We’re back with part 2 of our peek behind the curtain of the 2025 Aspen Business & Society Summit. And this time we are asking the big question. In a period of global turmoil, does leadership need a redesign? It’s clear that today’s leaders- whether of a business, a government or a family- require an unprecedented level of courage, vision and integrity. But what exactly does that type of leadership look and feel like? And can you develop the skills needed to be an audacious leader, or do you have to be born with them?

These are big, hairy questions. And in this episode of DB|BD, our guests take a stab at them.

You will hear excerpts from conversations host Ellen McGirt had with nine different leaders onsite at the Summit. All nine leaders, whose expertise spans across business, law, design, and government, share invaluable wisdom on what it takes to build trust with customers, employees and shareholders in a world where trust itself is scarce. 

2025 Edelman Trust Barometer

Leaders featured in this episode:

• Jim Andrew, Executive Vice President, Chief Sustainability Officer, PepsiCo
• Heather Higginbottom, Managing Director, Head of Research, Policy & Insights, Corporate Responsibility, JPMorgan Chase
• Trisch Smith, Global Chief Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Officer, Edelman
• Justina Nixon-Saintil: Vice President, Corporate Social Responsibility & Chief Impact Officer, IBM
• Alphonso David, President & CEO, Global Black Economic Forum 
• Rachel Godsil: Co-founder, Perception Institute, Distinguished Professor of Law and Chancellor’s Scholar at Rutgers Law School
• CécileBeliot: CEO, Bel Groupe
• SandaOjiambo: Assistant Secretary-General, CEO and Executive DirectorUN Global Compact
• Tim Mohin: Partner & Director, BCG
• WitoldHenisz: Vice Dean & Faculty Director, Impact, Value and Sustainable Business Initiative, The Wharton School

Every summer, the Aspen Institute’s Business and Society Program’s annual summit gathers 200+ leaders from the worlds of business, science, government, design, and the arts at the Institute's Colorado campus. They convene for three days of panels, spontaneous conversations and knowledge sharing- all driven by a shared belief that business can shape and contribute to the health of our world. 

The 2025 Summit took place in July. And of course, DB|BD host Ellen McGirt was there. This year she got to do something special. Over the course of a 9-5, Ellen interviewed nine different leaders on mic from the worlds of law, technology, academia, food and the UN. And we are bringing excerpts from all nine of those conversations straight to the DB|BD airwaves. Consider it inside access to this invite-only summit. 

Over the next two episodes of DB|BD you will hear from powerhouse leaders on what’s keeping them up at night and how they’re dealing with it. 

Today, we’re covering that first part. Times are tough. A hostile administration, unstable geopolitics and shifting technologies are just a few of the changes disrupting the way we live and do business. In this episode, leaders from different countries and industries explain just how their work has been impacted.

Leaders featured in this episode:

• Justina Nixon-Saintil: Vice President, Corporate Social Responsibility, and Chief Impact Officer, IBM
• JennyYang: Former EEOC Commissioner, Partner, Outten & Golden LLP
• Rachel Godsil: Co-founder, Perception Institute, Distinguished Professor of Law and Chancellor’s Scholar at Rutgers Law School
• CécileBeliot: CEO, Bel Groupe
• SandaOjiambo: Assistant Secretary-General, CEO and Executive DirectorUN Global Compact
• Tim Mohin: Partner & Director, BCG
• WitoldHenisz: Vice Dean & Faculty Director, Impact, Value and Sustainable Business Initiative, The Wharton School

Before you go! Fill out our survey! We have a short user survey in the field, and we would love your take on what you like, what we could be doing better, and how we can continue to be your trusted friend helping you navigate uncertainty. Plus, you’ll be entered to win one of our very cool Redesigner tees! Please take a few minutes to fill it out by 8/31 using the following link: https://wkf.ms/46yx7UA  

Instead of our usual episode, we're excited to share a podcast we think you'll love: Say More with Tulaine Montgomery. In her podcast, Tulaine speaks with people who are deeply committed to making the world a better place, while also taking care of themselves and supporting their communities. In this episode, she puts DB|BD host Ellen McGirt on the other side of the mic! 

