Welcome back for Part 22 of our Joseph Smith the Podcast series with Dr. John G. Turner as we continue to cover his new book “Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.”

In this episode, we explore one of the most controversial and lesser-known chapters in early Latter-day Saint history –the rise of the Danites, a secretive paramilitary organization formed during the turbulent Missouri period of 1838.

We trace tensions between Mormons and non-Mormons escalated into organized violence, how Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and other church leaders responded, and what this meant for the future of the Latter-day Saint movement. Along the way, we discuss excommunications, failed settlements, political conflicts, and the enduring question: Did Joseph Smith authorize the Danites’ violent actions?

This is the first half of Chapter 19 of the book, covering the years 1838-1839 in Missouri –where “Zion” collided with the American frontier.

Please purchase the book ⁠here⁠.

To support this series please donate ⁠here⁠. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.

00:06:35 The Mormons settled in Caldwell county, little Zion00:10:50 Joseph doesn’t want a repeat of what happened in Kirtland, Ohio00:15:15 Many of the Brethren no longer have confidence in Joseph Smith00:26:20 The true crime was disloyalty00:30:07 Is it possible that Oliver falsely accused Joseph with Fanny Alger?00:36:54 Adam-ondi-Ahman and the Garden of Eden00:40:18 Did Joseph Smith think the Book of Mormon geography expanded down to MesoAmerica?00:47:46 Rapidly growing Mormon settlements and non-Mormons object to it00:50:30 The Danites in Mormon history01:03:22 People fighting in the temple and everything was falling apart01:07:37 Joseph Smith authorizes violence against non-Mormon Missourians01:08:36 Who were the Danites and did Joseph Smith authorize it?01:21:49 Salty speech from Sidney Rigdon01:29:44 Danite sign of distress01:31:19 Closing remarks - lead up to Missouri mob violence01:36:09 If the Saints had always acted peacefully, could they have been left alone to thrive in Missouri?

___________________

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

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In this fascinating interview, author and journalist Alex Beam joins Mormon Stories to discuss his new biography titled Wallace Stegner: Dean of Western Writers –published by Signature Books. Alex Beam is an acclaimed journalist and author known for his insightful historical biographies. Historian and executive director of Signature Books, Barbara Jones Brown is also joining us today!

Beam explores the life, legacy, and complex relationships Stegner had with Mormonism, the American West, and figures like Joseph Smith and Gordon B. Hinckley. From Stegner’s friendship and literary achievements to his nuanced understanding of Mormon culture, this conversation dives into history, literature, and faith.

Buy his new book from Signature books: https://www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/wallace-stegner

00:00:00 Introductions00:01:13 Who was Wallace Stegner?00:04:25 Who is Alex Beam?00:12:08 Who was Joseph Smith and his character?00:17:37 Why did Signature publish this book?00:20:10 Professor Vardis Fisher was a talent spotter00:24:47 Mormon adjacent life of Wallace Stegner00:34:07 Stegner had old fashioned values and dating Mormon women00:37:47 His experience at the University of Utah00:47:18 Stegner’s career and the main books he wrote00:57:07 His mother and brother died in Salt Lake City00:57:32 The picture of his mother’s gravestone01:04:08 Stegner on polygamy01:10:08 Stegner’s work on Bernard DeVoto01:19:35 Stegner won the Pulitzer Prize for his book “The Year of Decisions 1846”01:23:21 Four historians whom he has complete trust in (including Juanita Brooks)01:30:06 Stegner wasn’t there to quarrel with the Mormon church01:32:17 Closing remarks

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In this explosive deep-dive, John Dehlin and Carah Burrell unpack the shocking rise, fall, and reinvention of Tim Ballard, the founder of Operation Underground Railroad and former ally of the LDS Church, as well as the self-styled hero of the Sound of Freedom movie.

From his alleged misconduct and excommunication to conspiracy claims about “The Deep Church,” Tim Ballard’s story intertwines faith, politics, and power in ways that continue to shake the Mormon and evangelical words.

Join us as we trace the full timeline –from his early missions and fundraising empire to the lawsuits, psychic consultations, and his recent pivot toward Christian nationalism and political ambition.

Watch till the end for breaking developments, exclusive insights, and what this all means for the future of Mormonism, OUR, and Ballard’s next moves!

___________________

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

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We are back today with part 21 of our Joseph Smith Podcast series with Dr. John Turner, discussing his new book Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.

In this episode, we explore one of the most fascinating and consequential moments in early Latter-day Saint history –the Kirtland Bank Scandal. Chapter 18 titled “Follies” (1836-1837), captures a turbulent period when Joseph SMith and the Saints in Kirtland, Ohio, faced financial ruin, internal dissent, and the unraveling of faith and community.

We trace how the ambitious completion of the Kirtland Temple left the Saints deep in debt and how Joseph Smith’s attempt to solve these financial woes through the creation of the Kirtland Safety Society Bank (or “anti” Bank) spiraled into one of the earliest crises of the Restoration. Against the backdrop of President ANdrew Jackson’s anti-bank crusade and the Panic of 1837, the Saints’ experiment with banking, prophecy, and faith would test their loyalty, their leadership, and their limits.

