Strong Feelings

#### Starting something new can feel super overwhelming…and kind of terrifying. The good news? A lot of us feel this way—no, really, that’s the good news! That, and we’re all in this together.

On this week’s show, we talk with Saron Yitbarek about how she started, grew, and nurtures [CodeNewbie](https://www.codenewbie.org/)—the most supportive community of programmers and people learning to code. It all started with one little (but powerful) sentiment: _be nice_. We also talk to her about what it’s like to be new at something, making a place for yourself at the table even if you’re not sure there’s a seat for you, and living up to your own potential.

> I don’t think I’ve ever taken a piece of feedback that I didn’t immediately inside respond with, like, intense anger and, you know, taking offense to it. But…we’re not optimizing for my feelings. And we’re not optimizing for me patting myself on the back. That’s not the point. We’re optimizing for creating a really strong and amazing community and to be a resource for other people.

> —Saron Yitbarek, founder of CodeNewbie

Also in this episode, we:

- Swap stories about first jobs, finding office advocates, and gaining the confidence to take the reins at work.

- Get pumped about summertime vibes and vow to spend a little more time outside, even if it means sweating a little. (A lot.)

And don’t forget to check out CodeNewbie’s [Twitter chat](https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%23CodeNewbie&src=typd), [podcast](https://www.codenewbie.org/podcast), and [Codeland conference](http://codelandconf.com/).

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._


_[WordPress](https://wordpress.com/noyougo)—the place to build your personal blog, business site, or anything else you want on the web. WordPress helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you._

 


_[Harvest](https://www.getharvest.com/), makers of a_

#### Introvert, extrovert, ambivert: how real are these labels? And how can we use them to do a better job of making space for more types of people—without pigeonholing anyone?

We’re joined this week by Rachel Robertson, a designer and UX lead at Shopify. We first heard about Rachel when we stumbled on an article she wrote called “[An Introvert’s Guide to Collaboration](https://ux.shopify.com/an-introverts-guide-to-collaboration-67717d8e03eb).” In it, she talks about how she used to carve out work she could do independently—but realized this was keeping her from growing, because she wasn’t exposing herself to different perspectives that could improve her work.

> I love when people share their experiences and their perspectives… and I always benefit so much from that. So there was a point in time recently where I wanted to participate more in that conversation, and not just be a consumer of everyone else’s points of view.

> —Rachel Robertson, UX lead at Shopify

We ask Rachel more about her experience as an introverted person, how that’s changed her approach to leading a team, and what companies can do to make themselves more inclusive to people like her.

Also in this episode, we:

- Discuss the mixed feelings people had about [these introvert/extrovert lounge signs](https://twitter.com/mspowahs/status/999390594500890625) at [Confab](https://www.confabevents.com/), a conference Sara recently attended.

- Look at the roots of the seemingly innocuous term “[grandfather clause](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/21/239081586/the-racial-history-of-the-grandfather-clause)”

- Give a big _fuck yeah_ to deleting apps, consider the [Time Well Spent](https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/17/16903844/time-well-spent-facebook-tristan-harris-mark-zuckerberg) movement, and promise to really actually close the Twitter tab this time (any second now)

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._


_[WordPress](https://wordpress.com/noyougo)—the place to build your personal blog, business site, or anything else you want on the web. WordPress helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you._

 


#### Savings, budgets, retirement. Oh my. No matter how on top of our lives we feel, talking about money still makes us squirm. And…well, we’re tired of it.

Today on NYG, we talk about where those financial fears come from—and what we’re doing to get over them. To help us out, we chat with [Shannah Compton Game](http://www.yourmillennialmoney.com/about/shannahs-story/), a Certified Financial Planner and the host of the [Millennial Money podcast](http://www.yourmillennialmoney.com/). Shannah’s all about helping people like us get more comfortable thinking and talking about money, and she’s quickly become one of our fave resources for financial info.

> When you don’t talk about something, you feel really isolated, and you feel like you are alone. Like nobody could possibly have the same money issues you have. But the reality that I try to tell everybody is: you’re so wrong! We are all so much alike when it comes to money, especially the things that we’ve not done so well.

