Today I am very excited to introduce you to Agnis Stibe, a 4x TEDx speaker, MIT alum, YouTube creator, globally recognized corporate consultant, and scientific advisor. He is the Artificial Intelligence Program Director and Professor of Transformation at EM Normandie Business School, and the creator of the STIBE Method, which we will of course talk about in today's episode. He is also the Adjunct Professor of Human-City Interaction at the University of Oulu, Paris Lead of Silicon Valley founded Transformative Technology community. 

While at the renowned Massachusetts Institute of Technology, he established research on persuasive cities for sustainable wellbeing. We talk about his research, how social proof can change behavior when it is made more visible, the importance of testing, why you need to try different approaches for any concept, and so much more. Listen in!

• [00:43] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Agnis Stibe, a 4x TEDx speaker, MIT alum, YouTube creator, globally recognized corporate consultant, and scientific advisor.
• [03:19] Agnis shares about himself, his background, and the really fascinating work he does. He is passionate about helping people, teams, organizations, and societies to get where they want to get. 
• [04:17] It is our counterproductive psychology that is oftentimes our roadblock to our own success and happiness. 
• [07:22] Awareness is number one. Once awareness is there, then there has to be a degree of willingness. 
• [09:33] Not everything is worth coming up the “Slope of Enlightenment.” 
• [10:23] We have access to the same curiosity throughout our lives. The question is do we allow ourselves to be using it?
• [12:31] He encourages people to take away unnecessary bias before they start a conversation about AI.
• [14:13] Together we are on a journey and the only obstacles are our human biases.
• [15:32] Agnis shares some success stories. 
• [17:15] After five meetings using their transparent system, everyone was on time. 
• [18:18] Melina’s second book What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You comes out in October 2022.  
• [20:11] Many people don’t want to see themselves in comparison with others on the same screen, but that is their resistance speaking.  
• [22:02] Technology takes away the bias. It is a more reliable perspective that it makes existing patterns more transparent and visible. 
• [23:51] Agnis shares about The Littery and his role with it. 
• [26:32] They amplified the effects of that solution by adding a social layer. Technology also played a role in making things more transparent. 
• [28:28] Humans over our evolution have gained a lot and we have lost some essential awareness of who we are. 
• [30:42] Thanks to technology we get a deeper and clearer perspective of who we are. 
• [33:19] Technology has huge impacts. There is bias towards technology. 
• [34:34] Agnis’ hypothesis: technology is perceived by an average human being the same way an average human being perceives another human being.
• [36:28] Everything we experience with technology is giving us an opportunity to look at ourselves - the more technology the closer and deeper we see ourselves.  
• [38:24] The STIBE Method has ten tools split among three major stages.
• [39:55] Most of the time the problem with failed solutions is that there is not enough awareness of the problem. 
• [41:33] The final and crucial phase is to make assurance for long-term success.
• [45:33] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [45:45] The impact of social proof can change when it is made more visible and there is a record.
• [50:04] Thank you again to everyone who has subscribed, rated, and left those five-star reviews of the podcast. I appreciate you and please keep them coming.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger
• How to Change, by Katy Milkman
• What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• The Speed of Trust, by Stephen M.R. Covey
• Influence, by Robert Cialdini

Connect with Agnis: 

• Agnis on YouTube
• Agnis on LinkedIn
• Agnis on Twitter

Top Recommended Next Episode: The Littery - Interview with CEO Michael Manniche (episode 75)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Dunning-Kruger Effect (episode 198)
• A More Beautiful Question with Warren Berger (episode 200)
• Social Proof (episode 87)
• Worxogo: The AI-Powered Nudge Coach with Anant Sood (episode 208)
• AI, Blockchain, Machine Learning, & Behavioral Economics with Manuj Aggarwal (episode 192)
• How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman (episode 151)
• How to Get (and Stay) Motivated (episode 67)
• Fundamental Attribution Error (episode 192)
• Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals (episode 123)
• Optimism Bias (episode 34)
• Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (episode 157)
• The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey (episode 148)
• The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)
• Give Feedback: The "G" in NUDGES (episode 40)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Agnis’ Website
• Agnis’ Research

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Anant Sood, one of the co-founders of the nudge coach Worxogo. What the heck is a nudge coach you ask? It is, by my own definition, an awesome amalgamation of behavioral science and AI to help people be better managers, improve employee performance, and so much more. 

Anant is going to share a lot more about it in the conversation, but just know that when I heard about this I absolutely had to profile it in my new book, What Your Employees Need and Can't Tell You, which is currently on presale to come out October 11, 2022, and to follow that up with this episode. You are going to love this, trust me!

