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In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Luciana Doria Wilson, co-founder of Managrow, a boutique member of AICA global corporate advisors.
Luciana opens up about her experience in Jeffrey Pfeffer's "Leading with Power" course, which shifted her perspective from execution to leadership, revealing the critical role of resilience, discipline, and strategic understanding of power dynamics, especially as a woman in a male-dominated industry. Luciana's insights will leave you empowered and ready to navigate your own career path with confidence.
Learn how ManaGrow's commitment to long-term relationships with entrepreneurs and investors across 40 countries has driven sustained growth and client loyalty. Tune in for practical advice on expanding your professional network, maintaining client trust, and creating lasting business success in today's global market.
00:00 Welcome
01:03 Meet Luciana Doria Wilson
02:01 Luciana's Early Career in Finance
03:05 Transition to Board Roles
07:07 Founding ManaGrow
09:52 Impact of Stanford's Power Course
12:06 Networking Strategies and Business Growth
15:27 ManaGrow's Unique Approach
17:07 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:
The impact of the power course on Luciana’s business approach
[12:06] Jeffrey: So, what was the difference after you took the class? What did you do differently in terms of the networking that you had done before and then after the class?
[12:16] Luciana: So one thing is that I'm more selective. The other thing is the strategy behind my mind. So if I want to create impact, what is it that I need? Who do I need to speak to? I was able to get access to very interesting people during my career, but I wasn't using those relationships to do the things I thought were important or aligned with my values. So that's how it changed. It's a completely different picture from what I was doing before. I was able to help and get help, and this is something ongoing in my life.
What makes Managrow different?
[17:09] Jeffrey: It strikes me that a lot of what you're doing, other organizations are also doing, particularly investment banks and business brokers. What do you believe is your competitive advantage?
[17:21] Luciana: Most of the boutiques do only transactions, and the relationships with their customers are based on the deals. We work as a boutique, so we do not compete with banks because they are doing the largest transactions. And with the small ones, we are different because we know better the customers, investors, and entrepreneurs. So it's the concept of the boutique; that's why it's very different from those that are only doing transactions and don't care about long-term relationship that they are building between these entrepreneurs.
On getting out of your comfort zone
13:39: There is a lot about getting out of your comfort zone... It's something you choose, not something that happens.
Show Links:In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Deepti Pahwa, advisor of corporate venture studios, government-led start-up accelerators, and also the author of the book, Trailblazer Founders.
Deepti brings us lessons in power distilled to "three superpowers" of courage, creativity, and determination. Her inspiring journey showcases how you can exploit structural holes in professional networks, craft resources almost out of thin air, and pursue objectives with unwavering intentionality. Jeffrey and Deepti discuss how she doesn't just talk about the importance of personal branding and leadership; she embodies it. Deepti also stresses the importance of building and using your network, sharing how embracing your role as your own Chief Evangelist Officer can open doors and create opportunities, particularly for people historically left at the margins.
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
00:00 Welcome
01:21 Deepti’s Career Journey
04:18 Leveraging Power and Networks
07:15 From India to Global Influence
10:00 Trailblazer Founders
16:41 Building Economic Opportunities for Diverse Communities
19:37 Closing Thoughts
Episode Quotes:Deepti’s three principles in taking your own power
18:33: The first three principles that I personally use, which I believe are my superpowers, but I also believe are superpowers for any given person: courage. It's like taking bold actions and making bold asks because what is the worst that would happen? You would hear a no; that's about it, right? So, just take the plunge. The second thing is to build networks and support networks around you who are invested in your success. And there are lots of people, at least in today's world, who are invested in your success. Go out there and find them, and, at the same time, have that insane kind of determination for what you're after because it is the impact that you wish to create. It's not about who is stopping you. Just be like water. Like, if you see a river, it finds its way, right? So everybody's able to kind of find that way if you just have the determination. Build networks and support networks around you who are invested in your success. And there are lots of people, at least in today's world, who are invested in your success. Go out there and find them, and at the same time, have that insane kind of determination for what you're after because it is the impact that you wish to create. It's not about who is stopping you. Just be like water. Like, if you see a river, it finds its way, right? So everybody's able to kind of find that way if you just have the determination towards the impact that you wish to create.
