Mormon Stories Podcast

In Part Two, we continue Patrick Brady and Dan Dorty’s story as Patrick becomes a Mormon bishop while privately struggling with his sexuality and his increasingly complicated relationship with Dan. 

Patrick discusses serving as a bishop, his approach to worthiness interviews, pornography and masturbation, the law of chastity, and his desire to create a safer environment for members of his ward. We also explore the Church’s 2015 policy concerning same-sex couples and its eventual reversal, and how these events affected Patrick’s faith. 

The conversation then turns to Patrick and Dan questioning their place in the Church, the SEC investigation, Church history, Patrick coming out to his wife, and his eventual decision to step away from Mormonism. 

Patrick reflects on marriage, family, faith, sexuality, and what happened when he finally took away the Church’s power to control him. 

___________________

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

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In this interview, we sit down with Patrick Brady and his partner Dan Dougherty to hear Patrick’s story of growing up as a gay man in the Mormon church, marrying a wonderful woman, raising a family, serving in church leadership, and eventually becoming a bishop while keeping a deeply important part of his identity hidden.

Patrick was married to Heidi for 27 years and had four children, and he describes how much he loved his family while simultaneously feeling unable to live openly as a gay man. From an early age, he was taught that being gay was sinful and that marriage to a woman could somehow “fix” his same-sex attraction. He shares how teachings from Mormon leaders, including Spencer W. Kimball, shaped his understanding of homosexuality and led him to compartmentalize his feelings and try to eliminate them rather than accept them. He shares his experiences as a missionary, his return to Salt Lake City, the underground gay culture among Mormon men, and his efforts to reconcile his sexuality with the Church he loved. 

We also explore Patrick’s marriage to Heidi, his friendship with Dan, and the emotional intimacy that developed between them as two gay Mormon men who were committed to their families and their faith. 

Part One follows Patrick’s journey from childhood through his marriage, family life, Church service, and the years he spent trying to live a divided life.

___________________

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

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For this week's Mormon News Podcast, John Dehlin and Meggan Hayes look at Apostle D. Todd Christofferson's General Conference talk on gambling, a remarkably well-timed prediction from Latter-day Saint journalist McKay Coppins, a new documentary exploring the experiences of queer Christians, the latest development in the Bisbee abuse case, Dan McClellan, Flightless Bird and more.

Months before General Conference, Latter-day Saint journalist McKay Coppins spent a year immersed in America's rapidly expanding gambling industry for The Atlantic. Then, just weeks before conference, he appeared on the Mormon Land podcast and predicted that Church leaders might soon address gambling directly.

Then D. Todd Christofferson did exactly that. His October General Conference talk addressed sports betting, prediction markets, young people gambling, addiction, and even betting on the timing of the Second Coming. We compare his talk with Coppins' earlier reporting and look at just how much the two have in common.

Christofferson's gambling talk also found an unexpected fan outside the usual General Conference audience. Political streamer Hasan Piker praised the Church's stance on gambling, saying, "It's hard for me not to give a shoutout to the Mormons on this one."

Kathy Baldock is on the scene exploring what happens when LGBTQ identity and Christian faith intersect, including the experiences of people trying to find belonging in religious communities while navigating teachings about sexuality and identity.

The Bisbee abuse case may be headed to the nation's highest court. Survivors are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to hear their case involving clergy confidentiality and the failure of LDS bishops to report abuse they learned about through confession.

Biblical scholar Dan McClellan continues his work separating what biblical texts actually say from the assumptions and doctrines that have accumulated around them. We take a look at his latest conversation and what it adds to discussions about scripture and religious authority.

And finally, Flightless Bird enters the world of Mormonism, giving an outsider's perspective on Latter-day Saint beliefs, culture and the sometimes very unusual world surrounding the faith.

___________________

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Show Notes

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Why would a British ex-Mormon sue a Marriott hotel over the Book of Mormon in her nightstand?

Amanda Barnett grew up Mormon in Plymouth, England. Her mother and grandmother joined the church when the missionaries knocked in 1961. Most Mormon Stories guests believed for years before something fell apart. Amanda never believed at all. She was nearly four when her grandfather died, and when her family told her he'd gone to Heavenly Father, she says she looked up at them and thought, "You're lying."

Amanda tells John Dehlin about growing up as the only Mormon in her school in 1960s and 70s Britain. She describes being sealed to her parents in the London Temple at 14, asking her mother whether she'd choose God or her, and learning that the only Black man in her ward couldn't do what even the boys did because of the "mark of Cain." On her 16th birthday in 1976, she told her mother she would never believe and was never going back to church. Then came two marriages, three daughters, and her mother's early death from a brain tumor. During her mother's illness, the help that came was from charities and a hospice, not the LDS Church. Through it all she was the non-believer in a devout family. Years later she found the ex-Mormon community online, and this month she found it in person on the Post-Mormon Cruise.

