Keeping It Real Podcast • Secrets Of Top 1% REALTORS ® • Interviews With Real Estate Brokers & Agents

Patrick Kilner the founder and CEO of Kilner & Kirk Real Estate describes why he chose real estate and how he started his career in the industry. Patrick talks about the freedom he’s been able to create for himself and his family by building his business in real estate. Next, Patrick talks about his book “Find Your Six: Stop Lead Generating & Start Building Influence“. Patrick and DJ discuss business development and the changes that need to be done in the industry for agents to be happier. Last Patrick discusses the importance and the role of the agent.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

You can buy Patrick’s book “Find Your Six: Stop Lead Generating & Start Building Influence” by clicking here.

Patrick Kilner can be reached at [email protected] and (240) 678-4157.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Did you know you only really need six people to build your entire real estate career? Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show. And in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with top producer and author Patrick Kilner, he’s going to teach you why you only need six people in your life to build your entire real estate practice. But before we get to Patrick, the best way that you can help us continue to thrive and grow is by telling another realtor about this show, please do that. You can send them over to our website, keeping it real pod.com Every episode can be streamed there, or just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button. And also if you could just take a moment and review our show on whatever podcast app you’re using. We would so much appreciate it helps us we read all those reviews and it helps us really make changes and getting better and better meeting your needs. So please do that if you have a spare second, but enough about me let’s get on to the main event my interview with Patrick Kilner.

Today on the show we have Patrick toner from toner and Kirkley in Maryland. Let me tell you about Pat. Pat killer is an 18 year veteran of the real estate industry and is also the founder and CEO of Kilner and Kirk real estate now killed her and Kirk is one of few very few teams nationally. And this is amazing to have total lifetime sales, weight pregnant pause, dramatic pause of over $2 billion $2 billion. Pat’s team has done between 70 million and 100 million in volume every year for the past 10 years. Without Pat going to a single appointment. I’m gonna say that again 70 million to 100 million in volume over the past 10 years per year without Pat ever going to an appointment. He also has a brand new book, which is called Find your six stop lead generating and start building influence, which debuted as a number one new release on Amazon, we encourage everyone to go out and purchase this book. In fact, we have a link to the Amazon page right in our show notes. So please go take a look at five or six and learn more about the book and everything related to Pat Kilner at Find your six.com. And that’s fine. Your si X spelled out find your six.com. That link is also in our show notes for the podcast episode here. So Pat, welcome to the show. DJ, it’s

Patrick Kilner 3:58
great to be here.

D.J. Paris 3:59
Pat and I were talking just before we got on and I could feel like I could talk to Pat all day. And I apologize because I was I was running a little bit late. And Pat was Pat is just such an enjoyable guy. So I’m really excited to learn more about you. So let’s let’s start at the beginning before you had all this amazing wild success. How did you get started in real estate? First of all, yeah, why real estate? And then how did you get started?

Patrick Kilner 4:24
I think like most really good things to get your real estate sort of found me. And they say like you when you get into writing books, right? They say a book finds you while real estate I think found me as well. And I I would say quite accidentally, really. I was doing the post grad school just back from grad school and trying to figure out what to do with myself and handing my resume out to everybody that I knew. My dad said you gotta go talk to this guy. He could run for the mayor of this town, right that you know, local town here. He knows everybody and so you gotta go talk to him. So I went and talked to Rory. And I said, Roy, here’s what I do. And you know, I speak Spanish. I lived in Spain for three years did my Master’s there. And and you know, and I’ve got a master’s degree in economics and you know, all this stuff. And so here’s my, my curriculum vitae, like, who can you introduce me to? And he goes, you know, why don’t you come work for me. And it turns out that Rory had his own brokerage, his own small boutique brokerage. And you had never thought about real estate, I had not to that point, I had not thought about real estate. But I, you know, my dad was was planting some seeds. And my dad had said to me, a few weeks prior to that, you know, Pat, my only recommendation to you because I have not done this. And here’s what I’ve seen in terms of success is to get into an industry that you can envision yourself being in for the next 30 plus years. Because the people who I know who have been in the same industry for extended periods of time, they’re the people who do the best by their family, financially. They’re the ones really doing super well in their 40s or 50s. And their 60s, because they’ve they’ve run that race, and they’ve they’ve developed themselves, and their their cachet, if you will, in that industry. And so if I could go back and do anything else, that’s what I would do. By the way, you should go talk to this, this person is this person and this person, and Rory was one of those. So I didn’t have a better offer on the table. I was newly married. And feeling pretty humbled by a really tough job market at the time, early 2000s. And said, What the heck, go get my real estate license. Little did I know, the market that I was getting into, it was totally insane. This was what was building up to the mortgage crisis. Sure, anybody could buy a house interest only low interest only no doc, right? Like, walk in here, if you can fog a mirror, we will give you a house, even though you can’t get into that rental down the street, right. So it was totally nuts. And of course, you don’t know anything you get into the into the business. And you’re like this, that’s most of you are businesses. So you can talk to anybody, and everybody wants to buy a house, because it seems like the thing to do. And those are the days when you know, four or five times more inventories on the market than is on today in the DC metro area. And so there’s plenty of homes, and there’s even more people want to buy homes. So that’s the that’s the market that I got into I tried my hand at some commercial because I didn’t know which way I wanted to go didn’t have a good mentor initially, either. And, and so that that’s, I got in and, and struggled really, really, I mean, it was really tough. First couple years. I remember my wife saying to me, like, hey, if this is real estate, and this is a stress level, you have to have, I think you need to find something else, you’re really well qualified for other things. So it’s not all, you know, coming up daisies right away. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 7:56
cuz I don’t mean to interrupt you, but but with your background, and you’re sort of the pedigree that you have. And you mean, I’m thinking consultant, I’m thinking, you know, middle management, finance right away, or some working at a corporation doing I mean, you’re an economics guy and finance guy. So seems like you’d fit very nicely into the corporate world and just sort of, you know, doing going that route and didn’t,

Patrick Kilner 8:20
I wish, I wish you would have talked to me back when I was 25. But I didn’t, you know, and serendipitously, I am so glad, by the way that I got into real estate. This has been an amazing career. But it’s a very odd, I remember telling my friends who I had just graduated with what I was doing there, like, really, you’re getting into residential real estate like, right, that’s what my mom did after we all, you know, like, you know, went to college and went to school. Right. So that’s, you know, this is this is 18 years ago, as well, I think the industry has changed, I think for the better in acquiring young talent into the industry earlier on. And, and that, I think, I think it’s a really, really great thing to get into, but you eat what you kill in this industry, you’ve got to go out there and make it happen. And so that was that was where a lot of the stress came from, initially, you’re perfectly qualified to go get a job that can pay this mortgage. Can we please pay the mortgage? Right? Yeah. And that’s, that’s how I think a lot of us start right then and fighting against that. And you move from, from survival to some stability. And this stability builds on stability. And what I’ve realized in this industry is that you create your own stability. And and, you know, here in DC, we’ve got all sorts of amazing fields that people get into. And I’ve seen plenty of those people who thought they were perfectly fine that their job was as solid as it could possibly come, especially in government, right jobs or government related jobs. And all of a sudden, they’re looking for a job. So we create our own stability, and I wouldn’t trade the stability that that I’ve been able to create in this industry for the world,

D.J. Paris 10:03
the freedom also that you get to, to enjoy. And I don’t mean that you don’t work hard, because of course you do and you work, arguably, not even arguably inarguably harder as a solo practitioner as your own sort of entity in real estate, and certainly, as you have a company and you have to manage, and you now have to do a lots of different things. But I would be curious, do you find that? Yes, maybe the financially, it would have been not as advantageous to stay at a, you know, do it more traditional corporate job finance or economics, or were something during that sort of that that path, but a lot of stability, probably a lot of like, you know, I go home in a certain time, I don’t, I can turn it off. But it gets retired a certain age, and maybe I get to retire at 6065. I have friends who are in the been in corporate finance, and they’re retiring in their 50s. And they don’t, I don’t think they’re in love so much with with their profession, or the company they work for, but it doesn’t seem to be as stressful. So so there is a bit of a trade off. But But I think the freedom is sort of ironic freedom, yes, you get freedom around your schedule. But just economic freedom is so much better. When you really fully commit to real estate, if you if you figure out a way to turn it into an actual business, as opposed to just a job that you’re sort of punching a clock and working with the next client just kind of starting over at the beginning of the month. So I’m curious on your thoughts about about the freedom that you’ve now enjoyed, yes, tremendous stress, but also tremendous freedom.

Patrick Kilner 11:37
Yeah, but there’s no, there’s no situation in which I’d would have had been able to write a book if I didn’t have the freedom, that, that building a business, and in particular, in real estate has allowed me to write so I because I am no longer client facing, it allows me to be far more creative. And to use a lot of the economics that I that I, you know, still have and enjoy using it and the research side of things that I enjoy deeply. So yeah, there’s, there’s tremendous freedom in that. And I think there’s, you know, there’s sort of three types of agents, there’s solo agents, there’s agents who talk about having a business, who are really running a really big practice, because you get hit by a bus, all of a sudden, the business is gone. So that to my mind, that’s not really a business, that’s a really profitable practice, oftentimes, and that’s what most people have. And then there’s very few who have a business, meaning you get hit by a bus, and the business keeps creating revenue, without you. And that’s, that’s the, so at different levels, you enjoy different levels of freedom. And so, you know, before I was I was running a business, truly, there’s no way I would have been able to read it, write a book, I could do a lot of other things. I’d say my, the freedom as a father, the freedom to be able to spend time, and to be creative about when I use my time as dad and as husband has been immense and tremendously fruitful. And but I’m really competitive. So I had to teach myself that through school of hard knocks, to prioritize family over this business journal because I, as we all know, that can it can become an obsession.

D.J. Paris 13:33
Yeah, it can. And I always think to freedom comes through like discipline and structure, oddly enough, sort of counter intuitively, I noticed that yeah, like I just got back from the gym. I talk about this a lot on the show, because I oftentimes schedule interviews right after I get back from the gym, so it’s just fresh in my mind. So I apologize for our listeners for talking about giving,

Patrick Kilner 13:55
while your energy level was so good when you’re maybe four I’m

D.J. Paris 13:59
just, you know, wildly, you know, have some sort of chemical imbalance either way. Could could be that, but But either way, but yeah, thank you. But what I will say about about the gym is I struggled with going to the gym, and I just use this as a metaphor for people to maybe think about different habits that they want in their life that they find it very hard to do adopt things that we all know we should do. And we don’t do go to the gym. For me, it’s always been a struggle, I just don’t like it. It’s painful, like I just, you know, not doesn’t isn’t something that I would ever choose to do, which is funny because I’ve tried to get myself to do it for years and years. And it wasn’t until I hired a trainer, which was it’s very expensive, crazy expensive, and really kind of a bummer to write the check every month. But it gets me to the gym. And through that structure for the last two years. We just see and I just we just realized we’d been doing it for two years. I haven’t missed one one time and I’m telling you I’m 46 for up until 44 I would have been like I knew I should go to the gym and I’m kind of beating myself up but I don’t but I just wouldn’t. And so because I have that structure in place where I just have to stay pending appointment, whether three times a week, I never have to think about it again, I don’t I have to go there and do the work. And that’s the that’s that sucks. But I don’t have to think about it. I just have to go. And because I have somebody else who’s going to show up, and she’s going to charge me whether I’m there or not, I better show up. And it’s so expensive that there’s no way I’m not showing up. So, so oddly, yes, it sucks to pay for it. Because God, I can. I don’t want to I’d be embarrassed to tell you how much it costs. But, but the reality of it is, I can’t do it on my own. And so that actually is like, oh, it’s actually like weight off of my mind. I don’t think about it. So I’m only

Patrick Kilner 15:36
waste. What’s the opportunity cost to you your long term health? Of not? Yeah,

D.J. Paris 15:41
I have more energy. Yeah, no, it all logically, it all makes sense. So for sure, it’s like, but I just don’t have to struggle with the beating myself up because I didn’t go, You know what I mean? So I think what a lot of times agents think about as they struggle with structure, and of course, of course they do, there’s no structure in place for an agent, unless they have a coach or they have a great trainer or a great brokerage that really helps them or they’re just naturally good at it. Because most of us, you know, I think real estate is so up so much a personality style, sort of X extroverted for most people, I think they like hanging out with people and, and being of service. And those are all great qualities that don’t always are always the same qualities that are good for structure. And so I think, you know, if there’s one thing we’ve learned, after all these years on the show is, is creating structure has just been really helpful to actually give people more freedom, ironically,

Patrick Kilner 16:34
yeah, yeah. I mean, what’s your one of the first things I’ll ask folks as we’re looking to onboard? Is what time you wake up in the morning? Yeah, and and, you know, what, okay, what’s, what are the first few hours of your day look like? Right? Just walk me through that. Not a Saturday, like a workday? What does it look like? What are your cars, you know, somebody’s priorities by what they put earlier in the day, hopefully? Right? Is checking Facebook? Or is it? You know, are you going to the gym? Or are you, you know, is there meditation? Is there, whatever it is, right? Are you hydrating, whatever it is that you need to do in order to click into a height really high performing productivity, because nobody else is going to tell you in this business? When to be somewhere, right? And so you need to have that, that discipline yourself. And that starts literally from the time you wake up. And so you know, the next question is, okay, what time do you get to bed? Right? So, because if, if that’s you, what’s your ideal day look like? You’re waking up at six in the morning? Okay, well, what time you have to get the bed in order to do that consistently? Oh, I don’t need sleep. Okay, let’s see how long that lasts. So it’s a Yeah, the beauty of this is the freedom and the Achilles heel is the freedom. If you don’t use it, well, for sure.

D.J. Paris 17:53
Let’s talk about the book, because I am so excited about this book. And this, really, and I haven’t, unfortunately had the chance to read it yet. So I apologize to our audience. But that’s what you’re here to talk about. So I want to first and again, remind people the name of the book is called Find your sixth. And the idea behind it is to stop doing as much lead generation and start doing a little bit more influence, I guess we would say, sort of proactive marketing versus versus attraction being creating so much value that that people are just instantly or over time attracted to want to work with you. I I remember, when I was a financial adviser many a million years ago, I heard one of the top real smart financial advisors in our office who had been doing it 30 years says, if you have to ask for the sale, you’re probably doing it wrong. And if you do it, right, people go, how do I sign up? How do I give you all of my money to invest? And I thought, Well, that’s easy for you. You’ve been doing this 30 years, he’s like, No, you just have to be good. You have to know what you’re doing. And you have to actually be providing value. But let’s talk about the book. Tell us what it’s about and how how agents can start thinking differently about about influence.

Patrick Kilner 19:07
Yeah, when this is very much a real estate book. I mean, this is through the blood, sweat and tears of, of really figuring out how to get through the crash of 2008 2009. And that’s sort of where I start with the book. So let’s back up for a second, I became very interested in what made really high performers, excellent at their careers. And so I began interviewing people who had been going at their careers well into their 60s, sort of, you know, in the twilight of their careers. For the most part, I found that 60 most successful people I could possibly find all very high performance across different industries. And I interviewed him. And I said, you know, I’m curious, I want to understand, who have been the people who have been fundamental to your success over the course of your career. Let’s talk about that story arc of your career and And we talked as long as it took him. And I took copious notes, and I recorded the interviews. And at the end of those 60 interviews, what I realized is that the average number of wildly influential relationships to them that had made their careers what they were, were just six. It wasn’t 600. It wasn’t 6000. It wasn’t a million, right. It wasn’t like, how many Facebook followers did you have? Right, that didn’t matter. What mattered was a handful of really amazing vision aligned relationships, that in many ways, they almost felt like this is just total serendipity. How did I happen across them? And so that hence the six that’s that’s, that’s why find your six is oftentimes why people ask, you know, one of the first things I’ll say is why why find your six? And when I first got in the business, the first thing was told to me is that no leads, no business, right. And we all do work in leisure, I have a column still in my chart of accounts, that is lead generation spending right on it, like I wrote a book, basically condemning the concept of lead generation. But but but we That’s how ubiquitous it is. What’s really interesting is that we’ve only begun speaking about lead generation, we that that word, we’ve only started using that since 1976. We didn’t actually talk about acquisition of new relationships, as leads, write those incredible relationships that we have the honor in real estate to work with. As leads, we started, we shifted, and all the sudden, and most industries did by the way, financial industry, right. Glengarry Glen Ross, right? That’s 1980s, all these things, you know, Wolf of Wall Street, 1980s 1980s, right. All of this comes out of a lead generation mindset, which is basically people’s, that the relationship between us and the consumer is a commodity. And we just need as many of those as possible to do as much business as possible. Go Outdoors, it’s a numbers, game, knock doors, pound phones, whatever it is. And I did all of that as a new agent. And I was getting awards, my broker’s, like, Hey, this is great young guy, my gosh, those people I wish they’d been, they’ve been in this business for 2030 years, I wish they could produce as much as you. And I’m like, wow, I hate this. This is this is soul stripping work. I, if I have to knock on another door, I think I’ll just change careers. And it wasn’t that I just didn’t like it. It’s just that I wasn’t having the type of relationships with those types of folks that I was having when people would refer me, people who trusted me implicitly would refer me

D.J. Paris 22:46
totally. And not just because it’s easier to get the referral clients. I want to make that point clear, because of course, it’s, of course, it’s easier in a sense. But it’s a better culture fit for you, because those are people who are probably very similar to the even if they didn’t automatically know you from a friend of theirs, which of course, is great. You’re not, there’s some sort of inherent sort of similarity of sorts with that previous client, that is likely to be a fit personality wise.

Patrick Kilner 23:21
Well, I think there’s, there’s a question of longevity in this business. Like, if you’re gonna do this for 2030 years, as my dad, you know, said I should do? Or more. What kind of what kind of business development Do you really want to do?

D.J. Paris 23:34
Right? Do you want to go on tours? Right?

Patrick Kilner 23:37
So I remember asking you, I was teaching a class, some of my own agents, some other business owners, and I remember saying, Okay, we’re halfway through the year, let’s talk about your business plan. You know, what was your goal at the beginning of the year, you’re here, you know, six months in, what’s the gap between where you are where you want to be? And they all wrote that down? And then I said, Okay, what lead generation tactic do you have in your back pocket that you’re going to use for the next six months to bridge that gap? And they all wrote that down? And then I said, you know, this, this is where it sort of struck me. I was just curious, because I was starting to research the book I said, Now, those of you wrote that down all of you. How many of you would be deeply excited to do that, that tactic every day, two hours a day, five days a week, for the next three years? Or five years? Not a hand 40 By not a hand,

D.J. Paris 24:31
we know that it can work because people have done it. And we’re not going to debate whether it works or not. We’re just gonna say do let’s assume it works. And are you going to be a happy person doing this?

Patrick Kilner 24:43
Yeah. And not a hint. I mean, some very accomplished people, right? And I was like, wow, there’s something wrong with the way we think about business development. It’s, it’s like, it’s drudgery. What if What if you could come up with a way that you could do business development For the next 20 years and be excited to do it every single day, what would you what would that do to your business? Well, that due to just how you show up to your family, that’s that’s the essence of fine your sex. And to me, if you can do business in a way that that allows you to really have great joy at this game, well, then, you know, you’re living a much, much fuller life. As far as I know, we only get one shot at this. What’s also really interesting is, well, who does real who does lead generation better than anybody? Right, who produces more leads? Or maybe a better question is who do you pay for your leads? Right? Yeah,

D.J. Paris 25:41
as you say, Zillow. upcity. Redfin, exactly these these are lead corporate, these are lead companies, and that’s not a pejorative term. It’s not negative. It’s just the truth. I, I came from a background prior to this, where we generated we were in the health insurance, lead space, essentially, and we were generating 15,000 health insurance leads a day people who needed to buy health insurance realtors, often times are in that that group. And and so I was in the lead gen business and and that’s what Zillow and and again, that’s a good thing, that that’s what they do.

Patrick Kilner 26:14
It’s an amazing mousetrap. It’s better than anything you could possibly build on your own. They got the and you’re not you’re not going to compete. I got into the business, oddly enough, the same year that Zillow got into the business. This is before the brokers had IDX agreements, right? Sure. So, so not all of the MLS data was shared across everybody. Everybody’s, you know, websites, sites. Yeah. So. So your world has changed significantly in the last 18 years. But I mean, how many travel agents you know,

D.J. Paris 26:52
I think there’s still a few because I once in a while I’ll drive by, you know, a storefront that says it I’m like, Hey, look at that. I’ve never met one and I don’t know if there’s anyone in that in that building. But yeah, it’s it’s that’s pretty much

Patrick Kilner 27:05
that used to be a thing, right? Like people with travel agent, you know, it was it was it was multiple hundreds of 1000s of people in the travel agency business making making good livings, fantastic livings gone, relatively gone. The only people who are left are people who have niche relationships that you can’t get by going on to Travelocity, right. And that’s why I use them. If we are as agents, not figuring out how to disruption proof, our business development, Zillow is going to eat your lunch,

D.J. Paris 27:38
of course. Absolutely. And by the way, that makes sense. Because what they provide, and I know people have very strong feelings, positive and negative about Zillow. And I’m not here to take any side at all. But there is a sense of they’re taking something from me and my thought has always been probably not. If you’re if you’re an agent that provides exceptional value. That’s not what they do. They provide value for looking at homes and connecting you with an agent who wants to get your business. They’re good at that. They’re excellent, or they’re the best at it. But are they good at walking somebody all the way through the process of homeownership or selling a property? No, that’s not what they do. They’re a lead company. So that’s not their forte. And thank goodness, thank God, they haven’t cracked that code. Because it means that the realtor is still front and center and absolutely important for every step of the transaction.

Patrick Kilner 28:35
100%. And but if you find yourself in your, in your your drive home, from showing that house, wondering how you can compete with Zillow, you’re probably doing the wrong type of business development. And lead generation is just a blip on the radar screen historically, in the history of how people have generated business, right. So what I really wanted to know when I wrote this book was I wanted to talk to people who had weathered their own disruptions in their own industries, and pretty much every service industry we know of, and every goods industry, we know has been disrupted in the last four years. So I figured let’s go talk to those people in different industries, and figure out who are the people that have made them disruption proof because that’s really what when you find the right people who refer you business who can only think of you as their agent, you don’t need a ton of them. I’ve built a pretty darn good based business with just a handful of amazing relationships, but we are not practiced at finding those relationships. So I the the thought process here, and what I realized about sort of my own journey was that I was fortunate enough to find my Sikhs in a very short period of time, which is why I was able to survive 2008 2009 And, and as I talk to these folks, what I realized is they were all Talking about the same characteristics of the talent that they were looking for, to affiliate themselves with. So you’re no longer in a in a lead generation business, you’re in a talent business. And if you can find the right talent to align yourself with it’s game over. And Zillow is not in that business.

D.J. Paris 30:17
Right? And nor are they interested in that business. They’re interested in capturing people who are searching online and they become the search engine and they capture that person’s information and sell it. And that’s, that’s, that’s not a bad thing. It doesn’t really it doesn’t compete with a realtor who it provides tremendous value. It’s just a totally different world, probably a different client as well.

Patrick Kilner 30:41
Amen. Couldn’t agree more. And you know, gosh, NAR numbers have only gone up since the inception of Zillow. So, you know, there’s plenty of agents getting into this business simultaneous with the growth of, of lead generation, you know, outfits like like Zillow.

D.J. Paris 30:58
It is funny to when when Zillow had its its, they, you know, they’ve had some some poor press in the last year with their home, their their eye buyer program and all of that. And, and what’s interesting is when you go to and I love labcoat agents as a community, I think it’s excellent. I love those guys. They’ve been on our show. It’s really nothing but love for labcoat agents, and what they felt is like, beyond amazing, everybody should go subscribe to that Facebook group. They got 150,000 agents in it anyway. But when that news happened, it was depressing to me because I saw nothing but Glee and joy from people saying hi, Zillow, screw you. You’ve been screwing me over for years. And it’s like really like that’s it. These are probably some really successful agents. And it was just flooded with 1000s of comments. And I was like, huh, I actually feel bad for Zillow, because I don’t think of them. I actually know a lot of people who work there. I feel bad. Like, are you okay, as you know, and it’s interesting, I never thought of them as competition. Well,

Patrick Kilner 31:59
I mean, and you talked about talking about disruption, right? Zillow is just a disrupter set. And, and, and thank God, we live in an era where there can be disruption to industries, that’s how business gets better. Like from an economic standpoint, the way that we actually get better is to have competition and people coming in don’t really, is that really why we’re, what your value is, like, if your value is finding the house? I mean, come on. No, you’re you’re a negotiation expert, you’re a marketing guru. You are, you’re much more than just somebody who, who had a bunch of houses back here that I’m not going to show you unless you signed my paperwork, well, that’s a silly proposition. And the consumer should see that as completely absurd. Versus I am a fiduciary, who’s going to guide your decision making, such that, once we’re done with this, you won’t, you won’t, you won’t believe how fortunate you were that I was in your corner. And you’ll think to yourself, and you’ll refer me by saying, you know, the cost of not having DJ in that deal was not just monetary, because it was, he’s worth much more than I would have ever paid, I could have ever paid for him. But it was also a place where our family lives now, in a place where we create memories. And that’s where we sit as agents. And if we confuse that with what we’re actually supposed to be doing, then then I think we’re in for a world of hurt. But I think that’s why people get into this business, they really deeply want to want to be sit in that in that chair with that family, and which is a place of real honor, and tremendous dignity for both the person giving that type of service and the person receiving it. That’s something that tech can’t do, and won’t ever be able to do. So the question is, and this is what I was most curious about is I want I want to be referred that way every single time. Oh, that look like well that feel like how much how much less can I spend on lead generation and more on client service, and more on a few really important relationships. And so that’s where that’s where I take things in the book. And the book is really just, here’s, here’s how to understand the talent you’re looking for. And then here’s systematically how to go find them as well. And that’s the last part of the book.

D.J. Paris 34:34
And when we’re talking about talent, we’re talking about finding your six finding your your those few will say shallow but deep water, right so what we’re wanting is we’re wanting a very specific type of relationship, which is which there’s a process to finding those people your case you interviewed people you sort of went the Napoleon Hill route from The old thinking Grow Rich from a million years ago, 100 years ago, which was about he did the same thing. He went out and interviewed, like the 100 most successful people in the world at that time, or the country and, and learned a lot and then realized, oh, there’s this, there’s a series of principles here that seem to apply to everybody. And let’s write a book about it. And it’s become probably the best selling self help book of all time, as a result, so even if even if all you did was go out and interview all the successful people that you admire, did you find that your six were among the 50 that you interviewed? Or were they different relationships? Because I know that you’ve got the idea of all of these really successful people have six relationships, or seemingly have the six important cornerstone, Cornerstone relationships? Did any of those people end up becoming part of your sex?

Patrick Kilner 35:46
It’s a great question. So yes, a few. And I kind of go through the math of it. So look, I’m running a business, simultaneous to reading a book, I need, I need a lot of this too. I can’t just do the book, right, I’ve yet to have your business. And books, by the way, don’t make you any money. So. So yeah, so I mean, it was part partially that you’re really investing into relationships, you know, and, frankly, you know, if you did that, once a day, you had one great meeting with somebody who could be a candidate for your top of the, you know, I have a paradigm in here called the, the, the influencer pyramid. And so most of the people that you know, are not going to be wildly influential for your business. The problem is a lead generation mindset will tell us, everybody, you know, go and put him in your database and like, and you’re just gonna, you’re gonna hit him once a month with this and that. And the other thing? Well, the reality is, they don’t want to hear from you that much. And most of those people are not going to be influential enough. So once you understand the talent that you’re looking for, you’re not going to go spend time with people at the bottom of the pyramid. Or that much time with people in the middle of the pyramid, you’re only going to focus on people who are candidates for the top of the pyramid, the top of the pyramid is where your six reside. And so, you know, who did I find? Let’s, let’s sort of take the gloves off for a real estate audience how to talk to audiences who are not in real estate, Bailey, who should we be looking for? Yeah, who are the people? You know, for us in the DC metro area. Some of my biggest sort of people who rose to the top of my, my influence or pyramid have been, I had a great relationship early on. And I was just so amazed that this one great tax attorney, and, and he did business law and tax, and he was a connector. And so he connected me to all sorts of other great people. He, he came to me and we did events together, and he’d bring his his best people, and I bring my best people. And we network everybody together. And he sent me, gosh, she’d send me 810 deals a year. And that’s huge. Yeah. So if you think about if you had six people will send you 10 deals a year? I mean, you know, that’s most agents would like lose their mind. You’re a top 1% Producer at that. Absolutely. So that’s the type of relationship I’m looking for. We found this in some build relationships. Sure, right. Makes sense. There’s a lot to think about the top people in almost any market, they have some really great build relationships, whether it’s infill builders, or people on Raw, fresh dirt, you know, and they’re talking to you the NA R’s of the world. That was that was a game changer for us. And so we went specifically looking for the type of talent that we’re looking for. In that sphere, I oftentimes talk to talk to agents and like, so I’ve got this guy, and I’ve been working on him for years. And it’s just, I, he could be so huge for my business. Well, if you’ve been working for years, and there’s not enough vision, alignment with where you want to go, and you’re not providing a value for that person, to see you as a consummate professional, that they will refer over the other 20 Real estate agents that they know, then move on. But unless you’re in the game of talent, I mean, you guys, you are in the game of talent in your brokerage, right? Every single day, you’re having conversations, you’re looking for the right people the right fit, there’s got to be a vision alignment. There’s got to be people who are who who value what you value. And and once you know that there’s that cultural fit, they’ll tell their friends about you. They’ll be excited about it. And so there’s a natural build that happens. That’s what happens and you find your sex as well.

D.J. Paris 39:43
Well, I you know, I know we’re we’re closing in on the end here, and I wish we weren’t because I would like to continue talking about this, but it’s a great sort of place to remind everybody. This is why he wrote a book. So go get this book. And honestly, this is such a unique idea. It’s not something that I look, I’ve been doing the show we’ve done 350 Something episodes. I have yet to really have this particular conversation around. Yes, we talk about marketing and branding. And really what we’re talking about is branding to our sphere of influence our database. And generally speaking, the the way that that most agents, even top 1% agents do it is yes. And of course, they value all their relationships. I mean, again, I’m no way criticizing this. But what they’ll do is they have a system, there’s, there’s maybe there’s mailers that go out, there’s there’s emails, maybe a text, there’s some social media postings, there’s a lot of that, but it’s kind of blanketed across, you know, possibly hundreds of people. And again, it works. To a degree it works, you do get referrals that way. But it is time intensive, it’s energy intensive, it’s not as personalized. And it doesn’t, it’s not really an attraction model, it’s more of a fishing model, I’m going to cast my net. And there’s nothing wrong with doing that. It’s, of course, a perfectly fine strategy. And it absolutely works. But this idea of of a track, I’ll tell I want to give you this, because I want to hear Patrick’s take on this. This is something I heard of it blew my mind. 21 years ago, I was a financial advisor. And I heard we they had hired this, these guys from Merrill Lynch to come over and tell us this, they had written a book, and they said, here’s what you need to do. And I know you’re gonna love this. And it was the scariest idea to me at the time, I was a young kid, they said, Go find the client, you know, whatever clients you have in your business. And and the ones you really like the ones that you think are just really cool, great people, somewhat influential, but whatever. They’re just good, good human beings, and they like you. So we take them out for coffee and say, Hey, I am trying to work on my marketing for this next year, I want to work with people just like you. However, I’m not totally sure how to get in front of more people like you. Do you have any advice about what you might do? If you were me? And it’s like, well, that’s just so brilliant. And, and you know, you’ll do that. And some people will say, I don’t know, you know, I can’t and then okay, fine. But some people will be like, oh, man, you need to come hang out with me at such and such place. All my buddies are going to be there. And you’re awesome. And we’d love to, you know, and you’re not asking people for referrals, you’re not asking them for business, you’re just saying, Can you help me? And I’m curious to get your take on that. Because it sounds like that is very synergistic with what you’re talking about.

Patrick Kilner 42:35
It’s foundational. And yeah, there’s when you ask for advice the right way. You almost never get rejected.

D.J. Paris 42:43
It’s the most flattering thing you can ask him right?

Patrick Kilner 42:46
When was the last time somebody said DJ, never can I you know, you don’t you don’t get offended. You say, Wow, I’d love to you might be really busy. You might have to kick it back. The busier people will be okay, that meetings gonna be in a month. But that’s fine. Let’s put it on the calendar. Right? Oh, they missed because they were too busy. Scheduled again. Now they feel like though they owe you one. Great, go do that. So I I’m I’m a huge fan of that idea. I speak to that chapter, chapter four of my book talks about how to make the ask to get in front of people, because we’re actually unpracticed at this, your total and we spent a lot of time behind screens. And we’re really good at concocting just the right thing to put on that screen. We’re really bad at getting people just to meet with us face to face, especially post COVID. Right. Face to face, person, a person and connecting deeply with people authentically with people and not sounding like you’re pitching. And actually never pitching. And so yes, I love that. And, and, you know, one of the things that I that I talked about in the book is yes, this, this really is a high leverage activity. But you’re going to spend about as much time on this as you would on your other lead generation strategies. You’re just gonna enjoy it a whole lot more. So it’s gonna do that much. Why because we’re human beings and we enjoy more personal communication and connection with people. But your job is not actually to go and make the sale your job is to figure out on a daily basis who can I meet with? Who did I meet with and what’s the result of that what’s what’s the next step? And what great people imagine you’re doing this every day one on one a day you’re doing this every day you’re gonna have an amazing you know, old school, we’re Rolodex of people that you are you’re in the mix with and so what great people can you connect every day, when you become a connector of other great people. You’re actually what you’re doing is distributing wisdom. What to You know, it’s like what what to get the guy who has everything the most successful people, you know, what do they trade in, they trade in wisdom, they don’t trade in, like knowledge to stuff that you can google or wisdom and relationships, all of that. Absolutely. And the best way to transfer wisdom is through great minds. If you’re the connector of great minds, in your industry, and you’re doing that authentically, and you’re really looking out for people, guess who they’re gonna think, think about when they think about real estate, they’ll say to you, and this is, I always, as I started to get good at this, what I realized is, what I wanted people to say, when they walked away from me, is, wow, I spent a lot of time with real estate agents. I’ve never had a real estate agent who thinks like that. And everybody can do that, because nobody thinks like you. Right. But if you’re in the game of business, and you’re having deep relationships with people that’s unique in and of itself. Now, if you’re talking to them about things that matter to them, and you’re helping them solve those problems, you’re gonna build a really big business, you know, that it’s, it’s, it is that simple. But you have to be in that in that game. And that’s, that’s a numbers game, right? So one a day, after a number of weeks or a number of months, you have 200 meetings a year. So there in some ways, there’s a numbers game of those 200, you’ll find six, no problem, do this for six months to a year, you will utterly change the trajectory of your business over the next 12 months.

D.J. Paris 46:32
I couldn’t agree more. And it’s a good reminder, for me, as you’re talking, my wheels are spinning. Because we are I’m in the hunting mode of attracting realtors to our firm. So how do we do that we cold call, we send email, we will we don’t send unsolicited email or text. But but we were we’re constantly fishing, hey, we’re throwing our line out there, we want you to join us, which is typically how recruiting works in this industry. And I am like I’ve been doing it for 12 years, and we have 800 agents here and I’m exhausted as a number by the way, that’s a thank you. Well, it’s fun. And I’m in no way complaining. However, it is time for me to find my six. And so if I 12 years in need to do that. And by the way, I need to do it for this podcast, too. It’s not just in my real estate business. So I’m going to employ these tactics, I want everyone to go out and purchase this book guys. At the very least you’re out what 10 bucks and and you’ve done something for your personal development. And at best, you’ve completely changed your whole idea of branding, marketing and relationship building. So the book is called Find your six moving away from from, you know, traditional lead generation tactics to more influencer attraction model. And of course, it’s all through value. Patrick is clearly a very authentic solid guy who has a lot to share. And again, he didn’t write this book to get rich, because you can’t do that he is doing it to give back to the industry. So let’s support him. Let’s go out and get the book, visit his website, find your six.com. And we’ll have a link, of course to the to the Amazon page right on our on our show notes as well. But go to find your six subscribe to his mailing list and get updated with everything because he really has a lot of thoughts and opinions about. And by the way, his his company has sold over 2 billion in real estate. It’s not not that long of a time period where they’re averaging, you know, 100 million plus per year or so. So this, this is a guy you want to listen to and you want to subscribe to, and he’s a good guy. So let’s let’s, let’s make Patrick part of our six for now. And let’s let’s go subscribe and get his book. So find your six.com is the place to go. I’d love to have Patrick back on our show in the future because he’s got a lot of a lot of ideas that I think our audience needs to hear. So please let us know if you want to keep hearing Patrick’s voice. Although I already know the answer is yes. But we’ll we’ll keep reminding Patrick to come back on. But before we before we log off real quickly, if everyone could do just one quick thing for us, which is to tell a friend think of one other realtor that you know that could benefit that needs to hear who’s struggling with their marketing struggling with maybe right now the season is slowing a little bit. This is a good time to you know reach out and tell them about our show and send them a link to this episode. So send them over to keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done is there that we just we have 350 Something episodes, go through the archives tell a friend it would really help us out and also leave us a review. Wherever you’re listening to this on iTunes, Google Play Stitcher, Spotify wherever. Just let us know what you think of the show leave us a whatever star review and it helps us improve and also get in front of more people. But on behalf of Patrick and myself we thank everyone for being on for listening and or watching and on behalf of the audience and myself. Boy, we really think Patrick he doesn’t have this kind of time to come on a show. He’s he’s managing a huge team, a huge company we didn’t even talk about his business. But everyone go out to find your six.com. And that’s si X not the number six. So find your six.com and buy the book and then report back on how it’s working. And we’ll have Patrick back on the show very soon. Patrick, thank you very much.

Patrick Kilner 50:14
Yeah, it’s been a pleasure. And thank you for what you’re doing for our industry as well.

D.J. Paris 50:19
Thank you. See everyone on the next episode.

In our March episode of Monday Market Minute, Carrie McCormick from @properties provides statistics for Chicago’s market for this year. Carrie suggests that every agent should googling themselves to manage their own online reputation as a part of their marketing. Next, D.J. shares his marketing tip of the month. Carrie and D.J. discuss renovations that can be done when clients are planning to put a house in the market for the best ROI ad share photography tips for the agents. Last, Carrie and D.J. discuss the importance of reviews and why agents should ask for them.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Carrie can be reached at [email protected] or by phone at 312.961.4612.

Please follow Carrie on Instagram by clicking here.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
What renovations should you be insisting your sellers make before listing their property that will increase the value and the speed in which their property sells? We’ll stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads in interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solutions so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Welcome to keeping it real, the largest podcast made high real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I am your guide and host through the show today is our monthly series called The Monday market minute with Carrie McCormick from the Carey McCormick Real Estate Group with at properties here in Chicago. Carrie is a top 1% producer in Chicago with over 20 years of experience helping buyers, sellers and investors. In fact, in the past 12 months out of 44,000 real is actually 46,000 Real estate agents in Chicago. Carrie is actually ranked in the top, I think I think you’re number 13 right now out of all of those agents. She’s a true superstar and an expert in everything from first time homebuyers, veteran investors and luxury properties. She also works with a lot of developers and is often chosen to represent their high end developments. I actually live at a development that carry out represented so I can vouch for that. But please, please, please visit Carrie at her website, which is Carrie McCormick r e.com. And also follow her on Instagram. She has an incredible Instagram account. She does it all herself. And that’s at Carey McCormack real estate. Carrie, welcome once again to the show.

Carrie McCormick 2:44
Thank you, thank you, how are you?

D.J. Paris 2:47
I’m good. I’m good. i i i It’s funny I was all I keep hearing about is inventory shortages from everybody. And how, how is that going? Are you working with a lot of buyers these days? Are you working more with listings? Or?

Carrie McCormick 3:06
Yeah, you know, I, I was saying to it’s I think we’re all getting tired of hearing the inventory shortage story. And it’s true, and it’s continuing. And, you know, typically in my career, I’ve always been a little bit more of a, what we call listing agents, you know, I’ve worked with primary sellers. And over the last 24 months, you know, I’ve I have so many buyers, and everybody does, you know, we’re all in this hunting mode of looking for the sellers, and you know, really kind of expanding our networks. And, you know, I’m finding myself, you know, calling and emailing people and really, you know, someone said, describe yourself, I’m like, I’m, I’m truly a hunter, I will go find, I will go find sellers, I’ll go find people who want to sell their home. So just to kind of talk a little bit about Chicago and what we’re experiencing the amount of properties that were sold in February of 2022 I have to get my years right, the number of properties that were sold in Chicago is up 14% From February of 2021. So, you know 2021 We thought was an incredible year but so far, you know, our numbers are coming in extremely strong this year. And even though the sold properties are up, this is hard to believe too. The inventory is down almost 30% from last year. So we’ve got this weird, you know, balancing act that we’re trying to, to manage here and on top of managing that, you know, managing everyone’s expectations too. So you know it’s we’re now in I don’t even know what month we’re in. We’re in March headed into April you know, it’s interest rates as everyone know are starting to tick up. So we’ll see how that affects our market

D.J. Paris 4:52
has the interest rate adjustment, which I now I was reading the Fed may make six adjustments this year. So certainly interest rates are on the rise, which makes sense because they were at historic lows. But has that impacted your buyers at all? Where are you have your have their? What they’re looking at their the range of pricing? Has that changed at all? Is it scaled down for any of your? Your buyers?

