In this foundational episode of Regulated & Relational, Ginger and Julie dive deep into attachment disorders—what they are, how they’re diagnosed, and the realities families face when raising children with these challenges.

From the history of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder (DSED) to the proposed Developmental Trauma Disorder (DTD), Ginger and Julie unpack decades of evolving research, personal experience, and practical tools for caregivers and professionals. They also address the hallmark behaviors—like manipulation, triangulation, lack of empathy—and explore why these behaviors occur, and how to respond in ways that promote healing and connection.

This conversation is both honest and hopeful—acknowledging the challenges while sharing effective therapeutic parenting strategies, the importance of pacing and dosing nurture, and the long-term potential for growth and change.

• The history and evolution of attachment disorder diagnoses in the DSM
  

• How RAD and DSED differ—and why splitting the diagnosis has caused confusion
  

• Prevalence rates and why research has been limited
  

• How attachment disorders can be mistaken for, or co-exist with, autism
  

• The why behind hallmark behaviors:
  

• Manipulation and control
  

• Triangulation between adults
  

• Lack of cause-and-effect thinking
  

• Low empathy
  

• Therapeutic parenting strategies, including:
  

• Offering limited, safe choices
  

• Making implicit care explicit
  

• Pacing and dosing nurture to build trust
  

• Reducing chaos and avoiding power struggles
  

• Why Developmental Trauma Disorder matters—and how it may fill gaps in our understanding of trauma’s impact on children
  

• Hopeful outcomes and the critical importance of early intervention and ongoing support
  

• Attachment & Trauma Network: www.attachmenttraumanetwork.org
  

• National Institute of Health prevalence statistics (2023)

• Reactive Attachment Disorder - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537155/ (Published: May 1, 2023)

• Introduction to children's attachment - NCBI: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK356196/ 

• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537155/#:~:text=Epidemiology,Adolescent%20Well%2DBeing%2C%20No.
  

• Research on RAD subtypes: Dr. Charles Zeanah (2004)https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4342270/

• ACEs Study: CDC ACEs Resources
  

In this enlightening episode, Ginger Healy and Julie Beem sit down with Diane Gould, LCSW, and leading voice in the PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) movement in North America. As co-author of Navigating PDA in America and Founder of PDA North America, Diane shares her deep expertise and personal journey—including her recent autism diagnosis—to help unpack the complexities of this misunderstood profile of autism.

Together, we explore what PDA is, how it differs from traditional views of autism and oppositional behavior, and why recognizing it matters so much. From practical strategies to systemic change, this episode is a must-listen for parents, educators, and professionals working with neurodivergent children.

• What Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is—and what it isn’t

• Why PDA is often misunderstood as oppositional defiance

• The power of the distinction: “I can’t” vs. “I won’t”

• The origin and mission of PDA North America

• What effective support looks like for PDA individuals

• Common misconceptions in schools and clinical settings

• The importance of collaborative, flexible approaches

• One small but powerful change you can make today

Navigating PDA in America By Diane Gould, LCSW is a groundbreaking guide for parents, educators, and clinicians seeking to understand and support individuals with PDA in a U.S. context. https://a.co/d/4HS7wy1

🌐 Connect with Diane Gould & PDA North America:📥

• Website: https://pdanorthamerica.org/

• https://pdanorthamerica.org/free-pdfs/

•  [email protected] 

• www.pdanorthamerica.org 

• learn.pdanorthamerica.org 

• facebook.com/pdanorthamerica 

• • Instagram.com/pdanorthamerica
  • @PDANorthAmerica 

PDA North America Resources: 

• PDA Learning Lab - self-paced pre-recorded webinars & trainings - https://learn.pdanorthamerica.org/ 
• Annual Conference - March 5-7th Virtual & In-Person outside Chicago 
• PDA Insights Articles - Articles posted regularly on various PDA topics - https://pdanorthamerica.com/insights 
• PDA-Affirming Provider List - over 500+ providers that consider themselves PDA-affirming, sorted by state/province - https://pdanorthamerica.org/pdaaffirming-providers/ 
• Upcoming Webinars & Events - details and registration for all upcoming announced offerings - https://pdanorthamerica.org/events/ 
• Parent Provided Educators List (if you have a PDA child that goes to an educator that is PDA affirming, we'd love for you to submit them to be listed!) https://pdanorthamerica.org/pda-affirming-providers/ 
• Free Peer Support Groups - support groups that meet regularly - https://pdanorthamerica.org/support-groups/ 
• YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/
• Free Downloadable PDF Resources - free downloadables - https://pdanorthamerica.org/free-pdfs/ 
• PDA Community Contact List - parents and PDAers seeking a local community of people that understand and value their experience - https://pdanorthamerica.org/community-list/ 
• Support Shop - PDA Swag shop - https://pdanorthamerica.org/supportshop/#products 

Don’t Miss Future Episodes!

