I was thinking what a great metaphor for all of us to really think at some point we all you know, we all traverse off this mortal coil. And you know, to think what are some things that would really be fun to try and maybe a little scary, too. And I love the fact that you don’t even think of it as scary. You’re just like, well, that’s just what I wanted to try. And so of course, why wouldn’t I do it? And I love that, that you that you have that attitude. And it is clear to all of our listeners, I’m sure well how that’s translated into your success. But I know you’re a busy guy. And we have gone a full hour and this has been such an insightful conversation because I think for everyone listening, they got a real sense of how your beliefs and your attitude which you have full control over. Or at least you know, if you pay attention to them, and you obviously do, but for everyone listening, if you pay attention to your beliefs and attitude you can you can make things mean anything you’d like. And you can look at go jumping on stage, which is most people’s number one fear is, you know, public speaking and say that sounds cool. That sounds fun. And if it doesn’t work out, who cares? It’s going to be fun. and enjoy that. And you chose to look at things that way you chose to look at leaving a probably safer path in the corporate world with with Ralph Lauren and other you know other companies and said, I want to try something else. And that’s going to be more fulfilling for me and I’ll figure it out, I’ll make it work. And you have and not just made a living, but also made a huge splash in the New York real estate market with how successful you are. And I imagine you’re the kind of guy you could probably just drop you off in any industry, maybe you wouldn’t be as fulfilled, but you’d be able to get it done, because you just know about getting things done, and moving forward. So I really, really applaud the success you’ve had. And I know our audience really appreciate it. So on behalf of the audience, we want to say thank you for spending time with us inside a restaurant where I know you don’t have time to do this, and you found time to do it. And I really, really can’t thank you enough. And on behalf of Jake and myself, we want to thank our listeners and our viewers. for continuing to get to listen to our show. The best way to help our show is to tell a friend think of one other real estate agent that could benefit from hearing this amazing interview with Jake and send them a link to our website. If they’re not a podcast person. They can stream every episode we’ve done right from our website, keeping it real pod.com Or just pull up a podcast app, hit search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button and also one last favor. We’re asking please leave us a review whatever you’re listening through, whether it’s iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Pandora or whatever, let us know what you think of the show. Good and bad. We’d love to know how to improve and also what you like that really helps us continue to make the show better for everyone. So thank you on behalf of the audience again, Jake, thank you so much everyone go I want everyone to listen yeah and by the way if you live in New York City and you are looking for an agent Jake is your guy best way to reach him currently find him through Instagram which is life sorry life life I’m sorry Jake. I just lost my notes just went down. And like Jake sorry life like Jake So Instagram life like Jake also look in the show notes for this episode. You can link directly to it, but you can contact him through there and he would be happy to talk real estate with you. So Jake, thank you so much for being on our show and we will see everyone on the next episode. Thanks, DJ.