Carrie McCormick 5:19
Yeah, and I think it depends on what price point people are into. And But absolutely, I call it their buying power. So you know, just using a round number if someone was going to, you know, last year, purchase something for $500,000. And, you know, interest rates were in the threes, and they bump up to the fours. Well, guess what, they cannot afford that $500,000 home anymore. Now they’re their budgets, you know, 450, or, you know, whatever the numbers pull out of? So yes, it does definitely impact some of the buyers. And, you know, they just they have to pay more for the house now. So not only prices are up a little bit interest rates are up a little bit. So it’s definitely impacted.

D.J. Paris 5:58
Yeah, and we haven’t really seen a price correction from listings, correct. Like, there’s still so many buyers that the prices are still probably higher than than we would expect.

Carrie McCormick 6:10
Absolutely, absolutely. So one thing that I wanted to also talk about is just shifting away from the inventory. But just something kind of fun, is googling yourself. So I found the other day, I went to Google myself, the top or the fourth top, Google search for my name was Carrie McCormick’s husband. Isn’t that funny. And the funny thing is, when you click on it, there’s no pictures. Except, and if he’s listening, Matt silver, who’s a good friend of mine, he’s a broker. He was the president of Chicago Association of Realtors. And way back when we took a picture together. And when you when you google Carrie McCormick’s husband, he comes up. I thought that was so funny, you know. So I sent I sent a screenshot to him. And it just said, you know, this, just so you know, if anyone asks, this is what comes up when you say Carrie McCormick’s husband. But anyways, as I was Googling myself and just looking, it’s just interesting, you know, how Google categories is everything. And so you know, as part of our marketing, we have to manage our online reputation too. So just make sure every once in a while that you do, you know, do a search and see what comes up. What I also did, which was very helpful is Google allows you to set up a alert with your name. So you know, I’ve gotten an alert. So anytime either an article comes out or something is said, you know, with my name, I get a nice alert about it. So I can just, you know, manage what’s out there. And what’s being said, and you know, think, thank goodness, it’s nothing negative. But you know, it’s just nice to have an alert, even if something gets published in a paper or something you don’t know that your name is being published, it’s kind of nice to see that. So that’s my tip to you is to make sure that you Google yourself and watch all of your, your online profile, make sure everything looks good.

D.J. Paris 8:08
Yeah, it’s really, there’s some good good tips there. So what you can do if you have a more unique name, is type that into Google search and just see what starts to autofill. And and you were saying, you know, husband, for example, might autofill. And you’re like, Okay, well, that’s going to show up when anyone types by name. And so I should probably look to see what results come back. And then you know, you’re seeing that it looks like, you know, you’re married to Matt silver, which of course you’re aren’t and so then it’s like, okay, well, I, you know, maybe I can figure out a way to correct that. You could write to the whoever owns that website and say, Hey, I think this is inaccurate or whatever. And so there’s certainly can you know that that is important, because even in referrals, I’m pretty sure Google their realtor, right? Even the ones that he does, yeah, everybody does.

Carrie McCormick 8:56
Yeah, everybody does.

D.J. Paris 8:58
Absolutely. And setting up alerts is a really good idea. So just as a funny sort of story, I my name again, my name actually isn’t DJ Paris. I mean, that is what I go by. But my name is really Delfin Paris is the D is for dolphin, the J is Joaquin. So it’s a very unusual name, but because nobody calls me that I have an alert set up on Google for DJ Paris, which I set up a long time ago, and everyone should set this up. But in my case, just as a funny story, there is a famous DJ called DJ Paris and it’s actually Paris Hilton, the the heiress to or I don’t know if she’s actually the heiress, but you know, the Hilton family. So she actually goes by DJ Paris, so I ended up getting all of her alerts. Because if I put Delft in Paris, you know, I would never get an alert because nobody calls me that so, but it is funny. So I know everything about Paris Hilton’s life accidentally, only because we have she uses the name DJ Paris because she is a DJ, which a lot of people don’t know.

Carrie McCormick 9:53
Did not know that.

D.J. Paris 9:55
Yeah. And it but it is a good idea. And I’ll tell you this, so that was is just a cute story. But this actually just happened a few days ago. So it’s really apropos to what you were just mentioning. i We have an alert. So I work at kale Realty. So I have an alert set for Kale Realty anytime, you know, news comes up at properties, which is where Carrie works, I’m sure has, they have a whole PR department so they’re watching that stuff too? Well, we had one of our agents at Kale was just featured in a cranes article for a home that he sold in Edison Park, which was apparently a big deal. I didn’t even know he had sold this home in Edison Park. And, you know, I guess our operations team knew about it because they processed the deal, but we didn’t know about it. And cranes thought it was a big enough deal to write about. And as a as a result, the only reason we knew about it was because we set the alert up. And then we were able to send his name is John and I sent John a copy of the article. And it’s like, Hey, John, just I’m assuming you already know this. But cranes wrote that a little blurb, blurb about you and this sale. And he goes, he said, You know, I they said they might but he they didn’t. They never told me really that they were going to and the one of the funny things is, he said, Well, they actually didn’t ask permission to use this particular photo of the property. So he was sort of laughing about the fact that you know that he didn’t get the he didn’t get permission to use the photo. But the point is, is like he didn’t even know that that had been published. So and you know it? I don’t know if he’s going to send that article around to his clients and friends. And I don’t know, maybe, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn’t. But we certainly from a brokerage level, we were like, hey, then we made a big deal about it to all of our brokers, like, Hey, look at one of our agents is in the news, how exciting. And that’s something that if you’re on a team, or if you’re, you know, even if you just set up your company name, or just realtors in general, setting up alerts for that kind of information, it’s a great way to make friends in the industry, and really, you know, celebrate everyone’s successes and be able to reach out and you know, and say, Hey, I saw your article in such and such, you know, publication and congratulations, and, and that stuff really does go a long way in building friendships and relationships. And, and maybe that maybe that sort of helps tip the scale, sometimes in a multiple offer situation, where all of a sudden, they’re like, oh, Carrie, you know, she has submitted an offer and that she called me the last time I had was published in this art, you know, it doesn’t hurt, I guess is the point to, to, you know, celebrate other people. So I think that’s such a such a great idea. I have a suggestion. And I want to carry because I don’t practice real estate. So I really want to get your opinion on the side of my marketing tip for the week, had to do around a home anniversaries. And it was really funny because Carrie and I were talking just before we started recording. And I said I want to talk a little bit about home anniversaries, or home bursaries. And Carrie says, Oh, this is really funny, because you had just actually ordered some cards. So yep, she’s showing them right now. If you’re listening, you won’t see them. But she has these really cute cards that say Happy Home anniversary. So you will be sending those out to people that have bought homes, I’m assuming do you do them for sells sales as well or just purchases?

Carrie McCormick 13:13
You know, I, you know, every year I like to call people and I just really in or send him a little gift. And I just I was browsing around online, and I saw these really cute cards, and I didn’t know home anniversary, or they started calling him home home home aversary or something like that I wasn’t even a real word. But you know, these cards were so cute. And there was a gal that was handmaking them and I thought you know, again, to support like a local business or small business, I thought it’d be a great idea. And so now let’s just start sending these cards out. I think it’s such a cute idea.

D.J. Paris 13:48
Yeah, and it’s something that I know, as, you know, as just myself, I know, I don’t have people ask when did you move in and it was only like a year ago, and I’m like, I march I think I like I honestly don’t even remember when I moved into my place. So I suspect most people don’t maybe retain, you know, the specific date that they move in or close on a property. And this is a great opportunity to just remind people about that special day and you know what it’s like to, you know, get the keys and, and you can do it through through a card or a bottle of wine or whatever, you know, whatever you want to do, gift wise if there even needs to be a gift. But I would say one thing that that would be something I would include would be or maybe I’d send it out a week later or something. But I do also want to give them an updated comp, I would want them to say hey, you know if, you know, here’s what I’m seeing in your area, and if if anything’s changed for you let us know. And here’s what your home you know, may be worth right now. That is something that I think a lot of homeowners just don’t really think about until they need to think about it until they’re like oh, we are thinking of moving. But I think if I knew that my home would appreciate it. A certain amount, and it was a legitimate thing where I was like, Oh, I could make some money, then, you know, I personally wouldn’t probably move, but I know probably there would be people that would. And so I think that’s a great thing. And I don’t think most people are hitting up Zillow and looking at these estimates as often, as Realtors may think, because we live in that world. So might be something that your clients just aren’t really thinking about. And you can bring it to their attention and maybe, you know, help facilitate that conversation if they start to realize, wow, there’s an opportunity here.

Carrie McCormick 15:33
I think that’s a great idea. And one other thing I’d like another tip I’d like to put out there is, a lot of times when I’m meeting with a seller about selling their home, you know, we walk through the home and they say, you know, what improvements can I make to, you know, get the best ROI on my home, you know, and so we go through a list of it, but a nice consultation to clients. You know, if they’ve been in the house for three years, maybe they had, you know, a five, seven year plan is, is meet with them on year three and say, okay, you know, I know, you know, have your plans changed? Are you thinking of selling and maybe 234 years from now? And if the answer is yes, it’s like, let’s start talking about, you know, you mentioned the kitchen renovation, you mentioned the bathroom renovation, you know, the landscaping, you know, why don’t you start that now, and so you can enjoy it. Right, and the time that you come to sell your home, it’s already done, and you’re not scrambling at the last minute, you know, trying to get things improve. So, you know, come together as a, as more of a consultation about what can they do to improve the home. So the time that they’re ready to sell? It’s done and ready to go?

D.J. Paris 16:37
Are there any rooms that are usually wins for an ROI return on investment? And are there any that are usually not worth doing? If you’re looking for a return on investment? Are there any just I know, it could be anything in there? There’s a million variables in place, but general rule of thumb, are there any rooms where you’re like, usually? That’s a yes. Or Usually that’s a no,

Carrie McCormick 16:58
I think it’s going to be the usual suspects, right? You think of your kitchen and baths is number one, right? Landscaping, like your curb appeal is becoming so important. Windows are becoming important as well. Roofs are important, I guess. I don’t know, it just seems like it’s a little bit of everything. I’m just trying to think if there’s anything I’ve said no to you know, maybe, you know, washers and dryers, you know, stuff like that, that can be easily replaced, you got to think about from a buyer’s perspective, when a buyer comes in the home, they want it to be perfect. And they want to be able to move right in and not have any big capital expenses, like a roof or you know, furnace or something like that. So those are big tickets, if it’s something that’s easily can that can be changed, like, again, a washer and dryer, let’s say, you know, wouldn’t focus on that. One thing I read, which was very interesting, is one of the biggest thing people are looking for is the entrance like their front door, you know, of just like, that is setting the tone of walking in the house, you know, so if you have chipped paint on your front door, if it’s banged up, for whatever reason, you know, it just as a buyer approaches the home and the property, it really gives an impression of how well that home has been maintained and how welcoming it is. And it just sets a tone. And you know, not that I never thought about that. But I just didn’t realize that that kind of snuck up on the ranks of top things to improve upon is your front door.

D.J. Paris 18:28
Yeah, it is sort of the first thing that once you take in the overall entirety of a property just visually like you see it from the street, you see everything and then you sort of narrow in I guess at least I do I narrow in on the front door. I don’t know why I do that. Maybe because that’s the entry point and just sort of make sense to think about that. But you’re right. I think about it, and I do evaluate it in a weird way. I don’t I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t think I don’t think I’m a snob about it. But I do I guess I noticed it as the point and if it’s really unique or interesting or cool. Then I go ooh, look at that they did something and if it’s maybe if it is banged up a little that I do have a slight negative thought about it like why don’t they fix that up? So that’s a really good point is keep those front doors looking great as as well as the entire outside. That’s yeah, it’s it is we live in this like Instagram world where in particular, this Instagram perfect world where we can make things that aren’t look that don’t look good, look good. On screen. But then if the person shows up and everything’s been filtered to death, it’s it’s going to be a letdown. And I see it with some of these photos that some of the photography studios do when they’re shooting homes. And they just make the sky a little too perfect and the grass a little too green and everything’s just pops a little bit too much. And it’s like it looks cool, and it’s very enticing, but it’s not going to look like that when they get out of it. You know, if it’s a rainy day, it’s not going to look like that. And even on a sunny day, it’s not going to look like that. So I always think maybe we’re doing ourselves a little bit of a disservice by making every picture look a little too perfect. I’m curious what you think online dating? Yeah, exactly. You never want somebody to show up to the first date and go, Oh, that’s what you look like. You want them to go, you look just like, it’s like, the greatest compliment you could ever get when you’re dating is You look just like your photos. Because that’s the person that is that’s the person that the person is going to fall in love with. So you might as well, but I wonder if that applies? Do you see that as well? Sometimes, like they put clouds in the skies, and sometimes these these photos, just, they don’t even look real?

Carrie McCormick 20:42
Yeah, you gotta be careful with them. And you know, there are enhancements that I think enhance, you know, like a sky or a tree or something. But if you’re really changing the integrity of the home, and what really what it looks like, I think that’s a big no, no. And I’ve been with buyers that we walk into a home and they are let down, you know, because they’re in their mind, they were expecting, you know, a certain look, you know, and then they walk in, and it’s not at all what it looks like in the picture. So,

D.J. Paris 21:09
yeah, so tip there is Don’t Don’t overdo it, it doesn’t have to look perfect, it just has to look really good. And it also has to look really good when they step out of the car. And, and so it needs to be pretty similar, I would say. But, yeah, so those are our tips for the week. So we talked about, obviously, we just talked about sort of photography, we also talked about home gifts, we talked about Google Alerts. And also, you know, this is a great time to where everybody’s is really stressed. This is a good time to to ask for reviews, as you’re looking at your online reputation. There is no shame in reaching out to a previous client and saying something to the effect via email, or text or even a phone call and saying, hey, you know, I know, I felt like we had a really great experience. If you you know, have any time. If you would love to share, you know, with with the public your experience of working with me, I would really appreciate that, that really helps me out. And I suspect, most people would want to do that. I know I would want to do that anytime. Even a restaurant, I always think restaurants missed the boat, the restaurants never asked you to do that. And I always think like, whenever I have a good experience, I would be happy to do that for anybody. I go out to eat more than anything. And I’m always surprised that nobody ever says, Hey, if you had a good experience, you know, go on Google and leave us a review. But nobody does that. But I think you can ask for that. I think it’s okay to ask for that. And, and people are gonna read that stuff. So you might as well try to try to get some in there. But you probably have to ask because usually I think people aren’t thinking about writing a review, unless they’re, you know, over the moon overjoyed. And there’s somebody who likes to write reviews, or they’re really angry. And there’s somebody that likes to write reviews. So I think you know, when you’re there’s going to be angry ones written about every business and every person at some point in someone’s career. So you should also maybe stack the deck in an ethical way by asking your clients who liked you to also talk about their experiences. And we started doing this at our company. Where we we had, we didn’t really think about this, because we didn’t want to upset our agents. So a couple years ago, I finally said, you know, we would ask our agents, please ask your agents, or please ask your clients to write reviews, and nobody ever did. Because you know, it’s kind of embarrassing. Maybe I sort of understand that. So I said, Well, we’re gonna just ask every single client once they close, like, you know, and then the next month, hey, could you please let us know how your agent did. And I let our agents know that we were going to do that nobody seemed to have a problem with it. So we started doing that. And we went from I think we had like 50 reviews before we started asking now we have like almost 400. And once in a while you do get a one star review and happens. It actually just happened to us a couple of days ago. And it’s actually good for us to know that because then we could reach out to that agent and say, hey, just FYI, this person wrote this. Is there anything we can do to fix this is there, you know, and it happens. But almost all the reviews have been five star? And it’s like, oh, yeah, because, you know, we have really great agents. Of course, Carrie is a great agent, and her company has great agents as well. So I think you can ask for it. And people seem to be really excited about that. So definitely ask it if you don’t want to do it because you feel like it’s maybe self serving, ask your managing broker to do it. Ask your manager broker to reach out to your clients and get reviews on your behalf. There’s nothing wrong with that either. In fact, in some ways, it’s kind of easier.

Carrie McCormick 24:45
I don’t want to do it. Right. But you’re right, I think nine out of 10 Well, probably 10 out of 10 I mean they do you they do like to write a review for you. So definitely need to ask though.

D.J. Paris 24:56
Yeah, and with inventory shortages. We’re just gonna keep trying We’re going to get creative. And I know you know, we talk about that a lot. And so we won’t mention any more of that today. But, but getting creative is important. And so this is a good time to build those friendships with other realtors who might have some listings that aren’t yet on the MLS, or maybe they’re in a private listing network and, you know, aren’t even there yet. And you know, you can start to get, you know, more access to some of that stuff before it gets sold. So all right, well, I think that’s a great place to wrap. On behalf of everyone listening, we want to thank you for thank Carrie for her time, she is incredibly busy. Gosh, I don’t I don’t even know how many homes you’ve already sold this year. Dozens and dozens, I assume. And it is. So Carrie is very busy. And she is takes the time every month to come on our show. We’re so grateful. And if anyone out there is looking to work with a top Chicago real estate agents, she works in the city, the suburbs, she’s everywhere. And she’s been doing it for over 20 years, he has one of the best reputations of any realtor really in the area, they should reach out to you. Or if you’re an agent who has somebody moving to the Chicagoland area, you don’t service this area, another great person to reach out to as a referral. So Carrie, what’s the best way someone should reach out to you

Carrie McCormick 26:17
always call me 312-961-4612.

D.J. Paris 26:21
And we should mention that you do not have this big, incredible team, which most of the people in your peer group who are at the level you are at. In fact, I can’t really think of any exceptions to this, although there may be, but maybe just one or two. They all have big teams. And you’re really doing this all yourself. So she when she says she gives out her phone number, it’s because she’s the one answering the calls and, and taking care of everything. And she does it very, very well. So congratulations, of course on all your continued success. And we would like to ask everybody just to help us out two quick things. Please tell a friend. Think of one other realtor that could benefit from hearing our podcast and let them know about our show. And then also please, please leave us a review. I will ask for reviews because it helps us learn not only what we can do better, but also helps us get more listeners because you know the different podcast directories, prioritize shows that have reviews. So let us know what you think whatever podcast app, you’re listening, you know, give us a review. We really appreciate it. It helps us continue to grow. So that’s all I got for this week, or this month rather. So on behalf of Carrie and myself, we want to thank the audience for continuing to support our show and we will see everybody next time. Thanks Carrie.

Carrie McCormick 27:37
Thank you

Welcome to our monthly feature, Close-ing Time – in partnership with TheClose.com.

Chris Linsell from TheClose.com provides a definition of wholesaling in real estate. Chris and D.J. discuss processes and regulations around wholesaling. Next, Chris and D.J. discuss possible problems that can arise from this process, does this process make sense for home-sellers and when? Last, Chris describes types of people who make the best fit for this job.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Chris Linsell can be reached at [email protected].

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
On today’s episode is wholesaling and ethical practice and does it ever make sense? Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show

Welcome to keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show and today is our monthly series called closing time with Chris Lynn cell from the close now this is a partnership between keeping it real and the clothes.com. Let me tell you about the clothes. The clothes.com is the kind of real estate website designed to give agents teams and brokerages actionable strategic insight from industry professionals. They cover real estate marketing, lead generation technology and team building strategies from the perspective of working agents and brokers who want to take their business to the next level, please visit the clothes.com That’s a close th e c l o s e.com And subscribe to their newsletter so you can get notified each time they publish an article with us as always as crystallin Sal, he’s a staff writer and real estate coach for the close. Chris is the closes resident expert on real estate topics ranging from marketing lead gen transactional best practices and everything in between. He’s a licensed agent in the state of Michigan. Chris has been part of hundreds of transactions from modest rural starter homes to massive waterside compounds. And when he isn’t writing or coaching, you’ll find Chris fly fishing or performing on the stage of his community theaters, local production. Now, Chris, welcome once again to keeping it real. We’re excited to have you,

Chris Linsell 2:52
DJ, great to be back. Happy to be here. It’s It’s a big day. It’s a big day. I don’t know why but it’s just going to be a big one. Today is going to be a big one. Whenever you’re listening to this, it’s going to be a big one. I just have a feeling 2022 It’s here.

D.J. Paris 3:07
I’m excited too. And we actually have some some possible news about Chris and our show. But we’ll we’ll tease that and hold that just for the next time. We have some big big announcements coming around Chris. But for now we want to talk about a topic that I believe agents are have been hearing more about in recent years, different states have different regulations around it. Some have license requirements, apparently others don’t. So this is a mileage may vary based on where you’re practicing real estate. But we wanted to talk about a very controversial topic, I would think for most of our listeners and probably a topic that gets a lot of negative response. And we want to discuss that and talk about, you know, the ethics of this particular process, which is called wholesaling. So I’m very excited, because this is I get just to give you a little a little insight into my under not even my understanding of wholesaling. But as a real estate recruiter, I’ve been doing this 12 years, and I end up talking to a lot of agents who, once they get their license are figuring out which firm they want to join. And they’ll interview here, usually with other firms too. And I’ve been doing this 12 years and only I would say in Illinois in Illinois, the last two years, all of a sudden I started getting calls from people saying do you allow wholesaling because Illinois did apparently change their their requirements where Chris and I actually just looked it up. If you do more than two wholesale transactions in a year, you do need a license and in state of Illinois, other states have different rules, but I’m getting a lot of these calls. So it just kind of seemingly out of nowhere. So I’m very curious to talk about this with Chris, who’s a journalist and also a practicing agent. So let’s define maybe to get start Did we should just define what wholesaling is for just anyone who might not be familiar?

Chris Linsell 5:04
Yeah. So wholesaling in a nutshell is when somebody, a wholesaler approaches a home seller, and that’s usually the way it works, it’s usually somebody soliciting a home owner, somebody who owns property and saying to them, I’d like to purchase your home. And in order to do that, we need to get the home have a contract for a particular price. And the wholesaler actually doesn’t have a specific intention to, to execute this contract, their goal is to get the home under contract at a certain price. And then they go take this contracted price, and they turn around and they try to sell this contract or in the business, we call this a sign, they try to assign the contract to another buyer, who is willing to pay a higher price than the contracted price. So a good example of this is, let’s say I am a wholesaler DJ, you are a home owner, I would approach you and I would say, I would like to purchase your home for $90,000. And we you agreed to this, you put the home under contract, we have it in writing, I’m going to purchase this home for $90,000. And then I take this contract and I turn around and I turn to say a network of investors and I say I have this contract on 123 Main Street for $90,000. I will sell it to you for $100,000. More likely than not, I wouldn’t tell you exactly how much I have under contract for because what I want is for you to pay a higher price than what I paid for it. I would then if I agreed to your offer of or the investors offer of say $100,000 Then I would transfer my con my contractual obligations to the investor, the total price would be $100,000 90,000 would be paid to the original seller because that was their agreed upon sale price. And then the remaining 10,000 would go to me as the wholesaler. So it’s not a complicated process. This is what we hear a lot in the in the internet space as arbitrage when you find something cheap, and then you sell it for more. This is a pretty straightforward arbitrage technique. But it gets a little sticky in the real estate space because we have licenses, we have regulation. We have a code of ethics. And there’s a lot of questions about whether or not all of the above apply to the wholesaling game.

D.J. Paris 8:01
So a few quick questions about who gets access to what information. So just to recap, a wholesaler goes to a homeowner Hey, I’ll buy your property for x or I’ll put it under contract I’ll buy the option to purchase it but I’m basically I am not basically I am I am saying I will purchase the contract for next purchase the the the property, then it goes under contract. So the homeowner no longer can really is going to look for additional offers. And then that wholesaler goes around to people they know who are investors, or just anyone who wants wants to possibly buy this property. Now does the home current homeowner who’s selling do they know what the total end price of the wholesaler who finds another buyer do they get to see well, I sold it for 90 and this other person bought it for 151? Well, that would be significant. But But yeah, let’s just say 150. Would the home owner ever know that?

Chris Linsell 9:05
That’s a great question. And guess what? Nobody knows. There is no regulation around this. There’s no requirement for disclosure, at least not on a national level. There is no board or local association that says Here are the rules to wholesaling. It is kind of the Wild West in the same way that if you bought a pair of sneakers at a garage sale for $10. You would you would feel pretty great if you bought the sneakers for $10 at a garage sale and then put them on eBay for $80. Would the person who sold them at the garage sale would probably feel pretty rotten about that.

D.J. Paris 9:45
And wholesaler wholesaling contracts typically are not recorded on the MLS. I don’t know of any exception to that. But that is another reason why that information is often private because you wouldn’t get to see the recorded sort of public or the record that other agents would be able to see. And then maybe the homeowner might see as well.

Chris Linsell 10:09
That’s correct. And in fact, they there would be, it would be strange if it was recorded on the MLS, because wholesaling is almost exclusively done by people without real estate licenses without the tutelage of a managing broker. And without the regulation of a local association. It really is, in many respects, it is real estate, the business of real estate being conducted without the safeguards without the data, and without the regulation of the industry that is so prevalent in what I call traditional real estate transactions. So yeah, well, you wouldn’t see that on the MLS, you wouldn’t see the wholesale price, you wouldn’t see the investor price. And unless you live in a disclosure state, this is a private sale, that would never be accounted for on your MLS unless your MLS has some sort of retroactive like tax record, kind of reconciliation later on. But here’s the other interesting thing in the majority of states, Michigan is one of these states, when it comes to these private sales, it is not required that the township record, the specific number that a private sale happens under it is only required if that number is reached via a public sale through a licensed, licensed real estate professional. So not even going to the tax records would allow you to understand the value of this property as it changes hands, it really is kind of a different side is the other side to the coin of real estate transactions is wholesaling.

D.J. Paris 12:02
So let’s talk about the possible problems. Maybe we can just keep them in, you know, any sort of category, whether it’s ethical or legal. We’ll just start discussing what what might be more obvious as an issue, and maybe less obvious. And I’d like to start with one that in case you’re not as familiar with wholesaling. A not Chris, of course is but for our oldest listeners, one of the tactics that is often used, although certainly we don’t want to paint all wholesalers with the same brush. But a tactic that is often criticized that is, you know, used enough to become something that people write and talk about, for a process, a practice that is not well received, which is that a wholesaler oftentimes has no inclination, and in most cases, would never have inclination to actually purchase a property, what they’re wanting to do, the way they get paid, is they’re going to, as Chris said, sell that to an investor. So that’s sort of the whole point of wholesaling is not for the middleman, the wholesaler to end up with the property. So what they oftentimes do is they will tell the homeowner, that they are in fact going to purchase this property, that is the commitment they’re making. And then there’s a race against the clock for that wholesaler to find a buyer. So the one of the first criticisms is there’s some sort of false or false pretense here of that I am going to purchase this property Mr. or Mrs. Seller. I don’t know how often a wholesaler would disclose. I’m going to make a promise to purchase this, but I’m really not going to purchase this. I’m going to find somebody else to purchase it. And there’s really no obligation I think on the wholesalers and illegal obligation to tell the homeowner this at all.

Chris Linsell 13:59
Yeah, that’s that’s true, though. There, let’s make no mistake in a traditional purchase contract. It is it is illegal to enter into a contract that you have no intent, or ability to fulfill. This is legally is a tort, known as the fraud in the inducement it is it is committing fraud to sign a contract that you have no intention or ability or resources to execute. So, and frankly, it kind of is a house of cards that starts to fall down pretty quickly. If a wholesaler discloses to the seller that they have no intention of actually buying this because in doing so a wholesaler would have to say, Hey, listen, I’d like to get your home under I’d like to have exclusive right to purchase your home for a certain day. dollar figure. And I know that that dollar figure is under the market value of this home. So, I’m gonna go and try and find somebody who will buy it for market value. You, I’m gonna, I am requiring a contract from you that says I’m gonna buy this home for less than what it’s worth. No home seller in their right mind would agree to that, unless there are some extraordinary circumstances. And even if there were extraordinary circumstances, the home seller is not guaranteed a sale here, they’re only guaranteed that the home wholesaler will have the exclusive right to look for an investor or look for somebody to assign this to. There is a real chink in the armor of wholesaling, when you put it on the backdrop of the real estate practice, because in no way shape or form, is any step of the real estate wholesaling process that I cannot ascertain anyway, one that offers a fiduciary responsibility to any of the parties, there is no responsibility to the seller to do them to look out for their best interests or even their interests at all. There’s no responsibility to the buyer. The only person that matters in this scenario is the wholesaler. And that is completely opposite what our Code of Ethics binds us to.

D.J. Paris 16:31
Now what happens if a, if a wholesaler does not secure an investor with this sort of this contract that they’ve put in place with the with the current homeowner?

Chris Linsell 16:44
Well, there’s a handful of things that could happen, they could say, I’ve changed my mind, I don’t want to buy this. And the seller could say, Well, hey, we have a contract, you are obligated to buy this. And the seller, or the buyer could say, well, I don’t have the money. And so you can try and sue me, but what are you going to sue me for? I don’t have any cash. And laws are typically written to protect buyers, instead of sellers. So it’s usually more of a pursuit that is going to be more trouble than it’s worth. If a seller was to try and bring legal action, a buyer could, if they can’t find somebody to assign their contract to if they are smart, they are baking in escape clauses into their contracts that say, I have the right to void this contract. For no for no reason for absolutely no reason other than I just don’t want to be in it up to a certain date, these kinds of escape clauses. The other thing that they could do, hypothetically, is they could bake a contract bake into their contracts, some sort of I will, you know, at such and such a time, if you are a licensed real estate professional at such and such a time, if I don’t have somebody to assign this contract to, I will list the home for sale for the price that we have we’ve agreed upon. That does happen occasionally. But frankly, it is usually a scenario of the wholesaler just says, Well, that didn’t work out. I’m just gonna walk away and move on to the next person that I’m going to try and put under contract. It just doesn’t end well for many people, frankly.

D.J. Paris 18:37
Yeah, and I will say, oftentimes another tactic that wholesalers will use in order to justify the process is if the homeowner says, Well, why wouldn’t I listed with a realtor? And the wholesaler might say, well, let me explain to you how realtor fees and commissions work and if we you know figure out what those triggers you know, typical Commission’s might be if somebody were to sell this property well look you’re actually you know, going to be paying this X amount in fees and commissions so here’s a way to avoid fees and commissions and I’m willing to buy it right now for this for essentially no fees or commissions. So yeah, if you had a a realtor, they might be able to get you 100,000 But you’re gonna be paying possibly 10,000 And now that’s that those numbers probably aren’t accurate, but but that’s that’s sometimes another tactic that’s used to convince that seller or the homeowner to sell the property to the wholesaler right that in there to avoid a lot of those commission issues.

Chris Linsell 19:45
Yeah, it’s the truth. And frankly, it is kind of a smoke and mirrors sort of explanation because it is really hard to it’s really hard to justify and a wholesaling angle As a benefit to a seller, because, frankly, the only way that I think hypothetically, this makes sense for a home seller is if the margin that a wholesaler would clear would be less than the typical cost of a real estate transaction. And that margin would then be likely somewhere in the neighborhood of three or 4%. Maybe. And for most people that I know, that have pursued or are active in the wholesaling space 10 to 15% is kind of the only thing they get out of bed for frankly. And so there just is no, I just, there’s no math that makes sense to me as to how this this benefits anyone except for a single person in the middle of this transaction, who is essentially taking an exorbitant fee to play matchmaker between investor and property seller or property owner.

D.J. Paris 21:03
And for so we might be thinking at this point, well, what kind of owner might be susceptible to this sort of sales pitch from a wholesaler? And I can think of a few examples, one could be possibly the heirs of maybe some parents that pass away that leave a house to children or other family members who do not ever want to deal with that home again, just want to get rid of it. I imagine wholesalers probably try to find those types of situations and say, hey, I can get rid of this for you very simply. And easily. You don’t have to deal with anything, I’m just going to buy it for this. So that would be sort of, I think, a pretty obvious, you know, reason why why that could happen. Another one would be the home is in distressed state where it’s going to require a tremendous amount of upkeep to get it to be able to sell effectively on the MLS, right? So that’s another or perhaps the loan is underwater, or the homeowner can no longer pay the mortgage. And there’s a risk of defaulting on the loan. So distressed kind of situations, I would think would be more susceptible, where people are just looking to get out. And maybe they grab the first lifeboat that comes their way. Yeah, and do I have a good understanding of that?

Chris Linsell 22:22
I think that those all those situations make sense. But I can’t not a single one of those scenarios in my brain is the optimal scenario. Because if let’s say you’ve got the errors, your parents, your parents just passed away, you’ve got their house, you need to unload it for emotional or financial or logistical reasons. You name it. It will, you know, in what way does somebody saying I will conditionally buy your house assuming that I can find somebody else to pay more for it than I’m offering you. Like, how does that simplify your life? I guess there’s just I can’t think of a single scenario where having somebody who might buy my house and puts me under contract and handcuffs Me and does not allow me to do anything else with my house in the time that they’re maybe going to buy it but not really going to buy it. Like they’re just to me, there are this, this feels like, I’m just gonna be honest with you. This feels like a grift. To me, this, this does not feel like there is anything there’s any upside measurable to the other outcomes that are possible within a real estate scenario that makes sense to people is it doesn’t happen. Yeah, it happens every day. I’m sure they’re there. It happens more than we have an understanding of because of the lack of regulation and recording. And could it be, I guess, hypothetically, an option for some people, maybe. And there might be wholesalers out there who take a very different approach to this. They might say there might be wholesalers out there that say, Listen, I have a network of investors who are interested in homes that match the criteria of your home, I understand that you may have set reasons why your home doesn’t feel like a candidate for sale. Maybe it is in disrepair. Maybe you are financially in a place where you’re concerned that the amount of money that you would get for the home wouldn’t cover your loan, and it would put you in a spot where you have to bring money to the table at closing. And that’s just not an option for you. There are a handful of reasons why a home owner might want to sell and feel like they can’t sell and a wholesaler does have if they’re connected in the right ways they could have value via these connections that could provide to a home owner with the rights kind of network to execute on their goals. That being said, because of the lack of regulation, you don’t need a license. You don’t need any training. You don’t have to repeat frankly, this is income that if you wouldn’t, the, there’s no, there’s no form of reporting, there’s no state regulatory agencies, this is somebody stroking you a check. Frankly, this is there’s just so many ways that this goes sideways, that you need a, like an absolute, like a cadre of, of virtual angels who decide they want to become wholesalers to avoid the legal and ethical and just, frankly, immoral pitfalls that come with this scenario, in my opinion.

D.J. Paris 25:57
You know, I I completely agree, I think we’ve made the case that this is largely a predatory practice. You know, similar to, you know, I always think of it more similar to the days before 2008 Nine, where the real estate market crashed significantly, where there were interest only loans, the early 2000s, where people did not have to put it wasn’t a grift, per se, but it was a very vulnerable place to be if you went into an interest only loan that might adjust from 2% as your initial rate up to 7%, you know, within a year or two SEC by twos time and those, those loans aren’t even I think they’re still around. Maybe a better example is a reverse mortgage, which, which also is problematic for a lot of a lot of cases. But we I think we agree that this is a dubious and predatory practice, you know, and again, I’m sure there’s people that would would claim otherwise. But that’s just our opinions of it. That being said, I will tell you, here in Chicago, I’m a recruiter. So I deal with people who are looking to move firms, they talk to usually many firms, including ours. By the time they get to me it’s not usually I’m not the first person they’ve chatted with. And if they are wanting to go into wholesaling, at least here in Chicago, the response I get is the very first question is do you allow wholesaling? Do you allow your agents to wholesale? And our answer is no. And the reason for that is with the reasons we just mentioned, and in addition, our errors and omissions coverage does not include wholesaling, or I believe it doesn’t include or it’s like questionable about whether our insurance provider would cover any errors and omissions claim on a wholesaling transaction. And we’re just worried about it losing our license. So we we don’t allow it. And what people tell me is, I don’t even know a firm. I’m sure there are that allow it but none of the large franchise firms I’m To my knowledge, none of them allow it. And I’ve yet to find any firm here locally, even smaller firms that that do allow it again, I’m sure there are some, but it is it is it’s become very common that I get these calls, because I think what happens, at least here in Chicago, there’s a lot of seminars and courses that the people can take where they are told about this practice, and it is pitched in a way that is I’m sure you know, persuasive, seductive, even possibly, and then but Oh, but you have to really get your real estate license in Illinois to really be able to do wholesaling. Again, I guess you could do up to two transactions a year without it. But if you’re really wanting to make money at this, you probably want to do more than that. So you have people that get their license, and then they’re just stuck going well, nobody really wants me. And it’s like, well, yeah, because you were sort of sold on this, this whole concept. And you and you new agent didn’t even know that this is kind of a predatory practice. So it’s just becoming really common. I think the people benefiting the most oftentimes are the people selling these courses because like just exploded out of out of seemingly nowhere in the last couple years.

Chris Linsell 29:09
Yeah, it’s the truth. And you know, one thing that is really interesting to me, and something that I hope if you are listening to this, maybe you you saw the title of this podcast and you’re and you don’t have a real estate license, and you’re thinking well I want to get into wholesaling. So maybe this will be helpful for me if you are the sort of person who would be good at wholesaling. Now, these are the sorts of people who connect well with their community. They talk well to strangers, they are able to demonstrate value of their of their services via their I like a smart and thoughtful conversation and can answer good questions. You would do great. As a licensed Realtor, this is what we do. And in fact You get to do this with the benefit of also have been able to go to bed at night with a clear conscience knowing that you are getting paid, on average a lot of money relative to the rest of the working world. And you’re doing so with the best interests of your clients in mind. I mean, if you think that wholesaling is for you, real estate, really, I mean, it really could work out great for you that that. The last thing I want to say about this DJ, and I think this is important to say is, even though I think wholesaling is mendacious, and frankly, it’s it’s fraud in a lot of ways. It is a it is a threat to an over regulated industry that is ready and needs change in order to account for the way that business is done in the 21st century and and beyond. And though I think that this particular iteration of change and disruption is harmful on the whole, to most players in the market. Change does need to happen. regulations need to adjust. They need to be loosened in some places tightened in other places, we need to account for the way that business is done in the 21st century. And while I don’t think this is the way to do it, this is this should be a high sign. This should be a lighthouse on the ocean here that says hey, look, there are things happening over here. And we need to adjust to them, we need to change our thinking a little bit as an industry to account for these different approaches. And is this the way to do it? Probably not. But I do think that our industry deserves some disruption and some regulatory change. If this, isn’t it, which I don’t think it should be, we need to think about it in other terms and have those conversations.

D.J. Paris 32:13
Yeah, I’ll just I’ll just end with this as a something that I get I do consider myself a bit outside of the industry, because that was not my background was was not real estate when I came on board here, and I don’t practice real estate. And I have always been absolutely confused. This is a different topic for a different day about real estate commissions and who actually pays them. And that’s something that I feel is murky at best, possibly not intentionally secretive, and sort of confusing, but just by nature of the laws and processes in place. And the standards that we employ can be very difficult to understand for a homeowner who’s either selling or the person buying. And I always find it interesting to ask agents. How do you explain Commission’s you know, to your not what you get paid, but just what the overall commission is and who’s actually paying those fees? And and it’s not as comp? It’s not as simple answer, I don’t feel. And that’s something we’re also, you know, we’re talking about regulation. And maybe we can spend a whole topic on how to have conversations about what real estate commissions are and and who’s responsible for, for paying them. Because that, to me is also very confusing.

Chris Linsell 33:28
Totally, totally. And there are, there are so many different ways that we can improve our process just by educating both ourselves and our consumers and being supported by regulatory bodies and local conditions that facilitate that education rather than hinder it. So if we keep things like wholesaling on the fray and and frankly, if we over regulate in the wrong ways, it’s going to drive people to the unregulated spaces. This is why black markets occur, frankly, because we are providing over regulation that prevents the real flow of information, goods, services and money. And people say like, well shoot, I can do this better on my own. And I know how to do this. And there’s no reason that I shouldn’t do this. So I’m just gonna look out for number one and just do it like this. And that’s not the precedent we want to set as an industry.