Don’t bet on the horse bet on the jockey
11:27: There's a whole coaching industry out there of products, services, and frameworks that prepare startup founders with so-called business model innovations, product-market fit, failure mindset, and culture training for teams, but no one ever teaches them the importance of leadership skills, building networks, thought leadership, investing in communities, and showing up with confidence and conviction to convey their ideas. And to me, it's more like telling a friend how to play chess on your behalf. I mean, you can make as many plans and business models as you want, but unfortunately, strategies and frameworks do not come in handy on a battlefield. And it's a very different set of skills that you need to succeed as an entrepreneur. And in doing the research that I did in writing this book, I found that venture capitalists, investors, and board members, and dozens of them that I interviewed, do not actually bet on the horse that is your idea, but they actually bet on the jockey that is the founder itself.
On providing opportunities for entrepreneurial idea for people with diverse background
17:46: I have to say that a lot of the times we talk about how we can provide for fair systems from the institutional perspective, and what we can do as institutions to increase that diversity. But my take is that, all that needs to be done and is a responsible thing to do, but until that happens, what we as individuals can do is to take part in the systems; and that is only possible by way of taking our own power and building our own influence .
Show Links:In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by John Rossman, author of four books on leadership and business innovation, including The Amazon Way and his new book Big Bet Leadership. He is an early Amazon executive who played a key role in launching the Amazon marketplace business in 2002. Today, he is a leading keynote speaker on leadership for innovation and transformation. He has served as the senior technology advisor at the Gates Foundation and senior innovation advisor at T-Mobile and is the founder of Rossman Partners, a strategy & leadership solutions firm.
John and Jeffrey discuss how corporate titans like Amazon sculpt their industry-dominating strategies. John Rossman helped mold Amazon's colossal marketplace. John tells Jeffrey his six cardinal rules for skillfully navigating Amazon’s early days and the pivotal role of trust in accelerating one's career. John also shares insights into using memo crafting as a clarity tool and customer happiness as the central dogma. Check out this episode for some real insight on navigating corporate power.
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:You have to manage dependencies
10:00: So, the 14th leadership principle at Amazon is "deliver results." And the other ones tend to get the fanfare, but I'm telling you, the 14th is the one that differentiates Amazon. Like, you have to deliver results. Well, most things are not within your control; then you're really managing dependencies, and so you see this very active dependency management process. And so it's all based off of kind of "trust, but verify," like, you're always featuring the bad news. You're always having check-in meetings. You don't trust what they say. You ask more for proof points and demonstrations, and you don't assume anything. And so, sometimes, that gets into hedging and creating alternate paths. But people that are successful at Amazon are extremely good at managing dependencies upon others.
Why clear expectations are the cornerstone of trust
06:42: Trust and transparency sound like such great attributes to have, but most people don't really understand what trust is. Trust is about setting expectations and hitting expectations. And if you can trust that somebody sets good expectations and then hits those expectations, you can work together through almost anything. And most people don't actually understand what that word "trust" is; they think it means something like, you know, trustworthy or something like that, but you can actually create a formula. And what most people don't do well is they don't set expectations very well. And when you don't set expectations very well, then you each have a vague understanding of what the expectation is. And that's where so many things go sideways.
Without risk, there are no new innovations
08:20: Alpha risk is where we create new innovations. And so, you have to be extremely good at communicating your concept and where it's going. You also have to be very good at teaming networks and internal negotiating relative to this. So, this builds off of the trust aspect of setting expectations.
Show Links:In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Deborah Gruenfeld, professor at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business and author of the book Acting with Power: Why We Are More Powerful Than We Believe.
Deborah emphasizes the impact of physical body language and personal presence on the perception of power. The discussion further delves into the utilization of 'outside-in' and 'inside-out' techniques for asserting power and the notion of differentiating between status and power.
Deborah argues that possessing power comes with responsibilities that may not appeal to all while striving for status is universal. From the width of your stance to the tempo of your speech, the nuances of body language speak volumes about your place in the social hierarchy. Deborah and Jeff examine the choreography of power—how to enter a room, how to take up space, and how to pace your movements to nonverbally assert dominance. For those who've ever felt overlooked or underestimated, this episode is a toolbox for crafting the presence you deserve.
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:A technique on how to show up more powerful
06:31: One set of tactics or techniques is what I call outside-in techniques, and they have to do with just changing how you carry yourself: your physical body, how you stand, how you use your arms, how you use your eyes, and how you sit. The other set of tactics that I really think is equally important, maybe even more important in some cases, is what I call inside-out tactics. The inside-out tactics have to do with having ways to reframe situations and our role in those situations that are empowering. One of the things I like to say in my classes is that there are a lot of things about power and social life that are not under our control. We can't, for example, control directly how people perceive us, but we can always control, once we know how, where our attention goes.