• [00:41] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Anant Sood, one of the co-founders of the nudge coach Worxogo.
• [03:54] Anant shares about himself and the really fascinating work he does. For the last 22 years he has largely worked in the area of transformation and organization.
• [06:05] Before starting Worxogo, one common thing they heard from their customers was that the first 3-6 months after a change things were excellent, but after 6-9 months the change started to taper off. After a chance meeting with Baba Shiv they realized it was not a technology or process problem, but a behavioral problem. 
• [07:37] Customers wanted to change, but the change didn’t stick and it would just go back to the way it was.  
• [08:28] Melina’s new book, What Your Employees Need and Can't Tell You, is currently on presale to come out October 11, 2022. (Hooray!) 
• [10:37] Worxogo uses AI to customize to each individual in a unique way. 
• [11:35] There are reasons why we don’t follow through on things even when we have the intent and ability to improve. 
• [14:04] Some people are motivated by competing against themselves and others are motivated by not letting the team down and others are more motivated by beating someone else on the team. Those are all proper ways to motivate people and if you don’t know how someone is going to react you can try one but it might not hit them right. What could be very difficult for a manager is quickly discovered by Worxogo.
• [15:12] Who we perceive ourselves to be is not always what we exhibit as a behavior. 
• [17:38] The engine assumes that nobody is motivated by the same thing every day. 
• [20:13] The system allows each person to be themselves and figure out the right way to help you get, reach, achieve, and exceed your goals even if you work differently from others on your team. 
• [22:17] As a manager, it gives you the situational advantage for every individual on your team. 
• [25:53] If managers look at the lead indicators and the activities that their team is doing and you build the habit to talk to your team about those, it builds you as a manager as well. 
• [27:40] Often organizations have a system, but it just isn’t being used and the nudge coach is very helpful to make sure the tools start getting used. 
• [29:38] By nature, if you ask more you will get more. 
• [30:53] Any team where you have a set process, you have some basic CRM in place, and you are looking to increase productivity a nudge coach will deliver the outcome for you. 
• [31:34] Case studies and their newsletter can be found on their website. 
• [32:09] Behavioral science can make an impact and this is the future of work. The ways of working are completely changing and the current tools are not enough. 
• [34:23] Melina shares her closing thoughts. Do you want to hire Melina to do work with your company? Email [email protected]
• [34:40] A study Melina found in her research said that over 80 percent of people currently in management roles don't have the talent to be a great manager. It also said that 1 in 10 is a natural-born manager, two more can be taught, and the other seven out of 10 are not suited for the job, and using past methods can never be.
• [37:27] Everyone deserves a great manager. Worxogo can help make that a reality.
• [39:09] Thank you again to everyone who has subscribed, rated, and left those five-star reviews of the podcast. I appreciate you and please keep them coming.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Nudge, by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein
• What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• How to Change, by Katy Milkman
• The Behavior Business, by Richard Chataway
• You Have More Influence Than You Think, by Vanessa Bohns

Connect with Anant: 

• Worxogo Website
• Anant on LinkedIn
• Anant on Twitter

Top Recommended Next Episode: Introduction to Nudges and Choice Architecture  (episode 35)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Anchoring (episode 11)
• Habits (episode 21)
• Motivation and Incentives at Work with Kurt Nelson (episode 187)
• Optimism Bias (episode 34)
• Loss Aversion (episode 9)
• Survivorship Bias (episode 110)
• AI, Blockchain, Machine Learning, & Behavioral Economics with Manuj Aggarwal (episode 192)
• Using Behavioral Science to Tackle Addiction (and the Lessons for any Business), Interview with Richard Chataway (episode 134)
• Combining Artificial Intelligence and Behavioral Economics, with Sam Albert of Behaviorally (episode 166)
• You Have More Influence Than You Think with Vanessa Bohns (episode 197)
• When Machine Learning Meets Neuroscience, with Ingrid Nieuwenhuis of Alpha.One (episode 170)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Greta Harper, a Maker’s Mark diplomat. Everyone that has already heard last week’s episode with Sarah Wilson, knows that this week’s episode is resharing a podcast that was recorded while I was a speaker on the live podcast stage at Greenbook’s IIEX North America conference in Austin a couple of weeks ago. It was such a great event! 

While at IIEX North America I had the honor of interviewing Greta about the amazing shifts that Maker’s Mark made during the pandemic to support restaurants and their workers when they were under no obligation to do so. Their focus on support and advocacy turned into some amazing programs that made a really big impact (including some work with myself and the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab). What can your business learn from their approach? Listen in to find out…

• [00:42] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Greta Harper, a Maker’s Mark diplomat. 
• [01:52] While at IIEX North America I had the honor of interviewing Greta Harper at Maker’s Mark about the amazing shifts that their company made during the pandemic to support restaurants and their workers when they were under no obligation to do so.
• [04:50] Greta shares about herself, her background, and what she does at Maker’s Mark. 
• [06:07] In 2014, she went to Kentucky for the first time, she got to meet distillers, and absolutely fell in love with the business. 
• [07:19] Learning wasn’t always easy in the supplier world and she vowed that if she ever got to a place of “power” she would make learning easier for everyone that came behind her. 
• [08:06] Bars and restaurants are that traditional third space in society. This space isn’t work or home. It is that other space where you get away from those things to connect with something different than yourself. 
• [10:36] The first time she went to Texas A&M was in January of 2020 and she was very excited to start doing lots of research. 
• [11:54] Humans make on average 35,000 decisions every day and most of those are done on a subconscious level. 
• [13:20] Greta works in the advocacy sector of Beam Suntory, which is the parent company of Maker’s Mark. 
• [15:50] When our habits are shifted we only have so much cognitive bandwidth that we are able to give up every single day. 
• [17:49] Greta and her team were able to focus on other people because they didn’t have to focus on survival. One way their company showed support was to buy food from a struggling restaurant and feed their employees. 
• [20:22] Consumers were changing their buying habits because they couldn’t go to bars and restaurants. The Maker’s Mark team started partnering with bars and restaurants by doing virtual cocktail classes. 
• [22:13] They knew that on-premise was always a focus and they wanted to be there for them when they needed support (not just when it was convenient for their company). 
• [23:37] Maker’s Mark was leaning in at a time when they were truly not getting anything out of it. 
• [26:07] Helping, advocating for the trade, and educating the trade have always been at the heart of everything that Greta wants to do. This is one reason why it was so exciting to bring in Melina and Jeff from the Human Behavior Lab to do a series of trainings for the restaurant teams – and it has been amazing to see their results in the months that followed.
• [29:01] The pandemic opened up so many different avenues for them to think differently. They learned so many things. 
• [31:15] As humans we feel compelled to give back when people give to us. 
• [33:30] Greta shares what is on the horizon. They are all about sustainability at Maker’s Mark. 
• [35:51] There is a huge difference between age and maturation. It all affects the end product. Taste and flavor are at the heart of everything they do. 
• [37:13] Thinking about how you can be doing the right thing in a way that leverages reciprocity. 
• [38:09] Melina shares her closing thoughts. Do you want to hire Melina to do work with your company? Email [email protected]
• [40:01] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Marketing to Mindstates, by Will Leach
• What Your Customer Wants and Can't Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• Good Habits, Bad Habits, by Wendy Wood
• The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss

