Smart Friends

It's been five years since the Almanack of Naval Ravikant was published.

I spent the day with Naval expanding on key ideas from the book. We recorded hours of that conversation to share with you.

This episode is a portion of that long conversation that talks about Philosophy

You can purchase the new expanded edition with nearly 4 hours of new material on Audible here:

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Almanack-of-Naval-Ravikant-Audiobook/B0FBCP1JWJ

Chapters:

00:00 Meditations, Authenticity & Schopenhauer

03:00 God, Kids, or Mission – Sources of Meaning

06:00 Truth, Heresies & Group Consensus

09:00 Evolution, Buddhism & Quantum Physics

15:00 Simulation Theory vs. Consciousness

18:00 Religion, Science & Contemporary Lenses

21:00 Live for Something Larger Than Yourself

24:00 Reading, Philosophy & Timeless Books

27:00 Pursuing Happiness, Wealth & Status Indirectly

30:00 Fun Criterion & Learning Through Curiosity

33:00 Risk, Conviction & Building the Impossible

36:00 Retirement, Truth, Love & Beauty

39:00 Endgame Content & Playing Without Fear

42:00 Wealth, Enlightenment & Contradictory Desires

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

Naval Ravikant on Building Wealth

It's been five years since the Almanack of Naval Ravikant was published.

I spent the day with Naval expanding on key ideas from the book. We recorded hours of that conversation to share with you.

This episode is a portion of that long conversation that talks about Building Wealth

You can purchase the new expanded edition with nearly 4 hours of new material on Audible here:

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Almanack-of-Naval-Ravikant-Audiobook/B0FBCP1JWJ

00:00 Defining Wealth

03:00 Knowledge as the True Multiplier

09:00 Ethics of Wealth Creation & Capitalism

15:00 Progress, Optimism & Conjecture

21:00 Scale, Governance & Morality

27:00 Products, Knowledge & Hard-to-Vary Designs

36:00 Closing Reflections

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro(00:03:26) - Marathon misadventures(00:06:15) - The failed acquisition(00:13:47) - Lessons from the deal(00:29:31) - The future of retail(00:33:44) - Empathy for founders(00:35:23) - The grind of capitalism(00:35:37) - Challenges for young founders(00:36:10) - The importance of peer support(00:37:17) - Scaling and growth pains(00:37:42) - Exciting new ventures(00:38:20) - Genetic engineering innovations(00:43:40) - Revolutionizing air freight with airships(00:49:56) - Terraform Industries: Energy independence(01:02:17) - Innovative warehouse automation(01:05:25) - Mining industry disruption(01:09:45) - Conclusion and future outlook

Links:

Join us in Rolling Fun!

Hear our other Rolling Fun eps!

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

Why personal networks matter most when raising money quickly for big deals

New investments in companies building genetically engineered animals, advanced airships, and solar-powered synthetic natural gas

How real operational experience shapes the way we invest and support founders

The balance of optimism and realism required to keep taking shots in business

Quotes from Al:

“Just keep taking the shots. A shooter’s gotta shoot.”

“Sometimes you take the shot, do everything right, and the ball still doesn’t go in.”

“There’s no classy way to advertise, ‘Hey, your favorite store died—but we’re a good rebound.’”

“Capitalism is an unforgiving mistress.”

“Personal relationships were the most valuable asset I had in that deal.”

“Sometimes I think, ‘I should be inventing Facebook 2,’ but here I am—investing in fabric.”

“I’ve never worked on a deal that hard. It should have gone my way… and didn’t.”

“You wake up the next morning and it didn’t happen, but I still have a great family, and my business is still running.”

“It's hard until it isn’t—and even when it isn’t, it’s still freaking hard.”

Quotes from Bo:

“We’re actual operators—curious about what’s possible with technology—and that makes us better investors.”

“On a Thursday, ‘This deal is happening.’ Then Tuesday? ‘It’s over. We lost.’”

“We have a unique amount of empathy for founders—because we know how hard this shit is.”

“If you can pull it off, it’s transformational. And that’s awesome.” (on Airship)

“A blimp is not a quadcopter to carry Al’s big ass—it’s an elegant, slow-moving blimp.”

