Instead of our usual episode, we're excited to share a podcast we think you'll love: Say More with Tulaine Montgomery. In her podcast, Tulaine speaks with people who are deeply committed to making the world a better place, while also taking care of themselves and supporting their communities. In this episode, she puts DB|BD host Ellen McGirt on the other side of the mic! 

Ellen and Tulaine talked about many things that matter to Design Observer listeners, including: curiosity as a key to progress, the role big D design can play in creating a better world and how to stay hopeful in a moment that is anything but. Plus, Ellen shares some anecdotes about her career journey never before heard on the DB|BD airwaves!

If you enjoy this episode, be sure to subscribe to Say More and listen to more episodes!

Follow Tulaine on Instagram and check out New Profit

Design Observer’s profile on Mr. P

Tulaine’s conversation with Angela Glover Blackwell

Trevor Noah in conversation with Dr. Ruha Benjamin

Before you go! Help us make Design Observer even better. We have a short user survey in the field, and we would love your take on what you like, what we could be doing better, and how we can continue to be your trusted friend helping you navigate uncertainty. Plus, you’ll be entered to win one of our very cool Redesigner tees! Please take a few minutes to fill it out by 8/31 using the following link: https://wkf.ms/46yx7UA  

In a time where it's hard to feel hopeful, a new study has left leaders who value DEI aflutter with tentative optimism. It’s called The Risk of Retreat, conducted by Catalyst and the NYU Meltzer Center of Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging, it compiled data from surveys of 2,500 employees from across the U.S. on their thoughts about workplaces backtracking from their DEI policies. The study found that retreating from DEI poses significantly MORE business risk than keeping those policies in place. 

In this episode of DB|BD, Catalyst’s Head of Knowledge Transformation and Solution Development Alixandra Pollack sits down with host Ellen McGirt to discuss the four categories of risk companies face when retreating from DEI and the study’s recommendations to leaders for a non-reactive approach to maintaining inclusion and trust.

Next up, Ellen chats with a design leader who is really living and breathing one of Alix's recommendations "walk the talk and talk the walk."  Doug Powell is a designer, educator, facilitator and host of the podcast This is a Prototype. He pioneered human-design centered practices at big companies like IBM and Expedia. In this conversation, Doug shares with Ellen his experience of learning to be a leader on the job, getting a big company on board with design and why design thinking needs a rebrand. 

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Read The Risk of Retreat in full. 

Doug’s website and tune in to his podcast This is a Prototype

In this episode of DB|BD, you’re in for a two for one– or in this case, a double double.

First up, host Ellen McGirt sits down with Michael C. Bush, the CEO of Great Place to Work. Every year, Great Place to Work sends out a survey to 23 million people across 170 countries to ask them how valued and respected they feel at work. Companies that score well on the survey are bestowed with the honor of being- you guessed it- a certified Great Place to Work.

Michael talks with Ellen about why Great Place to Work companies are also some of the most profitable, how expectations for workplace culture vary around the world and why consistency is an essential leadership trait. He also shares his thoughts on whether leadership is based in nature or nurture and if DEI was even fully baked to begin with.

Later in the episode, Ellen chats with WNBA legend Candace Parker. Candace is a three time WNBA champion and two time Olympic Gold medalist. She is still the only W player to win Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season. She’s also the author of the new book The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passions. On top of all that, she is a broadcaster, mom, wife and advocate.

In this live conversation, recorded on stage at Great Place to Work’s For All Summit, Candace talks about how she got the nickname “can-do”, finding her footing in the W while also nursing her daughter, embracing negativity and why her leadership advice includes signing up for a team sport.

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

More on the Great Place to Work Trust Index

Candace Parker’s The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passion

Dr. Richard Cook’s lecture “How Complex Systems Fail”

James Baldwin & William F. Buckley’s 1965 debate

Ethan Marcotte is a web designer who may be best known for coining the term “responsive design” in 2010 – which turned out to be a prescient manifesto for the quest to design beautiful, accessible, and effective digital experiences everywhere. Ethan’s also a compassionate web designer and a prolific writer. His most recent book is “You Deserve A Tech Union,” a treatise on the rise of the labor movement in tech.

Ethan also recently spent nearly a year working for 18F, a governmental digital consulting office that helped federal agencies use technology to better serve the public. Ethan resigned in February, just one month before the office was shut down.

In this episode, Ethan describes the difficult choice to leave 18F – a story that  includes practical career advice on what do to do when a job contradicts your personal values. He also discusses the role of compassionate design in this moment, and what its future might be. And Ethan reflects on the state of “responsive design” 15 years later, why redesigning big systems requires patience and how AI is changing the value of our labor. 

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Ethan’s website.

Ethan’s essays “Moving on from 18F” and “Hallucinating”

Sylvia Harris: AIGA 2014 Medalist

Jessica Helfand’s beautiful tribute to Sylvia.

