Primal Endurance Podcast

Host Brad Kearns connects with Peter Defty, promoter of Optimized Fat Metabolism and Vespa energy food: Vespapower.com. Peter is a very early promoter of fat adapted training, and is a successful ultra distance athlete, with many marathons and a Western States 100-mile Endurance Run finish. Since the early 2000s, Peter has coached other athletes to optimize their fat metabolism, including some world-class performers like Zach Bitter, Nell Stephenson, and many others. 

This is a lively show with an analysis of some contentious issues in the current fat adapted training scene. Defty is promoting a “MMAF” - Modified Maximum Aerobic Function. Basically, the idea is that fat adapted athletes can increase their aerobic training heart rate by some 20 beats, because of their optimized fat metabolism and improved cardiovascular system function. This is a pretty big deal because MAF is being promoted as the end-all for aerobic conditioning. 

Defty suggests that fat-adapted training improves cardiovascular function to the extent that athletes might even see an increase in maximum heart rate. This is some provocative stuff that will be interesting food for thought for endurance athletes out there who are dedicated to aerobic training and fat-adapted eating.

Who is Peter Defty and what is his Optimized Fat Metabolism and Vespa food promotion? [00:00:40] 

Do carbs have a place in this endurance world? [00:05:56] 

Using the Vespa supplement in races has what effect? [00:08:46] 

People are meant to be fat burners so what happened when the carbs came into the mix? [00:11:08] 

What is Modified Maximum Aerobic Function? [00:14:23] 

When we look at the some of the greatest athletes in the past and know that their diets were different, what happened to their hearts that they were able to perform like they did? [00:20:42] 

If you are fat-adapted and you are getting better performance from your cardio-vascular system does it increase your maximum heartbeat? [00:25:19] 

What about the idea of bumping up your heart rate increasing the stress level of training? [00:29:00]

Isn't it confusing to think that the diet can increase the heart rate? [00:34:19] 

What are the strength athletes getting from this high fat diet? [00:37:54] 

How does insulin come into play? [00:42:41] 

What is a strategic inclusion of carbohydrates into the diet to optimize performance? [00:46:05] 

Brad Kearns raps with Ludacris and Bieber and then discusses concepts relating to maximum aerobic heart rate and how to escape carb dependency and become a fat burning beast. Brad reflects on Peter Defty’s recent appearance on the show and his suggestion of increasing your maximum aerobic heart rate if you are fat adapted; how Dr. Phil Maffetone reminds us that even slow paced aerobic workouts support peak performance at all speeds; and his propensity during his professional triathlon career to train very slowly in order to moderate the overall training program stress, but still support peak endurance performance in races. Bottom line: Slow down, eat primal-style, make your easy workouts easier and occasionally hit it really hard with what Mark Sisson calls, “Breakthrough workouts.”

Host Brad Kearns welcomes Andrew to the hot seat as they tackle more Q&A sessions. Topics include: how quickly one can improve when slowing way down to stay aerobic, using perceived exertion in anaerobic type races like mountain biking, how to best consume calories during sustained workouts (including fine-tuning fat adaptation by consuming minimal amounts) and how the “cheat day” mentality is totally ridiculous.

42 year old firefighter asks about how much improvement should he expect in months or a year after I have switched to the slower method of training? And what about the pace in an upcoming race? [00:00:53] 

As a firefighter, I am obligated to stay strong in the gym lifting weights. How will affect my racing? [00:05:51] 

The next question is about training partners who keep a faster pace. At what point do I know to shift my focus to a more intense workout? [00:06:51] 

A mountain bike racer is asking will the fat adapted approach still provide enough glycogen for all the anaerobic work? [00:08:19] 

Do I keep the commitment to aerobic as I enter the racing season? [00:12:27] 

Will a No Sugar Branched-Chain Amino Acid drink mess with my attempt to stay fat adapted? [00:14:54] 

Should I eat to build volume during the base building period? [00:15:54] 

How much is too much when we are talking about training at these aerobic heart rates? Should I use HRV to per iodize my schedule? [00:16:56] 

How should I use these starch products and high quality carb sources for fueling during training and racing? [00:22:28] 