> —Shannah Compton Game, host, [Millennial Money](http://www.yourmillennialmoney.com/)

Shannah tells us all about:

- Why money is such a taboo topic (but shouldn’t be)

- Which financial advice to take, and which to ignore

- Why we all hate the B word (budget, ugh)

- Why it’s totally not too late to get your finances in better shape

Also in this episode:

- Sara celebrates her presidential birthday

- Katel survives on pizza by the slice

- Jenn gets deep into the meal prep lifestyle

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._


_[WordPress](https://wordpress.com/noyougo)—the place to build your personal blog, business site, or anything else you want on the web. WordPress helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you._

 


_[Harvest](https://www.getharvest.com/), makers of awesome software to help you track your time, manage your projects, and get paid. Try it fr_

#### Today’s topic is…therapy! If that makes you a little bit nervous, you’re not alone: lots of us feel a bit scared to talk about our mental health—much less make an appointment to get help.

Plus, navigating the mental health system can be challenging: How do you find a therapist? How do you pay for it? How do you know if they’re a good fit? And what happens if you need to break up with them? We have _so many_ questions.

To help us answer them, we called up none other than Katel’s own therapist, Dr. Allison Chabot. She’s a clinical psychologist working in Philadelphia, and talking with her gave us all the best feels.

> Ask your friends. Ask your family. Somebody else has gone to therapy that you know. So many people go to therapy. And you hear positive experiences from people: you hear how it unlocked something, it opened something, it helped them look at themselves in a different way. It is a leap of faith, it really does take courage, but I feel like, what do you have to lose?

>

> — Dr. Allison Chabot

Links from this episode:

- Meditation app [Headspace](https://www.headspace.com/)

- Sliding-scale therapists at the [Philadelphia Society for Clinical Psychologists](http://philadelphiapsychology.org/)

- [Psychology Today therapist finder](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us)

Also in this episode: Jenn goes to a meditation workshop and fucking hates it, Katel shouts her love for therapy from the rooftop, Sara plans her summer lipstick game, and we all get hyped for a #summerofselfies.

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._

_[](https://codepen.io/)[CodePen](https://codepen.io/nyg/?utm_source=no-you-go&utm_medium=podcast)—write code like HTML, CSS, and JavaScript directly in a browser and see the results as you build. CodePen is giving away three free PRO accounts to NYG listeners. Enter at [codepen.io/nyg](https://codepen.io/nyg/?utm_source=no-you-go&utm_medium=podcast)._


#### This week, we get down to the business of being a badass woman in tech with Sarah Drasner, an engineer, author, award-winning speaker, and renowned expert on web animation.

We hear about mentorship, using your profile to help others be seen, building a body of work, and so much more.

> For the first little while I was trying to pull myself up by my bootstraps and just, like, work really hard to kind of get some place where I felt more comfortable—where I was not just taking any job that was offered me. And then the second part of that is to extend whatever privilege I might have to others…to promote the work of other people that are doing great work in the community that might not be seen.

> —Sarah Drasner

We talk with Sarah about:

- What it’s like to write a technical book like _[SVG Animations](http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920045335.do)_, Sarah’s book from O’Reilly last year

- Using machine learning to make images on the web more accessible for blind people

- The benefits of diverse teams

- The badassery of Arlan Hamilton and her company, [Backstage Capital](http://backstagecapital.com/)

- How to get over feeling overlooked in your career (and the secret benefits of being underestimated)

- Mentoring others, finding mentorship for yourself, and getting comfortable in a senior role

- Why the number of women in technical roles [isn’t going up](https://www.salon.com/2017/08/13/google-manifesto-women-in-engineering-declining/)

- How visibility can lead to harassment

Also in this episode, the three of us get real about the pros and cons of showing your age at work, and discuss all the anxieties and double-standards we face when it comes to how we look and what we wear.

