The hilarious Jen Hatmaker (New York Times–bestselling author and host of the podcast For the Love) joins me to chat, in part, about her new memoir Awake. We talk about the moment in her life when everything seemingly dissolved (including her marriage of 26 years and her relationship to the church) and the much deeper awakening that she entered from there, when she truly started to rely on herself.

For the show notes, head to my Substack.

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