Respecting Religion

On February 2, we'll see the 71st installment of an event that always raises eyebrows and makes news. The National Prayer Breakfast has been around since 1953, but what is it? Does it promote religious freedom, or is it yet another example of Christian nationalism? Amanda and Holly explore the legitimate questions it raises about faith in public life and the relationship between the institutions of government and religion. They also share their thoughts on what we should do about the National Prayer Breakfast and the key differences between it and the National Day of Prayer.

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): Exploring the National Prayer Breakfast from various angles

You can email Amanda and Holly at [email protected]

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift supports the podcast!

Listen to Amanda and Holly's conversation on the National Prayer Breakfast during the very first episode of Respecting Religion in February 2020 at this link. Their discussion of the event begins at 28:44 into the episode.

Amanda and Holly mentioned this op-ed in The Washington Post by Arthur Brooks, who was the keynote speaker at the 2020 National Prayer Breakfast: Trump and I disagreed at the National Prayer Breakfast. But we listened to each other

Throughout its history, the National Prayer Breakfast has been hosted by The Fellowship Foundation, also known as "The Family." You can visit their website at this link.

As mentioned, this year a newly-created nonprofit will be the official host of the National Prayer Breakfast. "The Family" will host a large event at the same time that includes a livestream. Read more in this Religion News Service article by Adelle Banks and Jack Jenkins: National Prayer Breakfast breaks from 'The Family' with new organization

Amanda and Holly mentioned this 2022 article by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Sen. Chris Coons: This year's National Prayer Breakfast is a 'reset'

Segment 2 (starting at 25:21): History, controversies, and the proper relationship between religion and government

Amanda and Holly discussed the Johnson Amendment in season 2, episode 4: Grading the Trump administration on religious freedom (starting around 09:50 in that episode). You can also read more about BJC's work defending the protections of the Johnson Amendment

Journalist Jeff Sharlet wrote a book titled "The Family" in 2009 about the Fellowship Foundation, including the National Prayer Breakfast. In August 2019, Netflix released a 5-episode series called "The Family." You can read John Fea's review of the Netflix series that ran in The Washington Post.

Segment 3 (starting at 32:12): What's the difference between the National Prayer Breakfast and the National Day of Prayer?

Amanda quoted Brent Walker and quoted Holly from this BJC press release in 2011 about the National Day of Prayer.

Amanda tweeted about attending the White House's naturalization ceremony, held on Religious Freedom Day. See her tweets about attending here, including a clip from Second Gentleman Douglas Emhoff's speech.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Last week, our country marked the second anniversary of the January 6 insurrection. On today's podcast, Amanda and Holly share their reactions to the report released by the January 6 Select Committee at the end of 2022, including the lack of any mention of Christian nationalism and why that matters. Amanda and Holly also discuss the importance of Christian leaders providing an alternative witness to the Christian nationalism exhibited during the attack on the Capitol. And, they review how the insurrection still shapes our world and how it – surprisingly – doesn't shape Capitol tours.

SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:50): The January 6 Report

Read the final report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol at this link.

We played a clip compiling three individuals' statements during the January 6 hearings claiming the Constitution was divinely inspired: Greg Jacob, Rusty Bowers, and Rep. Liz Cheney. You can see Amanda's Tweet of the video here. You can read the comprehensive BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link. Click here to read the letter organized by BJC and Christians from Christian Nationalism to the January 6 Select Committee, asking them to investigate how Christian nationalism motivated and intensified the attack. You can watch Amanda's testimony before a House subcommittee in December at this link. Amanda and Holly discuss it in more detail in episode 9.

Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Vera Bergengruen for TIME Magazine: Why a Group of Christians Is Fighting the Growing Threat of Christian Nationalism

Additional media coverage on the absence of Christian nationalism from the final report:

Despite ample evidence, Christian nationalism mostly absent from final Jan. 6 report by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service

Christian nationalism conspicuously absent from January 6 report, featuring an interview with Amanda Tyler and MSNBC's Alicia Menendez on the Alex Wagner Tonight program

Segment 2 (starting at 20:17): Contrasting images on the 2nd anniversary of January 6

You can see BJC's photos of the prayer vigil in this Facebook album. There are also photos from Getty Images, AP, and Reuters from the vigil.

You can follow the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign on Instagram and TikTok at the handle @EndChristianNationalism.

Watch this short compilation of the two events on January 6, 20203, on the @EndChristianNationalism TikTok.

Segment 3 (starting at 28:45): Scrubbing the insurrection from Capitol tours

Amanda and Holly discussed this story from The Washington Post by Joe Heim: Official U.S. Capitol tour guides told to only mention Jan. 6 if asked

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift came through our podcast!