“There’s a lot of industries still doing 90/10 in-store sales. That blew my mind.”

“It’s a real ‘software is eating the world’ moment—but finally arriving at the mining industry.”

“When you’re building something that matters, you’re playing the long game—even if the outcome is uncertain.”

“The people who make glow-in-the-dark fish… now they’re building unicorns. And yeah, it’s gonna happen.”

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro

 (00:01:46) - Personal updates and new ventures

 (00:04:06) - The youth sports complex project

 (00:05:21) - Challenges and strategies in youth sports business

 (00:09:09) - Community impact and future vision

 (00:19:00) - Reflections on education and parenting

 (00:34:05) - The magic of holding a newborn

 (00:34:32) - The joys and challenges of parenting

 (00:35:07) - Balancing work and family life

 (00:37:36) - Exciting company updates

 (00:38:03) - Success stories in venture capital

 (00:40:55) - Innovations in space and technology

 (00:47:19) - The future of asteroid mining

 (00:54:34) - Revolutionizing construction and robotics

 (00:59:01) - Battery technology breakthroughs

 (01:03:59) - Conclusion and next steps

Links:

Join us in Rolling Fun!

Hear our other Rolling Fun eps!

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

Bo is turning around a Youth Sports Complex that was losing millions/year.

“Never skip a funeral and always hold a baby”

Investment updates across nuclear energy, asteroid mining, robotics, and batteries.

Why enthusiasm, networks, and timing matter so much in early-stage investing.

Quotes from Bo:

"This was like 11 businesses stuffed into one building… and none of them were working yet."

"My job right now is teaching people who love what they do how it fits into a business."

"We get 2 to 3 calls a week from private equity firms, and I tell them all: don’t do it."

"It’s a 600-person organization… a real thing with real complexity."

"Maybe it’s a $30 million business—manageable, understandable, and ridiculously high impact."

"It’s a cartel-organized market. You need to be a trusted actor to even play in it."

"Helping it really succeed is time well spent—for Kansas City, for the kids, and for everyone here."

"The youth sports market is a $40 to $80 billion space, and it’s on fire."

"There’s not a lot of credible business builders in this space—and I haven’t found another one yet."

"In 50 years, this will be even more awesome. I love working on stuff like that."

Quotes from Al:

"You couldn't just copy-paste this business into another city. You need deep trust and local knowledge."

"This is a fun community challenge. If you get it right, you leave a real legacy."

"I texted Bo—‘We did it’—because Eric and Jeannine had a baby. That’s how we all felt."

"The bond between dad and baby isn’t immediate. But it grows—and it’s worth it."

"I fixed the cheeseburger at Home Field before Bo was even involved."

"Once you have a baby, every infant photo becomes magic."

"The best underappreciated part of being an entrepreneur? You can get your kids working early."

Important Quotes from the podcast on Business and Entrepreneurship

There is no skill called “business.” Avoid business magazines and business classes. - Naval Ravikant

You have to work up to the point where you can own equity in a business. You could own equity as a small shareholder where you bought stock. You could also own it as an owner where you started the company. Ownership is really important.  

Everybody who really makes money at some point owns a piece of a product, a business, or some IP. That can be through stock options if you work at a tech company. That’s a fine way to start.

***This is a Replay Episode***

Links for Matt’s stuff:

⁠Aalo.com⁠

⁠Matt on Twitter⁠

⁠Aalo on Twitter⁠

⁠Aalo Job Board⁠

Link to invest alongside Eric in deals like Aalo: rolling.fun

Links to stuff mentioned:

⁠Decouple Podcast⁠

⁠Titans of Nuclear Podcast⁠

⁠Nuclear Barbarian Substack⁠

⁠Atomic Awakening by James Mahaffey⁠

⁠Why Nuclear Power Has Been a Flop by Jack Devanney⁠

Topics:

(00:03:08) How the popular opinion of nuclear has changed from the 1950’s

(00:15:16) The regulation issues surrounding nuclear

(00:17:20) Water-based nuclear reactors vs. advanced nuclear reactors

(00:19:40) Matt’s journey into nuclear energy

(00:34:42) Aalo’s strategy

(00:41:12) What is the TAM for this nuclear microreactors?