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Let’s keep growing a trauma-informed, attachment-focused community. 💙

In this heartfelt and reflective episode, Julie Beem and Ginger Healy return to a profound conversation from Season 1 with the late Cissy White—trauma survivor, fierce advocate, and the originator of the term Joy Stalking.

As the world faces rising despair and isolation, Julie and Ginger explore what it means to stalk, savor, and sustain joy—especially in the face of pain, trauma, and fear. Drawing from Cissy’s wisdom, Brene Brown’s research, theological insights, and their own personal journeys, they unpack how joy can be a radical act of healing and resistance.

You’ll discover why joy is not the same as happiness, how trauma can block joy, and why cultivating even the tiniest moments of joy might just be one of the most important things we can do—for ourselves, our children, and our communities.

“Joy stalking is always healing and useful. It’s about savoring life through sensing, using my body, absorbing, feeling all the good stuff.” — Cissy White

“Joy isn’t the opposite of sadness. It’s the opposite of fear.” — Anne Robertson via Brené Brown

“Joy doesn’t betray but sustains activism… joy is a fine initial act of insurrection.” — Rebecca Solnit

“We can’t experience joy when we’re scanning for danger. Trauma blocks joy—but healing invites it back in.” — Julie & Ginger

In this thought-provoking episode of Regulated & Relational, Ginger Healy and Julie Beem invite you to explore the transformative power of empathy—not just as a personal virtue but as a vital, actionable skill that the world needs now more than ever.

• Listen actively – Focus on understanding, not fixing.
  

• Challenge your assumptions – Seek to understand those who are different from you.
  

• Model empathy for children – Help them recognize their own feelings first.
  

• Be compassionate with yourself – Self-awareness is the foundation for empathy.
  

“Empathy isn’t about imagining yourself in someone else’s shoes—it’s about listening deeply to their story and believing them.” – Ginger Healy

In this special birthday-themed episode of Regulated & Relational, we’re doing something a little different—and a lot more personal. Julie Beem is celebrating her birthday by inviting the entire ATN podcast team into the studio for a heartfelt and reflective conversation about birthdays, aging, and the complexities surrounding these milestones—especially for children impacted by early childhood trauma.

You’ll hear from Julie, Ginger, Lorraine, and Stephanie as they open up about their own birthday reflections, share meaningful life lessons, and discuss how birthdays can be both joyful and emotionally complicated—especially for children who have experienced trauma, loss, or displacement. Whether you’re a parent, educator, therapist, or someone who just loves a good reflection, this episode is both thought-provoking and full of warmth.

In this insightful episode of Regulated & Relational, hosts Ginger Healy and Julie Beem are joined by Ce Eshelman, LMFT—an expert in attachment, trauma, and therapeutic parenting.

With decades of experience as a therapist and adoptive parent, Ce brings both professional depth and personal understanding to this rich conversation.

Together, we explore the foundations of therapeutic caregiving, how trauma impacts a child's behaviors and relationships, and what caregivers, educators, and clinicians can do to better support healing. Whether you're a parent, therapist, or simply someone passionate about trauma-informed care, this episode is filled with wisdom, encouragement, and practical tools for supporting children from hard places.

What therapeutic parenting really means—and why it works

Common misconceptions about children with trauma histories

How traditional parenting approaches can fall short for these children

Practical ways professionals and extended family can support adoptive and foster families

Words of wisdom for overwhelmed caregivers—and why there is always hope

Ce Eshelman, LMFT is the founder of The Attach Place Center for Strengthening Relationships in Sacramento, CA. A passionate advocate for children from difficult beginnings, Ce is the creator of the Love Matters Parenting Program and author of two powerful books (links below). With over 35 years of clinical experience and lived expertise as an adoptive mom, Ce has helped countless families build connection, resilience, and healing.

• The Attach Place Center
  

• Attachment & Trauma Network
  

• Love Matters Parenting Program – Learn More

• https://www.lovemattersparenting.com/podcast

• Drowning with My Hair on Fire: Insanity Relief for Adoptive Parents

https://a.co/d/6Z4MQki

• 20 Things Children from Difficult Beginnings Wish Friends and Family Knew

https://payhip.com/b/Y90UJ

Today, we’re honored to sit down with a friend of ATN, Martin Ali Simms—a Neurosequential Sports Specialist, Mental Health Consultant, and Founder of The DOPE Coach Academy. Martin has dedicated his life to helping athletes and coaches tap into the healing potential of brain-based approaches, somatic practices, and trauma-informed care.