D.J. Paris 34:23
Agreed, well, we a great place to wrap up. And just as we’re wrapping up, I want to remind everyone that if you’re not already a current reader and subscriber to the closed.com, it is our absolute recommendation that you start reading their content. 99% of it is free right on their site, and it’s good long form deep dive articles into how to become a better realtor, essentially, how to better improve your business your skills. They go deep, and very few. In fact, I’m not sure of any real estate, blogs or web sites that have this kind of level of journalism, where it’s specifically designed to help agents kind of grow and grow quickly. Can you just mention the subscription model that the close has for anyone who wants to sort of see what, what else the close offers, in addition to all this great free content?

Chris Linsell 35:17
Yeah, absolutely. If you want to come join, if you want to take your business to the next level, and you go a little deeper on the close, you can join the close Pro, close Pro is our premium service. It is the place where we keep all of our fantastic next level courses, our resource library, access to coaching access to webinars that you can’t get anywhere else. We’ve got a fantastic set of training courses, on Facebook and on Instagram and on surviving and thriving and shifting markets and long term lead generation strategies. It just goes on and on and on. We are looking at providing frankly, the next level of service if you are if you like what we do on the clothes come get a personalized level up approach by by accessing the clothes Pro, we offer this at 35 bucks a month 299 for the year. And there are a ton of things that get added to this service every single month. So come check out the closed Pro. And even if you’re not interested in closed Pro, just come come to the close we got all sorts of cool stuff going on. Including like really, really great new content that’s hitting the hitting the wire every day like just today we published or yesterday we published seven real estate, excuse me seven real estate copywriting rules. professional writers swear by Realtors you guys were writing listing descriptions and marketing and branding comm learn from professionals comm check out what we got with this is the sort of content we publish every single day.

D.J. Paris 36:58
We’re big fans, everyone should go to the close.com and read their content, get hooked on it, it will help your business and it’s not the simple five tips to have a successful open house that are things like bake cookies and things you already know. They go they like I said they go deep and wide. And they actually that because they know if the content isn’t good, you’re not going to show up again and the content is good. So please go to the clothes.com. Chris, as always, thank you so much for showing up on our on again, in really going deep in a topic of wholesaling. And for anyone else who if you have ideas of topics that you’d like Chris and I to discuss at length like wholesaling, please let us know. But also, please tell a friend about our show. Think of one other real estate professional that would benefit from hearing this or perhaps send this to homeowners as a way to educate them about wholesaling people that you know, I also see this as a huge opportunity for our listeners who are agents who think well, what do I do about this? Educate your customers, your sphere of influence is a great topic to create social media content about making videos about and really kind of a buyer beware, beware scenario that you get to talk about with everyone, you know. So anyway, hopefully this was helpful. Thank you, Chris. On behalf of Chris and myself. We also thank the entire audience for continuing to listen and support our show and we will see everybody next time. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, TJ.

Welcome to the March episode of Learn With A Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate!

In this episode Joel and DJ discuss the activities Joel’s team organizes and how it helps build and grow a brand. Joel also shares tips on how to make your offer stand out in the market right now and also what should agent tell their clients about the increase in the rates. Last, Joel discusses the mortgage rates at the moment.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at [email protected] and 773.654.2049.

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
As a realtor, how do you grow your brand? We’re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Welcome to another episode of thinking of real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show. And today, once again is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel Schaub from guaranteed rate. Now, Joel is the vice president of lending guaranteed rate, and he’s been doing loans at a high level since 2003. And he’s got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is he gives back part of his commission to the buyer on every transaction. Last year alone, Joe gave back almost $300,000 in closing costs to buyers who worked with him and that puts Joe’s volume at in the top 1/10 of 1% of lenders nationwide. So there’s actually over 400,000 loan officers in the United States. And Joel is currently ranked number number 137. And last year, he closed for his record year it was 619 transactions. And that was for just shy of $250 million to 49 million. And already this year, Joel has closed 70 transactions for $27 million. By the way, 25 and a half million of the 27 million that he’s already done this year, were purchases not refi. So he has not seen a slowdown at all. But if you are looking for a loan officer who can do loans at a high level to close for your clients, we cannot highly more recommended Joel he’s the very best we’ve ever worked with. Joel can be reached on Via email at Joel at get I’m sorry, [email protected] [email protected]. Or you can shoot him a message text message or call him at 773-654-2049. Let’s say hello to the biggest Cubs fan. We know Joel Schaub,

Joel Schaub 3:17
at Hey, DJ, thanks so much for having me on. These accolades, I hear the numbers myself. And none of that matters. It really is about coming on and giving back and really teaching agents to some of the things that I’ve done over the last almost 20 years of lending. We have fun almost every time we do this don’t wait.

D.J. Paris 3:37
Yet we do and I want to before we get started today, I want to mention a couple of things that Joelle has done that I I’m always impressed by. Because I think from a branding perspective, I think, well aside from you running a great business, and you have a great team in place. And we can certainly talk about that. But I always think from a branding perspective, you’re really somebody to admire and really look because I think from branding wise, and I know your brand is really giving, but the way that you present that brand and make sure that the people in your sphere are aware of what activities are important to you. I think you do it better than just about anyone. And I want to mention just a couple of things that that I’ve seen recently from Joel and Joel doesn’t do these for any these are things that Joel just does for for himself and his business. But he really it’s something that is very, very prominent here in Chicago and this is why part of the reason why Joel is so popular. One of the things is Joel was just on the cover of the most recent issue of Chicago agent magazine, he was actually featured they only feature really one lender and their cover per year he was featured this year which is a huge deal. So congratulations there. And also with the of course the recent tragedy, or ongoing tragedy in the Ukraine. Joel took took it upon himself to one of his one of the broker realtors that he works with who I’m actually friendly With and she and I serve on a committee together. Her father is still in, she’s from the Ukraine and her father’s still over there. And her she was able to get her mother out thankfully before the invasion, but still dealing with day to day like checking in with her father and trying to do what she can to raise money for the Ukraine people. And Joel took it upon himself to really push that same message out to his social sphere, so that everyone knew that this is what’s happening. And she’s a newer agent. So she probably doesn’t have a large sphere at this point. And I really, really was impressed by that. And it actually inspired me to take action and donate as well. So Joe, I want to thank you for bringing that sort of to everyone’s attention, even though we’re all watching the war. You know, we’re not always thinking what what can we do to to, to help

Joel Schaub 5:47
you bring up a good point, it’s, it’s community, right? And that’s community on a big world scale. And when we look at our business and talk about it in terms of real estate, how can we come back and be a community in the places in which we work. And so for years, it’s just finding ways to give back and be a force for good, I guess. And that’s what I always tasked my agents with finding things that they’re passionate about, that they can go out and speak on that. Make sure that people see that you’re doing things in your community, that make you a leader and you’ll grow your business, you truly will.

D.J. Paris 6:25
Yeah, well, you you consistently do that during the pandemic, you were doing daily, sort of, I don’t want to say giveaways, but you were doing daily donations, and, and ways to support different, you know, businesses. And, and that that was how, how you guys stayed busy during during that time. And it was, it was really an inspiration to a lot of other realtors and loan officers to see what can I do to contribute. And I know that that is really been the message that ever since you’ve been on our show, you know, every single time we talked about this givers get mentality, which is which is how you live. And this this most recent post about the Ukraine was another example of of you trying to help out and contribute. So I, I applaud you for that, especially because it was a friend of mine, and a friend of yours. And I appreciate, you know, any publicity that that that could be given to them. So they can hopefully end the war as quickly as possible.

Joel Schaub 7:19
And going further back on that DJ, we did 30 Days of Giving. And that was the campaign it was the joke and smack campaign. So during the beginning stages of the pandemic, when restaurants were truly shut down, found 30 different restaurants and bought gift certificates from those restaurants, and then found people that had lost their jobs or were down on their luck and just didn’t know where their next meal was going to come from in partnered with them to give them food. And it was a two edged sword in a positive way to help the people in your community and help the businesses that you love and that you go to when times are good to support them. When times are bad. And that wasn’t my idea. So I have to give a lot of credit DJ to my team. So I know it’s the just called Joel but it’s really just called dual team. And what I really wanted to focus on today, and what we had talked about off air was just getting an understanding if you’re an agent, what a team like mine looks like to get to $250 million of annual production. And you’ll learn a few things that might help you in your day to day business, just hearing who’s on my staff what they do, and how it’s not just a one or two person show we’ve built it up to I have seven team staff members that really help make sure that clients get a white glove experience.

D.J. Paris 8:40
And these meetings are Yeah, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. I was going to say I got so excited because a major distinction. You know, we saw in the news, a, a virtual lender is now laying off an additional 3000 people which are not what we’re talking about when you say your team and of course a totally different company. So guaranteed raise is not in the in the layoff processing thing fully. But a lot of firms are as they’re seeing the slowdown in the number of you know, loan applications and refi is coming in. We’re starting to see some of these bigger sort of faceless, non team structured companies where it’s just a huge bullpen of of people doing all sorts of transactions on on you know, just a simple salary starting to get thinner and getting layoffs and you have an actual team that’s your team. And that’s really significant and unusual in this are unique, I should say not unusual, but unique in this industry. And that really helps you close deals a lot faster.

Joel Schaub 9:41
Agents have told me specifically they had other lenders in the past and what they found was the person they spoke with was great and maybe one other person that was directly working for them was really good as well DJ. But then once it goes into processing or once it’s handed off, you lose all control of the file. In a lot of cases, you’re taking a loan in your home state. And then it’s being underwritten in Cleveland, Ohio, and they don’t know the person so they don’t have the connection. And this business is all connections and knowing the people, so the staff membership for our team, literally is set up where they’re incentivized. So if it’s at four o’clock on a Friday, and there’s a new file coming in, or even if it’s 530, let’s say for five, let’s take a 530 or six, and it’s on a Friday, and there’s a new client coming in, they’re being handled, and they’re being handled with care, versus a lot of places like this is my last call I want to get out of here. We’ve incentivized them in a way where it is family. And we set up around the clock, Saturday and Sunday service so that agents that need a new pre approval, clients that are filing tax returns and need to get a updated letter, these types of requests get handled, not just by an assistant, somebody that’s highly trained and ready to help. And that’s how we’re able to submit offers that are designed to win. Well, let’s

D.J. Paris 11:10
let’s talk about that. Because that is when I go talk to agents, of course, we have a lot here at our own company, but also, when I’m just interacting with agents in the industry. We were just at an event A few weeks ago that I was talking to all these younger agents, and they’re all stressed because their offers are of course, you know, there’s multiple offers still going on, we’re still in a low interest rate environment, and not as much inventory. And so people are wondering, What can I do to, to to get my, my offers noticed? And how do these top agents seem to seem to slide right to the top of the pile when they’re submitting offers. So I know, you have some thoughts about, you know, some best practices there.

Joel Schaub 11:51
Yeah, we’ve been able to actually cut through all of these multiple offer situations. And of course, we don’t want every one of them. But we’re really good at succeeding when there are multiple offers, even if we’re not the highest price, because just a few things that we do right up front that make our offer stand out. Okay. And that’s really what we need to do here is when when these agents and we know we’ve all heard it, we’re calling for highest and best, or the first words highest. But you don’t have to be the highest, you need to be the best. And the best could mean several different things. And what I found recently, is that the listing agents are really looking at who’s doing the financing unless it’s cash, right? Calling the loan officers and I encourage all agents to do this, reach out to the offer and make sure that the person who says that the financing is good. It is good. All right. It’s something that we used to get away from as agents saying, Oh, I think this is fine. I encourage you now absolutely make the phone call and and try to do it on a Saturday or do it after hours, you’ll know right away who the real players are, if you’re getting an answer at 730 on a Monday, or 8am on a Sunday, these are the people that you really want to start partnering with yourself. So here’s what we’ve done DJ, when an offer goes in, and we’re submitting an offer, and we know that there’s multiple offer situations, the buyer’s agent copies me the lender on the offer to the listing agent. Okay, the email goes over where we’re writing the offer. And we’re including the lender. So if you’re a listing agent, and you’re seeing that there’s somebody actually on the other end that’s ready and willing to reply, it puts you at a whole different advantage when you’re the buyer submitting an offer, because you know that the listing agent sees that this looks like an offer that’s got their act together, okay. Then I make the phone call to the listing agent. And I review the specific file and tell them the strengths. And I say, I know that you probably have multiple offers here. Don’t you wish we had five of those properties to sell. It’s a great property. And I just wanted to share just for two minutes, a little bit about this buyer to reassure your sellers, if we come to terms that they’re going to have the easiest transaction, and I go through that. And that helps set us apart. If there’s multiple offers. And no loan officer picks up us making that first phone call to the listing agent to cut through all the clutter.

D.J. Paris 14:19
What and I know you do this, so you might not always know what other loan officers do or don’t do, although I’m sure you probably have a good sense what percentage of loan officers in your experience you know, make those kinds of calls when an offer is being submitted. I assume it’s a pretty rare thing.

Joel Schaub 14:38
But it’s so I encourage the agents right now you are working with good mortgage guys, right? There’s people that you know start asking them if they’re willing to do this for you. Because it goes a long way. I have top agents in our market that are expecting my call now they go What took you so long? Right? They submitted the offer an hour ago, right Took me 40 minutes to call. And it’s, it’s kind of a joke. But the point is they know that I’m going to be calling, I know the file. And I think right now, maybe 10% of loan officers are even being asked to do it. So they probably don’t come and do this on their own. So I don’t know if it’s necessarily the lenders fault. But what it is, is if you’re an agent right now, start implementing this, whoever use for mortgages, connect with them and say, on our next deal, where we’ve lost out, do you mind making a phone call on behalf of our buyer, and just watch it does make a difference. And if you’re a listing agent, or if you do buy and sell hearing this, you know, you would like to know a lot more about the financing, and you’d like to know without you having to call and get somebody on the other end of the phone that says, what file now who, what, you know, that’s a dud, right. So reach out, be proactive, cut through the clutter, copy that your lender on the offer, it’ll go a long way.

D.J. Paris 16:02
And also to like loan officers should really be doing this. I know everyone’s busy. And it’s hard, but also great sort of way to show your your strengths to the listing agent, in case they’re going Gosh, this loan officer is really on top of things, maybe I’ll use he or her on our next transaction. So I imagine it’s, it’s something that is surprising that maybe 10% of the ellos do so yeah. And again, your primary responsibility is to help the borrower and the agent representing the borrower, and that is just really going above and beyond and makes a huge difference when they’re getting, you know, 20 other offers. And most a lot of times agents don’t even call the listing agent, or the sort of representing the buyer saying I just submitted this offer, just wanted to let you know, and most agents, I think don’t even do that. So that’s a really impressive. Here’s

Joel Schaub 16:49
the second one DJ, having the lender, really educate the borrower on what it means to go above asking price, okay, because it’s no secret right now, the good properties have multiple offers, okay, every one of them does. If there’s a good property that hits the market, you’re not the only buyer in town, the sellers hold all the cards, and one of the phrases in highest and best is highest, okay? So we don’t have to be the highest, but we don’t have to be afraid of going above list. And that starts with the loan officer, it really comes down to educating the borrower that if we were to go in 10, grand or even 20 grand above list, because we’ve lost out on other places, and we really want to win this one, if we are 20 grand above, that might mean 90 or $100 difference in payment, it’s not something that’s going to move the needle for most buyers, if they have the ability to go above. But the unknown of what that means means that a lot of buyers don’t. So having a lender really take the time to talk through what the payments look like if you were to go 10 grand above or 20 grand above, so that you as the buyer’s agent aren’t the one informing them, they should go higher and not know what the math is on it. It’s all about education.

D.J. Paris 18:09
And you’re a big fan too, on the pre approval letter to not restrict the the highest of sort of pre approval amount to whatever the offer necessarily is in this particular environment. Right. Your your your, your philosophy is, hey, in a multiple offer situation, you should be able to show some wiggle room that hey, we can we can go up if we need to. And I guess you know, of course, the listing agent, they’re going to look at that they’re going to look and say, well, this person’s only approved for X amount, then there’s a back and forth. Well, it can if we if you go above this, are they still pre approved. And your philosophy is show all your cards because it actually strengthens your hand versus weakens it. I

Joel Schaub 18:52
know I’m gonna get a lot of flack for this. Okay, but closing over $20 million of production. And you know, every single month, I’m seeing something that works. Now, I know we’re gonna get a lot of hate mail saying I don’t want to give away my hand, right? It’s poker, right? If, if my buyer can go all the way up to $800,000. And we’re only offering 725. I want you to put 725 on the letter. And I’ll tell you a lot of agents are right. For years. That was a really good strategy. Right now I want to negotiate it from a point of strength. And I want the sellers to know that of all the offers. Here’s another reason why these buyers are strong. They’re approved for well above the asking price. It doesn’t mean we’re gonna pay 800 Because the house isn’t worth 800 But they are approved at a much higher amount. So if you have multiple offers, here’s another reason that we’re strong. So just try it. If you’re a buyer’s agent, get your lender to update the letter for the highest amount. What are they approved for? Okay, submitting an offer there really shows that a buyer could go buy anything but we’re so interested in your Ross, I hope we can make a deal.

D.J. Paris 20:02
Yeah, it’s this abundance sort of mentality to where it almost creates, I think maybe a slight sense of urgency for the seller to go, oh, this, this person’s a legit player here. And and they can just like you said they could go out and buy other things because they’re approved for hire. I almost think it’s sort of counterintuitive, like you were saying, and, and maybe in other environments that we’re not in today, maybe it would make sense to keep that a little closer to to, you know, to the to the chest. But I think now it’s like, you want to show all your strength. So I think that’s a really strong thing. And that’s also a good sort of check to have a conversation with the loan officer that the agent is using, and saying, What do you think about this? And if they go, no, no, no, we never want to do that. Well, now you have another opinion from somebody who closes a lot of transactions? He says, no, it’s actually a really good idea.

Joel Schaub 20:55
Yeah, yep, you’re absolutely right on that if something isn’t working, let’s try to find ways that we can change it up and partner with people that really know what they’re doing in terms of, are they going to listen to what you say, and try to move the needle so that you don’t have to submit five offers and continue to lose? And it’s hard right now, I’ll be the first to say it. I work with a lot of agents that they come to me all the time. And their number one question is, I see you getting these deals done, what’s the secret, and there really isn’t a secret. It’s just trial and error over all these years. And so being humble goes a long way. I don’t have all the answers at all. But I’ve seen some things that work. And I love sharing those things. And if you’re listening and you get one more deal done, or you can help one more family close on a transaction, you don’t know who they know, maybe they refer you three more people. And that’s the power of positivity, educating and leading with value. Love it. So we’ve covered a couple of ways that it works. And it’s all about the team. So it’s not just me, right? So we touched on this. And so one of the things that we do is I have a great newsletter that goes out weekly that agents literally print out and they put up in their office. And it is it’s timely, it helps agents understand kind of what’s going on, so that they don’t have to be an expert on mortgages. But each week, they have something where they could talk to the borrowers while they’re driving. And it comes from my staff. So Maria is a rock star, Marie, if you’re listening, we love you. And to be added to this list, you can simply email me it’s [email protected], it’s our weekly market update. So you can just send a simple email to say add me and or add me to the market update list. And weekly, then you’ll get really good timely content about interest rates, program changes, and things that you can bring to your borrowers that make you look like a rockstar,

D.J. Paris 22:57
it’s a great place to get good answers to when the clients are saying, you know, I’m reading online that rates are going up. And this is bad. And this is scary. And and you just you sort of take the actual data, and you give agents actionable sort of sound bites, but you know, written sound bites to say, Okay, here’s how to interpret this, here’s what to say, here’s what’s going on. And that’s really what agents need, because they’re oftentimes the first person to to I was just at an event. I’ll just mention this briefly, a couple of weeks ago with about 300 agents. And I was talking to them and saying, Hey, what’s going on? What are your struggles right now? Just because I was curious, because I don’t I don’t go out and produce. And like four or five of the people I talked to out of like seven said, Oh, man rates are going up and I go, Well, I they’re still pretty low. Right? They’re like 4% and, you know, where I don’t know where they’re at today. But but sometimes it was about 4% of the time and and people go guys, that’s still really great. And and they were like yeah, but our clients are freaking out because of course they’re seeing new stories. And and what I love is, is that not that that isn’t something to be concerned about. And of course you should have an answer for it as an agent, but this is where you have a good relationship with your elbow. And you say what do I need to tell my clients how do I calm them down a little bit and and that’s what I love about you is you’re all about education. So I’m just curious are and I know that you know maybe more experienced agents aren’t freaking out but for anyone out there who’s gone oh my gosh, now my purchasing power for my buyers is maybe gone down a little because rates of course, you know, we’re in historic lows, of course they’re gonna go up a little bit. What do you suggest that agents tell their their borrowers or their buyers who are borrowing, you know, to sort of calm the storm a little bit.

Joel Schaub 24:50
Numbers don’t lie. Okay. And so if we actually take the data and see what the difference is on a typical $350,000 loan DJ where rates were at before? Okay, and what that meant for a payment, and then figure out where the $350,000 loan is today with the rates and what that payment is. And then we just compared to what it was any time before the pandemic, right, what you’ll see is it the payments today are still much lower than anytime in 2017 2018 2019. And for that matter, the first decade of the 20 is, you know, what do they call that? It wasn’t the teams, maybe it’s the on off. So the did you just do the data. And that’s what this next week’s market update is going to show is just a simple comparison so that we can talk to our buyers with some confidence and not omit the past that’s recently where rates are lower, but put it into a context to state that. If you’re paying rent, and you’re spending x number of dollars, that’s 100% interest all that money is out the window. So I don’t care if the rates are 2.75, or 4.75. It’s a hell of a lot less than 100%, that we’re throwing out the window. And just teaching and showing them that if you’re moving from homeownership from renting, now’s the time.

D.J. Paris 26:17
Yeah, I remember in the early 2000s, I guess the aughts. They,

Joel Schaub 26:23
largely cheese that’s, my grandmother would say, I

D.J. Paris 26:27
remember remember interest, and maybe they still have these, but interest only loans are really popular. And they were just in like there was like, sometimes under 2%. But and you wouldn’t have to put much down, if any. And it was just a whole different world. It was pre pre 2008 2009. And, and those days are of course long over but it’s like, well, sure, you could think back Well, gosh, I wish I would have locked in it 2% Back in the early 2000s. Except those always those always expired within about three to five, seven years. So it was it was something that that was a very sort of it was an aberration, as just like in the early 80s, when it were in the late 70s When it was double digit, you know, rates were like really good. You got a 12% rate you were a superstar. So like the idea that we’re at 4% now and people are freaking out is is really perspective, it’s about perspective and saying, Hey, this is still really great. And by the way, you know, now that now that its rates have gone up slightly. Yeah, oh, it’s only an extra 50 bucks a month or $100 a month and your mortgage payment, which probably shouldn’t make or break your decision of whether to buy a property.

Joel Schaub 27:35
You’re exactly right. So that again, test me send an email [email protected] and simply say, add me to the list. It could be you can do it from your phone right now, Joel, that rate, add me to the list. And then you’ll get this market update on a weekly basis. And it’ll give you information that you can go back and have good conversations with your local lending partners, and see what we’re doing in our market, how you can do the exact same things in your market partner with people that really want to truly give back to you and partner with you. And in this market, where lending is very vital to completing the transaction. Getting those partners right now are the number one thing I’d be doing. If I was an agent, it’s kind of reassessing who are the people that are really being given access to my friends, family clients, who are the people that I’m going to trust, my Commission’s with, when I go under contract, if they’re not the people that are working nights and weekends, and really being there for you add somebody else to the list, we’d happy to be that person. But the number one thing that we want to talk about here, and we didn’t get to so this is gonna be a teaser for next time is the structure for the team. Right? I want to go through and make sure that everyone knows kind of the anatomy of getting to a $250 million production annually. And even if you don’t have aspirations of getting there, what I’ll explain will really truly help you figure out who’s on your staff that you should keep who was on your staff that might be time to let them go. And who you can add right now, as a lot of people do get downsized with different positions at places, there’s an opportunity to pick up more employees. So we’re gonna go through that for sure next time, but it wouldn’t be a market, or wouldn’t be a update with me without talking about rates for a minute. You’ve mentioned it. So so much of the time. Do we even talk about rates here? Almost never. I know for a mortgage guy, I think we should.

D.J. Paris 29:29
Absolutely, let’s do it.

Joel Schaub 29:31
Right. So on average right now, mortgage rates are anywhere just below 4%. So the high threes to just above 4% When we’re talking about 30 year fixed mortgages DJ with 10 to 20%. Down the average we’ve seen rates that are still in the threes even though the headlines say over 4%. So the fear and what what people are thinking is going to happen is that the Fed Haven’t even raised rates yet. Wow, the rates are all the way up to this amount. And the Fed still haven’t raised rates yet what’s going to happen when they raise rates this year. And I always want to remind people that it’s already baked in, the Fed meets seven times a year and mortgage rates are updated daily. And in this volatility, they’re moving literally, sometimes two or three times a day. There’s new rate sheets printed based on what’s going on. So I like to tell this story that when the feds do raise rates, and it’s, you know, comes across as the headline, it’s a quarter point increase today, they don’t call all the mortgage banks and say, reminder, everyone, today’s the day, increase your rate sheets by a quarter percent. It’s kind of funny, but it’s true. It’s built in. So what how can we use this information to educate our clients? And how can we not be like the other agents that are selling fear? Okay, it’s okay to educate. But what we shouldn’t say is, we should really get this home today, even if you don’t want it, because rates are going to go up a lot. And if you don’t buy this, you’re gonna miss out. Right? I hate that I don’t like it just seems icky, right? It’s not the right way to build a business, it’s not the right way to communicate with people. And it’s just not true. So if you can take some time and educate, just learn about what the Federal Reserve reserve is going to do this year, they’re raising the prime rate, and the prime rate right now is at three and a quarter. And mortgage rates are above it. So we do have a lot of room to move before mortgage rates continually go up. I think by the end of the year, we’re going to be in that mid fours. But I don’t see a situation anytime this year, where all of a sudden, because the feds have raised rates that we go from under four to five or 6%. And I’ll buy you a steak dinner if I’m wrong. But I’m right, we won’t see the 30 year fixed rate be at five or 6%, they’re going to be in that range either a little bit below for a little bit above for for most of this year, even when the Fed start to raise rates. So as an agent, take that knowledge and educate your clients and make sure that you win because somebody else might be selling them fear, you’re okay, rates will be good. Go find the right home for you. And don’t worry if it’s 4.1 or 4.3.

D.J. Paris 32:27
Yeah, it’s it’s a really good point. And, you know, this is I always say, you should know what your clients are reading and what they’re absorbing and the news and then adjust, you can educate to adjust to their expectation and, and you know, and that’s, that’s really what, what, what just people want is they want somebody that goes, Hey, don’t worry about that. Well, not that don’t worry about it, but here’s what you’re reading, here’s the reality, they want education, and they want comfort, and we’re thankfully it’s there, the sky isn’t falling. So there’s so sky is not falling, when to make sure I didn’t sort of blur my words, the sky is not falling. This is. So this is really a great opportunity to realign your clients with and maybe getting them above the signal to noise ratio is making sure that the signals coming through and they’re maybe not paying attention as much to the noise that may be just the media hype to try to get some some clicksor eyeballs on, you know, a shocking headline. So, Joel, you gave us so much great value today. And I think it’s a great place to wrap up. We want to remind everyone out there if you’re not currently partnered with a loan officer, that is helping you actually grow your business, not just helping you close the transactions, because of course, you know, blown loan officers do that that’s their job, but actually helping you strategically do marketing partner up together in events, and are actually saying what can I do to help you Mr. And Mrs. Agent grow your business, then you really need to maybe consider finding a loan officer that can do that. And we really encourage you to take a look at Joel and his team. The easiest way to reach out to Joel to see if you guys can work together is to shoot him an email. Best email you can find them at is [email protected]. Very easy to remember [email protected] You can also email him to ask to be put on his weekly newsletter that he mentioned earlier. And then you can also call him directly Joel, do you mind giving out your phone number and suit and text message as well?

Joel Schaub 34:30
773-654-2049 And if you call that mean test me literally we answer the phone. And I can’t tell you the number of fun conversations I’ve had just from people all across the United States where they call they book a 15 minute call with me and it’s it’s just so great to see what people are doing in different markets. And it doesn’t always mean that we end up doing business together. But it’s another way that I like to give back so Oh, yeah, that number is the direct line. That’s not text messaging. So for emails, Joelle that rate, and then the phone number 773-654-2049. And that’ll be for phone calls directly to me.

D.J. Paris 35:14
Perfect. Perfect. So yeah, don’t don’t text that number. That’s his office line, my apologies there. But definitely email or call that number and he and his team will get right back to you. And, and I’ve used them personally. So I can vouch for, for for Joel, he’s excellent. He’s the only loan officer I’m going to ever work with. Because he did a great job for me. And he does a great job for everyone. Which is why of course he’s so successful. So definitely reach out to him. If you’re not getting the attention you need from your your existing loan officer. He’s with guaranteed rate Joel is and they’re licensed in all 50 states so they can help you no matter where you might be practicing. So thank you so much. We’ll go wrap up the episode, Joel, appreciate your time. And once again, you come on our show every month, you gave great content, great, valuable insight into what’s going on in the lending world. But more. On top of that, you’re really saying, Here’s how to grow your business, which like you said, we rarely even talk about rate. So I’m so grateful that you do really Joel really thinks about what he wants to communicate. And he’s constantly asking me before we get on the air, what does the audience want to hear about these days? Like, where are they struggling? And then we come up with ideas. And really, that is the best possible question a guest could ever ask me, and very few guests ever do. So I really appreciate Joel coming on and saying how can I add value time and time again. So thank you on behalf of the audience for that. And on behalf of Joel and myself, we want to thank the audience for continuing to show up. Listen, watch, support our show, please reach out to Joel for any and all lending needs. And also, please tell a friend about this podcast. Just think of one other agent that could benefit from hearing from top producers and top loan officers like Joel send them a link to our website, keeping it real pod.com. And we appreciate that helps us continue to grow as well. So thank you so much to Joel and of course on behalf of Joel and myself. Thanks to everyone and we will see Joel next month. So we wish everyone a great rest of the spring season here. And we’ll we’ll talk to you next next time. Thanks Joel.

Joel Schaub 37:14
You’re welcome DJ

In this episode of Little Sparks Krista talks about what it is like being a woman in real estate. Krista shares a recent incident she had and how it made her think about this issue and what she did about it.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Please subscribe to F.I.R.E.D. Up podcast here.

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Today Christie is going to talk about what it’s like to be a woman in real estate. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris today is our newest series called little sparks with Krista make sure Chris is going on every month to talk about very specific tips and strategies. She’s used to take her business to the next level. But today we’re going to be talking about what it’s like to be a woman in real estate. But before we get to Krista, just a couple of quick announcements please remember to tell a friend about this show. Think of one other agent that you know could benefit from listening to top producers like Krista send them a link over to our website keeping it real pod.com Every place you can listen to our at our show can be linked to from our website, keeping it real pod.com And follow us on Facebook facebook.com forward slash keeping it real pod. But enough about me. Let’s get on to the main event. Here we are with Chris Demacia.

Krista Mashore 2:26
I’m super excited to be able to be doing this podcast right now. Little sparks. This is a keepin it real podcast. And so I’m super excited to have you here right now. So listen, we’re going to talk today about being a woman in real estate. Now. I don’t care if you’re a man, I want you to listen to this right? And it’s so funny when they asked me if I would do keepin it real, real podcast, little sparks. And they said, Can you talk about like women issues and the kind of issues that women go through in real estate? And I said, you know, I don’t really think I’ve ever really had any issues. And that’s really not true. One of the issues that I have had is that I remember people used to always tell me for years, Christina, you do so well in real estate, because you’re cute. And I would be thinking like you just keep on thinking that that’s why I do well, why keep kicking your butt because I’m innovative. I use technology, social media, and I try to always be as different as possible. But that’s not what I want to talk about right now. What I was talking about incident happened to me recently, and it was really it really, really kind of opened my eyes a little bit. So I was asked to speak. So first of all, let me just tell you, my team has been wanting to get me on stage with Gary Vaynerchuk for a four and a half years for a very, very long time. Right. And so finally, we got the opportunity to be on stage with Gary Vaynerchuk. So they asked me if I’d be on a panel. I said absolutely, yes. I didn’t do any research on it yet. I know the people that asked me I really liked the glass and I respect them. But once I went and did the research on the on the the event, it was a live event. I looked in their work 12 Male Speakers, not one woman speaker was on there. And I was like, I just felt so gross about it. And I know that sounds harsh, but I was thinking to myself, I think like 65% of real estate agents are women. And when I went to this panel, you know, their landing page, and it was all men, 12 men, no women were on there. I couldn’t do it. So I sent them an email and I said, Listen, I just have to be very honest with you. I know I said yes. And I always keep my commitments. But I should have done more research when I said yes. My team really has been excited about getting me on stage with Gary Vaynerchuk. I have to respectfully decline of being on here. And I was very honest. I said, I feel like this is a sausage festival. So when I go to this your landing page, it’s like a sausage festival. And it looks like it’s all men are no women. I said I’m gonna let you know that. I noticed it. And I can guarantee you that other women when they go to this to your website, your landing page, they’re seeing the exact same thing. They’re noticing that there are no women in there and they most likely are feeling the same way that I am. So what I ended up doing was I said listen, I stand a lot I study and analyze marketing like I’m an absolute marketing genius, right? I don’t mean that to sound conceited, but I’ve generated millions and millions of dollars online. I specialize in digital marketing, you know, we have we have over, we’re just, we’re just applied for our $8 million sales funnel, we got our, we have our 10x, or we have our two CC X ray, which is showing that we’ve done over $25 million online not in like we’ve sold that, like we’ve, we’ve generated in revenue over $25 million online in the last four years, actually, like 32 million. And so we know something about marketing online. And I was like, if I go to this landing page, and I feel that way, I know that there’s other women that feel the same. And so I sent it to to to Edwin, and without me even asking for their feedback, both of them said the exact same thing. They were like, where is all the women like this is this looks like a anyways, I won’t even deal with this if it wasn’t appropriate, right? So I want you to think about those kinds of things. Like when you’re, when you’re having events, when you’re putting on you know, anything, I want you to think about how can I make this as diverse as possible? How can I think about different ethnic ethnic groups? ethnicities, right? Male, female, different ages, different, you know, everything, even different levels of people in business, because it does matter. And people, people do count right. Now, I know most of you aren’t putting on, you know, these big major things. But it made me think about that. And I was so turned off by it, that I declined. And what they said was they said, Christa, we would like to have you be one of our main speakers, and we are going to get more women, we promise you, we’re going to get more women. So they ended up getting more women

on the panels. And it was really, really good thing. And here’s the cool thing about I told my daughter about it, and my daughter, like literally started crying, she’s like, Mom, I am so proud of you, that you and I will tell you, I’m not like this woman’s movement, like I love women, I love supporting women, I like more than anything, I love you Boss Babes out there, right? But I’m not like this, like super crazy, you know, ultra or whatever. But it bothered me and it made me just be so so much more cautious. I always try in, in my marketing, to meet to think about that. So in your own marketing, whether it’s your flyers or videos you’re creating or, you know, if you’re if you’re doing any kind of interview panels, or whatever you’re doing, try to think about, you know, everybody that you’re going after, you don’t just want to go after all God, all men or all women, or whatever it might be, you want to probably go after, you know, for something like that, you want to think about diversity, okay, think about diversity. And that kind of relates me to a really good point, one of the things that I’ve always done in real estate was I always try when I have great experiences, which I typically do with my clients, I always try to get a testimonial from them. And I love getting video testimonials. And if I’m going on a listing appointment, and I know that they’re let’s just say I’m going on a listing appointment with somebody who’s elderly, I like to have some elderly testimonials in there, right? Because people want to be able to see that I’ve worked with people that are like them, I’ll be able to relate and that kind of thing that makes people feel comfortable. So think about that. I know this is kind of a rat kind of a rave, but it just, it really, really did bother me. And but I was proud of myself, I stood up for myself or myself or for women out there. I said I’m not going to be on it. And then they ended up getting more so it was like super super victory with that with that goes. And we did get to speak on the same stage as Gary Vaynerchuk. And Ryan serhant. And Bradley and by the way, Bradley is just so handsome. So handsome. I got to take a picture, then that was really, really fun. Okay, so think about that your marketing, think about you know who you’re going after. Now that’s not that’s not to say you would do that if you were niching. Right now, what’s niching? Well, niching is when you go after a specific type of client or a specific type of client avatar, a specific type of let’s just say you want to do FHA properties, or you want to do want to work with veterans or you want to work with people that are retiring people that are moving up that are moving down, you want to work with home buyers that are that have small children you want to work with sell home sellers that are selling out of x area and moving into my neighborhood, like we can go on and on all day long about niching about client avatar. Now if you are a niche, or you have a specific client avatar, then obviously you want your marketing and your branding and your messaging and your content, your videos to speak directly to those people. And the more that your messaging and your branding speaks directly to somebody the more likely they’re actually going to convert. So I hope this was helpful. I know it’s kind of a quick one. Just a quick little rant and rave and I’m gonna try to do another one as well. So you don’t just get the seven minute one but thanks for watching Chris Demeter here. And so so glad to have you I have my own podcast called fired up. And I’m just so honored to be able to be sharing sharing via the stage here in the podcast with with keep it real podcast. So thank you have a good day everyone.

Welcome to our quarterly feature, Social Bootcamp With Gogo Bethke!

In this episode, Gogo and DJ discuss what is attraction and how to participate in it. Gogo also goes back to the beginning of her career in real estate. Next, Gogo discusses the importance of understanding your hourly rate and how to calculate it. Gogo also shares tips on how to set up systems, control your income and the hires you should make in order to unload your burden and grow your business. Last, Gogo describes her bootcamp and what agents can benefit from it.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Gogo Bethke can be reached at [email protected] and at her Instagram account.

Purchase Gogo’s Bootcamp by clicking here – Keeping It Real Podcast listeners get a discount!

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
As a realtor, do you know your hourly rate? We’re going to figure that out today and explain why it’s the most important number in your business. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show.

Today on the show we have our monthly series called Social bootcamp with gogo Beth key. Now gogo Beth key came to the United States in 2003. To build her American dream she was broke. She had no real estate experience no sphere of influence barely spoke English and only $6 to her name. So that left her with nothing other than Facebook to help build her business which is where she started. She created gogos real estate and began her real estate career. Now with the power of social media Google has sold over I don’t need this is an old number. It’s got to be probably close to $200 million dollars in real estate transactions probably more. She shares the good the bad the ugly of real estate and her honest snippets into her daily life has earned her 10s of 1000s of social media followers in the real estate community and she has earned the nickname The Queen of social media as are being asked to present at various conferences and events with realtors. She built her own social media bootcamp, which is the greatest boot camp out there for realtors called gogos bootcamp. Today she has a team of over 800 agents nationwide. Her goal is to help as many agents as possible make a name for themselves in real estate utilizing social media. Now if she can do it, this girl from Transylvania Romania with no formal US education, no sphere of influence, no money, no experience, and an accent. Anyone can do it as well please follow gogo on Instagram at gogos real estate so at gogos real estate G O gos real estate and also please please please consider investing in her bootcamp visit Gogo podcast.com It’s the greatest platform we we were the only platform we recommend for agents to learn how to get Social Media Domination for real estate stuff. Real Estate Leads gogo we are old friends I am so glad to have you on the show.

Gogo Bethke 3:37
Thank you so much for having me again. I feel like I haven’t seen you in a while though.

D.J. Paris 3:41
I know we haven’t seen each other in a bit and gogo has exploded and we have to talk about this because I’m jealous of you at you have I have spent the last 12 years recruiting real estate agents and I only have 800 Real estate agents go go blown past me in about a three year two to three year period doing the same thing and the reason I’m bringing this up is because the way in which she attracts agents into her group is the exact same way you can attract buyers and sellers into your sphere of influence.

Gogo Bethke 4:16
Yeah, everything I do I like to do it with attraction right? I don’t cold call even in the real estate side of things. I cannot beg people for their business. Instead I do it in a way where they decide when they want to work with me right so they call me or text me or email me or whatever avenue they choose. But they entered themselves into my life. So it’s attraction on all sides.

D.J. Paris 4:35
Yeah, let’s talk about that. What is attraction and how do we participate in it?