- Katel becomes an unofficial spokesperson for [Billie Razors](https://mybillie.com/) (call us, Billie! We can make it official anytime)

- Sara talks about Linguist Deborah Tannen’s 1993 essay, “[There is No Unmarked Woman](http://academics.otc.edu/media/uploads/sites/2/2015/10/There-is-No-Unmarked-Women.pdf)”

- Michelle Wolf [isn’t apologizing](https://www.npr.org/2018/05/01/607262463/comic-michelle-wolf-responds-to-backlash-im-glad-i-stuck-to-my-guns) for her [comedy set at the White House Correspondents Dinner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbx1uArVOM)

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._

_[](https://codepen.io/)_

#### In S2E3, we fall hard for Adda Birnir, founder and CEO of Skillcrush—the online coding school with a heart.

While coding bootcamp programs tend to talk about turning students into rockstar programmer gods, Skillcrush focuses on using tech to build a fulfilling, creative, and sustainable career. And the message is working: after some early ups and downs back in 2012, Adda has taken the business from a fledging idea to a stable, profitable, and growing company of 35 employees. And she’s here to tell us all about it.

> At some point I decided that I wanted the business to survive and I was going to figure out what it would take for it to survive and do that. And that really meant sort of letting go of kind of any idea I had about what the business was going to be.

>

> —Adda Birnir, founder and CEO, [Skillcrush](https://skillcrush.com/)

Listen in for a super-real convo about:

- Bootstrapping a business instead of raising venture capital

- How to bounce back when the bank account runs dry

- Why women are flocking to Skillcrush to learn technical skills—while most bootcamp programs struggle to attract them

- Building [pay equity](https://iwpr.org/issue/employment-education-economic-change/pay-equity-discrimination/) into the heart of how Skillcrush runs

- Making sure you don’t end up hating the company you built

Plus:

- Friend dates, cheese plates, and ordering [as many desserts as possible](https://medium.com/no-you-go/working-with-friends-is-amazing-but-its-still-work-6255ad0854c)

- Vocab swaps for “crazy” and “guys” (for more ideas on this one, check out [this article from The Establishment](https://theestablishment.co/replace-crazy-with-the-adjective-you-actually-mean-425562812da2))

- Morning people: are they a _fuck yeah!_ or a _fuck that_?

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._

_[](https://codepen.io/)[CodePen](https://codepen.io/nyg/?utm_source=no-you-go&utm_medium=podcast)—write code like HTML, CSS, and JavaScript directly in a browser and see the results as you build. CodePen is giving away three free PRO accounts to NYG listeners. Enter at [codepen.io/nyg](https://codepen.io/nyg/?utm_source=no-you-go&utm_medium=podcast)._


#### It’s not every day we chat with someone the _New York Times_ has listed as part of “[the new vanguard](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/books/vanguard-books-by-women-in-21st-century.html)” in fiction. But today’s our day: Carmen Maria Machado is live on NYG!

We sit down with the badass author, National Book Award finalist, and fellow Philly resident for a conversation about writing, working retail, believing in your own work, craving the company of other women, and so much more.

> The art of non-dominant groups can be _trendy_, but we think of men and whiteness and straightness as, like, eternal… And of course that’s fake, right? Like, that’s not real: men, and white, and straight, and cis, and all those things… are not neutral, but we think of them as neutral.

> —[Carmen Maria Machado](http://www.carmenmariamachado.com), author, [_Her Body and Other Parties_](https://carmenmariamachado.com/her-body-and-other-parties/)

Here’s what we cover:

- The “fat women with fat minds” of Carmen’s “[The Trash Heap Has Spoken](https://www.guernicamag.com/the-trash-heap-has-spoken/)” essay in _Guernica_

- How a retreat at the [Millay Colony for the Arts](https://www.millaycolony.org/) kickstarted her writing career

- The wild popularity of “[The Husband Stitch](https://granta.com/the-husband-stitch/),” Carmen’s story in _Granta_ (which, like, just read it already)

- What it’s like to go from working at the mall to full-fledged famous author in a few short years

- The exploitative mess of the [adjunct teaching market](https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/o-adjunct-my-adjunct)

- Carmen’s review of Danielle Lazarin’s new book, _[Backtalk](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/books/review/back-talk-danielle-lazarin.html)_, and how women internalize the “slow, invisible grind” of misogyny