Ellen and Tulaine talked about many things that matter to Design Observer listeners, including: curiosity as a key to progress, the role big D design can play in creating a better world and how to stay hopeful in a moment that is anything but. Plus, Ellen shares some anecdotes about her career journey never before heard on the DB|BD airwaves!

If you enjoy this episode, be sure to subscribe to Say More and listen to more episodes!

Follow Tulaine on Instagram and check out New Profit

Design Observer’s profile on Mr. P

Tulaine’s conversation with Angela Glover Blackwell

Trevor Noah in conversation with Dr. Ruha Benjamin

Before you go! Help us make Design Observer even better. We have a short user survey in the field, and we would love your take on what you like, what we could be doing better, and how we can continue to be your trusted friend helping you navigate uncertainty. Plus, you’ll be entered to win one of our very cool Redesigner tees! Please take a few minutes to fill it out by 8/31 using the following link: https://wkf.ms/46yx7UA  

In a time where it's hard to feel hopeful, a new study has left leaders who value DEI aflutter with tentative optimism. It’s called The Risk of Retreat, conducted by Catalyst and the NYU Meltzer Center of Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging, it compiled data from surveys of 2,500 employees from across the U.S. on their thoughts about workplaces backtracking from their DEI policies. The study found that retreating from DEI poses significantly MORE business risk than keeping those policies in place. 

In this episode of DB|BD, Catalyst’s Head of Knowledge Transformation and Solution Development Alixandra Pollack sits down with host Ellen McGirt to discuss the four categories of risk companies face when retreating from DEI and the study’s recommendations to leaders for a non-reactive approach to maintaining inclusion and trust.

Next up, Ellen chats with a design leader who is really living and breathing one of Alix's recommendations "walk the talk and talk the walk."  Doug Powell is a designer, educator, facilitator and host of the podcast This is a Prototype. He pioneered human-design centered practices at big companies like IBM and Expedia. In this conversation, Doug shares with Ellen his experience of learning to be a leader on the job, getting a big company on board with design and why design thinking needs a rebrand. 

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Read The Risk of Retreat in full. 

Doug’s website and tune in to his podcast This is a Prototype

In this episode of DB|BD, you’re in for a two for one– or in this case, a double double.

First up, host Ellen McGirt sits down with Michael C. Bush, the CEO of Great Place to Work. Every year, Great Place to Work sends out a survey to 23 million people across 170 countries to ask them how valued and respected they feel at work. Companies that score well on the survey are bestowed with the honor of being- you guessed it- a certified Great Place to Work.

Michael talks with Ellen about why Great Place to Work companies are also some of the most profitable, how expectations for workplace culture vary around the world and why consistency is an essential leadership trait. He also shares his thoughts on whether leadership is based in nature or nurture and if DEI was even fully baked to begin with.

Later in the episode, Ellen chats with WNBA legend Candace Parker. Candace is a three time WNBA champion and two time Olympic Gold medalist. She is still the only W player to win Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season. She’s also the author of the new book The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passions. On top of all that, she is a broadcaster, mom, wife and advocate.

In this live conversation, recorded on stage at Great Place to Work’s For All Summit, Candace talks about how she got the nickname “can-do”, finding her footing in the W while also nursing her daughter, embracing negativity and why her leadership advice includes signing up for a team sport.

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

More on the Great Place to Work Trust Index

Candace Parker’s The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passion

Dr. Richard Cook’s lecture “How Complex Systems Fail”

James Baldwin & William F. Buckley’s 1965 debate

Ethan Marcotte is a web designer who may be best known for coining the term “responsive design” in 2010 – which turned out to be a prescient manifesto for the quest to design beautiful, accessible, and effective digital experiences everywhere. Ethan’s also a compassionate web designer and a prolific writer. His most recent book is “You Deserve A Tech Union,” a treatise on the rise of the labor movement in tech.

Ethan also recently spent nearly a year working for 18F, a governmental digital consulting office that helped federal agencies use technology to better serve the public. Ethan resigned in February, just one month before the office was shut down.