In the second half of the episode, Amanda and her husband Jez explain the claim she has filed in the courts of England and Wales. It's against the franchisee that runs the Leicester Marriott. While staying there, Amanda found a Book of Mormon in the drawer and complained about the racist language in 2 Nephi 5:21. The hotel told her the books are a tradition the Marriott family started in 1957. Her claim is not about religion. She argues that putting this text in a paid hotel room is racial harassment and indirect discrimination under the UK Equality Act. The only remedy she asks for is removing the books, or using the "ask at reception" card system Marriott already uses in other countries. Her grandchildren are mixed-race, which makes this personal. Her case management hearing is set for October 12, 2026.

Amanda ends with a message to her family and to Latter-day Saints everywhere: read those verses and ask whether they still belong in your scripture today.

Thanks to Nemo for the introduction, and to RFM, Bill Reel, Rebecca Bibliotheca and everyone who ran the Post-Mormon Cruise.

Recorded September 22, 2026, in Salt Lake City.

Support Mormon Stories: http://www.mormonstories.org/donate

Apply to share your story: http://www.mormonstories.org/apply

___________________

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

In Part 2 of this Mormon Stories interview, John Dehlin continues his conversation with Noah Rasheta, a former Mormon who became a Buddhist teacher and a host of the Secular Buddhism podcast. After leaving Mormonism and entering what he calls “seeker mode,” Noah began exploring Buddhism –not simply as a set of beliefs, but as a practical way of understanding suffering, relationships, grief, and everyday life. 

Noah begins explaining what Buddhism actually is, whether it should be considered a religion, and who the Buddha was. He introduces the Four Noble Truths and explores the Buddhist understanding of suffering, including the distinction between unavoidable suffering and the additional suffering we create for ourselves. 

Together, Noah and John Discuss the “first and second arrow” teaching, the happiness trap, and the idea that while we cannot always control what happens to us, we can often influence how much additional suffering we create in response. Noah also shares personal experiences with panic and anxiety and explains how mindfulness and meditation became practical tools in his own life. 

The conversation becomes especially personal as Noah discusses the death of his father and how Buddhist practices helped him navigate grief. John and Noah explore mindfulness, grief meditation, contemplating death as a way of appreciating life, and the possibility of meeting difficult experiences with greater awareness rather than resistance. 

The discussion then expands into Buddhist ethics and philosophy, including right resolve, the dangers and benefits of absolute authority, the idea that no single worldview necessarily represents universal reality, the Buddhist principle of “do no harm,” and the concept of right livelihood. Noah also explains Buddhist perspectives on death and the afterlife and offers practical suggestions for people who are curious about exploring Buddhism for themselves. 

This episode is ultimately a conversation about what happens when we stop asking only, “What is true?” and begin asking, “How should I live?” Noah shares the practices and ideas that have shaped his life since leaving Mormonism and offers a thoughtful introduction to Buddhism as a path for engaging with suffering, uncertainty, grief, and the human experience. 

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

In Part 1 of this Mormon Stories interview, John Dehlin sits down with Noah Rasheta, a former Mormon who became a Buddhist teacher and host of the Secular Buddhism podcast, to explore his journey from a deeply Mormon upbringing to a life shaped by Buddhist practice and philosophy. 

Noah was raised Mormon in Mexico after his parents converted to the Church when he was young. He descries growing up as one of only a few Mormons at his school, navigating Mormon expectations alongside Mexican culture, Catholic family influences, and his naturally curious personality. He eventually served a mission in Ecuador, where he began confronting some of the most rigid and troubling aspects of Mormon doctrine –including the idea that other religious traditions were fundamentally wrong. 

After returning home, Noah attended university, married in the Salt Lake Temple, and began building a life within Mormonism. But questions about Church doctrine, Joseph Smith, his marriage, and the role of faith in his life eventually led him into a deep faith crisis. As his questions grew, Noah discovered Mormon Stories and began searching for answers beyond the framework he had grown up with. 

That search eventually led him to Buddhism. Noah explains how Buddhist practice changed the way he approached suffering, relationships, certainty, and everyday life –and why Buddhism initially provided a way for him to remain in a mixed-faith marriage. 

Part 2 continues Noah’s story and explores what happens after his marriage ended, how he rebuilt his life, and what he learned from the experience. 

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

For this week's Mormon News Podcast, John Dehlin and Meggan Hayes look at Nemo the Mormon getting international attention as LADbible takes a deep dive into his excommunication from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, plus new developments in the LDS Church's lawsuit against Mormon Stories, declining Latter-day Saint birthrates, former tradwives rejecting the movement, changes to the 2027 Come, Follow Me manual, and more.

Nemo the Mormon's excommunication is already familiar to many in the Mormon world, but now his story is reaching a much larger international audience. LADbible's new documentary, Nemo vs the Mormon Church: The Cost of Speaking Out, explores Nemo's experience challenging Church leaders, losing his membership, and what came afterward.

