People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

In this episode, Andy sits down with Attia Qureshi, a coach and negotiation expert who is co-author, with John Richardson, of Never Settle. There's no shortage of great negotiation advice out there, yet in real conversations with real stakes and real emotions, that advice often fails to turn into action. This book tackles that gap between insight and habit.

Attia shares why emotions are not a distraction from negotiation but central to it, why getting clear about what you actually want is harder than it sounds, and how we leave value on the table without realizing it. You'll hear practical stories, from resetting a difficult relationship with a glass of lemonade to expanding the pie in a salary negotiation, plus small daily exercises for building resilience to rejection and learning to say no in a way that strengthens relationships rather than damaging them.

If you're looking for practical, doable ways to become a more confident negotiator and influencer, this episode is for you!

• "You can get more by caring about what the other person needs and building a strong relational foundation."
• "People are not born amazing negotiators. They develop that skill over time, just like people are not born confident."
• "You have to practice that small step out in the real world where the stakes are low and build that skill day after day, month after month."
• "You and I have probably already negotiated half a dozen times today."
• "When someone gives us something, we want to return the favor."
• "New studies now show that 90 to 95% of decision-making comes from unconscious emotional processing."
• "So many of us quit before we even start."
• "But if we do have a goal and we do prepare for the conversation, our likelihood of success is double."
• "A good negotiation doesn't always mean getting 'yes' at the end of it."
• "I always tell my students, people can almost always help you. It depends on if they want to or not."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:06 Start of Interview
• 02:17 Growing Up: Early Lessons in Conflict
• 07:10 Negotiation and Confidence Are Skills, Not Personality
• 08:04 Life Is Full of Everyday Negotiations
• 10:30 Why Negotiation Training Often Fails
• 12:30 Resetting a Difficult Relationship
• 17:20 Influence vs. Manipulation
• 22:33 Emotions, Fear, and Building Resilience
• 28:00 Using the Emotion Wheel
• 29:36 Getting Clear on What You Really Want
• 33:39 Expanding the Pie: Creating Value
• 40:50 The Power of Saying No
• 47:27 Teaching Kids to Negotiate
• 51:23 End of Interview
• 51:55 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 55:22 Outtakes

You can learn more about Attia and her work at AttiaQureshi.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 157 with Dr. Robert Cialdini. Known as the godfather of influence, his name came up several times during today's discussion, making this a great follow-up.
• Episode 412 with Scott Walker. A former Scotland Yard hostage negotiator who shares a lot of practical lessons about influence.
• Episode 385 with Vanessa Patrick. She wrote one of the best books on how to say no, a fitting companion to today's conversation.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Negotiation, Influence, Leadership, Project Management, Reciprocity, Emotional Intelligence, Resilience, Saying No, Stakeholder Management, Relationship Building, Value Creation, Confidence

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Quantum Sparks (Full Version) by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy sits down with Fred Marshall, entrepreneur, founder of Quantum Learning, and author of Thrive: The Antidote to Future Shock. Fred introduces his Super Eight, eight interconnected areas of life that shape our ability to adapt, lead, and grow in a world of accelerating change.

Together, they explore why doing all the seemingly right things, the endless life hacks, can still leave you feeling off. Fred makes the case that attention is the single variable that governs almost everything, and that you can ignore almost all of the change coming at you and still thrive. You'll hear about managing your neural net, guarding your time with two 90-minute focus blocks, clearing the open loops that clog your thinking, and choosing the relationships and ecosystems that lift you up. Fred also walks through PANDA, a simple five-step method inspired by a panda that helps you stop a mental spiral and regain focus.

If you're looking for a practical, hopeful way to lead through an age of AI and constant change, this episode is for you!

