Saved by the City

It's 2025, and the vibes feel a bit...off.

It's been nearly five years since the murder of George Floyd and the national and global protests it sparked. Since then, we've seen local efforts to stop public schools from teaching about racism in America; withdrawal of federal funding for DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) programs; and a broad attitude shift against various progressive causes. How do white Americans, especially white women, stay engaged in the work of racial justice when the headlines have moved on and when 'woke' is considered weak? This week, Katelyn and Roxy speak with Latasha Morrison, founder of Be the Bridge, on pursuing justice for the long haul and what gives her hope amid our anti-DEI moment. We also hear from a longtime Be the Bridge participant, Margo Yoder, on why relationships and proximity to real people matter more than social media posting.

GUEST: Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, a nonprofit that promotes racial reconciliation and education, and author of the bestselling book Be the Bridge as well as the 2024 follow-up, Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration.

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Pope Francis was a man of the people. Will the next pope be?

After 12 years as the head of the Catholic church — and the most famous Christian in the world — Pope Francis died on Monday (April 21) at 88. A charismatic reformer, the first Latin American pope and the first Jesuit pope, Francis was beloved well beyond the Catholic church. As world leaders, Catholic faithful and cardinals from around the globe travel to the Vatican this week to mourn Francis, talk of his successor has also begun. The Conclave — made all the more intriguing to many by the recent Oscar nominated movie of the same name — will take place in the coming days and the lists of "papabile," or favored successors, are already rolling in. Katelyn and Roxy are joined by Claire Giangravé, RNS's voice of the Vatican, for a reflection on Francis's legacy and a sneak preview of the Vatican drama to come.

GUEST:

Claire Giangravé is a Rome-based reporter for RNS, covering the Catholic Church and the Vatican.

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Good Friday and Easter are basically the pinnacle of the Christian calendar. What it all centers on. But in recent years we’ve seen a lot of angst over what Jesus’ death on the cross and his resurrection really mean — and if what people grew up believing about them might be all wrong. We're talking, of course, about PSA — or penal substitutionary atonement theory. For some, this explanation of what happened on the cross has become more obstacle than on-ramp to Christianity. And has left many wondering — why did Jesus have to die, really? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dust off their theologian caps for a little lesson on historical atonement theories. And, with guest Brian Zahnd, imagine new (and old) ways of approaching the cross that go beyond theory.

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Chappell Roan says all her friends with kids are in hell. A popular subreddit asks "does anyone else just… not like kids?" A crowd of the usual suspects — pro-natalists, theo bros and mom influencers — pounce on these examples to decry our increasingly "anti-kid" and "childless cat lady" culture. Is this just a recycled generational debate — feminists vs homemakers but this time on TikTok — or is there something new going on here? Are some women (and men too, though maybe to less pearl clutching) just saying the quiet part out loud? That parenthood is really hard and changes your life, not always in super positive ways. That kids can be difficult to handle in public places. Or is this a true shift in public thinking — toward a less kid inclusive world? Katelyn and Roxy explore these questions and look at the evidence (data dump, anyone?), as we also ask: What role do children play in the Church and in Christian life?

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Did you know there are piles of guidebooks meant to help women excel at being the church's first lady? From how to step out of a car when pulling up to church on Sunday, to preparing the perfect casserole, to keeping the kids smiling and still in the front pew. And those dirty dishes in the sink? They could be the talk of the lady's luncheon if you're not careful. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dig into the pile of expectations put on pastor's wives — and the idea that his ministry must be her ministry.

As a woman newly wed to a priest, Roxy wonders what those expectations mean for her — and which parts of this role to lean into and which to resist. And Katelyn ... well, Katelyn has some new reasons to care too (listen to find out!). We talk with historian Beth Allison Barr about why the role of pastor's wife has evolved in many denominations to be the primary path of ministry for some women.

Plus: The Millennial Girl Boss's Guide to Being the Pastor's Wife (as cringe as you'd expect!)

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What’s the woo-iest thing you believe in? Angels and demons? Ghosts? Astrology? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dabble in the metaphysical and get curious about the mystical. We also wonder if maybe we’ve gotten a little too skeptical of the spiritual? Enter our guest today: New York Times columnist, UFO enthusiast and religion apologist, Ross Douthat. We discuss the allure of the supernatural, the dangers of syncretism and why religion is the rational choice.

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Katelyn and Roxy both moved to New York City with a dream of starting fresh and the promise of a new life with new adventures, new friends and new romance. And, to be honest, New York delivered on pretty much all of that. It's a great city! But it's not the only city — and moving here cost us too. Money, yes, but also stability and roots and proximity to long-time friends. We've both moved from city to city over the years, and we've gained gifts in each but we've also come to realize that age-old truth: wherever you go, there you are. On this episode, we explore the benefits of staying put and putting down roots — even as we celebrate our nomadic adventures. We are joined by Methodist minister and author Lydia Sohn who helps us see the spiritual roots of making home.

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Were you more of a truth person or a dare person? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy revisit some of the Capital T-truths of their youth group days and dare to say "maybe I don't believe that anymore." From hell to dinosaurs to midnight demons, we go there. And we're joined by Erin Hicks Moon, who isn’t afraid to ask the big, thorny questions about modern faith. Questions like: What if this whole Christian thing is just a man-made system used to control people? Why does it feel like so many Christians have lost their ding-dang minds? And, when is the Mexican Pizza coming back on the Taco Bell menu?

Chapter Markers

0:00 - Do You Know Where You’re Going? (And Why We All Panicked)

3:10 - Truth or Dare: Evangelical Edition

7:00 - What’s the Most Embarrassing Dare You’ve Done?

9:49 - Asking Big Questions: What If None of This Is Real?

12:47 - The Fear of Hell & Writing to Brio Magazine

15:57 - Rapture Trauma: The Ultimate Sleep Paralysis Demon

18:00 - The Bible, Dinosaurs, and Why We Were That Kid at Church Camp

22:17 - If God Is Good, Why Is the World So Messed Up?

26:39 - Evangelicals and the Fear of Questioning Faith

30:34 - Erin Moon Joins to Talk About I've Got Questions

36:12 - Why Have So Many Christians Lost Their Minds?

40:47 - The Biggest Shift in Faith Since Our Youth Group Days

46:17 - What If Asking Questions Breaks Your Faith?

50:55 - Where to Go When You Don’t Know What You Believe

54:42 - Most Googled Questions of All Time (And Our Best Guesses)

55:47 - Outro & What’s Coming Next

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It's toxic. It's sinful. It's compassion corrupted. It's ruining the world and is definitely at the root of all the bad things. What is this fresh evil? Empathy, of course! Or so says a growing faction of Christians with very loud voices. On this first episode of a brand new season, Katelyn and Roxy try to trace this argument back to its roots and figure out how a trait that seems so virtuous — so Christian — became the bogeyman for a new movement of conservative evangelicals.

Plus: a sickness story swap and the punishing timeline nobody asked for.

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Core memory: flipping the Bible open to a random page, pointing with eyes closed to a verse, and "claiming" that verse as God's answer to the particular problem of that day. Whew. Where did we get that idea? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dig into those formative experiences with the Bible, many of them shaped by an evangelical approach to Bible reading and interpretation. We reflect on why Bible reading has become so complicated (even triggering?) as adults. What would it take to approach the Bible afresh — or, at least, with curiosity? We are joined by author and theologian Kaitlyn Schiess who offers some perspective on the use and abuse of the Bible in the public square, as well as some wisdom for when you want to pick the Good Book up again. Plus, listener Rachel shares her own grown up journey of learning to love the Bible.

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