There are also new developments in the LDS Church's lawsuit against Mormon Stories. The Salt Lake Tribune reports on comments made by Church attorney David Jordan during an appearance on the pro-LDS Keystone podcast and why Mormon Stories' attorneys believe those comments could complicate the Church's case. John also joined Mormonism Live this week to discuss the lawsuit, the Church's claims, and what the documents actually show.

We also look at a recent leadership session from the Highland Utah East Stake and what local Church leaders are being told.

Latter-day Saints are still having more children than many Americans, but LDS family sizes and birthrates have been falling. The Salt Lake Tribune looks at the Church's long history of encouraging marriage and children, how those messages have changed, and whether Latter-day Saint couples are likely to reverse the trend.

The New York Times is also looking at women who once embraced the tradwife movement and are now rejecting it. We discuss what they're saying about traditional gender roles, marriage, motherhood, and why some women are walking away from the lifestyle.

Then, Mormon.ish takes a close look at the newly released Come, Follow Me 2027 New Testament manual, comparing it with the previous curriculum to see what's been added, removed, and reframed.

And finally, a little Ted Lasso makes its way into the Mormon conversation.

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Does chiasmus prove that the Book of Mormon is an ancient text?

In this episode of LDS Discussions, we take a closer look at one of the most frequently cited arguments for the Book of Mormon’s ancient authenticity: chiasmus. Mormon apologists have argued that the presence of complex chiastic structures demonstrates that the Book of Mormon was written by ancient Hebrew authors and could not have been produced by Joseph Smith in the 19th century. 

But there is a problem with that argument: chiasmus does not appear only in the Book of Mormon. 

We examine what chiasmus actually is, how John W. Welch famously identified chiasmus in the Book of Mormon. We also look at the way chiasmus and other biblical literary patterns appear throughout the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Moses, Book of Abraham, and even Joseph Smith’s personal writings and letters. 

We also examine an important question about translation. If the Book of Mormon was originally written in Reformed Egyptian and then translated into English, how could highly specific Hebrew literary structures survive that process? The Book of Mormon itself says that its language had been altered, raising questions about the assumption that these literary structures should necessarily have been preserved. 

If the presence of chiasmus in the Book of Mormon is supposed to demonstrate that it was written by ancient authors, what should we make of the same literary technique appearing in texts that unquestionably originated in the modern era? Even Shakespeare, who was born in London, wrote complex chiasms. The goal is not simply to ask whether chiasmus exists in the Book of Mormon, but whether its existence actually demonstrates ancient authorship. 

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

What does it mean to grow up Black and Mormon in an overwhelmingly white church?

In Part One of our conversation with Mariama Nadworna, she shares her story of growing up in Sierra Leone before moving to the UK as a child. When her mother began investigating Mormonism, Mariama’s family eventually went “all in” on the church, embracing its teachings and community as they adjusted to life in a new country.

Mariama describes how her Mormon upbringing shaped the way she understood race, worthiness, obedience, and her own identity. She also discusses growing up Black in predominantly white Mormon spaces, learning to navigate the world “from the outside in,” and feeling pressure to be exceptional in order to prove herself. We explore the church’s historical teachings about race, including the “Curse of Cain,” interracial marriage, and the priesthood ban, as well as the ways these teachings affected her understanding of her own worth.

Mariama also reflects on her mission, dating, education, and the ways her African heritage and spirituality shaped her relationship with Mormonism. This episode ultimately begs the question: What happens when the community you seek belonging in will not accept you for who you truly are?

___________________

Show Notes

YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

⁠One-time or recurring donations⁠

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Our Platforms:

🌐⁠Mormon Stories Blog ⁠

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Contact us:

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

What does it mean to grow up Black and Mormon in an overwhelmingly white church?

In Part One of our conversation with Mariama Nadworna, she shares her story of growing up in Sierra Leone before moving to the UK as a child. When her mother began investigating Mormonism, Mariama’s family eventually went “all in” on the church, embracing its teachings and community as they adjusted to life in a new country.

Mariama describes how her Mormon upbringing shaped the way she understood race, worthiness, obedience, and her own identity. She also discusses growing up Black in predominantly white Mormon spaces, learning to navigate the world “from the outside in,” and feeling pressure to be exceptional in order to prove herself. We explore the church’s historical teachings about race, including the “Curse of Cain,” interracial marriage, and the priesthood ban, as well as the ways these teachings affected her understanding of her own worth.

Mariama also reflects on her mission, dating, education, and the ways her African heritage and spirituality shaped her relationship with Mormonism. This episode ultimately begs the question: What happens when the community you seek belonging in will not accept you for who you truly are?

___________________

Show Notes

YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

⁠One-time or recurring donations⁠

⁠Patreon⁠

⁠Venmo ⁠

⁠PayPal ⁠

Our Platforms:

🌐⁠Mormon Stories Blog ⁠

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Contact us:

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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117