• "You can ignore almost all of it."
• "So everything, everything you look at, every book you read, every text you read, everything you do is shaping your neural net."
• "If you look at that rock, you're gonna hit that rock."
• "Two 90-minute blocks a day is my new normal."
• "If you want time to go fast, turn on your computer, open your iPad, or look at your phone."
• "An open loop is something that needs to get done, that's not done yet, that's still taking up space in your head."
• "The worst thing is to think of something when you can't act on it."
• "The people you surround yourself with have an enormous impact on your life and how you think and how everything unfolds, and it's probably the most important choice you make is who you hang out with."
• "If you develop relationships with people in a growing ecosystem, you're gonna have a great career, you're gonna have a great life."
• "I want to prepare people so that it's, it's more of surfing a big wave rather than getting overwhelmed by a tsunami."
• "And I think if you're in your head and you're spiraling, getting out of your head and into action is how you really close the loop."
• "But if you can just stop for a second and give that person your full attention, even if it's just for a minute, it's so powerful."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:47 Start of Interview
• 02:00 Getting to Know Fred
• 04:29 What Most People Get Wrong About Change
• 06:29 Designing Your Life
• 08:03 The Life Hack Paradox
• 08:34 Attention: The Single Variable
• 10:20 The Super Eight and the Neural Net
• 13:00 Guarding Your Time: Fred 3.0
• 15:38 Take Care of Your Cells
• 16:09 Rethinking Sleep and Open Loops
• 17:46 Minimum Viable Exercise
• 21:23 The PANDA Method
• 26:22 Designing Your Relationships
• 28:32 Riding Growing Ecosystems
• 31:00 Building Systems for the Future
• 34:12 Applying It at Home
• 36:48 End of Interview
• 37:19 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 40:32 Outtakes

You can learn more about Fred and his work at thrivefutureyou.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 437 with Nada Sanders. A conversation about future-prepping your career in the age of AI.
• Episode 382 with Hal Hershfield. Ideas from his book Your Future Self that remain completely relevant to our times today.
• Episode 313 with futurist Brian David Johnson. A discussion that changed how Andy thinks about trying to predict the future.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Artificial Intelligence, Change Management, Leadership, Attention, Focus, Productivity, Resilience, Relationships, Systems Thinking, Future of Work

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy sits down with Cornelia Choe, leadership advisor and founder of global CEO peer groups, author of The Panoramic Leader: How Great Leaders See Differently, co-authored with Marshall Goldsmith. Cornelia's core idea is that the "mental maps" we form early in life quietly shape how we lead today, and that our decisions are only as good as the world we're actually able to see.

Andy and Cornelia explore why so many new executives fail within their first 18 months, what she calls a visibility problem rather than an execution problem. They dig into practical tools: microtranslations for sharing ideas others can absorb, optimistic fear that lets us move forward without ignoring real risk, and the balcony-and-dance-floor balance of perspective and proximity. Cornelia also shares how getting up close to stakeholders, and even to her own kids, opens up options we couldn't see before.

If you're looking for practical ways to see more clearly and make better decisions in an uncertain world, this episode is for you!

• "And the truth is, sometimes the problem is not that we lack data, it's that we're not seeing broadly enough."
• "And if you truly believe something, stick with it, keep it on your map, and have the courage to go through with it."
• "But the problem is it's no longer enough to be right in today's world, and having an incomplete picture is just as dangerous as getting it wrong."
• "Optimistic fear is the ability to keep the risks and the danger in mind, yet to still go forward and to use our fear to fuel our momentum going forward."
• "We don't need to have everything solved, but just getting up close can reward us with a lot of options."
• "I mean, in some ways you could argue that our brain's autopilot is not a bug, it's a feature."
• "You don't have to accept everything you hear or everything your stakeholders tell you, but we do need to think about it and, in a thoughtful way, choose to accept it or not."
• "And in a world that's constantly changing, this is going to be an even more crucial skill because your decisions are only as good as the world you see, and the most successful leaders learn to see more in today's world."
• "It's just a good reminder to me that a smart, well-intentioned person can see situations quite differently."
• "Our identity is created by the people around us, the people who share their perspectives with, and the perspectives that we allow to become part of our mental maps."
• "I heard someone once say that we're all driven by just a few lines of code that run in the background, and as a former software developer, I can relate to that."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 02:00 How Early Life Experiences Shape Our Maps
• 07:50 Why New Executives Fail in the First 18 Months
• 12:20 Microtranslations
• 16:01 Optimistic Fear vs. Pessimistic Fear
• 21:53 Keeping Curiosity Alive and Getting Off Autopilot
• 25:59 How We React When Our Map Is Challenged
• 29:25 The Balcony and the Dance Floor
• 34:41 How Our Circles Shape and Narrow Our Maps
• 38:33 Panoramic Leadership at Home
• 41:20 End of Interview
• 41:57 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 45:00 Outtakes