Gogo Bethke 4:40
So I mean that’s a great question. I don’t think I ever stopped it really like dissect what is attraction but to me what that means is like we all have our energy we all have our character, right? We all have like the things that we stand for and our ethics and stuff and if you allow it to get out to the world, right so I use the avenues social media to allow people to get to know me, but by sharing Who I am in the world. This way I attract the people who are just like me, because the ones that can send my accent in never going to call me to sell a house, right? So by attracting meaning now I’m so sad pre selecting, unknowingly, people that want to do business with me, by allowing them to get to know me when they get to know me, they trust me. And as soon as I earn their trust, they’ll buy something from me right there by my services. So being a realtor, we don’t sell real estate, we sell ourselves and our services. And that’s what I need to convince them over time, I need to convince them so they choose to work with me versus working with the rest of the world where 4 million realtors in this country and same with Agent attraction, right, especially with the brokerage and I am better viewers, you want those agents to come and work with you. You don’t want them to go to doors down to another brokerage and sign up, right. So it’s attraction, I’m attracting the people that want to run business the way I want to run business, we have the same principles. And then they come to me.

D.J. Paris 5:55
If you didn’t start in a major metropolitan area, I mean, I know you’ve been on our show for years and years and most of our audience knows your your, your story, but I always like to go back to the beginning. You this you you started your real estate practice in a relatively rural area, right?

Gogo Bethke 6:13
Yeah. So even when I you know how in the US you fill out official paperwork, and there is no thing of like village it’s everything’s a city. Right. And I was so mad when I moved here initially, because I googled the definition of a city, right? And I can’t remember it was long, long time ago, but it was like a large population maybe like 200,000 Plus, right? Don’t quote me on it. I don’t remember what the number was. I live. I live in a city guys that has the population of 9000. At the time when I moved here, we had one gas station and one grocery store. No restaurants still to the day. We don’t have a single coffee shop besides the Starbucks that’s inside of a grocery store. And that’s like the only one in like 50 mile radius, right. So it’s as I like to call it the boonies. the boonies of Michigan, it’s we live off of a dirt road, everybody pretty much has an acre, right that they live on, you can wave to your neighbor, right. It’s a it’s a totally different life of actually where I live compared to how I live. Yeah. That like metropolitan city, travel, foodie, all of that stuff, right? trips and Olympic in Michigan.

D.J. Paris 7:18
Yeah, I think that’s really important too. Because there probably aren’t a lot of people who sound like you in your in your lives. Probably not a lot of Romanians in Central Michigan.

Gogo Bethke 7:29
No, no diversity rate here is less than 1%. So I mean, I put it this way, if I don’t open my mouth, you can’t tell that I’m not from here, right. But as soon as I open my mouth, you can’t.

D.J. Paris 7:42
And yet here you are, despite not being your native, this being English being your native language, and you have just completely dominated in this space. And you did it all through social media. And I know our audience already already knows that watch agents be doing now these days in social media.

Gogo Bethke 8:04
So I actually well, it’s kind of social media, right? Like everything I do is social media is all like, as they say every road leads leads wrong, right? Like everything I do is powered with social media. But what I really wanted to talk about today is understanding your hourly rate, even though it does apply to social media too, right? Like, should I be doing this? Should I be spending three hours DMing people or should I hire somebody to DM people, right? So I wanted to talk about because I just had a presentation in Nashville. So I wanted to talk about calculating your hourly rate and knowing what you’re worth and understanding like, should I be doing this task anymore? grayed out,

D.J. Paris 8:43
because we to slow this down just for a moment we’re talking about. We’re in real estate. This is a transactional business in nature. And now we’re going to figure out what our hourly rate would be and where we should devote our time.

Gogo Bethke 8:59
Sounds good. Yep. And in a sense, it will all tie back to social media and everything else that you do. Can I share my screen? Yes.

Would you disable it then? So right next to share screen, there should be a little arrow up and hit that and allow everyone please. There you go. What’s awesome, there we go. Well, where did my There we go. And share screen. Can you see my screen?

D.J. Paris 9:42
We can.

Gogo Bethke 9:44
Awesome. Let’s do this. This is the first time we actually do a presentation. We’ve never done that before. It was always just kind of question based. But I figured since I have this, let’s fly through it because this way I can share more information. I’m going to skip who I am right So I’m all about systems, I like to break things down, I like to stop for a minute, take a 10,000 foot view of my life out of my business life, and then just kind of figure out how am I going to make millions? And what is it going to take to get there and what systems I have to have in places and you know what people that have to be in my life, and then I’ll break it down backwards, meaning I know my end goal, I know where I’m at. And I’m going to stop, take a 10,000 foot view, and I’m going to say, Okay, what do I need to do today? To get one step closer? What do I need to get done in a week? What do I need to get done in a month? And then what do I need to get the new year to get to that end result? Now in order? I am the main, the major word in there was what do I have to get done? Right? So because everything else, I want you to pay attention to that, because at the end of the presentation, I want you to stop and think, what are the tasks that you can hire out, so you no longer doing it? Because it’s not worth your time. But in order to figure out what’s what your time, we have to figure out what your time is worth. Right? So let’s get into that. It’s very simple. It’s just math. I love numbers, because I don’t have to translate it in my mind. So when I look at numbers, I can look at it in English, or I can look at it in Hungarian and Romanian is the same meaning, right? So number is just mad. Also, when it comes to math, guys, when you’re trying to make a business decision, I want you to make a business decision based on your bottom line, not based on a feeling right. So I don’t do feelings in business. I don’t do like to I feel like doing that for the rest of my life. Maybe you do. Maybe you want to continue doing that and rest of your life. But what if it’s not worth it? Right? So that’s how you want to remove feelings and make it based on Matt dollar. Money. That’s how we get paid. Right? Did you if you have any questions at any time, just stop me. I don’t want a monologue the whole time?

D.J. Paris 11:45
No, no, no, no, this is really great. And what I want our audience to understand is gogo is giving you her exact strategies that she uses and her her values or thoughts, her philosophies about social media, and you can take bits and pieces of it. And then you know really start to accelerate your your reach.

Gogo Bethke 12:07
Yeah, because even though everything started for me with social media, right, if you want to build an empire, it requires systems and it requires people you cannot do it alone, right. So even though all of this ties back and everything is gets fed into all of my businesses from social media, you still have to have the backend under control as well. So you can scale it. And this is where we’re going to start with your hourly rate to see who should be your first hire. Right? So I’m going to talk about the story, the very expensive load of laundry. So I had a coach, a real estate coach in my fifth year of real estate, and I was paying $1,000 an hour. And she was amazing. And I was doing a load of laundry where I was talking to her. And she says What are you doing? And I’m like, I’m a woman, like I can multitask. Like I can run a load of laundry and talk to you on the phone like how like, that’s not hard, right? But the truth is, was I truly paying attention to her? Was I taking notes? Was I understanding what she was talking about? And most importantly, if I didn’t take notes, did I even know what to implement after the call? No, I wasn’t right. So if you’re paying for something, or if you’re doing something that’s costing you a certain or money, a certain amount of money in that hour, you have to give it all your full attention. So you should not be running a load of laundry while you’re on a coaching call, right? Because it’s not your time best friend. And also there are certain things on your calendar that you do every single day that you are going to stop doing after this conversation that we are having here today. So one question, though, do you feel like your income is in your control? So as an agent, do you feel like your commission income by the end of the year is in your control? If you said no. Go ahead.

D.J. Paris 13:40
Yeah, it’s a good question. Because agents typically think of the first of the month is starting over.

Gogo Bethke 13:47
Yeah. Right. You’re employed because you got a new listing, you saw the listing, unemployed, you got a new buyer employed, you got him a house unemployed, right? Is that employed unemployed roller coaster, but But I remember when I never knew where my next one is going to come from. Right. Like I was so excited. I’m getting a commission on this one. But I never knew where the next one is going to come from. Right. And this is what I’m talking about is controlling not only where it’s going to come from, but what is going to come to you, right, because if you don’t have a plan, you could be getting a $40,000 weekend plan or a $2.4 million listing, right, you have no idea and everything in between. So I want you to understand that what you post on social media, it has a direct correlation to the commission that you’re going to collect. So in this case, if you can see my screen and if you’re listening then let me tell you what you see on my screen. Let me ask you this question. If you posted on your social media, a $200,000 home, right, what type of buyers do you think are going to look at that post?

D.J. Paris 14:47
Want to buy $200,000 homes?

Gogo Bethke 14:49
Exactly. So you’re going to make approximately a $6,000 commission if you charge 3% Right. How about if you posted a $500,000 home what kind of buyers are going to find

D.J. Paris 14:59
well People who can afford $500,000 homes

Gogo Bethke 15:03
you’re collecting now a $15,000 commission is the word or is it a tool?

D.J. Paris 15:08
It’s exactly the same work.

Gogo Bethke 15:10
So now we are talking a $9,000 difference for doing exactly the same thing. Right? So your commission is exactly it’s a 100% in your control. So keep that in mind. You’re not You’re not posting to post you are posting because you’re searching for a certain style of buyer or persons that for certain style of seller, right? Keep that in mind. Okay, now that you know that it’s in your control, let’s calculate your hourly rate. This is one of my favorite things to do. So let’s assume that on the buy side, you have a $15,000 commission, I did the math with a 15,000. Commission, because where I was going, the price ranges in that state were a little higher than Michigan, right? But let’s for the sake of the math $15,000 commission on the buy side, how many hours do you feel like you spent with the buyer. And here’s what I’m asking you, from the moment that you took that initial phone call to the Chitty chat with them, right? To meet them at a property to explain them how you work, Kevin signed a contract showing some properties, go back or get them under contract by the contract, right? Get them under contract, then go back and do the inspection, maybe go meet the appraisal, do a final walkthrough and go to the closing and negotiate in the middle and some phone calls, right. So I calculated the math with 12 hours work. So with every buyer driving here, and there are new contracts, and yada yada calculated, you’re going to work in average about 12 hours with each buyer. If that’s the case, your hourly rate on the buy side is 1250 bucks. Now let’s calculate it on the listing side. So on the listing side, let’s assume same thing $15,000 Commission, but the truth is, and the listing side, you don’t need to spend as much time with them, right? Because that whole shopping for houses driving from here to there and drive to there. And back to the inspection and final walkthrough. You don’t have to do any of that on the listing side, right. So that four hours working with that seller down to seven. My research shows in average work about seven hours to the seller. And I

D.J. Paris 17:01
want to pause for a moment. So we’re talking about buy side versus listing side. And listing side being almost almost half as resistant. To listing side being half as almost half as much work.

Gogo Bethke 17:20
Yeah. And making twice the amount of money. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, right. Yeah. Right. So you working seven hours instead of 12. And making $2,143 per hour versus making 1002 50. So same and commission, last hour worked higher hourly rate. So in this case scenario, right, which side? Should you spend more time on? Why should you concentrate with your buyers and with your sellers?

D.J. Paris 17:50
Yeah, it’s pretty clear that sellers are where it is at. And now now that we know our hourly rate, sort of where do we go from here?

Gogo Bethke 18:02
Yeah. So now then, you know, you already read let’s figure out where should you be spending your time? Should you be responding to emails? Should you be working on your calendar? How about DMS and posts and scheduling trips and scheduling events and podcasts and creating presentation and your offers and treating them names and sending it over to Title Company and back to the lender and answering phone calls and doing the negotiation and showing up for listing appointment and going to you know, I mean, like walking your dog running a load of laundry? Like all of these things, right? Like all of your trackers and calls and affiliates and gifts and everything that you do right? Closing? Yes. Should you be buying your own closing gifts? Right? That’s what we need to figure out. What’s what your time from now on. So let’s work smarter, not harder. My goal is when when agents say when I asked them what their goal is, and they say, I want to double my transactions. And I’m thinking to myself, why? Because you want to work twice as hard next year, right? You don’t want to double your transactions, you want to double your income, you want to work less and make more money. And that’s why it’s working smarter, not harder, right. So one of the first hires you should have is a transaction coordinator. That was my dear.

D.J. Paris 19:11
I’m a big fan of transaction coordinators. And this is something that oftentimes real estate agents are just it’s just not in their particular skill set or wheelhouse. This is something you can offload to somebody who maybe they’re virtual, maybe they’re in person. And for a pretty reasonable fee, they will take care of all of the paperwork for you.

Gogo Bethke 19:36
Yeah, and transaction coordination coordinators usually don’t get paid if unless you get paid. Right. You could be working on the deal for four weeks. if the deal falls apart. You don’t get paid, they don’t get paid. So I love that because they have a reason to get you to the closing table. A transaction coordinator should charge somewhere in the average of 300 to $500 per deal, right? So when you close you collect your 15,000 commission that’s up and 350 right to do do paperwork for you. But now stop for a second and think I know transactions. So let’s say you’re working with a seller, right? How many hours you push paper from the moment that they decide to list with you, right? You write all of your contracts and the initials and the signatures and the yada, yada, then then they sign it. Now you’re going to have to get the app the listing active, you’re gonna have to put it into the MLS and get it active. After it’s active, you’re going to have to do like ordering your photos and all of that stuff, right? Then you have to communicate back and forth and print the attendance while you negotiate. Right, have to make sure all parties have all of your agenda items, and everybody had a copy of everything. Then the closing docs come in, you have to review the closing docs, and you have to go to the closing. Right. So with the paperwork portion of your job, what do you think DJ? Is the average that agents work on people? We’re going to file?

D.J. Paris 20:46
How many hours? Yeah, I would say, Gosh, a lot of hours, couple of 10 hours, 1012 hours?

Gogo Bethke 20:55
You think so I calculated with two to three hours? Wow. Maybe I work faster than before, right? Yeah, what I calculated because eventually, if you do many transactions, you should know your contracts in and out like I can, I can write a purchase agreement and present an offer in five minutes, right? I just like I know where I need to go on the purchase agreement, price EMD terms that are a red arrow sign here, right? So I calculate it three hours. Now let’s say you’re on the listing side, you remember our hourly rate on the listing side was 2143. Out $43. So if we take that. So 2143 times three hours, let’s say at $6,429. So that’s what it’s costing you to do your own paperwork. $1,429, if you hired it out, it would be anywhere from three to $500. So if I said, I need you in the middle, if I said give me 400 bucks, and I give you 6400 back, would you do it? Yes. Right. But it only works. If now you remove those three hours from your plate, give it to TC, but in these three hours, you’re going to lead generate or do whatever it takes you to get that new lead rider to replace that next $15,000 Commission. Because if you’re going to be sipping mimosas, poolside in those three hours, then the math doesn’t work. Because at that point, the TC becomes an expense, right? So while somebody is working for you, in those three hours that you just freed up for yourself, now you’re going to take those three hours and turn it into lead generation activity, so you can make sure you can get that nice listing or that next buyer. Right,

D.J. Paris 22:33
yeah, I think we’re really what we’re talking about is determining that expanding somebody’s awareness to be able to have people help you from all over the globe, all over this planet, that are going to bid for your business that can do this, you know, at at the times that you need it be done at a rate that is reasonable. And getting it off your plate so that you can of course, can focus on business building activities.

Gogo Bethke 23:07
Yeah, we have our own TC company and our T C’s are licensed in every state in the US. And and they can work with what is it called attorney, Attorney states and title states too. So you make sure whoever you’re working with, they can do all that for you. But here’s another thing, though, this doesn’t apply in every single state. But in some states, if you’re allowed to charge a transaction fee. So in Michigan, we charge a 495 transaction fee to our sellers and our buyers, out of the 495. I can also justify my TC, right, so I get full commission plus transaction fee from which I pay my own TC so I no longer push paper.

D.J. Paris 23:44
It’s really, really, really brilliant. You said it’s so quickly and and impressively that you know, you can build the price of the T the transaction coordinator into the commission.

Gogo Bethke 23:57
Yeah, but even if you did it even if you can charge a transaction fee right in your state, because not most but quite a few states don’t allow it or transaction fee or a broker fee as we call it in Michigan. So even if you can’t charge it, in my opinion, if you promise yourself and in those three hours, you’re going to get yourself another seller, you’re still making $6,400 versus new or you will be making 6400 but you pay 400 of that to the TC but you still are 6000 positive even after you pay the TC even if you have to pay it out of your commission

D.J. Paris 24:29
Yeah, I think this is really a great example of business entrepreneurship and really thinking about beyond the the immediate transaction right trying to figure out where can I spend the most amount of my time to get the the highest ROI return on investment. This you know, go go teaches this to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of agents all over the country. 1000s Actually, and we really encourage everyone When listening to go visit Go, go, go goes bootcamp.com, which is Go Go’s bootcamp Gog O. S boot camp.com. And check out her. Her echo system is absolutely incredible. She’s got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of agents who are in sheet goes on there. Actually, let’s tell the audience about your boot camp. Okay,

Gogo Bethke 25:24
well, let’s start with the original. As we started talking, right, everything that I do I in and grounds and grows from, I should say social media. And so the very first boot camp was Google’s boot camp Social Media course. In there, I teach everything about branding, how I built my brand, how I lead generate with my brand, right, I teach it to other agents, so they can do the same. I never bought a lead in my life. So my goal is to be able to teach agents how to fish for themselves, right not to get a fish from the Zelos and whatever, third party companies, but to actually learn to fish for yourself and put leads on the table for yourself. And then also, my main goal is affiliate income, I don’t even know I have 3040 different affiliate incomes. Now, most of my income, about 95% of my income is passive. So it’s not just about generating yourself that next lead but also generating yourself passive income, because Warren Buffett says, if you can figure out a way how to make money while you’re asleep, you will never be wealthy. And I had to figure out because commission is active, right, which means I have to actually turn time into money. Which means no matter how good you are, at some point, you’re going to hit a ceiling. Right? There’s only one of you, there’s only 24 hours. So the only way you could potentially sell more homes, right? Everybody has a ceiling mine was 52 deals in a year. And I was like that’s it, not one more I can sell without losing my mind. So the only other way I could have made more money in that scenario, if I upped my price range or created more enemies, right. So eventually you’re going to have to grow and in order if you’re not ready necessarily to grow that team, then you have to create your your yourself more time. And by hiring certain things off of your plate. Now you can create yourself more time. There’s a second half of this presentation. These are just TCS, which will remove the transaction coordination off of your plate, the paper pushing, but the next step is really to remove everything off of your plate that doesn’t serve you which will be virtual assistants so or in person assistance. So I have an exercise for that. That’s called the red light green light exercise. I don’t know how much time you assigned for this today, but maybe we can do that on the next call. It is your

D.J. Paris 27:22
Yeah, well, I’d love the red light green light idea. Yeah. So what we’re really talking about is running this like a business and gogo is a perfect example of somebody who went from personal production to now managing a huge, huge network of agents. And please, everybody who is listening to the show, go check out Gogo podcast.com Subscribe to her bootcamp get into her echo system. She has an amazing coaching and mentoring program. Gogo podcast.com. On behalf of all of our listeners, we really appreciate gogo she is one of the top producers at her company exp. We’re so thrilled to have her on the show and see her continue to just sell. Gosh, you must have had a record year last year I’m assuming your question for you.

Gogo Bethke 28:18
I got voted top 125 Most Influential People on the globe alongside Tony Robbins, Grant Cardone Wilson, all of these people by Success Magazine this year.

D.J. Paris 28:31
Congratulations. Go go first Success Magazine accolade there that is really, really amazing. Congratulations.

Gogo Bethke 28:41
That’s the only reason I exist, right? Because I put myself out there like what and shut up. And now they know I exist.

D.J. Paris 28:48
And you do exist and so everyone listening, please check out go go learn about learn from her Gogo podcast.com. But on behalf of gogo and myself, we say thank you, we appreciate you listening to our show, please tell a friend I think of one other real estate agent that could benefit from hearing this great conversation we had about expanding your business and hiring a virtual assistant transaction coordinator and also reach send them a link to this episode. So you can send them right over to keeping it real pod.com all of our episodes can be streamed right there or they can any podcast app that they are using. They can search for keeping it real and hit the subscribe button. So thank you, gogo once again. You’ve been with us for years. And we are so thrilled to have you once again. And for everyone else who is listening we have on behalf of Google and myself we say thank you.

Gogo Bethke 29:44
Thank you so much for having me next time I walk you through the red light green light exercise to learn what to remove from your plate and who to hire an in person assistant or a virtual assistant first so you can remove more stuff off your plate. Create yourself even more time to make more money.

D.J. Paris 30:00
Great teaser for next time. All right, thank you go go and we’ll see everybody on the next episode.

Gogo Bethke 30:06
Thank you guys

Kelsey Charles the leader of The Kelsey Charles Team talks about how she overcame her struggles with drugs and started her career in real estate. Kelsey discusses how she focused to serve the military families in their quest for real estate. Kelsey also discusses the importance of community support and marketing and of guiding your clients into achieving their goals. Next, Kelsey shares tips on how to choose a firm to work with and how she sees the role of a brokerage. Last, Kelsey discusses where she’s struggling right now.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Kelsey Charles can be reached at 808-387-4354 and [email protected]

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
Should you join a cloud brokerage? And what exactly is a cloud brokerage? On today’s episode? This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I am your guide and host through the show and in just a moment, we’re gonna be speaking with top producer Kelsey Charles and oh Oahu, Hawaii. Before we get to Kelsey, just a couple of quick reminders. Please tell a friend. Think of one other realtor that could benefit from hearing these great interviews with people like Kelsey and send them a link to our website keeping it real pod.com. That’s every episode we’ve ever done. It can be streamed right from your browser, or if they’re a podcast person, have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real. And by the way, there’s a few different podcasts named keeping it real. So look for the one with my name on it, DJ Paris, hit that subscribe button or have your friend hit that subscribe button. We really greatly appreciate it. And also last please leave us a review and whatever podcast app you might be listening. This really helps us improve our show and also reach more people like you who benefit from hearing from great top producers like Kelsey and enough about me. Let’s get right to it. Kelsey Charles.

Today on the show, we have Kelsey Charles from real broker in Hawaii. Let me tell you about Kelsey. Now Kelsey Charles is a residential real estate professionals serving the entire island of Oahu and surrounding islands to she is the leader of the Kelsey Charles team and represents both buyers and sellers, whether it be first time homebuyers or seasoned investors. As a military relocation professional, she has often represented clients from every branch of the armed forces. She is also dedicated to the real estate profession and upholds the highest standards of ethics and agency. She’s a certified residential specialist which is a prestigious, professional designation awarded to the most experienced realtors in the nation. She treats your investment in Hawaii very seriously and strives to guide you through your transaction as smoothly as possible. Now her proficiency and use of technology based marketing is unparalleled in the industry, which is why she’s on the show super excited to chat with her. She’s been taught by the best in the business and you can be confident in her ability to close the deal and advocate for your interests. Now Kelsey lives in. And I’m sort of asked you but it’s is it a while beach ever, ever beach? The W is a V. So my apologies but Kelsey lives on every beach. I have a beach getaway, which is in Ohio. With her husband Anthony, who was also a realtor and their two daughters. Please visit her website which is Kelsey Charles homes.com. And that’s Kelsey Charles homes plural. Kelsey Charles homes.com. And also please also follow her on Instagram. Her Instagram. Handle is Realtor in Hawaii. Kelsey, welcome to the show.

Kelsey Charles 4:31
Hey, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here and no worries about E well beach. I work with a lot of military clients and some of them will live here for three years and never know where they still called

D.J. Paris 4:44
our beach.

Kelsey Charles 4:47
So not about it.

D.J. Paris 4:48
By the way, I’m gonna make a declaration I’ve never said on the show. We are about I think we’ve done about 350 episodes. If Kelsey and I lived in the same city I think I would do my best to become her new best friend, because she is a super fun person to talk to. And we were, we were chatting it up beforehand. And I’m like, this is somebody, she’s she’s very similar to myself,

Kelsey Charles 5:10
which is which we could totally hang out.

D.J. Paris 5:14
We could. We’re excited to have you on the show. And I’m really, really happy to have you. We I think you are the first realtor we’ve had from Hawaii. Not that that’s, you know, something that makes you so incredibly unique, of course, but I think you’re in the Midwest. Yeah. Well, you’re a Midwestern girl, though initially. So I would love to know. And by the way, Kelsey is not too far from where we are is from not too far from where we we are that you know where that is, anyway? No, it’s funny. She told me and I said, I don’t I think it’s up there. And she said, yeah, no, you’re wrong.

Kelsey Charles 5:53
place there was in General Motors plant, they remember the decline of the economy. And like, oh, 809 Sure, I can blame my city Janesville for having like, just too much factory going on. I don’t know.

D.J. Paris 6:05
That’s why I did see the movie, Roger and me. And like the early 90s, which was all about General Motors in Flint, Michigan. Town, that town got decimated as well. It’s just amazing what some like I’m from Peoria, Illinois, which is headquartered at Caterpillar, which is one of the biggest companies and in the world. And when they moved, you know, I know, nobody cares about this. But when they moved their executive a good part of their executive team up here to Chicago, because I think it would attract more people than Peoria. More like good talent, it really had a huge impact. So I know what that’s like in the smaller towns. But um, anyway, I read your to talk about how amazing you are. And you really are. And I She’s very Kelsey is very humble. But she does a lot of really cool things. And so let’s start at the beginning. Tell us how you got into real estate.

Kelsey Charles 7:01
Crazy story. So I’ll first start with how I got to Hawaii growing up in like Madison Janesville area. So I saw basically the recession in full force. And I was like, I am not going to live through this, I have not enough desire to stay in the cold. To make it through this whenever there’s like no job opportunities. I mean, what was I going to do like work for $7 an hour? Well, I could do that in Hawaii just as well. So that’s what I did. On a one way ticket, I became a nanny, I actually got a scholarship for college, to study social work. And I was a nanny during that time. And then after my first year of college, I realized like all these things you need as an adult, like health insurance, like paying your car insurance, you got to feed yourself like Well, that’s like a lot of stuff, right? So my dad being a retired or not retired, like laid off auto worker, he was like, I’m totally gonna help you. I’m gonna pay make sure you have health insurance just as a minimum. Turned out that wasn’t true. He either decided not to, or General Motors decided not to do the thing to help the families. So then I’m like, there I am paying for my own health insurance. And then Hawaii just stopping fun when I had to work like 90 hours a week as an 18 year old. So I came back to Wisconsin for a bed, I was like, I’m just gonna finish online classes. And then I’ll go back to Hawaii when I graduate. So you really need to make like, I used to think 90,000 was a good living in Hawaii. And that was maybe true and like, oh nine but now if you don’t make like one ad, you know, you’re struggling for sure. Sure. So I thought like, oh, getting to know nursing, I don’t know something well paying whatever it is. I just want to live in Hawaii. So during that time, I ended up hanging back with the crowd that I did in high school that was using heroin, like very casually. And that was part of like, the Midwestern recession these normal like jocks and I mean, prom, Queens, were just casually doing opiates. So there’s

D.J. Paris 9:00
not a lot of lot of depression probably going out of depression, not a lot of opportunity. Small Town woes,

Kelsey Charles 9:07
right? Very, like Detroit style. So then I got back into that and I got begin there with that. It’s actually my time back in Wisconsin. And then I went to rehab in California, which was not the best for me, I ended up coming out of rehab shooting up and I went and just like orally taking so and everyone

D.J. Paris 9:30
else. So you left you left rehab and immediately started using and accelerating your use with with with a more extreme?

Kelsey Charles 9:38
Exactly. And I’ve heard that can happen and rehab where you hear about all these stories, like people are talking about fantasizing about their youth. And I was like, oh, that sounds great. Like that’s definitely what I want to do. When I get when I wanted to get it. I didn’t see a future for myself. I just kind of wanted to make it through day to day. She was I do have depression and especially like seasonal affective disorder, right? Get out. So using IV drugs, I become homeless. I like 19 and 20. And then I get on a methadone program, which thankfully in Wisconsin was state sponsored. So if you’re on state healthcare, otherwise, that $500 a month when you have nothing is very exciting. Right? So I decided, okay, no, I’m good. I’m stable. I’m gonna go back to Hawaii go to college, even though I’m probably the only college student on methadone that has to show up to the clinic every day.

D.J. Paris 10:26
You’re probably not but you’re the only one talking about it today. Yeah.

Kelsey Charles 10:30
I didn’t see anybody else there. At least in the Hawaii Island. Right? Well, maybe maybe your school?

D.J. Paris 10:36
Yeah. Maybe it was just you.

Kelsey Charles 10:38
I mean, I like to think it wasn’t, but it could have. So yeah, I would go to the methadone clinic, I was doing really well. I was like, tearing up on my program where I only had to go in once a week, getting on a lower dose. And then I met my husband, who was in the Navy at the time, and he apparently saw something in me. Even though I wasn’t doing that one school, I pretty much spent all my days like sleeping. And he was like, yeah, like, move into my house. And I was like, No, I am an independent woman. Like, I don’t need you. I don’t need no man. I’m gonna live in my $700 a month apartment and my studio. Even though there was like more roaches than there was food in the house. And he came in one night to like, help me move myself or like, bring something up. And he’s like, You can’t stay here. This place is so sketchy. Like, I can’t have anyone I’m dating live here. And I was like, You’re just trying to force me to live with you. So you can hold me down. Because that just like this weird mindset of

D.J. Paris 11:34
like, he’s trying to control you is a concern. Yeah,

Kelsey Charles 11:37
exactly. Right. And that’s what but that was my experience, like with men and like short my father, right. So that it was just very, I was in an unhealthy place. But I he was in the Navy. So he was pretty much gone all the time. So he’s like, Hey, like, here, you can have my apartment, you can have my car. I’m pretty much always gone. And I was like, no, like, for the longest time. I’m not going to do that. And eventually, my landlord ended up coming up in the middle of the night to my apartment to just look at me and like, stare at me and be a complete felon, like, for no reason. So I took him up on the opportunity and then living with him. I was like, okay, like, well could be getting married because I was really into Christianity and my recovery. I felt like if I was gonna live with someone, I need to be married. And he’s a hardcore atheists like, Super Star Trek, like no interest in any of that. But like, I forced him basically to marry me, you could say, but he’s he’ll say it’s like the best thing he ever did. Right? So we got married. And then we had our first kid when I was on methadone. So I was addicted. And my baby was one addicted. So she had to be weaned off with morphine. And basically, when you’re on methadone, I don’t mean to make this a drug story, but I’m just like how you can? This is okay. Okay. So my baby was born on morphine. And if you’re on methadone, and you’re pregnant, if you stop that homeostasis of like, that comfortable drug or the baby is receiving every day, you can pretty much you’re almost guaranteed to self abort, right? Yeah. So people are looking down me like, oh, like you’re a junkie or taking drugs. I’m like, Alright, we’re trying

D.J. Paris 13:08
to save your baby. Yeah, exactly. And you need it the methadone to be able to not be Yeah, in the lifestyle.

Kelsey Charles 13:16
Exactly. No, totally, for sure. And just said, maintain like the mental health. I mean, there’s so many reasons people stay on methadone. And I’m not like there to judge them for that. But for me, it was like Yeah, it’s like maintain the lifestyle not want to go to the streets and hang out with the people that I had before. Right. And so I could think about my baby thinking about like, what breast pump are we going to buy just like normal people stuff instead of like, okay, how am I get a score today? Yeah, and I wasn’t using and I just said my methadone every day when my baby was born, she weaned off and she’s fine. And then my husband got basically medically retired from the Navy he has anxiety and his trigger his career just started to really trigger him. And he was an air traffic controller before he became an officer he did really well with that job and they say ATC is like one of the most stressful jobs you can have. It has

D.J. Paris 14:04
to it has to be a walk in the park. Well, that’s amazing because I when I was I know air traffic control and there’s been movies made about how stressful fictional movies and then even documentaries Yeah, it’s it’s it’s pushing 10 I think was one of the movies but but there it is. So because they’re dealing with so much traffic and yeah, 1000s of people’s lives at any given moment.

Kelsey Charles 14:30
Totally. And then the pilot sometimes you have to like override the pilot and say like, Hey, do this and I’m gonna ignore you and he was in your in a lot of like life and death situations daily. And he thought that was less stressful than his new job in the Navy, which was being asked to see like all the time. He would be gone for months at a time I barely ever saw him. And it started to really affect his mental health. He’s like, hey, this isn’t for families. I don’t want to do this. So he gets out. To make a long story short, we moved to Florida. And we bought a house and we had our baby. And I didn’t work. I never really plan to like have a job. I was like, Okay, I’ll get married. Cool. He’ll take care of me. That was my ideal lifestyle. So funny how that change right now. He actually works for me. And I didn’t like Florida. He told me it was gonna be like, Hawaii. And I was like, Okay, I trust you. Not at all. It’s very red state. Nothing like what I’m used to being from the Midwest, and very, I don’t know, it was like, maybe a desert version of Hawaii with like, crocodiles, and rednecks. I mean,

D.J. Paris 15:38
some strange residents. Yeah, I’m

Kelsey Charles 15:40
like, Who are these people? I don’t want to be around this. So I told him, I was like, we’re moving back to Hawaii, or like, like, like a cat. I’m sorry, it’s an ultimatum. But like we’re leaving. And we definitely weren’t in a place financially to do that. And while we were in this, another economically depressed town, I was doing whatever I could to make a book, like whether I’m like, flipping a couch trying to sell multilevel marketing. I would work at these jobs, and people wouldn’t pay me. So I was like a pizza server. I worked at a chamber of commerce, which I thought was legitimately pay me, I would work for months, and no one would ever give me a paycheck. And I was like, I, okay, this is not working, like we just have to go otherwise, our life is just gonna be sad again. So we put our house in the rental market. And then we moved to why and then we find out that we’re pregnant, after we played to not have another kid. But we knew if I came back to the why, if we came back to why that I would have to work just because of his pension. We’re a family of three now. But we had already rented our house. And we had already signed a lease for a two bedroom. Like it was what it was, we just have to find a way now our plane tickets, but and this wouldn’t be a huge concern for most normal people. But when I’m pregnant, I get this disease called hyperemesis. So I pretty much puke like 30 times a day. And that’s like, at a minimum, like, it’s really awful. Pregnancy is not meant for me, like I love my children, but I would never go through it again. And that was really hard to have in my life. I’m like, okay, so if I can make like, $5 to eat that school, but that’s all I could do. My husband was on retirement disability. So he couldn’t work yet, because I hadn’t been locked in right now, which is an unfortunate setup that the system has, but we didn’t have money for food, we would say our mortgage on the mainland, and the rent we were getting was like half of that mortgage. And then we had our Hawaii rent. And after that, like it was a car payment, and then struggling just day to day to get food. So there were days that like we wouldn’t eat, and then we would just have to get like water and bread. And even that was a struggle, like how do we literally learn to make bread out of like flour and yeast and water? And then I remember times that my three year old was like, Mommy, like I’m just a little bit hungry, you know, can we eat and I was like, I’m sorry. We just have to wait till tomorrow, like when the direct deposit hits. It’s how it’s going to be. So with that, I realized I never wanted to live like that again. And I knew it wasn’t permanent. I knew once I had the baby that I would be like, physically okay, I didn’t realize how much mentally that would have tormented me and I thought I had been through pretty much the worst through my life, like being an addict being like, molested all these things that had happened to me. I didn’t realize I can relive this again, as an adult now that I had, you know, created my own support system, right. So I saw this lady, she was actually at exp, and I followed her on Facebook, and I pretty much spent all my time scrolling social media, because that’s the only thing that helped me stay connected. So I mean, I would take my Benadryl, so I did puke. I mean, every moment, I would still be in the hospital every two or three days. Just getting IVs and stuff really terrible time.

D.J. Paris 18:40
Because you’re because you’d be low on fluids and you’d be dehydrated. Yeah,

Kelsey Charles 18:44
exactly. And I couldn’t keep anything down. And you know, to keep the fetus alive, everything like that. And so I started watching her and I was like, maybe I could do real estate. Like, she has my dream car, which is a Tesla acts like she’s got a husband, she’s renovating how she owns a house. I didn’t own a house in Hawaii. I was like, Oh, that’s so cool. And for so many reasons. I never wanted to get into real estate, but I don’t think I understood why. But I love sales. And I love just hanging out with people talking to them. And I still think it’s the coolest thing ever. That’s the thing that you can like, get paid to help people get what they want. And you pretty much just get to know them. They’re your friend or your family. And I’m not saying it’s easy. Like there’s a difficult times of course, but this is still the best gig I’ve ever heard that right. So I get my real estate license babies born. I go to work. I started training with Coldwell Banker Pacific properties. And then they basically just like throw you to the bowls, like go get a deal. And I remember I would find clients anywhere I could whether that was like buying a laptop like oh, hey, do you need a house? I mean, I was probably like just really putting myself out there but I know that’s what it takes, right? That I would eventually get it. But it turns out like the first few sets of buyers only wanted to hang out with me because they wanted like a female company, which we saw Repeat. I’m like, You’re literally like pulling your credit score to go into apartments and just like be alone with me. And they will say things like, Oh, this is 500,000 for an apartment. You know what I can get in Texas for that? And I was like, yes. But we’re not in Texas, like, What are you talking about, bro? And if they had bought, then that apartment would be worth like 700. Today, this was like, two, three years ago than they were like, so I’m like,

D.J. Paris 20:22
a lot of just maybe questionable people.

Kelsey Charles 20:25
Yeah, exactly. And you don’t know how to verify or how to a new a new agent. Yeah, and companies don’t really teach you, right. And I was like, shoot, I just spent all this gas, I can barely afford gas to get here. And now these people are running me around. I was like, Oh, shoot. And I quickly realized that VA buyers, military people, about my age, we’re going to be my best client, that they don’t really know a realtor, they’re gonna buy, they’re going to be super loyal, if they have a good experience, they’re gonna sell with you, and then they’re gonna refer their friends to you. And they can get a house for about 1000 bucks. I mean, literally, like a $500 house for a grand that was in the old market, right? So that became my niche. And then that’s what I did. I did 12 million, my first year, second year was like, 25,000,003rd. year last year, I did like 25 million. I don’t know what this year is gonna look like, I’m trying to put a little more focus on lifestyle and then growing like my other brands, which is like, dropping a real estate course training agents mentoring. And lately, I tried to just work with like, referrals, and then past clients who already know me.

D.J. Paris 21:31
Wow, you said so much there. And I’m trying to think what I want to sort of dive into because first, I want to honor you for your courage and vulnerability, to share, you know, difficult things or what might not be difficult to you. But for other people would be extremely private or things that that they wouldn’t want out there. I too, have an addiction background, a different addiction background. So I can I can relate to, to some of that. I was I was thinking in a really about just all the adversity, and not from a perspective of pity, or I feel sorry for you, although I do I feel sad, that there were things that happened to you that should not have happened that you didn’t invite or control, which is often the case with people who are addicted. So I can, and other times, there doesn’t seem to be that straight line. But I honor you for for being a willingness to share because I think if if nothing else, if our audience just understands the the power of being courageous and telling your story, despite, you know, the sort of fear of will people judge me, I think I you know, it’s interesting, when I I’m curious to get your take on this, I see this a lot. We interview a lot of people for our show, and really wonderfully kind, lovely people that I I don’t want to disparage in any way. But I noticed that oftentimes, they’ll be on our show, and they’ll be concerned about how they came off or there’ll be concerned about maybe they said something that they felt was maybe slightly an opinion and actual opinion. And then they’re like, oh, you know, I? I don’t you know, I don’t want that. And I think we what you just demonstrated was, you know, the willingness to sort of say, here’s, here’s, here’s my story, here’s where I’m at. And I think as a result, not only do people feel more connected to you, because that’s how intimacy works, of course, when people are open up, but I suspect it not that I don’t know if you share though that similar story with all of your clients, I don’t know your process there, but you just shared it with you’re basically sharing it with 1000s of Realtors now and and I just want to say that that that Kelsey is courage to do that is something that we can all take a little bit of a page from of being it’s it’s like the old AAA slogan to thine own self be true or whatever it says, which is, hey, this is who I am. I don’t have to be all things to all people. Here’s my story. And I suspect that your clients if they do know that story about you feel incredibly connected to you because you’re you have this ability to say here here’s where I’m at and the story didn’t end with with you being in jail or or in you know, in a pet what penitentiary or in the in the ground, right? That’s what

Kelsey Charles 24:28
they say. Yeah, if you don’t in the walls in the programs that this is the future most addicts if you don’t get clean. And I mean that is true.