In this episode, Ethan describes the difficult choice to leave 18F – a story that  includes practical career advice on what do to do when a job contradicts your personal values. He also discusses the role of compassionate design in this moment, and what its future might be. And Ethan reflects on the state of “responsive design” 15 years later, why redesigning big systems requires patience and how AI is changing the value of our labor. 

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Ethan’s website.

Ethan’s essays “Moving on from 18F” and “Hallucinating”

Sylvia Harris: AIGA 2014 Medalist

Jessica Helfand’s beautiful tribute to Sylvia.

Debbie Millman is a shapeshifting creative who does a little bit of just about everything. She is a writer, designer, educator, artist, brand consultant and host of the podcast Design Matters- which celebrates its 20th anniversary this year. Last month, Debbie also published a beautiful new book: Love Letter to a Garden. It details her journey into gardening through her signature illustrations, creative vignettes and recipes from her wife, writer Roxane Gay. As of May 1st, she and Roxane are also the proud co-owners of The Rumpus. 

In this episode, Debbie tells host Ellen McGirt about her unexpected journey into gardening and the cold email that led to Love Letter. She also shares her process of using Midjourney to create many of the book’s illustrations. Debbie reflects on what 20 years of Design Matters has taught her about the podcasting industry, creativity and herself. She also shares her thoughts on whether brands still have the capacity to be human and how technology will factor in the future of design.

And stay tuned to hear Debbie read a moving passage from Love Letter to a Garden!

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

To learn more about Debbie, visit her website and follow her on Instagram.

Love Letter to a Garden

Debbie Millman on The Tim Ferriss Show, September 2020

Sana Javeri Kadri is the founder of Diaspora Co., a single origin spice company that is revolutionizing the 500 year old $5 billion spice industry. Their mission is to “put money, equity and power into the best regenerative spice farms across South Asia, and bring wildly delicious, hella potent flavors into your home cooking.” In just 8 years in business, Diaspora Co. has put money, equity and power into 140 farms into countries across India and Sri Lanka.

In this episode, Sana tells host Ellen McGirt the story of how taking a trip to India to study turmeric led to her starting a global import-export business at 23 years old. She also shares why Diaspora Co pays the farmers they work with at least 4x the commodity price and and how Diaspora’s packaging is shaking up the spice aisle. And she gets brutally honest about bootstrapping a business and navigating tariffs.  

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Learn more about Diaspora Co. and follow Sana on Instagram.

Ryan Coogler’s 2022 BAFTA David Lean lecture

Follow The Design of Business | The Business of Design on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. 

Jon M. Chu is a director, producer and screenwriter. Along with both parts of the Wicked movie adaptation, he directed Crazy Rich Asians, Step Up 2 and In the Heights. In a special live episode of DB|BD, Jon joins Ellen McGirt onstage at the Great Place to Work For All Summit, which took place in Las Vegas on April 10th-12th, 2025. 

Jon details how he went from  a child of immigrants with a Sharper Image film mixer making bar mitzvah videos to being discovered by Spielberg during his senior year at USC. He also talks about going from resisting making films about Asian identity to directing an all Asian cast in one of the most successful romantic comedies of all time. Jon also shares lessons he’s learned from turning down Netflix, collaborating on set and owning the room once you’re in the room. 

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Jon’s memoir Viewfinder: A Memoir of Seeing and Being Seen 

Tony Bynum is bilingual. He can speak the language of both business and design, a skill that makes him a unique leader in our industry. 

Tony is the director of the Institute for Design’s new ID Academy, where he is also a professor of practice. Previously, he founded the Northwestern Mutual Design Thinking Center of Excellence in Milwaukee, WI where he was Principal Senior Director of Experience Design. 

In this episode, Tony shares lessons from his unorthodox career path that are still applicable in today’s tumultuous job market. He also shares advice for leaders and new hires on how to use design thinking as a tool for resistance. And Tony and Ellen attempt to give a name to the current era of design- hint: it’s all about designing WITH rather than designing FOR.

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

Visit our site for more on this episode and to view a transcript.

Tony’s interview in The Reel Black List.

Design As Humanity episode featuring Susan Fabry

Follow The Design of Business | The Business of Design on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.