How do you act powerful?
12:26: Being open in some ways feels very vulnerable, and it is. But when you have a lot of power, you can afford to be vulnerable. This is why the alpha gorillas sit with everything exposed because nobody's coming for them. It's the lower-down-ranking animals that have to protect their bodies. So having an open chest, in particular, conveys a lot of authority and power. That's an especially important technique for people who are smaller in stature. People always ask me if I can't carry myself like a tall person and I can't dominate someone physically with my height, what options do I have? I often tell them that the most important thing is that you carry yourself with an open chest because what you're communicating when your arms are capable of moving away from your body is that you are ready to fight for whatever you want, regardless of how big you are.
On being comfortable with power
23:25: There are people who just feel that it's not who they are to carry themselves in a way that takes ownership of superiority, authority, control, or having interests, experiences, and expertise that are privileged above other people. They're just people who feel like they can't do that. And I think it's one of the big challenges that a lot of executives face. In this way, I think we're really aligned, which is that most people realize they need to be comfortable with power in order to be successful. But they have to get past this fear of being held accountable, fear of losing status, fear of making enemies, and also fear of failing to show up as an authentic, powerful person when how you really feel is a little bit smaller.
Show Links:In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Steve Westly, a venture capitalist and entrepreneur - he was employee number 22 at Ebay, lecturer in Management at Stanford University, and politician. He is also the former State Controller of California and can call some of the most powerful people in the world his friend.
In this episode, Steve unpacks the stark contrasts and surprising similarities of power's role in both the private and public spheres and discusses why today's brightest stars are shying away from public service—a trend he believes is crucial to reverse.
What has Steve learned about power from working closely with notable figures like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Barack Obama, and Meg Whitman, and the personal sacrifices they made on their paths to success? From the indispensable value of determination and the wisdom that you only get from defeat to the essence of intelligent communication and ambition, Steve and Jeffrey go over the essential qualities that forge a successful leader—be it in the worlds of tech or politics.
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:Are the public and private sector leadership qualities more similar than we think?
22:45: Private sector and public sector require you to be not just a good communicator, but a great communicator. And I think the best leaders in the public and the private sectors are people who are not only great communicators. They have the rarest of all personal traits, and that's the ability to inspire people. Tenacity in both sectors. It is tough. You've got board issues. You've got employee issues, legal issues, labor issues, and politics. You got all the issues. You have to be incredibly tenacious.
What makes a successful politician?
12:19: It's not just persistence and determination; it is insane determination. It is the willingness to sit in a small room hour after hour, calling people, begging for money, and to go out the next day and have people beat the living shit out of you. In the public and with your family, my opponent for the gubernatorial race not only ran hit ads on me but managed to get my wife and two and three-year-old children into the hit pieces. It's not easy. Winston Churchill once said, in war, you can only die once. But in political life, you can die many times over again, and it's true. It's hard. It's tough.
What Steve learned from Meg Whitman of Ebay?
18:07: I think there are three things. I mean, one of them—it's where I was starting—Pierre and Jeff really handed the keys to a rocket ship to her. It was the first thing with a community growing like crazy that was, you know, there's always a little bit of good luck in the long term success. Second, look, Meg's just very smart. She's a Princeton grad. She was an athlete. She has a degree from Harvard, a background at Disney. She was smart. She was experienced. And third, I would say she's just a great communicator. And I think she worked hard at listening. She had a lot of superb traits.
12:19: Leadership has a lot of facets for students out there. I'd urge you to look broadly, and it goes beyond the standard pedigree.
Relevant Links:In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Matt Abrahams, a lecturer at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, podcast host of Think Fast, Talk Smart, and author of both 'Speaking Up Without Freaking Out' and 'Think Faster, Talk Smarter.'
The discussion centers around effective communication strategies to navigate through challenging situations and accelerate career growth. Topics include managing anxiety during public speaking, shifting communication mindset, being present-oriented, the importance of preparation, and leveraging structure in spontaneous speaking situations.
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:Communication is about connection, not perfection
17:52: Many of us worry about not doing our communication right. We want to be perfect. We want to do it right. And I'm here to tell you, after doing this for decades, there is no right way to communicate. There are better ways and worse ways, but there is no one right way. And by fixating on trying to do it right, we actually get in the way of doing it well at all. It's all a bandwidth issue. Cognitive bandwidth. We only have so much bandwidth, and if part of that bandwidth is dedicated to hyper judgment, hyper-evaluation, we have less effort to put into what we're saying. So it's about connection, not perfection. Communication is about connection, making it relevant. So after we manage anxiety, that's where we have to go.