Connect with Greta: 

• Greta on LinkedIn
• Maker’s Mark on Instagram
• Maker’s Mark on Twitter

Top Recommended Next Episode: Nudging for Good at Walmart with Sarah Wilson (episode 206)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Anthropology, Market Research & Behavioral Economics with Priscilla McKinney (episode 196)
• Marketing to Mindstates: A Discussion With Author, Will Leach (episode 88)
• Checking in with Dr. Marco Palma (episode 202)
• Announcing! Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics from the Texas A&M Human Behavior Laboratory (episode 115)
• Brainy Health Benefits of Nature, with Dr. Jay Maddock (episode 203)
• What is Behavioral Baking? (episode 155)
• Habits (episode 21)
• Good Habits, Bad Habits: An Interview with Wendy Wood (episode 127)
• Reciprocity (episode 23)
• How to Create Remarkable Experiences with Dan Gingiss (episode 185)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Maker’s Mark Website

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Sarah Wilson, Director of Human Experience Research at Walmart. This is a fun episode because we are sharing a live podcast that was recorded while I was a speaker on the live podcast stage at Greenbook’s IIEX North America Conference in Austin, TX a couple of weeks ago. 

At IIEX North America I had the honor of interviewing Walmart’s Sarah Wilson about some of the work they are doing in behavioral science including a project we have been working on together around sustainability. Listen in to learn about Walmart’s important sustainability goals, how asking the wrong question can make things worse, and how they are nudging for good. 

• [00:44] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Sarah Wilson, Director of Human Experience Research at Walmart. 
• [02:02] At IIEX North America I had the honor of interviewing Sarah Wilson from Walmart about some of the work they are doing in behavioral science.
• [04:46] Sarah shares about herself and the work that she does at Walmart. 
• [05:44] Walmart has made a commitment to becoming a regenerative company. They believe in making a healthy planet that has prosperity for everyone. 
• [06:21] Small changes can make a really big impact when you have a large footprint like Walmart. 
• [07:10] It takes a thousand years for a plastic bag to degrade. 14 plastic shopping bags is equivalent to a gallon of gas. 
• [08:35] Research has shown that 95% of the decisions that people make are done on a subconscious level and that includes buying decisions. 
• [10:05] Being able to send the right message at the right time to get someone to change their behavior can actually be a difficult thing if you are working on the wrong problem. 
• [12:42] Sometimes the easy answer is not always the right answer. 
• [15:21] They started with the problem of reducing plastic but also didn’t want to impact the customer experience. 
• [17:34] We like to think that we are logical and rational people making logical choices in everything we do, but humans aren’t really that way. 
• [18:18] Often we know that we should do something but we don’t always change the habit. 
• [20:09] With bag usage we have to find those nugdable spots to help shift the behavior. 
• [21:27] They started by making sure everyone was on the same page with the problem to solve. 
• [23:30] It is really easy to find the right answer to the wrong question. 
• [25:40] Walmart brought in Melina for a workshop to help with their plastic reduction project. They started with the idea of just letting people explore. They focused on the experience journey of the customer and associate separately because their experience journeys with the bags are very different. 
• [28:29] Sarah shares her favorite insights that came up from the workshop. 
• [31:18] Really small problems can add up, so they looked at how they could solve the small problems to turn those into big gains. 
• [32:58] It is really hard to test and experiment in certain environments. 
• [35:46] When you are trying to do too much, it ends up being too much and you don’t get good results. 
• [36:41] Look at doing small ongoing experiments instead of too much at one time. 
• [38:20] Having thoughtfulness about the problem upfront is important. One benefit is being able to be shape the project around what you can test. 
• [40:37] Customer experience matters. We can add in small nudges that still maintain a good customer experience. 
• [42:40] Melina shares her closing thoughts. Do you want to hire Melina to do work with your company like at Walmart? Email [email protected]
• [43:35] Finding new opportunities to incorporate behavioral science nudges into the habits of the associates and customers while maintaining great customer service in the process of reducing plastic is a long-term endeavor.
• [44:52] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• The Voltage Effect, by John List
• Nudge, by Richard Thaler & Cass Sunstein
• Engaged, by Amy Bucher
• Designing for Behavior Change, by Steve Wendell
• A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger

Connect with Sarah:

• Sarah on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Framing (episode 16)
• NUDGES & Choice Architecture (episode 35)
• Checking in with Dr. Marco Palma (episode 202)
• Brainy Health Benefits of Nature, with Dr. Jay Maddock (episode 203)
• Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab (episode 33)
• Using Biosensors to Unpack Human Behavior, with iMotions’ Jessica Wilson (episode 182)
• Habits (episode 21)
• Sludge (episode 179)
• The Voltage Effect with John List (episode 190)
• A More Beautiful Question with Warren Berger (episode 200)
• Social Proof (episode 87)
• IKEA Effect (episode 112)
• The Littery - Interview with CEO Michael Manniche (episode 75)
• How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63)
• Bikeshedding (episode 99)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Texas A&M Certificate Program

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Emily Cadiz, founder, and CEO of Finnegan the Dragon. What is Finnegan the Dragon, you ask? Of course, Emily will tell you all about that during our conversation, but here is the short, teaser version. Finnegan the Dragon is a new company I've had the honor of being an advisor for. This is an organization that is all about improving brain development and language learning for kids using inclusive music. 

