We need a recovery of the sacred in our secular world. Because the mental, emotional, and psychological struggles haunting society right now can’t be solved without addressing meaning, purpose, and the longing for connection to something beyond ourselves.

In other words, spiritual health is an essential part of mental health.

An attorney, religious scholar, and university chaplain, Dr. Varun Soni is Dean of Religious Life at the University of Southern California, and is leading us back to our true north, through spacious and life-giving spiritual conversations and sacred practices that realign us to our values and identity.

In this conversation with Varun Soni, we discuss:

• Finding the sacred in our secular culture.
• Religious pluralism and what it means to build trust that reaches across religious lines of difference.
• The transformative power of finding your “truth north”—your North Star—to orient our journeys of faith and spirituality.
• Varun shares six pillars of flourishing; how to align our actions with our values; and the benefit of listening to the cultural narratives and stories we tell.
• He reflects on the missing elements of spirituality in our understanding of mental health today, evidenced in his work with teens and emerging adults.
• He offers us a Hindu meditative practice to provide inner clarity, stability, and calm.
• And he comments on compassion and a cultivation sacred spiritual practices to counteract the loneliness, anguish, and suffering in our world.

Show Notes

• Dr. Pam King welcomes Varun Soni, Dean of Religious and Spiritual Life at USC
• Journey from Hindu attorney to first Hindu Dean of Religious and Spiritual Life in the U.S.
• “What does it mean to be Indian? What does it mean to be Hindu? What does it mean to be American? What is this Indian American experience?”
• 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act
• Inspired by grandfather’s connection to Mahatma Gandhi
• “ What it meant to be Hindu was to be like Gandhi. What it meant to be Indian was to be like Gandhi. What it meant to live a meaningful life was to live like Gandhi.”
• “ I continued to study religion as a way of understanding myself.”
• Sitting with the Dalai Lama on Mahatma Gandhi’s birthday
• Mentorship from the Dalai Lama
• Deepak Chopra’s influence
• “Interfaith trust building”
• University Chaplaincy
• What is thriving to you?
• "Thriving is the alignment of purpose and practice—it’s not about arriving, but about moving in the right direction."
• “What is my north star, and how do I get there?”
• Spiritual well-being about asking the right questions, not having all the answers
• Religion once provided meaning, rituals, and community—now young people seek new structures
• "What is sacred to you? If you can’t answer that, you’re drifting without a compass."
• The urgency of time when turning 50 years old
• “I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone anymore.”
• “Put the process before the answer.”
• 6 pillars of thriving and well-being: diet, sleep, exercise, contemplative practice, emotional intelligence, connection to nature
• Basic physical pillars of thriving: Diet, Sleep, Exercise
• Spiritual pillars of thriving: Contemplation, Emotional Intelligence, and Communing with Nature
• Finding what is sacred—faith, relationships, personal values
• 51% of USC students non-religious, 80% spiritual
• Record levels of loneliness, imposter syndrome, comparison culture
• “Not just a mental health crisis, but a spiritual health crisis.”
• Loss of intergenerational religious experiences—key protective factor against depression
• "We took away religion and replaced it with social media, then wondered why anxiety skyrocketed."
• Social media fuels disconnection rather than community
• "We weren’t built for this much bad news. Our brains weren’t designed to process global suffering 24/7."
• “There’s no right way to do contemplative practice.”
• Find moments built into your day
• Exercise: So Hum breath meditation: Inhale “So,” exhale “Hum”
• Using meditation as a spiritual technology or tool
• "You are not your thoughts—you are the awareness behind them."
• Identity shaped by personal narrative—"If you don’t like your story, rewrite it."
• Telling the story of who you will become
• "Every individual is the hero of their own journey, whether they realize it or not."
• Cultural mythology, from sacred texts to Marvel movies, reflects search for meaning
• Spirituality helps build redemptive life narratives
• “There power in being part of something bigger.”
• The Spiritual Child by Lisa Miller—research on spirituality and mental health
• "It’s hard to hate the people you love—universities are one of the last places where people can learn to love each other across differences."
• Technology and mediated relationships
• What is sacred to you?
• "Gen Z’s greatest superpower is empathy, but they’ve never been lonelier."
• Building protective factors for young people
• Gratitude rituals shift focus from anxiety to appreciation
• Care, justice, and connection
• Mental Health Crisis
• Mental Health and Spiritual Health
• Awe-inspiring moments—nature, music, relationships—essential to well-being
• "Awe, wonder, and gratitude aren’t luxuries—they’re survival tools."
• “You can’t doom-scroll your way to joy. Presence and connection matter.”
• Religious institutions declining, but human need for transcendence remains
• Creating new rituals and meaning-making for a secular generation
• "Spiritual health is just as important as mental health—ignore it, and you miss a key part of the equation."
• What is your North Star? What gets you up in the morning?
• How do your daily practices align purpose and action?
• How do the stories you tell shape your identity and thriving?
• Try So Hum meditation as a daily mindfulness practice
• Engage in one act of gratitude—write a note, express appreciation, savor a moment
• It’s all too easy to fragment our lives into secular and sacred, but thriving and spiritual health require wholeness and integration of every aspect of ourselves, including our faith and spirituality.
• Future generations of leaders need our guidance and support in their connection to community and their search for meaning, purpose, and hope.
• Keep your seat-belt firmly fastened, your seat-back upright, tray table stowed, and secure your own spiritual oxygen mask before assisting others.
• We can counteract the outrage, anxiety, and information overload with simple, daily practices that bring stability and clarity.
• We thrive when we align our actions and our values, our behavior with our beliefs, and our practices with our purpose.