What are the keys to speaking better?
20:03: If we manage anxiety, we connect rather than worry about being perfect. Make sure that we see things as opportunities, not threats. We listen well, and we use structure. Those are the keys to being better at speaking in the moment.
How do we get over the fear of public speaking?
05:09 [Jeffrey Pfeffer]: What is your advice to help people get over this fear of public speaking?
05:17[Matt Abrahams]: We have some evidence that upwards of 75-85 percent of people report it as a major issue that they have. And quite frankly, I think the rest of the people are lying. I think we could create a situation that would make them nervous too. The goal, I don't think, is to overcome it. I don't think we ever truly can overcome it. Those of us who study this believe it's innate to being human to have this anxiety, but there are certainly things we can do to manage it. When it comes to managing anxiety, you can look at it as a two-pronged approach. First, you have to deal with the symptoms that we experience—the rapid rate, the sweaty brow, the shakiness—but you also have to address the sources of anxiety—the things that initiate and exacerbate it. It's a two-pronged approach.
Relevant Links:In this episode of the Pfeffer on Power podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer is joined by Tony Levitan, CEO of InWhack and the co-founder of Egreetings. The discussion delves into Levitan's experiences as a startup founder, specifically the challenges faced during his journey with Egreetings which ended up transforming from a 300 million-dollar business to a 30 million-dollar one.
Levitan speaks about the lessons he learned and the importance of retaining the company’s culture even amidst leadership changes. Pfeffer and Levitan also shed light on 'imposter syndrome,' the need for behavioral interviewing during executive searches, and the pivotal role of effective coaching in personal and professional development.
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:On the importance of inquiry
18:26: One of the things that is the easiest door in for many is we all are asked to make business decisions off of data. And yet, when it comes to two things, we don't tend to bias towards data. One is people. We don't tend to have as much data on people, right? We make decisions off of gut feel and things like that. The other is being able to take an external view of ourselves and our competency, right? So I have a couple of clients who are wrestling with their identity as a competent leader, and yet they're surrounded by data that says, "You are making a difference. You are delivering impact." They just have a hard time seeing it, and they don't have people around them who are helping them see it on a daily basis.
On the importance of having a coach
22:41: When I made the shift at InWhack, Inc., it took me a while to figure out where my sweet spot was going to be because I think, just like I had to figure out where I could deliver as a coach, people who look for a coach need to do some reflection on what would be helpful to them.
What references should really tell you
14:17: One of the mistakes we made at Egreetings is, we actually—I feel embarrassed to share this because it's so obvious, but we had the executive search firm do the reference checking. And I mean, you want to talk about misaligned incentives, right? I mean, their incentive is to close the search. Our incentive is to have deep insight into who's coming to work in our company. So, that's one of the things I always mention. The other thing is that References aren't so much about, should I hire this person or not. References really ought to be about how do we most effectively work with this person. What does this person need to be effective in working with us?
Relevant Links:In this episode of 'Pfeffer on Power,' host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a Stanford University professor, converses with education expert and influential figure, Dr. Rudy Crew. Dr. Crew is the Clinical Education Professor at USC Rossier School of Education, and has had notable former roles as Chancellor of New York City Schools, superintendent of the Miami-Dade County School District, and Chief Education Officer for the State of Oregon.
After having a long successful career in the education sector in these prestigious roles, Dr. Crew shares insights on navigating the sphere of power, the cost that comes with it, and the wisdom necessary to make careful choices.
The talk explores aspects of power like ego, greed, the lure of linking to powerful individuals, and the personal, professional, and political consequences of the pursuit of power. Dr. Crew emphasizes the importance of staying grounded, maintaining humane leadership, and being observant of warning signs in a volatile political environment.
Significantly, he stresses that ethical leadership rooted in keeping the welfare of students at the forefront has helped him navigate these challenges.
Learn more about Jeffrey Pfeffer and his work on JeffreyPfeffer.com
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:Lead by the kind of quality work your provide
18:25: I remember having to make budget cuts, and those budget cuts were going to be pretty deep. But there's goodwill in the culture. If there are other things that you did or have done traditionally that made people feel like this was not a vendetta, unfortunately, this was a bad fiscal year in the state of California, and we had to make budget cuts. But the fact of the matter is, there was humanism brought to the table. There was a sense of honor brought to the table. There was transparency and a sense of humility brought to this that no one enjoyed watching people walk out the door and be without a job. You can create a cultural wave of positivity and yet do some things that are very, very, very unpopular and sometimes very uncomfortable.
