What if the biggest changes in your life aren’t sudden at all—but have been building quietly for years?

Watch the full conversation on YouTube

In this episode, Russell Moore sits down with pastor and author Mark Batterson (National Community Church, Washington, D.C.; The Circle Maker, Gradually, Then Suddenly) to talk about how transformation, calling, and even faith itself often arrive–as Hemingway once put it–gradually, then suddenly. From hard decisions and hidden preparation to the slow work of God that looks instant only in hindsight, they explore why patience may be the most underrated spiritual discipline of all.

Batterson and RDM talk about the writings of Eugene Peterson on the “long obedience” of a faith journey, the difference between patience and stagnation, how to know when you’re called to something and when you’re released from it, and why celebrity culture in the church short-circuits character formation. They get practical on habits (why 30 days feels like the hardest part), preaching long obedience in a city addicted to immediacy, learning grit without “snowplow” spirituality, and aiming at legacy that’s measured by who others become because of you. 

If you’re looking for wisdom without hurry, conviction without hype, and hope that can take a punch and keep walking, this is the episode for you.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Mark Batterson, Gradually, Then Suddenly 

Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

Eugene Peterson, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction 

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