D.J. Paris 24:36
It is it is a disease that is recognized by the American Medical Association with no medical with actually no medical effects, right. There’s no actual fix for addiction. They call it a spiritual problem, but it’s really a medical problem without a medical solution. And the fact that you’re here today and not just surviving and and you know, living, you’re actually in incredibly successful as a result is, is really just an amazing story. I’m so, so grateful for you for all of that. And I don’t want to make that the entire focus, because that’s just the first half of your story. Quite honestly, it’s just where you came from. And we all came from somewhere. And your story, though, I hope, I hope will inspire a lot of our listeners to really think about how they can bring more of themselves into their business, you know, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be things that you’re uncomfortable sharing. Not you, Kelsey, but our audience that maybe they would get comfortable being able to say, This is who I am, this is my who I, what I stand for, I think is incredibly important. So and by the way, just doing fifth was it 15 million in your first year 12 million, 12 million 12 million in your first year is an incredible success. And now you’re you know, you’re at that top, you know, who knows what will happen this year, but 25 million by year three? Yeah, I’d say that’s pretty awesome. So. So I want to talk about how she talked about I think that desperation oftentimes, is such a gift. It’s the worst, hardest thing to possibly

Kelsey Charles 26:10
ever but worst gift ever. Yeah. But you’re right. It’s like what else is gonna drive you until you’re completely desperate. I mean, I am amazed by people who just go out there and kill it. Like they lived a pretty okay life. And maybe they didn’t. I mean, I don’t know what their life was like, but some of them I’m like, Oh, dude, your parents love you. Like, that’s so cool. Now you did this, and you’re still driven to just go and kill it and kill it and kill it. But I think if I hadn’t had this, like, who knows where I would be? I don’t know. I mean,

D.J. Paris 26:39
I would love to talk about and this isn’t necessarily an addiction question. It’s real. But I’m curious if there’s a parallel between support, support for you with with the challenges you’ve experienced, I know, look, going to go into rehab as a supportive environment, or it’s at least supposed to supposed to be getting on methadone and being on a program that’s supportive of finding a sponsor, if you’re in you know, a 12 step thing. All of those things are about community being supportive. We try to do our little version of that here on the show to say, hey, you know, we can learn from from people like Kelsey who have really, you know, persevered. I’m curious on how important support is for you talked about starting with Coldwell Banker and sort of feeling like you’re thrown to the wolves, maybe not feeling like you have that community? How is community real important to you and your life and support? Oh, yeah,

Kelsey Charles 27:30
community is everything for me. And I think that’s one thing that I did learn in sobriety. And then as I started to, like, kind of level up my company and how much better my life got, as I was more selective of who I allowed in my day to day. And now I think I could do anything, I mean, not to be like big headed, but I know the steps, right? You want to go be an astronaut, go hang out with astronauts go listen to their YouTube channels, go stay in the rooms, bug the shit out of them until they’re your best friend. And it just becomes like a second language to you. And I feel like I could do that with real estate or pretty much any venture that I want to go into it. Now, I don’t want to be an astronaut or a doctor. But more than anything like it is your community and who you choose to be around. And I think being in some desperate places, like having to have to get housing needing to get food taught me a lot of basic survival skills that you know, apply and even high levels of business. Right.

D.J. Paris 28:26
And you also to with the extreme challenges that you faced, you now probably have a little bit less fear of the unknown. And then people who maybe have had a more on paper, comfortable life, you know, so I’m curious to that. If If for some reason it all went away tomorrow, and for some reason, you had to start yourself a new again. You probably are like, Well, I would figure something out because yeah, you have figured things out

Kelsey Charles 28:59
totally. And that’s the thing is I really don’t have a fear but that like I’m not I don’t feel entitled to any kind of lifestyle. Like you can lose everything at any moment. And I’ve seen it happen to the best of people, and I can lose everything and I will be fine because like I’m fine. Hanging out with my family. Having some decent even doesn’t even have to be good food, like ramen noodles, like I’m stoked with that. Give me Netflix, give me life and I will be perfectly content. So yeah, nothing really scares me in terms of like, lifestyle loss, like I could have a Tesla one day, the next day, I couldn’t be on my feet. And I’m like, whatever. It just is what it is.

D.J. Paris 29:34
Yeah, cuz you’ve been there and and you’ve gotten through and that’s why I say like the gift of desperation and it’s not it’s no eight meaning to be patronizing because No, I know what you went through is is is extreme and difficult. And I honor you for coming out the other side. Let’s talk about marketing, because I know that this is a huge part of how you grew your business. So can you talk a little bit about what marketing means to you? You and how you implement it in your real estate practice.

Kelsey Charles 30:02
Sure. So I’ve gotten feedback from all kinds of people that say that I don’t have good marketing. And it’s not pretty enough. And I’m like, well, it’s super effective. So you know what you have to say, and I’m trying all these kinds of things. I’ve seen people with like $20,000 a month campaigns, and I’m like, I don’t feel connected to them. Like maybe they have this pineapple. And he’s like pretty linen colors and these color schemes, and it’s really monochromatic, but they’re not speaking to people. So that means nothing to me if they’re not connecting. And I think for me marketing, it can just be as simple as like, how do you break down barriers through digital media? Conversations, putting yourself out there that make people feel more connected to you? And if I’m feeling like someone’s uncomfortable about me, I’ll just start to tell them like some weird shit about myself. I’m like, oh, yeah, like I was a heroin addict and not to like, like, ski them out. But they’re like, Oh, my God, really, because everyone is thinking like, and so many people are just like, going through a weird phase in life. And they’re just like, What the fuck am I doing? What does Kelsey think of me? Like, as a realtor? Does she think I’m like, annoying? Am I too much to deal with? Like, am I looking at this the wrong way, they’re always wondering if they’re being judged. So I’m just gonna, like, make them feel comfortable and say like, Hey, this is who I am. I’m here for you. Like, don’t feel weird. And then this is why and how like, oh, shit, like, that’s my realtor from my for life. Like, that’s my best friend. And my clients a lot of times, like, they send me gifts, like a year down the line, like thank you for doing me, right. Like, I know, we have to sell in a couple of years. And we’re not even a little worried about it. Because we know we have like the best realtor and friends backing us, right. So I’m like, really close relationships with people. So you can do that in many ways. I mean, as far as like getting leads, you can do it with houses, like having a good CRM, putting ads out there. posting on Facebook marketplace, I do have a billboard at a local mall that has a humbug QR code. So you scan it, it gives you an instant home value, I keep in touch with you every month until you decide to block me or sell your home with me, right? And I go the mall like every couple days, I’m like, Hey, guys, this is my billboard. I’m Kelsey Charles, this is me right here on this wall. And then people are like, Oh my God, is she like on drugs? Or is that really higher? Like, I don’t look like I mean, I don’t look like a local person. So like, Okay, this girl just came from Connecticut, like, What is she trying to do? And the question my intentions, right? But then I’ll talk to them and get to know them. And my local people are like some of my favorite and best years clients. And when I got into real estate, so many people said to me, like, Oh, you’re not going to do well. Everyone in Hawaii is a realtor, everyone’s Auntie as a realtor. It’s just a way to make quick money. And everyone’s seen the opportunity. And it’s like, easy to get in too hard to be successful. And so I just saw that as like, Well, fuck you. Like, I’m just gonna go do it way better than you ever thought. Right? So as far as that and you can do marketing anyway. But whatever connects people the most with you, and gets you at like an even level where you’re not like this elite agent, or you’re only this like $2 million agent, and I do all price comps. And I can talk to anyone and there’s no lead. That’s like too low for me. So I think that is like the ultimate goal of marketing. It can look like a lot of different things. But mine is to bring people to me, I want to be the realtor that they think of when they want to make a move, when they need real estate advice. I want it to be come to me, even if I might take a couple days to reply, because I do get like hundreds of text messages a day. And then at one point in my career, I realized that I kind of made it when I had like 12 escrows. And I was driving around showing clients and this lady is like, hey, we need a house. We heard you’re the best person to do it. And I was like, I’m so sorry. I cannot call you till 11pm. Like is that okay? I understand if you want to move on? She’s like, No, I’ll wait. I was like, okay, all right, I think we’re doing well we have realized God to the point where clients and consumers realize that we love them more than ourselves, and that we always put them first and we’re worth waiting for. So in such like a consumer driven society where people want instant reply, instant access and everything. And there’s always going to be those few that are easily picked off by someone else. But I think the majority of our clients are super solid, because we tell our story because we share, we talk about our mission and our our goals for them. Like I set goals for clients. I mean, I talked to them, they tell me, Hey, I’m gonna be here for this long and then I’m gonna want to upgrade it. So I’m like, Okay, this is what this looks like, we’re gonna get you in this house, it’s gonna appreciate likely this month, we’re gonna sell it. We can take that money, you can pay down your debt, you can pay your student loans, you can pay for a graduate degree or we can put it down on another house. And then you can lower your payment as you upgrade your house. And I have a plan of what that’s gonna look like with every single client we have, whether that’s like a seller or a buyer. And not that I tried to be a financial adviser, but I’m like, Okay, this is what I would do. And they always seem to like really appreciate my advice. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 34:55
I got you just said so much. This idea of you consider while I’m putting I’m putting a word in your mouth. Alright? Not. I think you think of yourself as a consultant. Absolutely. Yeah. And like almost like a Life Consultant where it’s like, okay, because you just said, okay, you know, hey, this is this is house number one, well, here’s what we’re gonna do, here’s how long we’re gonna stay there. And again, it’s not like you’re dictating the terms. No, they

Kelsey Charles 35:24
like, they want that they want someone to drive the wheel because they don’t know what they’re doing. I mean, who does their first time buying house, I definitely did it, I wanted someone to say, Hey, this is how we’re gonna build wealth for you,

D.J. Paris 35:34
before I bought now, just to give some context for anyone who might be new to our show. So I don’t run the firm that I’m at. But I’m the CMO of our firm, we have about 800 agents, you would think and I have a licensed real estate license, you would think that I know something about real estate, I don’t like literally nothing. And that’s not me being falsely humble. Like I legitimately sit at a desk all day. I’ve never worked with a client, I know nothing. So and you know, maybe I know a little bit more than the average person, but I would not be any sort of I would not be able to give any advice about is this a good investment or not?

Kelsey Charles 36:08
Within real estate, and that’s it. Yeah. And,

D.J. Paris 36:12
and yeah, and so I before I bought a property, and it was not my first time buying as the primary residence, were not my first time, I had to ask a bunch of really successful realtors. Am I making a good decision or a bad decision? Because I don’t know. And and what the reason I’m bringing this up is what would with you being able not just to say, hey, I can help you get this deal closed, which of course is part of the job. You saying, this is a good idea. Here’s why. Here’s where we’re headed. Here’s what’s down the road. Here’s what I want to do for you beyond this initial purchase or sale, and I’m going to be with you your whole career. Think about No, I’m not saying this to you, Kelsey, I’m saying that to our audience, think about how powerful we all want. Not all but most people want guidance. And we were also really afraid to ask for it. Especially the older we get. We’re like, Oh my God. Yeah, like, like, I should already know all this stuff. I should like, I should already have somebody you know, giving I should really know everything.

Kelsey Charles 37:08
A lot older. first time homebuyers are like we’re retiring. This is our first house like, I’m sorry, I don’t know anything. I’m like, I actually prefer you know, nothing. And just trust me. That’s fine. Yeah. I’ll tell you.

D.J. Paris 37:19
That’s all we all want. Look, I don’t understand my taxes. But I hope my accountant keeps me out of jail. Right. You know, like, like, I trusted my trusted. Yeah, trust will stop getting paid if I go to jail, maybe. But she probably has 500 other clients, it wouldn’t really matter. But, but I care that she knows what she’s doing. And and I hope she does. I don’t know if she actually does.

Kelsey Charles 37:44
We don’t know the questions asked, right. That’s the thing is we as consumers aren’t taught to how to vet our professionals. And I know I’m sure you hear in our industry, like real estate agents are going away, they’re not going to be a thing anymore. I’m like, No, people need more service, not less service. The way I see it is I’m like gearing up to be your realtor for life, for your family, for your auntie for your sister for your kids. And we’re gonna have a plan for you. And I want to do more for you, not less,

D.J. Paris 38:08
and people are terrified to ask for help. It is, it is it is the hardest thing in the world. Because it’s vulnerable. It’s scary, it implies that maybe you might have some shame around, I should know that. And I don’t. And you have had to ask for help in very desperate situations before becoming a realtor. So you understand the power of surrender. And that’s I think, what what every good realtor or maybe not every good realtor, but but many of them, most of them probably are good at saying is I will take care of this Mr. And Mrs. Client, I know how to do this. And I’m not here just for this one commission. So let’s talk about how you with your marketing how you connect, because you talked about connection being so important, you give us a couple of examples of you know, doing some some, you know, social media post, hey, that’s me up there. And, and, and a little bit more, but talk a little bit more about how you how you look for connection when you’re first talking to somebody.

Kelsey Charles 39:07
So I’m always looking for connection everywhere, just as like a natural salesperson. And even before I was in sales, I always want to be connecting with people around me. So if they I like their shirt. I’m like, Oh, hey, like I love your shirt. That’s super dope, right? I’m on Facebook, though. And I realized I have like about 5000 people following me. So I’m looking, I’m interacting with them like, Oh, your kid is so cute. Like, that’s so funny. That just happened and I’m being real. I don’t do it. Because I want to sell. You know, that’s not it at all. But then I start to share about my life and how fucked up it is. And the like the crazy stuff my kids do. And they’re like, wow, like she’s just like me. And I’ve been invited over to people’s houses. They’re like, hey, we actually just bought with another realtor, but you really inspired us to buy and I’m like, oh shoot like, you know, I’m really glad sorry, you didn’t reach out to me, but like, I’m glad you bought a house. I want what’s best for you. But they’re like, well, now we want to sell and it just seemed so easy with you, like you’re so natural, like, we just, we don’t feel shame or pressure galloping around you, we want you to be our agent. So sometimes it comes back and like, if someone uses someone else, I don’t get mad. I mean, I’m like, you know, whatever, you win some, you lose some, but stay in touch with those people, they’ll come back to you. They really well, because social media is the greatest gift we have as far as like, keeping an infinite connection to someone as long as you’re connected through Facebook. I mean, they’re in your life forever.

D.J. Paris 40:30
Yeah, they are. And conversations don’t have really an end, right on social media. They just, they just continue and evolve and consistency. How important is consistency with with connection? Or do those go hand in hand with you being consistent in your outreach? And

Kelsey Charles 40:47
yeah, so I’m really consistent and my clients lives. And as far as like reaching out, people say you’re supposed to have a strategy for social media. I don’t want to wear up my welcome. So I’m not posting all day, like, Oh, hey, this is so funny. I’m not posting like 50 memes, or even five memes. I don’t even post like five times a week. And they say like, um, your presence is important, but also to hide people, if I feel like they’re just trying to sell me and I see Realtors posts, like, Oh, hey, market update, well, that means nothing to your client. They don’t even know how to read that. They might have owned five houses, but you’re trying to look smart. And now they just feel dumb. Right? So I think there’s ways to go about it. And yeah, I try to do it when it’s actually natural to me when I want to post like, Hey, here’s the thing I want to do, I’m sharing a win. This is a funny thing that happened in my life, this is something that kind of sucked. I do it when I’m inspired, not just to have another post out there and to stay in someone’s feet.

D.J. Paris 41:39
Yeah, that makes sense. What I think we’re really what we’re talking about is is surface and authenticity, and connection. And I those three values, I keep hearing from you. Service, value, authenticity, connection. These are all things that what we’re not hearing about is, you know, oh, well, I also know all of the market stats for my local area, which I’m sure you do. But what we’re what we’re really talking about is what moves but a lot of people know that like that’s yeah,

Kelsey Charles 42:11
that’s fair, no value to that. I mean, I might not know everything, but people will forgive me when I don’t, because I know, they know, I’ll figure it out. And that’ll put their best interests first. And I’m not necessarily like the nerdiest realtor, but I know what kind of ROI you’re gonna get what you’re gonna buy at any upgrades. But I’m just me like, I’m just myself. And I think that’s ultimately like, why do you connect? Well, and you talk a lot about a lot of principles of sobriety, like connection, surrender, in knowing how to surrender and a business, this cutthroat can be your make or break. I mean, our failure rate is so high, right? And that’s because people feel like they need to know everything. And some of the best Realtors I know. And people would, I would never say, but they call me for advice, like some of the top agents on Wall who were like, hey, Kelsey, what would you do in this situation? Or what are you doing for marketing? And I just tell them, and I’m like, wow, that they would ask me, but that’s so badass that they’re like, because every day I wake up, I realize I know less than I thought, every day is a new learning experience. I get knocked on my ass every single day. Like, I’ll really be thinking, I’m smart. And I never really think I’m smart. I kind of just like, Oh, I’m just lucky to be here. You know, but like, every day is like, Oh, my goodness, I did not know that was coming. And real estate is so evolving, that if you’re not humbling yourself, if you’re not, if you’re not kind of like gaining more knowledge and thinking less of yourself as you go like, it’s almost the opposite way. It should happen. You’re and you’re gonna fall flat on your face and get sued.

D.J. Paris 43:36
I’ve always felt that confidence is overrated. I think. I think confidence is the willingness to be vulnerable. And the willingness to say, This is who I am. This is what I know. This is what I don’t know. And that to me is that takes a lot more confidence to be like, by the way, I’m not good at that. I can’t do that. But I can get a solution for you. But I don’t know that right now.

Kelsey Charles 44:00
Or maybe not. But at least I’m going to tell you like hey, it’d be honest. Yeah, exactly. And no, I really appreciate that. And I’m the same way as far as like, being super confident if I if I interview someone, and they’re like, Oh, I know everything. I’m a consultant, I’m gonna come in change your business. I’m immediately like, Syed, I’m so skeptical. I’m like, oh, you know everything. And you’re gonna come change in my business. And I’m like, I have no interest in hiring you like the kind of people that I bring on or that just like, oh, I don’t know, everything, but like, I think I could learn it in there just a little bit. I like a little bit of apprehension. And that’s when I’m like, okay, yeah, my person, you can come on. I also

D.J. Paris 44:34
love to win when I meet with somebody. And this this comes up all the time, I’m sure for our audience, is when somebody asks you something, the best thing that and you don’t know the answer, the best thing that I would, if I were the home owner, and I’m interviewing people to sell my property, and I have all these listing presentations and I and if I said well, I have this really unusual thing with with my home or my mortgage or whatever. And if they go I don’t know what that is. But I’m going to figure that out. And I’m going to get back to you with an answer. That is, that is as good to me as Oh, I know what that is. And I know how to fix that. Like, that’s good, too. But I love when people are like, I’ve never heard of that before, but they get excited, like, I’m gonna figure this out for you. I’m like, I want that person in my life. Because and I want to say something else. You did a version of that. In something you said it probably, I don’t want to make sure it didn’t skip over our audience’s ears. You were talking about being so busy that sometimes now you get phone calls where you’re like, Hey, Mr. And Mrs. prospect, I can’t call you until 11pm tonight. But But here’s what here’s what she’s doing. Let’s break that down. She didn’t say no problem, I’ll get right back to you and then fail. She said, here’s, here’s what I can do. Here’s what I’m willing to do. Is that okay? And by the way, if it’s not okay, I understand. We live in an immediate, you know, and I I’m saying more than you did, but But you know, we’re talking about this immediacy of feeling like you need to respond immediately, you probably do need to respond immediately, but with the expectation of when the next step is, and you just said it, and it’s just part of kind of your process. But a lot of people could learn from that is to say, Hey, Mr. Mrs. Client, I am so grateful you called me I wish I could call you back right now, unfortunately, the earliest I can call you is x, can we do that? Does that work for you? And that’s really what you did. And I think that I love that there’s nothing worse than leaving a message. And then just going like, I am waiting on a refund for a child, I won’t even say that they’ve become one child. Now. It’s one it’s like a, like a GrubHub kind of thing. And it’s not their fault that I placed an order for food didn’t show up. No big deal. I was very nice about it. I’m like, hey, guys just never came. And it’s been like three days. And I’m like, now I have to go back to them and be like, hey, just FYI. Did you guys gonna like take care of this? Because worst case scenario, I’ll call my credit card company, they’ll refund it, no big deal. But all I really want is for them to say, hey, DJ, give us a week on this. We’re on it. Don’t worry, validate me, validate me and and tell me what the next step is. If you don’t have to solve it right away, just tell me we’re on it. You don’t have to think about this again, don’t worry. If by Friday, it’s not completed, I will reach out to you and blah, blah, blah. This is what we’re talking about customer service as well. And I think this is a customer service job, at least from my perspective, or at least a good chunk of it is. I want to talk also about choosing a firm and I know this was really when we were first booking Kelsey, that was kind of our the the topic that I thought we’d be going into most was like, how do you choose a firm everyone’s you know, there’s so many options and so many different brokerage models. You’ve been, you’ve been now to this is your fourth firm you’re in and you’re happy. And we like real. And we’re super happy that you’re there. And I’m glad that that more firms who have a similar model to exp are now existing. So there’s just more opportunity for people I love that everybody Nihlus spot for everyone, I would love for you to give any sort of advice you have to our audience about how to select a firm, and maybe questions to ask or things to look for, and maybe things to look out for.

Kelsey Charles 48:20
Okay, so I’ve actually made a YouTube video on this. And it’s probably going to be the last thing that you would think I would say, as I would love to recruit love to have you at my brokerage. But my number one thing when you’re looking at a brokerage is you’re and you’re a new agent is like the split is so irrelevant. I mean, you can argue all day, like, Hey, I’m worth this much more present. But if you’re doing no deals, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Yeah. So that’s so many new agents are like, Oh, what’s your split? They come to me like, oh, Kelsey, I want to be on your team. Like, what’s your split? I’m like, Excuse me, we’re having the wrong conversation. Like, what are you going to bring to me because I’ve proven I can do this right? On my own. I don’t necessarily need to grow, I want to grow and I want to spread my mission. And I want you know, my team to cover all of why, right? But it never starts with like, Hey, I’m so good at video, I can completely take over your social media, I can do this for you and all for free. Just because I want to learn from you.

D.J. Paris 49:19
Right away, by the way, is that like your dream, your fantasy that somebody? It would be my fantasy. Somebody calls me up and says, Hey, I like what you guys are doing. I think I can add value. By the way, this is how you can prospect you can prospect the exact same way. Hey, I saw you just got a promotion at your company, Mr. or Mrs. So and so on LinkedIn. And I don’t know if you’re thinking of upgrading or moving but boy, I just wanted to say congrats. Keep up the great work. I would love to chat. We’re talking about adding value. And so absolutely. You just said something so powerful. So a lot of times people will say well, when you’re going out interviewing here are the questions. It’s actually the thing I asked you to say is what questions you’re starting with. You’re starting from a different perspective and In a much stronger position, and I used to say this to people who were in the normal corporate world, when they would say, because I’ve recruited over, I don’t know, 1500 agents or whatever that doesn’t mean I’m know all that much about recruiting other than recruiting realtors. But in the in the non realtor world what I used to tell people who are looking for jobs is go into a job and say, here’s what I think I can do for you. Does this match with what you’re looking for? And is opposed to? Here are the qualities I have here is you know, blah, blah, blah, my background? It’s

Kelsey Charles 50:28
Oh, yeah, you can tell me about your qualities. Like it means nothing to me, you know, that show me your qualities? Like, who are you? Are we going to like hanging out with you? What are you going to bring to us? And that’s what I did when I was new. And I would go to top producers, and I’m like, Hey, I’m Kelsey Charles, you have no idea who I am. But I want to dedicate 100 hours a week for free to your business. What can I do for you? Can I show houses? Can I hold your open houses, I was in five open houses a week, and like, five to seven, nobody even came. But I was just trying, right? Putting a sign up? Who’s gonna come by? And I would go to older agents and say, Hey, I know you’re super successful. You’re doing all these deals? Can I help you set up a social media and a Facebook presence? And you just let me come on a listing appointment and teach me what will you do? And that’s exactly what I did. And I was like, seriously, no catch, like, don’t pay me anything. Like I want nothing. I’m just gonna come show up every single day like, I will be your assistant, I’ll bring the coffee. I mean, no matter what you need, just like, let me come. And that’s how I got my start. And I actually learned about that from a blogger, his name is Nate green, and he’s a fitness blogger. And he got his editorial in men’s health by writing the editor everyday and saying, Hey, how can I get your job, bro? Like, these are the things I’m good at. And I mean that maybe that’s a very fresh approach. That’s not like what I did at all. But I love what you’re saying like, hey, does this match? What can I bring to your company? I just do not appreciate it. I don’t think anyone appreciates it when you come and say, hey, what can you do for me? I’m like, Well, you came to me. So don’t come to me with like, what the 10 things like I can do for you. Because what if I’m not even hiring at the moment, I really want you to show me that you have some interest in me. And you’re not shopping like five different companies. Because you know, you like how St. Charles team is different, like our dynamic. My mission. It’s not like so many of these big brokerages, like, like we’re very niche, very unique. I have like a mission that I want to create. And there’s a lot of growth for that right person. But if they’re starting out with a mindset of the opposite of growth, like what’s the most I can get at for the least amount of work? That immediately is just like such a turn off to me?

D.J. Paris 52:31
Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I’m curious. So it’s so funny, because on the recruiting side of this business, recruiting agents, it’s often a Okay, well, what do you offer? Meaning? What is your firm provide? What you know, splits leads, like we talked about leads for a second? Yeah, what shouldn’t shouldn’t agent, what is your opinion about when you’re interviewing firms, the importance of a firm providing leads,

Kelsey Charles 52:58
go get your own leads, like anyone that’s gonna teach you how to get leads, they’re gonna be the worst leads, they’re gonna keep you dependent. Your job as a salesperson is to get leads, okay. And if you’re getting leads, your value goes down so much. I mean, anyone can close a lead someone who’s like, hey, I want to buy a house. Sure, learn the humps, and make a million dollars, like learn to eat what you kill that the salespersons job that That’s crazy to me, like, No, I’m not gonna hand you all your leads on a silver platter, I will teach you how to do it, I’ll teach you how to fish. I’ll teach you how to speak to people and market is do it like me, but me feeding you leaves a short time. And when the market changes, those aren’t going to be as easy to buy, they’re going to be much more expensive, they’re going to be much more flaky. Let me teach you how to build a business. And I think there’s 1000 times more value in that.

D.J. Paris 53:46
Yeah, and also, there’s just a lot of lying that goes on with leads a lot of promises that don’t end up happening

Kelsey Charles 53:52
No, and leads lie, they’ll lead to your company’s gonna give you all the leads, and then you call and you’re like, Oh, hey, I saw you click on this. And we’re like, No, I didn’t like who are you? Why are you calling me? There’s so many better ways. And I can teach you and I teach agents for free, like, call me hit me up on social media. I’ll spend a couple hours with you on a call, we’ll get you a new system. And no, do not rely on a brokerage or team for leads. So

D.J. Paris 54:16
I could not agree with you more I 100% on the same page.

Kelsey Charles 54:21
I’m pretty strong. So I’m sure I’m glad that you do. Okay. No, I

D.J. Paris 54:25
think you’re speaking your truth. And I think your truth lines with aligns with mine. And I’m sure there are firms that provide great leads and you can have a good career I guess doing that but 99% of firms that I’m aware of really that’s probably not the way you’re going to find success by by someone else’s leads if you want to purchase leads on your own and you want to do your own thing great. Or, you know, generate your own even better. Let’s talk a little bit about what what the role of a brokerage brokerage is. So if it’s not leads, if splits and all of those things are relative big So what should people be looking for when they’re trying to figure out which firms the right match?

Kelsey Charles 55:05
So for me, personally, I’m not looking for something in the dark ages, I don’t want to see. And I don’t really care about slits as new agent, whatever, go get some deals, get some experience and you like any job start to negotiate as you go on, but prove your value first. But I’m looking for technology. Or do they have bundled discounts? Because they do have this buying power? Can they get me time for like, $25 a month, my brokerage does offer that that’s 500 bucks a month, anywhere else? You’re looking right? So I have time, which is awesome. I have an artificial intelligence chatbot that talks to everyone that comes to my site. It sets appointments, there’s always someone there on my site. And that’s because real has created with this partnership, which is what is the back end support, like Okay, so when I was at Coldwell Banker, I couldn’t log into a virtual workplace and talk to anyone in my company that you can do that with exp, you can do that with real, the thing that overwhelmed me a little bit with exp was the whole virtual world. And then there’s okay, there’s this workplace and Hey, you, if you’re not selling, it’s your fault. But it’s like information overload. That’s what exp felt like to me. So I wanted to support new producers, but they’re like, where do I start? Like, how do I navigate this abyss? All the information, sometimes it’s too much information. And that’s why I prefer real, it’s a little simpler. I look for tech forward, what are the apps like? Like I said, the backend systems that not even just leave them like on the agent side? Is it tracking my Commission’s like, my 1090 died, and can I get support within the app, I can go right into a chat and have them come into my computer and fix the problem. Through Time through the real back end app. I’m buying stock because exp made me like a nice six figure amount just being invested in the company. I see that real has this huge potential, they have this big vision, they’re acquiring escrow companies, they are wanting to change the face of real estate. And we are like, everyone has a different vision, right. But I really believe in what real is and what they’re trying to be in, I’m fine if they worked in Kinkos, because, well, they work some kinks out, because I’m gonna benefit like I have, like 30,000 shares, if that goes up just a little bit my failure failure. I’m a millionaire, you know, and that was the story for a lot of people at EXP and you know, I don’t even know if I’m allowed to talk about that. So real sorry, if I wasn’t supposed to. I don’t know Not even you I my company, I think they tell you not to like use that to recruit. But that’s not the recruiting that’s just sharing like, Okay, that’s a benefit to me. And we have this app that we can go in the backend of and if we want, they use artificial intelligence to determine whether or not we can get our payment. So if I, if I haven’t sold for a couple months, pretty rare. But let’s say I have 10 pending escrows. I can click in the app. Artificial Intelligence determines how likely it is to close they have knows they know I’ve closed a lot of deals, this one’s falling out. But sometimes it I can get my commission straight through the app like months earlier. Closing deadline. And I think that’s huge. Because cash flow is the biggest problem with even producers, right? We have a lot of expenses. It’s hard to manage it just having that one thing opened up to me change my business a

D.J. Paris 58:11
lot. Yeah, I’m a part owner and a commission Advanced Business because yeah, and really we just offered internally for our agents, but because the cash flow is so challenging,

Kelsey Charles 58:23
and I haven’t noticed it and she would like to be paid whether or not I’m paid because she doesn’t make as much as me, you know what I mean? So I’m like, Okay, well, let’s figure this out. And you know, where I come from, I didn’t learn to like save money or budget, I have no business background. So I’m kind of figuring this out as I go. I don’t want anyone to suffer, you know, because of like me not having perfect, like accounting or bookkeeping skills. That’s helpful for me. I think real is gonna be super dope. I think it’s gonna blow up. And just seeing the people that came to the company from exp different brokerages. Maybe they weren’t feeling exp, but really, really spoke to them. I love the founder. He like comments and likes myself on social media. He’s like, Oh, hey, Kelsey, killin it. And hi, I’m like, How do you know who I am? Like, that’s just so cool, right? So I’ve been doing a lot of PR recently to bring attention to real because the more legitimacy it has a better idea. And no one’s heard of real yet, at least in why they’re like, Oh, you’re with real broker? And I was like, Yeah, I know. You’ll you’ll know as soon away.

D.J. Paris 59:22
I want to really conclude this with a difficult question. So I’m going to push you a little bit. Because in and I think you’re the first person I will ask this question to, and you’re the best person to ask this question to. Where are you struggling right now? You’ve had a tremendous success. You came from this really adverse sort of early life. You’ve now you’re crushing it in real estate, you’re authentic. You’re obviously doing well. What what are the struggles of a $25 million producer right now?

Kelsey Charles 59:58
Okay, so I’ve been are solid like growing too fast. And as awesome as that looks on paper, like I said, I do miss those calls. I mean, I get hundreds of texts a day, my assistant tries to wade through the best we can, but we do lose people. I mean, we lose opportunities, because my tic TOCs, blowing up like my Facebook Messenger, like, all of these avenues that are great to get clients, once you kind of like, become the go to person, you just lose people. And I’ve had people delete me on Facebook, like, oh, Kelsey, Charles doesn’t care about me. She didn’t respond to my message. And I’m like, Oh, my God, yes, I do. You did try hard enough to get through my wall, you know what I mean? Like, come to my assistant, my phone numbers right on there, I cannot reply to every Facebook message. And I’m sorry for that. And I really have tried to have like a virtual assistant handle it. But we give so much spam, that we’re literally then paying to wade through spam. So that’s why if you go to my Facebook page, it says please, PM, please DM me at this number before you pm me on Facebook, because it’s very unlikely that I will see it. And those clients that do get through that they’re like, Hey, I’ve been watching you for months, I’ve been messaging you on Facebook, and nothing will you please consult talk to me. And I’m like, Thank you for like getting through my processes. And farther down my funnel, you’re showing me you’re pretty serious. And as much as I would like to engage with everyone, I can’t number one. And then number two is I have no business background. So I’m not good at like firing people, they say you should hire slow fire fast. Like, I’m not going to fire someone unless they like, punch me in the face and steal my money. I don’t know, you know what I mean? Like it would take a lot, I’m going to try to find a role for them a way for us to work better together. But that’s like my social work background. And the way that I see conflict resolution is a lot different than a business person does, right. So that creating like other versions of me, can’t, I thought that was the thing that you could do. But like there’s one you and not everyone wants to be you know, everyone wants to work 100 hours a week, they don’t have this vision, like you can do talk up your mission statement all you want. But some people really just want to have a life. You know, they’re like, I want to go surf on the weekends, especially in Hawaii. Like they don’t want to work like me. So learning to accept that. And then learning to manage the money. Like you think it’s cool to make $600,000 a year until you never have and you’re like oh shit, I literally spent all of it. Every course that person told me to buy I did it. I spent like 300 grand one year on like, personal development that maybe helps. I mean, maybe it did it, I don’t know. But as far as like getting ahead, like I’ve not heard, I still feel like I’m just kind of figuring it out. And that some of that it’s gonna be wasted revenue. But there’s no clear path, like for business for real estate, and everyone has a different idea. And they all want you to pay $20,000 to find out what that looks like. So it’s like a lot of trial and error and getting to know yourself and who you are as a business owner. And then eventually, like, what is success for you? Like, a lot of people would say I’m successful, like, they’re like, Okay, you’re rolling in like 25 million a year. I mean, obviously just unsold volume, you should be doing well. But I’m like, that’s not afraid me. Like, I want to have this income. I want to affect these people’s lives. And I want to turn my phone off and five. So those

D.J. Paris 1:03:09
and and you’re not finished yet. And, and and maybe you never maybe you never will be Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 1:03:17
don’t know if you’re finished. Yeah. But the good news

D.J. Paris 1:03:21
is the problems don’t stop, but they’re a better quality of problem, right? So there used to be the problem of like, oh my gosh, I’m going into withdrawal. What do I do? How do I score methadone, Suboxone or whatever? And then how do I just stay alive? And normal to now it’s like, I still have problems. And I think that’s another really important thing is is your problems never go away? They just hopefully get a little bit of a higher quality of problem.

Kelsey Charles 1:03:54
Yeah, totally. No one that makes sense. And especially like bringing that to recovery is like, Okay, you’re always gonna have problems but like, at what level are you content? And I don’t know that I found that or if I’ll ever be content, but I’ve so to be completely honest, like I don’t have that peace in my life. Like I don’t have that Zen. Like a lot of people have like I don’t eat Okay, good. Because it’s I don’t know if that’s an added thing. I’m like always like chicken brain like a hamster. I don’t know. I’d love to have that someday and that means more to me than making $20 million. Me too. That might be something we never have and just have to be

D.J. Paris 1:04:27
okay with. Yeah, I’m to the point now where where I’m thinking like I’m very self critical and so I I’d never think I’m doing well even though you know and you might maybe you tell Yeah, you’re doing so well I don’t know if I’m killing it but but I’m certainly I’m certainly had some level of you know, a lot of people like are shown or grateful for that. And maybe I’ll always just feel a little bit less than and maybe that’s okay, as long as I have community and people to help prop me up. When I’m when I’m struggling. Maybe it’s okay to fall apart. And I think you know, you are, I think what really is coming through for me in this conversation is is this will this, this courage to be vulnerable? And and I almost think, not that I’m any sort of psychological expert. But if we look at the 12 step programs that exist, and they’re not just for addiction, they’re for lots of lots of instances of things that people struggle with. The big thing in there is surrender. Being finding community, finding supportive people who say I Oh, I’ve been where you are I, I love you the way you are, because I am you. And I think that’s one thing in real estate, you don’t have to feel alone, I guess is maybe the best part of the 12 step programs is this, this idea that we’re not alone, and there’s people that care, and you clearly care about your clients, you care about your co workers, you care about yourself, and you’ve taken steps to continue to increase the quality of your life. And I honor you, I am so impressed. Not that you need me to be impressed. And it’s not. Again, I’m hopefully that doesn’t come off as patronizing because you’re an incredible success. But I am, I am humbled by by your willingness to be vulnerable and say difficult things. Because there is a place for our own individuality within our real estate business, there’s a place for us to say, This is who I am, this is what I do. This is what I’m good at, here’s what I’m not good at it. Well, everyone has different boundaries around what they want to reveal. But this idea that you don’t have to go it alone is really important to find, find, you know, you know, I, as a marketer, I’m thinking, I’m always thinking like, gosh, you should start some sort of addict. You know, like group of Realtors, where you but but of course, that’s, you know, that’s why I love

Kelsey Charles 1:07:04
that. That’s what I wanted to do. So that next coming next is I want to open a sober living home and create like a sober living brand, where I connect all of the women with addicts, but successful, right, so like in AAA, but my own spin on it, because a wasn’t my thing. I don’t like to sit in rooms, they’re super boring to me. I don’t like all the attention. I’m like, oh, and everyone told me like, you won’t get sober that way. I was like, okay, like anything, I’m gonna find a way just whatever, leave me alone, I will find it. Right. And maybe that’s why I don’t have my serenity or my peace or whatever. But yeah, that’s my next thing is I want to find people like me, who think you know, knock on wood, haven’t committed felonies or anything. And that that’s my saving grace is like I did, but I didn’t get caught in if I had done I wouldn’t have the life I do today. But I think there’s opportunities for people in addiction to get the right people in their life, maybe console why? Which breaks them away from their living environment. Sure. And then I want to show them the way and I bet we’ll have like a huge success. Right? Yeah, totally.

D.J. Paris 1:08:06
Yeah, boy, I am so excited to continue to follow. You know what? Yes,

Kelsey Charles 1:08:12
yes. I hope we’re friends. And we stay in touch. And I wouldn’t really would like to keep in touch.

D.J. Paris 1:08:16
I yeah, I certainly hope so. I will, I will, I will hope to continue to learn more about what you’re up to, because I’m just so so honored and humbled by it. So on behalf of our audience, thank you. This was a long, a long conversation, but hopefully a very poignant conversation. And I think we provided a lot of value to our audience. So thank you, Kelsey, on behalf of the audience, for your willingness to share some hard things, and also to give some really great practical advice along the way. I mean, this really was kind of the full package and, and, and also just thank you for showing where they say like the Oliver Cromwell, story, warts and all, paint me with my warts and all right, like I this is, this is who I am. These are my battle scars. And we all have them in our own little way. And so on behalf of Kelsey and myself, we also want to thank our audience for sticking around to the end of this podcast, we honor you, you’re the reason that we keep doing this. And if you could just do speaking directly to the audience. Now, if you could help us in two ways that would be wonderful one is just tell a friend, tell somebody who needs to hear Kelsey story, send them a link to our websites, probably the easiest way just haven’t go to keeping it real pod.com Or, you know, there’s a lot of other ways you can find our show. You can just subscribe to keeping it real as well on any podcast app, but also so tell a friend and then please leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. This helps us get better helps us improve and also helps us get more in front of more eyeballs and ears. So thank you on behalf of all of us at the show with Kelsey and our audience. Thanks to everyone for helping make this a Fun show to do. Kelsey, thank you. And congratulations on your success. You’re a true inspiration to me. And I am excited to to build a friendship.

Kelsey Charles 1:10:10
Yes, please add me on Facebook. And if you ever want to do like a follow up or anything I’m happy to

D.J. Paris 1:10:15
and everyone should go check out Kelly’s website, which is Kelsey Charles homes.com. Hey, ELS, ey, Charles like, and then homes plural. Kelsey Charles homes.com. Link is in the show notes as well as her Instagram handle, which is Realtor in Hawaii. She’s amazing. She’s She’s honest, she’s vulnerable, and she’s very good at her job. So please reach out to her with any questions around marketing. Just any sort of realtor advice. She is a super generous kind person and wants to help so Kelsey, thank you so much, and we will see everybody You’re welcome. And we’ll see everyone on the next episode.

Kelsey Charles 1:10:53
I will talk to you soon.

Madison Reeves, the serial entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of both The Bridal Project and The Reeves Method, talks about how it was like to get her license at 18 and her accomplishments in the last 3 years she’s been practicing real estate. Madison also discusses how she categorizes talent and how she teaches goal setting. Next, Madison goes into money-mindset which helped her be successful in her business. Madison also discusses how to build and grow mindset. Last, Madison shares one universal piece of advice she’d give to agents.