When I was given the opportunity to be part of the advisory team for this company, I knew it was something I had to do. There are so many amazing things on the horizon for Finnegan the Dragon and I am so excited to finally be able to share what Emily and her team are up to so you can learn all about it! Emily will be sharing about all the great work they are doing, exciting milestones coming up (including your opportunity to be a beta tester for the upcoming game launch), and how to get their free Ebook that came out this week. Listen in! 

• [00:44] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Emily Cadiz, founder, and CEO of Finnegan the Dragon.
• [03:40] Emily shares about herself and how she got connected to Melina. 
• [05:12] She has always been a service provider, teacher, musician, and public servant before starting her own business. 
• [06:48] She suffered a traumatic brain injury in the classroom, which turned her world upside down. 
• [07:37] During her recovery she found herself going back to music. She started studying how her own brain was recovering through sound and music. 
• [09:01] In her research she stumbled upon inclusive music which is how we use music to strengthen the brain multiple times throughout our lives to either cope, acquire, or realign ourselves with language. 
• [10:29] Going to traditional therapy never helped Emily because it was a reminder to her that she was disabled. Medical interventions can sometimes serve as a consistent reminder that you’re different and that your access point to the world is not the same as everyone else. This was a spark for creating something new with Finnegan the Dragon. 
• [11:51] If we make this work part of the entire curriculum from a very young age everyone can benefit so you don’t have to make anyone feel different. 
• [12:31] Developmentally speaking, stages happen at different rates for different children. Finnegan the Dragon wants to make things accessible for everyone. 
• [14:23] The process of making her brain tired and then letting it repair was the process that music had — it helped her to “sweat” her brain. 
• [16:35] Melina shares her experience taking college music classes during high school. 
• [19:43] There are 1.5 billion people that speak tonal-based languages. 
• [20:56] We can see in a lot of countries where tonal-based languages are dominant or even with people that are studying tonal-based languages, their brains are cognitively able to do things that other brains aren’t. 
• [21:36] The standards for developmental milestones have gone down. We have 33-34% of kindergarteners needing special education interventions coming into the 2022-2023 school year. 
• [23:53] If your child is spending more than 30 minutes a day in front of a screen per day with passive engagement their chances of having ADHD or a mood disorder are increased by 50%. 
• [25:37] Passive screen time is the root cause of a lot of this. 
• [26:54] Passive screen time is silent participation with the screen. Using your finger doesn’t fully activate your brain for learning either. 
• [28:02] There needs to be sound, noise, singing, motion, and movement going on for little ones to really understand how their world works. 
• [30:23] We know it is unreasonable to expect zero screen time (or even less than 30 minutes) so Finnegan the Dragon is an optimized game and accompanying classroom curriculum. 
• [33:10] Little kids have trouble with r’s at that age, we shouldn’t correct them. We can often encourage inappropriate sounds that are very hard to correct down the road. 
• [35:55] Tone is equally important at this age to all of your academic subjects. Tone and language develop at the same rate. If we ignore tone we are not strengthening the brain as much as we should or need to be. 
• [38:20] Music (at home and in schools) are so important for development in all areas of life.   
• [39:41] Meet Finnegan and learn his story in their free ebook, Finnegan the Singing Dragon. He uses music to help him overcome some things he is facing. Get your free ebook. 
• [41:38] It is so important to help our generation of little learners be able to have a fighting chance and help all the children be on a level playing field. Will you support them and Finnegan?
• [42:35] The Finnegan beta game will be coming out in the fall. Sign up for the newsletter to be first to know when it’s available.
• [44:24] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [47:00] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Finnegan the Singing Dragon, by Emily Cadiz
• Unleash Your Primal Brain, by Tim Ash
• Beautiful Questions in the Classroom, by Warren Berger
• Evolutionary Ideas, by Sam Tatam
• What Your Customer Wants and Can't Tell You, by Melina Palmer

Connect with Emily: 

• Finnegan the Dragon Website
• Finnegan the Dragon on Instagram
• Emily on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: Did You Hear That? - On The Sense of Hearing (episode 27)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Unleash Your Primal Brain, An Interview with Tim Ash (episode 124)
• Priming (episode 18)
• A More Beautiful Question with Warren Berger (episode 200)
• Evolutionary Ideas with Sam Tatam, Ogilvy’s Global Head of Behavioural Science (episode 204)
• The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach (episode 145)
• Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis (episode 144)
• Temptation Bundling (episode 136)
• Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode (episode 123)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Finnegan the Dragon Newsletter

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am so excited to introduce you to Sam Tatam to talk about his fantastic new book Evolutionary Ideas. I got my first peek at this book so many months ago and I have been eagerly awaiting the moment when I can finally share it with everyone. I’m delighted that that day is finally here! 

Sam Tatam is the Global Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy. He has a passion for understanding human behavior, and his experience comes from a mix of organizational/industrial psychology and advertising strategy. Sam has led behavior change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioral economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world's most influential brands and organizations. You’re in for a treat! I truly loved Evolutionary Ideas and think you will too!