Why hasn't Congress addressed the dangers of Christian nationalism before now? Amanda and Holly talk about a crucial hearing this week, which included testimony from Amanda on how Christian nationalism overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation. They look at the challenges facing Congress in addressing the rise in violence in our country, and they share some bipartisan unity from this week's hearing. Plus, Amanda and Holly take a moment to thank our listeners as we wrap our final show of 2022.

SHOW NOTES:

Segment 1 (starting at 00:50): Why is congressional testimony important?

You can read the joint BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link.

Jack Jenkins and Emily McFarlan Miller wrote this article for Religion News Service about the expert statement from Christian leaders to the January 6 Committee: Major Christian leaders asked Jan. 6 committee to investigate Christian nationalism

Read the full text of the letter sent to the January 6 Committee at this link.

Amanda testified during a hearing titled "The Evolution of Anti-Democratic Extremist Groups and the Ongoing Threat to Democracy." It was the 7th – and final – hearing in the "Confronting White Supremacy" series of hearings led by the House Oversight Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. Click here to read more about the hearing and the list of expert witnesses.

Segment 2 (starting at 13:38): Amanda's testimony: Christian nationalism is not Christianity

Read Amanda's submitted written testimony at this link.

Watch Amanda's in-person testimony at this link.

Watch a video of the entire subcommittee hearing at this link.

Segment 3 (starting at 30:33):Who are our podcast listeners?

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift came through our podcast!

Amanda and Holly review this week's Supreme Court arguments in 303 Creative v. Elenis, a free speech challenge to a Colorado law that prohibits discrimination in the commercial marketplace. They look at how this case came to be, how it relates to 2018's Masterpiece Cakeshop case, and the difficulty in deciding weighty matters of free speech and nondiscrimination for a wedding website design business that has not started that aspect of its business. Amanda and Holly play clips from the courtroom and share why, based on the questions and the tone, they think 303 Creative will win this case. But, the big question is how the company might win and how this case may affect debates about religious freedom and nondiscrimination laws.

SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:53 ): From Masterpiece Cakeshop to 303 Creative

Amanda and Holly previewed 303 Creative v. Elenis in episode 2 of season 4.

Learn more about the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case and read BJC's brief at BJConline.org/Masterpiece

Segment 2 (starting at 10:44): Key takeaways from 2+ hours of oral arguments

We played three clips in this segment from oral arguments, which are available on the Supreme Court's website at this link:

• Justice Elena Kagan (starting at 2:04:54 into the oral arguments)
• Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 00:46:12 into the oral arguments)
• Brian Fletcher, Deputy Solicitor General of the Department of Justice (starting at 01:56:00 into the oral arguments)

Amanda and Holly mentioned this op-ed by David Cole for The New York Times: The Supreme Court Is About to Ask the Wrong Question About the First Amendment

Segment 3 (starting at 26:20): A reeducation on some surprising questions

Visit BJC's Facebook page to see a video of Amanda outside the Supreme Court before the oral arguments began on Monday.

We played three clips in this segment from oral arguments, which are available on the Supreme Court's website at this link:

• Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 00:21:54 into the oral arguments)
• Brian Fletcher, Deputy Solicitor General of the Department of Justice (starting at 02:07:46 into the oral arguments)
• Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 02:14:57 into the oral arguments)

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Can marriage equality and religious liberty co-exist? Amanda and Holly discuss the Respect for Marriage Act, including what led to this bill's creation, the legislative wrangling to get it passed in an election year, and the bevy of amendments full of political posturing. They also discuss the important distinctions between marriage as a civil institution and marriage as a religious institution. Learn more about the current state of conflicts over LGBTQ rights and religious objections to same-sex marriage and what this means to those conversations.

SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:55): What is in the Respect for Marriage Act?

Read the text of the Respect for Marriage Act and the amendment passed by the U.S. Senate at this link.

Segment 2 (starting at 09:56): Why does this bill exist, and how did it make its way through the Senate?

Holly and Amanda discussed this article by Liz Goodwin in The Washington Post: How a bipartisan group of senators got same-sex marriage protections passed

Read Amanda's response to the compromise that paved the way for the Respect for Marriage Act in this article by Kelsey Dallas for Deseret News:How faith leaders reacted to Senate passage of same-sex marriage protections

Segment 3 (starting at 19:09): An extreme spectrum of reactions to the bill

Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Tad Walch for Deseret News: Why Latter-day Saints support the amended Respect for Marriage Act

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Where did we see religion and religious liberty have an impact during the midterm elections? Amanda and Holly break down election results in this podcast, including a look at how extremism fared at the ballot box. Plus, they review the implications of former president Donald Trump's return as a candidate when it comes to Christian nationalism.

SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:51): A quick overview of election results

Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Despite Mastriano's loss, don't count out Christian nationalism

Holly mentioned two pieces by Sam Perry and Andrew Whitehead:

• In The Washington Post: Is Christian nationalism growing or declining? Both.
• In TIME magazine: Why White Christian Nationalism Isn't Going Away

Segment 2 (starting at 09:36): Boebert, Mastriano, Stitt, DeSantis, and more

Holly mentioned this article from Baptist News Global by Mark Wingfield: Oklahoma elects secretary of education who wants to require training in 'Christian' version of American history

Amanda mentioned this video of Oklahoma Gov Kevin Stitt that was available on Twitter at this link.

The link to the campaign video tweeted by Casey DeSantis, wife of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, is available on Twitter at this link. You can read Amanda's Tweet responding to it here.

Amanda and Holly mentioned the Baptist News Global story on the ad by Mark Wingfield, which included comments from former chair of the Republican National Committee, Michael Steele: Former RNC head calls new DeSantis ad 'ass-backwards blasphemy'

Segment 3 (starting at 27:35): The implications of former president Donald Trump's re-entrance as a candidate for president

Read Amanda' response to former president Trump's campaign announcement on Twitter at this link.

Read the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement and access resources at this link.

Tune in to see more with Amanda and Holly during our telethon on Giving Tuesday! Tune in starting at 6 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, November 29, to learn more about our work and how you can support our ongoing efforts. You can watch on BJC's Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter pages.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Christian nationalism's influence continues to permeate so many facets of our world, particularly as we approach the midterm elections. Holly and Amanda look at the headline-grabbing ReAwaken America tour events happening across the country, including how Michael Flynn and others are exploiting Christian nationalism in those arenas for political gain. Plus, they review new research about Americans' attitudes toward – and knowledge of – Christian nationalism, Supreme Court justices, and recent court decisions. Amanda and Holly share how these new polls can help all of us in our work calling out and dismantling Christian nationalism in our communities and in ourselves.

SHOW NOTES:

Segment 1: Michael Flynn and the ReAwaken America Tour (starting at 01:02)

Amanda and Holly gave an update on the Christians Against Christian Nationalism initiative in episode 3.

You can watch the PBS Frontline special "Michael Flynn's Holy War" at this link.

Amanda spoke to Michelle Smith from the Associated Press for this story: Michael Flynn's ReAwaken roadshow recruits 'army of God'

Read the report on Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection from BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation at this link: https://bjconline.org/jan6report/

Amanda and Holly mentioned these articles about the ReAwaken America rally at Spooky Nook in central Pennsylvania:

• Right-wing roadshow promotes Christian nationalism before midterms by Annie Gowan for The Washington Post
• COVID-19, rigged elections and a prophecy from God: Clay Clark's ReAwaken America tour comes to Lancaster by Carter Walker for Lancaster Online

Segment 2: A growing interest and concern about Christian nationalism (starting at 14:46)

Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement here.

Andrew Whitehead and Sam Perry are the co-authors of Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States

Click here to read the new findings from Pew Research Center with the headline "45% of Americans Say U.S. Should Be a 'Christian Nation'"

Holly answers the question "Is the United States a Christian nation?" in this video.

Segment 3: Christian nationalism and the midterm elections (starting at 26:48)

Read the results of the PRRI 2022 American Values Survey at this link. Watch a video presentation of the October 27 release event at this link.

Read the results of the FiveThirtyEight/PerryUndem/YouGov survey at this link.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Debates about access to abortion are often intertwined with religion, and the conversation is changing in light of the Supreme Court's decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, which overturned Roe v. Wade and the federal constitutional right to an abortion. Amanda and Holly review some of the public and academic commentaries on the intersection of abortion and religion, and they look at religious liberty arguments being made for abortion access and what it takes to make a religious liberty claim.

SHOW NOTES Segment 1: What was the driving force behind the Dobbs decision? (starting at 00:55)

Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece in The New York Times by Linda Greenhouse: Religious Doctrine, Not the Constitution, Drove the Dobbs Decision

Amanda and Holly discussed the leaked Dobbs draft in episode 16 of season 3.

Segment 2: The role of religion in current abortion debates (starting at 12:46)

Amanda and Holly discussed this article by Samira Mehta for Religion News Service: There is no one 'religious view' on abortion: A scholar of religion, gender and sexuality explains

Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Ana Marie Cox in Texas Monthly: Before Roe, Faith Leaders Helped Texans Get Illegal Abortions. What Will They Do Now?

Click here for a resource from the New York Times on the different laws in states across the country regarding abortion.

