In this episode, Andy talks with Wharton economist Judd Kessler, author of Lucky by Design: The Hidden Economics You Need to Get More of What You Want. If you have ever looked at someone else's career success and thought, "They just got lucky," this conversation will give you a new lens. Judd introduces the idea of "hidden markets," the informal rules and systems that shape who gets opportunities, access, and scarce resources, even when money is not changing hands.

They explore how leaders can evaluate allocation rules using Judd's three Es (equitable, efficient, and easy), why first come, first served "races" often reward availability more than merit, and how waiting lists can quietly shift costs onto the people least able to pay them. You will also hear Judd's "settle for silver" strategy, a practical way to make smarter choices in competitive markets, plus a thoughtful parenting angle on teaching kids to notice rules and incentives early.

If you're looking for a fresh, research-backed perspective on how hidden rules shape who gets opportunities at work and in life, this episode is for you!

• "The goal of the book is to get people to start to recognizing these markets all around us."
• "In most of these markets, they play by a simple rule that we all understand, which is if you're willing to pay for the thing, then you get it."
• "Is the way that we're deciding who gets what... is it equitable? Is it efficient? And is it easy for market participants?"
• "I open my calendar and I see all these recurring meetings on my calendar, recurring meetings that were set up years or months ago. That's first in time, first in right."
• "If you understand the rules and develop strategies to get what you want from the market, then you actually can be one of the handful that actually gets the thing, that desirable outcome, and then it will look like you got lucky."
• "It's always going to be the folks who are in the market winning who are always going to think that it's fair."
• "Once you start thinking like, how am I actually allocating these things? That's when you've put on that market designer hat."
• "They'll come to you kind of with half-baked ideas because they know if they wait later on until they can fully bake the idea that the resources or the fun parts of the project might already be gone."
• "Part of what the Settle for Silver / Go for Gold Strategy is forcing you to do, is to think seriously about what you want and why you want it."
• "You, as a parent, you are designing the markets that your kids play in all the time."
• "We're not breaking the rules, but we are figuring out what they are so that we can put ourselves in a good position, and that's going to serve you well."
• "Maybe by being in the office, you are signaling your dedication to the firm that you're available for all of these opportunities."
• "If it's something that anybody can do, like send a quick email, right? That's, it's not actually costly. Anybody could send that email even if they're not truly dedicated and eager for the opportunity."
• "You cannot get all three E's for sure in any allocation mechanism. There's always going to be tradeoffs."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:41 Start of Interview
• 01:49 Growing Up and Thinking About Luck
• 03:00 Introducing Hidden Markets
• 07:10 The Three E's: Equitable, Efficient, and Easy
• 08:08 Live Event Tickets as a Case Study
• 12:50 High Frequency Trading and Hidden Races
• 15:21 Common Misunderstandings of the Three E's
• 17:04 Races Inside Organizations and Project Teams
• 20:25 Proximity, Signaling, and Opportunity at Work
• 23:03 Are We Selecting for the Right Behavior?
• 25:41 Stepping Back to Evaluate Your Own Systems
• 25:52 Colorado River Water Rights and Recurring Meetings
• 29:09 The Settle for Silver Strategy
• 30:57 The French Laundry Reservation Story
• 32:51 Settle for Silver in College Admissions
• 37:22 Helping Kids Recognize Rules and Incentives
• 41:03 End of Interview
• 41:32 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 44:34 Outtakes

You can learn more about Judd and his work at JuddBKessler.com/book.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 265, a short video episode Andy put together about the topic of luck. Check it out!
• Episode 339 with Katy Milkman. Katy is the person who gave Andy the heads-up about Judd's book. In episode 339, they talk about her book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be. It's a great discussion with another researcher who knows how to make the learning practical for all of us.
• Episode 372 with Annie Duke. Annie is a former world champion poker player who is a big fan of Judd's book. How does a poker player think about luck? Check out episode 372 to find out!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Luck, Hidden Markets, Behavioral Economics, Leadership, Decision Making, Resource Allocation, Organizational Design, Career Strategy, Signaling, Systems Thinking, Equity, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Joe Ferraro, host of the One Percent Better podcast and a coach who helps leaders have stronger conversations when the stakes are high. If you lead projects, you know how quickly a meeting, a status update, or a feedback moment can either build trust or quietly drain it.

