In this powerful continuation of our interview with Ben and Justine, we explore their raw and honest journey from deep devotion in the LDS Church to personal awakening, heartbreak, and healing.

They share how their relationship grew during Justine’s school years, navigating early marriage, financial and gender-role challenges, and the burden of trying to live up to faith-based ideals. From motherhood identity struggles to confronting doctrinal issues and discovering their voices during a faith crisis, this episode is full of vulnerable, eye-opening moments.

Highlights include:

• Gender roles & pressure in Mormonism

• The cost of silence during a faith crisis

• The CES Letter, LDS Discussions & uncovering hard truths

• Healing from betrayal, rebuilding marriage & reconnecting with family

• Their plea for empathy from believing members

Whether you're in faith, out of faith, or somewhere in between—this is a story about agency, partnership, and finding truth together.

Show Notes

Watch this episode on YouTube here.

___________________

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.

Our overall mission is to:

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

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In this episode, Ben and Justine share their powerful and emotional journeys through Mormonism, immigration, family trauma, and healing. They discuss Ben's family's escape from political turmoil, their struggles with loss, and the lure of the Mormon doctrine of eternal families.

Ben faces racial and cultural challenges within the Church, battles self-worth issues, and grapples with the harm purity culture and missionary service caused.

Justine recounts her own upbringing in a strict Mormon household, the pressure of modesty culture, and the way Mormon ideals shaped her relationships and sense of self.

Together, they reflect on how they met, the impact of internalized racism, and their path toward authenticity, healing, and love — even as they confront the pain Mormonism left behind.

This is part 1 of a very special two-part Mormon Stories interview.

00:00:00 Introduction 

00:06:34 Ben’s parents experience multiple infant loss/miscarriage

00:28:15 Reconnecting with the Church in Canada

00:39:00 “I left my home, my pride, mi familia.”

00:58:30 How Mormonism helps & harms at the same time

01:10:15 Justine’s Mormon childhood, youngest of 7, father a convert

01:22:11 Chosen generation trope affects relationships w/friends & family

01:38:10 Effects of purity culture

01:47:49 Justine repents for first boyfriend, first kiss at University

02:09:27 Ben & Justine become friends

02:17:13 Going on a mission causes more strife with Ben’s parents

02:38:20 Ben ignores intuition to tell gay convert not to join, ending in tragedy

02:55:45 Justine feels pressure to focus on numbers instead of people on her mission

03:20:07 How Justine & Ben start dating

03:24:15 Book of Mormon racism

03:26:30 Ben’s anguish over harm to himself & his relationship with his parents

Show Notes

YouTube

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In this powerful follow-up conversation, Britt Hartley returns to explore 10 practical and emotional steps to take during your faith deconstruction journey. From embracing anger and grief, to rediscovering your identity, setting boundaries, and finding peace in the unknown—this episode is a guide to healing, growth, and transformation.

Whether you're newly questioning or deep in the process, these insights will help you navigate deconstruction with compassion and clarity.

Topics include:

• Grieving your old beliefs

• Embracing uncertainty

• Inner child & shadow work

• Building authentic community

• Setting loving boundaries

• Learning to just be

  
  

Join us as we unpack the deep emotional layers of deconstruction and the tools that can truly support your journey.

00:00:00 Introduction
00:04:17 First: Anger, grief phase, etc. Lean into the anger
00:12:12 Second: Embracing what you don’t know
00:20:36 Third: Dating yourself
00:29:52 Fourth: Inner child work
00:37:11 Fifth: Shadow work
00:44:35 Sixth: Deculting
00:50:38 Seventh: Vulnerably reaching out to others
00:57:00 How men are doing in deconstruction vs. how women are doing
01:01:32 Eighth: Exploring human development
01:08:15 Ninth: Boundaries from a place of love
01:14:33 Tenth: Learning how to just be
01:19:00 Closing remarks

Show Notes

YouTube

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Jennifer Wilson shares her deeply personal journey from growing up in a devout Mormon family to questioning, deconstructing, and ultimately leaving her faith. She opens up about her family's polygamist history, her mission experience, marriage, leadership roles in the church, and the struggles that came with navigating faith transitions. From grappling with church expectations to finding newfound freedom and clarity, Jennifer reflects on how this journey has reshaped her identity, marriage, and parenting.Key Topics Covered: Growing up in a Mormon household & family history, missionary experiences & gender expectations in the church, marriage, motherhood & church leadership roles, doubts, faith crisis & leaving the church, Raising kids outside of Mormonism & rediscovering identity.Join us for an honest, heartfelt conversation about faith, change, and self-discovery. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments!___________________At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor todayOne-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories Join this channel to get access to perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/joinOur Platforms:🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories ✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF Contact us:📧 [email protected]📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

In this episode, we explore 10 common pitfalls people face during religious deconstruction. From navigating relationships and parenting outside of organized religion to the challenges of psychedelics, intellectualism, and identity loss—this is a raw, honest conversation about life after faith. Whether you're just beginning your journey or deep in it, this discussion offers insight, validation, and guidance.