(00:45:53) The manufacturing process for a nuclear plant

(00:48:51) The nuclear supply chain

(00:50:01) The change in public opinion on nuclear energy

(00:55:56) Support for nuclear energy in the VC world

(01:01:12) Recommendations for learning more about the sustainable energy industry

(01:03:30) What do you look for when hiring?

To support this podcast:

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanak: ⁠www.navalmanack.com/⁠

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

Important quotes from Naval on building wealth and the difference between wealth and money:

How to get rich without getting lucky. - Naval Ravikant

Making money is not a thing you do—it’s a skill you learn. - Naval Ravikant

Seek wealth, not money or status. - Naval Ravikant

Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep. - Naval Ravikant

Money is how we transfer time and wealth. - Naval Ravikant

Ignore people playing status games. They gain status by attacking people playing wealth creation games. 

You’re not going to get rich renting out your time. You must own equity—a piece of a business—to gain your financial freedom. - Naval Ravikant

Important quotes from the podcast by Naval on Leverage:

“Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand, and I will move the earth.” 

—Archimedes 

To get rich, you need leverage. Leverage comes in labor, comes in capital, or it can come through code or media. But most of these, like labor and capital, people have to give to you. For labor, somebody has to follow you. For capital, somebody has to give you money, assets to manage, or machines. - Naval Ravikant

Capital and labor are permissioned leverage. Everyone is chasing capital, but someone has to give it to you. Everyone is trying to lead, but someone has to follow you. - Naval Ravikant

Code and media are permissionless leverage. They’re the leverage behind the newly rich. You can create software and media that works for you while you sleep. - Naval Ravikant

If you can’t code, write books and blogs, record videos and podcasts. - Naval Ravikant

Leverage is a force multiplier for your judgment. - Naval Ravikant

Apply specific knowledge, with leverage, and eventually you will get what you deserve. - Naval Ravikant

Important Quotes from the podcast on Business and Entrepreneurship

There is no skill called “business.” Avoid business magazines and business classes. - Naval Ravikant

You have to work up to the point where you can own equity in a business. You could own equity as a small shareholder where you bought stock. You could also own it as an owner where you started the company. Ownership is really important.  

Everybody who really makes money at some point owns a piece of a product, a business, or some IP. That can be through stock options if you work at a tech company. That’s a fine way to start. 

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro (00:01:37) - The Netflix documentary: Misrepresentation and struggles (00:03:19) - Writing the memoir (00:08:47) - The challenges of independent publishing (00:12:40) - The creative process and future plans (00:35:23) - Impact of the book on readers (00:36:04) - Scripted series and unused content (00:36:36) - New docuseries and correcting the narrative (00:37:04) - Psychological analysis in documentaries (00:40:13) - Challenges and rewards of writing (00:41:36) - Unexpected positive outcomes (00:45:38) - Vulnerability of publishing a memoir (00:49:44) - Future aspirations and business rebuilding (00:53:54) - Experience with Scribe Publishing (01:02:59) - Advice for aspiring authors

Links:

People: Andrew Huberman — https://hubermanlab.com/about David Goggins — https://davidgoggins.com Eric Jorgenson — https://www.ericjorgenson.com Mary Karr — https://english.utexas.edu/people/mary-karr Paul Millerd — https://www.pathlesspath.com Sarma Melngailis — https://thegirlandtheduck.com Tim Ferriss — https://tim.blog

Podcasts: Huberman Lab — https://hubermanlab.com The Tim Ferriss Show — https://tim.blog/podcast

Companies: Scribe — https://scribemedia.com

Websites / Tools / Platforms: Scrivener — https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview The Girl and the Duck (Sarma’s memoir site) — https://thegirlandtheduck.com

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

What the Netflix docuseries got wrong—and how she’s correcting it.

The emotional and creative process of writing a 200,000-word memoir over eight years.

