Today on Moment of Zen, we're bringing you the third episode of "This Won't Last", the newest show from Turpentine.

Keith Rabois, Logan Bartlett, Kevin Ryan, and Zach Weinberg dissect the 2025 political landscape in a spirited discussion of Trump's evolved messaging and surprising tech industry backing. The conversation weaves through immigration policy, corporate political neutrality, and market dynamics - from Silicon Valley's rightward shift to urban crime challenges and insurance markets and explores how America's tech-policy nexus is reshaping in real-time.

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SPONSOR: NOTION | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | SQUAD

Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/upstreampod

Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen.

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod



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HIGHLIGHTS:

2024 Election Results

Tech Industry Political Evolution

Workplace Politics

New York Public Safety

California Natural Disasters

Healthcare Regulation

As China surges past the combined manufacturing might of Western democracies, economists Scott Sumner and Noah Smith square off on America's industrial future. While agreeing on economic fundamentals, they clash over the gravity of China's rise - Sumner advocating measured engagement while Smith warns of an unprecedented shift in global power requiring bold policy action.

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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

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SPONSOR: ORACLE | NETSUITE | SHOPIFY | ADQUICK

☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/

Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/momentofzen

Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit https://adquick.com/ to start reaching your customers in the real world.

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

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HIGHLIGHTS:

Core Agreement Areas:

Climate Change & Green Tech:

Central Point of Disagreement - China Threat:

Biden vs Trump Policy Results:

Manufacturing Strategy:

Editor of Arena magazine Maxwell Meyer and pseudonymous writer Indian Bronson join Erik Torenberg for part 3 of the immigration series. They discuss the evolving dynamics between Trump's tech and MAGA supporters, cutting through online drama to examine how both sides might find common ground on immigration, talent, and America's future.

This is part 3 to Bronson's earlier Moment of Zen episodes, Debating Immigration Policy and Bronson vs Everyone: H-1B Wars, Elon, and Trump

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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

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SPONSOR: NETSUITE | ORACLE

Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/zen.

☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

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RELATED LINKS:

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X / TWITTER:

@mualphaxi (Max Meyer)

@Indian_Bronson (Indian Bronson)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@turpentinemedia

@MOZ_Podcast

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HIGHLIGHTS:

I. Tech/Nationalist Right Conflict & Alliance

II. Trump & Immigration

III. Key Themes

IV. Predictions

V. Nuances of Immigration Debate

VI. Closing Thoughts

From Elon's immigration takes to Silicon Valley's clash with MAGA nationalists, this conversation between Erik Torenberg and Indian Bronson, a pseudonymous writer, dives deep into tech's newest culture war. Indian Bronson breaks down why Trumps's coalition has split over this issue and why America's elite and working class can't see eye to eye. This is part 2 to Bronson's earlier Moment of Zen episode, Debating Immigration Policy.

—

📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

—

SPONSOR: ORACLE

☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine/

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

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RELATED LINKS:

—

X / TWITTER:

@Indian_Bronson (Indian Bronson)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@turpentinemedia

@MOZ_Podcast

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HIGHLIGHTS

Political Coalition Discussion:

Immigration Policy Debate:

"America First" Philosophy:

Cultural and Economic Issues:

Bernie Sanders Reference:

Tech Culture Commentary:

Call to Action:

Marc Andreessen, General Partner at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) returns to Moment of Zen to discuss Trump's new administration, the political vibe shift for Silicon Valley, why San Francisco may be the cultural center of the universe, and what comes after wokeness.

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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

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SPONSORS: VANTA | SQUAD

Vanta automates security compliance and builds trust, helping companies streamline ISO, SOC 2, and AI framework certifications. Learn more at https://vanta.com/nlw

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod



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X / TWITTER:

@pmarca (Marc)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@turpentinemedia

@MOZ_Podcast

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HIGHLIGHTS

BOOKS MENTIONED:

Samo and Erik explore Twitter's evolution, digital politics, and Europe's societal constraints. The conversation weaves through topics of online influence, cultural shifts, and the future of political discourse in the digital age.

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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

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SPONSORS:

GIVEWELL

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the HIGHEST-IMPACT opportunities they’ve found. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. (Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to support our show.)

SQUAD

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

—

X / TWITTER:

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@samoburja (Samo)

@turpentinemedia

@MOZ_Podcast

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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg dissect the complex web of religion, nationalism, and power that shapes Middle Eastern politics. In this analysis, Samo reveals why traditional solutions have failed and offers a look at how demographic shifts and emerging ideologies will transform the region's future.

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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse 

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SPONSORS:

NETSUITE

More than 40,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. If you're looking for an ERP platform, get a one-of-a-kind flexible financing program on NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/zen - Download your free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning

SHOPIFY

Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive

GIVEWELL

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the HIGHEST-IMPACT opportunities they’ve found. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. (Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to support our show.)

SQUAD

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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X / TWITTER:

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@samoburja (Samo)

@turpentinemedia

@MOZ_Podcast

—

HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

In this episode of Moment of Zen, Erik Torenberg engages Indian Bronson, a pseudonymous writer, for a debate about immigration policy, national identity, and the future of American society. For full shownotes, visit highlight: https://highlightai.com/share/a08fc2a5-ff40-4d3b-8f2c-7174fde876cf

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🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse.

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SPONSORS:

NETSUITE

More than 40,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. If you're looking for an ERP platform, get a one-of-a-kind flexible financing program on NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/zen - Download your free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning

SHOPIFY

Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive

GIVEWELL

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the HIGHEST-IMPACT opportunities they’ve found. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. (Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to support our show.)

SQUAD

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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Links:

IB's writing: https://indianbronson.substack.com/

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Follow on X:

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@Indian_Bronson (Bronson)

@turpentinemedia

In this episode, Erik Torenberg and economist Noah Smith dive tackle pressing questions on government efficiency, libertarianism, immigration, housing, military spending, and the future of American politics. For full shownotes, visit highlight: https://highlightai.com/share/150a6b58-03ac-4eb2-b99a-803f577b1815

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🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse.

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

🎙️ Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg

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SPONSORS:

INCOGNI

Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MOMENT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/moment

SHOPIFY

Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive

GIVEWELL

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the HIGHEST-IMPACT opportunities they’ve found. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. (Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to support our show.)

SQUAD

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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Follow on X:

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@noahpinion (Noah)

@turpentinemedia

In this episode of "Moment of Zen," hosts Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja delve into the concept of populism and its impact on modern politics. For full shownotes, visit highlight: https://highlightai.com/share/0a17c191-56ca-43f0-b169-614198ecbc29

—

🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse.

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

🎙️ Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg

--

SPONSORS:

INCOGNI

Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MOMENT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/moment

SHOPIFY

Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive

GIVEWELL

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the HIGHEST-IMPACT opportunities they’ve found. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. (Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to support our show.)

SQUAD

Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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Follow on X:

@whatifalthist (Rudyard)

@samoburja (Samo)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@turpentinemedia