Strong Feelings

#### That’s it: it’s our season finale—and our last episode of No You Go, ever. Really. But don’t worry, we’re not quitting the podcast game. We’re coming back January 10—with a new name that, well, we’re really feelin’.

In this episode: we ask each other tough questions about our first year as podcasters—like what was great (spending time together! Learning new skills!), what was hard (uhhhhh long answer), and what we’d suggest to anyone looking to start a new jam. The highlights:

-

- How to celebrate a milestone while in the middle of some major burnout

- What to do when you end an interview and realize there’s _no audio_

- Why we wish we’d made friends with other podcasters _a lot_ sooner (and what you can learn from our mistakes)

Plus, we reveal our brand-new name: Strong Feelings—and talk about why we decided to rebrand the show. There’s so much great stuff we want to dig into next season on Strong Feelings, like unfucking your work life, trading #selfcare for true self love, facing our own bullshit so that we can be better feminists and activists, and what the power of female friendship can really do.

**OH! And we want to hear from you, too! If you have strong feelings about something, we set up a hotline for you to share them. Leave us a voicemail at (267) 225–5923.**

> Strength and emotions are often seen as being at odds with each other, and something that I really think we do on the show—and that I want to do on the show—is demonstrate that having feelings and talking about those feelings _is_ strong. That’s a strong thing to do.

> —Sara

Thanks for listening to NYG this year, and we hope you’ll join us next year for Strong Feelings. New episodes start January 10! If you’re already subscribed to the show, no sweat—NYG will simply become Strong Feelings in your podcast app in a few days. We’ll also be moving our site over to [strongfeelings.co](http://www.strongfeelings.co) later this week, and updating all our social, too.

And while you wait for new episodes, definitely [sign up for I Love That, our biweekly newsletter](/newsletter/)—next edition comes this Friday!

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.getharvest.com/)_[Harvest](https://www.getharvest.com/), makers of awesome software to help you track your time, manage your projects, and get paid. Try it free, then  **use code NOYOUGO to get 50% off**  your first paid month._

[

![]()](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

#### What if Tom Hardy drove up to your house to deliver loads of LaCroix and cash? That’s the premise of just one of the stories in _New Erotica for Feminists_, a book of “satirical fantasies of love, lust, and equal pay.” And we were lucky enough to talk to its authors!

We got three out of the four—yes, four—authors on the line to talk about writing the book, how they collaborate with so many different schedules and voices in the mix, what it’s like to build a women-run comedy site on a shoestring, and why all of us could use a group of badass creative partners in our lives.

> We all have a lot of rage at society…and this partnership helps us sort of channel it into a constructive way where it’s at least cathartic and we can feel like we’re helping other people laugh. I mean, that’s one of the things that came out of this book—we would love for it to change the world. It’s probably not going to do that, but at least it entertains people and makes them feel like they are not so alone.

> **—Fiona Taylor** , co-author, _New Erotica for Feminists_

### Links on links on links

[](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/599845/new-erotica-for-feminists-by-caitlin-kunkel-brooke-preston-fiona-taylor-and-carrie-wittmer/9780525540403/)Pick up [_New Erotica for Feminists_](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/599845/new-erotica-for-feminists-by-caitlin-kunkel-brooke-preston-fiona-taylor-and-carrie-wittmer/9780525540403/) pretty much everywhere

Bookmark _[The Belladonna](https://thebelladonnacomedy.com/)_, our guests’ hilarious comedy site

Follow the authors: [Caitlin Kunkel](https://twitter.com/KunkelTron), [Brooke Preston](https://twitter.com/bigu), [Carrie Wittmer](https://twitter.com/carriesnotscary), and [Fiona Taylor](https://twitter.com/fionaleslie)

Read the [_McSweeney’s_ piece that started it all](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/new-erotica-for-feminists)

### Also on the agenda

- We talk about writing with coauthors: what works, what doesn’t, and how to make sure no one loses their shit in the process

- Katel talks about finding her own voice, distinct from her company’s

- Sara wonders if her freewheelin’ podcastin’ lifestyle is bad for business (and whether she cares)

- (Spoiler: her bank account cares)

- We say farewell to our co-host Jenn, who’s sadly not coming back to the show next season (but whose hilarious takes on balancing parenting and professional badassery we miss every day)

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

#### Writing a book is _hard_. Writing a book as a woman in tech is even harder. So what happens when some mansplainer comes along to rain on your well-earned parade? Laura Kalbag tells us about how she found the courage to write, why listening to women reminds her of what’s important, and how she keeps her cool even in the face of jerks.

