Kurt Refsnider is a professional bikepack racer who holds records for the Arizona Trail 750 and Grand Loop. He’s also won multiple bikepacking races including the Tour Divide,
 and Colorado Trail Race. In this conversation, he and Payson talk about how he got into cycling in his teens, why he chose to abandon cyclocross and crits for ultras, and the seemingly risky decision to quit his day job as a geology professor and pursue bikepacking full time. They talk about some of his sketchiest moments on the bike, including his recent victory at the Iditarod Trail Invitational 350 when temperatures fell below -50ºF, and his five attempts at the Colorado Trail. They also talk about the physical toll of this kind of racing, such as permanent nerve damage, tendonitis, and the long term effects of sleep deprivation. They discuss the ways in which bikepacking distinguishes itself from other cycling disciplines in its relaxed approach to the usual conventions of racing and rider hierarchies, and how his organization Bikepacking Roots is working to support the rapidly growing community and promote conservation awareness. And in light of Payson’s recent foray into the bikepacking world, they talk about the central paradox of such a brutal sport—that it can be both soul crushing and addictive.

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