How storytelling, honesty, and empathy can help others escape manipulative relationships.

Quotes from Sam:

“I was in a cult of one.”

“People very often don't understand how this happens to someone who’s intelligent, who went to a good school, and started a business. But it does happen.”

“I started writing immediately after I got out of jail.”

“I had no editorial control... They basically changed the reality of what happened.” (on the Bad Vegan docuseries)

“I didn’t want anybody telling me what I can and can’t put in there... I wanted to have control over my story.”

“The book is long because I needed the reader to go through the psychological experience with me.”

“I have all my receipts. I included actual journal entries, G-chats, texts, and emails.”

“The writing was therapeutic, but also grueling. Sometimes I felt like I was crawling up the wall and slithering out of my skin.”

“I want the story to be useful. That’s what I’ve wanted all along.”

“People tell me, ‘I don’t read books anymore, but I read yours.’ That feels amazing.”

“Even if you're never going to publish it, writing about what happened to you can bring real relief.”

“I turned down a deal with a major studio because I didn’t want to give up control of my story again.”

“It wasn’t about power—it was about protecting the integrity of the story.”

“Someone told me they left a toxic relationship because of reading my book. That alone makes it all worth it.”

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro

(00:03:14) - The magic of code

(00:05:30) - The wonder of early computing

(00:11:13) - The evolution of computing: From analog to digital

(00:18:45) - The personal computer revolution

(00:32:36) - The future of computing: Beyond silicon

(00:36:59) - The importance of computing history

(00:40:53) - AI and human uniqueness

(00:50:46) - The future of AI and computing interfaces

(01:02:13) - The intersection of playfulness and utility in computing

(01:11:17) - Conclusion and final thoughts

Links:

Books: God & Golem, Inc. — https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262730065/god--golem-inc

In the Beginning... Was the Command Line — https://www.harpercollins.com/products/in-the-beginning-was-the-command-line-neal-stephenson

I, Robot — https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/180504/i-robot-by-isaac-asimov

The Half-Life of Facts — https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/310285/the-half-life-of-facts-by-sam-arbesman

The Magic of Code — https://themagicofcode.com

Tubes: A Journey to the Center of the Internet — https://www.harpercollins.com/products/tubes-andrew-blum

People:

Eric Jorgenson — https://www.ericjorgenson.com

Sam Arbesman — https://arbesman.net

Podcasts:

The Orthogonal Bet — https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-orthogonal-bet/id1682641800

Companies:

Lux Capital — https://www.luxcapital.com tldraw — https://www.tldraw.com

Websites / Tools / Platforms:

Arbesman.net — https://arbesman.net

Internet Archive Spacewar Emulation — https://archive.org/details/spacewar_202301

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

Why software can be seen as ACTUAL MAGIC

The combination of history and science fiction for more accurate prediction

The phases of computing technology, and what might be next after silicon

The creative opportunities for the future of software

Quotes from Sam:

“Software is absolutely magic. It's wizardry. It's sorcery. Nobody gets it.”

“We actually can use text and code to affect the world around us.”

“Computing should almost be this humanistic liberal art—it should connect to language and philosophy and art.”

“Code is not a substance, but it operates in the world.”

“Computers are weird everything machines.”

“We’re shielded from the vast complexity of computing—until something goes wrong.”

“People used to build computers in their garages. Now we can’t even open them.”

“Unix is like the Epic of Gilgamesh of computing—it’s been around for decades and it’s still foundational.”

“AI is powerful, but it’s part of a much longer conversation around tools for thought.”

“Biology is a wildly different computer than anything we would ever use to compute with.”

“Science fiction doesn’t always predict well, but it gives us worlds we can aim toward.”

“I want more weird, playful experimentation in computing—something beyond the chat interface.”

“Computing history is so young that many of the pioneers are still around to email.”

“Ultimately, all these tools were developed for people. They’re meant to be in service of humans.”