You can learn more about Cornelia and her work at substack.com/@corneliachoe.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 489 with Marty Dubin. It's a book about blind spots and how they can easily derail us, an excellent complement to this discussion.
• Episode 318 with John Stepper. He's the author of Working Out Loud, and his approach to developing people has a lot of similarities to the leader circles that Cornelia runs.
• Episode 54 with Roger L. Martin. Roger is often in the top 10 of the Thinkers50, and we talk about how you can hold opposing ideas at the same time, very aligned with this book.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Decision-Making, Mental Models, Stakeholder Engagement, Perspective, Curiosity, Self-Awareness, Change, Psychological Safety, Executive Effectiveness, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy welcomes back Marcus Buckingham, bestselling author and researcher, to discuss his new book, Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business. For 25 years, Marcus studied the most productive teams, loyal customers, and effective leaders in the world, and the word that kept appearing in his data was one he kept changing: love.

Andy and Marcus explore what love actually means in a business context, including how leaders are really experience makers whether they know it or not. You will hear the remarkable story of Josh D'Amaro, the CEO of Disney, and what his leadership reveals about designing love into a team's daily experience. Marcus unpacks the five feelings that lead people to say they love working for a leader, starting with something counterintuitive: control. The conversation also covers tough love, AI's limits as an experience maker, and how these principles can transform how we lead our families too.

If you're looking for a fresh, evidence-based look at what drives sustained high performance, this episode is for you!

• "I kept hearing that word (love) and shame on me, but I did keep changing it because I felt like it was a careless exaggeration of the word like or something."
• "Don't keep changing the word (love). The word's the word. The question really should be why and how do we replicate it?"
• "You're paid to change behavior. That's all you're paid to do. You're not paid to run a project. You're paid to change behavior as a leader."
• "When you send an email, it's not an email. It's an experience for the person on the other end. When you call that team meeting, it's not a team meeting. It's an experience."
• "You join a company and then you quit your boss."
• "Undesigned experiences lead to unpredictable outcomes."
• "It's cowardly, not loving. It's cowardly to leave them in that job."
• "I am for you. I am for you. That doesn't always mean that I am going to tell you what you wanna hear. It means I want you to flourish."
• "Loving's an ingredient, right? Loving isn't, 'Be nicer.' Loving's like, 'What are you trying to do for me?'"
• "The beginning of love is rules. The beginning of love is clarity."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 01:57 Why Marcus Spent Decades Avoiding the Word "Love"
• 05:47 Misconceptions About Love in Business
• 11:29 Inside the "Josh Effect"
• 18:02 What Great Leaders Don't Do
• 22:13 Local Leadership and Variation in Team Experience
• 27:54 When Senior Leaders Couldn't Say the Word
• 31:04 Applying the "Is This Loving or Unloving?" Lens
• 37:43 Tough Love and Difficult Performance Conversations
• 46:20 Practical Takeaways: The Five Feelings of Love
• 50:25 AI and the Role of Love in Leadership
• 56:34 Designing Love Into Parenting and Family
• 1:01:26 End of Interview
• 1:01:57 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 1:05:03 Outtakes

You can learn more about Marcus and his work at BuckinghamInstitute.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 252, which is our earlier interview with Marcus Buckingham. That book still impacts how Andy leads years after having Marcus on the first time.
• Episode 332 with Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel. A discussion about keeping your teams engaged and connected, even if they're not co-located.
• Episode 324 with Jim Harter. Jim is the Chief Scientist at Gallup and they have an insightful discussion about building resilient and thriving teams.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Love in Business, Team Culture, Employee Engagement, Customer Experience, Project Management, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting, Organizational Culture, Experience Design

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy welcomes back Steve Kahle, entrepreneur, executive, and fractional CIO, author of Leadership Recall: Harness Insights. Accelerate Innovation. LEAD WITH AUTHORITY. Steve first joined the podcast in episode 184 to discuss email overload. This time, the conversation turns to a challenge every leader faces: the forgetting curve. Research suggests we forget up to 83% of what we learn within a week, and Steve argues this is not just a learning problem, it's a leadership problem.

