After nearly two centuries of strict modesty standards, the Mormon Church has made a historic change—women’s garments now allow for exposed shoulders. In this in-depth panel, Mormon women unpack the significance of this shift. From the garments' Masonic roots and historical designs to the ways they’ve shaped modesty culture, sexuality, and control over women's bodies, this conversation dives deep. The panel also explores the social media response, health concerns, and the ongoing discomfort many women still face. With personal stories, historical context, and commentary on the new designs, this is a must-watch discussion on a topic rarely spoken about so openly.

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In Part 2 of our story, Kyle opens up about his life growing up in the Two by Twos faith — from a childhood shaped by pressure to "uphold the family name," to navigating chronic illness and suppressing his passions for music and basketball in order to prioritize church. We talk about the expectations around professing young, the control over dating, marriage, and even parenting — including the harmful encouragement of corporal punishment.

As cracks began to form during the COVID-19 pandemic, Kyle and Kari found themselves questioning everything they believed. From hidden doubts, religious trauma, and Kari’s journey of discovering her bisexuality, to the couple’s darkest moments and eventual transformation, this episode dives deep into how they began rebuilding their lives outside the 2x2 world.

We also discuss the emerging abuse allegations within the Two by Twos church, the beginnings of their Ex-Two by Two support group, and the broader fight for transparency and accountability in a faith that claims to have no organization at all. This is a raw, emotional, and revealing chapter of their deconstruction journey.

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Kari & Kyle Hanks share their journey of leaving the secretive 2x2 church, a religious group with no official name, written doctrine, or corporate structure. They discuss their upbringings, struggles with faith, the exclusivity of the religion, and the trauma they endured. From discovering the church’s hidden history to creating a support group for ex-members, they expose abuse scandals, strict doctrines on women, and emotional suppression within the group. Their deconstruction was influenced by the Mormon Stories Podcast, COVID-19, and personal revelations about belief, identity, and autonomy. Now, they advocate for informed consent and support those leaving high-control religions.

Show Notes

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00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:40 Kari & Kyle introduce themselves and the Two by Twos group
00:14:04 They do not have a written doctrine, it is all word of mouth
00:21:59 The founding of Two by Two - founded by William Irving
00:28:28 It wasn’t until 1905 that the group started preaching exclusivity
00:37:52 Irving is kicked out of the church, although some still stay loyal to him. Another splinter group.
00:49:50 Three meetings a week
01:00:46 Background of their theology/doctrine
01:09:02 Discussion of Heaven & Hell
01:17:04 Kari’s background in the church
01:23:17 Growing up as a 2x2 girl
01:30:30 How does the group refer to themselves?
01:38:43 Never having the language to describe her feelings or sexuality
01:42:09 Higher education was discouraged for many, especially women
01:54:17 Emotional manipulation in high demand religions
02:24:47 2x2s very politically conservative, but are not typically involved politically
02:27:08 When did she start to think she was in a cult?

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After five years of reflection, Kate opens up about her journey growing up in a strict Mormon household, serving a mission in Argentina, and working for the LDS Church. She shares pivotal moments of doubt, her experiences in church administration, and the troubling realities she uncovered in the Confidential Records department. From questioning church discipline policies to witnessing firsthand how the institution handles abuse cases, Kate's story reveals the struggles and insights that ultimately led her to leave the church. Join us as she discusses faith, disillusionment, and life after Mormonism.

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On March 12, 2025, Church educator and BYU professor Jared Halverson released an Instagram short where he stated: “One of the statistics that has worried me the most of late, comes from a survey that was done in 2023 and it’s suggesting that for the first time that I can think of, more women are leaving religion than men are.” Is this true? Why are more women leaving Mormonism than men are? Join us today as we gather with Katie Rich (author of Fifty Years of Exponent II), Amy McPhie Allebest (of the Breaking Down Patriarchy YouTube channel), and Abby Maxwell Hansen (who was threatened with excommunication for her profile on Ordain Women in 2013 and an Exponent II blogger since 2019), as well as writer and columnist Jana Riess to discuss this growing phenomenon.

Jared Halverson is an associate professor of Ancient Scriptures and served for over 20 years in the Church Education System. Halverson earned his BA in History and MA in Religious Education. He has been a featured speaker in devotionals as well as in academic settings. He is the host of the YouTube channel and podcast titled “Unshaken.”

You can view Jared Halverson’s original video here.

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Today we are re-introducing Sandra Tanner to a new generation of Mormons, exMormons, and never-Mormons. Both Sandra and her husband Jerald have strong Mormon backgrounds. When he was only eighteen, Jerald began to have doubts about his faith. When they began dating, Sandra Tanner also began to doubt. Throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s Jerald and Sandra Tanner were among the first to begin publishing on the problems with Mormon history and its truth claims. They opened a bookstore called the Utah Lighthouse Ministry and began publishing their research. Today we are going to talk about their discoveries on topics such as changes to the Book of Mormon, the problems with the Book of Abraham translation, the Kinderhook plates, how the Church covered up problematic parts of its history, and how they impacted hundreds of people in and out of the Mormon church. You won’t want to miss this episode!