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro

(00:04:19) - Entering the VC space

(00:08:38) - Pilot-fund theories

(00:12:50) - Risk tracking

(00:19:56) - Finding LP alignment

(00:22:39) - Arkady’s fund thesis

(00:47:12) - Creating the index of solutions to problems

(00:57:18) - The TAM for VC in 2025

(01:00:29) - How founders can increase the odds of being funded by Arkady

(01:03:36) - False signals in VC

Links:

Arkady on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arkady-kulik/

Arkady on X - https://x.com/arkady_kulik

Rpv.global - https://rpv.global/

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

How speaking the language of scientists helps Arkady build real trust with founders.

The AI tournament model he uses to identify 300 hidden human needs.

Focusing on problems first, then funding an index of possible solutions.

What he looks for in both founders and LPs.

Why honesty beats hype every time.

Why DPI is the only VC metric that actually matters.

Quotes from David:

“You don’t prove your worth as a VC until you return capital to your LPs. DPI is the only metric that matters.”

“The VC game is full of false positives—in evaluating companies and in how LPs evaluate VCs.”

“The best thing an investor can do is give a quick yes; the next best is a quick no. Lingering maybes are the worst.”

“Our technical unlock was agentic AI—it lets us evaluate hundreds of emerging needs for humanity in days, not years.”

“We want to be the first check because what matters most is building deep trust with the founder, not just valuation.”

“If you sold LPs on a strategy and you quietly abandon it, that’s a breach of trust—it's like cheating in a marriage.”

“A lot of people go into VC for ego or fast money. They won’t survive. This is a long, emotionally volatile game.”

“Stop wasting your life and start making a difference. If you’re a founder, build what only you can build.”

“There’s nothing wrong with saying no—it’s how you say it that matters.”

“The founder's mistake is assuming your investors will make money just because you do.”

“Great founders don't oversell—they're clear, calm, and self-aware.”

Important Quotes from the podcast on Business and Entrepreneurship

There is no skill called “business.” Avoid business magazines and business classes. - Naval Ravikant

You have to work up to the point where you can own equity in a business. You could own equity as a small shareholder where you bought stock. You could also own it as an owner where you started the company. Ownership is really important.  

Everybody who really makes money at some point owns a piece of a product, a business, or some IP. That can be through stock options if you work at a tech company. That’s a fine way to start. 

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro

(00:03:52) - The Founder's book project

(00:04:06) - Effort and building relationships

(00:11:20) - The value of self-publishing

(00:24:00) - Bootstrapping a HoldCo

(00:46:05) - Finding natural fit in business

(00:47:48) - The role of trust in business

(00:49:07) - AI and changing perspectives

(00:50:26) - Daily use of AI tools

(00:55:49) - The value of deep research

(00:57:53) - The future of AI in business

(01:16:35) - Avoiding addictive apps

(01:18:27) - Collecting and using maxims

(01:20:45) - The power of lists

(01:24:40) - Collapsing organizational gaps

(01:28:05) - The role of AI in reducing friction

(01:29:59) - Closing remarks and recommendations

Links:

Andrew Wilkinson — https://twitter.com/awilkinsonDavid Senra — https://twitter.com/founderspodcastEric Jorgenson — https://twitter.com/ericjorgensonMitchell Baldridge — https://twitter.com/baldridgecpaNick Huber — https://twitter.com/sweatystartup

Eric Jorgenson — https://ejorgenson.com

Founders Podcast — https://www.founderspodcast.com

Better Bookkeeping — https://www.betterbookkeeping.comRE Cost Seg — https://www.recostseg.comScribe — https://scribemedia.com

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

>> Buy a copy of The Anthology of Balaji: https://balajianthology.com/

>> Sign up for my online course and community about building your Personal Leverage: https://www.ejorgenson.com/leverage 

>> Invest in early-stage companies alongside Eric and his partners at Rolling Fun: https://angel.co/v/back/rolling-fun

>> Join the free weekly email list at ejorgenson.com/newsletter

>> Text the podcast to a friend

>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

How extreme effort and agency created the opportunity to publish the Founders' book.

The economics, longevity, and cultural value of self-published books.

Bootstrapping and scaling a HoldCo with multiple service businesses.

Practical uses of AI for research, productivity, and creative leverage.

The importance of doing the work for its own sake and loving the process.