Joe shares small, practical moves that make conversations more memorable and more useful. You will hear why being "good at talking" is not the same as being good at conversation, and how preparation can be a generous act toward the other person. They also discuss how to avoid default, predictable questions, how to turn a one-way presentation into something more interactive, and how to keep your composure when you feel defensive. Joe even offers a simple technique for pressure testing ideas without starting a fight, plus a listening cue you can use the next time you feel tempted to jump in.

If you're looking for insights on having better conversations that save projects and strengthen relationships, this episode is for you!

• "And you know what's a great barometer there is for people listening to ask themselves on a daily basis? How many questions do they ask?"
• "But the reality is a generous conversation is one where you're prepared."
• "And the easiest path, the simplest path is to ask more questions and then listen, like your life depends on it."
• "The human ear driving, or on the treadmill or in a board meeting doesn't want to hear the same length answer every time from Andy or Joe or Sheila."
• "If you feel like you're bursting at the seams and you need to share something, that's when you know to hold it in and to focus on them."
• "I teach people the technique of inserting devil's advocate, where you, you don't wanna necessarily become the villain, but you say, you know, Andy, you know, it's a great point."
• "But when I go back to, to Mitch Albom one time, he paused seven seconds before I asked him, before he answered the question."
• "If you have a recorded conversation, simply ask it to pull out every question that was asked."
• "My favorite question to ask is the one that I think will elicit the best response for what I'm interested in learning in this moment."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:44 Start of Interview
• 02:04 When Conversation Became More Than Talking
• 04:32 Curiosity as a Practical Advantage
• 05:47 Sending Questions Ahead of Time
• 06:49 Why Most Real Conversations Feel Like Improv
• 07:40 A Recent Conversation Joe Still Thinks About
• 09:44 What Makes a Conversation Actually Memorable
• 11:14 How Joe's Background Shaped His Approach
• 12:47 Breaking the Habit of Predictable Answers
• 13:54 The Risk of Chasing "Standard" Questions
• 15:16 Using Recording as a Growth Tool
• 16:29 How to Build Better Listening Discipline
• 18:38 Turning a One-Way Presentation Into Conversation
• 20:12 What to Do When You Need Real Buy-In
• 21:44 The Listening Cue to Use When You Want to Jump In
• 23:34 Helping Others Feel Heard Without Hijacking the Moment
• 24:30 Staying Composed When You Feel Defensive
• 27:27 Using "Devil's Advocate" Without Becoming the Villain
• 30:15 When the Best Move Is to Pause
• 32:25 How to Ask Questions That Create Better Stories
• 33:43 The Question That Fits the Moment
• 36:19 What Joe Thinks People Get Wrong About "Small Talk"
• 39:12 Interviewers Joe Thinks More People Should Study
• 45:13 Using AI to Improve Your Conversations
• 49:20 What Joe Sees Changing in Communication Skills
• 50:00 Helping Kids Build Conversational Stamina
• 53:26 Where to Learn More About Joe
• 54:42 End of Interview
• 55:08 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 57:56 Outtakes

You can learn more about Joe and his work here:

• OnePercentBetterProject.com
• Joe on X
• Joe on LinkedIn

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 380 with Monica Guzman. It's about navigating stressful conversations with people you don't agree with.
• Episode 284 with Peter Boghossian. It's another episode on conversations that seem impossible. Think of difficult bosses and other stakeholders.
• Episode 195 with Celeste Headlee. She's an NPR anchor who first introduced me to the idea of conversational narcissism.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader, that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Communication, Difficult Conversations, Active Listening, Stakeholder Management, Leadership Presence, Psychological Safety, Meeting Facilitation, Coaching, Feedback, Influence, Conflict Management, Relationship Building

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Richard Carson, author of The Book of Change. If you feel like you barely finish one change before the next one hits, this conversation is for you. Richard shares his deeply researched and battle-tested framework called People Sustained Organizational Change Management, or PSOCM. Unlike many change management books, this is not about certifications or slogans. It is about building a repeatable system to diagnose problems, distinguish adaptive from transformational change, and gain executive traction when support is not automatic.