Please check out Madison’s Best-Seller book and Podcast “Project Badass” here.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
On today’s show, we’re going to be speaking with a top producer and a real estate coach who’s only 20 years old. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. And in just a moment, I’m your guide and host I got ahead of myself in just a moment though. And I’m so excited, which is why I got ahead of myself, because for the first time on this show, we are speaking to a very young real estate top producer. In fact, she’s 20 years old. Her name is Madison Reed. She’s amazing. And she’s also a real estate coach. So I’m so excited. But before we get to Madison, bear with me just a few moments here. Please tell a friend about our podcast. We’ve done over 350 episodes and we keep growing our audience because you tell a friend so think of any other realtor that you know that could benefit from hearing from our show. Send them a link to keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve done can be streamed there. And also please leave us a review whatever podcast app you might be listening. You know, Apple podcasts, iTunes, Google Play Stitcher, Spotify excetera. Let us know what you think of the show. Leave us a review. Alright, enough for me. Let’s get on to our interview with Madison Reed.

Right today on the show we have Madison Reed and Christians real estate and Keller Williams Black Hills in South Dakota. Let me tell you about Madison Madison Reeves is a serial entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of the bridle project and the Reeves method, which is an event planning company and coaching program respectively. She’s also an award winning real estate agent, a recipient of the top 100 leaders in real estate Award and a top producing Sales Team Leader with Christians team Incorporated. Madison is driven to help other entrepreneurs seek growth and take control of their results to accelerate their business and lives. Now Madison grew up in a poor neighborhood in a small town and was determined to prove that anyone could fulfill their utmost potential regardless of where they came from. Now after dropping out of college and getting fired from several jobs that’s happened to me too. She had seemingly little to no direction in life. And it wasn’t until Madison discovered entrepreneurship and creating a life she loved that she found her true calling and purpose in life. Now she wants to share the liberation of an extraordinary life with others around her. Now Madison spends her time mentoring other real estate sales agents with production coaching. She also focuses on expanding her real estate team to provide others with the same life changing opportunity that was provided for her now check out Madison’s new book which is called Project badass breaking out of your comfort zone to transform from average to extraordinary which by the way has a perfect five star review and it’s not like there’s just one review there’s lots of reviews, perfect five star review on Amazon it’s available there and of course everywhere else books are sold and she’s a podcast host please check out her show I know I’m going to which is called Project badass vailable everywhere podcasts are served, but definitely visit her website to which is called which is project badass network.com Again Project badass network.com Madison Welcome to the show.

Madison Reeves 4:44
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me here. I’m excited.

D.J. Paris 4:48
You’re our very first South Dakota guest and we’ve not had a North Dakota guest and I’m just going to say it we’re never going to have a North Dakota guest because I don’t like North Dakota I only I’m only teasing I have no problems with either Dakota but I am excited to have I’m always I always love having people from, you know, we have so many people from California and New York, Chicago, you know, Florida. And I always love talking to people in other states where I’m not as familiar I was, I was telling Madison just before Not that anyone cares. But I’ve been to almost all the states in the country, and I haven’t been to either of the Dakotas. And there is a lot to see in both. So I am, I’m excited to be talking to you, because it reminds me of something I need to do, which is figure out how I’m going to get over there and cross that off of my, my list of visiting every state, but enough about me, nobody cares, let’s talk about you. So but you do so many different things. And and I’m I’m always so interested and admiring of people who come from, you know, maybe a background where a lot of the advantages that a lot of us have have just sort of enjoyed without thinking about maybe our backgrounds as much, you know, we just sort of that’s our background. I’m always love talking to people who come from maybe a more disadvantaged background. And I don’t mean that in any sort of pejorative sense. That’s just the reality of your situation. And that and how they really break through and rise above I find that so absolutely, just inspiring and encouraging. And I’m really grateful you’re here, I would love to start at the beginning of your real estate journey, because I know you do a million other things. On top of just being a real estate agent, by the way, a top real estate agent. But tell us a little bit about why you chose real estate.

Madison Reeves 6:27
Yeah, so I guess I’ll back up a couple of years before getting my license. I actually graduated high school when I was 16. And I had this whole plan of what I was going to do. And you know, as that goes, that didn’t happen. I went to college, I did a couple semesters of that before realizing it wasn’t really for me. So I ended up dropping out. And I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I was making like a how I don’t know, like $12,000 a year as a barista. And I was, I was very much just in the mindset of I don’t know what to do, I don’t know what the next steps are, I don’t have like a college education now is how I was raised, you have to get a college education in order to have a good job. So I discovered real estate after purchasing my first home with my ex husband. And I was like, Well, I’m not doing anything else. I kind of like this. So I’m gonna go ahead and get my license. And I got licensed in the state of South Dakota, like a month after I turned 18. And I started selling right away.

D.J. Paris 7:29
What let’s I’m gonna pause for a second because I want everyone to absorb this idea of somebody getting their license, which people can do in most states at 18. You could do it here in Illinois as well. And I imagine, you know, then you now have this arduous task of convincing people that an 18 year old knows enough to actually help them with this massive financial purchase or sale. And that in and of itself is a huge mountain to climb. So I just want to honor you for having the courage. Or maybe maybe it’s a desperation slash courage thing, but either way, the courage to follow through as an 18 year old I was, I was still like working. I mean, I was I was going to college. But I the idea of even starting a career was so far away for me, I really honor you for having the courage, but let’s talk about it. What was it like as an 18 year old to then get your license?

Madison Reeves 8:21
Yeah. So I often get asked, because, you know, I will be 21 in July. So I’m still very young. I’ve only been in this business for three years. But I get a lot of people that asked me, you know, and I focus mainly on multifamily and investments. So I worked with injectors who, you know, they’ve got a lot of money to put into real estate, and there’s just never been an issue. I’ve just never had anybody question it my age or my experience, but you just have to come with confidence and knowing what you’re doing. And I contribute a lot of that too. So backing up a little bit, I was on my first team within Keller Williams for six months. And I did about five transactions, which for six months amazing. All my sphere of influence. I liked it, but it wasn’t really the best fit for me team and culture wise. So I ended up transitioning to Christians team in April of 2020. So like, right when the world ended,

D.J. Paris 9:18
right at the perfect time.

Madison Reeves 9:19
Well, it could have gotten really bad, but luckily, you know, a pro of living in South Dakota is we never shut down. And in fact, in the real estate industry like exploded, sure, sure. Between April and the end of the year, so my first eight months on Christian’s team, I actually did 38 transactions.

D.J. Paris 9:41
So hold on, hold on, but we got to pause because to you this is like you already know all this. I want everyone to hear that. And by the way, you were what 20 At the time or a 1920 around there. I’ve just turned my team. Yeah. 19 year old doing 38 transactions in and it’s not like you didn’t grow up in a real estate firm. Amelie your sphere of influence, you have already sort of exhausted that. And by the way, who’s got a sphere of influence at 18? Nobody, so that in and of itself to do five transactions in six months, that’s amazing. And then to then go on and join a new team as a 19 year old, I’m only laughing because it’s so absurd. If you wrote that into a Hollywood movie about your life, the notes back you’d get from from the production company, you’d be like, well, that’s not believable. We’re just not we can’t do that. So really amazing.

Madison Reeves 10:27
All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. So yeah, I mean, it was a whole new, like, wow, okay, this is what it’s supposed to be like, I found my people, I know what I’m doing. I have the right training and the resources. But the coolest thing that happened in those eight months, while I was selling all this real estate is I discovered that I wanted to be a coach. And so in January of 2021, so last year, I transitioned into the role of sales team leader. And basically what that means is that my job is to find talent and recruit them onto the team. And I’m responsible for helping them into production. So I started in that in at the beginning of last year, and last year, I hired probably about five agents. And I did about 12 million and sales.

D.J. Paris 11:16
Of course, unbelievable. Here. And it’s amazing,

Madison Reeves 11:20
though, my goal is really to get out of production, I’ll probably do about 15 million in production this year, and then I’ll be done. So I’m going to focus just on coaching as of the end of the year, and really just finding the right people for the team expanding into other states and helping them do what I did and you know, be able to produce a lot and meet their goals they have. So

D.J. Paris 11:44
Wow, unbelievable. And you, you still can’t legally drink alcohol. That’s an amazing series of accomplishment, just just to put a just to put like a benchmark to it. I don’t mean, there’s anything about alcohol. But just the idea of that is so unbelievably mature of you. And I really, that’s I’m a bit awestruck, so congratulations on all that success. Let’s talk a little bit about and I want to back up for one moment, because you talked about working with investors, and a lot of our audience really doesn’t, doesn’t do that. They’re more traditional realtors who are you know, helping people buy and sell primary residences, most likely, however, Madison, I asked her that question earlier, and we didn’t really go back to it. I just want to follow up on it and explain why I think her answer made sense to me, but maybe not to the audience, which was, I said, it must have been tough to convince people to help them, you know, buy or sell homes when you’re so young and inexperienced. She was like, Yeah, it really wasn’t an issue, and she did a lot of multifamily investor stuff. And the reason my guess the reason why that age wasn’t a factor, really probably didn’t have as much to do with Madison’s competence or confidence, which she clearly has both. But it’s probably a lot of what investors really are looking for are the deals, they don’t really, it’s not as important to them. What the pedigree or the experience, they just want their numbers, people they want to see, they want to see the numbers and Madison went out and found amazing deals and said, Look, if you don’t, if you don’t want to invest in this, there’s lots of other people that can so am I am I on the right track with that is that why age didn’t matter as much.

Madison Reeves 13:21
I think that was definitely part of that, especially with the investors. So the reason that I love doing investment, real estate is because there’s no emotions, it’s residential real estate, they’re buying their first house or the home that they’re going to raise their kids and like it’s a big deal. But I’m in investment, real estate, even though I’m selling residential investment, and not really diving into the commercial world. But the investors don’t care facts don’t care about feelings in this world. So just looking for someone who’s going to work the nights and weekends, to run numbers on 100 different deals before we find the right one. And to just honestly shoot them straight, you know, don’t push them around or tell them things that just to make them feel better if you just tell them how it is like they a lot of people appreciate that.

D.J. Paris 14:09
Let’s also and you’re you’re a recruiter and a coach. And to me those are oftentimes one in the same in this industry. And oftentimes, it’s the managing brokers are the ones that often have to do the recruiting, and I’m somebody who does recruiting for our company, and I am not the managing broker, thankfully. And I get to devote a lot of time to that. And I know what that chat the challenges in that piece are I don’t do coaching. Thankfully, that would be something that I wouldn’t be very skilled at. But I admire that you’re doing both and I’m curious on when you’re out there. And I’m curious when you’re out there looking for talent because I think this will help a lot of the listeners who maybe are solo practitioners, it’s just them. They’re not on a team. And right now of course teams are so prominent in the news and in communities like that. seems to be where real estate is headed, and are in his heading and has been heading. And it’s very common. And so we get a lot of questions from our audience that are like, how do we go about finding the right team? Well, I’m so grateful to have you because you’re somebody that’s looking for team members. And I’m curious, of course, we want to make sure we, for anyone in your local area that we talked about if they’re interested in joining your team, how they might join you, but I would love to hear what you look for in an agent, because you also talked about developing talent. So it doesn’t necessarily, I’m the way I heard it was yes, I’m sure you’d love to have top 1% producers on exclusively on the team. But I like it sounds like you also bring on newer agents and really try to build up their production is. And so I’m curious on when you’re out there trying to look for talent to join the team. What do you look for?

Madison Reeves 15:48
Yeah, absolutely. So before I answer that question, it’s important to understand that there’s really three types of talents. So are talented people. So you have proven talent, emerging talent, or potential talent. So whenever I’m meeting with someone who goes, you know, all I’m thinking about real estate, maybe they already have their license, and they’re selling a couple of deals, but they’re doing it part time, I really like to categorize them into whether they’re you no proven emerging, or a potential talent, because it’s different for everybody. But really, what I’m looking for, what I’m looking to recruit someone to the team is somebody who has a track record of success, and doesn’t have to necessarily be in real estate. But with my age, I attract a lot of younger people naturally. And they go, Wow, Madison, look at all these things that you’re doing the opportunities that you have, like, I want to do the same thing. And that’s, that’s great, and everything, but having that, you know, when was the first time you tried to make money on your own? I actually asked that in every interview, because I get questions from, you know, I was doing a lemonade stand when I was seven or eight so that I could buy popsicles, because my mom wouldn’t give me allowance or,

D.J. Paris 16:55
you know, that counts. Right. And that’s, that’s important. Yeah,

Madison Reeves 16:58
I mean, having that entrepreneurial spirit is really important. And just making sure that they’re, you know, their, their talent, and they have, they’re willing to take ownership, they’re not, they don’t have any victim mentality. And really, the biggest one for our team is that they’re a good culture fit. Because if you can fit in with our culture, and if you work hard, we will find you the right seat on the bus. And that’s, that’s just really what it comes down to. But it’s asking the right questions, having them self develop of self discovery, I should say, of whether real estate is really right for them or not. So we have a very extensive, very extensive interview process, they go through like five or six interviews before we give them the Yes,

D.J. Paris 17:41
wow, that’s, uh, but I guess, I guess that’s really smart. Because you want to make sure they’re the right fit, you want to make sure they can handle five or six interviews, because we all know that oftentimes, especially you know, when it’s somebody who’s not in your existing sphere of influence, who may hire you to help them buy or sell a property, they might be, they might be interviewing a number of different Realtors as well, you’re probably you might be third on the call sheet for, you know, going in for a listing presentation. So this idea that they can continue to come back. And it’s almost like an indicator of can you handle five or six interviews, which is a lot. And that’s hard. For a lot of people, it’s stressful. But it’s also a great weed out system, I’m sure to say, hey, we need to make sure that you’re the right fit is we’re going to invest a lot of time and energy in you, Mr. or Mrs. Agent. And we want to make sure that that you can handle our process. And it’s not to torture them. Of course, you guys really want to make sure it’s the right fit. But that’s really interesting. I love that process. Because I’m sure there are some people that just self select out, just go, you know, this isn’t for me.

Madison Reeves 18:45
I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had the first interview, and they’re like, they just don’t show the second one. All right, well, but I mean, in our interview process is set up that way. We also have a very extensive training process their first 90 days or are very full on. But the way I see it is this is a this is a hard industry, you know that I know that there are there days where we don’t want to continue to do our job, it’s difficult. And if they can’t handle five or six interviews and the training process, we put them in the first 90 days, they’re probably not going to cut it in there. And the industry and it’s it’s kind of it’s maybe comes across as a little mean or whatever, but it’s just the truth. I mean,

D.J. Paris 19:27
it is it is the truth. And I want to talk about this idea that I know is really important to you. And I want to set it up a little bit with this idea of learning how to get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I mean when I say uncomfortable, I mean uncomfortable, healthy things that we all go you know, I should be doing more of or less of x. But you may find yourself not not finding doing that because it’s uncomfortable. I met a woman, many many years ago, was a writer and she had this really interesting project For the for a year, every week, she wrote down a lot of fears and like challenges and insecurities and things that were just like, oh, I don’t do that, or I couldn’t do that, or that’s just not who I am. And she said, every week, I’m going to tackle one of these things. And I said, by the end of this year, you are going to be completely like unstoppable. Because nothing all these things, you know, if you can find the courage to step into the fire, and you know, be do a trapeze class, which was one of the things she did. And it’s not like, you’re gonna conquer your fear of heights, per se. But now you’re like, I can still do that, even though I’m terrified. I’m curious on how important it is immune again, you have done so many things at such a young age, all of which are really things that young people your age don’t do, let’s be honest, they don’t start podcasts, they don’t become top real estate agents. And they certainly don’t coach people, right? That is a very awesome thing that that I’m really proud of you only knowing you for a short time. But I’m like, wow, that is incredible. But that’s you stepping outside of your comfort zone. So I’m curious. Let’s talk about that. How important is it to learn how to step into discomfort?

Madison Reeves 21:10
Yeah, it’s I mean, it’s what I wrote my book about, my entire book about error is about getting out of your comfort zone. So with that being said, I love the way that your friend that you’re talking about did it because I kind of do the same thing. I believe getting out of your comfort zone is a muscle and the more you work a muscle, the stronger that that gets. So I try to push myself to do things that I don’t want to do. But usually, it’s things like, for example, I was in Vegas last year, and I did not want to jump off this building, but I jumped off the building because I was didn’t want to do it. You know, basically, if I ever am like, Oh, that would be kind of fun to do. And then I start thinking and get in my head and go, Oh, I don’t want to do it. Like I have to do it then. So you know, whether that’s jumping out of planes or shark diet, when you’re traveling to a different country by yourself. Like I really pushed myself out of my comfort zone in my personal life. And that builds that muscle, it makes that muscle stronger so that I translate over into business as well.

D.J. Paris 22:19
But it it’s a muscle, so it needs to be exercised often. Right? Because like, I mean, it’s okay to feel fear, right? It’s okay. It’s it’s a normal human reaction, we all feel it. Every time I go into the gym, and it’s lower body day, like leg day. I’m like, I hate this. It’s scary, it hurts. It’s the worst. And but I but I just have to do it. I don’t have to. I don’t have to, like fall in love with working out my my quads, because I don’t understand people who like that. But there are people, of course, the two, but all I have to do is do the exercise. And if I can just shut off my brain enough to go, hey, you know what, it’s healthy for you. It’s a good idea, just do it, then I get to feel proud of myself especially. And I think that’s that’s really something that doesn’t get talked about enough is the feeling of pride that you have in doing something that’s really difficult. And you are somebody that is constantly doing incredibly difficult things. Can we talk a little bit about that, even if maybe the goal doesn’t get achieved in the like, whatever the outcome you really want are, I have always been way more impressed with my own effort than the actual results because the results kind of like they either happen or they don’t. But if I can, if I can get myself just to take action, which is the hardest part. I think if you can do that, if I can do that, then I ended up going well, it might not have worked out the way I wanted to. But boy, that was hard. And I did that. And I get a little pat on the back a self pat on the back.

Madison Reeves 23:49
Right. Yeah. So I mean, I think that it just comes down to fear is a natural human emotion. And we all we all experience it quite frequently. It just It matters how you do it, how you handle it, you know, don’t let it shut you down, but let it wake you up and and the more that you do these difficult things, the more that your subconscious mind is going to go, oh, okay, I have the capability to complete all of these things. So and speaking towards like the where you’re regarding the actions, that’s actually something that I coach all of my agents on when goal setting. So we go set to things that you have in your direct control. Yeah, of course, we have an outcome that we want to get. So put this in terms that you know, real estate agents that are listening to this can understand if my outcome is to get an under contract to get a property under contract. That’s not my goal. My actual goal is to you know, have 25 Two way conversations with leads in my CRM, because you can control that. Yep. So that’s what I teach all of my agents because we’re kind of setting ourselves up for failure. If we’re goal setting things that week. can’t control, you know. So for another example would be I set a goal to write and publish my book. But I’m not the outcome, of course is I want to sell as many copies as possible, I want to be a best seller, I want to have a ton of reviews, whatever, I want it to be amazing. But my goal is writing it because I can control that. So that’s something that I teach every every agent that I work with. And I personally think that it’s very effective.

D.J. Paris 25:24
I agree. And I was thinking about a joke that I’ve right, humor, I’ve been doing that for a long time. And and some, oftentimes people will ask who know that I Right. They’ll say, oh, what’s the funniest joke? I’m not really a joke person. But say, what’s the funniest joke you ever heard? And I say, Well, I don’t know if it’s the funniest. But I like this joke, probably the most of any joke I’ve ever heard, because it’s the truest thing I’ve ever heard. And, and this isn’t a religious statement at all, it just happens to have a little bit of a religion in it. So I apologize for anyone listening who, who doesn’t like the word God, which by the way, I’m not trying to say anything other than it’s just this joke has it? So the joke is, and it’s a really simple, it’s not even really a joke. It’s, we make plans, God laughs. And I always thought that is so perfect, because it’s exactly what you’re talking about. There’s a lot of things that we just don’t control. You know, things happen, whether something goes under contract, whether it doesn’t, whether your book becomes you know, international bestseller, or it sells a modest number of copies, again, a bit outside of your control. But there are things you can do like jumping on podcasts, of course, promoting it, making sure that you’re getting your name out as best you can, which that you can you out you can control. So I always like that joke that if you can, you want to use that as the number name of your next book that that’s there’s, there’s, there’s maybe there’s a better way to say it, but I always love that joke. I want to talk about money mindset, because you are somebody who who talks about not coming from a super, you know, economically advantaged background, right? So it’s not like you grew up with all this extreme wealth, and you just know what it’s like to sell, you know, expensive homes or help people in that way, because it wasn’t your your background. How did you change your mindset to then begin to allow for like working with investors, or even just people, you know, wanting to buy or sell, you know, homes that might be different from the kind of home homes that you grew up in?

Oh, you’re muted. Sorry,

Madison Reeves 27:25
crap. Sorry. I

D.J. Paris 27:26
have like, Oh, no problem. I was like, Oh, my gosh, something just went wrong. Which by the way, that happens, too. But it didn’t. Madison accidentally muted yourself. So you heard my question, though, go right ahead.

Madison Reeves 27:37
What I said was, that’s a great question. And to put it into perspective, I actually grew up in a town of about 5500 people. I’m very small, like, everybody knows everybody, there’s no secrets. And my family grew up very poor. monetarily, we always, you know, had food on the table roof over our head and clothes on our backs. But it was definitely more of like a poor mindset when it came to money as well. what was expected of me when I was growing up and becoming an adult, was to get a job that pays, you know, 10 to $15 an hour work 40 hours a week, you know, I probably get a husband he worked to we have a couple of kids live in a, you know, a small but decent house. And like that was that was good for me. Sure. So what really changed my mindset was when I joined the real estate team I’m on now. And it was mostly because I was in in the environment with all of these people who are making so much more so much more money than I was, and we’re doing things with that money and was they were, you know, improving their lifestyle. And I’m like, okay, so I need to jump on the boat or not. And so, you know, we are the sum of the five people we spend the most time with. And I just found that being in a room of, you know, 10 people and those other 10 people are making over six figures, and I made 12 grand last year, I need to get my shit together.

D.J. Paris 29:02
And and you see that it’s possible. You’re like, Oh, now I know people who do this. And they’re doing the same thing I’m doing and maybe they’re more skilled, because I’m newer. But I can learn how to do that. Like, why couldn’t I do that? Yeah,

Madison Reeves 29:14
I mean, success is simple. It’s not easy. All you have to do is just follow the clues that people leave. You know, what they did that you want to accomplish as well. And it is quite simple. The hard part is staying consistent. And you know, doing it when you don’t see results come right away. So

D.J. Paris 29:30
I’ve always thought that was something that agents, you know, this this whole podcast that I do is really very simple. I talked to the top 1% of agents across the country and I say how’d you do that? Right? It’s a very simple concept. And I when I first started doing the show, before I actually started producing I went well the biggest challenge is going to be guests because you know people are going to be who these top producers gonna be too busy to talk. They’re not going to have time they don’t care about my stupid pie. gasps, they’re just not interested. And also they’re there. These are people I don’t hang out with, you know, we have a lot of people agents at our firm, but I don’t really go out and meet agents at other firms. And it was just the opposite. I found that some of these top almost we almost never get turned down. And it’s not because I’m so special. I’m not. But it’s just because I reached out and said, Hey, would you share your story. And I think that’s a huge lesson. For anyone listening who may be struggling. And Madison just said, it is really important thing, you know, we are maybe the average, or the sum of the five people we hang out with the most. And we’re not here to say, you need to ditch all of your friends, what we’re here to say is there are people you can emulate and hang out with. And by the way, when you ask somebody, can I take you for a cup of coffee and find out how you did that? That is a an incredibly flattering thing. And more often than not, they’re going to be so honored that you did that. And they’re going to just tell you everything they did to become successful. So I really appreciate you saying that, because getting around people who have who, especially people who started without like a sphere of influence, and people who didn’t necessarily have what a lot of people think are what you need to be successful right away. Those are people you want to hang out with and learn. But I want to also talk about how do you identify? What, because I know this is important to you? How do you identify? And as a coach, you do this a lot? Sorry, I interrupted myself twice? How do you identify what’s holding you back from success?

Madison Reeves 31:28
So? That’s a great question. I have always been very self aware, it’s probably one of my best soft skills. And it was just something I naturally developed. It definitely, it’s a muscle you can strengthen over time, the more that you use it. But I mean, I have a coach who will call me out if I need to be called out, because that’s good for everybody. So that’s a big part of it. But it’s just being really in tune with yourself and having clarity on where we’re going. If I didn’t know what my outcome was long term, short term, and the next year or five years, whatever that looks like, it’s really hard to be self aware with yourself, because you don’t know the direction you’re supposed to be following. So when I’m thinking about things that you know, if I know my direction, and if I know my, you know where I’m trying to get to, and I have real clarity on that. But I feel like I’m being held back from something, well, then all I have to do is just do some investigation to figure out what that is, and then fix it because I know where I’m going. So clarity is a huge, huge priority for me in my businesses. And it’s what I coach all of my agents because you don’t know what you don’t know. So it’s really important to really outline all that and get everything down on in black and white and on paper.

D.J. Paris 32:44
Yeah, I agree. Really well said. And I want to back up for a moment because Madison, who is a coach, also has a coach, like what do coaches need coaches? Of course they do? Of course they do, right? And it’s not because you’re young, and you’re like, Well, I’ve only been in the business a few three years, I don’t really, it’s you’ll probably have a coach when you’re 75 years old, I’m guessing because because coaches like you said they can identify our blind spots. And it’s not because you’re like not motivated. Or obviously you’re disciplined and you’re not stupid. And you’re not like I’m just gonna let someone else fix all my problems. No, you’re a take charge go get get her independent woman, by the way. And this is a I’m so glad we’re having you on during women’s history month. Just funny timing, because I think you are a great example of what what you know, not just what a woman can accomplish, but what anyone can, but I’m glad I’m talking to you this month. But I want to talk about choosing a coach and I know that you do coaching and by the way, are you interested in our audience, if your audience reaches out to you to do coaching, are you only coaching people on your team and in your immediate area?

Madison Reeves 33:56
So I do, I do have some openings for independent coaching, I only take on a few people at once, just based on my schedule. So I actually only have three openings right now. But yeah, anybody in any industry real estate or not? If they’re interested, they can absolutely reach out to me.

D.J. Paris 34:12
I love that. And let’s talk about so we talked about maybe how to identify some of the challenges and we all have challenges, it’s normal, if you didn’t have challenges, you’re lying to yourself, or you’re just unaware everyone has challenges, you’re gonna have challenges your whole life. That’s why coaches are so great. You know, it’s why therapists are so great. There’s so many professions designed to help people with their human challenges. But once we sort of figure that part of it out and sort of know ourselves a bit better, then I want to talk about choosing sort of making choices that really help you to to go in the direction that you want, despite the fact that you have challenges because we all have them. And really, I think we’re talking about mindset. I know that’s a big, big thing for you. So how do you go about staying in a mindset that is supportive to you, especially in those moments where things aren’t going well.

Madison Reeves 35:06
Yeah, that’s a great question. So really, it’s funny that you brought this up, because this topic is exactly what I talked about in my first episode that I’ve published for my podcast. So I’ll you know, you want to listen to it and dive deeper into it. But basically, where it comes into is your big why? Why do you do what you do every single day, if you don’t know what motivates you, then it’s really easy to you know, get held up when there’s big challenges or objections, it’s easy to you know, I don’t want to lead generate today, because it’s boring. And I don’t want to be told no or hung up on, you know, or I don’t want to do this showing all of that crap that we all deal with, we all hear that it’s our drunk monkey on our shoulder. But if we know where we’re going, and why we’re doing it, we have that clarity there, there’s a lot of power in it. So I talk a lot about this in the first episode of my podcast, actually, which worked out perfectly for timing wise. But there’s this Japanese theory basically, where your calling and your big why’s basically the intersection of what you love, what you’re great at what the world needs and what you can get paid for. So that’s really your big why. And if you can discover that, and lead with that and make decisions in your business and your lifestyle with that. I found at least that I don’t have the mindset of oh, I don’t want to do that today. Because I’m I’m working for something bigger than myself.

D.J. Paris 36:30
Yeah, it’s more than the current challenge that’s right in front of you at that moment, right. So like, I can think about it in relationship, it’s easy for me, I’m in a relationship, to get mad at my girlfriend, if she does something or says something that I don’t like. And we all struggle with these parts of relationships, right? It’s easy for me to be like, Oh, you said this, or you did this or and we can do that back and forth? Of course. And yeah, fine, whatever. Is it productive? Probably not. But it’s easy to do it when there’s this immediate problem that were challenged. This actually just came up this morning, we had a slight disagreement. So I’m just like, I’m getting all upset. And then I and then I had to take a breath. And I had to say, what’s my long term goal here, oh, I want to marry this person. And I want to spend the rest of my life with them. And they’re like the most amazing person I’ve ever met. So even though in the immediate moment, I’m struggling with this, you know, interaction, which is like no big deal, but in the moment, it feels like everything. And then or, you know, the client hangs up on you, or whatever the deal falls through, or whatever your struggles are, and then you go back to Okay, yeah, bumps in the road happen. But this is the most amazing person I’ve ever met. And that helps reset. So I’m curious on how you reset when you’re in that you know, your why. And do you have any techniques about going back to your why in those moments of like extreme hardship, where you’re like, oh, that’s just not working? Yeah, absolutely.

Madison Reeves 37:53
So that’s, that’s another great question. So this is actually a technique that my my coach shared with me. So basically, when we face problems, we need to get ahead of myself. So we’re looking at two scales, I want you to imagine that we have a scale over here from one to 10, and a scale over here from one to 10. Now, this scale over here is my level of mindset. And my commitment to my big why. So let’s say just for example, sake, on a scale of 110, or one to 10. On this side, I’m a six. If my problem is an eight, when I have a six, it’s going to feel like the world is ending. But if a problem is a two, when I’m a six, it’s not even a bump in the road. So basically, what my what my business coach taught me is that you need to continue to move yourself up on this scale, that these problems become smaller.

D.J. Paris 38:44
So in my example of getting upset with like, I hate to say this, because if she listened, she’s gonna be so upset that I’m airing our grievances, but really, it’s no big deal. We’re doing I hope we’re doing good. But now we know I’m teasing. I’m teasing. But no, I would never I would never, if we were really having problems it would not be talked about on the show, but but I’m using it as example because it came up but here’s, here’s what you really just just said to me, I get your mindset in order first. And that’s the part we can control. I can’t control if someone says something crappy to me, or if my girlfriend’s having a bad day and just kind of you know, has a bad moment. Of course, that’s those moments are going to happen. But in this case, I hadn’t got my mind set in the right spot before that happened, because I didn’t think to do that. And had I had woken up in the morning and for 20 seconds gone. Remember this amazing person lying next to you like this is the person who wants to spend the rest of her life with me, like how lucky am I and that might have helped shoulder some of this. This this particular interaction we had hours later. So what we’re really talking about is that’s what you can control you can control waking up and putting yourself in the right mindset, but you have to go first right

Madison Reeves 40:00
Yes, absolutely, you know, if you’re a two on this one, and you get a five, I mean, it literally feels like the world is ending. So and it could be something so simple, but you don’t have the skills and the knowledge and the mindset to be able to deal with that. So it feels like, you know, you’re trying to climb up Mount Everest here.

D.J. Paris 40:16
I just last night, I have to I have to share this. I’m so sorry. I feel like I’m hijacking our interview. But I think this will be really helpful because it blew my mind i I’m in a DBT class. And if people don’t know what that is, it’s it’s, it’s called dialectical behavior therapy. And I’m very fortunate to be in this course, it’s very hard to get into them right now. They’re, it’s very popular. It’s basically considered the gold standard in emotional regulation and mindfulness. And it’s a skill set. It’s not therapy, in the traditional sense of lying on a couch and talking about your life. It’s just learning skills. And we learned a skill last night that absolutely blew my mind. It’s so simple, and I won’t go into it. But it’s called cope ahead. And what I loved about it, the idea is that you can sort of fantasize or imagine what situations which will be difficult. And we all know in real estate, every transaction, there’s there’s a wrinkle, there’s at some point, something goes wrong. And it seems like the end of the world. And so we’re talking about mindset, right? So this idea that you can even fan I just fantasize isn’t the right word. But you can imagine he could vividly imagine, there’s something that is going to go wrong in every part of your life at some point. And you can’t predict when that is or what that is, but you can be honest about it and say, Hey, I’ve got this really big sale right now. And it’s everything’s going smooth. But at some point, there’s going to be a problem. And that’s just how things go. And I’m going and so we learned this skill last night called cope ahead, where you can vividly imagine yourself going through something that’s going to suck, it’s going to suck to get that call that says, You know what, I don’t want to work with you anymore, or whatever. And you can do your best to go, okay, how am I going to react? And you can actually imagine yourself as the person and it isn’t. What’s so great about it is it’s not a sort of a losers mentality. It’s being honest and saying things are gonna go wrong? And how do I give myself the best possible mindset so that when it happens, like you were saying, it’s a two, as opposed to a nine, because I’ve already prepared in advance of what what what resources I need, in order to to be able to handle that when it happens. And then like you’re saying, it’s not as big of a deal. So I apologize for going on a bit of a rant there. No, and

Madison Reeves 42:22
that actually plays perfectly into what I wanted to mention next is the more that you build and grow your mindset, you’re continuing to work that logical problem solving muscle, and as you know, kind of a repeating theme of today’s conversation. But to be honest with you, I actually like enjoy those problems. It’s kind of weird, but you know, when I get a phone call on a transaction, and it’s like, okay, well, this is probably going to be an issue. I’m like, alright, well, I like to solve the problems. So I don’t even see it as like a really big issue anymore. Because I know that I have the skill set and the mindset in order to handle whatever comes my way.

D.J. Paris 43:00
Because you practice having the mindset that allows you to handle those situations. And it like any other muscle that you were saying it gets stronger, and things become less important, because you realize they’re all just blips in the road, there’s there’s peaks, there’s valleys, I win some I lose some it all just happens. And instead of looking at the garden, saying there’s no weeds, there’s no weeds, there’s no weeds, it’s like no, the weeds will take over, if you don’t acknowledge them. And what you’re saying is I it’s not that my life is perfect, or I want it to be perfect, because that’s silly. But this idea that my life is manageable, I can handle the imperfections of life. And that is the real in my mind, that’s the most important skill set anybody can have. It’s the best thing you can do for mindset. And your book teaches people how to do that. I want to remind everyone, if you’re not that you’re just tuning in now, but remind everyone Madison has a book that tells you all about this. And, you know, you might think well, gosh, she’s 20 years old, what is she? What kind of Wisdom does she have, she has enough wisdom to have written an amazing book that has amazing reviews, she has a publicist, she’s a real estate coach, she’s on one of the most successful teams in the state. And she goes out recruiting talent, and probably you don’t probably even meet a lot of people who are as young as you in this industry. So check out her book, which is called Project badass, can find out on Amazon everywhere else and her brand new podcast, which is called also project badass, which you can visit project badass network.com And I want to ask you one last question. So this question is, what’s one piece of advice that you would have for our audience? Again, some of them are top producers. Some of them are brand new and or people who are struggling in between? What’s one piece of advice that you would say if you were coaching our entire audience, which are all different people? What’s one universal piece of advice that you find really works for everybody?

Madison Reeves 44:56
Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great question. So um, The biggest shift in my business as a real estate agent, was when I started to think like a business owner and not just a real estate agent. So real estate agents get in this habit where they are just focusing on the next deal. What’s the next deal? What’s the next deal versus thinking of it as the CEO who is working on developing a successful full scale business? So you know, what does that look like I have systems in place, I know my numbers, I know what I need to do and what I need to produce in sales, I know where I’m going, I have that clarity piece of where I want to end up. And I’m really treating my real estate business like a business and not just, you know where the next deal is. And the reason that is so important is because when you shift over to that business owner mindset versus just a real estate agent, we’re really more in an abundance mindset. So we’re not worried about the deal that falls apart, or the one you know, the for sale by owner who hangs up on you, or the expired listing who wants to take a different agent, we’re not worried about that, because we see the bigger picture, and we know where we’re going, that would be my biggest piece of advice.

D.J. Paris 46:05
I love that. And it really, again, distances you from the immediacy of any challenge, when you have that sort of long term vision. And again, I always think direction is so important, it’s like I just want to head in this direction. And that might be your vision, whereas I don’t know where I’m gonna end up. But I’m heading in this direction, it’s a very specific direction, I love direction. And if, if you’re heading in a direction, yes, that’s gonna fly at you all the time. That’s just part of the deal. And this, so I, I love every, every part of your messaging today. And the fact that you are this clear about how to help people at such an early age of your life is maybe the most incredible part of it all is that most people I know, I didn’t have it figured out before I turned, oh, God, I don’t know, mid 30s, maybe. So this idea that you you have a huge jump is really amazing. And I am really excited to follow your trajectory and your growth, you know, over the years, because you’re not done evolving, as well. And so I’m very excited if you’ve done all of this, by by your current, you know, your early age. And I don’t mean to say that with any sort of neg negative, it’s just very unique. And I honor you for that. So I want everybody to really check out what Madison is up to project badass network.com is where you can go to learn about the book, the podcast, this, you know, I’m sorry,

Madison Reeves 47:32
that coaching if they are interested in coaching with me, it’s on my website as well.

D.J. Paris 47:36
Yeah. And could you mind sharing your email address for anyone out there who wants to just reach out directly to you? Do you have an email that that they can meet? That sort of I communicate with you that way?

Madison Reeves 47:47
Yeah, absolutely. So the best place to reach out email would probably be Hello at to the Madison reeves.com.

D.J. Paris 47:55
Awesome. So check out project badass, the podcast go by the book. And this is somebody who is I mean, she’s already a superstar, and she’s going to be going on to do bigger things. And she’s going to be helping a lot of people along the way. So you want to hitch your wagon, to somebody that is all about helping because that is just you know, the most important thing I found in life is having supportive people in my orbit, who say I know how to help you with that if assuming you want to be helped. And Madison is devoting a good chunk of her life to doing just that. So if you’re looking for a coach, she’s an amazing person. If you’re in the South Dakota area, state and you’re looking for a team to join, she wants to talk to you as to like it’s Christians, Team real estate with Keller Williams. I mean, what’s better than Keller Williams right, Gary Keller, he’s the he’s the king, and you get all of their training, and, of course, all of Madison’s help along the way. So definitely check them out as well, Madison, I am so, so grateful to have you on the show today. You’re amazing inspiration. And I’m excited to be able to introduce you to our audience. So thank you. On behalf of our audience. Thank you for spending time today. I know you don’t have time to do this. So thanks. And also on behalf of Madison and myself, we want to thank our audience for continuing to listen watch support our show. So after you’re done subscribing to our podcast and buying her book, one, two things we ask you to do one, tell a friend about this episode. Best way to do that, just send them a link to our website, keeping it real pod.com. And every one of our episodes can be streamed right there. Or if they’re a podcast person, just pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real, hit that subscribe button. And then last, please leave us a review. Whatever podcast app you might be listening to us on. Let us know what you think of the show. You don’t have to give us a five star review if you don’t want to but we hope you do. But let us know good and bad. We want to continue to improve the show is for our audience and any information you can provide us will help us continue to get better. So thank you so much Madison, we’re honored to speak to you and we wish you continued success.

Madison Reeves 49:55
Awesome. Thank you

Deanna Kory from The Corcoran Group in Manhattan talks the importance of her mission to educate people. Deanna returns to the beginning of her career in real estate and discusses her grandmother who inspired her to start down this path. Deanna also talks about the importance of staging in the era of picture-perfect image world and how to handle clients who refuse staging. Next, Deanna talks about her philosophy around building a business and her personal touch when in communication with clients. Last, Deanna provides her take on what’s going on in the market today and where it is going.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
We’ve probably heard that staging helps sell homes faster and for more money, but let’s talk to somebody who is super passionate about it. Today’s episode, this episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide, and host through the show and in just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with top producer Deanna quarry who by the way has sold over 2 billion in real estate in her career. So super excited to hear from Deanna before we get to Deanna a couple of quick reminders please tell a friend about our show. Think of just one other realtor that could benefit from hearing from top producers like Deana send them a link to our website which is keeping it real pod.com. Also, please leave us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. The way you can do that is whatever podcast app you might be using. If you are using one, go to their to their review section and leave us a review. Let us know what you liked about our show. And also what you’d like to see us improve or change we’re always reading every comment and it really helps us to get more visibility more listeners and also like I said to improve But enough about that let’s get to the main event our interview with Deanna quarry.