Steve shares his CCR framework (Capture, Catalog, and Recall), along with practical tools such as the Anki flashcard app and the Email Me voice-note app, to build what he calls a learning operating system. The discussion covers how to design a recall fitness practice in as little as three minutes a day and how removing friction at every step keeps the system sustainable.

If you're looking for a practical system to stop letting great insights slip away and start leading with more authority, this episode is for you!

• "I think God put in my heart to be a relentless optimizer. I like to see things work and work well."
• "When you really zoom out in life, those who are really successful have figured out what are the frameworks, what are the methodologies that work, and they simply apply those."
• "Our subconscious mind can handle about 11 million bits of data per second, but about 40 bits conscious mind."
• "I went all in. Christ totally transformed my heart, and I'm realizing that scripture memory is a superpower."
• "Time swiftly washes away the obvious."
• "Learning really is a privilege, and we need to be able to find time that works with our daily rhythms."
• "Three minutes a day is really all you need to be able to see tremendous traction on being able to recall things that matter"
• "Instead of 'I'm bad at remembering names,' you could, do a reframe like, 'Hey, I'm getting better at remembering people's names.'"

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 02:06 Early Experiences and the Instinct to Remember
• 04:08 Is Memory a Natural Gift or a Trainable Skill?
• 05:19 Forgetting as a Feature, Not Just a Bug
• 07:10 The Leadership Cost of Forgetting
• 09:10 Shifting the Bottleneck from Input to Retention
• 12:02 The Five-Hour Rule and Three Learning Archetypes
• 14:19 The CCR Framework in Practice: Capture, Catalog, and Recall
• 19:50 Removing Friction from Your Learning System
• 23:23 Inside Anki: Cloze Deletions and Building Cards
• 26:10 Organizing Your Recall Decks
• 27:30 Real-World Results: When Readers Apply the System
• 28:56 Building Recall Habits in Your Kids
• 32:50 How to Get the Book
• 34:01 End of Interview
• 34:17 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 37:46 Outtakes

You can learn more about Steve and his work at leadershiprecall.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 184 with Steve Kahle. It's our previous conversation about keeping your head above water when drowning in email and commitments. Definitely recommend checking it out.
• Episode 411 with Laura Mae Martin. She's the head of productivity at Google and shares ideas that I still use to this day.
• Episode 376 with Nick Sonnenberg. It's a book about helping you and your team stop drowning in all the information and commitments at work.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Memory, Learning, Productivity, Knowledge Management, Recall, Spaced Repetition, Personal Development, Continuous Learning, Networking, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy welcomes Dr. John La Puma, a board-certified internal medicine physician, professionally trained chef, regenerative organic farmer, and two-time New York Times bestselling author of The Indoor Epidemic.

Did you know most of us spend about 93% of our lives indoors? Dr. John makes the case, backed by more than 2,200 studies, that where we spend our time may matter just as much as the soft skills and productivity systems we so often focus on. In this conversation, Andy and Dr. John dig into what he calls digital obesity and analog wellness, the science of morning sunlight and circadian rhythm, why looking at the horizon for just one minute per hour can improve focus and eye health, and what forest bathing actually does to your immune system. They also explore loneliness as a health crisis, the social dimension of outdoor time, and practical ways to build a 17-minute daily nature habit that doesn't require moving to Santa Barbara.

If you're looking for science-backed ways to boost your energy, focus, and long-term wellbeing, this episode is for you!