You will hear why so many change efforts fail before they even begin, how to craft a clear problem statement, and what leaders often misunderstand about the type of change they are facing. Richard also explains why he chose the phrase "People Sustained" and how thinking structurally about change can even help at home.

If you're looking for practical, grounded insights on leading through continuous change, this episode is for you!

• "My advice to you is to anticipate change and manage change before it manages you."
• "Different change models have been introduced in the literature, but there has not been one coherent model for managing organizational change."
• "PSOCM is driven by defined actions with statistical metrics that produce measurable results."
• "You get a free book and the next thing you know you're getting the pitch to hire them at an exorbitant amount of money per hour."
• "Organizations consist of people, and it is the people who are primarily the problem."
• "Change management is proactive. Emergency management is reactive."
• "It is not productive to put the organization on the couch and ask, 'Well, what do you think?'"
• "You can change a process, but you cannot change a person's underlying psychology."
• "You now own it, or it now owns you."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:40 Start of Interview
• 01:54 Family Culture and Early Influences
• 03:58 Criticisms of Change Management Books and Certifications
• 06:15 Defining Organizational Change Management in Plain Talk
• 07:44 What Surprised Him in the History of Change
• 10:57 Adaptive vs. Transformational Change
• 14:23 Why He Named It People Sustained Organizational Change Management
• 20:03 Problem Identification and Writing Effective Problem Statements
• 24:31 Getting Executive Support When Change Is Not Top Down
• 26:49 When Benefits Do Not Move Leaders
• 28:21 One More Idea to Anticipate Change Before It Manages You
• 30:03 Applying Change Lessons at Home as a Parent
• 31:36 End of Interview
• 32:38 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 35:31 Outtakes

You can learn more about Richard and his work at RichardCarson.org. Make sure to get the free ebook download.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 343 with Gary Lloyd. He has a clever metaphor of thinking about change like a gardener, not a mechanic. It's a great discussion that I think you'll find quite practical.
• Episode 344 with Peter Bregman and Howie Jacobson. Their book is about change, but not at the organizational level. They think you can change other people, which sounds presumptuous at the least. But they back that up in the interview so check out episode 344 for more.
• Episode 53 with John Kotter. He's one of the most famous names when it comes to change management. Go way back to episode 53 to hear from John directly.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader—that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Change Management, Organizational Change, Leadership, Executive Sponsorship, Problem Identification, Adaptive Change, Transformational Change, Strategic Thinking, Organizational Culture, Project Leadership, Continuous Improvement, Stakeholder Engagement

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Lullaby of Light feat Cory Friesenhan by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

In this In the Trenches episode, Andy talks with Norman Patnode, Principal at ProChain Solutions, about what it really takes to deliver projects faster and more predictably. With a background in aerospace engineering, the Air Force, and decades of consulting, Norman brings a systems-level perspective to project delivery that goes far beyond managing task lists.

They explore the difference between task management and project management, why critical chain thinking shifts the conversation from dates to priorities, and how changing a few key rules can dramatically improve delivery performance. Norman shares why "prioritize, focus, and finish" is more than a slogan, how multitasking quietly robs teams of productivity, and what leaders can do to create clarity and alignment. You'll also hear insights about managing constraints, learning how to learn, and why curiosity is one of the most valuable leadership traits.

If you're looking for practical, systems-based ways to improve delivery and reduce chaos on your projects, this episode is for you!

• "Critical chain is a system to help you get projects done faster and more predictably."
• "Critical chain is really about how do we help people prioritize, focus, and finish."
• "I would never go back to what I was doing before. It has ruined me. I just wouldn't live in that world again."
• "Multitasking robs project teams of anywhere from 15 to 65% of their productivity."
• "If there are no priorities, then really none of them are important."
• "The focus is not on getting to a perfect schedule. It's on creating and strengthening alignment of the team's effort."
• "Reality is undefeated."
• "Any system has a very few number of constraints, usually one."
• "If you manage the constraint, you manage the system."
• "You don't have to learn everything. You just have to be curious and learn how to learn."
• "Big, impactful things in the world get done through projects."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:33 Start of Interview
• 01:41 Norman's Current Role and Responsibilities
• 02:20 Norman's Career Journey
• 07:00 Task Management vs. True Project Management
• 10:40 Introducing Critical Chain
• 15:41 Common Objections to Critical Chain
• 17:20 Changing the Rules to Improve Delivery
• 22:56 A Powerful Leadership Habit
• 25:54 Career Lessons and Critical Turning Points
• 31:32 How Norman Continues to Develop Himself
• 35:53 How to Connect with Norman
• 36:17 End of Interview
• 36:56 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 40:37 Outtakes