• [00:42] Today I am so excited to introduce you to Sam Tatam to talk about his fantastic new book Evolutionary Ideas.
• [03:27] Sam shares his background and how he got into behavioral science. He is an organizational psychologist by training. 
• [05:47] Virtual doesn’t have to be worse. Nudgestock looked at what they had available and reframed the idea of what this event could be (without being anchored to what they had done before). 
• [06:38] He shares their internal conversations about how they approached Nudgestock differently to make that transition (and have amazing results!) in 2020.
• [07:45] They decided if they were going to do it digitally they wanted to do it big (transitioning from the “Woodstock” of behavioral science to the “Live Aid”). 
• [09:27] They “followed the sun” and presented through LinkedIn live (with over 128,000 attendees!). 
• [11:32] Look at challenges that come your way like opportunities. 
• [12:21] Sam’s new book is called Evolutionary Ideas. 
• [13:21] The beginnings of his book actually started in 2014 when he did a keynote in Sidney.   
• [15:03] Six years later a video about biomimicry continued to spark his interest. 
• [17:13] We are not distinct. 
• [19:10] It helps us to be more open and see psychological solutions in a slightly different way. 
• [20:49] Language is so immensely powerful. It helps us to see things in the world and categorically differentiates between concepts.  
• [21:53] Once you have a language for something, you see it more frequently and easily, and you can apply it more systematically.  
• [23:27] Context and individual differences still play a role. 
• [26:10] We don’t always need to be revolutionary. It is not true that big problems need big solutions. (Innovation Myth #1 in the book!)
• [26:58] Small ideas can have big impacts. We have a series of shared problems that we face. We have also adapted to have shared solutions. 
• [29:31] Innovation is the revolution of the contradiction. 
• [31:05] If you understand what connects us (across species and other developments) then you can borrow from each other and learn together. 
• [33:36] There is a rich and vast resource of inspiration in the world around us. 
• [35:12] The brain makes decisions the same way regardless. 
• [36:58] If you can reframe in more human terms, solutions are all around us to help us solve our problems. You are probably not as unique in facing your challenges as you think you are. 
• [38:38] Questions can be really helpful for us to have a bit more of a checklist approach to creativity. 
• [41:50] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [42:37] Take comfort in knowing that any problem you have has already been solved before.
• [45:09] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Evolutionary Ideas, by Sam Tatam
• Alchemy, by Rory Sutherland
• Speed of Trust, by Stephen M.R. Covey
• A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger
• Ripple, by Jez Groom & April Vellacott

Connect with Sam: 

• Evolutionary Ideas
• Sam on Twitter
• Sam on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: Unleash Your Primal Brain, with Tim Ash (episode 124)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• A More Beautiful Question with Warren Berger (episode 200)
• Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, with Jon Levy (episode 150)
• Framing (episode 16)
• Anchoring (episode 11)
• Priming (episode 18)
• Bikeshedding (episode 99)
• The BIG Effects of Small Behavior Changes in Business, with Jez Groom and April Vellacott (episode 131)
• Behavioural Science Club, with Co-Founder Louise Ward (episode 118)
• The Power of Fast-Choice & Implicit Testing with CloudArmy’s Keith Ewart (episode 183)
• Herding (episode 19)
• Reciprocity (episode 23)
• The Speed and Economics of Trust, with Stephen M.R. Covey (episode 148)
• Change Management (episode 7)
• Loss Aversion (episode 9)
• Scarcity (episode 14)
• Relativity (episode 12)
• Time Discounting – I’ll Start Monday Effect (episode 51) 

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Nudgestock

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

While I was recently in College Station visiting the Human Behavior Lab, I had the joy of meeting Dr. Maddock when he came by to chat with us for a bit. I hadn’t met him before, but in learning about his work and research it was clear that we had to do an interview. Thankfully, I had my equipment with me and he had some spare time to talk about some of the incredibly cool stuff he and his team are doing. 

Dr. Maddock is a professor in the department of environmental and occupational health at the school of public health at Texas A&M University and is also the co-director of the Center for Health and Nature. He serves on the Brazos County Board of Health. Not to mention he is editor in chief of the Journal of Healthy Eating and Active Living. He has authored more than 130 scientific articles which have been cited more than 5000 times, plus his research has been featured on/in The Today Show, BBC, CNN, Eating Well, Prevention and Good Housekeeping and he has given lectures around the world. This isn’t even all of his bio, but I wanted to let you know a little bit about this awesomeness before you hear about the cool stuff he is doing. Listen in to hear all about the connection between nature and our health. It is really amazing!

• [01:16] Dr. Maddock is a professor in the department of environmental and occupational health at the School of Public Health at Texas A&M University and is also the co-director of the Center for Health and Nature.
• [03:47] Jay shares about his background and what he does.
• [05:16] They are really looking at how natural environments change health. Spending time in nature really changes your health.
• [05:59] They are now trying to understand what is the perfect dose of nature and how they can use some of the models to get more people into nature.
• [07:46] Virtual reality lets us break the senses up. They can do a study experimenting with only one sense. 
• [08:40] They are trying to figure out the essential pieces of nature that we need for healthy benefits.
• [09:47] People like different types of nature. 
• [10:49] The more that we feel we are in the environment, the more effect it has on our physiology. 
• [11:29] There are so many questions we can answer in virtual reality that would be difficult to do in person.  
• [12:48] Making environments immersive and interesting is important for people. Being in real nature is always best for us, but since that isn’t always possible, it will be great to have other options. 
• [14:49] How we can integrate nature into our surrounding and environment is important. 
• [15:55] They have been looking at the effect of travel and nature. So many times when we go on vacation we want to go to some beautiful natural spot, but we also have an effect on the environment. 
• [17:34] The ability to virtually tour places that are untouched would be really cool. 
• [18:11] The biggest thing with health and nature is it doesn’t work without conservation. 
• [18:45] One of the other things they have been working on is looking at some of the behavioral theories that we use and how we adopt these to increase people’s time in nature. 
• [21:27] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [23:53] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• The Behaviour Business, by Richard Chataway
• Never Go With Your Gut, by Gleb Tsipursky
• What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• Evolutionary Ideas, by Sam Tatam
• How to Change, by Katy Milkman