• "Digital obesity is when you consume more pixels than you can metabolize."
• "What people don't understand about this is that it's not a character flaw, that it's a biological mismatch."
• "People don't appreciate that nature is actually social, and that social part is good for you."
• "And loneliness is what? 15 cigarettes a day in mortality."
• "Nature works through your senses. You touch, you listen, you see, you smell, you taste."
• "You have a 56% higher function and number of natural killer cells because you are in the company of trees that are making these chemicals, alpha-pinene, D-limonene in citrus trees, many other trees, that improve your ability to kill tumor cells and kill virus infected cells."
• "But immersion in the forest means that you're immersing your senses in it, and the forest is, is the therapist, and the walk is the therapy."
• "Rest is actually self-preservation and capital investment."
• "Often you can upgrade the thinking in a room just by opening a window."
• "But you don't need a forest, and you don't need a park even. You just need a sky view."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:56 Start of Interview
• 02:06 Background: Origins of the Indoor Epidemic
• 07:03 Digital Obesity and Analog Wellness
• 10:33 Dr. John's Morning Outdoor Routine
• 13:21 The Benefits of Looking at the Horizon
• 17:22 Experiencing Vastness and Awe
• 22:47 Forest Bathing: More Than Just a Walk
• 24:32 Walking Habits and Nature Recalibration
• 26:52 Loneliness and Outdoor Social Connection
• 30:04 Practical Tips for Parents
• 32:03 End of Interview
• 32:39 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 35:15 Outtakes

You can learn more about Dr. John and his work at drjohnlapuma.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 461 with Dr. Patricia Grabarek. We talk about why our typical approaches to wellness are missing the mark.
• Episode 421 with Dr. Bijoy John. He's a practicing sleep doctor and I think you'll find some practical ideas from our discussion.
• Episode 200 with Jeffrey Pfeffer. He's the author of a book entitled Dying for a Paycheck and I think you'll find his insights challenging enough to look at work differently.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Nature, Digital Obesity, Analog Wellness, Productivity, Loneliness, Forest Bathing, Morning Sunlight, Wellbeing, Leadership, Sleep

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: On Point by Steven OBrien License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Stephen Shapiro, innovation expert and author of You're Not Playing With a Full Deck: Why the People Who Drive You Crazy Are Your Unfair Advantage. Stephen's journey starts with a costly failure: a $30 million innovation project at Accenture that fell apart, not from a lack of talent, but because everyone on the team thought the same way.

Out of that failure came a framework built around a familiar metaphor: a deck of cards. Stephen introduces four distinct personality styles tied to the four suits and explains why teams missing certain suits are setting themselves up to struggle, even when everyone is smart and capable. In this conversation, you'll hear why unanimous agreement is actually a warning sign, how strengths can quietly sabotage performance when overplayed, and why the people who drive you crazy may be exactly who your team needs. Andy and Stephen also explore what the rise of AI means for the uniquely human qualities that only certain suits can provide.

If you're looking for a fresh, practical framework to build stronger teams and unlock better results, this episode is for you!

• "We were smart people. We had smart people on the team, and we somehow failed miserably."
• "I realized I was the problem. And it wasn't just me, it was the way we constructed the team."
• "Anytime you have everybody agreeing, that's a warning sign."
• "I actually think the bigger enemy of innovation is, 'Wow, this is a great idea!' because then what ends up happening is we believe it's a great idea."
• "It's less of a personality test and more of an opportunity to just stimulate some conversation that typically doesn't happen inside of organizations."
• "Left to their own devices, diverse teams perform terribly."
• "So it's not just diversity, it's diversity plus appreciation."
• "I try to make it very clear to AI: don't agree with me!"
• "Part of this is who are we really versus who did we become?"
• "There's a difference between a strength and a strong suit. A strength means you're good at it. A strong suit means you're good at it and it energizes you because it's who you are at your core."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:25 Start of Interview
• 01:37 When Teaming Started Going Wrong
• 02:52 Recognizing the Real Root Cause
• 03:38 Choosing Your Team Members
• 04:45 Similarity vs. Genuine Trust
• 06:00 A Real-World Team Turnaround
• 07:51 Overcoming Resistance to Difference
• 09:04 The Origin of the Card-Based Framework
• 10:47 When Strengths Become Liabilities
• 13:10 Warning Signs of Strengths Gone Wild
• 16:03 Meeting Personalities and How to Balance Them
• 22:00 How AI Changes the Human Equation on Teams
• 23:45 Which Personality Suits Are Hardest for AI to Replace
• 24:53 How Stephen Uses AI in His Own Work
• 26:18 Applying the Framework Outside of Work
• 29:42 End of Interview
• 30:20 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 33:36 Outtakes