You can learn more about Norman and his work at ProChain.com. Connect with Norman on LinkedIn here: LinkedIn.com/in/npatnode/

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 472 with Mark Reich. It's a discussion about lean, which is certainly not precisely the same as critical chain or theory of constraints. But Mark is similarly geeky about how to improve how we go about projects. I think you'll find episode 472 a great follow-up to today's discussion.
• Episode 328 with Terry Schmidt. Terry's passion is LogFrame, and though it's different from what we talked about today, Terry's geekiness for LogFrame could inspire you to think differently about projects.
• Episode 320 with Greg Githins. Greg wrote a book about thinking strategically. All I'll say is that if you and I could sit with these three guests and talk over coffee, we'd have quite an insightful and interesting chat!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader, that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Ways of Working

Topics: Project Management, Critical Chain, Theory of Constraints, Prioritization, Focus, Multitasking, Systems Thinking, Leadership Development, Constraint Management, Risk Management, Strategic Execution, Continuous Improvement

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Steve Jaffe, author of The Layoff Journey: From Dismissal to Discovery. Steve has been laid off four times over the course of his career, and those experiences shaped a thoughtful, practical framework for navigating the emotional and professional aftermath of job loss.

Andy and Steve explore why layoffs feel so personal even when we are told they are not, how identity often gets tangled up with job titles, and why the emotional response to a layoff closely mirrors the stages of grief. Steve explains why those stages are not linear, what denial, pain, and negotiation really look like in practice, and why trying to rush straight to acceptance can backfire.

You will also hear practical advice for leaders who must conduct layoffs, as well as guidance for professionals who worry they might be laid off in the future. From preserving dignity in difficult conversations to preparing financially, emotionally, and professionally before uncertainty hits, this discussion offers insight for both sides of the table.

If you are navigating uncertainty, supporting others through change, or simply want to be better prepared for whatever comes next, this episode is for you!

• "I wanted to give people a roadmap to process their layoff and the grief of their layoff in months rather than years."
• "One of the things that makes losing a job difficult is we tie our identity up in what we do."
• "And then in that period, before you've landed your next job, you're in this messy middle of Who am I?"
• "Define yourself not by what you do, but by who you are and what you bring to the table."
• "I've seen people be named Employee of the Year in January, and by June they're getting laid off."
• "Layoffs don't measure your worth. They measure a company's priorities."
• "The stages of grief are not linear. You can feel all of them in one day."
• "Your job title is not who you are."
• "Acceptance can become a way to skip discomfort instead of dealing with loss."
• "If you don't process the grief, it shows up later as baggage."
• "Dignity matters in the first minutes of a layoff conversation."
• "You want to build your network before you need it."
• "The person you were before a layoff will not be the same person after."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:45 Start of Interview
• 02:00 From First Layoff to Fourth: Taking It Personally
• 02:50 How the Layoff Process Has Changed Over Time
• 06:52 The Messy Middle Between Job Loss and What's Next
• 10:40 Why the Stages of Grief Apply to Layoffs
• 14:07 What Denial Looked Like in Steve's Experience
• 17:19 Balancing Emotional Honesty and Professional Reputation
• 22:08 The Quote That Opens the Book
• 23:00 Can You Jump to Acceptance Too Quickly?
• 24:58 When Past Layoffs Create Baggage at the Next Job
• 26:42 Advice for Leaders Who Have to Do Layoffs
• 28:55 Handling Performance-Based Separations with Integrity
• 30:40 How to Prepare Now If You Worry About Being Laid Off
• 32:46 End of Interview
• 33:33 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 37:37 Outtakes

You can learn more about Steve and his work at TheSteveJaffe.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 163. A short three-minute video Andy put together about what to do before losing your job.
• Episode 310 with Jeff Gothelf, about how to let your next job find you.
• Episode 230 with Scott Belsky. Not specifically about layoffs, but full of insights on careers, growth, and the hiring process.