Laura is a designer and the cofounder of [Ind.ie](https://ind.ie/), a not-for-profit that works on protecting people’s rights in the digital age—and the author of [_Accessibility for Everyone_](https://abookapart.com/products/accessibility-for-everyone). She works tirelessly to champion web accessibility—that is, making websites and apps usable for as many people as possible, including those with disability—and believes the best online experiences are ethical and inclusive.

When she wrote her first book, she embarked on a journey: from doubting whether she could do it, to gracefully handling a high-profile mansplainer, to getting the attention of J.K. Rowling and Roxane Gay. All before publication day.

> I don’t care about impressing little men. That’s not my job. I care about trying to reach the right people with the messages that I care about. I care about trying to make the web more inclusive, trying to make the web more ethical, and if people aren’t bothered about that, then I’m not bothered about them, quite honestly.

> — **Laura Kalbag** , cofounder of [Ind.ie](https://ind.ie/) and author of [_Accessibility for Everyone_](https://abookapart.com/products/accessibility-for-everyone)

We talk about:

- Cofounding Ind.ie, which focuses on building technology to protect people’s privacy and rights online.

- What it’s like to run a company with your partner when you have wildly differing work schedules, and why respect and trust are key.

- The [Ethical Design Manifesto](https://2017.ind.ie/ethical-design/): a guide Laura created to help folks make more sustainable design choices.

- How she navigated the book-writing and publishing process—from self-doubt to self-promotion.

- What it’s like to be on the receiving end of some of the [worst mansplaining we’ve _ever_ seen](https://mashable.com/2017/08/19/jk-rowling-write-a-text-not-book/#S42hwQ_EoaqN)—and how to keep on being awesome, anyway.

**Follow Laura** : [Twitter](https://twitter.com/laurakalbag) | [Ind.ie](https://ind.ie/)

Plus: Sara and Katel share their adventures from [Werk It](https://www.werkitfestival.com/), a women’s podcast festival, where they learned tons and got to spend two days surrounded by amazing women and non-binary folks in excellent outfits.

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) for more._

[](https://www.getharvest.com/)

#### Do you feel like you see yourself and your friendships reflected in most TVs or movies? We sure don’t. Emily Best tells us why we won’t get more diverse representations of women on screen unless we change the way films and shows are funded and distributed—and how she plans to do just that.

Emily is a producer, director, and the founder and CEO of [Seed & Spark](https://www.seedandspark.com), a new crowdfunding and streaming platform that wants to change the way entertainment is made and distributed—so that independent creators can actually _be_ independent. She started Seed & Spark after making her own first film, where she learned just how little Hollywood’s middlemen understood about reaching women.

> I started thinking of all the movies I had ever watched and everything that was available to me and I was like, “where are my friendships? Where are the women I admire?” And they were nowhere to be found. And so, that summer we started toying with the idea of making a movie that would represent female friendships the way that we understood them. And I didn’t know that this was a radical idea.

> — **Emily Best** , founder of [Seed & Spark](https://www.seedandspark.com), on why she made her first film

We talk about:

- Why the film industry doesn’t see women as a viable audience (spoiler: they’re wrong about that).

- Using a wedding registry website to create a crowdfunding campaign for her first film.

- Why Seed & Spark is the only streaming service with a pay-what-you-can model—and a community where creators and fans build real connection.

- Why algorithmic content recommendations—a la Netflix—lead us to an unsatisfying place (and how to change that).

- The importance of [creating a code of conduct](https://medium.com/@emilybest/conduct-yourself-1a26193abfeb) for online communities—\_before\_ you’ve got trolls and Nazis.

- [Fck Yes!](https://www.seedandspark.com/fund/fck-yes-series#updates/20146), a webseries about consent that shows what happens when people actually _talk_ in the bedroom—and how awkward moments can turn into extremely sexy ones.

- What’s next for Emily: A documentary project about the [Equal Rights Amendment](https://www.equalrightsamendment.org/) (which is _still_ not ratified).

**Follow Emily** : [Twitter](https://twitter.com/emilybest?lang=en) | [Medium](https://medium.com/@emilybest)

Plus: Sara and Katel get real about their own failures when it comes to diversifying who’s involved in what, and talk about their fave subject: female friendship (and donuts).

