We’re thrilled to have Ethan Kross accept our invitation to join us for a second time, & to discuss his highly anticipated new book, Shift: Managing Your Emotions-So They Don’t Manage You. (Publishes February 2025).

If you’re a regular listener to our show, you’ll recall Ethan’s previous appearance when we discussed his bestselling book, Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It. Amazon named it one of its best books of 2021.

Ethan Kross is a renowned psychologist and professor at the University of Michigan, whose research focuses on the conscious mind and strategies for controlling thoughts and emotions. In Chatter, he provided invaluable guidance on transforming our inner critic into an inner coach. His new book takes this further by delving deep into the realm of emotions, offering new frameworks and practical tools for understanding and managing them effectively.

In this episode, we explore:

Ethan’s insights are particularly relevant to our community’s mission of leading with heart and empathy. By mastering our own emotions, we can become better leaders, create more inclusive environments, and drive positive change.

While many of our previous guests have been kind and thoughtful – and brilliant, as you’ll hear, Ethan’s greatly embodies all three of these traits.

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The Financial Times just named Columbia University professor Michael Morriss’ new book, Tribal: How The Cultural Instincts That Divide Us Can Help Bring Us Together, one of the “Best Business Books of the Year” (2024).

When we hear the word “tribalism,” it often carries a negative connotation. It gets blamed for everything from political polarization to workplace discrimination. We commonly believe tribalism is a societal divider & therefore a harmful influence on society.

But, as we discuss in this episode, Morris redefines tribalism not as a flaw but as a crucial part of human nature that can be harnessed for positive change. He believes our tribal instincts are humanity’s secret weapon.

In his book, he writes that humans are unique in forming tribes, & that we are fueled by three psychological instincts:

Morris says these instincts enable us to collaborate, share knowledge & build on past achievements. Teams and organizations are shaped by these instincts – they subtly influence our thoughts & actions – & when tribal “leaders” recognize & leverage these instincts, they’re able to enhance the tribe’s performance, bridge divided & drive cultural change.

A central theme of Morris’ book is belonging. He explains how our need to belong (a theme we routinely & purposely explore on this podcast) motivates our identities & behaviors. And he provides insights into how we can foster inclusivity & community. It’s when leaders embrace their employee’s tribal nature that they can cultivate environments where people feel valued & connected.

As you’ll hear, Morris’s perspective offers a hopeful view, suggesting that by understanding our tribal instincts, we can turn a potential source of division into a powerful force for unity and progress. By fostering a sense of belonging, leaders can unlock the secrets of our psychology and effectively manage our misunderstood superpower.

Michael Morris is truly brilliant and you’ll be massively impressed by how he connects wide-ranging ideas in real time.

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We live in a world where early achievements are celebrated, but what if some of your greatest successes were to come later in life?

On this truly provocative episode, we sit down with the brilliant Henry Oliver, author of “Second Act: What Late Bloomers Can Tell You About Reinventing Your Life.” Our conversation is packed with uncommon insights that will challenge your perspectives on career success, personal growth — & surprisingly, networking!

In our fast-paced society, we often feel pressured to reach the top quickly, making us overlook the value of continuous growth & evolution. Henry’s book, “Second Act,” shifts this narrative, celebrating those who achieved remarkable success in the second half of their lives. Henry argues that as we live longer, healthier & more productive lives, the potential to become a late bloomer is within all of us.

In this episode, we delve into the mindset of late bloomers. Henry emphasizes the importance of preparing for the unknown, the unexpected, & the unstated. This isn’t just about having a plan, but about being open to where our journey might lead over the next 10, 20, or even 30 years. He introduces the concept of an “Odyssean education” — the value of intentionally placing ourselves in new contexts & environments in order to broaden our understanding & develop unique skills, rather than sticking to what we already know.

Henry’s book has not gone unnoticed. It has received a glowing review from the Wall Street Journal, which highlighted key insights that resonate deeply with readers.

What motivates someone to study late bloomers? For Henry, it’s about uncovering the lessons we can all learn from these extraordinary individuals. He shares the driving forces behind his research, the inspiration from famous late bloomers, & what he hopes readers will gain from his work.

We discuss the life stories of several world-famous late bloomers & how their preparedness for luck played a significant role in their success. Steve Jobs, the man who made Apple a global phenomenon – in his second go-round as CEO – is just one example of how late bloomers can seize opportunities in ways that early achievers might not.

With a rich background & years of meticulous research, Henry offers exceptional insights that are bound to inspire you. This episode is a must-listen for anyone considering a new direction in their career, or simply wanting to understand the power & potential of their blooming later in life.

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Mitch Warner is the Managing Partner of the Arbinger Institute, an organization renowned for its groundbreaking work in leadership & organizational transformation. The Arbinger Institute has just released the fourth edition of its classic book, “Leadership and Self-Deception: The Secret to Transforming Relationships and Unleashing Results.”

First published in 2000, “Leadership & Self-Deception” has become one of the top five leadership books of all time.  Over the years, this influential book has sold over 3 million copies worldwide.

The book delves into how self-deception clouds our vision, leading us to blame others rather than acknowledging our own faults & contributions to problems. It offers profound insights into how we can overcome these persistent lies that plague our relationships and hinder organizational results.

In the summer of 2024, Arbinger produced a significantly revised & updated fourth edition of this enduring classic. This new edition includes updated stories, a broader cast of characters & practical guides to help readers apply the concepts to modern workplace challenges. Through an engaging narrative, the book reveals how we blind ourselves to our true motivations & unwittingly sabotage our efforts to achieve success & rebuild broken relationships.

Join us as we explore the timeless principles of “Leadership and Self-Deception” and discover how they can transform your personal and professional life.

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In this episode, we delve into the pervasive issue of burnout & dissatisfaction in modern work cultures & explore how rethinking workplace operations can enhance employee well-being. Our guest, Brigid Schulte, author of the bestseller “Over Work: Transforming the Daily Grind in the Quest for a Better Life,” provides uncommonly researched perspectives on this topic.

Brigid critiques the extreme work expectations set by figures like Elon Musk, who advocates for grueling work hours & dismisses remote work as “morally wrong.” And, we’re all familiar with companies like Dell & Amazon who’ve recently decided to eliminate hybrid work schedules, pushing employees back to the office full-time.

A former journalist with The Washington Post & a New York Times bestselling author, Brigid argues these approaches are counterproductive, & highlights the historical shift from work that supported well-being to today’s relentless demands. Her research suggests innovative solutions such as the four-day workweek & flexible work hours, showcasing CEOs who foster humane working conditions.

Her book emphasizes that our work patterns need a significant overhaul, asserting that we are only limited by our imagination & the narratives we create about work. With endorsements from thought leaders like Adam Grant, who praises her meticulous research, Brigid offers a compelling vision for a future where work can be both fulfilling and joyful.

Join us as Brigid challenges the status quo & presents practical strategies for transforming our work lives.

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We have the distinct honor of hosting a true visionary in human resources and organizational culture, Laszlo Bock. His name is synonymous with innovation, empathy, and transformative leadership. His journey is a testament to leading with both the mind and the heart, a philosophy that has revolutionized the workplaces he has touched.

Laszlo earned a BA from Pomona College and an MBA from the Yale School of Management. He honed his skills at General Electric and McKinsey before his tenure at Google as the Senior Vice President of People Operations, which catapulted him into the global spotlight.

At Google, he instituted a workplace culture that astonished everyone. Extravagant perks like free shuttle buses with Wi-Fi, free food, and slides between floors were just the beginning. These investments contributed to Google’s success, which saw record stock performance in its first 20 years. Under Laszlo’s leadership, Google was named the Best Company to Work for over 30 times globally and received more than 100 awards as a top employer. His innovative HR approaches emphasized data-driven decision-making, transparency, and employee well-being.

In 2010, at age 38, he was named Human Resources Executive of the Year by HR Resources Magazine. In 2015, he published his New York Times bestseller, “Work Rules! Insights From Inside Google That Will Transform How You Live And Lead.” Two years later, Laszlo left Google and co-founded Humu, a company that combines technology and human-centric leadership to deliver “nudges” to workplace managers.

Humu describes nudges as short, science-backed suggestions—bite-sized actions to support teams and improve work. For the curious, this concept was developed by University of Chicago scholars Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein.

Having recently sold Humu, Laszlo has just created a Transformative Chief Human Resources Leadership Program at the Haas Business School at UC Berkeley. His program aims to equip the next generation of HR leaders with the skills and knowledge needed to navigate modern workplaces, further cementing his legacy as a pioneer in the field.

Laszlo Bock’s career is a masterclass in leading with both the mind and the heart. His ability to blend analytical rigor with genuine care for people has set a new standard for leadership today. As we dive into our conversation, we will explore the principles that have guided his journey, the lessons he has learned, and his vision for the future of work.

Not to be missed.

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The idea of balancing the rational aspects of leadership with the intelligence of the heart and the wisdom of the soul is suddenly emerging as a legitimate best practice in organizations.

At last, were moving away from traditional thinking — & knee-jerk assumptions — that caring about employees & giving them more power & agency, is a very bad way to drive performance.

Kim & Erin Clark are the co-authors of the new bestseller, “Leading Through: Activating The Soul, Heart & Mind Of Leadership.” And while one could conjecture that the authors of a book with a title like this are spiritualists or people who don’t understand management, Kim happens to be the former Dean of the Harvard Business School — & Erin is a managing director of human capital at Deloitte Consulting!

They have chops. They have massive credibility. Which makes it rather hard to refute what they both have to say.

For as long as any of us can remember, workplace leadership has always been anchored on rationality, efficiency & control. Workers were treated as being easily replaceable, & managers were routinely taught to focus on productivity — not on employee engagement or well-being.

As evidenced by Kim & Erin’s book, we’re at the onset of an era when traditional leadership philosophy gets tossed aside, and when a new, more informed and enlightened methodology becomes embraced. Their work is a testament to the power of integrating the heart, soul and mind into how we lead human beings in our workplaces.

The profound insights they both share in this conversation are certain to inspire & challenge you to rethink what it means to lead in today’s world.

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One of the most common questions on the minds of workplace managers today is, “How can I most successfully manage the new generation of people entering the workforce?” This is a crucial question, as not only are the dynamics of the workplace rapidly changing – the generation of workers aged 18 to 25 really does have unique needs needing our support.

Dr. David Yeager, a renowned developmental psychologist and the author of the groundbreaking bestseller, “10 To 25: The Science of Motivating Young People” fundamentally breaks away from our traditional beliefs on how to motivate young people.

In his book, he draws on cutting-edge research which shows that around age ten, puberty spurs the brain to crave socially rewarding experiences, such as pride, admiration, and respect – and to become highly averse to social pain, such as humiliation or shame. And because this hyper-sensitivity to status and respect continues all the way into the mid-twenties, managers can leverage these insights to create a work environment that not only meets the needs of their young employees but also harnesses their full potential.

Dr. Yeager introduces what’s called a “mentor mindset – a leadership style that’s finely attuned to the unique needs of young people for status and respect.

His practices include validating young people’s perspectives rather than dismissing them, asking them questions instead of telling them what to do, being transparent about our beliefs and goals rather than assuming they will accurately guess our thoughts, and holding them accountable to high standards instead of coddling them.

To be clear, this isn’t done for the purpose of making young people feel good. It’s about tapping into the basic neurobiological systems that drive their motivation and behavior – and which influences them to perform at very high levels.

One of the biggest misconceptions about mentoring is that it takes up too much time. Dr. Yeager dispels this myth by showing that those who use the mentor mindset actually end up with more time. Through back-and-forth conversations, young people feel empowered, and managers can transfer more responsibility to them. This not only frees up the manager’s time but also fosters a sense of ownership and accountability among young employees.

It’s easy to be jaded about having to support yet another new generation’s unique needs – but if our goal is to have a workplace where young people aren’t just clocking in and out, but are genuinely engaged, enthusiastic, and ready to contribute – we’re rather wise to match those needs.

It also just so happens that mastering these skills will make you a better manager to employees of all generations.

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In the post-COVID era we now live in, warnings about our lack of social connection – largely the result of habits we developed during the pandemic, and the new normal of working remotely – have become far more frequent.

But what’s the real harm in having fewer in-person interactions with other people – especially with work colleagues? Many of us think we’re doing just fine spending time with partners, children and close friends. Is this a false alarm?

In a groundbreaking study, science writer David Robson explored the importance of social connection, and has just written the bestseller, “The Laws of Connection: The Scientific Secrets of Building a Strong Social Network.” And, Robson concluded that social connection is as crucial for our health and happiness as having a balanced diet and regular exercise. It not only reduces the risk of stroke, heart disease, and Alzheimer’s but also enhances creativity and adds years to our lifespan.

A previous podcast guest, London Business School’s Herminia Ibarra, stressed that because we human beings are “lazy and narcissistic,” we’re far less likely to further develop our social network today unless we literally run into people – experiences which sadly occur far less often today.

So, in his book, Robson explores evidence-based strategies for enhancing our social connections (he’s landed on 13 different principles many discussed in our conversation), and strongly emphasizes that the most informed workplace leaders are already investing much time and effort cultivating connection for people on their team – and not just because doing so will elevate their individual well-being, but explicitly because doing so will elevate the team’s overall performance.

Please don’t miss this conversation.  David’s book has been spotlighted by the Wall Street Journal and was just named a “Next Big Idea Must Read Pick” by Adam Grant, Malcolm Gladwell, Susan Cain, and Daniel Pink.

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Research shows that people consistently overestimate their ability to make accurate inferences about what other people are thinking & feeling in any given moment. In actuality, our success in “reading” other people proves to be no better than a coin flip!

But because we’re all so solidly convinced that we’re uniquely skilled at deducing what’s going on inside of people’s minds and hearts, we often go on to make wrong assumptions that end up getting us into trouble – assessments that easily could be avoided were we to take just one important step:

Ask people what they are thinking & feeling.  Get confirmation from them directly.

Jeff Wetzler is an expert in learning & leadership & invites us to unlock hidden insights by mastering the art of asking. His book, “Ask: Tap Into The Hidden Wisdom Of People Around You For Unexpected Breakthroughs In Leadership & Life” provides a practical guide to tap into the the experience, knowledge & wisdom of people around us. Harvard Business School’s Amy Edmondson wrote the book’s Foreword, & rightfully gave it very high praise.

In this episode, we discuss all of Wetzler’s Five Key Steps:

In a rapidly changing world, where AI is now replacing various skills, our ability to learn from & connect with our fellow human beings remains crucial. “Ask” equips us with an everyday superpower – one that enhances not only our personal lives but also our teams, organizations & society at large.

“Asking” great questions has become an essential leadership skill.  Listen in as Jeff shares his awesome expertise & guidance on how you can become a master yourself.  We suspect you’ll also note how remarkably thoughtful he is when answering all the questions he’s “asked!”

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