You can learn more about Stephen and his work at StephenShapiro.com/fulldeck.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 286 with Ruth Pearce. Ruth wrote a book about the power of character strengths, and she definitely comes at it through the lens of project managers. Check out episode 286 to learn more.
• Episode 283 with Tom Rath. Tom is the StrengthsFinder guy and it's an engaging discussion that goes beyond personality to what he thinks is the most important question you need to be asking.
• Episode 489 with Martin Dubin. It's an intriguing discussion about blind spots that, if you haven't already listened to, I highly recommend.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Team Building, Leadership, Cognitive Diversity, Collaboration, Innovation, Project Management, Meeting Effectiveness, Personality Frameworks, AI, Human Potential, Self-Awareness, Strengths, Organizational Culture

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy welcomes Rebecca Hinds, organizational behavior researcher and author of Your Best Meeting Ever. Rebecca brings a behavioral science lens to one of the most persistent pain points in modern work: meetings that multiply, linger, and drain rather than deliver.

Andy and Rebecca explore the concept of meeting debt, and why reducing meeting volume often matters far more than optimizing agendas. They discuss why meetings have become status symbols and performance art, how a simple social contract makes it nearly impossible to decline an invite, and what meeting minimalism actually means (hint: it's not about ruthless efficiency). Rebecca shares practical ideas, like calendar cleanses, Return on Time Invested (ROTI) ratings, and unexpected guardrails, including the fascinating case of the 27-minute meeting. They also wrestle with AI's potential to either genuinely improve meeting culture or simply make expensive, inefficient meetings feel more productive.

If you're looking for a research-backed, practical guide to finally taking back your calendar, this episode is for you!

• "Why do we cling to this practice that has largely remained unchanged for decades and decades, and yet we know, we're highly aware that it's highly inefficient and dysfunctional."
• "It's ironic and unfortunate that we now consider so many of these dysfunctional practices, so many of these tactics as business as usual."
• "We tend to associate visibility with value and presence with productivity. A packed calendar is a very clear indication that you are busy, you're important, and you have high status within the organization."
• "Meetings are the most important product in our entire organization, and yet also the least optimized."
• "Meeting debt is so bad that it's not worth it to tinker at the edges and try to optimize the meetings that already exist because fundamentally, many of them should not exist in the first place."
• "Return on Time Invested (ROTI) is a concept I learned from my colleague Elise Keith. It asks people to rate the effectiveness of a meeting on a scale of zero to five based on whether this meeting was well worth it in terms of the time invested."
• "I don't mean efficiency for efficiency's sake, right? The goal isn't to make our meetings ruthlessly efficient at all costs."
• "He was tasked with running these 30-minute meetings. He was seeing them drag on and on rather than make the meeting longer, he made them exactly 27 minutes, and that jolted people out of autopilot."
• "What we're seeing in meetings overwhelmingly is people using AI to cognitively offload the work that they should be doing as humans."
• "I continue to believe there's nothing that communicates your leadership more clearly than being able to run a good meeting, but also being able to steer a bad meeting back on track because people very quickly make the cognitive jump that if you can lead a meeting, if you can lead a meeting back on track, you can probably lead a team, you can probably lead a project, you can maybe lead a function."
• "And the reverse is also true. If you can't lead a good meeting, it doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence in your ability to lead anything bigger."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:27 Start of Interview
• 01:36 Rebecca's Background and Journey
• 02:51 The Meeting Sabotage Manual
• 04:38 Meetings as Status Symbols and Performance Art
• 07:30 Meeting Debt: Why Reducing Volume Comes First
• 10:12 Calendar Cleanses: Wiping the Slate Clean
• 11:28 Guardrails Against Meeting Bloat
• 14:30 Better Meeting Metrics: Return on Time Invested
• 17:34 Meeting Minimalism: What It Really Means
• 18:43 Minimalism in Practice
• 21:30 AI and Meeting Culture
• 27:50 Changing Meeting Culture Without Full Authority
• 32:06 End of Interview
• 32:39 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 35:34 Outtakes