What about cardiac drift that comes when you get really fatigued? [00:33:28] 

How long a drift above maximum aerobic heart rate does it take to negate the training session? [00:36:12]

Host Brad Kearns talks about the various options for how to use keto as a long-term tool for metabolic optimization. Long term nutritional ketosis is recommended by oracles like Dr. Phil Maffetone and could be a good option for many. Cyclic ketosis is a reasonable choice, where you enjoy the benefits of fasting/keto-aligned meals and also enjoy higher carb meals that bump you temporarily out of ketosis but help you recover from exercise stress and enjoy life and you can stay in a primal-aligned mode and not bother with the regimentation and strictness of nutritional ketosis, and still enjoy assorted health benefits.

The popular Q&A shows have a new twist and Andrew MacNaughton, former elite pro, The Athletes Potential coach, and popular podcast repeat guest, tackles questions from listeners. Some of the questions lead us to hitting some big picture philosophical points hard. Andrew urges athletes to ignore the struggle and suffer mentality that is embedded in endurance culture. You don’t have to suffer or feel routinely tired to progress as an athlete.

Focus on going faster at aerobic heart rates rather than inching up training heart rates. There are assorted dangers of training in the black hole. Furthermore, you implement and refine good technique at slow speeds (true in all sports). You can mix in a bit of strength training during aerobic periods, especially if you have goals like obstacle course racing. 

Is there a propensity to over train? [00:01:09] 

In order to feel good about being in shape should workouts and training be a painful punishment? [00:05:22] 

Should we have "make-up workouts?" [00:06:40] 

Alicia asks what kind of heart monitor should she use? [00:09:46] 

Is it a good goal to try to bump up our heart rates? [00:11:25] 

What is the right level to shoot for in order to train BELOW my Maximum Aerobic Function? [00:15:05] 

Is it important to do "quality" rather than "junk miles"? [00:19:44] 

Can one apply this theory of going slow in training in swimming or golfing? [00:24:00] 

What are some techniques one should use for preparing for Obstacle Course Racing? [00:29:57] 

Brock Armstrong on protein, strength training, losing body fat, and self-testing 

Host Brad Kearns welcomes popular recurring guest Brock Armstrong for a wide-ranging discussion, including: latest trends in ancestral health, why the protein fad is missing the boat, and how lowering protein might improve both health and peak performance (hint: shouldn't be using protein as fuel, even when you are trying to increase muscle mass); Brock's transition to serious strength training: he works hard in the gym for 45 min, Brad for only 15 min. But this could be a function of their neurotransmitter composition and optimizing workout types and workout patterns accordingly (listen to Dave Dollé show #47 for more detail on this important, but little-discussed topic). Brock's shocking DEXA scan results showing he had osteoporosis and also an elevated body fat number that calls into question all other less-precise methods as being perhaps inaccurate. The pair discuss the pros and cons of self-testing. Yes, it's important to get regular checkups and screens, address all health concerns, take advantage of online customized blood testing, and even look toward alternative healers for peak performance goals. But overdoing it and getting OCD about it can become stressful in and of itself. Reference Andrew MacNaughton's oft-discussed mantra of making training decisions according to moods, and always factor intuition into your health and training picture. Enjoy this lively and fast-moving discussion that will definitely get you thinking, especially about stuff you should test and track and other stuff you might not want to worry too much about!

Are we in the ancestral movement eating too much protein? [00:01:20] 

What is happening when you are taking in more protein than you need and ballooning up? [00:06:32] 

How does one optimize the diet to get the balance with desired body composition? [00:11:25] 

How does one know how much time one needs for a workout? Is it a genetic contribution? [00:13:51] 

What does one learn about fitness when measuring body fat? [00:22:26] 

What surprising results happened with Brock's bone density exam? [00:31:09] 

What does the regular person look for when they go to their family physician about their overall health? [00:35:30] 

Do we really need all the technology (apps, scans, etc.) to maintain our body health? [00:44:05] 

SOME FUNNIES:

String challenge: Put string around waist. If the distance is less than half of your height, you are "healthy."[00:52:54] 