> By doing the thing that was easy, which was bringing in somebody who was already connected to us, who we knew would be a good fit, we weren’t able to think about the benefits of bringing in somebody from a different background.

> —Sara

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.co](https://www.shopify.com/careers)_

#### The midterms are over (though the recounts and runoffs may not be). So we make sense of what happened—and what’s next—with Jenn Taylor-Skinner, the host of our fave new feminist political podcast, The Electorette.

Jenn tells us all about why she’s feeling pretty good about the midterms, how she plans to keep up the momentum into 2020, and why having a bilateral pulmonary embolism—yep, the same thing Serena Williams had—made her take a hard pivot into podcasting in 2017. Now she’s the full-time host of [The Electorette](https://www.electorette.com/)—one of _Teen Vogue’s_ picks for political podcasts, and a show you’ve gotta add to your rotation.

> I just really wanted a space where women could speak without being interrupted. And I had no idea how much I had a hunger for that myself.

> —**Jenn Taylor-Skinner, host, [The Electorette](https://www.electorette.com/)**

**[Follow Jenn](https://twitter.com/jtaylorskinner?lang=en)** | **[Follow The Electorette](https://twitter.com/electorette)**

## On the agenda

- [More than 100 women are headed to Congress](https://www.npr.org/2018/11/06/664951794/a-list-of-firsts-for-women-in-this-years-midterm-elections)—including the [first Native women](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/us/elections/native-americans-congress-haaland-davids.html), the [first Muslim women](https://www.vox.com/2018/11/8/18072610/rashida-tlaib-ilhan-omar-congress-election-muslim-women), and the youngest women ever

- [Florida voted to re-enfranchise](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18052374/florida-amendment-4-felon-voting-rights-results) more than a million people with felony convictions—and this is _really_ freaking important

- Protecting voter rights and making sure no one ever has to wait _six hours_ at the polls should be top priority (Jenn recommends Ari Berman’s book, _[Give Us the Ballot](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/30/books/review/give-us-the-ballot-by-ari-berman.html)_)

- [White women gotta do better](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/09/white-women-vote-republican-why)

- Maxine Waters remains iconic

Plus: we fucking love all your “I Voted” sticker selfies ([here’s Sara’s!](https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp1u_f-gYWi/)), your lil baby voter pics, and…you.

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) for more._

[](https://www.getharvest.com/)

#### How do you decide when to take a huge leap in your career? What happens when your therapist thinks leaving your cushy tech job is a terrible idea—but you do it anyway? Googler-turned-comedian Sarah Cooper joins us to talk about writing satire, redefining success, and making men mad along the way.


Sarah’s latest book is called [_How to Be Successful Without Hurting Men’s Feelings: Non-Threatening Leadership Strategies for Women_](http://publishing.andrewsmcmeel.com/books/detail?sku=9781449476076), and it’s out _today_ (we got a preview copy, and it’s _so_ great). She also runs [The Cooper Review](https://thecooperreview.com/), a wildly popular satirical blog about business culture, and in 2016, her first book, [_100 Tricks to Appear Smart in Meetings_](http://publishing.andrewsmcmeel.com/books/detail?sku=9781449476052), was a bestseller.

We love Sarah because she’s funny as hell, and also incredibly open about what it’s like to trade a career in tech for the sometimes lonely—but also wildly satisfying—world of comedy.

> I have so many outlets to discover myself and who I really am, which is something that I think is just really important for a life, you know? To know you left everything on the table and you told every story that you wanted to tell and you let everyone know who you are—and you didn’t leave this world without telling everybody that.

>

> —[Sarah Cooper](http://sarahcpr.com/), comedian and author of _How to Be Successful Without Hurting Men’s Feelings_

She tells us about:

- Leaving a career at Google to perform standup and write satire all day

- What happens when people think your satire is serious

- How being a Jamaican immigrant taught her to observe people so she could fit in

- The pros and cons of being a “people-pleaser”—and how to let go of that when it stops serving you

- How keeping a “best self journal” helps her stay focused while working alone

#### Also in this episode

Sara and Katel talk about the big career choices they’ve made, and how they’ve built structures and support systems to make those careers work for them. Deets:

- Sara celebrates seven whole years without a traditional “jobby-job,” and thinks back on [Cindy Gallop’s advice](http://www.noyougoshow.com/podcast/s3e8) that working for yourself is the least risky thing you can do

- Katel tells us why she took a pay cut to run A Book Apart—and how she handles the lonely parts of working, well, _alone_

- We both definitely wear fancy blazers at all times

> I remember being so excited to work with a much smaller team and fewer people… I was like, “oh my gosh, this is going to be so great, it’s going to be just a few people, it’s going to be really nimble.” And then I realized that most of the time it was really just going to be me working kind of by myself. And it was a lot harder than I expected because there was essentially no structure unless I made it, and it took me at least a good year to kind of figure out how I was going to work, how I was going to be productive, whether I even liked that way of working enough to keep doing it.

>

> — **Katel** on trading corporate life for running an indie publishing company

Plus:

- Our friends at Harvest wan

It’s a rough year after a rough year after…a rough year. Writer, journalist, and #disabledandcute creator Keah Brown reminds us to celebrate our wins and find joy anyway.

#### Body-positivity sure seems popular right now—but that conversation is often limited to celebrating _slightly_ larger bodies and _slightly_ broader sizing options. Our guest today challenges those ideas—ands helps us understand what _real_ liberation would look like.

[Sonalee Rashatwar](https://www.sonaleer.com/) is a fat, queer, non-binary therapist, community organizer, and donut queen based in Philly. Katel first found out about her as [@thefatsextherapist on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/thefatsextherapist/), where she posts about body image, fat positivity, and delicious food.

> Pleasure is very virtuous. We need food pleasure and sexual pleasure to survive this capitalist nightmare. And it’s okay. I give you permission.

>

> **—Sonalee Rashatwar** , [The Fat Sex Therapist](https://www.instagram.com/thefatsextherapist/)

Sonalee provides counseling to people navigating sexual trauma, body image issues, racial or immigrant identity issues, and South Asian family systems, and she holds workshops on topics like unlearning body image issues.

**Follow Sonalee:**  [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/thefatsextherapist/) | [Twitter](https://twitter.com/sonaleer?lang=en)

We talk about:

- Reclaiming slurs that have been used against you—with a shout out to Jes Baker’s new book, [_Landwhale_](https://www.sealpress.com/titles/jes-baker/landwhale/9781580056816/)

- Being featured on _Breitbart_ for saying that “thinness is a white supremacist beauty ideal” while [speaking at the University of Vermont](https://www.facebook.com/events/examining-race-and-body-image/1887483811564940/)

- Expanding our idea of body image issues “beyond body size, eating disorders, and self esteem” using Megan J. Smith’s [Repeal Hyde Art Project](http://www.repealhydeartproject.org) as a parallel

- Decolonizing sex and pleasure

- Triaging trauma responses during this seemingly endless sexual-assault-filled news cycle

- Getting hyped about “boring self care”

#### Plus:

- Katel looks great in a $7 metallic jumpsuit

- Sara’s _done_ eating $14 airport chicken wraps

- 7–11 sells quinoa?

- It’s okay to skip the boozie slushies (unless that’s your jam—no judgement!)

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. **Visit [shopify.com/careers](https://www.shopify.com/careers) for more.**_

[](https://www.getharvest.com/)

#### Today’s interview might not be safe for work—but Cindy Gallop thinks it should be. She joins us to talk about why we all need to be a lot better at talking about sex, what it’s like to found and scale a sex tech company, and why working for yourself is the best thing you can do.

Cindy is the founder and CEO of Make Love Not Porn, a social sex site that wants to “make it easier to talk about sex for everyone in the world,” and a former advertising executive who’s spent years demanding diversity in companies and on stages. We talk with her about building her business despite an industry that’s way too anxious about funding sex tech, why she doesn’t rely on rational arguments about diversity anymore, and how she intends to build the “sex tech full stack” _and_ bring about world peace. Yes, world peace.

> Fear of what other people will think is the single most paralyzing dynamic in business and in life. You will never own the future if you care what other people think. And so I began doing what I tell other entrepreneurs to do, which is when you have a truly world-changing startup, you have to change the world to fit it, not the other way around… If reality tells me that I cannot grow Make Love Not Porn the way I want to, then I am going to change reality.