You can learn more about Rebecca and her work at RebeccaHinds.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 503 with Evan Unger. Evan shares some helpful ideas on leading better decision-making meetings.
• Episode 246 with Steven Rogelberg. Steven is a leading meeting researcher whose work also appears in Rebecca's book.
• Episode 72 with Steven Rogelberg. An earlier conversation with this leading meeting researcher.
• Episode 245 with Elise Keith. Elise shares some practical insights on how to make meetings more effective.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Meeting Culture, Meeting Debt, Meeting Facilitation, Return on Time Invested, Organizational Behavior, Leadership, Project Management, Behavioral Science, Meeting Minimalism, AI and Meetings, Team Productivity

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Ashley Herd, HR and legal leader turned management coach, and author of The Manager Method. Ashley has led HR and legal teams at organizations like McKinsey and Yum Brands, and she brings a refreshingly real-talk approach to the challenges every manager faces, especially those quiet moments of self-doubt that come with growing responsibility.

In this conversation, you'll hear Ashley's take on why imposter feelings are so common among thoughtful leaders, and how her concept of the "career quilt" reframes even the most uncomfortable professional experiences. She introduces her simple but powerful Pause, Consider, Act framework, which is a practical tool for navigating tough management moments without reacting on instinct. You'll also hear how the language we use about people shapes the way we lead them, why delegation is harder than it looks, and how accountability can be reframed as a positive force on your team. Ashley even shares how Pause, Consider, Act has made her a better parent.

If you're looking for a grounded, practical guide to leading people well (without burning yourself out) this episode is for you!

• "We all have our career quilts. And sometimes those are different, like different jobs, actual different experiences like that."
• "I felt very much like the other at McKinsey."
• "When you open up and show that you are real, you tend to gain the trust and respect that you're so afraid you'll lose if you do that."
• "People don't care that you know the message. They want to hear the message for themselves."
• "What would I want to have happen to me if I were in the other person's shoes?"
• "A rolling stone gathers stress, not moss."
• "Just thinking about the people that are doing a lot of the work, how you treat them and talk with and about them? That can shape a lot of the outcomes."
• "Tasks can quietly become symbols of our value."
• "When you treat your people well, they are a better parent, friend, relative."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:17 Start of Interview
• 02:45 What's A Leadership Experience That Shaped You?
• 05:27 The Career Quilt Concept
• 07:47 Imposter Phenomenon in Leadership
• 11:45 Spotlight Effect and How We Worry About Being Watched
• 14:10 Introducing Pause, Consider, Act
• 15:05 What Pausing Actually Looks Like
• 21:30 Empathy Without Carrying Too Much
• 23:47 Rethinking Empathy
• 25:40 How Language Shapes How We Lead People
• 28:52 The Delegation Trap
• 30:33 What Ashley Still Struggles to Delegate
• 33:15 Reframing Accountability
• 38:10 Applying the Book Outside of Work
• 39:43 End of Interview
• 40:22 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 43:20 Outtakes

You can learn more about Ashley and her work at ManagerMethod.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 468 with James Turk. It's a discussion about what to do during the first 45 days when you take on new responsibility.
• Episode 467 with Sabina Nawaz. She was a coach to Microsoft leaders, such as Bill Gates, and she shares insights that, according to her, no one tells you about becoming a boss.
• Episode 142 with Amy Cuddy. Amy is most famous for her TED Talk on power posing. But episode 142 is more about presence and how you can more confidently rise to the most daunting challenges. It's a nice follow-up to what Ashley talked about with the imposter phenomenon.

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Management, Imposter Phenomenon, Delegation, Accountability, Empathy, Team Culture, Communication, Self-Awareness, New Managers, Personal Growth, Psychological Safety

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Underground Shadows by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license