Today on the show we have Deanna Perry from the Deanna quarry team in New York, also part of the Corcoran Group. Let me tell you a little bit about Deanna Deanna quarry has distinguished herself as one of Manhattan’s top brokers by all measures and continuously ranks among the top five agents and sales volume within the Corcoran Group year over a year. Now with over 36 years of experience in the industry. She has built a reputation as a hard working broker with a great intellect, knowledge, sensitivity and expertise and has built and leads an incredible team of esteem professionals, Deanna has sold this amazing well over 2 billion of residential real estate in Manhattan. Oh yeah. And in only in the last decade, which is beyond incredible, and her team has a unified and strong presence throughout the city. And a testament to Diana’s marketing success is the sheer variety and depth of her transactions. Deanna has marketed and sold apartments and townhomes of all varieties, and is headed up several sales teams in major new developments including one $300 million project where she was responsible for over 100 million in sales. Within nine months. She is lauded in the industry and by her loyal clientele for her brilliance in marketing, and negotiating and is highly sought after for her perspective on the state of the market. Deanna stands out in the industry as a pioneer in staging properties for resale, and has a keen knowledge of what it takes to create a visually appealing space by improving or even redesigning what exists in order to increase the market value of a property. Please everyone visit danas website, which is Deanna quarry.com and spell that D A N N A and KSRKORY I’m gonna give it one more time da nnakory.com. And Deanna, welcome to the show.

Deanna Kory 4:36
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I’m excited to be here.

D.J. Paris 4:40
I am excited to have you and since I just get your website before we get started, I wanted to point something out that I after, gosh, I think 350 episodes over five years I don’t think I’ve seen before. I really encourage everyone to visit the website by the way. The website link is in our show notes. So you can you can see that if you’re listening through a pod test app, the reason I’m gonna direct you to her site other than, aside from it just being a great website is what she did specifically, what we call above the fold. And what above the fold means is really, when someone first visits a website, the initial sort of screen that they see without having to scroll, like what’s the first impression, and which she did I have never seen before, quite frankly, among all the guests I’ve had, if we think about, oftentimes, what Realtors do for their website is they often have, you know, there may be some made major sort of splash image, or maybe more, maybe even more. More commonly, you’ll see a search engine like, Hey, you want to look for properties. Here’s Danna, didn’t do that. And instead her above the fold content, and there is a lot of it, but it’s really well sort of positioned and, and decorated, is different pieces of content that buyers and sellers would actually want to see. So I think that’s really interesting, because it sets you apart. Deanna from all lots of other competitors. And I know that was really intentional for you. And before we get into your story, can you just talk a little bit about the website? Because it is so cool.

Deanna Kory 6:10
Yeah. Well, you know, part of everything I’ve done when it comes to marketing, is to provide information to people, I really believe strongly that we’re there not just to sell homes, we’re there to educate people, because education is the key to people understanding what they’re purchasing, what they’re selling. And in order to get the best possible deal both as a seller and as a buyer. So I’m always looking to educate people. And that’s really what this website is all about. It’s not just about promoting the properties, although it is as well, but it’s about providing information. So we created it not from a textbook, not from someone who we went to does hundreds of websites, but we created it independently to reflect that sort of site. So that people can come there and learn everything they need to know about buying, about selling. And even more, we do a lot of work with architectural histories and histories of neighborhoods and all sorts of things. So I encourage you to stay into go to it and explore it.

D.J. Paris 7:09
It’s a great place for broke realtors to see maybe a different way. And it’s very elegant. it the way it’s laid out is very, it’s very readable. And it’s cool how you were able to put as much content as you have, right there. When I first hit the website, I was like, Oh, I know, I don’t I never need to scroll. Not that I would scroll anyway. But I didn’t have to to get to the content, which which I think is oftentimes agents don’t think about as much. So I appreciate that. I also should mention, and not just because it’s Women’s History Month here in March, because that’s that’s not the reason to bring this up. But it is something to mention that while Deanna has has a wonderful team, and she has both men and women on her team, all of her agents are currently are women. And so she has this wonderful group of women. So we honor that, you know, specifically in this month, but we I always think that is so cool when when I see, you know, all women’s based, you know, group of agents, because it’s not that common. And I just think it is it’s really, really cool that you do that. Well, let’s talk about how, you know going back now I guess 36 years or so. We’d love to hear about you know why you got into real estate and how?

Deanna Kory 8:25
Yeah, well again, sort of honoring Women’s History Month and the story is really apropos. So my growing up my grandmother, who came over from Romania to calendaring Canada, followed in her brother’s footsteps who came to Chicago, no less your hometown. Yeah. And they were in the business of real estate. So happens. So she ended up going to Chicago and joining the firm. And within one year, she tells a story. She was the top salesperson, she walked into the room this very long day with all the salespeople, and they were honoring her and she didn’t want to have any products. She was ready to go out and sell again. She was very, very, you know, business oriented, very dedicated, very competitive. And so she was the top salesperson within a year of joining that firm. And then she eventually started her own firm. And she was responsible for originally developing part of the north side of Chicago. And then subsequently during that time, she also started to develop an all women’s golf course with Joe Nevada, if you know that name was just a golf pro. And then, of course, the depression struck and she held a lot of mortgages on buildings all across Chicago. And she fled like everybody did. I mean, the business was over and she went to Hollywood and rented movie stores homes and then eventually ended up in Miami. But for years when I was growing up, she would go back to Chicago to sign quitclaim deeds for people who were selling land and collect money. But anyway, so she was my inspiration actually for getting into real estate and cuz I knew that if she could make it in the 1920s in Chicago as a woman, as a woman as amazing, yeah, yep, she’s in all the papers. She was like Christian Science, Math or whatever, Chicago paper. And she Amelia Earhart, she was very, very big for about probably about a seven to 10 year period before the depression, and then she just got really cool, you know, she, she had her fame, and she went on and didn’t and went into oblivion relative to what she was doing back then. But I admired her so much for doing what she did. And it you know, and then she ended up in Miami and investing in real estate. And we ended up having family in Miami in real estate and all of that inspired me. So I, when I was a classical musician of all things, and I, yeah,

D.J. Paris 10:47
what instruments did you play?

Deanna Kory 10:48
The soonest? Don’t ask,

D.J. Paris 10:50
wow, you’re like the only bassoonist I’ve ever met.

Deanna Kory 10:53
Yeah, I was a musician. I went to Conservatory in Ohio. And I decided, when I was I actually studied with my idol in the Philadelphia Orchestra. And I decided that I was not going to be a professional musician. So I went to New York where I could be in the classical music business, because it’s the only place you’re sure in the classroom, he’s sure. That was there for four years making next to nothing. I think that was the lowest paid person that I knew. But I tried, because I did love music. And I just decided I need to be in business on my own. So I applied to business school, I applied to Columbia, I plan to NYU, got into both got a scholarship to NYU, and was going to go to NYU and I decided that summer, which was this June 37 years ago that I would try real estate. Wow. So I tried real estate. And I said, Wait,

D.J. Paris 11:45
so I want to I want to back up for a second. I just want to pause. So you had did I hear you correctly? Because I’m feeling like I must not have? Because did you say you had a scholarship to NYU? That you were like, no thanks. I’m gonna go into real estate.

Deanna Kory 11:58
Well, I, I was going to go I was planning on going but I thought you know what? It’s true. Let me get into real estate. And you know, let me see how I did. And within a month, I was just I was above it was like a bug because I sold my first apartment. And I really wanted to make 100,000 My first year, this is a 1985. That’s a lot of money in 1985. Oh my god. And you know, and remind you, you know, I don’t know what property is costing in Chicago, but back then the studio, you know, in a new beginner price on the studio, maybe it would cost 20 million plus $30,000. I mean, we didn’t have MLS systems, it was all 6% Commission, but still it’s like 20 or $30,000. I had a goal to make $100,000 My first year it’s a lot of sales. I ended up making 90,000 Not too bad. And I never looked back. I never ended up in business school. And here I am, you know, whatever. You know, how many years later. So, you know,

D.J. Paris 12:55
well, I’ll have to I’ll have to tell my sister because she she didn’t do NYU for undergrad. We actually both went to Miami University in Ohio. But she ended up at stern NYU business school. And she did not get a scholarship to go to business school. And thankfully, she got very lucky though, right out of college, she was working for L’Oreal at the time. And which is funny because both of our last names or Paris, we are not French and we have nothing to do with L’Oreal Paris. But that just happened to be where she worked. And L’Oreal was was kind enough to actually pay her entire way through Stern. So. So other accent would have been very ugly for her right after. But that allowed her to be able to go out and buy a place in Manhattan, which is which is obviously not an easy thing to do today. But so so you you, you may have had this goal to in 1985 to sort of sell $100,000 in net income, which is which is a difficult thing for anybody in their first year.

Deanna Kory 13:50
Yes. Yeah, no, no, I obviously was a I mean, I just have a talent for it, obviously. And maybe because of growing up around it and all of that. And I loved it. And what I ended up doing is I really love people. And I love helping people. So that I mean, I do love apartments too. But my goal really is to help people and you know, I went to Oberlin, which is an Ohio as well. Sure. And if you know anything about Oberlin, like about 5% of the Oberlin population goes into business.

D.J. Paris 14:19
Right? So it’s not really a business school. Yeah,

Deanna Kory 14:21
we are not. It’s all not for profit. I mean, yes, a lot of people become lawyers, doctors, you know, that kind of thing in some grade school. Yeah, yeah, it is. But I think it was like 10%, whatever. It was a small percentage. So I always felt very guilty for going and selling real estate because that’s like a real business. It’s like, it’s a rich person’s thing. But I decided that the only way I could live with myself doing this is to really do it to help other people and to make their process as easy as possible and to educate them. So this was the way I started my business and I just decided that I was going to be if I knew that if I thought if I have the I didn’t By having a goal, I want to make X amount of dollars, I put that out there, and then I forgot about it. I really wanted to see how I could help people make a decision, find something they love, be happy with what they bought, and have them. So when it was time to sell, so that was my goal. That’s, that’s the whole thing behind, you know how I feel that I did very well. And in my first or second year of doing this, I, one of my clients was someone who was one of the original people who started Comedy Central. Oh, wow. And she had, she was very young. And we were both very young. And I was trying to help her sell an apartment. And she was telling me about how she thought like, The Wall Street Journal used to sell subscriptions, by having people call up to get their guide to money and markets, which is an educational piece. Yeah. And she said, You know, I see that you’re doing this, I started a newsletter, also my very first year, which I’ll tell you about in a minute. But I, you know, here’s this guy to money and markets. And that’s how people are doing subscriptions. So I thought, you know, that’s what I’ve been doing already. But let me just capitalize on that. So I continue to do things to educate people. And that’s I’m big in architectural history. So it’s been about architectural histories of people’s buildings that they didn’t know about. And it was, for me great fun, because I love that kind of thing. So it’s been part of my whole Mo. And that’s why my website is also so different, because that’s just the way I operate.

D.J. Paris 16:26
We should also mention, I forgot to mention this above the fold, too, which is also a very unique place for this, but it’s such a smart place position wise on your website, on your homepage is your your newsletter, which is right there. Obviously, it’s in fact, your spring 2022 newsletters up, people can check it out. And you put this together yourself. And I just think this is part of what you just mentioned, this education, this providing value. And tell us a little bit about how important is that newsletter to your overall branding, strategy, marketing, or just keeping your clients sort of abreast of what’s going on.

Deanna Kory 17:04
I think it’s critically important for me, because my brand, and it was always this way was to be sort of someone who was like, as you said, in your intro, intellectual, you know, understanding and capable of really dealing with people on that kind of a level. So for me, that was a critical thing. And I actually started a newsletter. And when I first got into the business, now it did help that I had been in, when I was in the classical music business, I was in public relations. So I learned how to write, I learned how to promote people. And I learned that type of writing. But I decided that there was validity back in the early days in me and nobody was sending around newsletters that back then. So I was very lucky. In me, I was new, what did I know about the real estate market. But you know what I had, I had my observations. And my observations were valid. And I decided that was very important. And so I wrote a letter with dear and I have the people in the names put in. And I talked about what I was observing in the market. Because back then there weren’t, there wasn’t websites and data

D.J. Paris 18:07
where you couldn’t easily just pull data and stats, no. So people

Deanna Kory 18:10
really enjoyed seeing and hearing. And the most important thing that I did is be 100% consistent, I was extremely consistent about it. So I would do it the in in that time period, four times a year, because it was just a letter, it was simple. It wasn’t so long. And then as time went on, it got more comprehensive, more complex. And instead of taking Well, this is me, instead of taking the company newsletter, and using it where you know, they get it from everybody. It really is specifically mine. And people do recognize that which I find very interesting. They’ll they’ll call me up and they’ll say, you know, I’ve gotten your newsletter for years, it’s so well done. It’s so you know, thoughtful, or whatever they say. And they hold on to them because they’re on beautiful paper, you don’t have it, but I make sure they’re on very nice paper. They’re they’re really, in my in my mind, they’re one of my you know, prize marketing tools. But that’s not only that, and also as an educational tool. So and I do not only that generalized newsletter, but I do newsletters on specific areas in Manhattan, because I have a special specialization in those areas. So I work on those areas as well provide data and it’s my own interpretation. It’s not anybody else’s so

D.J. Paris 19:20
well that that’s what I that’s what I love about about what you’ve done. And I think so many agents today are either not confident enough to put their observations into a newsletter, it’s a heck of a lot easier to buy that information from a source that might write it all for you or might provide data that you just you know, are you know, sort of spit back out regurgitate, which is fine, and I have no no issues with that. But it’s more uncommon for me to see a content from a Realtor with an actual point of view. And that is really what most people want to see. They want to know what you think versus maybe just Here are the stats of the neighborhood. So I think that’s a really important distinction is putting your own observation. And it sounds like that was very successful for you.

Deanna Kory 20:08
Well, it has been, and frankly, I’m not sure if the company would allow everybody to do that. But I’ve been doing it for so many years, to be honest with you. And they’re very, you know, they know that I know what I’m doing. So I’m fortunate in that way, because I have their permission, I don’t even have I don’t run a I shouldn’t say I don’t run it by the company, but they see it, they’re aware of it. And you know, and I feel really very proud of it, frankly. And I think it’s a great tool. Not I mean, I actually enjoy even there’s a lot more talk about podcasting, a lot of work. These newsletters are a lot of work. And but I have a wonderful team, I have to just tell you, I’ve developed and we can talk about that if you if you’d like to develop this team. And right now I have one of the best teams I’ve ever had. I really just love everyone on my team. And they’re just fabulous. Their experience, the oldest member in terms of the years working with me on the team, someone has been with me 24 years. Wow. And I have on average the agents on my team. I just recently hired three young because I have to have, you know, young people on my team. And then their average time in the business is about two years. But my other team members, the agents, their their average time is about nine years or 10 years. So I have really experienced agents on my team. They’re all superb, I would have them handle my properties. They’re excellent. And I feel very confident in them. And I just adore them. I adore them as people and I just think they’re excellent at what they do. So anyway, it’s just it’s wonderful. And all the agents are all women, as you say. So in celebration of this particular month, but it’s great.

D.J. Paris 21:39
And I also Yeah, it is really cool. And your enthusiasm for wanting to help not just help but educate is clearly coming through even even in this conversation. You’re educating our audience on your process. And I appreciate that. And I have to ask you only because you’re a classically trained musician. Do you have a favorite composer?

Deanna Kory 22:01
Oh, my goodness, that’s a really hard thing to

D.J. Paris 22:05
do you have some favorite composers

Deanna Kory 22:08
on the south things to say that I do really love some of the Russian. You know, I love some of the Russia shows, you know, Stravinsky, and I just think that they’re perfect. I love some of that beautiful, very sort of haunting music. I’m sad to see what’s going on right now. Yeah, I mean, I you know, I, I was Asuna so the most famous bassoon concertos is Mozart Bassoon Concerto. So I obviously who doesn’t love Mozart? You know,

D.J. Paris 22:36
I I’ve yet to I’m not that I’ve been playing guitar my whole life. And I play classical guitar for a bit, which is a whole different style of playing and very, very difficult compared to like rock and roll style guitar. But um, but yeah, Mozart is in I haven’t listened to every, you know, classical composer, but Mozart to me is I’m consistently amazed. I just recently got into as a five Violin Concerto set. And I was listening to it going, this is some of the most incredible music I’d ever heard. So anyway, yeah, we everyone loves Mozart, but I would love to see on your website, you playing some bassoon? That would be

Deanna Kory 23:16
I had my instrument stolen, and I just resume all right. No, I’m not kidding. Some many years ago steals a bassoon. Don’t ask it. Anyway, recently, I joined a group of business people who were classical musicians in their former lifetimes. And actually, somebody just recently lent me their bassoon, and I just bought a read recently. So I am about to try it for the first time. And I can’t hate to tell you a few decades.

D.J. Paris 23:44
How exciting. I want to talk about staging. And I, we this is something we talked about it before on the show over the years. But I think and I have a theory and I want you to tell me if I’m if it’s an accurate theory, or if I’m wildly inaccurate, because I’m not a producing agent. I don’t go out there I sit at a desk all day. So I don’t know what you guys know. But I would assume as somebody who’s kind of more on the other side, oddly enough, even though I recruit Realtors all day long I really know so little about about the industry. But which is even more funny that I do the show but it is a lot of fun. However, I would think from somebody who still sees himself as a bit of an outsider. The idea that we’re living in an Instagram perfect world, as well as you know, with everyone having immediate access to making their faces look perfect with a tap of a thing and reducing you know, make reducing blemishes and things and we all can look young and beautiful and and we can make every thing we eat look beautiful and amazing. How important is staging today? Maybe even due to the fact that we’re so used to seeing perfect imagery online all day long. It was through an infinite scroll.

Deanna Kory 24:58
Well, I mean, I’m in for better or For worse staging is that really, I think, critical to achieving the strongest possible price. But I believe that 20 years ago when I was the first agent in the New York area to stage, so I was really I saw, I knew it was happening in California, maybe it was happening other places, but I knew it was happening in California. And I had an apartment, I’ll never forget it. It was a it was on Central Park West. And it was a small three bedroom. And the woman had her mother moved her mother in with her. So we painted it empty, that made it nice and clean, and sort of showing it and one of the bedrooms was small, and there was no dining room. So people would come in and complain. And I remember it was priced at one for 1.595. And this goes back 20 years ago, okay. And then we lowered it to 1495. We kept getting 1275 We couldn’t get higher, and she desperately wanted 1.3. So I said, you know, there’s this thing called staging, and I’ve been wanting to do it. And I think that would really help you get your 1.3. So I went out to the furniture rental company that I knew. And I said, I’m gonna try this, you know, what is it gonna cost? So for $10,000, I picked out all the furniture, I placed it, I got things from my house brought it in, and then I put it back on the market. And what do you think I got?

D.J. Paris 26:21
I am I’m excited to hear how much

Deanna Kory 26:24
1.5 from two people.

D.J. Paris 26:28
So that’s $10,000 investment essential?

Deanna Kory 26:31
Yes, yes. Well, I never looked back after that. Another thing I could do to help people achieve the highest possible price. So I started doing it, and I have a good eye for it. I still have a good eye for it. And I think that’s the key also to doing this successfully. Because I’m one of those people that some stagers don’t like to work with, because I’m very highly critical.

D.J. Paris 26:50
You know what you’re doing? Yeah,

Deanna Kory 26:51
I know what I want. At the top stager in the city, one of the top stages in the city who I work with that it’s IMG, if you know that name. They’re really wonderful. And they they’re the I’m probably one of the only people that listen to when when their corrections to be made. Because I do have a right idea of what I want to see I know exactly what I want to say I know what works, I know what doesn’t work. And when a stager doesn’t do a good job, I don’t mind to say it because I know it, you know. So I’m pretty pretty tough to work for. But if you do a good job, amazing.

D.J. Paris 27:23
Well, either ad Oh, quick question about staging, because actually have a bunch of questions. But the first one is around, are you still renting equipment? Or do you have your own product now that you store? Okay, you know, I

Deanna Kory 27:37
just don’t want to get into that business, even though I actually initially did. But it will tell you that your your question. And I think it is a good business for some agents. And it’s a great way to maybe do that. There’s some people who are very successful with that. And I think if there’s a little bit younger, maybe I would do it. But but it is a lot of work. I think so. But I will tell you asked about Instagram and you asked about, you know why it’s important? Well, when I was doing it, I was the standout apartment because nobody else was doing it. But now everybody’s doing it. And on Instagram, everybody’s perfect, right? So if you don’t have that, I mean, what can you do? You’d have to try and elevate beyond whatever it is, but you put these are sort of picture perfect images, right? That you need to compete, you have to be at least as good. So that’s part of the problem. It’s a it’s a dilemma. Because the reality is, there’s another thing about, you know, beautifully staged apartments and also beautiful photographs. Because sometimes, and I struggle with this, to be honest with you, I struggle with the fact that sometimes we do these gorgeous photographs in the apartments not as good as the photographs. And I think sometimes you have to think about that. Yes, and I sometimes don’t, I’m not, you know, sometimes it’s just these apartments are just about houses. But sometimes the rooms with the angles, it’s impossible to get a really good photo. And those are the ones that people come in, and they’re overwhelmed, because they’re so excited by it. So it’s it’s kind of one of those things, you want great photographs, but you don’t want them to good. But on the other hand, they should be picture perfect, because then you

D.J. Paris 29:07
know that that’s a really good point. It’s sort of I think about this, I’m not a single person, but if I were and when I was single in recent years, back after these, these tools became available for everyone to look young and beautiful and perfect. And then you’d meet some, you know, I’d go on a date and I meet a woman and she didn’t look as perfect as her photo because nobody does, of course, and I would go boy psychologically, I understand why people do it. But psychologically, for me, that’s a bit of a little tiny bit of a bummer. Like, Oh, of course they used to filter, okay, this is what they really look like whereas, so you’re dealing with a similar sort of thing in real estate. It’s like you want it to look beautiful and attractive, but you also don’t want somebody to go in and go, Oh, okay, this isn’t exactly what I saw in the photos. That was perfectly and you do see this. It’s so funny. We see it with I love when some of the Virtual Staging that happens. And they make the sky just a little bit too perfect if it’s an exterior shot or the lawn, if it’s, you know, if there’s grass, it’s like a little too green. And you’re like, Well, I know it doesn’t really look like that. And so I always think, boy, they just crank the the contract or the vibrancy up on these colors. And so I imagine there is an art to it a little bit of a push and pull of make it look look realistic, but also beautiful, but not too beautiful. So

Deanna Kory 30:30
we can address some of those virtual stages crazy, to be honest with you. That’s something that’s not quite right. You know?

D.J. Paris 30:38
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. And and when you’re dealing with listings, what percentage of the time do you provide staging? Is it every single listing? Is it a certain listings,

Deanna Kory 30:49
I would say about 90% of time. But not, it’s not always full staging. Sometimes it’s just a matter of tweaking, I mean, I just I had an apartment. And you know, her apartment was dated, she wasn’t going to do a whole staging. But we went in there, we brought lights, I mean, we I will do what we call sort of minimal staging. I have two staging closets. Okay, that’s my inventory. And I have a lot of my inventory out right now. And so I, you know, I’ll take things in, and I’ll make it I’ll just make it a little bit more. And now nicer, put some put some orchids in there, some beautiful decor, consider nicely done, I’ll put some color, I’ve got tons of pillows, so many pillows, I mean, I could do a pillow warehouse, and I’ve got you know, accessories and so forth, you know, beautiful vases, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, just people don’t always live that way, right? I have our work, I’ve got mirrors. So I’ll bring in things to really help. And honestly, I think it makes a difference, I don’t want to say makes the full difference. But does it help me just elevate the property. Yeah. And that’s again, something that I feel is a real wonderful service. And I do I mean, if I don’t, since I have a team, I have a lot of people doing a lot for me. But when it comes to staging, especially some of the apartments that are, you know, a certain price point, I I’m there, you know, because I’m the one that everybody knows on my team that I am the perfectionist or the one who really has the best eye for staging. Well, it’s

D.J. Paris 32:19
your brand too, so you want it to aesthetically, you know, fit a certain design style and but it is interesting that now staging has become so much more popular, because we now staged all of our photos for our entire lives, you know, you scroll through, and I’ve even seen a wrinkle on someone’s face in like 10 years now. I’m like, boy, my friends must all be just aging so gracefully. It’s but it’s so easy. And it’s but it is important because we do expect and I think now also with technology, making our gratification so much faster, we’re able to get things delivered instantly, whether it’s you know, everything from food to, you know, anything you want to purchase, you can basically buy within a day or so it’ll be at your doorstep. We’re used to jumping, you know, in cabs and Ubers and just not even having to say where we’re going, they just know because we told the app, we’ve just we don’t have to do much anymore. And I think even though the DIY community is been growing, I think that’s a certain type of the popular a certain percentage of the population and there’s another percentage that’s like, why isn’t it perfect now, and so it’s so the staging, I think is really important. And I’ve seen Yeah, I’ve seen it in our own agents, we encourage everyone to do it. But if you do have clients that resist that, you know, how do you sort of handle that you know who maybe they have an emotional attachment to particular pieces of furniture or how do you address that?

Deanna Kory 33:54
Well I have such confidence in what I do then I I’m very firm with people and if I rarely get turned down when it’s about furniture and things like that, but occasionally I do just recently I have a listing where they had had this a lot of turquoises and blues which can be good in a mid century modern kind of setting but it was a little bit off it was not right and i i They would not stage and their neighbor who have referred me and I was the third broker on it because it didn’t sell on with the blues and the color and this and that they had vacated it because they bought another place and I finally said okay, if you’re not going to do that you must paint it. And I’ll give you the white because you have no idea I know every white that’s out there. So I know what’s going to be the best white in what apartment and I take the color swatches in and I really do this every time and I make sure that it’s the best it’ll provide in this case is a light prime department. How’s that? And I wanted to make sure it had the highest light reflection. I got through light fixtures I did all sorts of things and we made a beautiful clean slate. I mean they’d be you have a clean slate. And we saw that right away. So, you know, I just, you know, we do the best we can I mean, I couldn’t stage it, but obviously, whatever I did did did the right thing. So

D.J. Paris 35:12
yeah, and I love that I would love to hear your philosophy on building a real estate business as well. I know, that’s something that you’re passionate about.

Deanna Kory 35:21
I am, I am. I mean, I started out look, the world’s a lot different than when I started. And so a lot of the things that I did, but it’s the same principles anyway, had to do with you know, Hi, my big thing was about incredible customer service, as you can tell, educating and incredible customer service because I was determined that I would stand out, I always felt that I’m kind of a perfectionist, and I’ve kind of dropped a lot of the perfectionism, to being, you know, like, 90 90% is good enough, or 95% is good enough. But I, you know, I really wanted to be treating people the way that I would want to be treated. Because you know, even if you’re buying a 500,000 in New York, which was a $500,000 apartment is not a lot of money relative to other apartments, but it’s still $500,000. So you want to be treated in a certain way, it’s a lot of money. And I never lose sight of that fact. And so one of the things we do is high level of customer service, the marketing for me, as you’ve heard already, what I do in terms of the newsletters, and of course it was doing event at the time, that COVID kind of portail did a lot of events. I used to do classical music concerts, I had Steinway calm, I did, also I did things with the landmarks, organizations, I’m very interested, as you can tell an architectural history, I did all sorts of things to you know, really distinguish myself, when I was a little behind the times, although not that far behind the times in terms of Instagram and Facebook, just because, you know, it was just so new to me. And I just wasn’t quite as caught off guard. But I think we’ve caught up we have a great following and we haven’t doing great we try. And we’ve been trying to improve it and improve it. Because we know again, we want to educate people, we want to provide this beautiful content visually. But again, I’m I’m really more into educating. But I think if you stay consistent with marketing, which is part of what I’ve done, and you stay consistent with staying in touch with people, which is the other thing, I have a whole system, I have a what we call in my in my team, a deal management system, which I might end up selling at one point to people, but it’s a wonderful way, it’s different, because it’s specifically meant for the real estate industry. And I find it really helpful and I do a weekly meeting in my team. And we go over every buyer, every seller, so we know everything that’s going on. And we go over every single lead that we have. And we are constantly on top of the people that we have that are long or short term leads. So we’re constantly doing things to think about future business and building business. And and obviously, it’s it’s proven results, you know?

D.J. Paris 38:03
Yes, clearly, I’m curious on staying in touch, I always feel that that is oftentimes an agent’s Achilles heel, especially after a sale, but but of course pre sale as well. I once asked, excuse me, I once asked a of one of the top agents here in Chicago who was on our show. And she is like, like what I say top out of 46,000 agencies like number two or three. And I asked her I said, Well, what do you think the difference is between you and she was just this very polite, sweet, soft spoken kind of kind of person. And I was trying to extract what her sort of, you know, sort of secret was of success. And she goes, You know, I’m not smarter than anyone else. But I do call every one of my clients every single week. And I said, you know, regardless of whether there’s an update or not, and I said, and she goes no that that that’s it? And of course she does a million other things too. But But I’m curious on on because you’re talking about consistency with your branding, with your marketing, but also with your communication, you know, one to one communication? How does your team do that? What are you doing? You talked about having a meeting each week, where you’re going over all of the team’s leads and kind of where everyone is in the process. But can you go a little bit deeper on that and just share, you know, specifically,

Deanna Kory 39:22
what we do we have we have a meeting and then I have each of my team members is responsible for a certain number of leads. And and what they have to do is stay in touch with them not as a crazy person because we’re already touching base with them with all our newsletters and all our information. But we go through periods and we’ve just gone through the period of beginning of seasons where we want to know if people are maybe interested in selling. So what we’ll do is we’ll I don’t like to send a very simple thing I don’t want to send Oh, how are you doing? You know the markets doing blah, blah, blah. I want to give whoever I send a note to something that’s relevant to them. Okay, again, it’s about educating. So I want to let them know, this apartment has been sold, these three apartments have sold in your neighborhood, that’s great for you, it shows that your value is is, is strong right now. And then I give a little blurb about the market. And you know, as it relates to them, because in New York, I don’t know how it isn’t Chicago, but in New York, we have all these different market segments, I’m guessing you have the same there. So it’s very specific what’s going on, and whatever the segment is, so I make a very specific paragraph about what’s going on in their market. And I totally get a great response rate. And I do it on a regular basis. And we’ve just gone through a round of them. And I’m still working through them, because I have my team members write them based on what I, you know, have just said to you, and then I edit them and make sure that they’re the right, because I actually usually know the people that are the leads, I know the sellers, or the buyers, whoever it is. And, you know, it’s it’s proven to be a really good because people know that they’re carefully specifically written, they’re not a form letter. That’s why it’s hard for me to take some of those like, you know, management systems sort of thing, cut the contact management systems, which just spit out, you know, a form letter type of thing. It’s tough, because I like this personal touch, just like the woman who calls I just don’t have time to call everybody. But I do through letters, you know, so

D.J. Paris 41:23
yeah, you know, it’s really funny. I was thinking about this the other day, I purchased a place my primary residence in it was a new development. And just for fun, so funny that I should have gone to the MLS because I am technically a real estate agent, even though I don’t use my license. So I should have gone straight to the MLS to run a comp for myself, but because I’m lazy, I went just like most people straight to Zillow. And I’m like, I wonder what Zillow thinks my home after a year of purchasing not that I’m thinking of moving I am not. But I was like, you know, everyone likes to know what their home is worth. And this really speaks to what what you were talking about. So I went on to Zillow, and I typed in my address. And now I don’t know how accurate the Zestimate was. But it was a very nice number to see. Because I just happened to sort of accidentally timing the market. Well, just because of you know, the pandemic was so strange, but just kind of got lucky that way. And so I went, Oh, my God, look at what my place is worth. Now, I don’t know if that act numbers accurate. But I started thinking, you know, I’ve lived here a year i Obviously I think realtors who even know about this development might think oh, there’s nobody moved in as moving out anytime soon. And they’re you know, they’re all new. And they just spent a bunch of money on these on these places. But I have, there’s 46,000 realtors in the Chicagoland area, I have not received one postcard, and maybe they know I’m in the business, but I doubt it. Not one postcard, not hey, we noticed your home is actually appreciated since you purchased it. And these are not, you know, starter condos. These are these are more, you know, expensive type condos. And so I I’m just thinking, gosh, there’s so much opportunity for agents to do exactly what you’re talking about is to send that I mean, I had to look it up myself. And and then I ran a real confident with okay, this estimate was wasn’t totally accurate. But it was still like a nice thing to know, because everyone likes to know what their places worth. And and it’s such a simple thing that you do, but it isn’t. It isn’t easy to do. It’s simple, but it is incredibly important to those homeowners.

Deanna Kory 43:27
Yeah, it is. I mean, it’s again, educating and again, imparting information. It’s all in the same vein of everything that I do. And so, and I you know, and I like it, I just I like it, I feel like I add value. And I think by feeling. I mean I think other people feel like I do as well, otherwise I wouldn’t get the business. And I do I really try and help people out. It’s it’s just been my philosophy, because of the way I see it. I’m very blessed. I really feel like I’ve had a great run a great life. And, you know, the My business has been, you know, really excellent. So you know, if I don’t sell something, I don’t sell something, but I’d rather help that person. And that’s how I’ve always felt. That’s how I always started the business because I felt that people would understand that and feel that in their hearts. That’s how I felt. And I felt that way anyway. But you know, sort of sometimes tempted because maybe times are a little tough and you want to you know, that’s just not a good way to because people feel the anxiety or they feel whatever it is. And I sometimes say to my agents, I have one agent who came to me recently she was losing a deal. And I said, You okay, you got to calm down. I said you got to calm down because you can’t want this more than them. You have to want what’s best for them. And if they don’t want it, you have to accept it. You just have to accept it. You have to let it go and accept it. And I want you to get and I had coached her to be very accepting. I told her what to say. I said you have to put yourself in this frame of mind. Well wouldn’t you know it the first the deal fell apart and then it came back together. So you Gotta let these things go. I mean, it’s really about the other person. It’s not about you, you know, it’s about the other person.

D.J. Paris 45:07
I have two final questions for you, because and I know, I know just how busy Well, I don’t know how busy you are, I suspect, I know how busy I suspect you are managing a major team as one of the top teams in all of Manhattan. But I do have two important questions that I think our audience one’s a fun one and one’s a more serious one, we’ll start with a more serious one, which is, you’ve been in this business a long time, 36 years, you’ve had a tremendous amount of success, I would love to hear your take on what’s going on in the market today. Just to sort of set the simple stage and New York is certainly Manhattan is its its own thing, of course, as well as San Francisco and a few other our markets kind of similarly. But I know here in Chicago, which is a different market, but probably maybe more common to other major cities. You know, we’re dealing with a lot of shortages, in inventory, obviously, low and low interest rate environment, so tons of people are buying with more purchasing power than they had before. I’m sure that helps out in New York as well, when everything is so incredibly expensive to begin with. But what do you think the state of the market is? And where do you start to see it going?

Deanna Kory 46:13
Right? Well, you know, we were hit the worst, I think of all markets during the pandemic, because we were the epicenter for the pandemic when it happened. So it was a real, it was just a struggle, anyway, and we came out of it. And I like to say the bottom of the market was sometime between August and October of 2020. But then it started going up from there. So and we had a record year last year in terms of volume in terms of sales volume, what didn’t, it did not translate into the prices did come back to pre pandemic prices, but we’re still not at the peak, as we were in the 2000s, sort of 14 to 16 times are really 1415 downgrade. I will say that there was some exceptions to that. The market in general has been very, very strong in the new development condo world, which is they’re having record years, and their prices are up relative to other properties. And so that’s sort of where they are. Now, what’s happened this year as we’re going into 2022 is that we have, we’re not having a lot of inventory come on the market. So this is the first time we’re having that. So we are seeing a little bit I’m seeing a little bit of upward pressure on resales, a new development, you know, you can’t be can’t keep a decent new development on the market right now. But in terms of resales, which are resale condos, resale coops, those we’re having, you know, we have a shortage in certain categories like that one that I told you, we sold right away the classic 60s, there are certain categories where they’re sitting on the market. So it’s a little uneven, depending on location, size, price point. But what is pretty uniform is that we don’t have a lot of inventory coming on the market like we normally do at this time of year. So the lack of inventory may result in price increases. Now we are in a time period where we’re looking at very volatile stock market, for obvious reasons because of Russia and Ukraine. And that is a very, incredibly sad thing that’s going on right now. And we don’t know exactly how, you know, obviously whatever happens there is going to have an impact on our market to some degree. But people still are we do have a shortage of inventory now relative to before. And so we’re are starting to rescind people just make decisions when new things come on the market. And so it’s still a robust market. It’s still very strong. It’s like sort of like last year, which was very strong. But I think there’s a little cloud because of the Russia Ukraine thing and the volatility of the markets.

D.J. Paris 48:42
Yeah, I think that’s anytime, you know, it makes it makes sense. I think I think that’s, that’s right. I know, pre pen or bright when the pandemic started, we’re friendly with some brokerage owners in Manhattan. And they were really concerned about, you know, people fleeing the city and whether they’d come back and what the office buildings would be pop how populated they would be when we returned to normal, and we’re starting to get there which is, which is exciting. But it’s good to know that Manhattan is still doing doing well. And, and I imagine too, but it is funny too, because then you end up realtors, most of our listeners, I think as well as just realtors in the country oftentimes had their best year last year, which is sort of a weird, sort of benefit to this awful sort of tragedy that we’ve all gone through. But it’s also dripping prices up and there’s been you know, just some inventory shortages. But I imagine for you a great opportunity to reach out to your your owners and say, hey, you know if you’re looking to you know, now we’ve a lot of us have learned and maybe real estate agents don’t get to benefit as much from this. But a lot of just traditional businesses now are like hey work where If you want to do things so you know, I met people traveling, I traveled a bit and last several years, when it was safe to do so all over various countries. And I was shocked at how many people who, you know, just said, you know, I subletted my place, or I’m renting out my condo, and I’m traveling right now. And I’m not totally sure where I want to end up. So this idea that people who own now maybe some of those shackles have that immediate geographic location where they thought like, I thought I was going to have to be in Chicago my whole life, and I love the city. However, now I know, I could probably since I’m not, you know, realtors, I can have a bit of a bigger mountain to climb if they want to sort of work remotely. I think that’s harder. But, but a lot of business people now can just kind of go everywhere. So are you seeing a lot of a lot of opportunities there to say to your your people who have purchased in the past? Hey, what are your plans? What what are you thinking of doing?

Deanna Kory 50:59
You mean in terms of selling, and just in terms

D.J. Paris 51:01
of, of yeah, now, now people can say, you know, they’re able to say, Well, gosh, maybe I want to move to Nashville, or, or Austin, or Charleston, or some of these, these places where now you know, people can move, I imagine that probably has opened up conversations between you and your clients a

Deanna Kory 51:17
lot that we have a little bit of migration to Florida and some of the Southern. And so that is happening. But you know, there’s those of us who live in Manhattan and love Manhattan, ya know, and this is a large portion of the population. There’s no place like Manhattan. So one of the things that is happening in this country, a little bit of this sort of some people moving out and doing remote work elsewhere, is the fact that people want a piece of Manhattan. So we’re getting a lot of people are getting a piano tear, a second home or third home or fourth time, whatever it is. And that is driving a lot of a certain portion of the market, which is nice. So people really want to have a piece, they want to have a home here. And we’re seeing more of that. I don’t I don’t know if there any percentages, but but again, anecdotally and unlike any other agent, right? We’re getting our fair share of people like that. And more than I would say most but so I think that percentage is up, actually, which is nice.

D.J. Paris 52:18
Well, I’ve always thought which I probably will never be able to afford to do myself, Although who knows. But I if I were to get a second place, I would it would be in Manhattan. Again, that’s a huge, huge accomplishment if I were able to be able to do that. But But yeah, my mom growing up my mom used to say just just as kind of say something cute. Although I don’t certainly don’t mean to offend anyone else because I do not have any ego about where I live and about any I’ve been to almost every state this country and I really like all of them it to some degree. But my mom used to say there’s really three cities growing up, she’d go, it’s New York, number one, Chicago’s number two, San Francisco’s number three. She’s like, that’s it. And I always thought that was kind of funny. But but but there is something very magical about about New York and people who live there, you know, want to, you know, yeah, maybe they end up retiring to Florida. Like my sister now, who now lives in Florida. She’s not retired. They’re raising their son there. And it makes more sense for them to do that. But they are itching to get back. So I’m excited. I’m excited to hear that that New York is still going so strong.

Deanna Kory 53:31
And it’s not just Manhattan, by the way. Brooklyn has Ferro remarkably well, better

D.J. Paris 53:37
than it’s been. So I remember I remember Brooklyn when When? When it wasn’t. It was It wasn’t so much fun to go to Brooklyn. And now it’s just, it’s just like, Whoa, this is the coolest part.