In the outtakes, Andy and Steve talk about how AI is changing the workplace. If you want to be better prepared for an AI-infused future, check out our AI Made Simple course.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader. That's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than five minutes a week. And it's all for free.

Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Leadership, Layoffs, Career Transitions, Organizational Change, Emotional Intelligence, Resilience, Identity at Work, Grief, Workforce Planning, Change Management, Professional Development

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Dr. Andrew Wittman, former Marine, police officer, federal agent, and leadership coach, about his new book Inner Armor: Perpetual Resilience. If you lead projects and teams, you already know pressure is coming. The real question is what you do when it arrives.

Andrew explains why the brain can work against you under stress, and how the questions you ask yourself shape the options you can see. You'll learn the Two Minute Rule and how it can help you shift from "we can't" thinking into problem-solving mode. Andy and Andrew also explore how filters and assumptions influence what leaders notice, why limitation can be more dangerous than fear, and what it looks like to build a First Responder Mindset so you can hold your poise when stakeholders push back.

They close with a powerful discussion on identity and a practical look at raising resilient kids. If you're looking for insights on leading with clarity and composure when the stakes are high, this episode is for you!

• "The first thing you have to understand about the brain is that it is the original search engine. Like it has to answer a question."
• "The brain knows that you're a genius. Even if you don't consciously recognize that you're a genius, your brain knows it. It'll never go against your genius self. So if you say things like, I don't know how we could do this, your brain says, 'Oh, we don't know.' So it stops searching completely for any answer."
• "Just for two minutes, pretend that you could do it. It's amazing that your brain will just go to work and find like 15 ways you actually could do it, whereas seconds ago, we thought we couldn't."
• "When bad news happens, get happy. Whenever you hear bad news, you should get happy because this is your biggest opportunity to have the greatest comeback ever."
• "My question is, no matter what the bad news is, I'm going to ask myself this: how can I use this to my greatest possible advantage?"
• "I want to know what the holes in this project are. I don't want to hear rainbows and sunshine, right? Positive thinking will get you killed quicker than negative thinking."
• "We take in 11 million bits of information per second. Every second we see, hear, feel, touch, 11 million bits. Only 126 bits go to our conscious mind for action, which means we're filtering out 99.9% of all that information."
• "When you walk into a room, and you think no one supports you, you're going to see every cue that you could find to back that up. And you'll discard anything that would go against that."
• "The world is always ready to define you if you don't define yourself."
• "My identity: I'm a man of excellence who always keeps his word. I aspire to always keep my word. And so everything that I do is pre-decided by that identity."
• "Excellence is if I give my best effort, I could sleep tonight."
• "Welcome to Planet Earth, everybody has to deal with the externals. It's the great equalizer. We all have to deal with it. You're not special. I hate to tell you, CEO, you're not special."
• "Those pressure situations, they don't create your habits. They actually reveal them."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:40 Start of Interview
• 02:07 Andrew's Backstory and Early Influences
• 04:23 Unhelpful Questions Under Pressure and the Two Minute Rule
• 07:27 Applying the Two Minute Rule When a Key Dependency Slips
• 12:12 Training Practices to Make Resilience Automatic
• 16:49 Recognizing When Your Filter Is the Real Problem
• 18:33 Exposing Assumptions and Filters in Project Plans
• 22:21 A Personal Example of Misreading a Situation
• 25:10 How Beliefs Shape What You Notice in a Room
• 27:35 Why Limitation Is More Dangerous Than Fear
• 32:02 Building a First Responder Mindset and Holding Poise
• 36:07 Identity and Defining Yourself
• 40:37 Parenting Practices That Build Resilience in Kids
• 43:17 End of Interview
• 43:42 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 47:47 Outtakes

You can learn more about Andrew and his work at GetWarriorTough.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 448 with Marie-Helene Pelletier. It's an insightful discussion on resilience and burnout, and I think it would be a great follow-up to this discussion with Andrew.
• Episode 477 with Jess Baker. She's a business psychologist and coach who offers a refreshing perspective on how to increase your resilience at work and in life.
• Episode 398 with Dr. Neha Sangwan. It's an episode that will give you another perspective on avoiding burnout for you and your teams.

Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming our ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Resilience, Stress Management, Decision Making, Mindset, Emotional Regulation, Stakeholder Management, Communication, Self-Leadership, Identity, Team Performance

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Olivia Montgomery, Associate Principal Analyst at Capterra and a PMP. They discuss how artificial intelligence is reshaping project management tools, skills, and expectations. Olivia brings a rare perspective, combining hands-on experience leading a PMO with years of research into how organizations evaluate, adopt, and struggle with project management software.

Olivia and Andy explore why buying AI-powered tools is often easy, but realizing real value from them is much harder. Olivia explains the shift from buying software based on seat count to buying based on capability, why security is both the top source of satisfaction and frustration, and how unclear success metrics can quietly derail adoption. They also dig into the hidden risks of delegating too much to AI, including data governance blind spots and misplaced trust in tools that feel intuitive but have real limitations.

You'll also hear why emotional intelligence is becoming more important as technology advances, how PMs can stress-test AI tools before committing, and which skills will separate the next generation of project leaders from the rest.

If you're trying to prepare for the future of AI, tools, and skills in project management, this episode is for you!

• "Buying tools is very easy. Realizing the value is extremely difficult."
• "Security is not IT's job. It's the whole company's job."
• "If your main metric is just 'use AI,' that's a red flag."
• "AI is very good at predicting what is most likely to happen next, and terrible at predicting black swan events."
• "Emotional intelligence is what helps you move forward when technology can't."
• "Use AI to generate a first draft. That's the safest place to start."
• "If you don't know the topic well yourself, you won't spot when AI gets it wrong."
• "Confidence in AI can grow faster than readiness, and that's where problems start."
• "AI can flag a risk, but it cannot tell you why people are stuck."
• "Data governance is going to set project managers apart in the future."
• "No matter what job you have in ten years, emotional intelligence will still matter."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:00 Start of Interview
• 02:10 Olivia's Role and Career Path
• 06:53 Shifts in How Organizations Choose PM Software
• 08:23 The Security Satisfaction and Frustration Paradox
• 11:25 Why AI Tools Are Easy to Buy but Hard to Use Well
• 20:18 Warning Signs of Overconfidence in AI
• 24:03 How to Stress-Test AI Tools Before Buying
• 27:50 Why Emotional Intelligence Matters More with AI
• 34:28 The Future of Project Management Software
• 40:08 Skills That Will Define the Next Generation of PMs
• 45:20 Where to Follow Olivia's Work
• 46:20 End of Interview
• 46:40 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 49:15 Outtakes

You can follow Olivia Montgomery and her research on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/olivia-montgomery.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 479 with Matt Mong, about the AI skills you need to stay relevant in the years ahead
• Episode 463 with Faisal Hoque, on how to transcend the fear and hype around AI
• Episode 384 with PMeLa, the first-ever interview with an AI on a leadership or project management podcast

Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader, that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Artificial Intelligence, Project Management Software, Project Management, Business Acumen, Data Governance, Security, Emotional Intelligence, AI Adoption, Future Of Work, Leadership Skills, Technology Strategy

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Peter Cappelli and Ranya Nehmeh, co-authors of In Praise of the Office: The Limits to Hybrid and Remote Work. In a world still grappling with virtual work, Peter and Ranya challenge us to take a fresh look at the workplace. Not just where we do work, but how that space shapes learning, culture, visibility, and performance.

In this conversation, you'll hear what gets lost when teams are always virtual, why hybrid work often underdelivers, and how proximity plays a surprising role in mentoring, innovation, and even career progression. Peter and Ranya explore how organizational culture shifts when people are rarely together, and what leaders can do to intentionally design experiences that rebuild connection—even across distance.

You'll walk away with insights on how to lead hybrid teams more effectively, how to help team members think differently about in-person time, and why space is not just a backdrop to work—it's a contributor to how work gets done. If you're leading a team in today's hybrid landscape and wondering what really matters, this episode is for you!