The story unfolds through dramatic events: Joseph and Sidney hiding from sheriffs, treasure-digging expeditions to Salem in search of divine relief from debt, and the chaotic collapse of confidence in the unchartered “anti-bank.” We discuss how this episode intertwined religious revelation and financial desperation – and how it triggered what became the largest apostasy in early church history.

Please purchase the book ⁠here⁠.

To support this series please donate ⁠here⁠. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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Is Nahom really the strongest evidence for the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon? In this episode, we take a deep dive into noe of the most cited archaeological “proofs” of the Book of Mormon -the discovery of altars inscribed with the letters NHM in Yemen.

John Dehlin and attorney and former clerk from the Idaho Supreme Court, Kolby Reddish examine what the text of the Book of Mormon actually says about Nahom, where it’s supposed to be located, and whether the archaeological evidence matches up. Along the way, we look at how apologists, scholars, and critics have each interpreted this find -and what it really says about the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

We also examine whether or not Joseph Smith could have known about Nahom (or Nehem) from maps or Biblical references, and how issues like confirmation bias and faith-based reasoning play into the debate.

This conversation aims to be evidence-based, thoughtful, and respectful -seeking understanding amid polarization in the Mormon and ex-Mormon communities.

00:00:00 Introduction00:03:15 Does the Book of Mormon need to be historical?00:04:31 John’s intentions for these episodes00:09:30 What is Nahom? - Introduction to First Nephi00:11:34 The place “which was called Nahom”00:14:10 What the Book of Mormon text says in 1 Nephi 16:34

00:18:35 S Kent Brown calling the issue of Nahom “basically settled”00:26:10 Photos of the altars with “NHM”00:27:30 How apologists are characterizing this00:29:27 Clip on an Inconvenient Faith on Nahom00:33:05 Where are “NHM” altars located and is it where the Book of Mormon says?00:36:45 What the Book of Mormon says about the location of Nahom00:43:48 Another map from Scripture Central page on an ancient tribal region00:46:00 The Site for the NHM altars (The Barran Temple)00:50:59 Brief introduction to the Sabaeans, a group of people much larger than those at Jerusalem00:52:15 The inscriptions on the altars01:00:24 Where this temple site is, 25 miles from the Nihm region01:02:56 Clip - Did Joseph Smith find “Nahom” on old maps01:09:40 Maps that include Nahom/Nehem01:13:50 Occam’s Razor01:15:43 Nahum in the Bible01:19:52 Oliver Cowdery purchased a Bible01:23:44 All the problems you would have to overlook to accept Nahom01:27:38 Parallelism - Chiasmus argument01:41:57 Closing remarks

___________________

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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In this episode of Mormon Stories, John and Margi Dehlin sit down with Sharon Beesley, a therapist, writer and former Mormon “mommy blogger,” to explore the evolution of her faith journey in Mormonism.

Sharon was brought into the church as a child in Florida when her mother chose to convert. She discusses the warmth and community she found in her ward there, and the early testimonies that grounded her. Yet her story also weaves through deep loss with the death of her mother, and how that grief initially drew her closer to the Church.

Sharon attended BYU, got married, and set out to live the ideal Mormon lifestyle. Their family ultimately ended up in New York city, where Sharon began to find relationships with people outside the church. With this move, her worldview began to shift as she encountered new ideas about faith, feminism, and authenticity.

Topics Include:

-Growing up Mormon in Florida

-Coping with grief through faith

-Marriage, motherhood, and mixed-faith relationships

Feminism

This episode offers a gentle, wise, and grounding perspective for anyone navigating faith transitions, loss, or rediscovering joy beyond belief.

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

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Welcome to part 20 of our epic series on Dr. John G. Turner’s landmark biography, “Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.”

Things are really heating up as we enter the mid-1830s in the life of Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter-day Saint movement. This episode dives into one of the most controversial and debated episodes in early Mormon history –Joseph’s relationship with Fanny Alger, a young woman employed in the Smith household in Kirtland, Ohio in 1836.

Was it adultery? Was it an early form of plural marriage? Or was it something else entirely –a “scrape”?

Join us for Part 1 of Chapter 18, where we unpack Turner’s detailed treatment of this scandal, explore how it fractured relationships within the early church (especially between Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery), and trace how it shaped the theology of polygamy that would later emerge in Nauvoo.

Please purchase the book ⁠here⁠.

To support this series please donate ⁠here⁠. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.