Connect with Jay: 

• Texas A&M University School of Public Health
• Jay on Twitter
• Jay on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: Checking in with Dr. Marco Palma (episode 202)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab (episode 33)
• Announcing! Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics from the Texas A&M Human Behavior Laboratory (episode 115)
• Using Biosensors to Unpack Human Behavior, with iMotions’ Jessica Wilson (episode 182)
• The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)
• Vision Does Not Happen In The Eyes, But In The Brain - On The Sense of Sight (episode 24)
• Why Burnt Popcorn Has Derailed So Many Meetings - On The Sense Of Smell (episode 25)
• Why You Actually Taste With Your Nose - On The Sense Of Taste (episode 26)
• Did You Hear That? - On The Sense of Hearing (episode 27)
• Why Picking Something Up Makes People More Likely To Buy - On The Sense Of Touch (episode 28)
• NUDGES & Choice Architecture (episode 35)
• Priming (episode 18)
• You Have More Influence Than You Think with Vanessa Bohns (episode 197)
• Using Behavioral Science to Tackle Addiction (and the Lessons for any Business), Interview with Richard Chataway (episode 134)
• How to Avoid Disasters When Returning to the Office, with Dr. Gleb Tsipursky (episode 175)
• Adjusting Your Mindset: Tips To Overcome Imposter Syndrome And More (episode 13)
• AI, Blockchain, Machine Learning, & Behavioral Economics with Manuj Aggarwal (episode 192)
• The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (episode 32)
• How to Set, Achieve & Exceed Brainy Goals (episode 70)
• How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Texas A&M Certificate Program

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today’s episode is an update on all the exciting stuff going on at the Human Behavior Laboratory at Texas A&M University. Last week I was able to spend two full days in the Human Behavior Lab (one of my favorite places in the world if I’m honest) and today’s episode is featuring the director of the lab, Dr. Marco Palma. 

This is actually his third time being on The Brainy Business podcast. (He might be the first one to do that…?) Since the first time he was on the show (way back in episode 33 when I visited the lab for the first time) we have done so much together, including creating the certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics. I am honored to teach so many amazing courses for that program which has led to relationships and conversations with wonderful people around the world. (Sneak peek! Some of those projects are going to be featured in the coming weeks, and I am very excited to showcase more of my own work in the podcast.) The lab has done tons of experiments since I was there in January 2019 for that first interview, and about 40 of them have been published in the last few years. Don’t worry, we won’t try to cover all of them today. Instead, Dr. Palma and I selected a choice few that really resonate and can be applicable for listeners like you.

• [00:52] I spent two full days last week in the Human Behavior Lab at Texas A&M University. 
• [01:33] Dr. Palma has been on the show before (this is actually his third time – I think he might be the first to do that). 
• [05:29] There have been many changes since the last time I featured the lab on the show: in terms of the infrastructure, they are hiring new people, and students have graduated and started their own labs. 
• [06:43] ] One of the fascinating parts about studying human behavior is that we are all, to a certain degree, experts. 
• [08:26] Marco’s tips for choosing between a PhD, masters or a certificate program like the one we have at Texas A&M. 
• [10:04] It is an exciting time to be at Texas A&M because of all of the different dimensions of human behavior that are being studied from different angles. 
• [12:05] The lab has done tons of experiments since I (Melina) was there in January of 2019 and about 40 of them have been published.
• [13:05] Dr. Palma shares about their charitable donations experiment.  
• [14:20] In the paper they concentrate on matching 1-to-1 versus giving seed money with charitable donations. The matching scheme is supposed to motivate people to give because then their money can go further. 
• [17:04] The general idea is that matching funds are always a good idea because they encourage others to donate, but as Dr. Palma shows, there could be a negative behavioral message being shared underneath the surface that actually decreases donations in this type of approach. 
• [19:10] Being able to communicate that a percentage of your money goes directly to the charity goes a long way and is a way to differentiate yourself. You want to be able to stand out and be a high-quality charity. 
• [20:10] Next Dr. Palma shares about their calorie labeling experiment. In this paper, they are looking at the policies requiring large restaurant chains to display the calorie content of food on food menus. The intention of the policy was for people to realize the number of calories in food and act accordingly in trying to reduce calorie consumption.
• [22:57] Some studies have shown this works, some show that people don’t change their consumption, and others show that they eat more calories when the numbers are shown on the menu. How can all three things be true at one time? Dr. Palma shares about their research and why relativity matters.
• [24:32] You’re not going to change how you eat in response to the calories if you expect something to have a lot of calories because you didn’t really learn anything new.  
• [25:43] It’s dependent on the menu you see, your expectations, and realization of reality. In this context you can have scenarios where you increase calorie consumption, you make no changes in calorie consumption, and in which you actually have a reduction which is the intention of the law.
• [28:32] In another paper they were looking at decision-making under time pressure. 
• [29:49] Once you have a set (number of choices) we are very good at optimizing the thing that we like the most. 
• [31:04] However, generating a choice set is very difficult for us to do (businesses should focus on this!). If someone else constructs the choice set for us and gives us a choice among 3-5 options, we are actually pretty good at choosing something that we would probably like. We tend to choose things we value a lot. 
• [32:15] The less cost we have to invest in making a decision will lead to an increase in satisfaction. Not only is the business going to gain, but the customer is also going to be happier. 
• [33:00] Making decisions when you are hungry or emotional tends to change the way that we act. 
• [34:58] In another paper looks at how hunger might change our cognitive capacity. 
• [36:22] They found there was no difference in the cognitive performance of normal-weight individuals whether they had the option to order food or not. Obese individuals had a lower performance relative to the normal weight individuals so they were more affected by being hungry – unless they were able to pre-order their snack. Why? 
• [37:51] The obese individuals anticipated the food and the anticipation was enough to increase their cognitive capacity. (It essentially eliminated the negative impacts of feeling hungry.)
• [39:37] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [41:44] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Influence is Your Superpower, by Zoe Chance
• You Have More Influence Than You Think, by Vanessa Bohns
• What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• The Voltage Effect, by John List
• The Elements of Choice, by Eric Johnson

