Applying neuroscience and psychology to education and formation, pioneering researcher Dr. Mary Helen Immordino-Yang draws connections between emotions, relationships, brains, stories, meaning, and purpose to shed light on how we learn, grow, and thrive.

Her research on the brain shows how we’re woven together in an intricate and glorious network of life, and when we synthesize the neurological, the psychological, the physical, and the social, we’re able to come to a deeper and more impactful understanding of human development and flourishing.

From the intricacies of adolescent brain development to the emotional and spiritual scaffolding of a meaningful life, she explains how transcendent thinking, story, and emotional engagement fuel identity formation and long-term flourishing. Drawing from cutting-edge research and humanistic insight, she explores how young people co-create their worlds and how adults can support them in becoming adaptive, wise, and agentic.

In this conversation with Mary Helen Immordino-Yang, we discuss:

• The value of integrating neuroscience with educational, emotional, and moral development
• The strange and glorious case of the adolescent brain—how we mature, learn how to think, feel, and exercise our agency, and strive to become wise
• The emotional and relational nature of education and moral development—expressed in nurturing conversation between caring adults and youth
• The importance of agency, intentionality, and transcendent thinking in human thriving
• Neural plasticity and the capacity to change our brains throughout our lifespan
• And, the big picture of thriving, that brings together our mental life, neurobiology, and other physical processes—with relationships, community, and society at large.

Episode Highlights

"Thriving is really about living like you mean it."

"We co-construct one another’s lived experiences by the virtue of being there together."

"You learn how to have an instinct—it’s not something you’re just born with."

"Transcendent thinking literally grows the adolescent brain."

"Meaning-making is an abstraction, a transcendent story we construct to bring coherence to our lives."

Show Notes

• Thriving as dynamic, purposeful engagement
• Emotional experiences shaping brain development
• Co-construction of identity in social relationships
• Adolescence as a time of neurodevelopmental remodeling
• How transcendent thinking fosters brain growth over time
• Adolescents’ drive for deeper moral and ethical narratives
• Meaning-making as a tool for personal and societal transformation
• Linking personal experience with historical and social narratives
• Default mode network and its role in reflection and creativity
• From instinct to insight—how the brain learns to feel
• The relationship between emotional health and physical well-being
• Gut-brain connection, serotonin, and embodied cognition
• Transcendence as a cognitive-emotional developmental milestone
• Influence of media, anxiety, and political division on adolescent minds
• Brain-based evidence of narrative engagement growing identity
• Learning to align present feelings with long-term purpose
• Brain science dismantling the myth of "subjective = unimportant"
• Agency, presence, and intentionality in thriving
• Integration of neuroscience with humanistic and applied methods
• Role of narrative in therapy, art, education, and spirituality
• How adolescents learn to feel, not just what to think
• Culturally-rooted belief systems shaping neural responses
• The importance of reflection, introspection, and deep conversation
• Adolescents’ innate capacity for moral concern and big-picture thinking
• Learning through story: case studies in adolescent empathy
• Reclaiming agency from external cultural and tech influences
• Identity as a lifelong, evolving narrative—not a fixed outcome
• Growth as intentional reflection, not cognitive acceleration
• Spiritual wellness as iterative construction of meaning and values
• Parenting and mentoring for deep reflective growth
• Adaptive wisdom: balancing immediacy with long-term vision
• Signs of flourishing: self-liking, relationship quality, agency
• Importance of diverse experiences and safe, supportive relationships
• Adults thriving through neuroplasticity and meaning-making
• The lifelong role of story and belief in shaping purpose
• Cognitive engagement and values-based direction over passive success
• Emotional safety and time as prerequisites for transcendence
• Listening, asking why, and welcoming the unknown as virtues of thriving
• Pam King’s Key Takeaways
• Brain science isn’t better or worse than other perspectives on human life, but it offers incredible insight for how we grow and thrive.
• Stories and narratives are the essential threads that hold our lives together; how you think and the story you’re telling yourself matters for your thriving.
• Education isn’t just a cognitive process. Our emotions and our bodies and our sense of connection and safety in relationships play a central role in learning.
• Spiritual health connects how our transcendent thinking informs our identity and how we live in reciprocity with the world beyond ourselves
• Thriving involves an agile agency that helps us live with skill and intentionality—so “live like you mean it.”

About Mary Helen Immordino-Yang

Mary Helen Immordino-Yang is the Fahmy and Donna Attallah Professor of Humanistic Psychology at the University of Southern California. And she’s the founding director of the USC Center for Affective Neuroscience, Development, Learning and Education. Candle is just a lovely image for Mary Helen’s work that brings so much light to the world.

She’s also a member of the National Academy of Sciences and has received several national awards for her ground breaking research and its implications for education

With a focus on educational psychology and the role of emotions in brain development and growth, she’s an expert on the neuroscience of learning and creativity. And her approach offers insight on how our brains shape human culture, morality, and relationships.

She works with adolescents and their teachers (particularly in low socio-economic environments) to understand how we build meaning together—looking at abstract, systems-level, and ethical implications of learning complex information, navigating social situations, and narrating our identities.

Her research underscores the active role youth play in their own brain and psychosocial development through the narratives they construct, and capacities teachers cultivate to support student belonging and deep learning.

To learn more about Mary Helen and her work, check out candle.usc.edu.

About the Thrive Center

• Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
• Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
• Follow us on X @thrivecenter
• Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter

About Dr. Pam King

Dr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.  Follow her @drpamking.

About With & For

• Host: Pam King
• Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
• Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
• Social Media Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
• Consulting Producer: Evan Rosa

Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.