• "Remote work disembodies employees and limits their capacity to build relationships, learn informally, and get noticed."
• "The most frequent way people got promoted was by being visible to their managers."
• "Slack and Teams are a poor substitute for face-to-face interactions and a terrible way to learn culture or figure out who knows what."
• "Informal communication is essential to how work gets done, and it doesn't happen easily when everyone is remote."
• "Hybrid sounds great in theory, but it rarely delivers the benefits of in-person work unless it's intentionally designed."
• "People don't always know what they need to know, and much of what's important is learned indirectly."
• "We're not saying remote doesn't work. But we are saying there are trade-offs, and many companies haven't fully reckoned with them."
• "One big problem with hybrid is that it often ends up being asynchronous. No one's in at the same time."
• "The office was never perfect, but it enabled certain human processes that are hard to replicate at a distance."
• "If you're going to make remote or hybrid work well, it requires real investment in new systems and norms, not just wishful thinking."
• "We have to be honest about what we're losing, not just what we're gaining."
• "Serendipitous learning is one of the most underappreciated losses of remote work."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:38 Start of Interview
• 01:45 What Is There to Praise About Remote Work?
• 04:34 Why Is the Push to Return Happening Now?
• 09:51 What Do We Lose with Remote Work?
• 13:18 What Problems Persist in Hybrid Models?
• 17:40 What Are Companies Doing to Make Hybrid Work?
• 20:20 Advice for Leading Hybrid Project Teams
• 25:42 Advice for Individual Contributors Navigating Hybrid Work
• 29:59 How Culture Shapes Remote and Office Decisions
• 33:14 Lessons from Co-Writing the Book
• 35:59 End of Interview
• 36:32 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 40:15 Outtakes

You can learn more about Peter at mgmt.wharton.upenn.edu/profile/cappelli and about Ranya at RanyaNehmeh.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 457 with Andrew Brodsky. It's an insightful take on how we can avoid the mistakes that happen when teams are not collocated, with an author who I think is a future Adam Grant.
• Episode 361 with Yasmina Khelifi, who joined us to talk about leading virtual teams, specifically across cultures. Yasmina is a hands-on project manager so you can hear her take from that perspective.
• Episode 22 with Keith Ferrazzi. It's a discussion about his book Who's Got Your Back? and it contains ideas that I still use, over a decade after talking with Keith.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader—that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Leadership, Hybrid Teams, Remote Work, Organizational Culture, Career Development, Team Collaboration, Psychological Safety, Communication, Mentorship, Project Management, Work Environment, Employee Engagement

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Ignotus by Agnese Valmaggia License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Lynn Smith, former NBC News, MSNBC, and CNN Headline News anchor, executive communication coach, and author of Just Keep Going. Lynn is best known for helping Fortune 500 leaders turn pressure into presence, but her newest book takes an unexpected form: a children's story about fear, resilience, and perseverance.

That surprising choice is exactly what makes this conversation so relevant for leaders. Andy and Lynn explore why the same fears that stop CEOs are often the ones that show up in kids, how our inner critic or "Brain Bully" shapes behavior under pressure, and why the goal is not to eliminate fear but to metabolize it. Lynn shares deeply personal stories about rejection, family influence, and the lessons she learned growing up that shaped her approach to leadership and communication.

You'll also hear practical techniques leaders can use to calm their nervous systems, give feedback that actually helps instead of harms, and model resilience for their teams and families. If you lead people or projects and want practical insights on emotional intelligence, confidence, and navigating fear, this episode is for you.

• "The one trait and the one skill that separates us from success is resilience. If you can acquire that skill, you will be successful. Hard stop."
• "Your greatest failure can be in service of somebody else."
• "We are biologically wired for fear. Trying to delete it is a fool's journey."
• "Bravery is doing something even if you are afraid."
• "How you show up within one tenth of a second is defining you for your audience."
• "Feedback leads to growth. Criticism feeds the brain bully."
• "When we calm our nervous system, we can make better decisions."
• "There's a mouse in all of us that needs the reminder to just keep going."
• "Ending what doesn't serve you is not quitting."
• "Fear often shows up as stress, pressure, or imposter syndrome, but it's the same circuitry."
• "Resilience is the greatest gift we can give our kids and our teams."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:45 Start of Interview
• 01:55 Family Influence and Early Experiences
• 06:45 Recognizing the Brain Bully
• 12:28 Learning Resilience Over Time
• 14:08 Giving Feedback That Helps Instead of Hurts
• 15:50 Metabolizing Fear Instead of Eliminating It
• 20:05 Rejection and the Origin of the Book
• 23:00 Strategies from the Book for Big Feelings
• 26:15 The Business Equivalent of Jumping Up and Down
• 28:50 When Just Keep Going Does Not Apply
• 31:50 How Lynn and Her Team Help Leaders
• 34:10 End of Interview
• 34:47 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 37:30 Outtakes

You can learn more about Lynn and her work at LynnSmith.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 462 with Margie Warrell, about going from playing it safe to speaking up.
• Episode 397 with Dr. Julia DiGangi, a discussion Andy continues to revisit for practical insights.
• Episode 394 with Joshua Freedman, one of the leading voices on emotional intelligence.