00:00:00 Introductions00:02:55 How do you pronounce Fanny Alger’s name?00:04:25 New headings to the Doctrine and Covenants00:09:53 The Book of Mormon caveat on polygamy and linking it to the Bible00:13:58 When Joseph Smith met Fanny and when the affair began00:15:35 What do we know about Fanny Alger?00:21:34 Had Joseph not received the keys for sealing in 1836?00:24:12 How does this scandal erupt?00:27:54 Why did it take two years for this all to come out?00:29:16 Levi Hancock background on sealing Joseph to Fanny Alger00:36:02 The nature of the relationship00:40:09 “Dirty nasty filthy affair" vs “scrape”00:45:49 Eliza R. Snow considered Fanny to be Joseph’s first wife00:47:29 Was Joseph Smith trying to justify his feelings for Fanny?00:51:55 Another possible interpretation01:00:08 What happens to Fanny?01:02:58 Fanny’s final testimony on the matter01:07:12 Apostles hear rumors that Joseph has committed adultery01:14:15 The reasons Kirtland collapsed01:19:19 Why this breach between Joseph and Oliver becomes irreparable01:21:44 How Joseph Smith got away with this?01:26:24 One thing that doesn’t seem to have happened is that no one asked Emma01:33:46 Does this make Joseph Smith a fraud?01:45:25 Closing Remarks

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

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Sandra Tanner is back with us on LDS Discussions to conclude our conversation on three new church essays recently published by the LDS Church. In this episode, we’ll finish our coverage of the essay on polygamy and move on to the final essay, which addresses the character of Joseph Smith.

Topics include:

-Joseph’s failed prophecies

-Joseph’s treatment of Emma

-Joseph’s 21 criminal cases

Join us as we unpack these final issues and reflect on what they reveal about Joseph Smith and early church history.

00:00:00 Introduction00:05:32 What did Emma know about JS’s practice of Plural Marriage?00:12:26 If these were righteous marriages, why doesn't the church publicize who the plural wives are?00:27:38 Sharing clips from Julia’s channel - Eliza Snow and the gold watch00:33:24 Next Clip - Joseph’s treatment of Emma00:39:57 How did women experience plural marriage?00:53:45 How did plural marriage end in the church?01:01:34 Next Essay - Joseph Smith’s Character01:11:17 Church claims Joseph “recognized his weaknesses”01:16:15 Discussing Joseph’s failed prophecies01:19:45 What did Joseph’s contemporaries say about his character?01:22:55 Brad Wilcox clip01:26:16 Can a person with flaws still be a prophet?01:34:09 Russell M. Nelson clip01:49:02 If you’re offended by Joseph’s actions you’re not spiritually mature?02:00:05 Discussing Joseph’s 21 criminal cases02:19:27 Did Joseph pay his debts?02:24:24 Did Joseph exercise undue political power?02:34:49 Summarizing the essay on Joseph’s character02:45:11 How to make sense of the conflicting views of Joseph Smith according to the church03:06:44 What grade would we give these essays?03:08:10 Conclusion

___________________

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Show Notes

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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Caroline Barrow was raised in a typical Mormon household in Louisiana. While she was a faithful believer in the Church, she always had questions about certain teachings but was often encouraged to halt her critical thinking on these issues. She chose to attend BYU and serve a Mormon mission, but continued to be plagued by questions—particularly around polygamy and the treatment of women in the LDS faith. Caroline also found herself struggling with scrupulosity, perfectionism, and the many pressures placed on women in the Church.

Listen as she shares her story of how she confronted these questions and learned to trust herself and her instincts as an analytical woman within the Mormon faith.

___________________

Show Notes

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At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

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In part 19 of our deep-dive into Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet by Dr. John G. Turner, we explore the fascinating events surrounding the Kirtland Temple dedication (that took place in 1836) in Kirtland, Ohio.

This episode focuses on Chapter 17, examining key developments in early Latter-day Saint ritual practice –including solemn assemblies, washings and anointings, the washing of feet, and even ritual cleansings (in cinnamon whiskey!). We also discuss internal church conflicts, prophetic authority, spiritual manifestations, and the powerful endowment promises given to early Church leaders.

We also explore Joseph Smith’s institutional genius, visions and heavenly visitations, Hebrew studies and the Adamic language, early temple worship and spiritual ecstacy, and controversies and personal reflections from John Turner’s biography.

Please purchase the book ⁠here⁠.

To support this series please donate ⁠here⁠. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.

00:00:00 Introduction00:03:44 Comment on the case of Lucina Elliott00:11:58 Launching into the conflict in Chapter 17 - William Smith00:18:08 Joshua and Joseph’s study of Hebrew00:30:20 Solemn Assembly in the Kirtland Temple00:33:16 What Joseph did in response to conflict - introduce rituals00:45:46 The origins of the washing and anointing part of the LDS endowment00:59:35 Powerful moment when the First Presidency confessed their sins01:04:34 Visions and the heavens being opened01:10:17 Visitations of Christ, Adam, Abraham, Michael, etc.01:15:35 Kirtland Temple Dedication01:30:08 The practice of speaking in tongues in the 1800s01:36:00 The use of wine during these rituals01:40:49 The washing of feet01:51:36 A vision of Jesus Christ standing at the pulpit in front of them02:08:48 How Dr. John G. Turner ended the chapter02:11:05 Final remarks

___________________

Show Notes

YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 

1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology

2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis

3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today

One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m 

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 

Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories 

Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories 

Join this channel to get access to perks:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join

Our Platforms:

🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 

🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 

✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 

🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 

🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 

📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 

🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF 

Contact us:

📧 [email protected]

📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117