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After being inspired by the Mormon Stories Paul brothers episode, Dave courageously shares his powerful journey through faith, family struggles, and self-discovery. From his upbringing in a traditional Mormon household to navigating complex questions about church history, LGBTQ+ issues, and personal loss, Dave's story is one of resilience and hope. He reflects on his brother's tragic passing, his evolving beliefs, and why he ultimately chooses to stay active in the church today. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation about faith, doubt, and finding meaning through it all.

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In this episode, we’re joined by historian and mapmaker John Hamer as he responds to Michelle Stone’s recent claims that Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy. Drawing from historical records, primary sources, and his extensive research, John offers context and analysis on one of the most debated topics in Latter-day Saint history. Join us for an insightful conversation unpacking the complexities of Joseph Smith’s involvement in early Mormon polygamy.

John Hamer is an American-Canadian historian who has focused primarily on Mormon history and has published a number of books on the topic, including Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism and House of the Lord: The Story of the Kirtland Temple. John Hamer was raised in the Mormon Church, left the religion and joined the Community of Christ Church in 2010 and now serves as a pastor in their Toronto Congregation.

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New research by PhD student Colby Townsend reveals striking connections between The Book of Mormon and Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary, a widely used biblical resource in Joseph Smith’s time. In this episode, we explore how Smith engaged with Clarke’s insights, made textual modifications, and reframed biblical passages to fit his theological vision. Was Smith restoring lost scripture, or was he influenced by contemporary scholarship?

Show Notes

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00:11:35 Summary of Joseph Smith using the Adam Clarke Commentary

00:17:06 During this time, this is NOT considered plagiarism

00:19:55 The new article by Colby Townsend

00:23:24 Clip of Hayley talking about Joseph Smith using the Bible Commentary

00:29:45 What were we taught about how the Book of Mormon was produced?

00:30:17 Quote from David Whitmer on the translation through the seer stone

00:35:00 The Expansion Theory

00:40:26 Quote from Emma on the Book of Mormon translation

00:42:33 Quote from Martin Harris on it being a direct translation

00:44:00 There is no account from Oliver Cowdery on the translation process; Oliver was also willing to lie

00:44:51 Clip of Brad Wilcox on how the Book of Mormon was translation

00:48:08 Background of Colby Townsend

00:50:08 Quotes from the article

00:57:55 Joseph used other Bible Commentaries

01:02:00 Conclusion from Colby Townsend’s article

01:07:40 Clip of the the Bible not having plain and precious things being removed

01:09:25 Clip - The Book of Mormon is to bring back the things lost from the Bible

01:11:20 2 Nephi 11:2 Nephi talks about the importance of Isaiah

01:22:43 Quote from the Colby’s article about how Joseph was well versed in the Bible

01:24:55 Dan Vogel’s theory about the presence of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon

01:26:14 Colby Townsend discussing Joseph and Methodism

01:29:25 Adam Clarke’s Biblical Commentary

01:33:35 Joseph’s access to Clarke

01:40:00 Comparing The Book of Mormon to the Adam Clarke Commentary

01:49:35 Joseph copying both the KJV and then Adam Clarke’s commentary

01:58:38 Next example in Isaiah 50:2 “their fish is dried up”

02:12:20 The example of Isaiah 2: 12-16 “cedars and oaks” and “high mountains and lofty hills”

02:18:45 Isaiah 9:3 “thou hast increased their joy”

02:24:20 Gerardo found his own examples

02:32:24 Examples in Isaiah 14:3 “in that day”

02:38:59 Isaiah 49:1 “O ye distant lands”

02:48:10 Example Isaiah 29:11 “read it, for it is sealed up”

02:56:50 If this is the most correct book why was so much of it changed?

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In this heartfelt episode, Kevin and Jennifer share their inspiring journey through their Mormon upbringing, missions, and eventual faith transition. They discuss navigating doubts, supporting their gay and transgender children, and redefining what love and family mean. From facing church pressures to embracing authenticity, their story highlights resilience, acceptance, and the power of unconditional love. Don't miss this moving conversation about finding peace and purpose beyond organized religion.

Show Notes

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00:05:25 Kevin’s story begins

00:14:20 Kevin met with general authority Paul H. Dunn to get approved for his mission

00:27:58 Jennifer’s Story begins

00:36:11 They met again with Paull Dunn about getting married in the temple

00:48:38 Defining their own gender roles in their marriage

01:01:18 Concerns with paying tithing

01:09:00 Teenage son struggling with p*rn and coming out as gay

01:17:48 Their gay son decided to serve a mission; he was told his mission will “cure him of his gayness”

01:30:00 Mission president refused to let him go home, and had possession of his passport

01:38:00 Kevin told his son “never try to make the church work for you - it never will”

01:51:55 Their gay son says that if he was not able to leave the mission he may have committed suicide

02:08:50 Their daughter tells them she is done with the church; she experienced love bombing

02:12:50 Kevin asks his mom, “If the church wasn't true would you want to know” - she says no

02:16:50 “If there is a place in the church for my gay son, we will reconsider”

02:30:40 Discussing transgender issues in the church

02:40:48 Why do a lot of ex-Mormons turn to atheism after leaving the church?

02:28:20 Has the way that they see “love” and “family” changed over the years? What do they mean for them now?

02:56:23 Final thoughts

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