About Varun Soni

Varun Soni is the Dean of Religious Life at the University of Southern California. He received his B.A. degree in Religion from Tufts University, where he also earned an Asian Studies minor and completed the Program in Peace and Justice Studies. He subsequently received his M.T.S. degree from Harvard Divinity School and his M.A. degree through the Department of Religious Studies at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He went on to receive his J.D. degree from University of California, Los Angeles School of Law, where he also completed the Critical Race Studies Program and served as an editor for the Journal of Islamic and Near Eastern Law. He earned his Ph.D. through the Department of Religious Studies at the University of Cape Town, where his doctoral research focused on religion and popular culture. As an undergraduate student, Dean Soni spent a semester living in a Buddhist monastery in Bodh Gaya, India through Antioch University’s Buddhist Studies Program. As a graduate student, he spent months doing field research in South Asia through UCSB’s Center for Sikh and Punjab Studies.

Dean Soni is currently a University Fellow at USC Annenberg’s Center on Public Diplomacy and an Adjunct Professor at the USC School of Religion. He is the author of Natural Mystics: The Prophetic Lives of Bob Marley and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (Figueroa Press, 2014) and his writings have appeared in the Washington Post, Huffington Post, Crosscurrents, Jewish Journal, and Harvard Divinity Bulletin. He produced the critically acclaimed graphic novel Tina’s Mouth: An Existential Comic Diary by Keshni Kashyap, which is currently being adapted as a feature length film. He also produced and hosted his own radio show on KPFK-Pacifica that showcased music from South Asia and its diaspora. In 2009, he was one of the organizers of the historic Concert for Pakistan, a benefit concert at the United Nations General Assembly Hall featuring Salman Ahmad, Sting, Outlandish, Jeff Skoll, Deepak Chopra, and Melissa Etheridge.

Dean Soni is a member of the State Bar of California, the American Academy of Religion, and the Association for College and University Religious Affairs. He is on the advisory board for the Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement, Journal for Interreligious Dialogue, Hindu American Seva Charities, Future45, and the Parliament of the World’s Religion. Prior to joining USC, Dean Soni spent four years teaching in the Law and Society Program at UCSB. Born in India and raised in Southern California, he has family on five continents and they collectively represent every major religious tradition in the world.

About the Thrive Center

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About Dr. Pam King

Dr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.  Follow her @drpamking.

About With & For

• Host: Pam King
• Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
• Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
• Social Media Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
• Consulting Producer: Evan Rosa

Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.