- Why Claire Vaye Watkins’ essay “[On Pandering](http://tinhouse.com/on-pandering/)” and Kristen Roupenian’s short story “[Cat Person](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/11/cat-person)” struck such a nerve

- Craving the company of women in a culture full of far too much bullshit

- Finding the confidence to divest from sexist culture, take up space, and acknowledge your talents out loud

Plus: why city snobbery is bullshit, the incredible joys and [health benefits](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-perfect-nap-sleeping-is-a-mix-of-art-and-science-1378155665) of naps (seriously, just thinking about a nap can even [lower your blood pressure](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/important-reasons-to-nap_us_5aa6805be4b086698a9fb30c))—and why y’all should just [visit Philly](https://www.visitphilly.com/) already.

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._


#### Welcome back! We’re pumped to have you here for Season 2. Here to kick us off is Neha Gandhi, the COO and editor-in-chief of Girlboss, a new publication “for women redefining success on their own terms.” Sounds about right to us.

Neha told us all about her start in journalism, what it’s like to manage teams of mostly women, and how group texts with her friends keep her grounded (you’ll LOVE the rosebud and thorn analogy, promise).

> First of all, maybe it’s ok to be selfish and put yourself first, and put your career first at times. But also, ambition is not a dirty word. That said, none of us feel ambitious all the time, and none of us have exactly the same idea of what success looks like.

> —[Neha Gandhi](https://twitter.com/nehaintown), editor-in-chief and COO, Girlboss

Plus: Having good and bad managers, _being_ good and bad managers, and what we’re doing to cut noninclusive and ableist language from the show. Y’all ready?

### Link love

- If you enjoy our convo about manager-ing, check this advice column from _The Cut_ about [being a better manager by being vulnerable with your team](https://www.thecut.com/article/ask-a-boss-im-afraid-to-show-any-weakness-at-work.html).

- Get more on Neha’s background with this [interview](https://www.girlboss.com/girlboss/meet-the-editors-neha-gandhi), and [follow her on Twitter](https://twitter.com/nehaintown) for more on pop culture, politics, and the media industry.

- To hear from speakers like Paola Mendoza and Janet Mock, [register for the Girlboss Rally livestream](https://www.girlbossrally.com/) on April 28.

- For more on the topic of gratefulness and negotiating, check out [this advice](https://www.girlboss.com/girlboss/negotiation-tips-promotion-promotion-without-raise) on how to negotiate when you’re being promoted.

- And if you’re interested in learning more about inclusive language—and maybe tweaking some of your own habits—check out this [list of ableist words](http://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html) and the [Conscious Style Guide](https://consciousstyleguide.com/).

- Use Slack at work? See if you can get your company to customize Slackbot to [nudge your team when they use noninclusive language](https://18f.gsa.gov/2016/01/12/hacking-inclusion-by-customizing-a-slack-bot/).

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:


_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a diverse, intelligent, and motivated team—and **they**  want to apply to **you**. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) to see what they’re talking about._


Welcome to Season 2 of No, You Go—a weekly podcast all about building satisfying careers and businesses, getting free of toxic bullshit, and figuring out how to live our best feminist lives at work. New episodes start April 17. Here’s a sneak peek of what’s in store.

Hey listeners! We’re taking a tiny break while we get Season 2 rolling—launching April 17!—but we wanted to make sure you heard about the latest addition to the NYG family: [_I Love That_](http://www.noyougoshow.com/newsletter/), our biweekly newsletter of all the stuff we can’t stop thinking about. Every other Friday, you’ll get:

- Personal notes and behind-the-scenes pics

- Links to all the best stuff we read this week

- Our favorite finds—from work pants that feel like pajamas to shows we love _almost_ as much as Riverdale.

- Plus, profiles of all the activists, writers, entrepreneurs, artists, moms, candidates, and more who are inspiring us right now

We’ll also answer your questions, share tips and resources, and basically _get you hyped_. So come on and add a little more _fuck yeah_ to your inbox. [Sign up now](http://www.noyougoshow.com/newsletter).