Key topics covered:

• Why opening your marriage right after leaving religion may backfire

• How to provide structure for your kids without religion

• The psychedelic trap & chasing spiritual highs

• The “missionary phase” of ex-belief systems

• Finding meaning beyond religion, without clinging to new dogmas

• The lifelong process of deconstruction

• And much more, including Gen Z dating, chakras, free will, and dreams

Don’t miss her reflections on what she’s learned, what to avoid, and how to move forward with integrity and openness.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:00 Introduction

00:04:44 These are things she's learned to be aware of as you are in the mess of religious deconstruction; it’s not a same thing

00:08:04 The first thing you should avoid: Opening your marriage soon after leaving your faith

00:16:32 Second: Providing order and structure for kids

00:22:37 Do kids need religion for structure and order?

00:34:15 Third: Psychedelic chasing

00:39:45 Four: Clinging to new beliefs

00:45:32 Reality is more magical than how we view reality

00:50:28 Five: Avoid the Missionary Phase. Sam Harris says: “No one is more ardent in their atheism than exMormons”

00:57:01 Six: Not recognizing the good in religion 

01:04:57 Seven: Underestimating the hard work it is to replace religion

01:12:32 Eight: Underestimating that deconstruction is a lifelong process

01:18:11 Do we have free will? 

01:28:32 Nine: Avoid finding new prophets

01:35:45 Ten: Overemphasis on intellectualism

01:42:53 Final thoughts

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After nearly two centuries of strict modesty standards, the Mormon Church has made a historic change—women’s garments now allow for exposed shoulders. In this in-depth panel, Mormon women unpack the significance of this shift. From the garments' Masonic roots and historical designs to the ways they’ve shaped modesty culture, sexuality, and control over women's bodies, this conversation dives deep. The panel also explores the social media response, health concerns, and the ongoing discomfort many women still face. With personal stories, historical context, and commentary on the new designs, this is a must-watch discussion on a topic rarely spoken about so openly.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:00 Introductions

00:18:15 Rules around garments

00:26:32 Modesty culture shaped by garments

00:34:10 Church doctrine around garments

00:39:50 Modesty policing among members - “garment checking”

01:06:00 The effect of garments on a couple’s sex life

01:25:00 Photos of the new garment designs

01:32:00 How would they have received this info as an active believer?

01:51:00 Nancy’s final comments

02:02:35 @AndreaFausett video

02:09:28 @VikaFroclieh video

02:18:00 Video of woman walking into church in new garments

02:25:25 Discussion on if tight fitting clothing is okay

02:27:00 “Gen Z is different”

02:28:10 Third @AndreaFausett video

02:332:26 Sharing superchat comments

02:34:54 @NicoleEversten video

02:36:25 Second @VikaFroclieh video

02:42:30 @Haleyrawle video

02:51:20 @Exponentii_blog video (Abby’s video)

02:55:32 Final thoughts

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In Part 2 of our story, Kyle opens up about his life growing up in the Two by Twos faith — from a childhood shaped by pressure to "uphold the family name," to navigating chronic illness and suppressing his passions for music and basketball in order to prioritize church. We talk about the expectations around professing young, the control over dating, marriage, and even parenting — including the harmful encouragement of corporal punishment.

As cracks began to form during the COVID-19 pandemic, Kyle and Kari found themselves questioning everything they believed. From hidden doubts, religious trauma, and Kari’s journey of discovering her bisexuality, to the couple’s darkest moments and eventual transformation, this episode dives deep into how they began rebuilding their lives outside the 2x2 world.

We also discuss the emerging abuse allegations within the Two by Twos church, the beginnings of their Ex-Two by Two support group, and the broader fight for transparency and accountability in a faith that claims to have no organization at all. This is a raw, emotional, and revealing chapter of their deconstruction journey.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:00 Introduction

00:04:02 Kyle’s background & upbringing as a 2x2

00:16:17 What happens when a child “professes”?

00:29:06 Feeling immense pressure to stick to the gospel

00:34:21 His views on dating at the time

00:44:40 2x2 Wedding

00:48:23 Were told by multiple people the needed to “break their kids” - corporal punishment very big among 2x2

00:56:40 How did 2x2 members look at covid/the vaccine/masks?

01:12:49 Kari told Kyle she was atheist 

01:26:24 Kyle had the feeling that he just ran off a cliff

01:37:21 Kari realized, if it feels like the only way out is death, it is not a healthy religion - realized he was giving too much to something that was not giving back

01:46:09 Kari got her ears pierced for the first time - was a very liberating experience 

01:47:15 “The Ex 2x2 Support Group”

01:53:38 Highly respected overseer found dead in a hotel room 

02:15:25 “If there is no organization, there is no organization to sue”

02:29:55 ‘How do you shut down an organization that doesn't exist?”

02:35:02 How much money does the 2x2 church have? How can it be tracked?

02:42:00 How do they try to gather with ex-members?