There’s no good deed that gets unpunished
17:05: My advice has always been, pay the price. Don't do the wrong thing, but just understand that by doing the right thing, you will still accrue a consequence. There's no good deed that goes unpunished.
Every job comes with a quid pro quo
15:57: When you get the job, be prepared to lose the job. That would be the first of many commandments, right? Be prepared to lose it, and by losing it, I mean, it may be gradual, but the fact of the matter is every decision you make comes with a consequence, and that consequence generally is added up in political terms, and the accumulation of that is what I would say to you is quid pro quo. That is the giant quid pro quo. It's the one that you're going to ultimately pay permanently for.
Relevant Links:Welcome to the Pfeffer on Power podcast. I'm your host, Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, where I teach a popular course on developing and using your power and organizations to get things done and advance your career. In this podcast, we interview people who have successfully implemented power principles to accelerate their career successes. We include startup founders and people from diverse backgrounds working around the globe. We talk about building helpful social relationships, creating resources, how to develop the qualities that produce power and success, what those qualities are and how to enlist others in achieving your goals. Check out our previous season of more than 20 episodes at pfefferonpower.com, and stay tuned for new episodes and interviews every other week with people who have used these ideas to do remarkable things, just like you can.
Learn more about Jeffrey Pfeffer and where you can buy or listen to his books:
EPISODE 25 – Dana Carney, Professor & Director of the Institute for Personality and Social Research at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business
SHOW NOTES:
Dana Carney, a world-leading expert on body language, is a professor at the Haas School at UC Berkeley who also runs the Institute of Personality and Social Research. She shares the most up-to-date tips on the strategic use of body language and facial gestures to persuade other people about your power or an issue.
In this episode, you’ll learn about:
Why people respond to others based on how they look
The data shows that taller and good-looking people make more money
The why and how people look and come across through gestures
The 43 cues that have nothing to do with power
The 9 cues that have everything to do with power
How to differentiate between who has power and who does not
What, in addition to access to and control over resources, creates power
What to be careful of if you’re taller or bigger
Non-selfish, pro-social reasons for mastering your body language
Myths and facts around eye contact
Why Anna Wintour wears sunglasses to fashion shows
The visual dominance ratio
Behavioral nudge action planning
Physiognomic cues that influence power
Why body language, how people look, and the gestures they make are so important
Nonverbal communication within the animal kingdom
Dana R. Carney is a Professor and the Director of the Institute for Personality and Social Research at the University of California, Berkeley in the Haas School of Business. She is also an affiliate Professor in the Department of Psychology and the Department of Cognitive Sciences. Carney is one of the world’s leading experts on nonverbal behavior.
Professor Carney’s fresh, modern approach to nonverbal behavior has made her the go-to figure in this space, serving as a consultant for corporate seminars, and academic gatherings. From Blackrock Advisors to the Los Alamos National Lab, Carney has consulted private equity, tech firms, and small businesses alike, in addition to speaking at many academic conferences and at most major Universities in the U.S. and beyond. Carney’s catchy and informative videos on nonverbal behavior have skyrocketed her account practically overnight, @danarosecarney, to 64K followers over a half a million total likes. She has been featured in Men’s Health, Time Magazine, Forbes India, Reader’s Digest, Quartz, World Bank Blogs, Business Insider, Entrepreneur, Muse and many more (NYT, WSJ, etc.).
Prior to serving on the faculty at UC Berkeley, Carney was an Assistant Professor at Columbia University's Graduate School of Business. She was a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard in the Psychology Department working with esteemed colleagues such as Mahzarin Banaji (implicit bias expert and author of the bestselling book Blindspot) and Wendy Berry Mendes. She received her PhD in Experimental Psychology from Northeastern University (working with the world’s expert on the link between nonverbal communication and power, Judith A. Hall) and her master's degree at California State University (working with the world’s experts on the link between nonverbal communication and each anxiety and social skills, Jinni A. Harrigan and Ronald E. Riggio, respectively). She received her B.A. from the University of San Francisco (working with one-half of the team of Maureen O’Sullivan and Paul Ekman—the world’s leading experts for over 60 years on the nonverbal cues associated with and accurate detection of deception).
Professor Carney is currently in the final stages of writing a popular book on nonverbal behavior. Nonverbal communication is, at once, much more complex and much more interesting than the media would have the public believe.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/danarosecarney
Produced by The MunnAvenuePress.com
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