Debbie Millman is a shapeshifting creative who does a little bit of just about everything. She is a writer, designer, educator, artist, brand consultant and host of the podcast Design Matters- which celebrates its 20th anniversary this year. Last month, Debbie also published a beautiful new book: Love Letter to a Garden. It details her journey into gardening through her signature illustrations, creative vignettes and recipes from her wife, writer Roxane Gay. As of May 1st, she and Roxane are also the proud co-owners of The Rumpus. 

In this episode, Debbie tells host Ellen McGirt about her unexpected journey into gardening and the cold email that led to Love Letter. She also shares her process of using Midjourney to create many of the book’s illustrations. Debbie reflects on what 20 years of Design Matters has taught her about the podcasting industry, creativity and herself. She also shares her thoughts on whether brands still have the capacity to be human and how technology will factor in the future of design.

And stay tuned to hear Debbie read a moving passage from Love Letter to a Garden!

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

To learn more about Debbie, visit her website and follow her on Instagram.

Love Letter to a Garden

Debbie Millman on The Tim Ferriss Show, September 2020

Sana Javeri Kadri is the founder of Diaspora Co., a single origin spice company that is revolutionizing the 500 year old $5 billion spice industry. Their mission is to “put money, equity and power into the best regenerative spice farms across South Asia, and bring wildly delicious, hella potent flavors into your home cooking.” In just 8 years in business, Diaspora Co. has put money, equity and power into 140 farms into countries across India and Sri Lanka.

In this episode, Sana tells host Ellen McGirt the story of how taking a trip to India to study turmeric led to her starting a global import-export business at 23 years old. She also shares why Diaspora Co pays the farmers they work with at least 4x the commodity price and and how Diaspora’s packaging is shaking up the spice aisle. And she gets brutally honest about bootstrapping a business and navigating tariffs.  

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Learn more about Diaspora Co. and follow Sana on Instagram.

Ryan Coogler’s 2022 BAFTA David Lean lecture

Follow The Design of Business | The Business of Design on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. 

Jon M. Chu is a director, producer and screenwriter. Along with both parts of the Wicked movie adaptation, he directed Crazy Rich Asians, Step Up 2 and In the Heights. In a special live episode of DB|BD, Jon joins Ellen McGirt onstage at the Great Place to Work For All Summit, which took place in Las Vegas on April 10th-12th, 2025. 

Jon details how he went from  a child of immigrants with a Sharper Image film mixer making bar mitzvah videos to being discovered by Spielberg during his senior year at USC. He also talks about going from resisting making films about Asian identity to directing an all Asian cast in one of the most successful romantic comedies of all time. Jon also shares lessons he’s learned from turning down Netflix, collaborating on set and owning the room once you’re in the room. 

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Jon’s memoir Viewfinder: A Memoir of Seeing and Being Seen 

Tony Bynum is bilingual. He can speak the language of both business and design, a skill that makes him a unique leader in our industry. 

Tony is the director of the Institute for Design’s new ID Academy, where he is also a professor of practice. Previously, he founded the Northwestern Mutual Design Thinking Center of Excellence in Milwaukee, WI where he was Principal Senior Director of Experience Design. 

In this episode, Tony shares lessons from his unorthodox career path that are still applicable in today’s tumultuous job market. He also shares advice for leaders and new hires on how to use design thinking as a tool for resistance. And Tony and Ellen attempt to give a name to the current era of design- hint: it’s all about designing WITH rather than designing FOR.

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Tony’s interview in The Reel Black List.

Design As Humanity episode featuring Susan Fabry

Follow The Design of Business | The Business of Design on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. 

Tara Nathan is the EVP of Digital Solutions for Development at Mastercard and the founder of Mastercard’s Community Pass- a digital infrastructure that connects remote agricultural communities to governments, NGOs and the private sector. Community Pass currently serves 6 million farmers across India and East Africa and has an ambitious plan to reach 30 million by 2027.

In this episode, Tara tells host Ellen McGirt about creating an ecosystem that makes it possible for smallholder farmers to participate in the digital economy- a so-called “Mastercard for pigs”. She also shares her belief in leveraging both the private and public sectors to solve complex social problems and what she thinks people get wrong about development work.

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Learn more about Community Pass and the MADE Alliance.

Cocoa na Chocolate’s joyful music video and more on how the song came to be.

Welcome to the 12th season of DB|BD. This season we are Designing for the Unknown. 

Michael Eliason of Larch Lab is an architect, researcher, writer and urbanist based in Seattle He’s a self-described activist for dense, livable, affordable, and sustainable cities and the author of Building for People: Designing Livable, Affordable, Low-Carbon Communities. 

In the aftermath of the fires in Southern California, Michael helps host Ellen McGirt understand how we can build or rebuild communities to anticipate the significant climate changes imperiling our world and make us healthier, happier, more connected people.  

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Michael’s book Building for People: Designing Livable, Affordable, Low-Carbon Communities

Larch Lab

Jane Jacobs: Neighborhoods in Action

Henry Graber on Tokyo’s approach to fire resistance