02:53:15 Conclusion

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Kari & Kyle Hanks share their journey of leaving the secretive 2x2 church, a religious group with no official name, written doctrine, or corporate structure. They discuss their upbringings, struggles with faith, the exclusivity of the religion, and the trauma they endured. From discovering the church’s hidden history to creating a support group for ex-members, they expose abuse scandals, strict doctrines on women, and emotional suppression within the group. Their deconstruction was influenced by the Mormon Stories Podcast, COVID-19, and personal revelations about belief, identity, and autonomy. Now, they advocate for informed consent and support those leaving high-control religions.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:40 Kari & Kyle introduce themselves and the Two by Twos group
00:14:04 They do not have a written doctrine, it is all word of mouth
00:21:59 The founding of Two by Two - founded by William Irving
00:28:28 It wasn’t until 1905 that the group started preaching exclusivity
00:37:52 Irving is kicked out of the church, although some still stay loyal to him. Another splinter group.
00:49:50 Three meetings a week
01:00:46 Background of their theology/doctrine
01:09:02 Discussion of Heaven & Hell
01:17:04 Kari’s background in the church
01:23:17 Growing up as a 2x2 girl
01:30:30 How does the group refer to themselves?
01:38:43 Never having the language to describe her feelings or sexuality
01:42:09 Higher education was discouraged for many, especially women
01:54:17 Emotional manipulation in high demand religions
02:24:47 2x2s very politically conservative, but are not typically involved politically
02:27:08 When did she start to think she was in a cult?

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After five years of reflection, Kate opens up about her journey growing up in a strict Mormon household, serving a mission in Argentina, and working for the LDS Church. She shares pivotal moments of doubt, her experiences in church administration, and the troubling realities she uncovered in the Confidential Records department. From questioning church discipline policies to witnessing firsthand how the institution handles abuse cases, Kate's story reveals the struggles and insights that ultimately led her to leave the church. Join us as she discusses faith, disillusionment, and life after Mormonism.

Show Notes

YouTube

00:00:00 Beginning

00:03:40 Kate Lyn’s Mormon story begins

00:10:20 Confessing "sins" to her bishop

00:16:44 Decides to serve a mission

00:30:37 Hardest parts of mission

00:39:58 “Golden investigator” on mission was con man

00:47:33 Started working for the church

00:49:00 Worked with high level leaders

01:14:25 People trying to steal from the church

01:18:53 Confidential Records department

01:22:46 Reading about bad things in the discipline documents

02:13:12 Becoming PIMO (physically in mentally out"

02:15:56 Woman excommunicated for sleeping with her bishop at 14 years old

02:24:37 “I don't think I would have left the church, if I didn’t work for the church”

02:39:40 On Mormons who look down on people

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On March 12, 2025, Church educator and BYU professor Jared Halverson released an Instagram short where he stated: “One of the statistics that has worried me the most of late, comes from a survey that was done in 2023 and it’s suggesting that for the first time that I can think of, more women are leaving religion than men are.” Is this true? Why are more women leaving Mormonism than men are? Join us today as we gather with Katie Rich (author of Fifty Years of Exponent II), Amy McPhie Allebest (of the Breaking Down Patriarchy YouTube channel), and Abby Maxwell Hansen (who was threatened with excommunication for her profile on Ordain Women in 2013 and an Exponent II blogger since 2019), as well as writer and columnist Jana Riess to discuss this growing phenomenon.Jared Halverson is an associate professor of Ancient Scriptures and served for over 20 years in the Church Education System. Halverson earned his BA in History and MA in Religious Education. He has been a featured speaker in devotionals as well as in academic settings. He is the host of the YouTube channel and podcast titled “Unshaken.”You can view Jared Halverson’s original video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TevsIrw1nqsShow Notes: https://www.mormonstories.org/why-are-women-leaving-the-mormon-church/

Show Notes

YouTube
00:00:00 Beginning00:01:50 Introducing the panelists00:05:40 Amy personally knows Jared Halverson00:12:50 Jared Halverson background00:16:24 Clip - Jared Halverson on why women are leaving the Church00:22:19 Reactions to Jared Halverson’s clip00:37:55 How lessons in church are ALL focused on men instead of the women00:40:31 The definitions of patriarchy 00:45:07 Six women’s names in the Book of Mormon00:49:00 What is Exponent II and Ordain Women?00:55:12 Women going to Priesthood session in 201301:05:25 Comments from Halverson’s original cilp01:12:25 This lesson from Halvereson was focused on Emma Smith01:23:30 “I don’t want an unshakable faith” I want to adjust and learn and change01:33:40 LDS Retention Rates over time01:40:00 Efficacy by gender01:45:10 Current members’ theological certainty over time02:14:00 Are women leaving for worldly reasons?02:20:04 Clip from Julie Hanks and Britt Hartley02:24:40 Jared’s full apology 02:29:48 Reactions to Jared’s apology02:35:25 How to have better apologies02:46:20 Abby shares personal experiences about being a woman in the church, etc.02:56:15 How impactful the exMormon internet has become03:01:20 Final words

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