Quotes from David:

“You don’t handle the stress—you like it. Or else you wouldn’t be doing this.”

“If you want the ups, you have to endure the downs. That’s just a fact.”

“This is the best version of my life, whether it’s 300 people at a club or 3,000 in a theater.”

“Most people try to keep things even—no extreme highs or lows. But all the exciting shit is in the variance.”

“If you have something else you’d rather be doing, then you should go do that.”

“Books are so valuable because of how long they take to consume.”

“Effort is universal. Doesn’t matter if it’s a garden or a podcast—people respect work.”

“AI is going to wipe out the middle. If you’re average, you’re gone.”

“Sage remembers things I don’t—and that’s priceless.”

“Don’t rush it. Make something great. A good book can sell for 50 years.”

Quotes from Mitchell:

“I get frustrated at how long this takes—but I want to build something meaningful.”

“Turn everything into a car wash. Put the customer into neutral and pull them through.”

“The tax code is getting more complex, but the systems are getting better.”

“AI is going to destroy everything below the 95th percentile.”

“I’m bootstrapping a holdco—and it takes time.”

“Send me a customer, I’ll give you $1,000. Send me 1,000 and I’ll mortgage my house for you.”

“I don’t want 25 meetings a month—I want results.”

Topics:

(00:00:00) - Intro

(00:03:45) - Who are your heroes?

(00:05:16) - What is something you’ve had to teach yourself that’s become a core part of your identity?

(00:07:34) - Taking a sabbatical post-exit

(00:09:30) - Going back into entrepreneurship

(00:12:52) - How to kill two-factor auth

(00:14:34) - When to split a company into two companies

(00:18:04) - Who is the customer of iDeem?

(00:22:37) - Verified Credentials

(00:28:31) - Fighting fraud with technology

(00:30:14) - The story of eyeVerify

(00:49:09) - The new technology trends pushing iDeem

(00:52:01) - The build process of a global start-up from Middle-America

Links:

Ideem - https://www.useideem.com/

Toby on X - https://x.com/TobiasRush

Toby on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiasrush/

To support the costs of producing this podcast: 

>> Buy a copy of the Navalmanack: www.navalmanack.com/ 

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>> Or at least give the podcast a positive review to help us reach new listeners!

We discuss:

Why tying your identity to your company can be both a strength and a liability

The critical decision to shut down a beautiful but unused blockchain product—and return investor money

How trusted digital IDs could change how we prove who we are—from checking out online to entering a secure facility

Why simply having a trusted device could be a stronger way to log in and why invisible two-factor might be the future

What it’s like to run a global fintech startup from Kansas City and the cultural learnings that come with it

Quotes from Toby:

“When the company is dying, that doesn’t mean I’m dying. And when it’s thriving, that doesn’t mean I’m a good person.”

“You should absolutely take a window of time when one chapter ends—just having time to yourself is all the justification you need.”

“Two-factor authentication is alive and well—it’s just invisible now.”

“We reduce friction for the user, fraud for the merchant, and cost for everyone.”

“If you’re serving two totally different customers with one product, you probably have two companies.”

“The magic moment is at checkout—remove friction there and everything gets better.”

“Passwords are terrible. If I can just look at my phone and log in, that’s a win.”

“You need friends who can sing your soul’s song back to you when you’ve lost the melody.”

“From almost out of money to a $100 million term sheet in five weeks—that’s the startup rollercoaster.”

“Authenticity, credibility, and trust are incalculable in value.”

“If the thesis is right but the timing is off, you can build something beautiful that no one uses.”

“Stop with the techno-babble. We won’t call them NFTs—we’ll just call them useful.”

Important Quotes from the podcast on Business and Entrepreneurship

There is no skill called “business.” Avoid business magazines and business classes. - Naval Ravikant

You have to work up to the point where you can own equity in a business. You could own equity as a small shareholder where you bought stock. You could also own it as an owner where you started the company. Ownership is really important.  

Everybody who really makes money at some point owns a piece of a product, a business, or some IP. That can be through stock options if you work at a tech company. That’s a fine way to start.