In this Harvest Series episode, Rose Claverie sits down with journalist-filmmaker Rokhaya Diallo and author Thomas Chatterton Williams to explore courage, race, and identity across two continents. Recorded in Kaplankaya, this conversation examines what it means to challenge dominant narratives in societies with very different approaches to discussing race.

Rokhaya shares her path to becoming a leading public voice in France, shaped by personal experience and the absence of representation in French media. Thomas reflects on his transatlantic perspective, contrasting the reception of his work in the U.S. and France, and discussing race as both a fiction and a lived reality.

From intellectual courage to personal passions — including anime, sport, and literature — this episode offers a layered conversation about identity, visibility, and the price of speaking out.

Chapters

 00:00 – Welcome to Harvest & introduction

00:29 – Raising your voice in a quiet world

01:19 – First impressions & arrival in Kaplankaya

02:01 – Rokhaya’s background and roots

02:50 – Thomas’s background and roots

03:33 – Becoming public voices on race & identity

04:20 – Gender awareness from a young age

05:04 – Discovering racial perception in adulthood

07:01 – Representation in media: France vs. U.S.

08:51 – Impossibility of seeing oneself in French media

10:23 – Visibility changes & ongoing gaps

11:12 – Representation in French cinema and culture

12:08 – Thomas on becoming a public writer

13:22 – Race as a prism in writing

15:01 – France vs. U.S. discourse on race

17:10 – Contrasting receptions of their work

18:16 – Race as fiction with real-world impact

19:10 – Misuse of each other’s work in debates

20:20 – Expectation of “gratitude” from minorities

22:10 – Complexity of national identity and history

23:20 – Audience reactions and defensiveness

24:25 – The impossibility of a racism-free society

25:01 – Left-wing critique vs. accusations toward minorities

25:27 – Balancing debate fatigue with mission

26:07 – Intellectual courage and respectful discourse

27:04 – Handling online criticism & resilience

28:06 – Superpower: not needing strangers to like you

28:59 – Fatigue from being misunderstood

29:17 – Desire to speak beyond confrontational topics

30:04 – Media reception and debate framing

31:15 – Topics beyond race & politics: anime, sport, literature

34:09 – Current projects and upcoming books

36:07 – Graphic novel biography of Angela Davis

37:27 – Magic wand changes: better dialogue & equal storytelling

39:19 – Closing thanks and reflections

If you had the courage to change one thing in your society, what would it be?You can follow us on Instagram at @HarvestSeries or @rose.claverie for updates.

Watch our podcast episodes and speaker sessions on YouTube: Harvest Series.

Credits:

• Sound editing by: @lesbellesfrequences
• Technician in Kaplankaya: Joel Moriasi
• Music by: Chambord
• Artwork by: Davide d'Antonio

Harvest Series is produced in partnership with Athena Advisers and Capital Partners

Harvest Series Founders: Burak Öymen and Roman Carel