Connect with Human Behavior Lab: 

• Human Behavior Lab Website
• HBL on Twitter
• HBL on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: Announcing! Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics from the Texas A&M Human Behavior Laboratory (episode 115)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab (episode 33)
• Using Biosensors to Unpack Human Behavior, with iMotions’ Jessica Wilson (episode 182)
• The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)
• Influence Is Your Superpower with Yale’s Dr. Zoe Chance (episode 189)
• You Have More Influence Than You Think with Vanessa Bohns (episode 197)
• Anchoring (episode 11)
• Relativity (episode 12)
• Herding (episode 19)
• Framing (episode 16)
• NUDGES & Choice Architecture (episode 35)
• Time Pressure (episode 74)
• The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (episode 32)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Texas A&M Certificate Program
• Human Behavior Lab Research

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Katelyn Bourgoin. As you will hear during our conversation, I met Katelyn via Twitter where she has been kind enough to tag me many times when people ask for recommendations for people who are using psychology in marketing or for business as well as for podcast recommendations, books, or just for someone to follow. Katelyn also has a phenomenal newsletter that is so engaging — I just love how well she understands her audience. We will be talking about that a lot more during the conversation today.  

Katelyn uses reciprocity so well by shining the light on others and it comes back in a really great way. Before any non-marketers tune out and say this episode is not for you, know that creating engaging content that people want to respond to matters for everyone whatever your industry, whoever you are communicating with, and whatever you want to achieve. People like to work with those they like. Framing your messages with the recipient in mind is never a bad idea. Katelyn is a marketer and market researcher so that is the lens of her statements throughout the episode, but I challenge you to consider all the ways this can be useful to you in your life and business. For anyone with a newsletter or striving to have one, and who has ever been mystified by Twitter and especially Twitter threads, get ready for some awesome tips and free resources. 

• [00:41] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Katelyn Bourgoin. 
• [02:13] Katelyn is a marketer and market researcher so that is the lens of her statements throughout the episode, but the tips are for everyone!
• [04:24] Katelyn shares about herself and how she found herself in the behavioral sciences. 
• [05:50] She ended up working with a bunch of companies and seeing the same problem over and over: they just didn’t know who their best customers were or why they bought. That led her to launch the company she has today called Customer Camp.
• [08:18] When she decided that she wanted to help people overcome that problem she discovered an innovation framework known as Jobs to Be Done. 
• [09:56] Jobs to Be Done is really important for understanding the context of the customer situation and what would cause them to seek out and choose a new solution. 
• [11:44] Their company exists to help people build a better understanding of their buyers through educating them on why people buy, training, and products.
• [12:39] It was thinking beyond the research and what they do to what would be engaging for potential customers. 
• [14:54] Having a functionally better product is important but there are all these other factors that you also need to consider when you think about the job holistically. 
• [16:00] You have to not just look at the functionality of a product but you have to consider the social and emotional aspects too. 
• [18:45] In having these conversations about the buyers' journey, pulling out the details, and mapping them, that is what leads to being able to design better marketing. 
• [20:14] Talk to buyers who have bought to try and understand their buying journey — that’s a step a lot of marketers are missing. 
• [23:00] The trigger technique is a good solution for pulling out the bits that you can make most actionable and share with your team to back up your strategy. (Freebie in the links below!)
• [25:47] When they designed the newsletter, they thought about what was the job of the newsletter. They wanted to create a newsletter to make people feel like it was food for their brains.
• [26:58] It has to be something really quick to consume and it has to be something where you walk away feeling like you have ideas for applying them to your own work.
• [29:55] People need to feel like they are getting something back to open and read a newsletter.  It can be inspiration, validation, or something to forward. 
• [32:02] They realized it was better to have consistency with their newsletter even in the subject line. 
• [34:44] Testing and seeing what works is very helpful.  
• [37:54] Choose the social media platform where you think you can be consistent. 
• [39:21] Make a big effort to follow the right people. She follows people who inspire her and she can learn from. 
• [40:57] Leverage the opportunity to highlight work that other people are doing.
• [42:54] Melina shares about one of Katelyn’s Twitter threads.
• [44:32] When it comes to writing a thread, the first tweet is the most important one. 
• [47:34] Understanding your customers when it comes to figuring out demand is everything. Clarity of what works doesn’t come from sitting around in a boardroom and thinking about it. It comes from actually engaging with customers.
• [49:05] If you want to market better, really be obsessed about understanding customers. 
• [50:28] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [52:31] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• The Innovator's Dilemma, by Clayton Christensen
• Atomic Habits, by James Clear
• The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss
• The Jobs to Be Down Playbook, by Jim Kalbach
• Marketing to Mindstates, by Will Leach

Connect with Katelyn: 

• Katelyn’s Website
• Katelyn on Twitter
• Katelyn on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• The Truth About Pricing  (episode 5)
• Functional Fixedness (episode 194)
• NUDGES & Choice Architecture (episode 35)
• Habits (episode 21)
• Scarcity (episode 14)
• Framing (episode 16)
• How to Create Remarkable Experiences with Dan Gingiss (episode 185)
• The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey (episode 148)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Know Your Customers’ “Jobs to Be Done”
• Customer Camp Newsletter
• Trigger Technique: Turn Buyer Stories into Smart Marketing Ideas

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Warren Berger. If you know me at all, you probably know what a big deal this is for me. Warren wrote my very favorite book, A More Beautiful Question. I reference it all the time on the show when I am being interviewed, when I am teaching… I even referenced it in my own book. I love questions and a huge part of that infatuation came from Warren’s book. 