In this episode, we dive into:

🧠 What it means to be a Neurosequential Sports Specialist and how brain development intersects with trauma recovery in sports

💪 How somatic practices support healing in athletes (and non-athletes)

⚽ Why sports and movement are such powerful tools for emotional and mental wellness

🏆 The mission and philosophy behind The DOPE Coach Academy

💬 How coaches can foster environments of emotional safety and growth

🔍 The evolving conversation around mental health in the sports world—and what’s still missing

✨ Simple, practical ways anyone can use movement to begin their own healing journey

Whether you're a coach, athlete, parent, or simply curious about the intersection of mental health and physical movement, this episode offers inspiration and actionable insights.

• Instagram: @thedopestcoach

• Website: www.thedopestcoach.com
  

💬 “Trauma doesn’t just live in the mind—it lives in the body. And the body remembers.” — Martin Simms

If you loved this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and share with someone who needs to hear it. And tag us when you’re listening—we love seeing how this community is growing through these conversations.

In this vital episode, Julie and Ginger dive into the intersection of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) with trauma-informed practices. As DEI comes under political and cultural scrutiny, the hosts make the case that there is no trauma-informed approach without embracing DEI.

• DEI is not optional for trauma-informed practice—it is essential.

• Diversity includes more than race: gender, neurodiversity, age, ability, and lived experience.

• Equity means adjusting systems and supports so everyone can thrive.

• Privilege isn’t shameful—it’s an opportunity to advocate and build awareness.

• Systems can either heal or harm—it's up to us to make them more inclusive.

Diverse environments enhance safety, fairness, innovation, and connection.

📚 Referenced Research & Resources:

1. Merriam-Webster Definitions

• Diversity: “The condition of having or being composed of differing elements.”

• Equity: “Fairness or justice in the way people are treated.”
  

2. SAMHSA’s Three E’s of Trauma

• Event, Experience, and Effect

• Source: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Trauma and Violence
  

3. Greater Good Science Center – UC Berkeley

• Article: Why Diversity Matters

• Summary: Diversity enhances well-being, social connection, and community resilience.

• Website: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu
  

4. uvonen et al. (2018) – UCLA Study on School Diversity

• Title: Diversity and Peer Relations in Schools

• Finding: Diverse classrooms foster safety, reduce loneliness, and encourage cross-race friendships.

• Citation: Juvonen, J., Kogachi, K., & Graham, S. (2018). Psychological Science, 29(2), 230-241.
  

5. Kenneth Braswell -https://www.kennethbraswell.com/

• Website: https://www.attachmenttraumanetwork.org

• Facebook: facebook.com/AttachmentTraumaNetwork

• Email: [email protected]
  

In today’s episode of Regulated & Relational, Ginger Healy and Julie Beem are joined by a special guest, Cally Flox, a teaching artist, educator, and the lead author of A Teacher’s Guide to Resilience Through the Arts. Cally is the founding director of the BYU ARTS Partnership, where she works to enhance student learning and school culture by providing professional development for educators. With a wealth of experience teaching creative dance, integrated arts, and more, Cally brings a unique perspective to the conversation about supporting children impacted by early childhood trauma through arts education. Tune in to hear her insights on resilience, brain-compatible learning strategies, and the power of the arts in fostering healing and growth.

Harvard’s Thinking Routines

https://pz.harvard.edu/thinking-routines

Cally’s summer art conference

https://education.byu.edu/arts/arts_express

Brain Gym

https://breakthroughsinternational.org/programs/the-brain-gym-program/

Cally’s Book-Teachers' Guide to Resiliency Through The Arts

https://a.co/d/diaJrQU

Resources Cally would like to share:

https://advancingartsleadership.com/

The Arts Playbook

In this insightful episode, we sit down with educator, writer, and advocate Meghan Ashburn to explore how we can better support autistic students—both in and out of the classroom. Meghan shares her journey from teacher to autism advocate and how listening to autistic voices reshaped her entire approach.

We dive into:

• Why general education teachers are crucial allies for autistic students

• How schools can become more neuro-affirming and inclusive spaces

• The importance of centering autistic perspectives in both parenting and education

• Shifting away from behavior-focused strategies to more compassionate, neurodiversity-affirming support

📚 Resources Mentioned:

• Beyond Behaviors by Dr. Mona Delahooke

• Uniquely Human by Barry M. Prizant

• The Reason I Jump by Naoki Higashida

• Meghan’s website: Not an Autism Mom

• The Au-some Book Club – a community for learning alongside autistic voices

📝 Read Meghan's Articles:

• "Gen Ed Teachers Hold the Key" – a powerful call to action for inclusive education

• "Make the School Library More Accessible to Autistic & Disabled Kids"