>

> —**[Cindy Gallop](https://twitter.com/cindygallop), founder and CEO, Make Love Not Porn**

We talk about:

- Launching Make Love Not Porn in 2009 with her [infamous TED talk](https://blog.ted.com/cindy_gallop_ma/)

- The challenges of funding and scaling [Make Love Not Porn](https://makelovenotporn.tv/)

- Creating and [raising money](https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/21/sex-the-final-frontier-cindy-gallop-raises-2m-from-mysterious-investor-for-social-sex-tech/) for [All The Sky Holdings](https://www.alltheskyholdings.com) to fund sex tech companies and the infrastructure they need to operate

- How to change the “closed loop of white guys talking to white guys about other white guys” that’s at the top of every company

- Why we should talk about our sexual values as much as we talk about values like manners, work ethic, and accountability

**Follow Cindy: [Twitter](https://twitter.com/cindygallop) | [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/cindy.gallop) | [LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/cindygallop/)**

### Also in this episode

- Cleaning out the undie drawer, buying nice lingerie, and what it’s like to have our very personal lives and our professional lives meet

- The endless bra ads on Instagram (and how many of them make you feel like you have a [problem body](https://laurenhallden.com/problembodies/#)

- Saying one more fuck yeah to Christine Blasey Ford, and the incredible effort she and so many survivors of sexual violence have made to share their stories—or just keep surviving—during the past few weeks

## Sponsors

This episode of NYG is brought to you by:

[](https://www.shopify.com/careers)

_[Shopify](https://www.shopify.com/careers), a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. **Visit** _

#### What do you share with the world—and what do you hold back? How do you talk about family secrets or childhood trauma with strangers? And what happens when you bring more of your most personal experiences to your work? This week, we go deep on the power of getting personal—and the choices we have to make along the way.

Before we start, Sara and Katel break some bad news: Jenn’s not here today, and it’s looking like she won’t be able to join us for the rest of the season. We’re sending some big hugs her way, but we have _so_ much to talk about right now, we’re gonna keep on going.


Our guest today is the incredibly kind, talented, and just plain fucking rad writer and editor Nicole Chung. She’s the author of the new memoir, _All You Can Ever Know_—which is on sale T O D A Y ([ugh just buy it already](https://books.catapult.co/products/all-you-can-ever-know-pre-order-by-nicole-chung)). It chronicles her story of transracial adoption, growing up in a white family in small-town Oregon, and finding her birth family while starting to raise her own children. Reading it made us laugh and cry and fall even more in love with Nicole.

In addition to being an author, Nicole is also the editor-in-chief of _[Catapult](https://catapult.co/)_, a literary magazine, and the former managing editor of _[The Toast](http://the-toast.net/)_, everyone’s favorite weird-funny-feminist site. We had _so_ much to talk with her about.

**Follow Nicole** : [Twitter](https://twitter.com/nicole_soojung) | [Insta](https://www.instagram.com/nicolesoojung/?hl=en)

> It was difficult to start sharing such personal stories about my family and about adoption and about racism that I’d experienced. And it’s not necessarily that I needed someone externally to validate them or to say, “this is legitimate, this really happened, this is important,” but I think just a little human kindness and, like, honestly went a very, very long way. The Toast was a fantastic community… Every time I wrote something there—I mean, both the goofy stuff like “If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend” and the more serious pieces on race or adoption or family—the response was overwhelmingly positive and supportive, and it was just really a privilege and a honor to get to edit and publish and write for that community at The Toast. I think it did make me braver.

> **—Nicole Chung, author, _All You Can Ever Know_**

#### Links from the interview

- Nicole’s longread about [writing while grieving](https://longreads.com/2018/03/01/how-to-write-a-memoir-while-grieving/)

- The long history of [Oregon’s racist exclusion laws](https://longreads.com/2018/07/12/oregons-racist-past/)

- Love for Nicole’s editor, [Julie Buntin](https://twitter.com/juliebuntin) at Catapult

- Nicole’s [writing at The Toast](http://the-toast.net/2016/06/09/the-best-of-nicole-chung/), including [If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend](http://the-toast.net/2015/03/24/john-cho-boyfriend/)

- _[All You Can Ever Know](https://books.catapult.co/products/all-you-can-ever-know-pre-order-by-nicole-chung)_, on sale now

#### Also in this episode

Chatting with Nicole got us thinking a lot about what it means to share your story with the world—in your writing, in a talk, or, say…on a podcast. So we dive into some of our own stories, and t