Amanda and Holly mentioned two articles written by Kelsey Dallas for Deseret News:

• Do abortion bans violate the establishment clause?
• Does religious freedom law give you a right to abortion?

Segment 3: Establishment Clause claims regarding abortion (starting at 31:41)

Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece by Elizabeth Dias for The New York Times: Inside the Extreme Effort to Punish Women for Abortion and her appearance on The Daily podcast episode titled The Effort to Punish Women for Having Abortions

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

It's been three years since the launch of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism initiative. In this episode, Amanda and Holly discuss what we've learned since convening that project and how the conversation is changing today. They share about accusations we've heard over the project's lifetime, why we are seeing this topic in the media more often, and the odd ways the public discourse is shifting.

SHOW NOTES: Segment one (starting at 00:47): A brief history of Christians Against Christian Nationalism

Prior episodes of this podcast series discussing Christian nationalism include:

• S3, Ep. 19: Gun culture and Christian nationalism in America (June 16, 2022)
• S3, Ep. 18: Christian nationalism and election season 2022 (June 2, 2022)
• S3, Ep. 12: Christian nationalism and January 6 (Feb. 17, 2022)
• S1, Ep. 11: Christian nationalism during the coronavirus pandemic (April 30, 2020)

Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.

Visit this link for the Christians Against Christian Nationalism library of resources including:

• Our 2019 podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism and corresponding discussion guide
• One-page explainer on Christian nationalism
• Frequently Asked Questions

Visit BJC's YouTube channel for a playlist of videos addressing frequently asked questions, including:

• What is Christian Nationalism, and how is it different from Christianity?
• Is the United States a "Christian nation"?

Read the joint report from BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link.

Visit BJC's library of resources at BJConline.org/christian-nationalism

Segment two (starting at 11:40): Where are we now in the battle against Christian nationalism?

We played two clips from members of Congress:

• Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene in a panel discussion at CPAC Texas 2022
• Rep. Lauren Boebert speaking at Cornerstone Christian Center in Basalt, Colorado

The joint AP / PBS Frontline investigation on the rise of Gen. Michael Flynn and the ReAwaken America tour includes this article by Michelle Smith and Richard Lardner: "Michael Flynn's ReAwaken road show recruits 'Army of God'"

The PBS Frontline Special titled "Michael Flynn's Holy War" is available at this link.

Read Amanda's op-ed for CNN.com: Marjorie Taylor Greene's words on Christian nationalism are a wake-up call

As mentioned, Amanda has been on several programs recently discussing Christian nationalism. Here are a few:

• Up Front, a program on Al Jazeera English
• Ayman, a program on MSNBC on Peacock
• Reality Check with John Avlon, a program on CNN

Segment three (starting at 27:04): Lessons learned as we continue the cause

Amanda was interviewed for this article in Texas Monthly by Bekah McNeel: Decoding the Christian Language of Texas GOP Officials

You're invited! Join us October 26 at 7 p.m. Eastern Time in-person at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. or online for a special event: "How White Christian Nationalism Threatens Our Democracy". Amanda will be alongside The Most Rev. Michael Curry (Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church) and Dr. Samuel Perry (the co-author of The Flag and the Cross: White Christian Nationalism and the Threat to American Democracy). The conversation will be moderated by the Rev. Jim Wallis, who is director of the Georgetown University Center on Faith and Justice. Visit this Eventbrite link for registration and livestream details.

What are Amanda and Holly watching in the new Supreme Court term? They preview 303 v. Elenis, a case involving a woman who says she doesn't want to design wedding websites for same-sex couples, and compare it to the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, in which the Court avoided the main question. Amanda and Holly also discuss an order from the Court's "shadow docket" involving Yeshiva University's refusal to recognize an LGBT club on campus, and they share why we're still watching that case. Plus, hear their reaction to Justice Samuel Alito's speech at a conference in Rome.

SHOW NOTES:

Segment 1: A free speech right to refuse to design wedding websites? (starting at 00:55)

You can contact Amanda and Holly with your thoughts on the show by writing to [email protected].

Learn more about the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case and read BJC's brief at BJConline.org/Masterpiece

Segment 2: The shadow docket decision regarding Yeshiva University (starting at 13:04)

Read a brief recap of the Yeshiva decision on our website.

Segment #3: Justice Alito's summer statements in Rome (starting at 19:24)

Amanda and Holly discussed this speech by Justice Samuel Alito.

They also mentioned this feature on Justice Alito in the New Yorker, written by Margaret Talbot: Justice Alito's Crusade Against a Secular America Isn't Over

Amanda and Holly discussed this piece by Professor Alan Brownstein on the different uses of the word "public," published by The Hill: Religion in the public square

See a list of our previous episodes by visiting RespectingReligion.org.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.