The collarbone challenge: Take a roll of quarters and place them in the space of your collarbone. If they stay put, you are efficiently skinny. [00:53:43] 

Brock Armstrong

DEXA Scan

Time to leverage the information from the previous shows and try out a ketogenic eating period! First, be sure you are highly fat adapted, ideally with months under your belt of primal aligned eating. In particular, you want a virtual elimination of grains, sugars and refined vegetable oils, and definitely an average daily carb intake under the Primal Blueprint standard of 150 grams of carbs per day or less. Make a minimum 6-week commitment to going keto, where you will limit carb intake to 50 grams per day or less, and limit protein intake to a range of 0.5 to 1 gram per pound (1.1 to 2.2 grams per kilo) of lean body mass. Essentially, your macronutrient profile will be high/very high fat, low/moderate protein and very low carb. 

Avoid chronic training patterns and overly stressful lifestyle behaviors that will tip your ship in the direction of carb dependency. Consider using supplements like Kegenix, KetoCaNa, Pruvit, etc. to turbo-charge your ketone burning and perhaps get you over humps like energy lulls and you recalibrate your metabolic machinery in the direction of ketone burning. 

Host Brad Kearns catches up with an old-time triathlon legend Michael Collins. Based in Irvine, CA, Michael is one of the leading triathlon swim and performance coaches in the country, and was a former pro competitor back in the late 80s and early 90s. He has been competing in assorted endurance and multi-sport events non-stop for 30 years. Michael has a casual approach to training that has fueled his longevity and offers a valuable model for all endurance athletes. He calls himself a "Lazy trainer," who is "always a couple weeks away from being in shape." Consequently, he doesn't flirt with the over-training spiral, enjoys the experience, and can still compete at a high level.

In 2016, he set a goal of beating his Ironman time from 1991 (9:48 in Hawaii). Following the primal principles of fat adapted eating and training, Michael torched Ironman Arizona in 9:34 - this on the heels a runner-up finish at the Sprint World Championships. Michael did some interesting fat-adapted training strategies like doing slow, fat burning 8-mile runs both morning and night, the better to prepare him for the fatigued slow running in an Ironman. Inspired by his swimming background, he talks about why developing excellent technique is critical to improving aerobic function, and advocates workouts featuring short bursts of faster efforts. This helps you refine technique without excess stress on the heart. Learn great practical tips and also become inspired by Michael's incredible longevity and recent Ironman comeback.

What were the early days like for Michael as a young triathlete and eventually ending up as a coach? [00:01:16] 

Why is he considered to be a "Lazy Trainer?" [00:03:23] 

Has he still been competing for the past 30 years? [00:07:31] 

What happened when he did an Ironman after all these years? [00:09:39] 

What were his different strategies then? [00:13:10] 

How is it that good athletes look like they make so little effort? [00:14:19] 

Do it right.  Do it faster. What does that mean? [00:17:01] 

Why is it important to learn how to swim in a wet suit? [00:21:01] 

How does his training differ today compared to when he started his career? [00:22:30] 

How did his return Ironman performance compare? [00:29:45] 

What is his training program like? [00:32:39]                                    

Breakthrough Triathlete Training

Michael Collins, Coach

Ketone burning has assorted health and performance benefits, including drug-like anti-inflammatory properties and neuro-protective benefits. As a clean burning fuel (less oxidative stress than dirty burning glucose) it’s especially helpful to the brain. When your brain gets more oxygen and better neurotransmitter function during exercise, workouts seem easier and you consequently recover faster, as validated by the Central Governor Theory, which proposes that the brain is the ultimate governor of physical performance, not the peripheral muscles.

Some of the laboratory results from keto endurance pioneers are nothing short of astonishing. Peter Attia went from burning 95% glucose and 5% fat at “all day pace” to 22% glucose and 78% after a dietary adaptation period. Ironman triathlete Sami Inkinen took his “time to bonk” value from 5 hours up to 86 hours after keto-adapting his diet. Athletes in the FASTER study burned twice as much fat per minute as was previously believed to be the human limit. WOW! Try it for yourself but give it six weeks, and get more tips in the next Interval show.