When the milestone of the 200th episode of The Brainy Business was on the horizon I decided to go out on a limb and asked Warren if he would be my guest for this special episode. He kindly agreed and here we are! Warren has a history as a journalist for the New York Times before writing or co-authoring ten books including A More Beautiful Question, The Book of Beautiful Questions, Beautiful Questions in the Classroom, and more. Today we are talking about questions (of course!) as well as design thinking and so much other goodness. You definitely don’t want to miss this one! Thank you so much for 200 amazing episodes together! What do you want to hear more of in the next 200? 

• [00:45] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Warren Berger. 
• [01:44] Warren has a history as a journalist for The New York Times before writing or co-authoring ten books including A More Beautiful Question, The Book of Beautiful Questions, Beautiful Questions in the Classroom, and more.
• [03:35] Warren shares who he is and his background. He is a long-time journalist.
• [05:54] This idea of asking questions, trying to get to the right questions, and figuring out how to ask a good question is a really important concept that has been underappreciated and not talked about enough. 
• [07:20] Questioning is basic and comes naturally to us…but at the same time, it is very complex. There are so many ways you can get better at questioning and understand it better. 
• [09:16] Warren looks for whatever has been published and he also talks to people and interviews them about how they use questions. He has interviewed a hostage negotiator, FB agent, therapists, coaches, and more. 
• [11:31] It is very common to see books have a chapter on questioning, but it doesn’t go that deep into it. There needs to be more. Warren advocates for Questionology departments in schools (sounds good to Melina!)
• [12:46] The more you learn about something, the more you realize there is to learn and that is certainly true with questioning. (Intrigued by this idea? Listen to episode 198 on the Dunning-Kruger effect to learn more about this!)
• [14:28] Warren has three books on questioning, A More Beautiful Question, The Book of Beautiful Questions, and Beautiful Questions in the Classroom.
• [15:27] There is this underappreciated tool called questioning. You know how to do it in a way, but there is so much more to it that you can learn. Questioning leads to innovations, changes, and breakthroughs. 
• [16:25] Everybody comes at questioning from a different angle. 
• [19:02] His third book on questioning was adapted for education and teachers. 
• [20:58] You have to model the behavior of being a curious questioner that doesn’t have all the answers. Be a person that is wondering, growing, and learning.
• [23:27] You have to have a balance of confidence and humility to be a questioner.
• [24:39] The model for great leaders is to have that ability to learn consistently and be learning in front of the people you are leading. 
• [25:36] The smartest people are aware of how much they don’t know. Being aware of your ignorance is an indication of how smart you are. (Dunning-Kruger effect again!)
• [27:28] We have to realize there is a lot we don’t know and keep learning with our teams. 
• [29:48] Questioning involves getting comfortable with uncertainty. 
• [31:17] If you use why, what if, and how questions together they tend to go in a cycle that pushes you forward. 
• [33:27] Questioning has to be actionable and it has to be moving forward. 
• [35:07] The problem is that people want to rush to practical “How” questions. It is in our nature, but it is not enough.
• [36:53] You could give yourself a deadline when working through the questions or just trust your gut that you will know when you have spent enough time on that stage of questioning. Melina’s tip – ask way more questions than you think you need to.
• [37:39] Sometimes the purpose of a question is to help you get to the next question.
• [38:48] The questioning muscle is a different muscle than your idea-generating muscle. When you use the questioning muscle you start to see things differently. 
• [41:11] Warren says design thinking is how a designer would go about approaching a problem, what can we learn from the way designers approach problems, and how we can apply that.
• [43:27] We can all use this mindset and process that designers use as we try to take on problems. 
• [44:18] If you want to create your own beautiful question and take ownership of it, consider framing it as: “How might I…?” Warren shares his beautiful question(!)
• [46:21] Forget the mission statement. What is your company’s mission question?
• [48:33] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [50:28] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!)

Thank you for 200 episodes! What do you want to hear in the next 200? Share it with me on social media (links below).

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More from The Brainy Business:

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Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger
• The Book of Beautiful Questions, by Warren Berger
• Beautiful Questions in the Classroom, by Warren Berger
• Advertising Today, by Warren Berger
• Glimmer: How Design Thinking Can Transform Your World, by Warren Berger

Connect with Warren: 

• Warren’s Website
• Warren on Twitter
• Warren on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: The Dunning-Kruger Effect (episode 198)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)
• Framing (episode 16)
• Questions or Answers (episode 4)
• Bikeshedding (episode 99)
• Priming (episode 18)
• Influence Is Your Superpower with Yale’s Dr. Zoe Chance (episode 189)
• How Businesses Can Design for Behavior Change, with Dr. Amy Bucher (episode 164)
• 150. Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited (episode 150)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Warren Berger TED Talk: Nurturing the Ability to Question
• Right Question Institute
• The Questionologist, Psychology Today
• Warren Berger Articles, Harvard Business Review

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia