We are told from a young age to pursue love—romantic love, self-love, divine love. But how do you actually define love? And once you do, how do you find it?

Cleo Wade is the right person to ask. She's a poet whose latest book is called “Remember Love: Words for Tender Times.” Our conversation about love led down many paths: we talked about appreciating pain, staying present, and the resurgence of poetry.

This is... A Bit of Optimism.

For more on Cleo and her work check out:

her new book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/724180/remember-love-by-cleo-wade/

https://cleowade.com/