Deanna Kory 53:53
The Brooklyn agents last year they hit out of the park. It was crazy. So Manhattanites, which I am one. My daughter she had her choice might live in Brooklyn, but she’s now living in the village. But anyway, so you know, Manhattan in Manhattan heights are sort of Manhattan ice. But Brooklyn has been really like one of the hottest locations in the New York City area. So it continues to be so

D.J. Paris 54:18
yeah, I It’s fun, Brooklyn. So I just I haven’t since my sister moved to Florida about five, five years ago, we used to spend all of our holidays in Manhattan because my sister lived there and why not? And now we’re down in Florida, which of course, weather wise is nice, but but we don’t get to go to Manhattan as much and I’m going to

Deanna Kory 54:43
show you some of my favorite restaurants and things.

D.J. Paris 54:46
I would love that or we could just go to John’s and yes, it’s a pizza. Yeah, well, I do have one one and I never, you know, it’s funny just to pull back the curtain on how we do these set up these interviews with with people like Deanna, we I have somebody on my team, her name is Donna and she does a pre interview and sends questions. And Deanna wrote a really, really, we asked these questions, and then I never ended up asking the asking them during the interview. And I always feel bad because our guests write out these really long, wonderful answers. But I’m going to ask you this one because I thought this was such a great answer. We usually ask people, what’s your like, funniest real estate experience? And yours was real comedy of errors here. It’s like, it’s almost if you were to write it into a script, it would, you’d get notes back from the from the producers going, this isn’t realistic, this isn’t going to happen. So we can’t put this it’s not no one’s going to assume that this could ever happen. But it did happen. And so they say what reality is stranger than fiction. But do you mind sharing that sort of brownstone inspection experience?

Deanna Kory 55:51
So you know, in New York City, we have these row houses, we call them brownstones townhouses, there are many different names that are used from them. This was a brownstone, which is made on a brownstone. And it’s a house, but and originally was a single family house, but they get divided up into apartments. And this was a while ago, that I had sold two floors, the lower two floors of this house. And so then we’re bringing an inspector in and this is the comedy of errors that happened. So we walk into the house with the inspector. And, you know, with inspections in New York don’t have that will happen before the contract is signed, I don’t know it’s different than outside of the city. But we had just done the thing, but had been, but I hadn’t been in the house. And in a little bit like a week or two, because it takes a little time for some of the due diligence to take place. We go into the house with the inspector, and I open the door and the alarm goes off. So I know this was the first thing that happened,

D.J. Paris 56:48
you did not know there was an alarm or how to turn it off.

Deanna Kory 56:52
I didn’t have the code for whatever reason, they hadn’t set the alarm before. And I tried calling them and they didn’t answer their phone. And I was going crazy, because I think the police are gonna come a fire department’s gonna come I don’t know what’s gonna happen. And I finally out of desperation, I go walking up the stairs to the apartment upstairs. And I knock on the door. And this man opens this opens the door in the bathroom. And I’m thinking Oh, my God, it was middle of the day, right? And I thought, Oh, dear, I’m so sorry. But I set off the alarm and I can’t reach them. And do you happen to have the code? You said no, no, it was just surgery. And I’m thinking oh my god, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to disturb you, and I’m sorry about the alarm. And I went running downstairs. And I’m meanwhile trying to figure out this alarm and, and they’re going around and they’re doing their inspection. And then they go ahead and they open the flue, and they’re testing the fireplace, and he puts the fireplace on and lo and behold, you know, you open the flue, and you would he was doing smoke comes built, here’s the alarm going off, smoke comes billowing, and there’s a Birdman and I’m like, Oh my gosh, the people call them they finally give me the alarm code, I turn it off. And I’m like, I can’t even tell them about this smoke, and I don’t know what to say. And I didn’t know what to do. And I’m like, and finally we get the fire, calm down, the windows open, everything’s everything’s, you know, complete and done. And then finally, I’m like, get through this inspection, you know, 2500 square feet of space with all sorts of things, you know, outdoor area back of the bar of the lawn inspection. So finally, we’re finally finished, we close everything up. We go out and now in these buildings, you know, there’s the front door to the apartment and we go out the front door, the apartment and then we have to go and pull the front door forward. That’s how they work the impulse. You take the knob and you pull it in and I go to take the knob and pull it in and the doorknob falls off and get out of this house. And I can’t make this up. This was just the killer. Okay, what do we do

D.J. Paris 59:04
that is incredible. Maybe Maybe all the bad luck just happened at once. And then he didn’t have hopefully any more bad luck that year. But what a great story and I think our audience can certainly relate to every every agent and has had you know those types of experiences.

Deanna Kory 59:22
This is crazy. I ended up I ended up sending flowers to the guy with the surgery. I felt so bad. I ended up selling three of three of the four apartments in that building ultimately, so it didn’t turn out so badly.

D.J. Paris 59:35
Oh, wow. Amazing. Well, Deanna, I am so appreciate you coming on our show and sharing your your truth about how you built your business suggestions for agents of what they can do with respect to branding and marketing. Talking about your process and your team’s process. It’s been incredibly valuable. I want everyone who is listening to please check out Deanna has a team’s website which is the Deanna quarry team, part of the Corcoran Group, visit Deanna on her website, which is Deanna quarry.com. And again, it’s really a cool and different way to present your hers or Deanna in particular in her team present themselves with putting really great content front and center versus, you know, below the fold, and you have to scroll to find it. And also check out her newsletter as well. But her website is Deanna quarry.com. And I’ll spell that d a nnakory.com. And I was telling Deanna ahead of time that I grew up with a lot of Corys, who are Lebanese, so I keep wanting to miss spell, Cory, because I’m used to being spelled differently, but D A nnakory.com is the category team website. Also, there’s a link to that in our show notes. And Deanna, it has been a absolute pleasure. Oh, by the way, all of her social media is also accessed right from her website. But also check her out on Instagram, which is the which is Deanna quarry team will also have a link to that in our show notes, and she has great social media. So please check her out there. And if you happen to be a buyer or a seller and investor or renter, and you are looking in the New York City area, and you would like to work with one of the top teams there Deana what some what’s the best way somebody may could reach out to you,

Deanna Kory 1:01:25
obviously, email or text and we’ll get right back to you. We have great. As I said, You agents who are very experienced, on average, they’re like seven or 10 years in the business depending. So I have fabulous people that I would have worked with me if I was a newcomer, or an experienced purchaser. So anytime would be happy to help.

D.J. Paris 1:01:48
Yeah, so just send an email to info at Deanna quarry.com, or visit their website, Deanna quarry.com, you can get in touch with them. They’re all their informations right front and center. It’s super easy, it’s easy to find. And she’s everywhere. So it’s really very, very, very present a realtor in New York, on behalf of our audience. Deanna, thank you so much for your time today. This was a real pleasure. For us. It was a real, I definitely want to see the the first bassoon sort of practice with your new read and your borrowed instrument. By the way, not a lot of the students floating around out there. So I love that it’s not an easy instrument to find. So I can appreciate appreciate you getting back into that which I think is really, really fun. And I I suspect your your your contacts and your your clients will love to see you participating in that if you decide to keep going with it. Because of course, that’s your part of your background. But also on behalf of Deanna and myself, we want to thank our listeners and our viewers for continuing to support our show for making it all the way to the end of the episode. We ask everyone before they sign off to do just two quick things. Well, three things visit Deanna cory.com. Check out what her and her team are all about. Also give you some great ideas for your own business. But also to other things is please tell a friend about this episode. Think of one other agent that could benefit from hearing this wonderful conversation and insight from Deanna 36 years in the business. Billions of dollars of real estate sold, send them a link to this, this episode you can or just send them to our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done can be streamed right there. Or if they’re a podcast person, just pull up a podcast app, have them search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button. And I know this is a long exit. So I apologize. But one last thing, please leave us a review whatever app you might be listening to the show on whether it’s Apple podcasts or Google Play or Stitcher, Spotify, whatever, Pandora, Amazon, wherever you’re listening to this, let us know what you think of the show. Tell us give us a star review. Hopefully more than one star but give us whatever you think is right because it helps us continue to improve and we want to we make the show for you. So let us know what we can do to get better. And that just helps us reach more people as well. So Deana, on behalf of everyone, thank you so much for coming on our show. And we are so excited to continue to watch your team, you know take over Manhattan.

Deanna Kory 1:04:14
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Greg Sexton the Chief Operating Officer of Century 21 Real Estate LLC describes how he got involved in real estate. Greg talks about the the role of the brokerage in the success of the agent. Next, Greg discusses the importance of training and coaching in the real estate industry and he talks about his personal perspective for real estate in 2022. Greg and D.J. discuss Millennial and Gen-Z groups and how to prepare for their presence in the market. Last, Greg discusses leads and how to nurture them.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

This episode was brought to you by Real Geeks.

D.J. Paris 0:00
How would you like to hear from the CEO of one of the largest real estate companies in the world? They have 150,000 agents. How would you like to hear what they think is the keys to success? I know I do. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and now on to our show

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Barris. And in just I’m your guide and host by the way through the show, I screwed up my own intro but just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with the CEO of century 21 Greg Sexton, he has 150,000 agents and he’s going to tell you what he believes are the key to agent success. I’m really excited before we get to to Greg just a couple of quick reminders please tell a friend think of one other realtor that you know that needs to hear what Greg is about to tell you and believe me it’s all gold, send them a link to our website or send just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real, hit the subscribe button but our website where they can stream every episode is keeping it real pod.com Again, keeping it real pod.com And also please leave us a review. If you’re listening on a podcast app like iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify wherever please let us know what you think of the show. We read all those reviews and it helps us improve But enough about me let’s get on to Greg Sexton.

Okay, today on the show we have Greg Sexton from Century 21. He’s the Chief Operating Officer. Let me actually let me tell me more about Greg so Greg was actually appointed the chief operating officer of century 21, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Realogy corporation. So many of you listening are probably part of the realty family which includes century 21, Better Homes and Gardens, Coldwell Banker, Corcoran, a lot of a lot of major major real estate companies that that are in your market. But Greg was, has been the CEO since September of 2020. And he serves as the chief operating officer sorry, he also served as the Chief Operating Officer of century 21 Real Estate from 2013 to 2017, before taking on his role of the chief of business services for real G. Now Upon returning to his position as Chief Operating Officer, Sexton leads the company’s domestic and international operations, which includes the iconic brands industry leading platform of tech tools and apps learning and data driven products that si 21 professionals leverage to better serve their customers and clients. Plus, he oversees the organization’s real estate field servicing staff to ensure that it’s committed to improving the quality and efficiencies and building long term relationships with a century 21 systems broker network. Now he has also spent a decade over a decade rather with the real G Corporation. He served in a number of roles including senior vice president broker services of for century 21 real estate where he oversaw the consulting, sales and service efforts of the brand’s broker services teams, and as also the Senior Vice President of Operations for Coldwell Banker, residential real estate and Coldwell Banker Commercial. So he’s he is a titan of this industry. We are beyond honored to have him on here. And this is the first time we’ve really spoken to somebody at your level. We traditionally Greg speak to producing brokers, but who better to talk about producing agents than of course you who oversees a lot of them. But welcome to the show, Greg, we appreciate your time.

Greg Sexton 4:54
Thank you, Jay. Thank you so much for having me and the opportunity to spend some time with your audience.

D.J. Paris 4:59
We are We are a very, very grateful to to have you on the show and I’ve always I have a I myself, I’m not a practicing agent, although I do have a license. I’m on the recruiting side I work for an independent brokerage here a family owned company here in Chicago. But of course century 21, Coldwell Banker, all of Better Homes and Gardens, those are all those all have a presence, pretty prominent presence here in the Chicagoland area, including the suburbs. And in fact, our owner, Nick, before he took over the company that I work at, which was his family’s company. He actually started himself at Coldwell Banker for the first four years of his career, so he could learn the business and he will tell everybody, boy, what a great experience that was, of course, century 21 being under that same umbrella. But I would love to hear about your journey into real estate. Obviously, you you’ve been on the corporate side for quite some time. But uh, how’d you get involved in real estate?

Greg Sexton 5:57
Yeah, it was interesting. So there’s the real estate side of what we do and then the franchising side and actually came in through the franchising window or door, if you will, I had actually been in the franchising industry, in a different industry other than real estate. And that was my entree in and where I came into it was on the franchise, sales side of it. And I will tell you, DJ, I’m a I’m a proponent of for those that have gone into leadership within real estate, especially within the franchise side of it. That franchise sales background is really what helped me understand what happens at the street level, if you will, because a lot of us from corporate folks, a lot of times we’re inside, we’re developing tools and systems and thinking that, wow, this is going to be the greatest thing out there. When really, if you haven’t spent time understanding what happens at the brokerage, what happens for the agents out there, I think sometimes we don’t make those great decisions. And so being in franchise sales, I spent all my time, the first 11 years with the company out there in the trenches, with our real estate brokerage companies, talking to agents, you know, working to get them to understand the value that a franchise like a central 21 provides, and all the different tools in the systems, not to mention the branding. So that was really important for my start and that so I spent the first 11 years on that franchise, sales side and real estate, then I transitioned into the operation side, which for me, made it a really great transition because I felt like I really understood what I wanted to accomplish in the corporate side, working with our field, who was out there working with our brokerages, excuse me out there working with our agents, and that was really kind of the compelling thing for me is that try to take that knowledge never forget what is important for the agent, and how they drive their business, how they grow their business. And so I’ve always tried to keep that focus and remember where I learned it from?

D.J. Paris 7:55
Well, I think it’s, I think that’s an impressive sort of experience skill set. Because you you have that sort of boots on the ground understanding as well as what it takes from a corporate level to support those boots on the ground and support the franchisees as well as the agents, and then just to create infrastructure within the company to continue to support everyone, which is a daunting task. And you know, realtors require a tremendous amount of help and as do the brokerages and the brokers who run them. I know we we are an independent brokerage. So we have about 800 agents in our company and boy it’s it’s a struggle and and so I can appreciate the resources that that companies like century 21 Coldwell Of course, provide, especially for newer agents. And not not just newer agents, of course, but I’ve always thought the resource, you know, I get this question a lot. When someone’s past their broker, while in Illinois, we’re all called brokers. So we’ll just say agents for the for the because not every state has the same terminology. But when agents, people, people just pass their exam, and then they’re interviewing, the question that I get the most is, you know, how are you guys my firm? Or the firm I work at? How are you guys different from a century 21? How’s your training, compared to Coldwell bankers? And I said, Well, I would hope they’d have better training than we do. And they do. Because of course they do because they have a lot more resources at their disposal. And to me, that’s a wonderful place as it’s not just a place to enter the business because I think, obviously, there’s a lot of top producers who have been practicing for dozens and dozens of years who stay at Century 21 and other companies like yours. But I’ve always thought especially for newer agents who really want to learn, you know, having the most amount of resources at your disposal is a really, really important sort of thing to be able to dip into and actually I have a question for you because I I’ve always wondered wondered this myself because agents, people who pass their their licensing exam, we have a lot of them that listen to the show, because really our show was was primarily designed not just to help newer agents, but to help agents who are looking to get to that those sort of higher levels of production, figure out what they need to do. And so we interview we’ve interviewed a lot of century 21 and Coldwell and betterhomes garden and Corcoran people on our show, who are over already made it. But I have a question for our audience that maybe you can help answer because agents are always especially newer ones are struggling with this one, which is what is the role of the brokerage in the success of the agent? Or how do you see you’re, you know, the resources that the corporate mothership will say, provides, you know, down to down to the individual agent? And of course, I would I know what, what my answer would be as a much smaller company. But I’m curious to hear you know, what you think the role of the brokerage is in 2022. And by the way, I know I’m talking a lot, I do want to also say one thing, I forgot a century 21 just celebrated last year, their 50th anniversary. And so congratulations to them, they also recently named and I can’t, I’m forgetting her name, but but somebody a real G, I believe, just named COO, who’s, who is a woman, and if it is national, Women’s History Month was starting today. So congratulations there. But congratulations on the 50 years, century 21. They also just went through a rebranding, which is very cool. But anyway, back to my question. Sorry for that. What is the role of the brokerage these days,

Greg Sexton 11:42
let me speak to that, because I, this really goes to a word that you’ve used a couple of times here about that you’re with an independent company. And I think that, and I’m gonna come from the passionate side of the brand and branding. And what we provide our broker owners because we want to make sure that they can then provide it to their agents is a full suite of value proposition from technology to training. And let me just dive in, if I could, for a little bit on that. Because I think it’s very important that I go back to the role that I had in franchise sales, where we’re I’m talking to independent real estate companies and agents that maybe with companies that are giving them that full value proposition of the things that they need out there. And it’s that knowledge that really caused me to really want to dive into what makes the brokerage successful. Well, what it makes it makes the brokerage successful is that their agents are successful out there, and their agents needs are being met. And we as the franchisor, in central 21, our job is to make sure that we provide those resources for our broker owners so they can be passed down. And I will tell you, one of the things that that I often say to companies that come to Century 21, they want to be part of the Sichuan family, we take them on a journey of what our full value proposition is, because I believe that we have a great value proposition, but it has to be right for that company, for that companies, agents for that broker to deliver value to their agents. And so you’ll hear me often say to these companies, I don’t know if this journey ends with you being part of century 21. Family, I don’t know if that’s right for either one of us. But this I do know, brand with someone, because I believe brand is that important. And it is when you mentioned about being independent, I believe brand is important, not just because of the brand. But the things that are wrapped around that a large company like a century 21 can provide for our brokers who then provide for their agents are very, very expensive. Let’s start with technology. Technology is changing so rapidly in this industry every day. And for an independent or even for an agent with an independent company to keep up with that technology, much less purchasing it from the start. But the moment you purchase it next thing you know, you got to update it, you gotta manage it don’t.

D.J. Paris 14:05
I’m in charge of our technology at our firm. And I will tell you, it is an incredible expense. And even beyond being an incredible expense. You’re absolutely right, the upkeep of making sure the providers that we use or that we develop are sufficient is is almost a full time job. So I absolutely understand. And I hope our audience is if you are at a firm that isn’t offering the tool set that you think you need, sir, you could go out and purchase certain tools on your own. Or you could explore firms that have already done a lot of that legwork like a century 21 and say, Hey, we will they get courted by the very best tech providers on the planet or they developed their own technology. And they have their own staff to do that. And it is in a very, very impressive tool set that you guys offer.

Greg Sexton 14:56
Yeah, one of the things that we just announced is not too long ago, a DJ We’re getting ready to roll out in the process of now it’s called Moxie works. It’s actually a product, it’s been around for a long time in the desert. But now we partner with moxie works. And that’s just kind of showing what the power of a large brand, like a century 21 can do for their brokers for their agents, is make sure that they have a suite of tools, it’s one thing to have a good piece of technology, it’s another thing to have a good suite of tools, because the agents out there demanding it as they should today, and so are in clients, those people that are out there looking to buy a home to sell their home. And I believe it’s our job to make that journey as easy as possible. And a lot of that’s coming through technology, not to mention the other aspect of what we deliver. And what I think that agents should also demand is a really good training platform. Here’s what’s interesting to you, Dan, I know you work with a lot of agents and brokers, you probably know this better than I do. It is amazing to me that in the real estate industry, those agents that take training, take coaching on a monthly basis, it’s been your $1,000 a month or whatever, these are, typically your new agents, right? These are your most experienced, most professional, most successful agents. And to me, that shows the power of a brand that has good training that agents would realize that if I’m going to be at the top of my game today, and tomorrow, I gotta keep on educating, I gotta, I gotta gain as much knowledge as I can. So I can pass that knowledge down to help my clients. And I just think that’s kind of a little bit of an interesting twist for this industry, how agents really want to absorb good coaching and good training, that’s a differentiator between us and say, other industries.

D.J. Paris 16:43
I think you’re right. And it is interesting, the coaching part of this industry is such a big and the training part is so important, because as we know, and our listeners, and viewers know that being a realtor is a ton of work because you’re not just wearing the sales guy hat, you know, you go to, and I shouldn’t say sales guy, salesperson, hat, of course, because you’re not just working at a company where they put you they give you some leads, you’re calling because you’re selling maybe a SaaS product or some sort of, you know, some product that you only have to sell as, as a realtor, you have to wear a number of hats. And whether you work at an independent firm, or you work at a franchise firm, wherever you work, you are not a lot of those hats. And it certainly helps to have resources of a big company behind you and the branding that goes with that. Because, you know, and I’ve been in this industry for for, I think 12 years now, and I work in an independent firm. So if somebody were to ask me the importance of a brand, because I work at a firm that has a much smaller footprint on the brand side, I say, oh, it’s not that important. But it is important. And it’s certainly when you’re starting out, and you haven’t built your reputation. And you haven’t established yourself as as an expert, necessarily, you know, yet in the in the community, or in real estate, having a brand behind you that is affiliated with competence. Excellence is. Jameson, by the way is also one of the real GE brands, which I forgot to mention, they are also obviously a huge presence everywhere, but certainly here in Chicago. These are these are important, they do move the needle for the consumer thinking, Well, hey, you know, I’m going to I just sat through three listing appointments, one was a century 21 person one was, you know, maybe somebody at my firm, and one was, you know, somebody from another firm that it isn’t as well known? Well, you know, it factors in and the branding factors in because, you know, we associate brands like century 21, with some level of excellence, because you’ve earned that, and you have excellent training. And a lot of firms like ours, you know, that’s, that’s our biggest struggle is training because we don’t have those resources. So I absolutely appreciate that.

Greg Sexton 19:07
You know, one of the things I was just going to add there quickly, BJ to is, let’s face it, this pandemic changed everything to and I believe, and we’re seeing a flight of independent real estate companies that have actually come to us since the pandemic, we sort of saw this after the recession call it back and oh eight through 11, that after people survived that, they also realized, I don’t want to go through this again, from this pandemic that we’re navigating ourselves through now and hopefully out very shortly. That didn’t change landscapes too. And people’s thought process, especially when it comes to training. As a big company as a big organization like ces 21. we pivoted quickly to our training to make sure that we were giving agents what they needed for the moment. None of us exactly knew what that moment was, but we knew that we were at home we couldn’t be in front of our clients. Those who wanted to buy homes sell their home And we couldn’t be face to face. So what do we do, and we were able to provide a lot of training quickly on virtual open houses, virtual closings, all of those things that caused us to be able to continue to do our business. In fact, frankly, as you, as you know, the industry continued to help people in that process of living that American dream of homeownership. Nothing was missed there. And I think it’s because of the ability to pivot there. But I think that as we go forward, there’s gonna be a lot of things that we would never would have thought about three years ago in our industry, or frankly, any industry that are going to live on that we never thought that was going to be part of who we are as Americans going forward when it comes to the home. And I think that that’s one of the things that I love about our industry is, we’ve been able to still help so many people live out that dream, when their dream just took a complete change. And what I mean by that is, think about all the people that are working from home now, that probably will the rest of their lives, and never would have thought about that three years ago, that creates such an opportunity for real estate agents, real estate broker owners, because we can help people to still solve that problem, what they perceive problem, it’s now an opportunity, finding a new home that meets the needs of their families, homeschooling, none of us thought that there would be this rush to homeschooling, but they were forced to, I think parts of that live on forever. So do those people have the right situation in their home? Or can we in the real estate industry, help them figure out what their needs are and fulfill those. So that’s what I love about our industry is yes, this pandemic has been horrible, horrible, for so many. And we want to, we want to always remember that. But what I love about what we get to do in our industry, is make things better.

D.J. Paris 21:54
Yeah. And I think too, that the pandemic, what it’s forced companies to do, especially larger corporations, like real GE and the various brands is it’ll the technology has been really adopted. So that we are able to communicate more effectively and efficiently with people with with companies now. And so now, you know, jumping on a Zoom meeting, is is not only not unusual, it’s every single person basically does it from time to time, whether you’re in real estate, or you’re not working at all, and you’re taking you know, at home like raising children, you’re still probably jumping on video conferencing. So I suspect, and I’m curious to get your take is it’s allowed you guys from the corporate side, to more directly communicate directly all the way down to the agent level. Because that communication that technology now exists, it probably makes it easier for you guys to go, here’s all the stuff, we have Mr. or Mrs agent who might be holed up at home because of the pandemic or various, you know, restrictions outside, we can still directly train you educate you and provide you those tools that years ago would have been more difficult to sort of trickle down all the way to the agent.

Greg Sexton 23:10
Yeah, without a doubt. In fact, I think of how even myself and pivoted I, all of my meetings now that I normally have had them in person, I can have them through zoom just as easily. I still believe we’re in the people business. And I can’t wait till we get to connect on a regular basis. And I think we’re starting to see that. But here’s a prime example. We have our big what we call our 121 convention, that’s where we have 1000s of central 21 agents from around the world attend that event and have for years, typically, typically in Las Vegas. But for the past few years, we haven’t been able to get there face to face, and enjoy that networking in that training and all the good things that go from that one on one person. However, we did it virtually we had our virtual 121, where we had 1000s of people coming on a zoom screen. And if I had said that we were going to do that three years ago to our staff, they would have looked at me like I had three heads, which might be the case that they do anyways. But that’s a totally, totally different story. But that’s how much in a short period of time. We have moved. And I think it’s just phenomenal that as a country, we were able to move like that. And I do think it’s the power of large brands that have been able to lead in that and make sure that the agents out there are still able to deliver what is needed in our industry.

D.J. Paris 24:32
That’s very well said. I appreciate your answer there. I have a couple of challenging or I would consider to be difficult questions. Although I think I think you’ll you’ll be able to answer them just fine. So no pressure, of course, but I did want to ask some questions. My first one is probably the most. We pulled our audience saying hey, we’re bringing on Greg, do you have some questions and and the number one question we got in This is a difficult question because I know that you are not an economist. And I also know that, you know, you that is not your particular specialty, although you are an Operations Officer, but I was curious, if you had a general thought about real estate in 2022, understanding rates have started to go up on the lending side, inventory is still a challenge in a lot of communities, especially I know, in Chicago, it is probably most major markets, it’s a problem. But still, rates are still pretty low. So we have this sort of interesting confluence of, of lots of buyers with still a lot of purchasing power that maybe they didn’t have when rates were higher than they are even now. They’re still great. But of course, a shortage of an inventory. So increased competition, increased pricing, curious on what you guys see on your side, as somebody who has to really look towards the future more so than than us little independent guys who just kind of focus on the day to day, what do you what do you think might happen this year with respect to real estate? Sure. And

Greg Sexton 26:04
I’m gonna give you my personal perspective on this. And I think the industry looks very, very bright. I look at what happened during the pandemic, and how, wow, we still sold so many homes when you take a look at what we do on a year to year basis before the pandemic? Well, I think the future looks very, very bright. And for a couple of reasons that I’ll throw out there. Because I think that this also speaks to how your listeners, your audience, that are agents can really think about their business going forward and their business plan for growing their business. The reasons why I feel really, really good about 2022. And frankly, beyond is, first of all, yes, we’re going to hear that interest rates are going up going up. But let’s just say that they’re going to be in that 3.6, that 3.7 range, which we keep on hearing kind of bantered around there. That is still amazing, amazing, amazing interest rates. And that should be the story that us in the industry are out there yelling from the rooftops about this great opportunity to get into homeownership first time homebuyers, what a great opportunity. 3.6. I know, I’ll give away my situation here. But my wife and I bought our first home 32 years ago, and I would have done anything like that. So I think it’s still so I think it’s our job as an industry to make sure that we get that great message out there. There’s another when you talk about what is the landscape look like going forward. I believe that because real estate is global, we have billions of dollars that come out of the other parts of the world that want to buy properties in the United States. And let’s face it, that’s been super challenging the last two years, I believe there’s going to be a bunch of pent up demand internationally on properties as we navigate ourselves out of this pandemic. I hope that your audience, your agents that you all work with, really understand that they should add this group of agents that are going to be coming over these investors add these group of clients that really want properties. Because you can think about those states that traditionally the Florida’s the California has, that really take an influx of properties that they want the international investors want to purchase. That’s a great opportunity. The other one reason why I think that there’s a new segment, if you will, that’s really coming in. That’s millennials, we are now seeing millennials that may have been either straddled with, with college debt and things in the past kind of stay on the sidelines. They also really wanted to live in those big major cities, they were going to rent for a while, because that panned the pandemic changed all of that. And so now

D.J. Paris 28:45
they’re all moving to Nashville where you are, there you go. That’s

Greg Sexton 28:47
exactly right. But I will tell you, millennials now are storming into the real estate, they’re realizing that real estate is a great investment. And so that’s a change. And there’s still a many years to go of that that demographic being part of that home buying experience that we could tap into just another great opportunity. Also the Hispanic, you know, all surveys show that that’s going to be really over the next 20 years, about 70% of the homeowners that are out there looking for homes, it again to your audience, if that’s not a group that there really has traditionally been part of their prospect list. I would encourage that. I think that’s another way to expand who maybe that prospect list didn’t include millennials, Hispanics, first time homebuyers. I think that we have a great opportunity to go out and give the dream of homeownership to more than we have in the past. And I think it’s gonna continue to drive what we’re gonna see in 2022 from an overall housing experience and even beyond that,

D.J. Paris 29:52
I think that those are really great, great insights and I was wanted to tag on to the millennial and I’m sort of Gen Z market, which often is ignored by realtors, because we know that that that age group, or people in that group, those groups tend to buy a little bit later than in previous generations. However, there is a an amazing transfer of wealth that is happening. For those people, a lot of them are receiving, you know, as their parents get older, they’re gonna start receiving transfers of wealth, whether in the form of gifting or as, as a parent passes away, maybe that money then funnels down to those millennials and Gen Z ers, and you’re going to see a lot of people with a huge influx of capital that they have to now do something with. And and I absolutely agree that these are people that are going to be buying a lot of property in the upcoming years. And so for all of our listeners, and viewers definitely consider how to start educating that the your, your sphere of influence who have or talking to your clients, who are of those of that advanced age, and saying, Hey, let’s talk about what is your wealth, sort of transfer strategy. And, you know, I want to be part of that. And I want to know where you’re headed so that I can help maybe for your heirs, I can help provide real estate advice.

Greg Sexton 31:23
Yeah, DJ, you’re spot on with that. And let me let me run with it just a little bit further, for your audience. Because I think that this, we’ve hit on something that’s really an opportunity for those agents out there that are that have the great fortune of listening to your podcast. I’m a firm believer in a, you can make a customer for life through really delivering unbelievable service, and then following up and keeping in touch with your clients. Because yes, your client may not buy a house next year. But all the studies show three to five years, they’re probably moving on. So I think about this millennial group that you and I have been speaking about here, what an opportunity, if this is the first time they are jumping into the home ownership, to show them the experience that they can have by dealing with you that great agent, that great central 21 agent if I if I can’t, because if you can do that, you’re going to tap into their rest of their family, their friends, and be there for them when that transition comes that you just spoke about. So if again, if they’re not part of the your prospect list, I would encourage everybody to not kind of just shy away from millennials and say, well, they’re probably just going to rent, because everything has changed.

D.J. Paris 32:34
Everything has changed. Now people can live wherever. And they can work from wherever. And I was I was shocked. I traveled overseas last last year, and got to spend some time in a few different countries. And I was able to work and I met many people who were they have a place in the United States, and they were not traveling. And, you know, they were trying to figure out what what am I going to do? Where am I going to where’s my home base going to be? And I think that’s a great opportunity, especially if you work for a company like a century 21 Because now you have access to their network of agents from all over the world, really. And all the Realogy agents I’m sure as well, which is even gosh, I got I got on the news. How many do you do? Is there a total count for the number of agents under the Realogy? Umbrella? It’s got to be it’s got to be over? 100,000? I’m guessing.

Greg Sexton 33:29
Well, we have 155,000 agents at Century 21.

D.J. Paris 33:33
So there we go. Well, hundreds of 1000s of agents.

Greg Sexton 33:37
Yeah, there is a lot of and you know, which I will tell you, it speaks to back to that global thing that I mentioned, I were in 85 countries. And that goes back to that branding is so important. But here’s why branding, and you sort of alluded to it a little while ago and some comments you make. But I think it’s super important when we think about those independent real estate companies, which there’s some fine ones out there. But when it comes to somebody who is in Germany, or France, or somebody that’s thinking about buying property, they’re probably not looking for that independent name. They don’t even know who it is, what they knew the century 21 is, and I think it is agents out there really think about the future of where this industry is going and how we are global, it’s really important to have a brand behind you that you’re immediately recognized. And then because of the great job that your agents do out there serving their clients, you combine that with a great brand. There’s your customer for life.

D.J. Paris 34:35
You know, it’s really funny, I was thinking about this psychologically there there is a sense of sort of well being when you’re in a foreign place, and you see something familiar, I was in I was in Nicaragua of all places. And this is about seven or eight years ago, and I walked by an empty storefront and I sort of had an idea for a business just a fleeting thought. You know, it wasn’t something I was going to actively pursue and I saw it was it was available for rent and it said CBRE, which is a very prominent commercial firm, global commercial firm. Or maybe it was Jones Lang LaSalle. I think it was CBRE. Anyway, I said, Oh, I know what CBRE is, and then all of a sudden I went, Oh, I trust whoever the name is, which of course the person I didn’t know what whoever was representing that property. And and, you know, of course, there’s a variety of competency and agents all over the place. And there’s good agents and not so good agents everywhere. But because I recognize that name. So you know, it’s funny as an independent person. I’m like, My inclination always like brands not that important. Of course, I’m a marketing guy. And I know the power of branding, and century 21, of course, is is a very, and Jamison and Coldwell Banker, and all the real GE Better Homes and Gardens. Corcoran, these are names that most people know, right, and they’re names that have earned a spot of a earned a spot in in a sort of Americana sort of culture because of what they provide. And I’ve always just been nice, I love when when an agent meets with me, and they’re meeting with people at Century 21 or Coldwell, or wherever, and they go, Well, what do you think of those companies? And I’m like, those companies are awesome. And that’s my only answer, because I go, I love those companies, we have maybe a different pricing model than they would but aside from that, yeah, awesome, really, really great. And their pricing model is perfect for them. And and I encourage agents to explore independent companies as well as franchise companies, because the value proposition is different. That, you know, what you guys are offering is really leaps and bounds. But I did want to ask you one more tough question. And I apologize for this question. Because I have an answer for this. And I know you have to go shortly. But let’s quickly talk about leads for a moment only because it is for a new agent who doesn’t maybe know is as much as an experienced agent, of course, about leads. Oftentimes they will, as they’re interviewing brokerages, and I know it because I get this question too. Somebody will say, Well, how do you provide leads, and I say, oh, and I love talking about it, because I say we really don’t provide leads in our company. But and I understand that you can’t speak for all the century 21 franchisees, but we talked about the difference between leads and training, and I think they’re one in the same in the sense of training is going to get you leads, leads isn’t necessarily going to get to training. But can we talk about sort of the role of leads only because it just gets asked by everybody, at some point in their career?

Greg Sexton 37:43
Yeah, lead leads are very, very important. But I also think that that goes back to what a lot of our conversation has been about brands and branding, because that does, absolutely drive leads. But I think for my personal opinion about leads is we spend a lot of time on how many leads you’re going to drive from how many leads, you’re going to get me Yeah, I like to reverse the question and say, how many leads are you going to convert? Because if we did a great job of incubating, and then actually closing the leads that we have, it would be phenomenal the amount of business we will be doing. And so what I tried to talk about you nailed it. I love what you said there about the correlation between training and leads. Because we spend our time and energy Yes, we do drive leads, but the time and energy is spent on training so that agents know how to a source even their own leads, and do a better job of that. But more importantly, once you get that lead, what do you do with it? Because not everybody and not every lead is going to want to buy a house tomorrow. And as agents, sometimes we don’t pay attention to that, that that consumer who might want to buy that house in a month from now, heaven forbid, a year from now, or maybe even five years from now. But what if we started really putting an incubation strategy, a drip campaign strategy down behind all that leads, one that start those leads from happening month after month, once we generate all of that focus on the actual closing of those leads and leading them to that, to that closing? To me, that’s where we can really control the leads, because a lot of people will just say to your point, give me leads how many leads you’re gonna give me how many? I don’t think that that’s really the focus. I think we’re focusing in the wrong place.

D.J. Paris 39:31
Yeah, I think so too. And I could not agree more with you about that. And I we used to have, actually there we believe they’re coming coming back with Zillow would come on our show monthly and talk about leads because that’s their business and they they they will talk they will talk exclusively about the incubation period and how critical it is. And the lead itself. Is is not it’s not really where I think the juice is. I think it to to your point. I think it’s about the incubation it’s How to follow up. And in order to automate that, as you get busier, you need to have tools and technology to assist. You talked about drip campaigns, whether it’s print, email, text, whatever medium, you’re going to be actively reminding your sphere of influence and your your contact list about, hey, oh, by the way, I’m the guy or the or the woman, I’m the person that wants to work with you, when you’re ready. You need to have some tool sets behind you and companies like century 21. Just have it.

Greg Sexton 40:30
You know, in one of these I know, we’ve got to run here. But quickly, just to pique my interest on when when agents are looking for the company that’s going to be best for them to grow their business to grow their career. Sometimes they don’t even look at that technology, like what what what CRM does this company make available that can really be the database for all of my prospects? And then and then does it help me do those drip campaigns? Keep up with my, my customer base, follow up with my customer base? Give me those notices when I need to follow up? And that seems kind of elementary. But how important that is that for growing, not just your next closing, but growing your career. I just think that’s an important point.

D.J. Paris 41:15
Well, I think that’s something that that the rheology brands have done an exceptionally good job of. And of course, that’s evidenced by how successful those brands are, and how they continue to be major. I mean, the biggest major players, really in the real estate brokerage space. And so hats off to Century 21, congratulations on 50 years, or 51 years now, of a successful and impressive company. Real G is just just an amazing powerhouse in Century 21. Being being one of one of their brands, is of course, also beyond impressive. And so I encourage everyone who’s listening this year 2022, if if you you know, if you do an annual audit of or you’re doing an audit this year of your brokerage, you know, are they providing me the tools I need? Am I getting the resources, the support, and I think support and training are and tools are the three pillars of what a brokerage can provide. I really encourage everybody, even our own agents at our firm, although we hope you stick around our firm, but we really encourage all of our listeners to check out real G check out century 21. In particular, Greg, Greg’s a great guy. And they the company is outstanding. And there’s just a lot that there is offered there. So really we encourage everyone to if you’re in that process of trying to figure out, is there a better fit? Or maybe I just got my license and I’m not sure where I want to go. Give century 21 a chance. We we’ve we’ve seen what they’ve done here in the Chicagoland market. Agents are exceptional here, of course, our audiences all over the world, really. But check find your local century 21 office and speak to them. And Greg, if anyone out there has questions about maybe what makes century 21 different from other firms. We didn’t really get into competition, because, you know, obviously, we just don’t have a limited amount of time. But if somebody does want to chat with somebody from Century 21, about what they offer, whether it’s as a franchise, ie somebody maybe to open an office, or maybe wants to join an office that’s already existing, what’s the best way they should reach out to you?

Greg Sexton 43:23
Absolutely. I have a email address that I’d like to give. It’s Peter dot Mosca at Century 20 one.net. And he is the aggregator of all the great emails that we receive and questions and comments. And He will direct those that to me, and if somebody has a direct question for me, DJ, I encourage them to go through Peter and I will respond personally, to engage in that conversation. And to your point. We are very proud of the SR 21 brand. And we welcome anybody that wants to take a look at the value proposition we’re offering. But most importantly, I love the fact that we’re able to do these podcasts like you who are out there serving our agents across lots of brands, and delivering that dream of homeownership. So thanks for all you’re doing.

D.J. Paris 44:05
Greg, thank you very much. And we will have a link to Peter who is works with Greg, we will have a link to Peters email address in the show notes of this episode. So don’t worry if you missed it. We will have it there. You could just click on it and talk to talk to someone from Century 21 about what they offer. Greg, we are so thankful to have you on the show, Greg’s got to run to his next meeting. He’s an important guy. So he’s got important stuff to do. But he took time out of his day to share with our audience and we’re really grateful you are the first of all we’ve been doing this five years you are the first CEO to actually have a big major brand to come on our show and even offer to come on our show. So we honor you for that. We thank you for that. On behalf of our audience we say thanks. On behalf of Greg and myself. We thank the audience for sticking around all the way to the end. And we ask everybody to just do two quick things. Number one, tell a friend think of one other realtor that could benefit from I’m hearing this great conversation. Oh, by the way, if you know anyone who works at one of the real GE brands, send them this to say, hey, here’s what I just heard of somebody from leadership talking and send them a link to our episode, you can always send them right over our website, which is keeping it real pod.com. And then also, please leave us a review whatever podcast app you might be listening on. Let us know what you think of the show. Give us a review. It’s how we continue to improve. So Greg, thank you so much. And the next time I’m in Nashville, I, you and I can go to the Ryman and ghosts or the grand old Opry and we can go see a show because I would absolutely love to do that.

Greg Sexton 45:32
Let’s do it. It was my honor to spend time with you today. All right. Thank

D.J. Paris 45:35
you, Greg. And we’ll see everyone on the next episode. Take care everybody