During the episode, Andy mentions the importance of preparing for an AI-infused future. Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free and a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy.

I know you want to be a more confident leader. That's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of leaders committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than five minutes a week, and it's all free.

Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com.

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, Resilience, Fear Management, Communication Skills, Executive Presence, Feedback, Confidence, Self Leadership, Team Culture, Project Leadership

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sasha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

In this episode, Andy talks with Barry Wolfe, author of It's All In Your Head: Why Psychology Doesn't Help Your Workforce Deliver Value - And What Can. Barry is a seasoned HR executive and business leader who has built a reputation as one of the rare "HR guys who actually has a head for business." In this frank and eye-opening conversation, Barry challenges many of the tools and ideas we've come to rely on in leadership and management.

Andy and Barry discuss why frameworks like Maslow's hierarchy may be doing more harm than good, how personality assessments can become limiting narratives, and why our obsession with "fit" often backfires. But this isn't just a critique. Barry offers an alternative in the form of Value-Centric Leadership, a model that reframes how we think about work, leadership, and results. You'll learn about tools like The Same Page and the 4C's of leadership that can help you lead with more clarity and purpose.

If you're ready to challenge what you think you know about managing people (and want practical tools to lead more effectively), this episode is for you!

• "Most of the hiring tools we use today are only marginally better than chance."
• "We act like we're selecting with science, but we're often just rationalizing our preferences."
• "Maslow never created a pyramid. That was a marketing add-on, not a scientific insight."
• "Psychology gave us language, but somewhere along the way, it became the product."
• "What do I want to pay people to do?" becomes "What results do I want to buy from them?"
• "We pay people to do activities, but it's because we want to buy results."
• "Nobody buys verbs. People buy nouns."
• "Maslow had no interest in actually validating his model. He just threw it out there."
• "If you get married and someone asks, what are you looking for in a spouse? Would you really say the upper left box?"
• "The guy who created the DISC assessment was also the creator of Wonder Woman."
• "Given the choice between thinking hard and spending money, most business leaders would rather spend money."
• "Part of the problem with these tools is you're learning about science through something called marketing."
• "We've got strategic plans, core values, mission statements. What's missing is being on the same page."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:45 Start of Interview
• 02:00 Barry's Early Career Influences and Business Perspective
• 06:42 Why Leaders Rely So Heavily on Assessments
• 09:25 The "Yes, Buts" of Psychological Tools
• 15:20 What We Get Wrong About Maslow's Hierarchy
• 19:00 From Paying for Activities to Buying Results
• 23:30 Connecting Project Work to Real Value
• 24:00 Introducing The Same Page
• 28:47 The Most Overlooked Element of Leadership
• 33:47z Looking Ahead at AI, Automation, and the Future of Work
• 41:22 End of Interview
• 42:03 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 45:19 Outtakes

You can learn more about Barry and his work at ArgosHR.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 473 with Jeffrey Hull & Margaret Moore. They have rigorously researched what it takes to lead, and I think you'll find their approach and findings to be a nice complement to today's episode.
• Episode 417 with Mary Crossan and Bill Furlong. They have deeply researched 11 dimensions of character, which has some nice alignment with the 4 C's that Barry talked about.
• Episode 47 with Henry Mintzberg. If you haven't been with us since the early days, it would be easy to have missed this episode with one of the foremost curmudgeons of management. I think you'll find his insights in episode 47 to be a helpful addition to what Barry talked about in this episode.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you, too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

I know you want to be a more confident leader—that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, People Management, Business Psychology, Strategic HR, Hiring, Performance Management, Personality Assessments, Organizational Culture, Project Value, Team Development, Employee Experience, Decision Making

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license